HorseStreet Basics of Winning Class

[Dave Schwartz]

We have schedule a new Basics of Winning Series..

Read about it here: http://www.horsestreet.com/ubb/Forum32/HTML/000022.html

Although this particluar class is aimed at HSH users (especially the new ones), if there is enough interest I would be willing to hold one for non-HSH users.

The class is free and runs on the same night of the week for 3 consecutive weeks.

If anyone is interested in discussion of what the class entails please post here and I will describe the basic theories (although my purpose is not to give the class within this medium <G>).


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[BillW]

Dave,

Put me on the "definitely interested" list!

Bill

[shanta]

I would love to hear what this is all about Dave.
Richie

[jabberwocky]

Hi Dave,

I am not an HSH user, but would be delighted to sign up for a class. Very interested. Thanks.:)

Clare

[finfan]

I am not an HSH user, but would be delighted to sign up for a class. Very interested. Thanks.:) Same here Dave. Thanks
Mark

[delayjf]

I'm in

[Tom]

If you are going to twist my, how can I refuse? ;)
I am interested, too.

[kingfin66]

I would be interested in such a class if you were to hold one for non-HSH users.

[sjk]

I would be interested in the class but I normally keep an early (ET) schedule and am reluctant to sign up for 3 weeks of classes going on so late. If you decide to have multiple groups it would be good to see one for those of us on an earlier schedule.

What does the class entail? Is there room for alternative points of view or is it chiefly expository?

[ryesteve]

If/when you do one for non-HSH users, I'd be interested

[TRM]

Definitely interested Dave.

[andicap]

non-users? Sign me up!

[Sailwolf]

non-users? Sign me up!

I agree

[mltanz]

non-users? Sign me up!

I too would be interested.

[Dave Schwartz]

Okay, I have had a tremendous response. I will have to sort this out a little and figure out the best way to do it.

I am thinking a one-day class for non-users - perhaps a bit abbreviated.

Let me work on it a little.

Dave

[Dave Schwartz]

SJK,

Technically, you would not qualify as an attendee because you are already a winning player. This class is for "non-winners" who have not crossed over to becoming winners.

(Sorry, if I outed you here - hope it does not create problems for you.)


would be interested in the class but I normally keep an early (ET) schedule and am reluctant to sign up for 3 weeks of classes going on so late. If you decide to have multiple groups it would be good to see one for those of us on an earlier schedule.

As far as HSH users go, I doubt that an early class would be easy to fill. What did you have in mind when you said "early?"


What does the class entail? Is there room for alternative points of view or is it chiefly expository?

"Expository" would be a good word. While I encourage open discussion, a debate on whether or not the concepts work would be counter-productive. Besides, the proof is in the performance.


Dave

[Dave Schwartz]

Okay, I am going to schedule another class for non-HSH users.

BTW, the difference between the two classes is that the one for HSHers is designed for them to apply this stuff directly from the software. In fact, an important module in HSH is being redesigned to specifically take advantage of this approach.


But first, a question:

I am re-thinking this and considering two formats: 5-hours on a Saturday or Tues/Thur in the same week. Which would work better for you?

Simply send an email to sales@HorseStreet.com with your registration request, and designating a preference of the two classes. If you could attend either please so signify.


Dave

[sjk]

Dave,

Thanks for the reply. I am sorry to hear that I am disqualified as I am sure I would have found your class interesting. It is understandable if you would rather hold the places for those who are just starting out and are probably more teachable than I am.

Time-wise I was thinking that an hour or two earlier would be better for me. Those of us in the East tend to overlook how many people live in the Western time zones (and vice-versa I believe) so I did not realize that so many of your users would be inconvenienced by an earlier time.

[Dave Schwartz]

SJK,

Thanks for the reply. I am sorry to hear that I am disqualified as I am sure I would have found your class interesting. It is understandable if you would rather hold the places for those who are just starting out and are probably more teachable than I am.

The way that came out was a little harsh on my part. WHat I meant to say is that you need a different class.

See, this class starts with everyone admitting that they are not winning, If they are already winning players then this class is not for them because it absolutely demands a commitment to change. Without that commitment it will lose its punch.

Considering our professional relationship (you and I) it would probably be more valuable to you if we were to do something one-on-one.


Dave

[sjk]

Considering our professional relationship (you and I) it would probably be more valuable to you if we were to do something one-on-one.


Dave

I would enjoy doing so.

[Houndog]

If/when you do one for non-HSH users, I'd be interested

Just curious ryesteve, aren't you a confirmed JCAPPER user? If it is just for your intellectual curiosity I like doing that also.

[Dave Schwartz]

Just for the record, this non-HSH class is not a commercial for HSH. There will be a few examples we site from the software simply because it produces a good screen to use as an example, but the class is about the concepts not software.



Dave Schwartz

[ryesteve]

Just curious ryesteve, aren't you a confirmed JCAPPER user? If it is just for your intellectual curiosity I like doing that also.
Yes, I'm committed to JCapper, but I certainly think this would be a very good opportunity to learn some things.

[Dave Schwartz]

Update: So far, Tue-Thu has a slight edge, with "either" being the most common choice.

We still have a few theoretical vacancies, so if anyone else wants to voice a choice on days, don't drag your feet.

The HSH class is full, btw.


Dave

[Dave Schwartz]

The response for this class from non-HSH users has been quite surprising - more than I anticipated.

The requests for specific days fell mostly with the "either" crowd, but some could only do Tue/Thu and others only Sat.

Therefore, in order to accomodate the requests of most people, I am scheduling both a Tues/Thur class and a Saturday class.

The people who responded to the "which day" query have been sent emails giving them a head start on registration. Later this morning I will post the dates and open registration for anyone else who may be interested.

My next post will cover a few requirements for this workshop. If you do not meet the requirements you will simply be wasting your time (and a seat) attending.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[Dave Schwartz]

Requirements for Attendance at the HorseStreet Basics of Winning Workshop

1. You must not currently be a winning player.
Winning Players already have a solidified approach to what it takes for them to win. They are not (typically) open to a change as extreme as what this workshop has to offer. And I promise you, this class is extreme.

If you are a winning player, please resist signing up for this class - you'll just mess it up for the other guys.

For the winning player we offer fee-based consulting services to help you integrate what we have to offer into what you are already doing. We can take you to a whole new level of play - a level you probably did not realize even existed.

This is a huge part of our business, btw - much larger than software and downloads. (I bet you did not know that internationally our consulting clients wagered 3/4 of a billion dollars last year.)



2. You must be tired of losing and ready to make change.
You must be tired enough to open your mind to new concepts.

The first time you read a book or take a class is the best time to apply what you learn.

If you are just a lookie-loo, attending to pick up information that you probably won't apply anyway, do yourself a favor and wait to take this class at a time when you are really sick of losing enough to change.



3. You must be ready to admit that you are not winning.
I am not looking to embarass anyone here. That is certainly not the goal. But to carry on the "pretend-I-am-winning" attitude that many horseplayers put forth is simply counter-productive to changing your result.




A few System Requirements

Broadband connection
Please do not attempt this class with dial-up.

Willingness to pay for long-distance telephone call
The conference call is at your standard long distance rate. There are no additional charges. (I have to pay for the call as well.)

Quiet place without background noise in the room
Please treat this workshop with the same respect you would any seminar you fly halfway across the country to attend. Remember, we are all "in the same room," so to speak.

A telephone headset is a good option. (Note that a non-usb computer headset will usually plug right into your cell phone or even your cordless telephone.)

This is an interactive workshop, though not as much as the HSH version of the class. In the HSH class we actually do semi-private coaching of sorts. We typically try to spread the classes over a 4-week period to give the player a chance to actually see the reaults of the changes he is making.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[Dave Schwartz]

Dates Are Posted.

Class 1: Tuesday, July 18 and Thursday, July 20
6:15pm to 8:15pm (pacific)
http://www.horsestreet.com/ubb/Forum32/HTML/000023.html


Class 2: Saturday, July 22
8:30am to 12:30pm (pacific)
http://www.horsestreet.com/ubb/Forum32/HTML/000024.html



Seating in both workshops is limited to 9.

[sam i am]

Hi Dave,

How are things? my wife and daughter have missed you at saratoga.


What do you think about putting these two classes on tape and selling them.

I would love to "attend" but I just can't give the two 5 hour commitment that is required.

Hope to see ya at the Spa soon,
David

[Dave Schwartz]

David,

How are you?

And, more important, is she still picking winners?

Recording the live class is very difficult because it uses two computers and the telephone.

However, Charlie and I are planning on making a full-blown course out of this in a couple of months.


Dave

[banacek]

What do you think about putting these two classes on tape and selling them.
I would be interested if you put them on tape as well.

[Dave Schwartz]

There is currently one seat left in each class.

Still time to signup.


Dave

[Sailwolf]

There is currently one seat left in each class.

Still time to signup.


Dave

If I sent you a e-mail this morning, is there a way to know if I am in the class on Saturday?

[Dave Schwartz]

I have replied to every email I have received.

Did you send it directly to me? If so, it may have wound up in my spam filter. That is why I suggested that it go to wrkshops@horsestreet.com or sales@horsestreet.com. Both bypass my spam filters.

Dave

[Dave Schwartz]

I looked through my spam and saw nothing from a sender named "sail" or anything like it. What should I be looking for?

Or, better yet, just resend to the above-mentioned address. I will hold the Sat spot open for you until 9pm tonight. Please identify yourself in the email as being "Sailwolf."


Dave

[Sailwolf]

I looked through my spam and saw nothing from a sender named "sail" or anything like it. What should I be looking for?

Or, better yet, just resend to the above-mentioned address. I will hold the Sat spot open for you until 9pm tonight. Please identify yourself in the email as being "Sailwolf."


Dave

I did not realize that "workshops" is spelled wrkshops. I will sent another e-mail.

[Dave Schwartz]

Did I mispell it? LOL - I still got it.

In fact, now that I know who you are, I got it this afternoon. And, I responded at 3:21pm.

Looks like it might be YOU with the spam filter problem.

I will resend right now. Please let me know when you receive it.

Dave

[Dave Schwartz]

It should have been Workshops@HorseStreet.com.

There is still one seat left for Saturday's class. Tuesday/Thursday is full.

Dave

[Dave Schwartz]

Both classes are now full.


Dave

[andicap]

Dave,
I'm not sure if my name is on your list (I responded here but not in an email), but if it is, please withdraw it.

I did not realize when I posted that it was for non-winners. I take that to mean those with a negative ROI say, over the past year. In the last few months, due to a more disciplined style of betting -- and better record-keeping -- I have gone into the black for the past year.

[Dave Schwartz]

Andicap,

Congratulations! I am thrilled to hear that you are winning.

There are two reasons why I discourage winners from attending. First, winners are usually very reluctant to change what they are doing. Second, many winners (logically) feel that their way is the best way to play - a few think their way is the only way - and often this detracts from the discussion.



BTW, I did not actually receive a request from you. My guess would be that you sent it directly to me and it wound up in my spam folder because you have a new address - not the one that is in my address book.

Sorry for the confusion.

And this brings up a good point...
I have sent everyone confirmation emails already. If you did not receive one, then either I never received your request or you never received my confirmation.

If anyone is in doubt, just give me a call tomorrow. 775.825.0260



Dave

[andicap]

This is actually a huge endorsement of Dave's methods -- at least his betting strategy.
The one piece of advice that really got me on the road to betting coherently was Dave's ABCDE exacta method -- If you can pick halfway decent contenders, keep records and stay disciplined you can't help but win with Dave's strategy. :)

[banacek]

Requirements for Attendance at the HorseStreet Basics of Winning Workshop

1. You must not currently be a winning player.
2. You must be tired of losing and ready to make change.
3. You must be ready to admit that you are not winning.


This does sound interesting - kind of a bit Sartin and a bit Gamblers Anonymous (but in a more enjoyable direction). A few years ago, when I was losing too often, I came to the same realization - I needed to make a massive change in almost everything I did at the track - I did and things are much better.

(Reminds me of the "George Costanza does the opposite of everything he has ever done" episode of Seinfeld )

[Niko]

People who are ahead of the game but still struggle in most areas could still benefit immensely from a class such as yours Dave..provided of course they do have an open mind. I have a couple spot plays (situations) I'm comfortable with but I still need help with another 80-90% of the races. Hopefully you'll make something available again in the future.

Maybe someone could start a thread sharing what they thought was their "ah ah" experience or what benefitted them the most from the class--provided you don't mind people sharing. Might lead to some interesting discussions...and of course a couple verbal fights which always pop up due to people who think they know it all, can't accept other opinions, have hidden agendas or just like to start trouble....so stop being so nice and get the hell out of here ;)

[ryesteve]

Dave's ABCDE exacta method
Has that ever been discussed here? I couldn't find anything...

[Dave Schwartz]

Steve,

We have actually improved on that strategy quite a bit. We will discuss it in the class.

Dave

[ryesteve]

Cool... looking forward to it...

[Tom]

Me too.
But I suspect it will not work on NYRA 4 horse stakes fields! ABCD tops! :rolleyes:

[Dave Schwartz]

Tom,

LOL - Yes... 4 horses is just about impossible.

Dave

[Dave Schwartz]

The first non-HSH Basics of Winning class finished last night. I would encourage attendees to report on their experience.


Dave Schwartz

[ryesteve]

I'd like to thank you for devoting so much of your time to us. It was a lot to digest, but I've already come away with at least one key insight that I'm pretty sure is going to be helpful.

From my perspective it was a little rough because I wasn't expecting to discover that your play style was so antithetical to mine. If you recall, you asked us at the very beginning to describe the area in which we needed improvement. In my case, it was the need to smooth out my results and achieve better consistency. I can see how your approach achieves that, but it'll take some thought to figure out how it can be applied within my handicapping framework.

If you offer another round of these classes, I'd recommend it without hesitation. As long as one is willing for focus for a few hours, it's impossible not to come away with some ideas and avenues to explore.

[traveler]

I too would like to thank Dave for the two nights of insight into how he does things. As he promised, it wasn't a pushy in-your-face salespitch to sell his software or services but rather how to look at things from a different perspective in being able to exploit your wagering opportunities. Obviously you have to be to pick contenders to have any success and he willingly shared some ideas on that too. We were able to see some of the features of his software and it was impressive.
I know I came away with enough to keep me thinking for a long time. If anyone has any doubts about Dave or his methods, I strongly suggest you sit in on any online meeting he offers. :ThmbUp:

[TRM]

Couldn't agree more with Rye, and Traveler. Dave introduced a unique way of playing contenders that is an advanced version of "looking" at value as compared to simply making an oddsline and betting the overlay(s). I would highly recommend this class to everyone.

AND----Dave's very funny.......so he thinks....Ha! j/k.

[Dave Schwartz]

AND----Dave's very funny.......so he thinks....Ha!

Hey, it was a tough room. I am going to get a second opinion from tomorrow's class.

Either my jokes are bad or horse players have no sense of humor.

My wife is on your side.

Dave

[socantra]

Dave,

Many, many thanks for allowing me to participate in your Saturday "Basics of Winning" seminar. You have given me much food for thought and certainly changed the focus of the way I approach the races.

The one day session was a bit long and having the Beirut bombing going in the background was a bit distracting. A written outline would have been much preferred to my own poor notes..

That being said, you laid out an incredible amount of information. (for free I might add). I picked up a little bit of it and after 24 hours I'm still coming up with new possibilities of how to put some of it to use.

You mentioned something about help with constructing a spreadsheet dutching tool???????????????

Again, thanks for taking the time and effort to offer so many new ideas and directions and for making them available for free. The business model is wonderful, at least from the customer's point of view.

I will sing your praises on high. I will even say I've heard a lot worse jokes. Of course, I was a bartender/saloonkeeper for over twenty years, so you are in some pretty deep company there.

socantra

[mltanz]

Dave,

Let me also thank you for taking the time to put on the seminar yesterday. I just returned home to Rock Hill, NY from our Florida vacation and the detailed notes I took made for some interesting and thought provoking reading. As we discussed yesterday, your description of the beginner, intermediate and expert player defined me and I'm sure the other members of the group to a "T". I'm still trying to digest the concept of betting a horse if he drops below your acceptable odds line. You weren't kidding about learning new concepts and unlearning old ones. I am going to spend some time going over the information on your web site, and may very well become a HSH customer.

Again thanks for your time.

Mark

[Tom]

Add me to the list - thought the seminar was excellent!
I can honestly say I heard stuff I never paid any attention to in the past, and I think it will make a major differences in my play. Only time will tell, of course, but this looks like a structure that will work very well.
Starting this week.

Thanks Dave.

[Sailwolf]

Add me to the list - thought the seminar was excellent!
I can honestly say I heard stuff I never paid any attention to in the past, and I think it will make a major differences in my play. Only time will tell, of course, but this looks like a structure that will work very well.
Starting this week.

Thanks Dave.


I agree !!!!!!!!!!!