GI Joes raping and pillaging

[TurfRuler]

I thought this would be a hot off-topic since the story broke, especially about the recent kidnapping and slaughter of the three soldiers, who alledgedly were involved in this atrocity by our own troops:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060705/ap_on_re_us/ex_soldier_charged

Previously, in a federal court affidavit, investigators said only that the 21-year-old Green had been given an honorable discharge for a "personality disorder" this spring before the March murder case came to light.

But U.S. military officials who spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the case said late Tuesday it was an "antisocial personality disorder." They did not elaborate

Greg Simolke told The Washington Post that his nephew had visited relatives in North Carolina last week on his way to and from a funeral at Arlington National Cemetery for a member of his platoon who was killed in Iraq.

According to an affidavit, the funeral Green was attending in Arlington was for one of the two soldiers whose mutilated bodies were found June 19, three days after they were abducted by insurgents near Youssifiyah, southwest of Baghdad.

Relatives told the newspaper that Green had grown up in Midland and joined the Army after receiving his GED. He went to Fort Benning, Ga., for infantry training and graduated in June 2005, his family said.

There is more to this story an age old story of murder and revenge.

[Tom]

Alleged atrocity.

[kenwoodallpromos]

The story is bad enough and the kind of reasons I want us out ASAP. But the AP writer to try and conmnect Bush directly because of a DUI is pure BS. I guessd Bush is responsible for all crimes in DC while people are drunk too? Is the writer going to connect Rep Kennedy to Bush too?
You are to blame for trying to ramp up the BS by titling this thread "GI JOES".
I would like you to answer why you could not have posted the story without condeming all US military by the title?
I take great offense at that as a 6 year US Navy vet.

[kenwoodallpromos]

The story is bad enough and the kind of reasons I want us out ASAP. But the AP writer to try and connect Bush directly because of a DUI is pure BS. I guess Bush is responsible for all crimes in DC while people are drunk too? Is the writer going to connect Rep Kennedy to Bush for a substance too?
You are to blame for trying to ramp up the BS by titling this thread "GI JOES".
I would like you to answer why you could not have posted the story without condeming all US military by the title?
I take great offense at that as a 6 year US Navy vet.
FYI, the term "GI" is short for "government issue", which specifically is used to stereotype all US military enlisted of any branch, not neccessarily in a bad light; but you used it to say all US military enlisted are not well educated, have police trouble, and murderers and rapists. Think about it!

[TurfRuler]

The story is bad enough and the kind of reasons I want us out ASAP. But the AP writer to try and connect Bush directly because of a DUI is pure BS. I guess Bush is responsible for all crimes in DC while people are drunk too? Is the writer going to connect Rep Kennedy to Bush for a substance too?
You are to blame for trying to ramp up the BS by titling this thread "GI JOES".
I would like you to answer why you could not have posted the story without condeming all US military by the title?
I take great offense at that as a 6 year US Navy vet.
FYI, the term "GI" is short for "government issue", which specifically is used to stereotype all US military enlisted of any branch, not neccessarily in a bad light; but you used it to say all US military enlisted are not well educated, have police trouble, and murderers and rapists. Think about it!

FYI, Swabie, my intention was to get a discussion on the story, which was not the first one to mention this "alleged atrocity". What I wanted was for the off-topic discussion board posters to follow the story closely because it is news and history in the making of an old story of murder and revenge and not just about US soldiers fighting a war (of course since his name isn't Bubba and they were after the "bootie".

[Tom]

Why do you assume it was murder and revenge?
Is it not possible that the Iraqis are lying?
I agree with Ken - your thread title is disgusting and it goes a long towards defining YOUR character, or rather lack of it.

How about we change it to: Ingrate Dipshit trashes troops with no evidence!

[TurfRuler]

Why do you assume it was murder and revenge?
Is it not possible that the Iraqis are lying?
I agree with Ken - your thread title is disgusting and it goes a long towards defining YOUR character, or rather lack of it.

How about we change it to: Ingrate Dipshit trashes troops with no evidence!

Aren't we touchy. I personally don't give a rat's arse about what you think of my character. If it's about acting.....No where do I site anything that the Iraqis said or reported, my news comes from the AP, Reuters, CNN, New York Times, Los Angeles Times, Wall Street Journal, USA Today, real sources and nothing imaginary. Murder and revenge is as old as dirt that they are burying soilders under.

[Suff]

I thought this would be a hot off-topic since the story broke, especially about the recent kidnapping and slaughter of the three soldiers, who alledgedly were involved in this atrocity by our own troops:



There is more to this story an age old story of murder and revenge.

Lefty started a thread on 7/4/06 that was a "Hip Hip hooray" for the Military.

Light came in with a different take. Where anyone comes down on that is thier business???

But what you see is.... If someone says "hip hip hooray" and you have any other take on it.............Your shit. An unamerican, commie, towel head'd, subversive.

They shame you quiet or out of honest talks.


I see alot of kids going sideways in this war. If one tried to have a discussion about what the Commander's are doing................It'd be hopeless.

The situation is so clouded.......And the smoke screens put up in the name of nationalism prevent any worthwhile talk............So why bother.

[Tom]

Well excuse the hell out me - but some arse who puts up that thread title trashing our troops without a trial or really any substantiates evidence IS an un-American commire rat bastard.

There are a lot of ways to have intellectaul discussion without a title like this one.

And anyone who fails to see the difference btween this crap and Lefty's thread has some serious charcter flaws as well as some mental issues that discredit the poster.


Like confusing "hip hip hooray" with "God Bless our Troops on The 4th of July."
And WE are the rat bastard side, huh?

[Suff]

[QUOTE]Well excuse the hell out me - but some arse who puts up that thread title trashing our troops without a trial or really any substantiates evidence IS an un-American commire rat bastard.

It could be construed as hyperbole. Then again, when you consider the way other residents of the world see it, it may be fit to tackle it from that angle.

The words "trashing our troops" has a 100 underlying meanings. The first being...........whoever does'nt use the proper nomenclature is an enemy or traitor.

There are a lot of ways to have intellectaul discussion without a title like this one.

And there are ways to have one with a title like this.

And anyone who fails to see the difference btween this crap and Lefty's thread has some serious charcter flaws as well as some mental issues that discredit the poster.

Lefty's thread imho is emotionalism and platitudes at best. Lefty says God Bless our Troops in one breath, then trash's Murtha ( 37 years marine corp's , Purple Heart), John Kerry ( combat veteran ,purple hearts) and others who disagree with him politically. Lefty's patriotism ends at the Ballot Box.\

Lefty's pretends ..all troops... but the moment they disagree with Lefty , or take an action he deems unacceptable, anything and everything they did for thier country gets thrown out the window.

There are many, literally 100's of Iraq war veterans running for Office at this very minute that disagree with the war.

But now its July 4th...and fireworks are going off, and its a time to be proud of America. So lefty likes to bleed emotion about "God Bless our Troops"...
Then take the high road when he gets called out. Like he is some sort of Military Loving man......when he really just wants to corner the market on Patriotism...............

[Tom]

There a garbage strike in Beantown?
The crap is piling up pretty quick.

[ljb]

Suff makes some good points here. I like his level headed calm note and in response he gets trashed. Point made Suff, well done.

[rrpic6]

Suff makes some good points here. I like his level headed calm note and in response he gets trashed. Point made Suff, well done.

Amen to that. The real world, USA, not cyberland, is looking for guidance from the man who led us to a balanced budget and wealthy times for the average Joe, not Silver Spooners.

http://news.aol.com/dailypulse/060606/_a/who-sways-your-vote/20060606093609990002

[kenwoodallpromos]

http://www.time.com/time/time100/heroes/profile/gi01.html
Colin Powell discussing the use of the terms "G.I." and GIJOE".
The statement of TurfRuler originated in the first post that the soldiers who were tortured and killed were the same ones with the guy charged was not supported by the story either. The story said they were in the same platoon, which may or may not be the same men.
I will not take the trouble to try and educate the original poster about the size of a platoon vs. the number claimed to have been involved.
Like a famous caveman once said. "maybe do a little research".
And stop making totally incusionary blanket statement smeant to condemn everyone you stereotype for the actions of a few if any.
Have yoiu ever protested a conviced (civilian) murderer being put to death? Will you or those same libs protest if this guy is convicxed and sentenced to death or do you totally discriminate based on former membership' uniform, political idealog, race, religion, or some other qualification?
Being prejudiced about 1 thing is the same as baing racist or prejudiced about anything else; and whether out of ingorance or whatever reason, your use of "GIJOE", blanket condemnation, and assumption about which members of the platoon was there is very prejuduced.
AND, FYI, I still think we should leave ASAP because of PROVEN violations by a few in our military. Still wanting Iraqis trained and taking over ASAP.

[Lefty]

[QUOTE=Tom]

It could be construed as hyperbole. Then again, when you consider the way other residents of the world see it, it may be fit to tackle it from that angle.

The words "trashing our troops" has a 100 underlying meanings. The first being...........whoever does'nt use the proper nomenclature is an enemy or traitor.



And there are ways to have one with a title like this.



Lefty's thread imho is emotionalism and platitudes at best. Lefty says God Bless our Troops in one breath, then trash's Murtha ( 37 years marine corp's , Purple Heart), John Kerry ( combat veteran ,purple hearts) and others who disagree with him politically. Lefty's patriotism ends at the Ballot Box.\

Lefty's pretends ..all troops... but the moment they disagree with Lefty , or take an action he deems unacceptable, anything and everything they did for thier country gets thrown out the window.

There are many, literally 100's of Iraq war veterans running for Office at this very minute that disagree with the war.

But now its July 4th...and fireworks are going off, and its a time to be proud of America. So lefty likes to bleed emotion about "God Bless our Troops"...
Then take the high road when he gets called out. Like he is some sort of Military Loving man......when he really just wants to corner the market on Patriotism...............

suff, you really prove Ann coulter's point that one can't criticize a guy like Murtha because of his war record.
When I say God Bless America and then libs instead of abstaining from that thread if they don't believe in it, go as far as to trash the country. I don't think that's analgous to me criticizing Murtha because of his politics.
My loyalties to this country do not stop at the ballot box, and I was for this country even when Clinton was Pres.
suff, there's libs on this board that can't even hope we win the war against terrorism, can't even say a simple thing like God Bless our military. You tell me whose loyalties stop at the ballot box.
God Bless OUr Military of all faiths, race and political persuasion.

[Tom]

What points?
You think the title of this thread is a good point?
The soldiers are innocent until proven guilty - that is the basis of our judical system - the BEST on on the planet. You think it is a good point to assume them guilty and worry about what the rest of the world will think?

How about this - we tell them about innocent until proven guilty and they likeit or leave.

You think this is a good point? "Lefty's thread imho is emotionalism and platitudes at best." He posts a positive message of gratiftude on the day we celebrate our freedom, and this is Suff's view of it? Good point - my arse. It is more of an endless stream of garbage.

Listen, if push ever comes to shove, please, don't be on my side. You guys are losers. You all would be the last ones I would ever depend on or turst.


And Ljb, do you have ADD? We are talking about calling our soldiers guilty without a trail, not a balanced budget. You have this much trouble focusing in the "real world" too?
There are medicines for that.
Try to stay on topic.

[Suff]

[QUOTE=Suff]

suff, you really prove Ann coulter's point that one can't criticize a guy like Murtha because of his war record.
.


So using your logic, or methodology, that you say is A-Ok?. You would be in 100% agreement that If I were to be critical of the the guys in the Military, it would be the same thing your doing? Correct?

What you say, is that a guy...A guy Like Murtha who served 37 years and,

1. Was a Drill Instructor at Paris Island.
2. Volunteered during Korean war!
3 Commanded the 34th Infantry Division
4 Left the Marines after Korean war..Re-volunteered!!for Vietnam in 1966
5 Received the Bronze star,.. with combat V
6 Two purple hearts
7. Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry
8. Navy Distinguished Service Medal

And Ann Coulter says Trash him, and you stand with Coulter??!! And now you want to come out on Pace Advantage on July 4th and say "God Bless Our Military"!!!

I say....HOW DARE YOU!




http://www.veteransforpeace.org/murtha_05_22_06.htm

[lsbets]

I do not understand the mindset that because someone once did great things their current actions are beyond criticism. That is one of the biggest loads of crap I have ever heard.

[Suff]

I do not understand the mindset that because someone once did great things their current actions are beyond criticism. That is one of the biggest loads of crap I have ever heard.

That's not the point... Can you take it? Is the point.

Lefty says Hip Hip Hooray....and not everybody is down with Hip Hip Hooray ..and they are unamerican to you (types).

If you understand that Murtha can be trashed, then why can't you be trashed?

Why is that Trashing the troops is "bad".... when you say so? But Trashing Murtha is "good" when you say so? Why is that?

Why can't the thread starter say GI Joes Raping and Pillaging without getting the "You suck" crowd on him? The "put your turbin on and go back to Iran" crowd? huh? Why is that Lsbets? Why is trashing Murtha Ok, But trashing you not OK?

Because your right?:confused: And he's wrong?:confused: Says who? You? Lefty? George Bush?.

[lsbets]

That's not the point... Can you take it? Is the point.

Lefty says Hip Hip Hooray....and not everybody is down with Hip Hip Hooray ..and they are unamerican to you (types).

If you understand that Murtha can be trashed, then why can't you be trashed?

Why is that Trashing the troops is "bad".... when you say so? But Trashing Murtha is "good" when you say so? Why is that?

Why can't the thread starter say GI Joes Raping and Pillaging without getting the "You suck" crowd on him? The "put your turbin on and go back to Iran" crowd? huh? Why is that Lsbets? Why is trashing Murtha Ok, But trashing you not OK?

Because your right?:confused: And he's wrong?:confused: Says who? You? Lefty? George Bush?.

I get trashed all the time. That's a part of life. As the only one ( as far as I know) on this board to have served in Iraq during Operation Iraqi Freedom, I have been told that I don't know what I'm talking about, I am unable to see the big picture, I was in charge of a killing machine, I will have to face the consequences of what I have done, I am going to hell, my tales of what happenned there are nothing more than anecdotal stories that don't mean a thing, etc, etc, etc ..........

Spare me the righteous indignation about Murtha. Its crap. You have zero problem with it when it goes against those who don't agree with you politically. It is a real shame when support for those who serve is bound by the politics of those who serve, and that is seen here everyday from the left.

But, the way I see it, everything I do is open to criticism regardless of what my past may have been, just as Murtha's words of today are open to criticism and his actions of 5, 10, or even 20 years ago are open to criticism. Read up a bit on Murtha's history in Congress, its pretty interesting.

[Tom]

Suff sees no difference between "God bless our troops" on the 4th of July and "Our troops are murderers" ??????

Interesting.

[TurfRuler]

[url]
The statement of TurfRuler originated in the first post that the soldiers who were tortured and killed were the same ones with the guy charged was not supported by the story either. The story said they were in the same platoon, which may or may not be the same men.
I will not take the trouble to try and educate the original poster about the size of a platoon vs. the number claimed to have been involved.
Like a famous caveman once said. "maybe do a little research".
And stop making totally incusionary blanket statement smeant to condemn everyone you stereotype for the actions of a few if any.
Have yoiu ever protested a conviced (civilian) murderer being put to death? Will you or those same libs protest if this guy is convicxed and sentenced to death or do you totally discriminate based on former membership' uniform, political idealog, race, religion, or some other qualification?
Being prejudiced about 1 thing is the same as baing racist or prejudiced about anything else; and whether out of ingorance or whatever reason, your use of "GIJOE", blanket condemnation, and assumption about which members of the platoon was there is very prejuduced.
AND, FYI, I still think we should leave ASAP because of PROVEN violations by a few in our military. Still wanting Iraqis trained and taking over ASAP.

Just think of me as you would think of Lee Atwater (except I'm a Liberal with an ATTITUDE). I must say that I really enjoy the image of the GI Joe rapist and murderer (no offense in using GI Joe, I just remember the commercialization about the action figure) just like you and other of this board may have enjoyed the imagery of Willie Horton, OJ, and Geronimo Pratt that they invoke.

[JustRalph]

Just think of me as you would think of Lee Atwater (except I'm a Liberal with an ATTITUDE). I must say that I really enjoy the image of the GI Joe rapist and murderer (no offense in using GI Joe, I just remember the commercialization about the action figure) just like you and other of this board may have enjoyed the imagery of Willie Horton, OJ, and Geronimo Pratt that they invoke.


wow, that sure helped your cause...........

[Tom]

I wondered when the race card would be played.

[Lefty]

Just think of me as you would think of Lee Atwater (except I'm a Liberal with an ATTITUDE). I must say that I really enjoy the image of the GI Joe rapist and murderer (no offense in using GI Joe, I just remember the commercialization about the action figure) just like you and other of this board may have enjoyed the imagery of Willie Horton, OJ, and Geronimo Pratt that they invoke.
Nobody I know enjoyed images of Willie Horton. But it was fact and it was AL GORE in the primaries that brght up Horton. Our boys are innocent until proved guilty; except in liberal minds.
Lee Atwater? I think not. I'll just think of you as another liberal.

[Lefty]

suff, I make a simple invocation of GOD BLESS OUR MILITARY and all you libs get your panties wet. If you don't agree, fine, but then you have to drag in Murtha and whatever other obstufication you guys can think of.
To me, it's even more despicable of a war hero to call our boys cold blooded murders without even a trial. He assumes it's true. Then he says he wants to be house speaker if dems win. Whose playing politics?
G.H. Bush and Bob Dole both were war heros that were trashed all over the place by the lib press and other assorted libs.
SO HOW DARE YOU!

[kenwoodallpromos]

Just think of me as you would think of Lee Atwater (except I'm a Liberal with an ATTITUDE). I must say that I really enjoy the image of the GI Joe rapist and murderer (no offense in using GI Joe, I just remember the commercialization about the action figure) just like you and other of this board may have enjoyed the imagery of Willie Horton, OJ, and Geronimo Pratt that they invoke.
___________________-
I just looked up "pillage" on Encarta:

"Definition:

1. plunder place: to rob a place using force, especially during a war


2. steal possessions: to steal goods using force, especially during a war"
________
Please point out to me any accusations of those "GI's" PILLAGING! Thank you for making more negative stuff up!
OJ. Willie, Geronimo.- In case you are more ignorant to the facts than I believe you are, the obvious difference in the 3 you named and the soldiers in the story is -THESE 3 ALL HAD AT LEAST 1 TRIAL!!!!! THE SOLDIERS YOU ACCUSED OF THINGS NOT EVEN MENTIONED HAVE NOT.
Did you really miss that?
I have my opinions as to the guilt or innocence of all 3, but I accept the results of court proceddings whether I like it or not.
Thank you for mentioning OJ, who as you know was "not guilty". If you care to, study the evidence presented at his trial and note how much of the evidence could very well fit his cousin, Ron Shipp.

[TurfRuler]

___________________-
I just looked up "pillage" on Encarta:

"Definition:

1. plunder place: to rob a place using force, especially during a war


2. steal possessions: to steal goods using force, especially during a war"
________
Please point out to me any accusations of those "GI's" PILLAGING! Thank you for making more negative stuff up!
OJ. Willie, Geronimo.-

(of course since his name isn't Bubba and they were after the "bootie".)

From Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary
pillage 2: something taken as booty, to plundere ruthlessly, loot, to take booty.


H.I Hayakawa and I are semanticists.

[TurfRuler]

wow, that sure helped your cause...........


I firmly believe that this is an "off-topic" (more semantics) discussion so I'm not trying to make any points or converts to my position nor holding a knife in a fight with hidden snipers.

[TurfRuler]

___________________-
I have my opinions as to the guilt or innocence of all

the following statement can be applied to kenwoodallpromos

"I am obviously devastated by the decision. I always thought that a man was innocent until proven guilty. I cannot understand this decision as I am confident that I have done nothing wrong, and my lawyers are confident that the case against me has no validity whatsoever. In fact I am utterly amazed the police were able to charge me based on the evidence I have seen and the questions that they have been asking me this year.

"I am grateful for the support I have received from many around the world. However, unless my suspension is lifted my career is in ruins as I cannot ask support of me elsewhere."

[kenwoodallpromos]

the following statement can be applied to kenwoodallpromos

"I am obviously devastated by the decision. I always thought that a man was innocent until proven guilty. I cannot understand this decision as I am confident that I have done nothing wrong, and my lawyers are confident that the case against me has no validity whatsoever. In fact I am utterly amazed the police were able to charge me based on the evidence I have seen and the questions that they have been asking me this year.

"I am grateful for the support I have received from many around the world. However, unless my suspension is lifted my career is in ruins as I cannot ask support of me elsewhere."
I'm sorry, I did not know the final decision had been made in Saddam's trial! (Ramsey Clarke is the attorney in the quote, right?).

[Suff]

suff, I
To me, it's even more despicable of a war hero to call our boys cold blooded murders without even a trial. He assumes it's true.U!

A trial? Now you believe in trials? Geez....

[Tom]

Run out of "facts" to throw out?
Ann Coulter just keeps getting validated every day here.:lol:

[JustRalph]

The 41-year-old jockey said afterward in a statement issued by his solicitors: "I am obviously devastated by the HRA decision. I always thought that a man was innocent until proved guilty.

"I cannot understand this decision as I am confident that I have done nothing wrong, and my lawyers are confident that the case against me has no validity whatsoever. In fact, I am utterly amazed the police were able to charge me based on the evidence I have seen and the questions that they have been asking me this year.


Keiron Fallon after being denied a jocks license in the U.K.

[Suff]

Run out of "facts" to throw out?
Ann Coulter just keeps getting validated every day here.:lol:

u talkin to me? u switch sides so often it can hard to decipher?

[Tom]

Traffic light on the low road this week Suff? Bucking for a spot on the Randi
Rhodes Show?

Not once have I ever posted a negative thing about our troops or veered from calling out bastartds like Kerry and Mutha for disparaging them. It seems to be the in thing for the bottom of the lib party to do theses days. I am suprised at the company you are keeping here lately. Gave you more credit that that. My bad.

And switching sides? It's called thinking, not being a lemming. Try it sometime.

But your Airhead America career will be out the window if you do.

[Lefty]

A trial? Now you believe in trials? Geez....
You wanna show me where I said I didn't blve in trials? The left constantly assumes everyone is guilty without a trial.

[lsbets]

You wanna show me where I said I didn't blve in trials? The left constantly assumes everyone is guilty without a trial.

Not everyone Lefty. I can think of one man in particular who has some very well documented problems with bribery and some fishy family lobbying connections, and you never see that mentioned here or in the media. If that man was a conservative, it would be mentioned everytime he was written about. But, he was never tried because he cut a deal to testify and was instead named as an unindicted co-consipritor. And he is one of the most revered men in Congress as far as the left side of this board is concerned.

[melman]

Yeah I guess "Abscam" seems a forgotten item in regards to a certain congressman. Seven guys on video tape taking the cash and another certain congressman asking about getting more.

[ljb]

Not once have I ever posted a negative thing about our troops or veered from calling out bastartds like Kerry and Mutha for disparaging them. It seems to be the in thing for the bottom of the lib party to do theses days.
And yet you have no problem cheering on the draft dodgers that put our troops in harms way for an as yet to be determined reason ?

[lsbets]

Yeah I guess "Abscam" seems a forgotten item in regards to a certain congressman. Seven guys on video tape taking the cash and another certain congressman asking about getting more.

It is pretty funny, because the guy basically says - you know I'm very influential, you need to cough up more money than that, so think about how much you can come up with and then we'll talk.

[melman]

I'm sure that tape is still available so I wonder why the major networks are not showing it over and over and over again. :jump:

[lsbets]

I'm sure that tape is still available so I wonder why the major networks are not showing it over and over and over again. :jump:

Maybe its because his name ends with (D) rather than (R)? :eek:

[Suff]

? It's called thinking, not being a lemming. .

.

[QUOTE]Not once have I ever posted a negative thing about our troops

You want tea with your lemon?

[Tom]

And yet you have no problem cheering on the draft dodgers that put our troops in harms way for an as yet to be determined reason ?

That darned ADD is kicking in again, eh?

If I recall, Clinton did not serve, but Bush did.
And your heroine, Cindy S was the one who rallied with the dodgers and deserters in Canada.

And if you think the reson is yet TBD, then you really need to do a web search for new meds. Keep telling yourself that stuff - denial is probably therapudic.

[Buckeye]

An act by ONE member of a group does not indite the entire group. To present it otherwise is not fair to the group as a whole. Anyone can do anything they want while a member of a group (it's called free will), that doesn't implicate the GROUP.

[Lefty]

An act by ONE member of a group does not indite the entire group. To present it otherwise is not fair to the group as a whole. Anyone can do anything they want while a member of a group (it's called free will), that doesn't implicate the GROUP.
Now if the libs would only apply this thinking to our military...