ALL-Ways software

[cmcofer]

Hi all:

I'm a newbie here. Sure looks like the place to be if you're into horseracing (which I enjoy). I live in West Des Moines, Iowa, and we have a super-nice track, Prairie Meadows (PRM) here. http://www.prairiemeadows.com/

I hear (from BRIS) that ALL-Ways ver 9.0 (a major upgrade) is "on the way" and will soon be ready for users to d/l from the BRIS website.

Anyone here using ALL-Ways currently? I think the current ver no. is 8.3 (or thereabouts).

I believe it's available on TSN, with a different name than ALL-Ways.

Would welcome any comments (good/bad) that any ALL-Ways users might want to make. I used it a couple years ago and was impressed with its power (if not its picks). Not knocking it, just stating the case.

However, it will have been thru several upgrades since I used it and I'm hearing that this one (ver 9.0) is "the ultimate!" (gg)

Granted, the datafiles from BRIS are pricey at $14.00/card ($7.00/card if a member of BRIS's GOLD Club, i.e. min. of $100/mo worth of down-loads).

Anyhoo, just wondering if any here are ALL-Ways users (now or in the past) and what's your assessment of the program?

I'm considering having another go at it with the new ver 9.0 ALL-Ways when it becomes available. The software comes in two flavors... a freebie version from BRIS and a "Pro" version ($700-$800, or thereabouts) direct from the software producer (Frandsen Co.). I'm only interested in the Freebie at this time.

If I do give Ver 9.0 a shot, I'll re-join the GOLD Club so's to get the datafiles at 1/2 price.

Good to be here. Looking forward to 'learning' from all you Pro's.

[hurrikane]

I used AllWays for a while last year. It was nice..and a lot of options...all I could get out of it was chalk. I know there are people doing well with it and more power to them. The biggest draw back is the price of the datafiles. I play a lot of different tracks and most every day..so...spending 3-500 a month on cards was rediculous.

[MikeH]

I used Allways for 3 1/2 years, and stopped using it about 3 months ago. I now use HTRF, which cost me $100, but I saved that much in data files in a month and a half.

I signed up for TRN early in 2000, and, since then have been mostly an "at-home" player. Since I live in California, with very limited full-card simulcasting, I was playing mostly Southern California, with a little of the Fairgrounds, Aqueduct and Belmont mixed in. Allways fits these circuits. With TRN, I play many of the "smaller" circuits, and have written off California and New York. The factors that I use to handicap have changed radically since playing from home.

Many of the statistics in Allways do not seem to fit the smaller tracks. "Days since last raced" , Workouts, and "Furlong Days"are good examples. And, no matter what the circuit, since so many people are using these computer models, most of the selections are serious underlays. In fact, much of the "late money" in Southern California is bet of the top Allways horse. So you lose your edge very quickly.

Allways has excellent reports, but similar reports are available from other software programs at a fraction of the cost. And, unless you buy the $900 version, it is very difficult to extract data for analysis. The data analysis reports in the "free" version do not cut it. My personal opinion is that, if you are looking to a program to manage databases (which is what Allways is all about), you are much, much, much better off using Ken Massa's HTR with unlimited files for about $140 a month. There is simply NO comparison.

One thing that bothered me about Allways was that, while I was spending $150 - $200 + per month buying their product, they did not seem interested in my business unless I wanted to purchase the $900 copy...

Last year, on one of PA's former boards (RIP), I posted an extensive introduction to the use of Allways. If anyone is interested, I can repost that article.

[cmcofer]

Thanks, MikeH (and all) for your responses to my query about the ALL-Ways handicapping program. Many of your comments and observations paralled my own experience with ALL-Ways a few years ago. Pretty good, but "chalky." Hard to make any money, in view of the cost of the download files.

I've not yet decided whether I'll give it a shot when Ver. 9.0 (supposedly coming soon!) is released. Since the software is Free from Bris (or TSN), I may install it... try it for a few days and see if it holds any promise.

In the meantime, I went over to the HTR site and did some background reading on that program (which several of you mentioned favorably). So, at least I've got an alternative to look at, eh... based on the suggestions from members of this board. Thanks, folks.

Cliff Cofer, West Des Moines, Iowa
"Our Tax System's Broken. Let's Fix It!
Visit: http://www.geocities.com/cmcofer/

[JimG]

Originally posted by MikeH
Last year, on one of PA's former boards (RIP), I posted an extensive introduction to the use of Allways. If anyone is interested, I can repost that article.





Mike:

Since you offered, I would be interested in your extensive thoughts on the All-Ways software given your years of experience with it.


Thanks.


Jim

[4thandlong]

I was an All-Ways user (I bought the Pro Edition) but gave it up (I don't bet anymore). Granted no program is good enough to blindly bet its top pick, but its picks are next to useless. I was hoping that its betting line would be useful but it isn't. As has been mentioned, its reports are good but there are many cheaper ways to get the same info and since you end up having to make your own line anyway it's hard to justify the expense.

The only good thing I found was its ability to pick longshots. If you have the bankroll and patience to wait out the dryspells that accompany playing longshots it could be of use. I spent a ton of money building up my database so they would be more predictable but it wasn't and you would have to be a big bettor IMO to be able to recover the expenses, especially if you bet daily and bet more than one track.

The "customer service" sucks. I spent $900 on the damn program and thousands more on the datafiles and they still send my newletters to the wrong address (after repeated emails tellling them) and I wasn't happy with the response time in replying to my emails (when I got a reply, that is).

I did have a little early success with it, which prompted me to but the Pro version. But the extras that came with it didn't help my bottom line, though it sped up my handicaaping slightly.

IMO, if you like the standard edition, stick with it and save your money - don't bother with the Pro. Hey, maybe I'm an idiot, that's why it didn't work for me. But for the price, I'm sure there are better alternatives out there.

[mhrussell]

Cliff-

When I first joined BRIS a couple of years ago, I looked into using All Ways myself. I echo some of the thoughts already posted: 1) The program seemed to use standard, classical handicapping factors that the public tends to bet; therefore I did not see many potential value plays coming from this. Also,2) the $14/card cost really put me off.

I like and still use the BRIS pps' in my own handicapping software but cannot otherwise recommend their software packages. Both All Ways and their Neural network package data files are way too expensive for what they produce... chalk.

I stumbled upon Handicapping Magic last November and it completely changed and greatly improved my game.
I would recommend you check out this fine book and the companion software package that is available from ITS. See Tedwin's post on his paper study of the effectiveness of the Handicapping Magician software at Calder in the Handicapping Magic thread. It will find some real "bombs" for you; especially for turf races.

Good luck,

[cmcofer]

Thanks, Mark, for your comments re ALL-Ways. Your experience with it is similar to mine... not bad at picking chalk. I was under the impression that ver 2.0 would be released in June, but it looks like it'll be late this year, or early next year.

Have you ever tried MultiCaps 2000? It's available from BRIS (free) and the datafile is $5.00 per card.

I'll have a look at the program you mentioned.

Cliff Cofer - West Des Moines, Iowa
Fairtax Facts! = http://www.geocities.com/cmcofer/

[cmcofer]

Whoops, I meant to say that ver 9.0 was due out in June, but is likely not gonna be ready until late this year or early next year. Sorry 'bout that... I said ver 2.0 (instead of 9.0) in my prior post.

[MikeH]

This is from last year...[comments in brackets were added/updated in August, 2001.]

I N T R O D U C T I O N to A L L W A Y S
The following is an introduction to AllWays for those that might be interested. I've been using AllWays for 3 years; it's a quality product and, overall, I'm happy with what it does for me.

First of all, it is not for the faint-of-heart. You need to have a basic understanding of concepts such as ESP, Quirin speed points, use of pace numbers, and Scott PCR and ability times, as well as the use of impact values ("IV"). However, some of this (especially the IV's), you can learn as you go.

And, like anything handicapping-related, it requires a commitment of time and money. It will probably take a weekend player about six months to become proficient. Financially speaking, you should
plan on being a BRIS "Gold member", which means that you guarantee that you will spend at least $100 a month. For this, you get the AllWays Files at 1/2 price, or $7 per card. Otherwise, it costs $14 per card. $100 per month equal 14 cards, and, to really utilize AllWays correctly, you should probably be downloading at
least 14 cards per month anyhow.

How does it work?:
You begin by downloading a racecard from BRIS. AllWays then processes this file into it's own database, calculating and storing 71 different numbers such as: last speed number, Quirin speed
points, horses ESP running style, Sartin velocity numbers, etc..

To handicap, you print out one or more of 10 reports that AllWays provides. What's really nice is that you can use the BRIS PP Generator program to print a Form using the same data file that feeds AllWays. This way, when you look at the reports, you can quickly see where the data is coming from.

The report that I use is called the Paceline report, and shows each horse's speed, pace and class figures, in Post Position order. It also shows the horse's running style and his Quirin Speed points. So, for example, it becomes very easy to see what the early speed situation is in a race.

This report also gives a suggested oddsline for each horse, but I'll go into the oddsline later.

So you do your 'capping and head off to your favorite OTB, or set your TV to one of the TRN channels, and set off for a day of playing the races.

After the races are over is where the fun begins. Now, for another $0.25, you download the Results file from BRIS and process it into your AllWays database. This is where the real power of AllWays
comes into play.

After your database includes about 15 days of races, you can start to analyze your track. (You can start after the first day of races, but the data will look very strange!). AllWays gives you a report that categorizes each of its 71 statistics into 5 groups of IV's: usually: best, 2nd, 3rd and 4th best, and all others. It also
shows you the related ROI for each of the 5 groups of IV's.

The database can be segregated and analyzed several ways: by class, distance, age, sex, etc. The most interesting category is that of "RaceShape." AllWays classifies every race by the early speed in a
race: Single E or EP, Multiple E's, 2 or more EP's, or no E's or EP's.

Let's take an example: For ESP, there are only 4 (not 5) impact value categories: E, EP, P and S. At Monmouth Park, I have 98 races in my database for 6/6.5 Furlong, non-maidens, no 2 year-olds. Upon further review, I find that there are 26 races with multiple E's (fast early), while I have 60 races with a projected "Honest" early pace. Here is how the Impact Values and ROI's look:
Horse's Running Style
E EP P
==== ==== ====
All Horses: Impact Value 1.5 1.0 1.2
ROI for $2: 2.4 1.3 1.7

Multiple E's: Impact Value 2.0 0.7 0.9
ROI for $2: 3.3 1.2 0.9

Honest Pace Impact Value 0.7 1.1 1.3
ROI for $2: 0.8 1.3 2.1


As a reminder, an IV of 1 means that the horse with that attribute wins his fair share of races; 2.0 means he wins twice as many, and 0.5 means half.

What I immediately see here is that, in a fast race, the E's have an advantage, and John Q. Public is betting EXACTLY as you would think they would: against the E's. So I have a big edge in these situations.

Remember that I told you that it will take you 6 months to learn AllWays? When I first started using AllWays, I would not have come to such a quick conclusion about the data, with a sample size of only 26. But I have seen situations like this in earlier AllWays studies, so I have some confidence that this will work.

Creating an Oddline:
After you have 100 races or so in your database, AllWays has a program that will create statistical "profiles" for sprints and routes, turf and dirt, and maiden and non-maiden races. It creates 3 separate profiles for each category: early bias, normal, and late bias. When you print the reports, you select one of the profiles for the program to use, based on your assessment of the pace scenario, and AllWays will print out an oddsline based on that profile.

I use these profiles to help me identify how the track is playing.
I use TRN [now I'm using Youbet] and play from home, so my computer is accessible, but, when I go to the track, my laptop goes with me. After the race is run, I will select several profiles and see where AllWays ranked the winner in each. I then enter this data into a spreadsheet for further analysis.

What I don't like:
I have over 200 megs of data living in my AllWays files. I'd like to be able to analyze that data using a database program. Those of you that follow HTR/Ken Massa know that they can access their databases using database programs such as Access or Paradox.

When I try to open the AllWays files in my database program, I discovered that the AllWays data files are encrypted, so I have to buy their $900 version to access the data, and then all I get is spreadsheet output. Now, I've been considered a Lotus expert for about 18 years now, but spreadsheets have their limitations.
Besides, when I'm already paying $7 per card, why should I have to pay more?

I've given serious thought to switching to HTR, but I don't want to walk away from 3 years of work. (And what I'm doing is working, but I might be able to find more "opportunities" though further analysis.) AllWays is coming out with a major(?) upgrade in the summer, and they are requiring Win95 instead in Win3.1, so maybe the encryption will disappear. In the meantime, I'm trying to convert my original BRIS files from AllWays into Multicaps,
because, (I'm told), Multicaps files can be opened by database programs. We'll see...

Another thing about AllWays: they don't have an internet forum, so I end up here or at the HTR site...

Incidentally, AllWays has numerous track-specific profiles posted on their website ([url]www.frandsen.com[/url]). I'm currently playing Monmouth, Delaware and Evangeline; anyone interested in a copy of my profiles for these tracks, please post your e-mail address and I'll send them to you. (Make sure you check the Frandsen website
for instructions on how to install these things!). I've sent updated DelMar profiles to AllWays, twice, but they don't seem to want to post them, so if you want those, post your e-mail address and I can send those to you.
[My databases stopped in March, 2001.]

One thing that I neglected to add: if you are playing California races and using Today's Racing Digest, you are already spending more than $7 a day between Daily Racing Form and the Digest. The AllWays reports are very similar to the Digest, plus you get data files that you can analyze, so you are much further ahead with the
BRIS/AllWays combination that you would be with DRF/The Digest. (Remember, once you download files from BRIS, that file feeds both AllWays and the Past Performance Generator software that gives you a Racing Form.)

Good Luck!

[JimG]

Mike:

Thanks for taking the time to re-post this. It is helpful. I have used the software in the past...in conjunction with Capsheet, which uses the same file.

Jim