I'd wish for.......

[tboles]

What if the members of this board had a programmer who was capable of building a "Home-Grown" program, from the thoughts and ideas of the members in this forum......

What would "you" wish for in your program ???

[Lefty]

Tony, great to see you post again. I guess i'd want to see every paceline up to 10 and the ability to toggle to fps numbers on every line as well. nd the ability to pick the paceline of my choice.
Also i'd like to see it take results and put them in a db and keep a model complete with roi on several factors at touch of button. And i'd like it to use .50 TSN files.

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Lefty
Tony, great to see you post again. I guess i'd want to see every paceline up to 10 and the ability to toggle to fps numbers on every line as well. nd the ability to pick the paceline of my choice.
Also i'd like to see it take results and put them in a db and keep a model complete with roi on several factors at touch of button. And i'd like it to use .50 TSN files.

I think that program already exists, except maybe for the fps numbers. But its close........

[Jaguar]

For a flexible, adaptable state-of-the-art handicapping program, you might want to check out Joe Zambuto's latest work.

All the best,

Jaguar

[Lefty]

Jaguar, got Joes and just about everybody elses. Thght we were building one here.
The prob is, yes there are lots of prgms that are close to what we want but none that line up all the "ducks" exactly as we want them.
There's a bunch of prgms that are"close" though, well, maybe 4.

[Speed Figure]

I just made my own "home-grown"program call the "Mark Walker Pace and Speed Handicapper".I should have it next week.i've been using old racing forms to see how things would come out and so far so good.

[tboles]

Lefty you know why I am posting here! Spoke with Stan the other night, He is willing to start programming once again.
Thought if ideas could be gathered from the members here, Stan
could put those ideas to work for us.

[Lefty]

Sounds great, but is there any reason he can't just take Procapper and make it better, i.e. maybe add rois to Wizard and make it work faster? And then incorporate some of this other stuff? Anyway, a way to quickly access a database certainly seems a must these days.
Give Stan my best.

[Doug]

Some type of indicator if the horse is dropping in classmand what type of class drop it is. For example a horse dropping from 3 and up to 3 only, dropping from nw3 to nw3 claiming or alw. Indicate if class drop is a giveaway clm 12000 to clm 8000. In other words if the horse is dropping in class and not being given away or is the drop indicating something negative.

Doug

[Tom]

The ability to toogle through every paceline in FPS numbers is just one screen in the HTR2001 program. Indicators for class drops, etc. are also part of HTR. What I really like, is the screen that lets you toggle throught each paceline and see the Crammer
pace and speed numbers. I am cleaning house using Crammer pace numbers to through out E and E/p horses that are out gunned early today or to identify lone speed that won't get caught.

[Speed Figure]

Has anyone used the 2001 moneymaker with nick bradley pace figures.

[GR1@HTR]

Originally posted by speed figure
Has anyone used the 2001 moneymaker with nick bradley pace figures.

Sounds outdated. Is there an update for 02?

[Speed Figure]

No but here's the web site.http://www.horseracingcomputer.com

[Speed Figure]

When i get my software program each handicapper should pick 1 race using the sofware they have and let's see who can have the best R.O.I with there picks.:D

[Lefty]

Tom, yep aware of HTR, like I said what I want is out there scattered amongst several prgms but none have it all; I don't think. A few are close. HTR doesn't use .50 files; darn.

[Jaguar]

GR1, I'm an old Herman Nichols customer. He does business as Nick Bradley. He improves his calculators every 3 years and yes, they do work. He is a shrewd handicapper, a good scientist, and a heckuva nice guy.

The problem is that these calculators put you on consensus horses- favorites-. I have not seen Mr. Nichol's new version, it's not out yet, but it is safe to say that the strong pattern-recognition programs are what is needed for today's very challenging handicapping environment.

Handicapping has changed a bit in the last 5-7 years, and I notice that planned upgrades for some of the best pace programs will incorporate limited pattern recognition. Those upgraded programs will be killers, though perhaps not as strong as full-blown A. I. programs.

All the best,

Jaguar

[jk3521]

To Tony Boles,

I loved " Procapper" and still use it every day. I was in contact with Stan 8 or 9 months ago and he wrote me that he was thinking of a new, improved Procapper. If you are still in contact with him, please encourage him to revive the program. Thank you.

[BillW]

An approach that comes close to being all things to everybody and provides almost infinite flexability is an application engine/framework. The central piece of this system is a program containing basic handicapping functions such as a file importer, database, core set of handicapping factors/calculations, analysis tools, statistical library, graphical interface functionality etc. An extention language is provided to bring the engine to life and provide the high level program functionality. Most of you are familiar with vbasic extention language employed in MS applications. This is a similar idea.

I have employed this approach in a commercial environment (embedded app and proprietary language design ) and have seen this approach successfully used in other environments (the emacs text editor for instance) The result is that it makes all of the user base potential developers that can contribute changes/additions back to the user community. Questions like Tony's that started this thread result in users taking action to fill percieved voids rather than pondering "what if".


Bill

[tboles]

Lefty and jk3521

I was contacted by Stan last week. Stan told me he was now
settled and his business is established enough that he would like
to resume working on Procapper. I believe the basics of Procapper will stay in place but there needs to be changes made
here and there, such as the filters section, the Wizard and Par Times.

Stan also has a unique idea for Procapper that I have not seen with other capping programs.

There have been several other suggestions on here that would be beneficial to handicappers and BillW's suggestion of
an extention language was very interesting.

Tony

[Lefty]

Sounds great, Tony. Just ask him to keep it taking those .50 TSN files and FREE results.

[GR1@HTR]

http://horseracing.about.com/library/weekly/aafpr013102.htm?iam=dpile_1&terms=%2Bpace+%2Bhandicapping

[Lefty]

This thing in the article has been around under one name or another for a few yrs. Always mad me mad when they call a cheap calculator with a cardboard overlay a computer. A computer it is not.

[superfecta]

Originally posted by tboles
What if the members of this board had a programmer who was capable of building a "Home-Grown" program, from the thoughts and ideas of the members in this forum......

What would "you" wish for in your program ??? I'd like to see something that would synthesize the probable payouts for Tris and supers and betting patterns that the bettor could use to structure his bet after he made his selections.It would be track specific so the bettor could concentrate on the tracks and races that would make the most of the bet.

[Lefty]

Tony, has Stan moved forward with his plans for Procapper?

[tboles]

Lefty...

#1- We need to update the original version to get a few things
working again. Such as the results importer and the Wizard.
Hard to manually get settings going for different tracks
without the Wizard.

Once the prior version is completed and up and working,
we will open up the website to make this available to
all registered users.

Since I had that serious accident at the time of Procapper
downfall, and Stan moved across the States to a job that
he was told was no longer there, We have a few former
clients to try and satisfy first. Update will be free!

#2- We will then proceed with New Version. I believe both
Stan and I have decided somewhat how Procapper will
progress in the future.

Both Stan and I want to proceed slowly on the project so
that we can make sure our next version performs better
than any other. Stan is working very hard to develop his
new company so his time is limited at the moment.

I wish I could use the Wizard to obtain settings for Belmont.
I have manually set those and looking at 3 horse exacta
boxes.

I will keep you posted on our progress.


Tony

[Lefty]

Good. I take it that Stan or you still has reg users list. My name should be there.
Lefty

[jk3521]

Tony,

As far as the Procapper program is concerned, I would think that the only thing needed to improve the program is a few new filters . I would like to see a "track bias " (whether E,EP,S,or P horses perform well at each track) and include such a setting which can be turned on /off. Wish Stan well for me. I'm really getting worked up about the program . Thanx.

Joe

[jk3521]

Tony,

I noticed that you said that you are unable to use "The Wizard "to tune the settings for Belmont. My" Wizard' works after manually loading the results. Why can't you use the "wizard " in your version?

Joe

[tboles]

LeftyGood. I take it that Stan or you still has reg users list. My name should be there.
I have the members list. Your in there!

jk3521 would think that the only thing needed to improve the program is a few new filters .
This is a must. First thing we discussed in planning.

As far as turning on and off the running styles EP,P,Sp etc
this is something the Wizard will take care of. Plans to
work on this one as well. Will be using New database
engine that should "dramatically" increase performance.

As for my version of Wizard not working, I have an update
that imports results. Conflicting with Wizard due to some
changes Stan had been working on.
Would be nice to have it up and running to adjust settings
more rapidly and correctly for Belmont.

Tony

[Lefty]

Tony, know i've said this before but worth repeating: Hope Stan plans to include ROI in Wizard as well as win pctg.
Hope all goes speedily and well.

[swoop]

TBoles...Hope all is well with you!!! A Procapper comeback is one great Idea...I still use it..Still one the best outhere for handicapping IMHO....Please make sure I;m kept up to date...for this...It will be under the name of Dan Cathers...and again thanks Tony for hanging in there.....Dan...

[tboles]

Swoop...
Hello! Hope all is well with you. Soon as I can get the
updated version out there I will make sure you are contacted.

Let me tell you, It's <great> to be working with Stan again.
Looking forward to making contact with all the users as well!

Tony

[tboles]

Lefty...
We will be adding ROI and a few other items to the program.
I think you will be surprized at the transformation of Procapper.

First, stabilize ver 3+ then proceed forward. We owe you and
many other users a current update!!!

Tony

[swoop]

For the quick response...sounds great to me...Swoop...

[jk3521]

Tony,

Keep the good news coming!

Joe

[jackad]

What is so great about the Procapper?
Jack

[JimG]

Originally posted by jackad
What is so great about the Procapper?
Jack

I'm not sure Jack, but let's let Tony, Lefty, and others keep talking about it and maybe you and I will figure it out<g>. I'm enjoying the discussion.


Jim

[Lefty]

Well, it had a good oddsline and you could adjust the filters for the race and the way the trk was running. And it used TSN FREE results in its database. That's the things I liked.

[Lefty]

And, of course, it utilized TSN .50 files.

[swoop]

Best one out there!!!!Bar none....Swoop...

[jackad]

Swoop. Tony, Lefty,
Why? Please elaborate: Ease vs complexity of use? When used as a "black box", win frequency and ROI? Modelling and self-tuning? Other considerations? Thanks.
Jack

[Lefty]

Jackad, I thgjt it was very easy to use. But here's the thing, you could set the filters for ea. individual race: Suppose observation showed horse had to have a good 1st call and say a good 2nd FRACTION, well for 6 fur races at trk you were playing. You could set that up in the 1st line of filters. Then you could go into the other filters and just with a series of chk marks set your paceline selection, days to go back, accept only dirt or turf or both, only winners no mdns, etc. Lottsa stuff.
The wizard let you set up a bunch of filters and then it would look at past races and tell you which ones were winning at diff types of dist and conditions at trk you set it up for.
Racing is dynamic so diff races had diff win pctgs and roi. I do not trk these I just set a br and trk my bets. Procapper needed(my opinion, roi's as well as win pctg in the Wizard.
Anyway, when Stan left, I drifted away from prgm.
Swoop seems to be using it now and prob. can tell you more, but those are my memories of prgm.

[Lefty]

One more memory, it also showed a series of trainer moves that were profitable, present in diff races. I didn't use it much but there was at least one user on our bbs who used this feature exclusively. Some races would have 3-4 some none. But they wre present. I used it only to help separate horses in my top 3.

[tboles]

Jack

Procapper was around back in 1997-late 2000. We had to close shop back then due to some misfortunes of those involved with
the program. We are working to bring the program back and our first priority is to get an updated version out to our users.

Procapper is extremely easy to use. One of the features involved was the use of filtering. You could filter horses and or races to handicap by clicking desired filters on and off. Software
came with default settings for the novice player. Experienced players would use certain filter setups for different types and classes of races.

We then produced an add-on feature called the Wizard that
would find the best filters available. That program was in its early stages when we left off.

Here are a few features....
*Par and Variant maker w/ ability to print out according to trk
and class etc. Program does use those pars in calcs
This feature was worth is weight in gold.
*Filtering of races
*Program performance analysis
*Results importer
*Program works with TSN (single) BRIS(multi) and ITS data files
*Calculates contenders according to form
*When calculating Winners one could adjust the form/speed ratio
to arrive at your selections.
*Graphs
*Animation (Equisim holds the Top Honors here)
*PP viewer that would allow to view all pace lines, selected pace
lines or adjusted pace lines.
*Trainer Angles and selections
Etc....


You also asked for results from program. I will attach Belmont
from 9/06-9/14 I will also attach a separate report for Bel 9/15 which track was rated "good". I am using generic filters in the
processing of reports. Those that I have used since the opening and even posted with here.
Stan (our programmer) recently gave me an update that caused
some problems with my Wizard program so I am not able to run filter reports as I wanted to. Hence..generic for now.
Better results would come if the filters were not generic and broken down into dist, class etc.


Belmont 09/06-09/14 66 races analyzed

#horses wagered returned profit Win%
Top1 132.00 221.00 89.00 27
Top2 264.00 346.00 82.00 45
Top3 396.00 549.00 153.00 67
Top4 did not calculate

One of the things that has been suggested is adding ROI
I agree.

File to be attached after PA scans it.....

Tony

[tboles]

Jack here is a report for Belmont 9/15 and track is rated "good"

I try not to play tracks in any condition other than Fast.


Top 1 wager 20.00/ returned 14.00/ profit -6.00/ Win% 20
Top 2 wager 40.00/ returned 55.00/ profit 15.00/ Win% 40
Top 3 wager 60.00/ returned 55.00/ profit -5.00/ Win% 40

[Richard]

Does Procapper also have track profile/post position options?

[tboles]

Richard
Presently Procapper does not track those. However there are alot of things in the works with the redesign.

Tony

[Richard]

tboles,
Using EZCapper I have found these features to be very useful.It certainly would'nt hurt to at least consider them.

[hurrikane]

I'd like a program to show me

What trainers are using steroids
What trainers are using juice
What jockeys at PEN are crooked (actually I don't play PEN but I'd have something to talk about with the loosers at the track)

and who is going to win the race 2 min before post.

I know..doesn't sound like much..but I"m easy. :D

buy the way, I used Procapper for a bit when I first got into horse software. The problem I had was...the .50 TSN files. If you play every track every day and are building a data base that turns into a tough nut every month. That's why I went to HTR..one price download and top notch software.
Not to mention some real sharp cappers over there.

But I thought the software was pretty good.

[Lefty]

Hurricane makes a great point. .50 files expensive if you're building a db of many tracks. TSN offers an Advantage plan that includes files for all trks that work for Procaps and these files also work in EquiSim. Sadly, they do not work in every prgm that uses tsn files. They include xrd results.
TSN offers another plan that includes all trks with tsn data files and does not include xrd results but since Procapper used free results this would be the plan for Procapper users if the free results feature is retained. This plan also $59.95 mo.

[tboles]

We have talked about this very subject.

We will need many files as well to maintain the pars for the web-site.

If you recall the software had the capability to import 4 different data file sources.


Tony

[Lefty]

Tony, yes, 4, but cheapest TSN and if you retain the use of free TSN results then the $59.95 plan makes it really cheap or failing that give it the capability to use Procap files and still $59.95 a month w/results.

[tboles]

Lefty...
The TSN format will remain in the program. Some out there would rather have a set price for unlimited downloads.
Others do not play everyday so the .50 file might be for them.

Tony

[Lefty]

That's what's great about TSN. Now you can go either way.