9/11 Cover Up Videos

[StartedAt18]

(http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8797525979024486145&q=9%2F11+truth)Has anyone seen these 2 videos? I was just browsing the Top 100 videos on google and I came across this documentary called "Loose Change" It's crazy how they show so much evidence that 9/11 was a cover up. The second video called "The Truth & Lies of 9/11" is even more crazy! Talks about why the CIA sells drugs, , Bush family ties witht he Nazi's, September 11th was planned etc... This video doesn't speculate anything, it's all evidence of why we are at war. Makes 100% sense to me.

Loose Change - Documentary
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1519312457137943386&q=loose+change


The Truth & Lies of 9/11
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8797525979024486145&q=9%2F11+truth

[PaceAdvantage]

If you look closely at one of the videos, you can see Bush flying around the Statue of Liberty in Marine One right before the first plane hit, with what looks like some sort of remote control flying device in his hand, antenna fully extended......

That whole "reading to kids in a classroom" thing was filmed months before, coincidentally on the same Hollywood sound stage as the 1969 moon landing.....

[kenwoodallpromos]

So it was Bush, the Saudi's and the Nazis that blew up the towers? I thought it was the Kennedys trying to fly Martha's vineyard, since Joe Kennedy liked Hitler!LOL!!

[JustRalph]

they have been seen............ and discussed here......to answer your question.

[Suff]

(http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8797525979024486145&q=9%2F11+truth)Has anyone seen these 2 videos? I was just browsing the Top 100 videos on google and I came across this documentary called "Loose Change" It's crazy how they show so much evidence that 9/11 was a cover up. The second video called "The Truth & Lies of 9/11" is even more crazy! Talks about why the CIA sells drugs, , Bush family ties witht he Nazi's, September 11th was planned etc... This video doesn't speculate anything, it's all evidence of why we are at war. Makes 100% sense to me.

Loose Change - Documentary
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1519312457137943386&q=loose+change


The Truth & Lies of 9/11
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8797525979024486145&q=9%2F11+truth




Many posters have commented on the movies......without seeing them. ..
* That is par for the course here.

[PaceAdvantage]

Many posters have commented on the movies......without seeing them. ..
* That is par for the course here.



Par for the course? Like you know....did you take a poll? I saw the movies....and I was the first to say that not much in those movies was new to me....

[OTM Al]

I watched it live from less than a mile away. I've seen pictures of the so called true happenings. One word. Bulls#$t

[Suff]

I watched it live from less than a mile away. I've seen pictures of the so called true happenings. One word. Bulls#$t

The pictures what? The movies? Still Pictures?

The movies, and many other media articulate a mysterious correlation between members of our Govt and outsiders that are tied to OBL/9-11.

[Lefty]

Soon, it will be proved, that Bush did it with the help of Space Aliens. World domination is our goal. Humans, your time is up.

[46zilzal]

Soon, it will be proved, that Bush did it with the help of Space Aliens. World domination is our goal. Humans, your time is up.
you got the world domination part correct.

[Secretariat]

I don't agree with a lot of stuff here, but it does have some interesting links, relates to Abramoff, and has some very interesting points about WTC 7 and ownership issues.

http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_ZionSummary.html

[Lefty]

The Pres has got folks in the CIA left over from Clinton Adm. They've already leaked all our secret plans for tracking terrorists to the NY Times. You nuts telling me he could have orchestrated 9-11 and kept it secret From the "Times" And then Bin Ladin jumps up and takes credit? LOL

[Lefty]

you got the world domination part correct.
Prob with you is: you don't know the diff btween domination and democracy.

[KingChas]

A lot of people here are wide awake with their eyes closed. :sleeping:

Between 911/the past 2 elections/and the current situation(s)?

Instead of approval ratings for the Pres. By which I've never been asked to participate in. I vote. :confused:
Why don't they take a survey.
Do you trust the Government? :eek:

Guess they wouldn't ask everybody to answer that either . ;)

[KingChas]

A lot of people here are wide awake with their eyes closed. :sleeping:

Between 911/the past 2 elections/and the current situation(s)?





Thoughts and questions.

9/11.To many coincidences even before these kind of films were made.
A lot of people called off work this day.Was it a Jewish Holiday?

Past 2 elections.American superior technology takes two big steps backward for mankind?

Current Situation(s). WWIII?

[Indulto]

I don't agree with a lot of stuff here, but it does have some interesting links, relates to Abramoff, and has some very interesting points about WTC 7 and ownership issues.

http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_ZionSummary.html
Sec,
Specifically which points do you find interesting AND credible? Inquiring minds need to know. ;)

[OTM Al]

That day was not a Jewish holiday. Rosh Hashanah was on the 18th that year. Yes, a lot of people called in that day because when they got out of the train station about a quarter to 9 there was a big burning hole in a building and emergency vehicles all over the place. As my friend Jerry, who at the time worked in the Century 21 building right across the street said "I looked up when I got off the train and immeadiately hauled my a@# uptown with a whole lot of other people".

These so called Jewish and Muslim phonecalls that told others not to show up that day are a load of racist crap. This did not happen. Have a good long look at the list of the dead. You will see plenty of Jewish and Arabic names there.

http://www.september11victims.com/september11victims/victims_list.htm

I find this conspiracy theory stuff behind that day just plain ridiculous. Next you'll be telling me that the Holy Grail is actually the bloodline of Jesus preserved by the Knights Templar....wait, that was a kind of fun book/movie wasn't it....Now what has happened and been justified afterward by these events is a whole different matter that I'm not getting into, but the actual event was only planned by those who orchestrated the attack.

[Suff]

Sec,
Specifically which points do you find interesting AND credible? Inquiring minds need to know. ;)

*Mohamed Atta’s trip aboard Jack Abramoff's Boat on September 4th, 2001.

*Along with 4 other hijackers.

[GaryG]

The term Zionist is used almost exclusively by anti-semites. Show how about a swastika for your new avatar?

[Suff]

The term Zionist is used almost exclusively by anti-semites. Show how about a swastika for your new avatar?

Man..U funny.



Nearly three decades after leaving his job as a marketing manager at Colgate-Palmolive, Ed McAteer, considered one of the godfathers of the modern Religious Right, still sounds like a salesman. In a well-honed patter, he tells of introducing Jerry Falwell to then-presidential candidate Ronald Reagan, discussing spiritual matters with Jesse Helms and John Ashcroft, and helping organize the evangelical movement that has become the most powerful grassroots component of the Republican Party. But no subject excites the 76-year-old born-again Baptist more than his unequivocal love for the Jewish people and the state of Israel, and his increasingly influential role as one of the nation's leading "Christian Zionists."

[Secretariat]

Sec,
Specifically which points do you find interesting AND credible? Inquiring minds need to know. ;)

I posted this in relation to the 911 thread issue.

#2 – The Israeli spy ring - CREDIBLE IN LIEU OF FRANKLIN's CONFESSION

#3 – The Larry Silverstein connection

INTERESTING DUE TO PHYSICISTS QUESTIONING THE FALL OF WTC 7.

#4 – Accounting for 2.6 trillion of taxpayer money is always interesting.

CREDIBLE SINCE IT CAME FROM RUMSFELD'S OWN MOUTH IN CONGRESSIONAL HEARING.

#11 – The Abramoff connection

INTERESTING IN LIEU OF ABRAMOFF'S PROBLEMS

I want to say something about Zionism. The term brings up suggestions of swatikas as Gary mentions and Third Reich, but Zionism is defined in the dictionary as :

“A Jewish movement that arose in the late 19th century in response to growing anti-Semitism and sought to reestablish a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Modern Zionism is concerned with the support and development of the state of Israel.”

AIPAC's mission statement is a one focus mission by the second largest PAC in the US (ahead of even the NRA), and it's mission is concerned with "the support of the state of Israel.” In other word's Modern Zionism.

One is not an anti-Semite for simply questioning Israel and it's influence on our national security policy. As I stated in another thread, I am in total agreement with Israel's right to defend itself, but policy that prohibits questions is not real policy but dicta.

[KingChas]

That day was not a Jewish holiday. Rosh Hashanah was on the 18th that year. Yes, a lot of people called in that day because when they got out of the train station about a quarter to 9 there was a big burning hole in a building and emergency vehicles all over the place. .

:eek: Why would you call off work when you see the building you work in is a big burning hole? :confused:

Oh' I see my building is on fire I better call off work today. :liar:

Hello Mom this is Jim Bob,yea Jim Bob Billie Joe the 3rd.Ya believe me? :sleeping:

[hcap]

http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/AnsQJones1.pdf

Anybody know about this?

The WTC collapse...
Free fall velocity of upper floors is out of whack. The entire collapse occured close to "free fall", or if the lower floors provided almost no resistance.

According to the laws of physics, the "pancake" theory of successive upper floors smashing down on each lower floor, is wrong.

Not sure about what he is saying about cold fusion experiments however.

[hcap]

http://www.rense.com/general72/newdi.htm

"The official 9/11 Commission Report (your tax dollars wasted) states the following:

http://www.9-11commission.gov/

Impact time, AA Flt 11: 8:46:40 a.m.

Impact time, UA Flt 175: 9:03:11 a.m.

.......HOWEVER,

http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/LCSN/Eq/20010911_wtc.html

the official data readings from Lamont-Doherty give the following seismic events:

time 8:46:26: 0.9 Richter, signal duration 12 seconds [reported as first impact, WTC1]

time 9:02:54: 0.7 Richter, signal duration 6 seconds [reported as second impact, WTC2]

Conclusion:

Two notable seismic events occurred before the planes ever hit the towers and were so close timewise to the actual impacts of the planes that Lamont-Doherty reported them as the impacts. The logical conclusion (which coincides with many eyewitnesses in the basements, e.g., William Rodriquez) is that these were explosives detonated to coincide with the aircraft hitting the towers. "

[JustRalph]

you are quoting two reports that give less than 30 second time differences and you are relying on that as some kind of linch pin in your conspiracy theory? Give me a break.............

[StartedAt18]

-Watch how he answers "did you have advance knowledge of September 11th" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j9Bj8JJwco 43sec


-Bush lying about when he learned about the 9/11 attacks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm73wOuPL60 1min 10sec


-Bush says he never linked Iraq with september 11th!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKd71JxEYzE 1min 33sec


-Rumsfeld caught lying by The Daily Show. *my favorite* lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMii6DhwAiM 4min 33sec

[StartedAt18]

you are quoting two reports that give less than 30 second time differences and you are relying on that as some kind of linch pin in your conspiracy theory? Give me a break.............


All those put options put on Morgan Stanley which occupied 22 floors of the WTC and Merrill Lynch told me that they knew about the WTC attacks before they happened. I'm certain this was planned and that there were bombs already in the buildings. Firefighters and police were telling reporters of bomb explosions.

Anyway.. if you watch the video that was on PBS when Larry Silverstein the owner of the WTC says to the fire fighters to go ahead and PULL the building. Man.. bombs were already in WTC 7.

Here is the video btw..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNEoiOP76QQ

Firefighter tells a guy "bomb in the building start clearing out"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFDP9gZz7QE

[Tom]

For Sale: Bridge.
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Financing available.

Call 555- DUHH

[JustRalph]

For Sale: Bridge.
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Financing available.

Call 555- DUHH

call 555-startedat18


we have been down this road before. I am glad you are part of the conspiracy. Congratulations on being hoodwinked..........have a nice day!

[shanta]

I have watched a few of the videos and checked into the disappearing money.

Way too many " firsts" happened that day as far as collapsing towers from fire etc etc for this to be a non aided occurence.

No question in my mind the gov't was involved in 9/11. No question. Dirtbags.

This coming from a registered republican.

Rich

[sq764]

...what are the reasons and benefit behind the govt being behind 9/11?

I'll start you out with the one on the tips of your lunatic conspiracy theory tongues:

1) Bush wanted to instill fear into the American public and set his platform for the election.

2)....

[Tom]

I have watched a few of the videos and checked into the disappearing money.

Way too many " firsts" happened that day as far as collapsing towers from fire etc etc for this to be a non aided occurence.

No question in my mind the gov't was involved in 9/11. No question. Dirtbags.

This coming from a registered republican.

Rich

But....how many towers that high, constructed that way, were ever hit by huge jets full of fuel before?
Watching the planes actually hit, then the towers fall, I can only conclude there is no way anyone "helped" them.


BTW, I fully agree wtih the dirtbag stuff, just for different resons.:D

[OTM Al]

I think your time would be much better spent researching and expounding on the losses in personal freedom and the expanding role of the government that occured after Sept 11 2001 all in the name of our safety. These things are real as opposed to this conspiracy crapola. If bombs went off before the planes struck, don't you think those of us watching the damn thing happen here in NYC might of noticed???? We were all only staring right at the damn thing when the second plane hit. And if the bombs went off before the planes hit, pray tell why they took so freakin' long to come down???? I don't care for the current administration, but please, blame them for what they have actually done, not this garbage

[JPinMaryland]

Nice try, Al...

Folks take a close look at Al's avatar, his neck is already at 95% extension there and he cannot see more than 40 degrees above horizon. Now imagine him trying to see the twin towers on 9/11. No way. I say the bum never even saw them hit.

[OTM Al]

There used to be a very nice direct view of the towers straight from the corner of Washington Square North and 5th Avenue. From there you could see straight down west Broadway, which essentially runs right into the plaza area where the buildings stood. I work in one of the townhouses on Washington Square North. You have probably seen them in movies or TV, because there seems to be a film crew here every other week.

By the way, I don't terribly appreciate your insinuations or your name calling. I won't bother responding by telling you exactly what you are out of respect for PA and the rules of the board, but I assume you have enough of a gutter metality that you can figure out exactly what I mean.

[rastajenk]

Were there bombs in the Capitol, too, the alleged target of Flight 93? Or in the White House itself, another alleged target? Was the government involved in the WTC bombing in '93, or is that where they got the idea for future use? Is the bin laden tape where he's talking about how grand it all turned out part of the scam too?

The Bush administration was late getting into office, remember? So the first thing they do is sit down around a big table (cause lots of people have to be involved, right?) and Chimpy says, "Gee Uncle Dick, what's the first thing on our agenda?" And Uncle Dick nods to Kaptain Karl and says, "Tell him, Mr. Rove." "Well, we blow up New York, devastate the economy, start a war of civilizations, wipe our butts with the Constitution, and we won't have to worry about re-election next time around." "Cool," says Chimpy. "Anybody opposed? No? Then let's roll with it. What's for lunch?" Is that how it went down?

[Suff]

Nice try, Al...

Folks take a close look at Al's avatar, his neck is already at 95% extension there and he cannot see more than 40 degrees above horizon. Now imagine him trying to see the twin towers on 9/11. No way. I say the bum never even saw them hit.

Al's a peach. Don't mess with Al.

[Suff]

The thing I find interesting about people is the manner in which they feign innocence, and act incredulous at the mention of potential lies , and how utterly preposterous it is to believe anything than the Govt's story.



That part is a tip off to a few things.

They haven't watched the documentaries, or done any significant reading on 9-11-01.
They don't have any knowledge of Vietnam circa 1964
They don't have any knowledge of Cuba circa 1961
They have no understanding of PNAC http://www.newamericancentury.org/ (http://www.newamericancentury.org/)
At this juncture in time does it matter? People can choose to believe what they want. I don't feel any special need to convince anyone.

One thing I know... The version the Govt gives .....is not true.

[Snag]

What happened to common sense?

Think about how many people it would have taken to do what you are talking about.
Between put options, seismic events, signal duration, and planting bombs, I'm surprised you guys have not found a cure for cancer and solved all the mysteries of life.

[JustRalph]

The thing I find interesting about people is the manner in which they feign innocence, and act incredulous at the mention of potential lies , and how utterly preposterous it is to believe anything than the Govt's story.

That part is a tip off to a few things.

They haven't watched the documentaries, or done any significant reading on 9-11-01.
They don't have any knowledge of Vietnam circa 1964
They don't have any knowledge of Cuba circa 1961
They have no understanding of PNAC http://www.newamericancentury.org/ (http://www.newamericancentury.org/)
At this juncture in time does it matter? People can choose to believe what they want. I don't feel any special need to convince anyone.

One thing I know... The version the Govt gives .....is not true.

You are not the only one who knows how to read. You constantly jump into threads and act like you are the only SOB with an Internet connection. You act like you are the only one who has looked into stuff. For your information, not all of us are ignorant. We don't understand things as well as you, is your constant mantra. You believe what you want to believe........fine! But 90% of this shit has been proven to be wrong. The rest is speculation and unprovable from either side. If GW and the rest of the government was responsible for 9-11 it would be the most incredible conspiracy ever pulled off in the history of the world. It would have taken hundreds if not thousands of people cooperating together. It is far fetched and completely assinine to think that anybody could have pulled it off. Get real Mike! Come out of that freakin haze you have been in and come back to the real world.

[Suff]

. It would have taken hundreds if not thousands of people cooperating together. It is far fetched and completely assinine to think that anybody could have pulled it off. .

Over at one of your favorite sites ( www.freerepublic.com (http://www.freerepublic.com/)) they have a whole section dedicated to the Homosexual conspiracy. You seen it? You can't miss it.. it is right there on the TOP LINE/right.

So..... Here you have a group who believe that a bunch of men who like touching other men's PP's are conspiring to take over the country.

Now in addition to that... that same crowd believes that the creator of the world... Lord God Jesus Christ himself... is being eradicated from our countries consciousness in a mass conspiracy.

Now I tell you.. That any man who believes that PP suckers, and Atheists, can conspire to take over a whole country... can certainly believe that a few maniac's can conspire to fly some planes into buildings?

But I have no desire to argue the merits of my position with you. I am convinced that the events are not what the US govt asserts they are.

It is far fetched and completely asinine to think that anybody could have pulled it off.

No...and that is the reason I bring up Vietnam & Cuba ( although there are many others). Because if anyone has seen loose change in it's entirety..then you have seen TOP Secret documents outlining a Govt Conspiracy to commit acts, specifically designed to garner support for an Indo-China War.

So you are wrong... not only is it NOT far fetched, and asinine... it has been done before ....multiple times


I , like many others, can tell who reads and and who doesn't. I can tell when people make arguments like... "It woulda been impossible" or "why would they do that".... or "its far fetched"...that they don't read, and don't watch the Documnetaries. because those questions are addressed.

You can argue the merits of the case. But simply stating that

1. It couldn't be done
2. They wouldn't do it
3. It's asinine

those are not quantifiable arguments. Those are faith based arguments.

[Tom]

So what's your take on the Easter Bunny? :bang:

[Lefty]

If there was a shred of truth to any of this, it would have been on the front page of the N.Y. Times everyday and would still be there.

[Suff]

So what's your take on the Easter Bunny? :bang:

He's a devil worship'n homo.

[Lefty]

So what's your take on the Easter Bunny? :bang:
They have videos and eyewitnesses spotting him hoppin down the Bunny Trail

[Pace Cap'n]

I sure would like to know why building 7 collapsed.

[highnote]

What happened to all the money, gold, etc., that must have been in vaults in the World Trade Towers? Was any of that recovered?

One of the things I thought about after the shock of the tragedy of all the people dying in the buildings was how much bullion, currency and works of art, etc. that must have been lost.

[Suff]

I sure would like to know why building 7 collapsed.

http://www.wtc7.net/

[Tom]

I sure would like to know why building 7 collapsed.

Gravity.

[StartedAt18]

Ok for those that are still non believers that the government was behind all this. You need to watch both of these videos if you haven't already.

Video 1 How dozens of fbi and deefense intelligence agents were threatened with arrest by the federal government if they got in the way of Al-Qaeda operations and more. This guy predicted that attacks on his show months before they happened.

Video 2 doesn't talk about speculations, were there explosives?, were the planes piloted by remote control? It's all about facts and evidence. It's a few years old but it's a great video.

BTW these videos are free to watch on video.google.com

1. 9/11 The Road To Tyranny
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8797525979024486145&q=the+truth+and+lies+of+9-11

2.The Truth & Lies of 9/11
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1358726890127819985&q=alex+jones+9/11

[sq764]

Ok for those that are still non believers that the government was behind all this. You need to watch both of these videos if you haven't already.

Video 1 How dozens of fbi and deefense intelligence agents were threatened with arrest by the federal government if they got in the way of Al-Qaeda operations and more. This guy predicted that attacks on his show months before they happened.

Video 2 doesn't talk about speculations, were there explosives?, were the planes piloted by remote control? It's all about facts and evidence. It's a few years old but it's a great video.

BTW these videos are free to watch on video.google.com

1. 9/11 The Road To Tyranny
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8797525979024486145&q=the+truth+and+lies+of+9-11

2.The Truth & Lies of 9/11
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1358726890127819985&q=alex+jones+9/11
This is overload for me. I still haven't figured out how Bush managed to create hurricane Katrina..

[lsbets]

Suff laments that when he gets on a rant people call him a drunk, but in his usual fashion, he gets into a thread and says that anyone who disagrees with him doesn't read, is ignorant, doesn't know history, etc ........ Then when people shoot back he cries about it.

I hate to tell you this oh Boston Buffoon - I would bet on any of the right wingers to come out higher than you on an IQ test. Just as you are not nearly as important as you think you are, you are also not nearly as clever as you think you are.

[Secretariat]

This is overload for me. I still haven't figured out how Bush managed to create hurricane Katrina..

Global warming. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[sq764]

I have to guess that you conspiracy theorists also assume that the govt was behind Kennedy and MLK assasinations, right?

I mean why stop at 9/11?

I also think they were behind the Red Sox winning it all. I think they got to Rivera.. Just a hunch.

[Steve 'StatMan']

I can sumarize my thoughts on these things with the following humorous analogy.

Its one thing to question and figure out that there is no Santa Claus, even though your parents once told you so.

It's perfectly logical to assume there is no Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy either.

But it's would be really rash that, because your parents once assured you that you were their only child, to start digging holes in your back yard looking for your older siblings bones because "I can't trust my parents!"

[Secretariat]

Seriously, GW set in motion actions that made Katrina more of a mess than it had to be, from his appointment for FEMA, to ignoring the wetlands issues in New Orleans, to his guitar while peopel were dying.

[StartedAt18]

This is overload for me. I still haven't figured out how Bush managed to create hurricane Katrina..


This video was obtained by the Associated Press of George Bush getting a briefing of the possible destruction that Katrina could cause to the people of new orleans. He later told ABC news "I don't think anyone could have predicted the breach of the levies"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gO0p5CNTtqc 2min 51 sec


Timeline of what bush was doing before and after Katrina
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-7_4c86_uM 4min 46 sec

[sq764]

This video was obtained by the Associated Press of George Bush getting a briefing of the possible destruction that Katrina could cause to the people of new orleans. He later told ABC news "I don't think anyone could have predicted the breach of the levies"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gO0p5CNTtqc 2min 51 sec
What did the mayor and governor do prior to Katrina? ANd they were given funds for it, what happened?

Just nice and neat to blame everything on Bush isn't it?

[sq764]

Seriously, GW set in motion actions that made Katrina more of a mess than it had to be, from his appointment for FEMA, to ignoring the wetlands issues in New Orleans, to his guitar while peopel were dying.
Oh yeah, I remember, its because, as Kayne West so eloquently let us know, "George Bush hates black people"

[46zilzal]

Just nice and neat to blame everything on Bush isn't it?
when the rutabaga screws up as often as he does, yes, it is an easy thing to do. The FEMA people could have been mobilized earlier.

[StartedAt18]

Oh yeah, I remember, its because, as Kayne West so eloquently let us know, "George Bush hates black people"

lmao Kanye West is a college drop out that needed his jaw broken for the second time that day.

But why isn't it Bush fault? He knew about it? All he does is lie and tell the media that he didn't know that Katrina was going to cause this much devestation. Instead of being in San Diego and Arizona, he should have been working his ass off to prepare the city of new orleans for what was going to happen. It's like when it's going to snow in Washington DC, the salt trucks are ready to go the night before!

[46zilzal]

One of the interesting things about Katrina, as you well know, is many of the people displaced did not own their own homes, that they were renters.
-- Yeah, that's... interesting... Cleveland, Ohio, Mar. 20, 2006

good old rutabaga..he has his pulse on the world, eloquently I might add.

[sq764]

Wait wait wait, you are saying our president lied to us?

Well this changes everything...

I need to do some soul searching.


lmao Kanye West is a college drop out that needed his jaw broken for the second time that day.

But why isn't it Bush fault? He knew about it? All he does is lie and tell the media that he didn't know that Katrina was going to cause this much devestation. Instead of being in San Diego and Arizona, he should have been working his ass off to prepare the city of new orleans for what was going to happen. It's like when it's going to snow in Washington DC, the salt trucks are ready to go the night before!

[46zilzal]

the rutabaga doesnt know the difference between truth and anything else. Proven that over and over

[Snag]

Wait just a damn minute.


Bush is in charge of the salt trucks in Washington D.C.??? Ok. I give up!!!!!!!!

[StartedAt18]

Wait just a damn minute.


Bush is in charge of the salt trucks in Washington D.C.??? Ok. I give up!!!!!!!!

lol I used to live in Alexandria VA, no Bush isn't in charge of salt trucks lol but I"m just sayin.. it's that easy.. why didn't he prepare Louisiana for Katrina?

[Tom]

lol I used to live in Alexandria VA, no Bush isn't in charge of salt trucks lol but I"m just sayin.. it's that easy.. why didn't he prepare Louisiana for Katrina?

Becasue it was'nt his job.
He offered help BEFORE it hit and was turned down.

Katrina was a disastor for serveral reasons:

1. Mayor Naygin failed to prepare
2. The govenor failed to prepare
3. The people were basically ignorant dipsticks
4. LA is a BLUE state

[rastajenk]

FEMA seems to do all right with Florida 'canes. Why is that?

[JustRalph]

FEMA seems to do all right with Florida 'canes. Why is that?

Because they don't have levies that were predicted to fail and flood the city. BTW, those predictions go back as far as 1968. The local paper down there had written 4 different series of articles that predicted the catastrophe from government and private reports. The same paper also said that the State had been warned no less than 22 times that this would happen with a Level 5 hurricane. They sat on their hands for more than 30 years until it actually happened. Bush didn't let them down............the state and local governments let them down. The character of the area was revealed after thirty years..........damn shame.........but nobody can say they didn't see it coming.

[Snag]

JR, I'm not sure people were setting on their hands.

I think there were many with their hands out.

[Tom]

They ran a computer simulation the year earlier - that was just about exactly what happened when Katrina hit!
Ray Naygin was too busy keeping his town chocolate, I suppose!

[PaceAdvantage]

Nice try, Al...

Folks take a close look at Al's avatar, his neck is already at 95% extension there and he cannot see more than 40 degrees above horizon. Now imagine him trying to see the twin towers on 9/11. No way. I say the bum never even saw them hit.

Yo, everyone....I believe this was a JOKE! You get it? Based on the avatar picture of a goat....now you see the humor, right? OK then, everyone relax....

[Suff]

Suff laments that when he gets on a rant people call him a drunk, but in his usual fashion, he gets into a thread and says that anyone who disagrees with him doesn't read, is ignorant, doesn't know history, etc ........ Then when people shoot back he cries about it.

I hate to tell you this oh Boston Buffoon - I would bet on any of the right wingers to come out higher than you on an IQ test. Just as you are not nearly as important as you think you are, you are also not nearly as clever as you think you are.
What a Troll you have morphed into huh? Oh well... Not much I can do about that. Your responsible for yourself.

I make points that are contained in books and movies. When people have seen those movies or read the books.... they engage me in discussion about them.

When they haven't....they behave like you. Very simple.

[Suff]

..........damn shame.........but nobody can say they didn't see it coming.

Thanks for getting the thread back on topic. 9-11-01

[PaceAdvantage]

"Boston Buffoon" is a bit much, but then again Suff, you've posted your share of doozies as well (I believe you hold the distinction of "longest surviving poster with the most edited/deleted posts on PaceAdvantage")....so don't go crying troll....it's unbecoming.

[Light]

PA

You need to note how many times LS turns a debate into slandering someone he disagrees with.

[Suff]

"Boston Buffoon" is a bit much, but then again Suff, you've posted your share of doozies as well (I believe you hold the distinction of "longest surviving poster with the most edited/deleted posts on PaceAdvantage")....so don't go crying troll....it's unbecoming.

cry? I could care less ( or much)... He's morphed into a troll.. so what.

Boston Buffoon? Doesn't bother me. Let him go...

A troll by my definition is someone who posts to annoy, or post to personalize.

The thread is 9-11 right? Then why is The guy commenting on my presentation? Only because it appears to agitate him. He's not agitating me at all.

The reason he's troll'd...is that its the 3 or 4th time a two weeks. So no cry ok. He's trolling....and you really have nothing to do with it.

carry on

[lsbets]

PA

You need to note how many times LS turns a debate into slandering someone he disagrees with.

PA took exception to Boston Buffoon, its his site, I'll refrain from using that phrase. I take exception to being called brainless, a coward, doomed to hell, a murderer, ignorant, uneducated, and sitting through quote after quote from Nazi websites etc, etc, etc... Its PA's site, I'll follow his guidelines, but I hate to tell you Light, shooting back with an observation after sitting through the hate and vitriol that you and SUff thinks passes for debate is not slander.

[lsbets]

cry? I could care less ( or much)... He's morphed into a troll.. so what.

Boston Buffoon? Doesn't bother me. Let him go...

A troll by my definition is someone who posts to annoy, or post to personalize.

The thread is 9-11 right? Then why is The guy commenting on my presentation? Only because it appears to agitate him. He's not agitating me at all.

The reason he's troll'd...is that its the 3 or 4th time a two weeks. So no cry ok. He's trolling....and you really have nothing to do with it.

carry on

It seems to have bothered you enough to comment on it twice now. Either way, it doesn't matter, but your description of a "troll" seems to be a fairly accurate representation of your posting, which I responded to. It seems that old Suff, the wannabe tough guy, can't take a little heat.

[Suff]

. It seems that old Suff, the wannabe tough guy, can't take a little heat.

Fire away yea Hayseed. Your off target so bad I can barely hear the sounds , never mind feel anything.

Basically because your wrong. About more things than you know.


But that's ok. I can take it....so I'm glad to be here for you.

Reference the insults... I've been taking them for as long as I been in off topic. I get it from the NY'rs to the Red Necks......and none of them ever lay a glove on me.

No one gets the best of a Bostonian!:jump: No one.:lol:

[Tom]

Yeah, they get themselves - with tunnels! :rolleyes:

[JustRalph]

Fire away yea Hayseed.

nice........!

hayseed
One entry found for hayseed.
Main Entry: hay·seed
Pronunciation: 'hA-"sEd
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural hayseed or hayseeds
1 a : seed shattered from hay b : clinging bits of straw or chaff from hay
2 plural hayseeds : BUMPKIN, YOKEL

[PaceAdvantage]

I can't win no matter what I do. Those on the left here say I favor posts by those on the right, and those on the right say I overcompensate for my own political leanings by letting those on the left get away with more shit....Both camps probably have a solid point from time to time, as I am guilty of doing both, although neither side will admit it....

All I know is that the romper room baloney takes away from the debates that are at most times pretty interesting in off-topic.

My main question becomes: Why is it so difficult for the supposed "intellectuals" in off-topic to maintain the debate ABOVE a 5th grade level?

[StartedAt18]

I just copied and pasted this article from: http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/cspan_runs_symposium_panel.htm


C-SPAN has confirmed that their coverage of the 9/11 + The Neo-Con Agenda Panel Discussion will air on C-SPAN 1 on July 29th at 8PM (EST). The panel features incredible presentations by 9/11 Scholars for Truth (http://st911.org/) founder James Fetzer, BYU Physics Professor Steven Jones, President of the Institute for Space and Security Studies Dr. Robert M. Bowman, Lt. Col., USAF, ret., Filmmaker and Radio Broadcaster Alex Jones, and Terrorism Expert Webster Tarpley.
The appearance of this discussion on the nation’s premiere public affairs cable network is an incredible boon to the 9/11 Truth Movement. None of the 9/11 Truth events that C-SPAN has covered in the past are as hard-hitting as the 9/11 + The Neo-Con Agenda program. This panel discussion cuts to the heart of the issue and exposes the events of September 11th, 2001 as a complex premeditated plot carried out by criminal elements within the U.S. Government as a pretext for launching a the endless “War on Terror” in which the globe is currently embroiled. C-SPAN’s coverage of this pivotal information will bring considerable national attention to the 9/11 Truth Movement. It will also lend further credibility to the Scholars for 9/11 Truth, the premiere organization within the movement for peer-reviewed scientific research on 9/11 issues.

Each member of the panel brought their own particular perspective and expertise to the discussion while each maintained throughout their comments that 9/11 was an “inside job.”

Alex Jones, a progenitor of the 9/11 Truth Movement introduced the panel and acted as moderator. Professor Steven E. Jones, an expert in Physics, re-capped his vital new research which has conclusively proven that demolition incendiaries were used to bring down World Trade Center and could have only been placed there in advance of 9/11.

As a Distinguished McKnight University Professor of Philosophy at the University of Minnesota and a former Marine Corps officer, James Fetzer cut through the myths surrounding the 9/11 hijackers. Former Air Force Interceptor Pilot Robert Bowman brought up the lack of air defense on the day of 9/11 and shed light on the slough of drills conducted on 9/11 to distract the military and prevent Flights 11 & 77 from being shot down.

Finally Author and Historian Webster Tarpley tied all of the information together to paint a picture of 9/11. He described the drills, Bush’s actions and the blow-by-blow details of that fateful day that revealed what could only be called the horrible truth of a conspiracy fact.

It is crucial that everyone see this historic panel discussion on C-SPAN. Tell your friends and family, email colleagues, and post links on message boards. This is an incredible step in spreading the word about the truth about 9/11.

The program will air on C-SPAN 1 at 8PM EST (7PM CST) on Saturday, July 29th and then air again for the West Coast at 11pm EST (10pm CST).

[Suff]

Front Page story on American Free Press ...July 24th issue.


Samuel Danner eyewitness ( RED arrow)

http://www.total911.info/2006/07/samuel-danner-pentagon-eyewitness.html

[JPinMaryland]

perhaps someone can explain what that photo is supposed to mean. I probably have not followed the thread as closely as I could so maybe I am missing something.

INcidentally I did talk to OTM AL and he realizes it was a joke. Like a lot of internet discussion he was upset by way the thread was going and was sort of responding to that. I can understand that, lots of ideas go on at once and its easy to cross post or cross respond or whatever.

My next avatar will have to be of a giraffe.

I'd really like to hear that physics professor's theory, though that should be a good one.

[OTM Al]

JP and I are square now but I will also publically appoligize for blowing up at him. He's a good guy and I was wrong to take it out on him.

So today I, with a much clear mind find myself drawn back to this, so I am checking out these websites, being that my boss is gone, its Friday, and I don't really feel much like working.....

All I can say about this total911info site is wow....and not in a good way. Here is a quote from the main page about a book coming out in a couple weeks that is supposed to debunk alot of the myths

" Hearst publications, founded by lying yellow journalist warmonger and Bohemian Grove member William Randolph Hearst bought Popular Mechanics a few years back and purged its professional staff in favor of disingenous lickspittle hacks and government agents who would do the deceased Hearst proud.

Chief among those new hires was "lead researcher" Benjamin Chertoff, cousin of Homeland Security Secretary and likely Mossad agent Michael Chertoff. Interestingly, the Chertoff family hails from Russia, and Chertoff is Russian for "devil."

Not satisfied with confining its straw men and lies to magazine format, Hearst has expanded the magazine article to a thin little paperback book (192 pages), featuring an introduction by crazed warmonger Senator John McCain, who also comes from a family of traitors, his father Admiral McCain having been instrumental in the attempt to sink the USS Liberty as a pretext to launch World War III."

Okayyyyyyyyyyyyyy........here's an objective site looking for facts.....BTW being that 1967 was the year I was born, I didn't know about the USS Liberty incident. Makes for interesting reading, but it seems most of the theories there are that Israel did it on purpose or that it was some Israel-US plot, despite the fact that we weren't really buddy buddy with them just yet...Google USS Liberty if you got a bit. I guess that is all tied together too...

In another spot on the site, the author is applauding Oliver Stone for putting subtle hints of a conspiracy in his new film, but they are critical because he didn't go far enough......

This explains that picture BTW. Kinda sad really about the old man. But my point is that these are the types of "facts" that conspiracy theorists are building their cases on. House of cards people. Take one out and the whole thing comes tumbling down.....

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8567&st=0&#entry6232904

[Wiley]

perhaps someone can explain what that photo is supposed to mean. I probably have not followed the thread as closely as I could so maybe I am missing something.

Go to the link and you can read the Danner account of what happened at the Pentagon after it was hit on 9/11. Jest of picture, the helmet wearing guy was someone in the 'know' leading a horse and pony show of looking for accident scene evidence, without any concern or search for possible survivors.

From a physics standpoint, the collapse of WTC 7 sure physically looks like an implosion collapse but apparently all of the steel and building materials were carted off quickly before proper analysis could be performed.

There are some interesting insights to these sites and maybe I am naive but where some of these guys see espionage, I see the alternative -incompetance, I mean this is the Bush adminstration and our U.S. government that fails in so many other areas but can somehow magnificently pull off something as huge as 9/11. Another thing to always keep in mind is there any motive for the people behind these conspirarcy claims. Not saying a conspirarcy is not possible, just seems unlikely. Nothing wrong with investigating it to the fullest either.

Years ago I read an article I think in Omni magazine on the JFK assasination and there was a line I always remember that I think fits here as well: "Powerful events breed their own network of inconsistencies"

[Tom]

I thought that photo was the jockey's race on Extreme Day a Calder!:p

JFK - how many yreas did the total impossibility fo the single bullet thoery get bandied about? Then when subjected to forensics scinece, turns out it is the ONLY possible outcome - it had to be one bullet and it was. Just like everything else that day was proven, through scinece to be possible.
I guess a lot of people have to live under the assumption there is an evil "they" out there, out to get us. I prefer to believe it is "us" and some of "us" are nuts from time to time.

Remeber that Russina comic - Yassoff Smirnoff (?) - he said he was looking at a couch in the furniture store, and the saleman said "We stand behind our funiture."
Smirnoff said, "OH NO! That is why I left Soviet Union!":D

There is no way the number of people that would be involved in this could ever keep it a secret.

[JustRalph]

That physics professor has been on several radio shows and everytime he is debated by someone in the know, he gets blown out of the water. I have heard him on the radio no less than 4 times. He founded this group that thinks Bush was behind 9-11. you can take it from there..........

[KingChas]

There are some interesting insights to these sites and maybe I am naive but where some of these guys see espionage, I see the alternative -incompetance, I mean this is the Bush adminstration and our U.S. government that fails in so many other areas but can somehow magnificently pull off something as huge as 9/11. Another thing to always keep in mind is there any motive for the people behind these conspirarcy claims. Not saying a conspirarcy is not possible, just seems unlikely. Nothing wrong with investigating it to the fullest either.



Presidential family's, foreign smarter friends maybe?
Friendly for now :eek: ,Foreign Oil Kings taking the gold and with our help a few foreign oil competitors out of their way with it.
While here at home my home oil and gasoline prices empower the rich Texans etc.( Pres. family) and their cronies.
I'm with Suff on this one. ;)

[JPinMaryland]

I really was thinking that was the jockey race thing that I had heard about. But I wasnt sure if they really had held it...

The thing about this professor guy: is he saying the bombs were on the same floor that the planes hit at? Didnt we just establish how hard it is to guide a plane into a building and hit exactly where you are aiming? That means these guys had to hit exactly on the right floor or else everyone would figure it out...

" Hearst publications, founded by lying yellow journalist warmonger and Bohemian Grove member William Randolph Hearst bought Popular Mechanics a few years back and purged its professional staff in favor of disingenous lickspittle hacks and government agents who would do the deceased Hearst proud.

Chief among those new hires was "lead researcher" Benjamin Chertoff, cousin of Homeland Security Secretary and likely Mossad agent Michael Chertoff. Interestingly, the Chertoff family hails from Russia, and Chertoff is Russian for "devil."

Not satisfied with confining its straw men and lies to magazine format, Hearst has expanded the magazine article to a thin little paperback book (192 pages), featuring an introduction by crazed warmonger Senator John McCain, who also comes from a family of traitors, his father Admiral McCain having been instrumental in the attempt to sink the USS Liberty as a pretext to launch World War III."

You know this does explain what the hell happened to Popular Mechanics about ten years ago or so..

[PaceAdvantage]

The thing about this professor guy: is he saying the bombs were on the same floor that the planes hit at?

I don't think so. That would make absolutely no sense. Forget about the difficult aiming part of it....the logical thing would be to place bombs low and hit with plane high....dual shock....

[StartedAt18]

This was on last night on c-span. Check it out..
rtsp://video.c-span.org/60days/ap072906.rm (rtsp://video.c-span.org/60days/ap072906.rm)

The pannel includes:

Alex Jones - Filmmaker and Radio Broadcaster

James Fetzer - 9/11 Scholars for Truth founder

Steven Jones - BYU Physics Professor

Dr. Robert M. Bowman Lt. Col., USAF, ret.

[PaceAdvantage]

Are they going to repeat this on CSPAN?

[Tom]

Completely lost all creditbilitry wtih me in the opening sentence...."neo con agenda..."

Factual presentations by reputable speakers do not start out with this polotical crap.

Had the speakers acted in a professional and responsible manner, I would have listened further.

But not much.
They said it was coming from Los Angleses and that was strike 2 and 3 rihgt there. Wacko City, USA.

I file this under Hcap's cartoons......if anyone watches the whole thing, let me know if they try to sell you some elixur at the end! :lol::bang:


Seriously, IF there was such a successful comspiracy,, and IF they did bring down the towers, why would they not have taken out this guy long ago? I mean, is you can bring down the WYC, hit the Pentagon, and keep everyone quiet about it, why would you let this pinhead run around showing the evidence?????

[StartedAt18]

Completely lost all creditbilitry wtih me in the opening sentence...."neo con agenda..."

Factual presentations by reputable speakers do not start out with this polotical crap.

Had the speakers acted in a professional and responsible manner, I would have listened further.

But not much.
They said it was coming from Los Angleses and that was strike 2 and 3 rihgt there. Wacko City, USA.

I file this under Hcap's cartoons......if anyone watches the whole thing, let me know if they try to sell you some elixur at the end! :lol::bang:


Seriously, IF there was such a successful comspiracy,, and IF they did bring down the towers, why would they not have taken out this guy long ago? I mean, is you can bring down the WYC, hit the Pentagon, and keep everyone quiet about it, why would you let this pinhead run around showing the evidence?????

You obviously haven't watched the videos or done any reading. Here is the new Alex Jones video that talks about the history of government sponsored terrorism. Also, how Tony Blair was involved of the London bombings to boost his ratings. And just like 9/11 high ranking officials were warned about it before it happened.
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-5948263607579389947

If the government has nothing to hide then why are they hiding everything? Where are the planes? Why can they show planes going into towers but only show 5 frames of footage when something blows up in the pentagon? Why did they go to the place where I used to work at 5 years ago "Sheraton Hotel" to take the video surveilance footage? Why are 7 of the 19 hijackers still alive and well? Some have even been interviewed by the bbc lol
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm Sunday, 23 September, 2001
Bush is all about the oil. There's no easier way to start a war than to cause some catastrophic event and blame it on your enemy. Haven't you noticed that everytime some event happens, a presidents ratings always go up? All this president lies and when he gets caught he makes the most bogus excuses lol! Oh And btw The Bushes are making money off this war. His family and Osama Bin Ladens family both own Haliburton which will make trillions of dollars off of war contracts if this war goes on a decade like George Bush hopes it does.

Are they going to repeat this on CSPAN?
You can watch it by click below
rtsp://video.c-span.org/60days/ap072906.rm (rtsp://video.c-span.org/60days/ap072906.rm)

[PaceAdvantage]

So they don't repeat stuff like this on cspan? I realize I can see it on the web....

Anyhoo...this always makes me laugh:

Bush is all about the oil. Really? Where is all this oil we have gotten by invading Iraq? And if we don't have this oil YET, when are we going to get it? Where is Bush going to hide it? And how is he going to profit from it? Are we going to build drilling rigs off the coast of IRAQ? Is Exxon going to be constructing drilling sites in Iraq? Are we just going to hook up a hose to existing Iraqi oil wells and sipon off the stuff?

How exactly is it all about oil?

Then you state:

His family and Osama Bin Ladens family both own Haliburton which will make trillions of dollars off of war contracts if this war goes on a decade like George Bush hopes it does.Oh, so it's not about oil, it's about war contracts. Now I'm confused. Help me out. I thought it was all about oil. Now it's all about war contracts, and rebuilding.

Boy, for a dumb hick from Texas who did nothing but run former companies into the ground (including the Texas Rangers), you're making him look like a freakin' corporate genius.

Hey, looka that....another damn contradiction. First we're told Bush is a moron, and now he's an evil genius.

So, either it's all about the oil, or it's not, it's about war contracts.

And, Bush is a dumb ass who can't form a complete sentence, or not, he's an evil genius who has managed to make TRILLIONS for companies that he and his family own.

Sign me,

Perplexed. :confused:

[StartedAt18]

If everyone could watch the video why this war is going on, then you would understand. It's all about GOD Gold Oil Drugs.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8797525979024486145&q=the+truth+and+lies+of+9-11

The videos speak for themselves, I'm not going to type everything they say on there. I know they are long, that's why nobody is watching them but all the questions you asked are answered in the videos and worded better than I could word them.

You can watch OutFoxed which is a film that concentrates specifically on Fox News and the spinning of lies to support a corporate agenda.
http://www.question911.com/linksall.htm Scroll down about 60% of the page

[JustRalph]

Oh boy.........here we go again.............

Started at 18......... produce the interviews with the 7 that are still alive.........the BBC supposedly interviewing them has been denied several times by the BBC. The families of the terrorists initially said they were alive........but they can't produce them either.........now going on 5 years later.


You sir have bought it all, hook line and sinker. Damn shame

[StartedAt18]

Oh boy.........here we go again.............

Started at 18......... produce the interviews with the 7 that are still alive.........the BBC supposedly interviewing them has been denied several times by the BBC. The families of the terrorists initially said they were alive........but they can't produce them either.........now going on 5 years later.


You sir have bought it all, hook line and sinker. Damn shame

Well.. why not believe the families? You believe Bush when he says that there are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and that Saddam is a threat to the United States. right..... Bush is full of lies! He even lied about a fricken FISH! LMAO! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gAtkwLaoCU I mean.. where do the lies end!

Top 10 Reasonsthe 9/11 Hijackers Were Fake

#10 There names don't appear on any passenger manifest...that's not easy to arrange.

#9 None of them was subject to any autopsy

#8 5 to 7 have turned up alive in the middle east

#7 The FBI has not revised it's list of terrorist

#6 A special agent by the name of Flagg has explained that the FBI knew all the names of all 19 hijackers. Mohammad Atta left a piece of luggage that had a terrorist manual and a convient list of the19 hijackers. 5-7 hijackers are alive and well.

#5 They could not have flown the planes, their horrendous flying training backgrounds. The could barley get a cessna off the ground.

#4 The phones call could not have been made at the altitude these planes were flying at. Mark Bingham call his mom and says" HI mom this is mark bingham" Who calls someone and introduces themselves that way. And then says "mom this is mark , don't you believe me"

#3 During the trial of Al mousawi a tape was played allegedly from flight 93 and notice when passengers were going to break down the cabin with a drink cart. This was supposedly a cokpit voice recording, but cokpit voice recorders dont record voices in the passenger compartments.

#2 The last words by Hijackers ala akbar ali akbar and in arabic for god is great, according to a moslem memember of scholars for 9/11 truth the last words a devout moslem will say in immenent death is there is one god , there is but one god allah and mohammed is his prophet.

#1 sacarious mousawi trial he confessed to a plot to fly a plane into a whitehouse,a yr later now the the federal goverment is saying he had something to do with 9/11.

[JustRalph]

You are so full of it. I could go point by point on your bullshit, but it has been done here before. I can't believe another dipshit has posted a note about Bush lying about the Perch...........you guys kill me. You are so called "laughing your ass off about the Perch Story" when anybody who has any sense at all........is now laughing at you for buying it.....PM your buddy HCAP and ask him about the fish........Go away, HCAP junior............btw, was your CIA guy named Colonel Flagg?
http://www.bestcareanywhere.net/img/flagg.jpg


Well.. why not believe the families? You believe Bush when he says that there are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and that Saddam is a threat to the United States. right..... Bush is full of lies! He even lied about a fricken FISH! LMAO! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gAtkwLaoCU I mean.. where do the lies end!

Top 10 Reasonsthe 9/11 Hijackers Were Fake

#10 There names don't appear on any passenger manifest...that's not easy to arrange.

#9 None of them was subject to any autopsy

#8 5 to 7 have turned up alive in the middle east

#7 The FBI has not revised it's list of terrorist

#6 A special agent by the name of Flagg has explained that the FBI knew all the names of all 19 hijackers. Mohammad Atta left a piece of luggage that had a terrorist manual and a convient list of the19 hijackers. 5-7 hijackers are alive and well.

#5 They could not have flown the planes, their horrendous flying training backgrounds. The could barley get a cessna off the ground.

#4 The phones call could not have been made at the altitude these planes were flying at. Mark Bingham call his mom and says" HI mom this is mark bingham" Who calls someone and introduces themselves that way. And then says "mom this is mark , don't you believe me"

#3 During the trial of Al mousawi a tape was played allegedly from flight 93 and notice when passengers were going to break down the cabin with a drink cart. This was supposedly a cokpit voice recording, but cokpit voice recorders dont record voices in the passenger compartments.

#2 The last words by Hijackers ala akbar ali akbar and in arabic for god is great, according to a moslem memember of scholars for 9/11 truth the last words a devout moslem will say in immenent death is there is one god , there is but one god allah and mohammed is his prophet.

#1 sacarious mousawi trial he confessed to a plot to fly a plane into a whitehouse,a yr later now the the federal goverment is saying he had something to do with 9/11.

[StartedAt18]

Ok fine.. lets forget about mr. perch. Why don't you prove me wrong instead of calling me a "dipshit"

Bush lying about Saddam
http://www.youtube.com/v/0RVuxIFgXZg

Bush lying about Iraq
http://www.youtube.com/v/9Y12O_KpWto

Bush lying about Katrina
http://www.youtube.com/v/h8umoDbzdlo

Bush lying about 9/11 attack
http://www.youtube.com/v/Sm73wOuPL60

Rumsfeld lying about the where the weapons of mass destruction were
http://www.youtube.com/v/qktsdp5Fi8g

How Dick Cheney's Lies Got America Into Gulf War 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDkLqyiUCys
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1EDCqxVT7U

[OTM Al]

Alex Jones is a complete hack. All this stuff is a complete joke. I never though good ol' Cnl. Flagg was still around Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa!!!!!!!!!! You just made my day Ralph!

It is wrong to call Startedat18 a dipshit though guys. The proper phrase here is gullible and naive. Please quit trying to connect dots when there are no connections between them and if you must blame Bush for whats happening then please please start blaming him for his real actions rather than these flights of imagination!!!!!

[StartedAt18]

Alex Jones is a complete hack. All this stuff is a complete joke. I never though good ol' Cnl. Flagg was still around Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa!!!!!!!!!! You just made my day Ralph!

It is wrong to call Startedat18 a dipshit though guys. The proper phrase here is gullible and naive. Please quit trying to connect dots when there are no connections between them and if you must blame Bush for whats happening then please please start blaming him for his real actions rather than these flights of imagination!!!!!

lol Where is your proof that I am wrong and you are right? Calling people names doesn't mean you're correct. BTW Alex Jones predicted the attacks on the world trade center before they even happened. He must know something.. and here is the proof...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1222445722544874066&q=alex+jones+predicts

[StartedAt18]

I can see that I am outnumbered like a motherbeeper on this topic but nobody is showing evidence to prove me wrong. You guys discredit people by calling them names lol. If George Bush didn't lie about weapons of mass destruction then show me. That's basically what sold the war. Saddam is a threat to the USA is what he said. Am I wrong? Do you really believe a plane hit the pentagon? lol Here is evidence that a section of the Pentagon collapses approx. 30 mins after a 757 supposedly crashed into it.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rki0UGsw__s nobody got to see the footage of the wall being intact in the pentagon. Everyone was made to believe that the plane caused all that damage upon impact. yea.. right.. Do you really believe cell phone calls were made from the airplanes? I've had my verizon cell turned on on a flight and you better believe I had no signal. - If I am wrong about WTC 7 being a demolition and that there were bombs in the building, prove me wrong! Larry Silverstein said he gave the order to pull the building! He doesn't care.. he has an issurance policy of 3.5 billion on the WTC buildings. Somebody tell me how the towers were able to fall straight down.. BOTH OF THEM! Somebody tell me why there was thermate residue found at ground zero.. still burning hot weeks after the buildings came down. Thermate would have easily cut the steel support columns of the world trade center. - All those videos that I've showed of the president lying, am I lyring? You think those are fake? I mean.. you people don't want to believe that a government would do such a thing. It's almost like not believe in god, there are only a few people that don't believe in god and it just feels really weird being outnumbered.. so you might as well believe. It's almost like I"m talking to a whole bunch of foxnews reporters lmao. Here is evidence that George Bush spent 1.6 billion dollars on prepackaged news. "Armstrong Williams, the conservative commentator, had been unmasked as a paid administration promoter who received $186,000 from the Education Department to speak favorably about President Bush's No Child Left Behind law in broadcast appearances." Here is the evidence http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/13/AR2006021301897.html You're not going to learn the truth watching the news people. The news is rigged by corporations. Corporations run the united states. Watch the video OutFoxed if you ever get a chance. Ok my rant is done. I wouldn't be suprised if you people didn't read what I wrote and automatically assumed that I"m wrong without showing any proof. Or maybe I'll just get called another name, which I'm not going to stoop down to that level of immaturity and call someone a name back.

[PaceAdvantage]

The burden of proof is on YOU Startedat18, not us. And so far, you have offered no proof that I am aware of....

And calling you a dipshit was a wrong choice of words, but this topic hits very close to home for some, and people get tired of being pounded over the head with words like "truth" when in fact, you have nothing but theories.

What you have shown us DOES NOT, in any way, disprove the official account of what happened on 9/11. You may have provided alternate hypotheses on what MIGHT have happened, but you have not proved in any way that YOUR theory is the correct theory, nor have you proven that the offical theory is indeed false.

And YES, I have WATCHED all of the movies you have linked to (in fact, I watched the loose change movie months ago when Suff first brought it up). The only thing I haven't seen is the C-Span show, so don't go around assuming that those of us who disagree with you haven't seen all this supposed "proof" that is flying around out there.

I am a conspiracy buff in my limited spare time, and over the last 5 years, I've seen all the websites and read all the material which attempts to paint alternate scenarios as to why this happened.

[JustRalph]

ok, I revise my comments to "gullible and naive" I take back dipshit.

We have been over this crap in other threads.

Cell phones do work in airliners, depends on the altitude. I could go on ........but if you did a search on PA you would find we have discussed this stuff before. You come in here wailing about the perch and you just put yourself in a corner with a bunch of other losers. Btw, don't come back with some cell phone crap, I am done. I know more about it than you or you wouldn't be posting this crap. So stop, and go do some research. In fact lets stop the crap right off. I have a pilots certificate, and have used my cell from my own plane. I have been the first responder to two different aircraft crashes and have been on site for a total of 4. Large and small planes. The crap from these videos is just that, Crap! They dont' know what they are talking about. so lets end it.

[Snag]

And They all Said, Amen!

[Tom]

Startedat18 - they did not perfom any autopsies for a very good reason -




































There were no freakin bodies left to autopsy!

[rastajenk]

I have a question concerning this part of the conspiracy: "Larry Silverstein said he gave the order to pull the building! He doesn't care.. he has an insurance policy of 3.5 billion on the WTC buildings": Where are the insurance company leaders in all this? Don't they have an obligation to get to the truth and perhaps deny a fraudulent claim, or are they part of the conspiracy, too? How much hush money would it take to sweep 3.5 bill under the rug? The more people involved, the less likely it stays secret.

[JustRalph]

I have a question concerning this part of the conspiracy: "Larry Silverstein said he gave the order to pull the building! He doesn't care.. he has an insurance policy of 3.5 billion on the WTC buildings": Where are the insurance company leaders in all this? Don't they have an obligation to get to the truth and perhaps deny a fraudulent claim, or are they part of the conspiracy, too? How much hush money would it take to sweep 3.5 bill under the rug? The more people involved, the less likely it stays secret.

Great point. I am sure there was a meeting somewhere wherein a bunch of insurance types tried like hell to find a way to pin something on somebody. After looking at all the facts...... I am sure they decided to start writing checks. They realized there is no way someone could have pulled off a conspiracy of this magnitude.

[Suff]

I have a question concerning this part of the conspiracy: "Larry Silverstein said he gave the order to pull the building! He doesn't care.. he has an insurance policy of 3.5 billion on the WTC buildings": Where are the insurance company leaders in all this? Don't they have an obligation to get to the truth and perhaps deny a fraudulent claim, or are they part of the conspiracy, too? How much hush money would it take to sweep 3.5 bill under the rug? The more people involved, the less likely it stays secret.

One of the world's largest Insurers.....posting information about a controlled demolition of WTC #7? How dare they!! This has been discussed on Pace Advantage, and some guy on PA even has been to plane crash's....and made a call from a plane..! Dumb shit losers!!




Major WTC Insurance Company Questions Building 7 Collapse As Potential Fraud






A proposal to withhold approval from the Board of Directors for failure to investigate signs of insurance fraud on 9/11 has been published on the website of the Allianz Group, one of the world’s largest insurers, in preparation for its May 4th annual meeting.





(PRWEB) May 2, 2005 -- Allianz Group published a shareholder proposal on April 20th faulting management for ignoring signs of insurance fraud on 9/11/2001. Allianz carried a significant portion of the insurance coverage on the WTC, and stands to pay a corresponding portion of the $3.5 billion payout currently being litigated in New York. Management replied that it relied on official US government reports which made no mention of such evidence.

[JPinMaryland]

#9 None of them was subject to any autopsy

THen maybe nobody died on 9-11 because none of them were autoposied. So what is the big deal about 911? NO ONE DIED!

[Suff]

look... what's the issue??


Forget who ? Neo-cons, Bush, Israel Intelligence... forget all that nonsense ok.

Just stick with one thing. One simple question...

Are there facts put forward that don't add up. In my mind there are.

From there it does get conspiracy crazy..and tinfoilish..

But without question.... there are some strange things surrounding 9-11.

At the very least... they make one go ....:confused: hummmm?



Fact after fact ...and coincidence after coincidence.

Take for example the Pilot. This is a guy who worked at the Pentagon for 28 years. In the year 2000 he is part of a DOD team that does simulations on "what ifs".,,, His what if was "if a plane hit the Pentagon"...

After 28 years he retires and goes to work at American Airlines. His first year on the job...he is the Pilot of the supposed plane that hit the Pentagon...:eek:

You got all kinds of shit like this around 9-11.....

People asking about insurance...


The Port Authority sold much of the World Trade Center complex in July 2001 to a group of investors led by Larry Silverstein under 99-year lease agreements. The Silverstein interests are required to rebuild the destroyed property, and they also insured the property for $3.546 billion--more than twice the amount of insurance previously maintained on the property

[OTM Al]

Here is the original Popular Mechanics article debunking this crapola....

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=1&c=y

Of course since it was written by someone who's name means devil in Russian and it is owned by the notorious Hearst corporation, whose founder was a member of the dread Bohemian Grove cabal, I'm sure the facts contained therein are certainly all lies and coverups......

[JustRalph]

Great Post AL.

[OTM Al]

Oh god!!!! Even better!!!!! One of my internet heros Maddox has now attacked this issue on his wonderfully obnoxious (don't go here if easily offended) website The Best Page in the Universe.....(if you got some time you can also play "Spot the Pedophile" and see how he regards the artwork of children)

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons

If his views are not proof enough to you, he sites a very well researched rebuttal on the entire Loose Change video which can be linked to here

http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/LooseChangeGuide.html

It of course will not be proof enough for the true believers out there but any of you feel like you are getting pulled in on this one, have a good read

[Secretariat]

I can see that I am outnumbered like a motherbeeper on this topic but nobody is showing evidence to prove me wrong. You guys discredit people by calling them names lol. If George Bush didn't lie about weapons of mass destruction then show me. That's basically what sold the war. Saddam is a threat to the USA is what he said. Am I wrong? Do you really believe a plane hit the pentagon? lol Here is evidence that a section of the Pentagon collapses approx. 30 mins after a 757 supposedly crashed into it.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rki0UGsw__s nobody got to see the footage of the wall being intact in the pentagon. Everyone was made to believe that the plane caused all that damage upon impact. yea.. right.. Do you really believe cell phone calls were made from the airplanes? I've had my verizon cell turned on on a flight and you better believe I had no signal. - If I am wrong about WTC 7 being a demolition and that there were bombs in the building, prove me wrong! Larry Silverstein said he gave the order to pull the building! He doesn't care.. he has an issurance policy of 3.5 billion on the WTC buildings. Somebody tell me how the towers were able to fall straight down.. BOTH OF THEM! Somebody tell me why there was thermate residue found at ground zero.. still burning hot weeks after the buildings came down. Thermate would have easily cut the steel support columns of the world trade center. - All those videos that I've showed of the president lying, am I lyring? You think those are fake? I mean.. you people don't want to believe that a government would do such a thing. It's almost like not believe in god, there are only a few people that don't believe in god and it just feels really weird being outnumbered.. so you might as well believe. It's almost like I"m talking to a whole bunch of foxnews reporters lmao. Here is evidence that George Bush spent 1.6 billion dollars on prepackaged news. "Armstrong Williams, the conservative commentator, had been unmasked as a paid administration promoter who received $186,000 from the Education Department to speak favorably about President Bush's No Child Left Behind law in broadcast appearances." Here is the evidence http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/13/AR2006021301897.html You're not going to learn the truth watching the news people. The news is rigged by corporations. Corporations run the united states. Watch the video OutFoxed if you ever get a chance. Ok my rant is done. I wouldn't be suprised if you people didn't read what I wrote and automatically assumed that I"m wrong without showing any proof. Or maybe I'll just get called another name, which I'm not going to stoop down to that level of immaturity and call someone a name back.

Excellent post. Don't get discouraged. There are some diehard Republicans and Neocons here, and it is impossible to make them understand anything except Rovian philosophy, but rest assured others enjoy your contribution to the forum.

[PaceAdvantage]

Excellent post. Don't get discouraged. There are some diehard Republicans and Neocons here, and it is impossible to make them understand anything except Rovian philosophy, but rest assured others enjoy your contribution to the forum.

Dude, what are you talking about? I have no trouble UNDERSTANDING anything in this thread, or any of the conspiracy theories (no matter how silly any one of them might be) put forth. Why must you be so insulting and condescending?

Rovian philosophy? Who the hell said anything about Karl Rove in this thread? Seriously, what is your problem?

[Suff]

Oh god!!!! Even better!!!!! One of my internet heros Maddox has now attacked this issue on his wonderfully obnoxious (don't go here if easily offended) website The Best Page in the Universe.....(if you got some time you can also play "Spot the Pedophile" and see how he regards the artwork of children)

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons

If his views are not proof enough to you, he sites a very well researched rebuttal on the entire Loose Change video which can be linked to here

http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/LooseChangeGuide.html

It of course will not be proof enough for the true believers out there but any of you feel like you are getting pulled in on this one, have a good read



not much there.. folding dollars and a Link to Popular mechanics.

Al.. let me ask you a question... A very simple question.

Why were there no Hijackers names on the flight manifest? All 19 Al. Why were all 19 hijackers names not listed on the flight manifest?

[PaceAdvantage]

Why were there no Hijackers names on the flight manifest? All 19 Al. Why were all 19 hijackers names not listed on the flight manifest?

Are these original flight manifests, or were the names removed before release to the public?

[Suff]

Are these original flight manifests, or were the names removed before release to the public?

Plenty of sources...But I'll go generic. How's wikipedia?

http://sep11.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_September_11%2C_2001_attacks:_pl ane_passengers

Stand by for details...

[Suff]

http://911review.org/Sept11Wiki/PassengerList.shtml



) Waleed Alshehri, AA11, North Tower WTC. Name not on passenger list. Believed to be a pilot, though first reports said, his brother might have been a pilot, too. CNN reported (-> Hijackers, alive) on him: Possible confused identity with the son of a Saudi Arabian diplomat

2) Mohammad Atta (http://www.911review.org/Sept11Wiki/Atta,Mohammad.shtml), AA 11, North Tower WTC Name not on passenger list. Believed to be the pilot of that plane. Instead of thinking about committing suicide only, he officially applied for a student visa, together with Marwan Al-Shehhi (http://www.911review.org/Sept11Wiki/Al-Shehhi,Marwan.shtml). These visas arrived after a "bureaucratic backlog" in March 2001 at Al-Shehhis flight school Huffmann Aviation by Rudi Dekkers. Author Daniel Hopsinker linked Huffmann Aviation to the CIA connected company For odd reasons an AP story said, "On the form, filled out by a Huffman assistant, Atta's name is spelled "Mohomed." Due to local reports Dekkers assistant who filled these visas out, Nicole Antini, was just then being sexually harassed by Rudi Dekkers, her beefy middle-aged boss, according to a lawsuit for sexual harassment which Dekker's was forced to settle recently for an undisclosed sum. In 2001, the Mossad observed various muslim students, who trained at military flight schools, including Mohammad Atta (http://www.911review.org/Sept11Wiki/Atta,Mohammad.shtml) and warned the CIA twice of a possible terrorist attack. Leaked to the european press in late 2002, early 2003, it came out, that Mohammad Atta was even observed since 1998 by german intelligence, regarding his contacts (See Mamoun Darkanzali (http://www.911review.org/Sept11Wiki/Darkanzali,Mamoun.shtml)). This fits with other articles on Darkanzali, who was in contact with some spanish suspects, which telephone had been tapped. In another article it was reported, that the CIA tried to hire Darkanzali as an informant


3) Hani Hanjour (http://www.911review.org/Sept11Wiki/Hanjour,Hani.shtml), AA77, Pentagon Name not on passenger list. Believed to be the pilot of that plane. It was said, he held a commercial pilot's license that expired in October, 1999. It was stated, that Lotfi Raissi was his flying teacher. But Raissi,who was arrested in September 2001 in United Kingdom, was plead unguilty in February 2002 and is free again. 4) Marwan Al-Shehhi (http://www.911review.org/Sept11Wiki/Al-Shehhi,Marwan.shtml), UA 175, South Tower WTC. Name not on passenger list. Believed to be the pilot of that plane. Instead of thinking about committing suicide only, he officially applied for a student visa. These visas arrived after a "bureaucratic backlog" in March 2001 at Al-Shehhis flight school Huffmann Aviation. Author Daniel Hopsicker linked Huffmann Aviation (->) to a CIA connected company

5) Saeed Alghamdi (http://www.911review.org/Sept11Wiki/Alghamdi,Saeed.shtml), UA93, Pennsylvannia Name not on passenger list. CNN reported (-> Hijackers, alive) on him: "Identity is disputed" The real Saeed Alghamdi said to newspaper Asharq Al Awsat, he is still alive and pilot for Saudi Airlines. Saudi Airlines said once it was considering legal action against the FBI for seriously damaging its reputation and that of its pilots.

6) Ahmad Ibrahim A. Al Haznawi, UA93, Pennsylvannia Name not on passenger list.

7) Ahmed Alnami UA93, Pennsylvannia Name not on passenger list. Father Abdullah Alnami said to "20/20" (Barbara Walters) his son left home for the first time in his life -- six months before the attacks, and believes, he is innocent. Another Abdullah Alnami said (before the photos had been released!), he is administrative supervisor with Saudi Arabian Airlines and was in Riyadh when the terrorists struck.

8) Ziad Samir Jarrah, UA93, Pennsylvannia Name not on passenger list. Believed to be the pilot of that plane.

9) Fayez Rashid Ahmed Hassan Al Qadi Banihammad, UA 175, South Tower WTC. Name not on passenger list.

10) Wail M. Alshehri, , AA11, North Tower WTC. Name not on passenger list. CNN reported (-> Hijackers, alive) on him: Possible confused identity with the son of a Saudi Arabian diplomat Father thinks, he and his brother are innocent.

11) Satam M.A. Al Suqami, AA11, North Tower WTC Name not on passenger list.

12) Abdulaziz Alomari, AA11, North Tower WTC Name not on passenger list. CNN reported (-> Hijackers, alive) on Alomari: "Identity is in dispute" The real Abdulaziz Alomari is alive and an engineer with Saudi Telecoms and claims, his passport was once stolen in Denver. Another Abdulaziz Al Omari is pilot for Saudi Arabian Airlines.

13) Khalid Almihdhar, AA77, Pentagon Name not on passenger list. CNN reported (-> Hijackers, alive) on him: "May be an assumed name; there are reports he is still alive" The real Khalid Al Midhar in fact said, he is alive.

14) Majed Moqed, AA77, Pentagon Name not on passenger list.

15) Nawaf Alhazmi,AA77, Pentagon Name not on passenger list.

16) Salem Alhazmi, AA77, Pentagon Name not on passenger list. CNN reported (-> Hijackers, alive) on him: "May be a a stolen identity"

The real Al-Hamzi is 26. In September 2001 he had just returned to work at a petrochemical complex in the industrial eastern city of Yanbou.

17) Ahmed Alghamdi, UA 175, South Tower WTC. Name not on passenger list. CNN reported (-> Hijackers, alive) on him: "Lost his driver's license in 1995 for failing to pay a traffic fine, ...Bought plane ticket on August 29 through the Internet using a Mailboxes Etc. address"

18) Hamza Alghamdi, UA 175, South Tower WTC. Name not on passenger list.

19) Mohand Alshehri, UA 175, South Tower WTC. Name not on passenger list. CNN reported (-> Hijackers, alive) on Alsheri: "Saudi Embassy has named Alshehri as a victim of mistaken identity" It is claimed, that he communicated with other hijack plotters. He once asked to use the Internet at a public library in Delray Beach, Florida.

[StartedAt18]

Here is the original Popular Mechanics article debunking this crapola....

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=1&c=y

Of course since it was written by someone who's name means devil in Russian and it is owned by the notorious Hearst corporation, whose founder was a member of the dread Bohemian Grove cabal, I'm sure the facts contained therein are certainly all lies and coverups......


Yea that article covers "Theories" I'm talking about facts.
9/11 - New World Order - Secret Societies - Globalization

*WTC 7
-Larry Silverstein the controller of the destroyed WTC complex, stated plainly in a PBS documentary that he and the FDNY decided jointly to demolish the Solomon Bros. building, or WTC 7, late in the afternoon of Tuesday, Sept. 11, 2001.
"I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse."
....I mean seriously? how did this building already have bombs perfectly in place for a demolition? Really.. I don't think anyone could tell me that it wasn't a demoltion.

*Put Options
On American Airlines.

*Warnings
-Egyptian President Mubarak through his intelligence services warns the US that bin Laden's Islamic terrorist network is threatening to kill Bush and other G8 leaders at their July economic summit meeting in Italy.
http://www.wanttoknow.info/010926nytimes New York Times,

-Jordanian intelligence agents go to Washington to warn that a major attack is planned inside the US and that aircraft will be used. Christian Science Monitor calls the story "confidently authenticated" even though Jordan later backs away from it.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0523/p11s01-coop.html

-Israel warns US of an imminent Al Qaeda attack
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,53065,00.html

-President Bush is warned by US intelligence that bin Laden might be planning to hijack commercial airliners. The White House waits eight months after 9/11 to reveal this fact.
http://www.wanttoknow.info/020516nytimes New York Times, 5/16/02



*Failure to Defend the Skies
http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01a.pdf
There were standing orders to the military as to how to respond to hijackings over United States territory. They were to be scrambled immediately upon notification from the FAA. The June 1, 2001 document changed those policies:


"b. Support.

When notified that military assistance is needed in
conjunction with an aircraft piracy (hijacking) emergency,
the DDO, NMCC, will:

(1) Determine whether or not the assistance needed is reasonably available from police or commercial sources. If not, the DDO, NMCC, will notify the appropriate unified command or NORAD to determine if suitable assets are available and will forward the request to the Secretary of Defense for approval in accordance with DODD 3025.15, paragraph D.7 (reference d)."

Why, during the summer of 2001, amidst the most widespread flood of intelligence on immanent terrorist hijackings in US history, did Donald Rumsfeld suddenly require his approval to scramble fighters in the event of a hijacking?


In referring to the events on the morning of 9/11, Donald Rumsfeld's claims he was unaware of any threats to the Pentagon -- the building where he was located during the September 11th attacks -- until an aircraft crashed into the side of it, and he ran out "into the smoke" to see if it might be "a bomb? I had no idea." (ABC News This Week, Interview 9/16/01).

*Give me a break...
In what the government describes as a bizarre coincidence, a US intelligence agency (the National Reconnaissance Office or NRO) was all set for an exercise at 9 AM on September 11th in which an aircraft would crash into one of its buildings near Washington, DC. Same thing happened in london! They were running an exercise that had to do with busess being blown up! ridiculous.
http://www.boston.com/news/packages/sept11/anniversary/wire_stories/0903_plane_exercise.htm

*Osama's Family Not Questioned
Members of bin Laden's family are driven or flown under FBI supervision to a secret assembly point in Texas and then to Washington, where they leave the country on a private plane when airports reopen three days after the attacks.

*LOL
Former president Bush is with a brother of Osama bin Laden at a Carlyle business conference. The conference is interrupted the next day by the attacks.
http://www.wanttoknow.info/030316post

*Al Qaeda-Hussein Link is Dismissed
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47812-2004Jun16.html


*If you want to know more.. read yourself.

Giuliani was warned, Clinton lets Osama escape, Firefighters say that there were bombs in the buildings,Bin Laden The CIA Asset etc..
http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html#fema

All the news articles that were written warning us about 9/11 and articles showing evidence that it was a cover up.
http://www.wanttoknow.info/9-11cover-up10pg

[rrpic6]

.


[QUOTE=PaceAdvantage]And YES, I have WATCHED all of the movies you have linked to (in fact, I watched the loose change movie months ago when Suff first brought it up). The only thing I haven't seen is the C-Span show, so don't go around assuming that those of us who disagree with you haven't seen all this supposed "proof" that is flying around out there.[QUOTE]

My ego has to be fed. I started the thread, "Has anyone seen this before?", on 03/23/06. It was the link to the loose change video. I'm glad to see startedat18 so enthused about this conspiracy. You are not alone 18. Typical response from the Rush/ditto-heads/Bushies is that anyone that questions the Administration is either a wacko or a traitor seems to apply.

[lsbets]

Are these original flight manifests, or were the names removed before release to the public?

These are not the flight manifests, which I would be interested in seeing, but they are a list put out by CNN of the victims on board the planes on 9/11. To most people, victims would not include the hijackers. Follow the link. It will take you to this address:

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/AA11.victims.html

Notice the url lists the page name as aa11.victims.

Now if anyone has the flight manifest from American Airlines, I would be interested in seeing it, but please don't show me a list of victims from CNN and tell me that's the flight manifest.

[Tom]

We have video of some of the death pilots at the security checkpoint that morning. We have cell phone calls from people ON THE PLANES.

rrpic - this has nothing to do with questioning the Bush administration - I am questiong the sanity of many people - especially HERE. I would be as dead set that this conspircacy stuff is utter nonsense if it were Clinton. This is not politics - it is reality, and I think a few people here have strayed a wee bit away from it.

Here are facts -

>The aiplanes were hijacked by mulsem men - this has been verified by the passengers- we have video of some of them going through security - and later, it was learned, that several of the names ON THE PASSENGER LISTS were also on the terror watch, do-not-flly list, but were received too late to stop them.

> The planes flew into the WT towers - we saw that happen.

> the towers collapsed - we saw that happen

> the guy who DESIGNED the towers viewed video of the collapses and explained how and why they happened

[StartedAt18]

We have video of some of the death pilots at the security checkpoint that morning. We have cell phone calls from people ON THE PLANES.


Flight 93 Cell phone calls right here.

CALL A1: A man claiming to be Tom Burnett called his wife Deena in San Ramon, CA around 9:20 to Deena's best recollection:

Deena: "Are you alright?"

Caller: "No. I'm on United Flight 93 from Newark to San Francisco. The plane was hijacked. We are in the air. They've already knifed a guy. There is a bomb on board. Call the FBI."

CALL B: Just before 9:30 am, a man claiming to be Jeremy Glick called Lyz Glick, who was visiting in-laws in the Catskills of New York state. The phone was answered by Glick's mother-in-law, JoAnne Makely:

JoAnne: "Jeremy. Thank God. We're so worried."

Caller: "It's bad news. Is Liz there?"

The caller went on to describe Arabic-looking hijackers wearing red headbands and carrying knives. One had told the passengers he had a bomb. The caller asked if it was true that planes had been crashed into the World Trade Center. She confirmed this. The caller mentioned that another passenger had heard the news on his/her cell phone.

CALL A2: The man claiming to be Tom Burnett called Deena Burnett again around 9:30 am. As Deena later described his call, "He didn't sound frightened, but he was speaking faster than he normally would." He told her there were hijackers in the cockpit.

Deena: "A lot of planes have been hijacked, but they don't know how many."

Caller: "You've got to be kidding."

Deena: "No."

Caller: "Were they commercial planes or airliners?"

Deena: "I don't know."

Caller: "Okay. I've got to go."

CALL C: A man claiming to be Mark Brigham called Brigham's sister-in-law, Cathy Hoglan, who was being visited by Brigham's mother, Alice. Cathy took the call and handed the phone to Alice with the remark, "Alice, talk to Mark. He's been hijacked."

Caller: "Mom? This is Mark Brigham."

Caller: "I want you to know that I love you. I'm on a flight from Newark to San Francisco and there are three guys who have taken over the plane and they say they have a bomb."

Alice: "Who are these guys?

Caller: (after a pause) "You believe me, don't you?

Caller: "Yes, Mark. I believe you. But who are these guys?

(After another pause the line went dead.)

CALL D: A man claiming to be Todd Beamer on a United Airlines airfone had some trouble getting through to anyone but the Verizon customer service center, where the operator relayed the call to Verizon supervisor, Lisa Jefferson at 9:45 am. (Verizon is a large communications company that has the contract for airfones on United airlines equipment.) The man told Jefferson that the plane had been hijacked, that he could see three hijackers armed with knives, one of them claiming to have a bomb. He described how the passengers had been herded to the rear of the aircraft, guarded by the one with the bomb. He asked the supervisor to call the Beamer family on his behalf.

Caller: "Oh! We're going down. (pause) No. We're okay. I think we're turning around." (It was approximately around this time that the flight, then passing near Cleveland, made a hard left toward Washington, DC.)

CALL A3: The man claiming to be Tom Burnett called Deena Burnett again.

Deena: "They're taking airplanes and hitting landmarks all up and down the east coast."

Caller: "Okay. We're going to do something. I'll call you back."

CALL F1: At 9:47, the answering machine of Lorne Lyles recorded a call that he thought was from his wife, CeeCee. The woman could be heard praying for herself, her family, and even for the souls of the hijackers.

CALL B (cont'd.) State police, talking to Jeremy Glick's mother-in-law, asked her to relay a question to Jeremy. Did he know where his plane was? He didn't know, but said they had changed direction.

Caller: "I need you to be happy and I will respect any decisions that you make."

He told Ms Lyles that the passengers were about to take a vote on whether to take back the aircraft. Should they try?

Lyz: "Honey, you need to do it." They spoke of weapons. The caller joked.

Caller: "I have my butter knife from breakfast."

CALL G: About this time, Phil Bradshaw, husband of flight attendant Sandy Bradshaw, received a phone call from a woman who identified herself as his wife.

Caller: "Have you heard what's going on? My flight has been hijacked. My flight has been hijacked by three guys with knives.

Phil asked her who was flying the plane.

Caller: "I don't know who's flying the plane or where we are. I see a river."

Bradshaw: "Be safe and come home soon."

The caller then explained that she had to go. She planned to prepare boiling water in the galley -- to pour on the hijackers.

CALL H: Sometime after 9:30, Fred Fiumano received a call from someone claiming to be his friend, Marion Britton. The caller was crying, stating that the plane had been hijacked and that two passengers had already been killed. Fiumano tried to console his friend, stating that the hijackers were probably going to take her for a ride. "You'll be alright."

CALL I: Jack Grandcolas in San Rafael, CA, received a call from a woman claiming to be Lauren Catuzzi Grandcolas, his wife. The message, as recorded on his answering machine, was short:

Caller: "Sweetie, pick up the phone if you can hear me. (pause) Okay, I love you. There's a little problem with the plane. I'm fine and comfortable for now..."

She asked Jack to pass along her love for everyone, then passed the airfone to her seat-mate.

Caller: "Now you call your people."

CALL J: Esther Heymann received a call from a woman claiming to be her stepdaughter, Honor Elizabeth Wainio, also Grandcolas' seat-mate.

Caller: "Mom, we're being hijacked. I just called to say good bye."

Heymann: "Elizabeth, we don't know how this is going to turn out. I've got my arms around you."

Wainio said she could feel them.

Heymann: "Let's look out at that beautiful blue sky. Let's be here in the moment. Let's do some deep breathing together." (pause)

Caller: "It hurts me that it's going to be so much harder for you than it is for me."

CALL A4: Once again, just before 10:00 am, Deena Burnett received a fourth phone call.

Caller: "A group of us are going to do something."

Deena: "No, Tom. Just sit down and don't draw attention to yourself."

Caller: "Deena, if they're going to crash the plane into the ground, we have to do something. We can't wait for the authorities. We have to do something now."

Caller: "Pray. Just pray, Deena. We're going to do something."

CALL D (cont'd): The caller who had identified himself as Todd Beamer appears to have remained connected with Lisa Jefferson, the Verizon supervisor, almost to the end of the flight. At this point the caller was reciting the 23rd Psalm from the Bible

CALL F2: The caller identifying herself as CeeCee Lyles finally got through to Lorne Lyles.

Caller: "Babe, my plane's been hijacked."

Lyles: "Huh? Stop joking.

Caller: "No Babe, I wouldn't joke like that. I love you. Tell the boys I love them."

As the couple prayed together, Lorne heard sounds that he would later interpret as passengers preparing a counterattack.

Caller: They're going to force their way into the cockpit."

CALL D (cont'd): Having finished his prayer session with Lisa Jefferson, the caller claiming to be Todd Beamer left the phone connected. Jefferson recalls hearing the now famous rallying cry.

Caller: "Are you guys ready? Let's roll."

CALL J (cont'd): Esther Heymann, who believed herself to be talking with her step daughter, heard her last words.

Caller: I need to go. They're getting ready to break into the cockpit. I love you. Goodbye."

CALL G (cont'd): Phil Bradshaw heard his caller's last words to him.

Caller: "Everyone's running to first class. I've got to go. Bye."

CALL F2 (cont'd): Lorne Lyles recalls hearing the last moments of Flight 93.

Caller: (screams) "They're doing it! They're doing it! They're doing it!

The caller screamed again, said something he couldn't hear, then the line went dead.


> The planes flew into the WT towers - we saw that happen.

> the towers collapsed - we saw that happen

> the guy who DESIGNED the towers viewed video of the collapses and explained how and why they happened


Obviously the whole world watched the Towers collapse.. the question is how? Why isn't it demoltion style? Your telling me that a plane hits the towers and doesn't even break a chunk off but they fall straight to the ground in 10 seconds? It doesn't fall down little by little, they fall perfect and smoothly just like melted ice cream falling from a cone! Are you kidding? Those towers were made to withstand anything! 170 year storm. The only possible thing to bring them down was BOMBS!

This is their pathetic excuse.

"The report concludes that the fireproofing on the Twin Towers' steel infrastructures was blown off by the initial impact of the planes and that, if this had not occurred, the towers would likely have remained standing. The fires weakened the trusses supporting the floors, making the floors sag. The sagging floors pulled on the exterior steel columns to the point where exterior columns bowed inward. With the damage to the core columns, the buckling exterior columns could no longer support the buildings, causing them to collapse."


"The NIST is a federal technology agency that works with industry to develop and apply technology"

NIST said the towers fell because the planes shook fireproofing loose from the steel superstructure, and the fire heated the floor-supporting trusses so much that they pulled in on support columns that were already holding more than their regular load. But NIST's computer simulation stops at the point the collapse begins, and does not document exactly how the rest of the buildings crumbled in 10 seconds.

Before the WTC fell, everyone heard bombs! I have video of a reporters tripod shaking 9 seconds before the building collapsed. You didn't see the bombs exploding outward from the building in the videos? The towers were "pulled" just like building 7.



The aiplanes were hijacked by mulsem men - this has been verified by the passengers- we have video of some of them going through security - and later, it was learned, that several of the names ON THE PASSENGER LISTS were also on the terror watch, do-not-flly list, but were received too late to stop them.

Lol.. how do you know that they were muslim? Oh that's right.. they were able to find one of their passports made of paper that survived at ground zero. right.. Especially with that Thermate at the bottom that's over 1000 degrees that didn't come from any airplane.

The FBI the so called hijackers didn't leave any evidence.
"The hijackers also left no paper trail. In our investigation, we have not uncovered a single piece of paper – either here in the U.S. or in the treasure trove of information that has turned up in Afghanistan and elsewhere – that mentioned any aspect of the September 11th plot. The hijackers had no computers, no laptops, no storage media of any kind. They used hundreds of different pay phones and cell phones, often with prepaid calling cards that are extremely difficult to trace. And they made sure that all the money sent to them to fund their attacks was wired in small amounts to avoid detection."
http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/speeches/speech041902.htm
How do they even know that they used prepaid calling cards?

Did you guys see the video of how dick cheney got us into gulf war 1?
give it 5 seconds to show the footage. Halliburton was doing business with Iraq while the war was going on! And being the CEO he says he had no idea.. right... all the money he was making but he had no idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDkLqyiUCys
Fahrenheit 9/11 - Halliburton makin that money
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZargEUffzg




Iraq Pre-War Intelligence - Lawrence Wilkerson interview *Colon Powells chief of starr*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CBKFS5SFlU

[OTM Al]

So I'm a Rovian Neo-con now huh? Guess I'm a man of a thousand faces as I think Bush is going to go down as one of the worst presidents we have ever had, but..........................Hey Lefty I guess we're pals now!!!! :)

All you conspiracy theorists do is scream for facts but when the facts are there you simply say that they are lies fabricated to cover up the truth. Let's face it. You don't want the truth, you want a grandiose mystery which you are in the center of to solve and save the world. That's cool. I used to play games like that when I was 8 and they were a lot of fun. I will say 2 things to you that I am deadly serious about though.

1. People died. Over 2700. This crap shows absolutely no respect for that. None.

2. Bush and his cronies have tried to pull some pretty repulsive things after this event. You obviously hate the man, so why not blame him for the tangible things he has done rather than this crap?

[Secretariat]

I am curious for some explanations on this.

1. How did cell phone calls get through from the planes. I've also tried to call from a plane and could get nothing.

2. I don't understand WTC 7 demolition at all. The insurance issue and the new ownership issue.

3. How did GW know that two towers had been hit when only the first had actually been hit? Why did he fight so hard to not have a 911 commission initially?

4. Why was Norad so not ready that day? How would the hijackers have known to pick that day? Luck?

5. Why did firemen say there were bombs in the building?

6. Why were Israelis dressed like Arabs that day? Picked up and then released? Early Halloween?

There are many other issues. I don't blame anyone for questioning, and I don't blame anyone for defending the official story. Kennedy's assasination had questions for decades, and to my mind some are still a bit bizarre such as why Jack Ruby suddenly decides to turn patriot, or Oswlt's ties to the Soviet Union and his visit to Mexico and his claim to be a patsy, and why his interrogation tape has never been released to the public, and why so many non-corrorborating witnesses suddenly died. I'm not claiming a conspiracy there, but that there were still a lot of unanswered questions. Here, the people raising questions are not dishonoring the people who died in those towers or quesitoning those who saw it (btw..I was in NYC that day, and my brother had been at the WTC the day before at a conference) ...they are just curious, and would like to have some answers. The 911 Commission did an OK job, but I would have liked to see non-political types on that committee, like firemen, pilots, rescue workers, air traffic controllers, scientists, physicists, etc. People who participated and would understand the logistics a bit more. But it ended up being politicians with an agenda which makes it all the more difficult -- as it was with the Warren Commission. Hence, conspiracy theories emerge when information is shrouded in secrecy and the so-called classified information label is used to prevent the public from knowing. The fact that the President and Vice President coudl not even commit to a public testimony is one such indication.

Some other interesting quesitons.

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/analysis/mysteries.html

[Secretariat]

For an investigator of a criminal airplane crash, the first source of inquiry would be to study the list of passengers (or flight manifest). On the base of such a list, further investigation becomes possible, such as tracing the passengers' addresses, contacting their families, tracing their credit card payments, etc. Shortly after 9/11, mass media began publishing lists of the passengers who crashed with the four planes. At least four variations of one such list (the passengers of AA 11) have been identified by Gerard Holmgren (see http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/05/288505.shtml) , each with differing numbers of passengers and partly different names. No official explanation was provided for these variations. None of these published lists include Arab names. Yet the FBI and the airlines have until this day refused to publish the original passenger lists, which presumably were the source for these multiple lists published by the media as well as the source for their own claims on the hijackers' identities. An FBI press officer who declined to identify herself, told the author in a telephone conversation on July 23, 2004 that the FBI is not required to publish the passenger lists and did not explain why the FBI would not do so. In spite of the evidential importance of the original passenger lists, the Commission of Inquiry has neither published these lists nor indicated why these lists have not been published. The primary source for attributing the 9/11 atrocities to persons with Arab-looking names has thus remained secret.

Further questions have arisen regarding the number and identities of the alleged hijackers. On 13 September 2001, FBI Director Robert Mueller was reported in the press to have said that "18 hijackers were on the four planes". Yet a few days later that number grew to 19. If the passenger lists had been the source for the former statement, how could the number suddenly increase on the base of the same lists? What person was added to the list, by whom and why? Another perplexing question regarding these lists is the fact that between five and seven alleged hijackers have been reported alive by main media, including the BBC and the New York Times. This evidence was not denied by the FBI, who demonstrated, however, little inclination to interview these "living" suicide-bombers and their families and proffered an explanation to this anomaly as caused by "stolen identities" or because Arab names are prone to misspelling. Yet the FBI maintained the original names and photographs of the alleged hijackers on its website, including of those who are currently living. On November 3, 2001, FBI Director Robert Mueller said that "investigators have established the true identities of all 19 of the Sept. 11 hijackers" (Karen Gullo, AP writer, emphasis added). Yet, attributing mass murder to 19 named individuals - who cannot defend themselves - without proving their culpability, is a case of gross defamation as well as an unconscionable attack on the honor of the families of these individuals. The very attribution of the deeds to Arabs, the identity of whom are not even proved, represents also a form of racial incitement.

The import of this single issue (the flight manifests) is far greater than it appears. The refusal to publish the flight manifests cannot be explained by security considerations. The names of the dead passengers were published shortly after the attacks. The names and photographs of the alleged hijackers appear prominently on the FBI's website and have been cited innumerable times by the media and in books. The reluctance of the FBI to publish these passenger lists suggests that they simply do not include the names of the alleged perpetrators. Should no Arab names have appeared on the flight manifests, it would suggest that the world community has been served with a monumental lie and that the perpetrators may be neither Arabs nor Muslims. It is therefore of crucial importance that these lists be published and the various anomalies surrounding the identities of the perpetrators be elucidated.

[Secretariat]

Which leaves these questions..

1 If the FBI had the manifests and the hijackers are listed...how did they name people who are still alive? How did they get the numbers wrong?

2. Why won't the FBI release the manfiest since all the victims have already been published, and all the hijackers have been published?

3. Why do third party posts not list the hijackers?

4. Are the airlines restricted from publishing these manfests?

5. Bottom line - if the FBI is not hiding anything, it appears by their refusal to publish even the simplest of documents that they are in fact hiding a huge piece of the puzzle. This is what lends credence to conspiracy theories.

[OTM Al]

Since I've been ranting against this whole things here are some answers to your questions

1. With cell phones on planes it depends where you are. Out here around NYC there are tons of transmitting towers or whatever you call those antennas that cell phones use, so much easier to make it work. Also, cell phones 5 years ago transmitted a much stronger signal than they do now. This is simply due to upgrades in technology and possibly the fears of cancer that went around. Cell phones absolutely will transmit from a plane. This is why they tell you not to use them as those transmissions can interfere with the planes transmissions etc. On a personal note I hope they remain banned on planes as I really hate how people use and abuse them.....but back to subject at hand...

2. People claim that WTC 7 was blown up. Several reasons given....money in basement, some sort of stock swindle, pick your own reason here. The building managed to stand for several hours before it fell. The conspiracy theorist (CT from here on) claims that this building wasn't damaged and was blown up. This is simply not true. The building sustained heavy damage to its lower section due to debris hits from the collapse of the other towers. It has also been on fire for some time from the initial impacts. Fire + stuctural damage = collapse. Architects also think the collapse may have been hastened by a structural design in load bearing which was damaged badly by the debris.

As to the insurance issue, Larry Silverstein had been in negotiations to take over the WTC site for a very long time. This deal was finally completed not a terrible long time (June or July if I remember right, but would need to look up to be sure) before the terrorist act. Yes, he did take out quite a bit of insurance. If you remember the towers had been attacked in 1993 as well, so I would call this prudent. Also, there is always risk of fire. He actually wanted to insure them for quite a bit more than he did. I see nothing sinister here, just straight solid business decisions

3. I don't know what quote you are referring to here, but you must remember people referred to the WTC regularly as the twin towers or the two towers. So I see nothing sinister about this exchange...
"Sir, the World Trade Center has been struck by an airplane."
"The two towers have been hit?"

Thats just a very common way the site was referrd to.

4. NORAD was charged with protecting the US from air attacks coming from outside our borders. Their radar/satellites etc are turned outward, not inward. Simply put, the threat they were charged with protecting us from was not one that launched from inside the US.

5. I believe the firemen reported explosions that sounded like bombs not that there were bombs going off. The CTers are great at changing one word in a statement to make it sound like something completely different. Explosions are pretty common in fires. The blasts from above (my speculation here) would have echoed down into the lower levels through the elevator shafts (there were a hell of a lot of elevators in those buildings).

6. This sort of stuff disgusts me. This is racist crap trying to put the whole thing up as a Jewish conspiracy. It simply didn't happen.

You are right. The government always seems to want to hide things and yes they did hide things here. The wanted to hide the names of diplomats, primarily Saudi, who may have been linked to the terrorists. They wanted to hide info on funding. I'm sure there were other things as well. I believe the intention was good here, though terribly misguided. They wanted to catch all those involved without tipping them off that we were coming for them, but hey, its not like they hadn't figured that one out on their own....

I do think this crap dishonors those people. These "movie makers" go as far to say that all the people on the planes were actually rounded up onto one plane and then killed by our government. If that is not dishonoring them I don't know what is. Its saying their deaths and indeed there last hours of life were a complete lie. It dishonors the police and firemen who died in the line of duty by saying that their own government, who they were in service to, killed them out of greed.

[Lefty]

otmal, always glad to make new friends. lol.
Well, gues the oil GW stole from Iraq during this war and the money he makes his oil pals pay him isn;'t enough. He pulled of the WTC collapse to get all that money too.
Don't know how he's keeping this quiet though, cause every move, even the secret ones, get right to the NY Times. Where's the Times with this story of the Century?

[Tom]

OK, you guys are right.
Now, what arae you going to do about it?
YOUR government attacked and killed thousand sof people for sinister reasos.
What are you going to do about it?

Who amoung you will intitiate the class action lawsuit?
Who amoung you will run for president on this platform?
Who amoung you will go to the families of the victims and personally verify the phone call?


Sec - cell phones will work in airplanes. Do you thinkg all the surviving family memebers are part of this too?

18 - obviously YOU have not done any reading or investigating. "Pancaking" is nothing new, and, as I posted, the DESIGNER of the WTC viewed the collpases and verifed that is what happened. The scenario YOU describe was not possible wtih that construction. And if you look at the vieas, the collapses are first evident in the striken areas - which means the so called bombs would have had to be places where the planes hit - not bloody likely.

[PaceAdvantage]

Typical response from the Rush/ditto-heads/Bushies is that anyone that questions the Administration is either a wacko or a traitor seems to apply.

Thank you, once again, for adding absolutely nothing to a thread, except more inaccuracy.

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm getting so tired of this, but I'll go through it again (my replies in bold):

1. How did cell phone calls get through from the planes. I've also tried to call from a plane and could get nothing.

Although far from perfect at the time, it is widely known that cell phones were capable of connecting while in flight. It was not an impossible task to make a cell phone call from the air in 2001.

2. I don't understand WTC 7 demolition at all. The insurance issue and the new ownership issue.

I agree that the collapse of WTC7 deserves plenty of scrutiny.

3. How did GW know that two towers had been hit when only the first had actually been hit? Why did he fight so hard to not have a 911 commission initially?

Are you going to sit here and seriously tell me you are putting stock into anything GWB says? You of all people? Don't you tell us all the time what a dope he is, and isn't off-topic filled with tons of his verbal gaffes? But NOW, we are supposed to hang on his every word? Please, don't make me laugh.

4. Why was Norad so not ready that day? How would the hijackers have known to pick that day? Luck?

Define "so not ready." I believe they got to one of the planes over Pennsylvania, even though they won't admit it....

5. Why did firemen say there were bombs in the building?

They said they heard what they thought were bombs or explosions, they did not actually report SEEING live explosives ready to go off. Big difference. I'm sure with all the fire and carnage going on due to the impact of the airliners, PLENTY OF STUFF was EXPLODING (natural gas, combustible materials, etc. etc.) In the chaos, I'm sure I would report hearing explosions or bombs. Doesn't make it true.

6. Why were Israelis dressed like Arabs that day? Picked up and then released? Early Halloween?

The accuracy of this story hasn't been all that well confirmed, at least at the time I last read about it....there are much better examples of "evidence" that you could have given besides the infamous Israeli cross-dressers.

[Suff]

.

4. Why was Norad so not ready that day? How would the hijackers have known to pick that day? Luck?

Define "so not ready." I believe they got to one of the planes over Pennsylvania, even though they won't admit it....

.

Actually ............from Todays WAPO


For more than two years after the attacks, officials with NORAD and the FAA provided inaccurate information about the response to the hijackings in testimony and media appearances. Authorities suggested that U.S. air defenses had reacted quickly, that jets had been scrambled in response to the last two hijackings and that fighters were prepared to shoot down United Airlines Flight 93 if it threatened Washington.
In fact, the commission reported a year later, audiotapes from NORAD's Northeast headquarters and other evidence showed clearly that the military never had any of the hijacked airliners in its sights and at one point chased a phantom aircraft -- American Airlines Flight 11 -- long after it had crashed into the World Trade Center.

Maj. Gen. Larry Arnold and Col. Alan Scott told the commission that NORAD had begun tracking United 93 at 9:16 a.m., but the commission determined that the airliner was not hijacked until 12 minutes later. The military was not aware of the flight until after it had crashed in Pennsylvania

[StartedAt18]

9/11 panel distrusted Pentagon testimony
Commissioners considered criminal probe of false statements

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A member of the 9/11 commission said Wednesday that panel members so distrusted testimony from Pentagon officials that they referred their concerns to the Pentagon's inspector general.

The panel even considered taking the matter to the Justice Department for a possible criminal probe, commission member Tim Roemer said.

"We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting," Roemer told CNN. "We were not sure of the intent, whether it was to deceive the commission or merely part of the fumbling bureaucracy."

The issues concerned Pentagon officials' testimony about the timeline of events on September 11, 2001, when terrorists hijacked four U.S. airliners and crashed them into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and a field in Pennsylvania.

The DOD inspector general's probe found mistakes and has since corrected the record but found "nothing in the course of their review that indicates testimony by DOD was knowingly false," a Pentagon spokesman said.

The Washington Post and Vanity Fair both published stories about the commission's debate, and ABC News on Tuesday aired excerpts of military audiotapes.

"For more than two years after the attacks, officials with NORAD [the North American Aerospace Defense Command] and the FAA provided inaccurate information about the response to the hijackings in testimony and media appearances," The Washington Post reported Wednesday.

"Authorities suggested that U.S. air defenses had reacted quickly, that jets had been scrambled in response to the last two hijackings and that fighters were prepared to shoot down United Airlines Flight 93 if it threatened Washington.

"In fact, the commission reported a year later, audiotapes from NORAD's Northeast headquarters and other evidence showed clearly that the military never had any of the hijacked airliners in its sights and at one point chased a phantom aircraft -- American Airlines Flight 11 -- long after it had crashed into the World Trade Center," according to The Washington Post.

CNN's Barbara Starr and Pam Benson contributed to this report.

[Secretariat]

Some interesting answers, but no one tackled these questions:

1 If the FBI had the manifests and the hijackers are listed...how did they name people who are still alive? How did they get the numbers wrong?

2. Why won't the FBI release the manfiest since all the victims have already been published, and all the hijackers have been published?

3. Why do third party posts not list the hijackers?

4. Are the airlines restricted from publishing these manfests?

5. Bottom line - if the FBI is not hiding anything, it appears by their refusal to publish even the simplest of documents that they are in fact hiding a huge piece of the puzzle. This is what lends credence to conspiracy theories.

6. As to the dancing Arabs -what do you mean it didnt happen? Are all these people lying?

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fiveisraelis.html

I don't buy the Norad is looking out issue. Especially in lieu of Suff's recent post from the Washington Post, and it seems even Republican 911 Commissin members didnt either. See other thread.

The real issue is the manifest. How can this be reconciled?

To be honest, I have no idea about the answers to these things. What I don't understand is the reluctance to reveal this manifest.

[PaceAdvantage]

First, I'd like to state for the record, that it appears that everyone who claims the hijackers weren't listed on the manifests, HAVE NEVER SEEN THE ACTUAL MANIFESTs, because they have NEVER BEEN RELEASED.

Disingenuous to say the least. Tsk tsk....

You could have just answered my question with a simple yes or no and saved us all a lot of time spinning. "Q: Are they original manifests?" "A: Why no Mr. PA, they are not originals, but I will still claim the names are not on the manifests, even though I've never seen the manifests." Whaaaaattttt? :eek:

6. As to the dancing Arabs -what do you mean it didnt happen? Are all these people lying? Again, WHAT? Where did I ever type that it didn't happen? What I typed was that I don't believe the ACCURACY of this story has ever been verified. Sort of like that vague tale of how power was shut down to the twin towers the weekend prior to 9/11.....

[Secretariat]

First, I'd like to state for the record, that it appears that everyone who claims the hijackers weren't listed on the manifests, HAVE NEVER SEEN THE ACTUAL MANIFESTs, because they have NEVER BEEN RELEASED.

Disingenuous to say the least. Tsk tsk....

You could have just answered my question with a simple yes or no and saved us all a lot of time spinning. "Q: Are they original manifests?" "A: Why no Mr. PA, they are not originals, but I will still claim the names are not on the manifests, even though I've never seen the manifests." Whaaaaattttt? :eek:

Again, WHAT? Where did I ever type that it didn't happen? What I typed was that I don't believe the ACCURACY of this story has ever been verified. Sort of like that vague tale of how power was shut down to the twin towers the weekend prior to 9/11.....

I didn't say you said anything about the dancing arabs. THe reference was to OTB AL's comments that it never happened.

I agree that the original manifests have never been released by the FBI, yet the FBI Chief Mueller states the hijackers were on the manifest, and YET he has listed numerous people as the hijackers who oddly have been confirmed as being alive today and could not have been on the plane, AND Mueller reported orginally 18 not 19, then changed it. Now, how could these people be on the manifest, and yet still be confirmed alive?. How could the numbers be incorrect? Why is the manifenst classified and not released when all the victims have already been listed, and the FBI has posted the hijackers? This is the crux of the matter.

Bottom line. Release the manifest. Why would CNN post a manifest not listing everyone? Who would make that call?
Until, that manifest is released these questions will abound.

[lsbets]

Bottom line. Release the manifest. Why would CNN post a manifest not listing everyone? Who would make that call?
Until, that manifest is released these questions will abound.

Sec, without rehashing it, look at my post in #127. CNN did not release a manifest, they released a list of victims. I think a reasonable person when assembling a list of victims would leave out the people who committed the crime, since they are not victims. That's why I asked if anyone could show the actual manifest to back up the assertion that the hijackers are not on there, because all I have seen is the list of victims.

[Secretariat]

Sec, without rehashing it, look at my post in #127. CNN did not release a manifest, they released a list of victims. I think a reasonable person when assembling a list of victims would leave out the people who committed the crime, since they are not victims. That's why I asked if anyone could show the actual manifest to back up the assertion that the hijackers are not on there, because all I have seen is the list of victims.

Are you suggesting that CNN deliberately left off the people who committed the crime..the hijackers? Can you verify that?

If that is the case (and I doubt it), why would the FBI list people as hijackers who are still currently alive? Why would they list the wrong number of hijackers, and then change it if they had the manifest? and why would the FBI refuse to release the manifest? What possible motive would there be for the FBI when according to Mueller they've identified the hijackers from the manifest, AND all the victims have already been accounted for? I would just like to hear a reasonable explanation why it is imperative to keep the manifest classified at this point.

[lsbets]

Are you suggesting that CNN deliberately left off the people who committed the crime..the hijackers? Can you verify that?

I am stating that CNN published a list of the victims and that most reasonable people would not include the hijackers among the victims. Can I verify that? Yeah, CNN calls it a list of victims. Those who use that list as evidence that the hijackers were not on the manifest are full of it, because that list is not the manifest.

[Suff]

Reasonable people wonder why a manifest with the hijackers names has not be produced.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
As everyone knows, on Sept 11 2001, 5 Arabs allegedly hijacked American Airlines flight 11 and crashed it into the Nth Tower of the World Trade Centre at 8.46 A.M. It was part of a crime which killed approximately 3000 people.

Any crime of this magnitude, is - or should be - subject to rigourous examination by investigative and law enforcement authorities, such as the FBI. In any crime involving the illegal use of a plane, it is obvious that one of the first investigative steps taken by such authorities is to find out who was on the plane.

This is not a difficult thing to do. Airlines keep well organized records of everybody on any particular flight. The apparent ID of anyone on that flight - regardless of whether they used a true or false ID - should be immediately available to authorities.

Unless authorities decide that disclosure of such information may jeopardize the investigation, it should also be easily available to the media. It should be as simple as an exchange of faxes or emails between the media and either the airline involved or one of the relevant authorities to which the airline has released the information. Or possibly printed copies handed out at a press conference.

[Tom]

How we know that the real passenger lists are not avaialbe?
Has anyone asked the airlines?
Or asked a news agency?

[Secretariat]

How we know that the real passenger lists are not avaialbe?
Has anyone asked the airlines?
Or asked a news agency?

Yes, they've been asked by news agencies numerous times. American Airlines they are not at liberty to relese the manifest, and the FBI refuses to as well.

In researching CNN, they did not remove the hijackers, but were given a partial list, and put those up. CNN does not appear to have removed the hijackers, but were given a "partial" list from the airlines without the hijackers listed, only the victims. It seems reasonable that you can't put up a list with the hijackers if you're not given a list with them on it.

This list differs from USA Today list etc, as the organziations are relying on what is passed to them by the airlines or the FBI.

Interesting analysis on this.

http://www.911closeup.com/index.shtml?ID=65

[PaceAdvantage]

Reasonable people wonder why a manifest with the hijackers names has not be produced.

Not really. What reasonable people wonder is how folks can come to the conclusion that the hijackers names are missing from the official manifests despite having NEVER SEEN said manifests.

That's what reasonable people wonder.

[Tom]

Oh, you are GOOD!:ThmbUp:

[Lefty]

What gets me is: certain pipples on this board and other places seem to desperately cling to the notion that Bush and others in the govt did this horrible thing. They just need for it to be true. THey cling to the notion despite the articles in Scientific American and Popular Mechanics that debunk the conspiracy theories and despite the fact that Bin Ladin confessed to the deed.

[Secretariat]

Not really. What reasonable people wonder is how folks can come to the conclusion that the hijackers names are missing from the official manifests despite having NEVER SEEN said manifests.

That's what reasonable people wonder.

Well, a precendent has been set by this to doubt government claims and accept them just on trust. THe most recent example was the Vanity Fair publication of the actual NORAD tapes which show the contradictions between actual testimony and the actual evidence. It would seem reasonable to reelase the manifest since it is a listing of the actual passengers on the flights. What is unreasonable is to hide the document from public view when all names have "supposedly" been revealed. Give me one good reason NOT to reveal the original manifest.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060803/ap_on_go_ot/sept_11_response

"Sept. 11 investigations still going on
Thu Aug 3, 1:55 PM ET

"WASHINGTON - Five years after the Sept. 11 attacks, investigators are still looking into the government's response to the hijackings, specifically to determine why aviation and military officials inaccurately reported their performance on that day"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/01/AR2006080101300.html

9/11 Panel Suspected Deception by Pentagon
Allegations Brought to Inspectors General
By Dan EggenWashington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, August 2, 2006; Page A03

Some staff members and commissioners of the Sept. 11 panel concluded that the Pentagon's initial story of how it reacted to the 2001 terrorist attacks may have been part of a deliberate effort to mislead the commission and the public rather than a reflection of the fog of events on that day, according to sources involved in the debate.

Suspicion of wrongdoing ran so deep that the 10-member commission, in a secret meeting at the end of its tenure in summer 2004, debated referring the matter to the Justice Department for criminal investigation, according to several commission sources. "

[Snag]

Sec, this is a serious suggestion for you. If you feel so intent on finding out whose names were on the flight manifest, why don't you file a Freedom of Information Request?

[rastajenk]

And the conspiracy theorists have never addressed the basic question: WHY? What has been accomplished that couldn't have been done any other way?

[Tom]

Nice dodge, Sec....totally ignore PA's comment and cover it it up with more crap. See, this is why reasonable people ignore your whinning all the time.

[Secretariat]

Sec, this is a serious suggestion for you. If you feel so intent on finding out whose names were on the flight manifest, why don't you file a Freedom of Information Request?

Excellent question.

Answer: Because it has already been doen by numerous others.

Interesting Freedom of Information Request filed by a pathologist on the autopsy report done by the government. It is intersesting that an autopsy was done on almost every body, except here's the kicker....none of the bodies were Arabic in the morgue. None.

Take a look.

http://www.sierratimes.com/03/07/02/article_tro.htm

"In fact, the AFIP [Armed Forces Institute of Pathology] in its report dated November 16, 2001, incredibly said it positively identified nearly all the bodies, including the Flight 77 passengers, a medical feat which several medical experts considered miraculous if not, impossible, considering the short amount of time and the amount of devastation at the crime scene.

Remember that Calley was told by his private Pentagon attaché that 19 passengers were positively identified from Flight 77, but the AFIP reports that 184 of the 189 who died at the scene, including all but one of the airplane passengers, were positively identified within about two months.
But, to make matters worse, even these numbers have been seriously questioned by an independent medical investigator named Thomas R. Olmsted, M.D., who made a recent Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request in order to get to the bottom of what he calls a staged and phony government autopsy report in order to cover up for "monsters who planned this crime."

"Dr. Olmsted said about the AFIP autopsy:
"A list of names on a piece of paper is not evidence, but an autopsy by a pathologist, is. I undertook by FOIA request to get the autopsy list. Guess what? Still no Arabs on the list. It is my opinion that the monsters who planned this crime made a mistake by not including Arabic names on the original list to make the ruse seem more believable.

"When airline disasters occur, airlines will routinely provide a manifest list for anxious families. You may have noticed that even before Sep 11th, that airlines are pretty meticulous about getting an accurate headcount before takeoff. It seems very unlikely to me, that five Arabs sneaked onto a flight with weapons."

Dr. Olmsted then calls attention to the blatant discrepancy of the names on the airline passenger manifest and the names provided by the official Pentagon autopsy report, showing also that three names were on the autopsy that never even were listed as passengers on the airplane, an obvious indication of foul play never explained by the Pentagon.
Further Dr.Olmsted found through his FOIA request that although the medical examiners positively all of the passengers, they did not identify any of the Arab hijackers onboard, who were also not listed on the original flight manifest.

"The AFIP suggest these numbers; 189 killed, 125 worked at the Pentagon and 64 were passengers on the plane. The AA list only had 56 and the list just obtained has 58. They did not explain how they were able to tell "victims" bodies from "hijacker" bodies," said Dr. Olmsted. "In fact, from the beginning no explanation has been given for the extra five suggested in news reports except that the FBI showed us the pictures to make up the difference, and that makes it so.

"No Arabs wound up on the morgue slab; however, three additional people not listed by American Airline sneaked in. I have seen no explanation for these extras (on the autopsy list but not listed as passengers.) I did give American the opportunity to "revise" their original list, but they have not responded. The new names are: Robert Ploger, Zandra Ploger, and Sandra Teague.

"The AFIP claims that the only "passenger" body that they were not able to identify is the toddler, Dana Falkenberg, whose parents and young sister are on the list of those identified. The satanic masterminds behind this caper may be feeling pretty smug about the perfect crime, but they have left a raft of clues tying these unfortunates together."

.....

And another Freedom of information Act filed

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20060420080018985

"When the Sept. 11 terror attacks occurred, Russell Pickering was working as a professional firefighter in Seattle.

Especially because of his profession, he was deeply affected.

“The loss of firefighters and police was significant to me because of what I did,” he recalled.

His initial interest devolved into probing questions and eventually frustration that the federal government seemed unwilling to provide answers. From a network of contacts and information, Pickering has created a Web site about the attack on the Pentagon, www.pentagonresearch.com.
People should look at the evidence there and make up their own minds, he say s.

“I don't make any conclusions,” Pickering adds. “I have no partisan interest in this.”

His curiosity was piqued when friends who served on Seattle's urban search and rescue team returned from a Sept. 11 assignment in New York City, bringing questions about what they'd seen. They wondered why World Trade Center building 7 had seemingly collapsed for no reason."
...

“I feel it's my patriotic duty to look into it and find out what we're not being told,” he says. “We all have a right to know what happened.”

He served in the Air Force for six years and is respectful of the military.

In his examination of photographs from the attack on the Pentagon, Pickering says he's found only a few images showing parts of the aircraft. Further, the FBI refuses to release evidence of aircraft debris and barred the National Transportation and Safety Board from investigating the scene.

The FBI also has 85 videos it refuses to release. One of Pickering's research partners filed a Freedom of Information Act request for them. He says the agency at first denied the existence of the videos and then, on appeal, admitted to having 85.

The videos come from civilian, business and security cameras in the vicinity of the Pentagon, says Pickering, who wonders why the agency won't share the information.

“There is no justification for not releasing it,” he says, adding that anyone can go to the Pentagon's Web site and get all the details about the building. “There's absolutely no security issue whatsoever.”

Questions about the plane persist, such as why the official passenger manifest contained neither Arab names nor names that aren't accounted for, Pickering says. Further, the government has no positive identification of the five hijackers and barred involvement by the Virginia medical examiner."

...and more

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20050824131004151

August 2005. Scott Bingham of Washington DC sued the Justice Department earlier this year after it refused his Freedom of Information Act request to release suppressed video of the Pentagon attack. In a defense brief filed this month, the government says it must continue to withhold the videos because prosecutors may decide to use them in persuading a jury to pass the death sentence on Zacarias Moussaoui.

...well ,that is over and they still refuse to release them.....

...

All I'm asking is how do they reconcile the discrepancies. We already have the NORAD ones documented. Now, Kean of the 911 Commisison has revealed they were going to sue the Pentagon, and there are literally hundreds of Freedom of Information Requests seeking information that is being hidden from the public for no apparent reason. What is the harm of releasing the original manifest? No one here has answered that except to criticize my questioning.

[Snag]

Sec, once again you did not reply to my suggestion that YOU file a Freedom of Information Request for the manifest of the flights. You side stepped the issue as only a lib can do and feel they have answered the question.

Come on, step up the plate if you dare.

[Secretariat]

Sec, once again you did not reply to my suggestion that YOU file a Freedom of Information Request for the manifest of the flights. You side stepped the issue as only a lib can do and feel they have answered the question.

Come on, step up the plate if you dare.

What an idiotic response..I just told you that there have already been multiple filings on this issue. And now what? You want me to file an additional one to please you? Gimme a break. But alright. If it'll make you sleep better at night, I'll file one too.

Did you even read what I posted?

[Snag]

What an idiotic response..I just told you that there have already been multiple filings on this issue. And now what? You want me to file an additional one to please you? Gimme a break. But alright. If it'll make you sleep better at night, I'll file one too.

Did you even read what I posted?

Yes, I did read your post. You did not quote or say anything about a request for a manifest. Pathology reports and request for videos is all I read about. That is not a request for manifests, is it?

One might feel that your lengthy response was the idiotic response. Please let us know the filling number of your request.

[Tom]

I read it - every word.
No mention of FOIA for the manifests.
My question, if there were enough body aprts left to autopsie, how do thye know which were on the plane and which were in the buildings?

And this -how does one tell what nationality a burned, charred body part is?

[Secretariat]

I read it - every word.
No mention of FOIA for the manifests.
My question, if there were enough body aprts left to autopsie, how do thye know which were on the plane and which were in the buildings?

And this -how does one tell what nationality a burned, charred body part is?

Tom,

The 911 Commission could not even release the manifests. Judicial Watch has been rebuked in its request as well.

As to the autopsy....you'll have to ask the government. They are the ones who claimed they identified all but one. I have no idea how they identified the bodies, they said they did.

"The AFIP claims that the only “passenger” body that they were not able to identify is the toddler, Dana Falkenberg, whose parents and young sister are on the list of those identified."

Are you suggesting you would not want the FBI to release this document.? And if so, Why?

[Tom]

I am only replying to you that your accusatios of Snag being an idiot were incorrect - you did in fact NOT mention a filing anywhere in your dodge post.
I am not suggesting anything about any reports - I am fully satisfied.
My preference is preventing future attacks, not with witch hunting the past.

[OTM Al]

Um....you know why no Arabs were identified?

Its not really all that difficult to see. Do you know how all the passengers were identified? DNA. See, there were only pieces of people. Didn't look much like people at all to tell the truth. Family members were asked to come forward and bring hairbrushes and the like because the only way you can identify someone with DNA is by matching it with a known sample. There were no known samples for the hijackers, so there is no way to identify them with DNA. Funny thing is that the report is a report of all identified bodies, not a report of all bodies we got but don't know what to do with. He asked for an autopsy list and that's just what he got. The goverment was able to identify remains of the 9 terrorists in DC and PA sites by exclusion. They figured out who everyone else was and those 9 were just not like the others. They still had the remains a year later as no one has claimed them. None of the NY hijackers remains were identified, though there were a whole lot of people died that day that could not be identified

An article addressing the subject

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/08/17/attack/main519033.shtml

Debunking we will go....debunking we will go.....

[Tom]

The old song.....

"9 of theses things, not like the other one,
9 of these, do not agree...."

Al, Al,, Al.....

You sell Sec short.
In your very post, you mentioned DNA testing.

Der's
No
Arabs!

:lol::lol::lol:

[Secretariat]

Um....you know why no Arabs were identified?

Its not really all that difficult to see. Do you know how all the passengers were identified? DNA. See, there were only pieces of people. Didn't look much like people at all to tell the truth. Family members were asked to come forward and bring hairbrushes and the like because the only way you can identify someone with DNA is by matching it with a known sample. There were no known samples for the hijackers, so there is no way to identify them with DNA. Funny thing is that the report is a report of all identified bodies, not a report of all bodies we got but don't know what to do with. He asked for an autopsy list and that's just what he got. The goverment was able to identify remains of the 9 terrorists in DC and PA sites by exclusion. They figured out who everyone else was and those 9 were just not like the others. They still had the remains a year later as no one has claimed them. None of the NY hijackers remains were identified, though there were a whole lot of people died that day that could not be identified

An article addressing the subject

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/08/17/attack/main519033.shtml

Debunking we will go....debunking we will go.....

That is a great post OTM. Im suprised Tom trusted a CBS posting. I think that a real good debunking on the autopsy.

Do you have any link on why the manifest has not been publicly reelased, or why the 80 videos of the Pentagon crash have not been released?

[Tom]

Where have you been, Sec?
I've been saying that there no bodies to autopsie for months - maybe a years.
Just the other day again, in fact.

[OTM Al]

These people say that a manifest was never released, but the Boston Globe reported on 9/13/2001 that they had obtained the manifests for the flights originating in Boston. I will have to look it back up but there is a graphic available for flight 11 that shows where each person was seated.

[Tom]

These people say that a manifest was never released, but the Boston Globe reported on 9/13/2001 that they had obtained the manifests for the flights originating in Boston. I will have to look it back up but there is a graphic available for flight 11 that shows where each person was seated.

http://911myths.com/html/the_passengers.html

I found this - links to each flight, and scans of the actual lists - but I haven't checked it out.

[Snag]

What an idiotic response..I just told you that there have already been multiple filings on this issue. And now what? You want me to file an additional one to please you? Gimme a break. But alright. If it'll make you sleep better at night, I'll file one too.

Did you even read what I posted?

Sec, just wondering how the request is coming? You did file one didn't you?