What happened to BATCH WAGERING SOFTWARE thread?

[highnote]

What happened to the BATCH WAGERING SOFTWARE thread?

[betovernetcapper]

Yeah, I like'd that thread. I've seen a lot of threads from people with one post asking "Hey have you seen the super duper-I saw it win four triples in a row". I don't think this was one of those. I think the guy was unaware of this board until I emailed him and invited him here.
Having used ATR for 2 years now, I 'm convinced of the usefulness of tote board interfaces. Just a few min ago in the 10th at MNR, I was able to throw out the 2nd betting choice because he was 3 times his win odds in the exacta pool. Earlier in the day I made a place bet on a very likely winner because he was paying almost as much to place as to win. I thnk these tools are in their infancy and in a few years we will all be using them. :)

[highnote]

Does anyone remember the link to that Batch Wagering site? I'd like to look at their product some more.

Thanks.

[Triple Nickle]

http://www.batchbetpro.com

[highnote]

THX!

[PaceAdvantage]

It was brought to my attention that there was misinformation being spread in the thread, in addition to the fact that those who pay to advertise here didn't think it very fair that this guy gets so much free airtime to recruit....

Plus, personally, I don't think there is any reason in the world to spend $800 or more for a piece of software it took me two nights to write....

[highnote]

Thanks for the info, PA.

If you want to delete this thread that is fine by me. I got the info. No need to keep giving away free ads.

js

[Triple Nickle]

PA,

Sorry, was just answering question. Should have figured out there was a reason. Delete this thread.

Ken

[PaceAdvantage]

There's no reason to delete this particular thread. The other thread presented a bit of a complicated situation for me on more than one front.

I certainly don't want or intend to discourage anyone from talking about a commercial product, nor do I want to discourage vendors from coming here and answering questions that may be raised by regular members of this board.

But, like I said, certain things were brought to my attention about that particular thread, and I felt it was best just to remove it. It was a large thread which generated a lot of interest, and the decision wasn't easy....

It's an interesting topic, and one I hope will generate more discussion....

For instance, why is it that online wagering services are not tripping all over themselves to give people the tools to build their own wagering boxes, in much the same way many online brokerages provide the tools and info which enable folks to build their own "black box" auto-trading programs (which I have also done for S&P futures via Interactive Brokers....but I digress).

[highnote]

PA,

In answer to your question --

Some online wagering services almost certainly do try to help players. Xpressbet tried to work with a group a few years back and then had to stop because of all the complaints from other parties.

My belief is that many wagering services think that their customers are too stupid to compete against someone who uses automatic betting.

If I was legally allowed to bet online from my state I would certainly find a wagering service provider that would bend over backwards to accomodate me. Of course, I'd give them lots of handle in return.

But there is no reason a platform could not be rolled out to accomodate even $20 bettors. I mean, once you've got a system in place for a few whales, it doesn't cost much to add additional bettors.

[trigger]

PA,

In answer to your question --

Some online wagering services almost certainly do try to help players. Xpressbet tried to work with a group a few years back and then had to stop because of all the complaints from other parties.

My belief is that many wagering services think that their customers are too stupid to compete against someone who uses automatic betting.

If I was legally allowed to bet online from my state I would certainly find a wagering service provider that would bend over backwards to accomodate me. Of course, I'd give them lots of handle in return.

But there is no reason a platform could not be rolled out to accomodate even $20 bettors. I mean, once you've got a system in place for a few whales, it doesn't cost much to add additional bettors.

I would guess the reason they just want the whales to have the software is that making it available to all at a reasonable price would negate two ,at least, advantages that the whale users now have.....last milli second betting (i.e. know odds just before they bet) and electronic access to the tote info (which they can utilize to determine undervalued exactas,etc. based on historical odds and also to determine how much to bet). Losing these advantages would render the software practically useless.
Also, I notice Elite Turf increased their required weekly handle to $15,000 from $5,000 (kinda underscores my point).

[bigmack]

last milli second betting
Do "they" actually have this benefit?

[betovernetcapper]

For instance, why is it that online wagering services are not tripping all over themselves to give people the tools to build their own wagering boxes, in much the same way many online brokerages provide the tools and info which enable folks to build their own "black box" auto-trading programs (which I have also done for S&P futures via Interactive Brokers....but I digress).

Not only are they not tripping over themselves to provide these tools, but it's my understanding that they are actively opposed to their use. Someone was explaining to me how to make a software program called CherryPicker and one of the problems is/was that YouBet/BrisBet would from time to time alter the screen features making autobetting difficult.

[PaceAdvantage]

My belief is that many wagering services think that their customers are too stupid to compete against someone who uses automatic betting.

XpressBet openly discussed how a person could link up to their system? I doubt that. From what you're saying, it sounds like this group contacted XpressBet privately and was trying to work out a deal....

My point is that NONE of these U.S.-based services, that I know of, offer any type of FAQ or SDK that will help a programmer link up to their data feed and allow the automatic submission of wagers.

A few places are EASY to figure out (especially with the help of others who have been there before), and I have written software that monitors the pools and places bets automatically. It only took me two nights to actually program the application. I'm no programming wizard either....

[bigmack]

My point is that NONE of these U.S.-based services, that I know of, offer any type of FAQ or SDK that will help a programmer link up to their data feed and allow the automatic submission of wagers.

A few places are EASY to figure out (especially with the help of others who have been there before), and I have written software that monitors the pools and places bets automatically. It only took me two nights to actually program the application. I'm no programming wizard either....
So is this Elite Turf one of the few that a person can do this with?
Also, with the app you wrote how are the wagers placed - manually or auto?
Cause it goes back to the "when is the post" question.

[Tom]

Is this really fair?

Why should some people have direct access to betting pools while the majority have to call up or click on a website or, gads, walk up to a window?

Isn't this like walking in front of a line to get seat at a movie? Or sneaking in through a fire exit?

I have a real problem with this kind of stuff. At Poker.com, do some players
get extra cards?

This sounds like the same scam that waiter at Saratoga was playing.

[PaceAdvantage]

So is this Elite Turf one of the few that a person can do this with?
Also, with the app you wrote how are the wagers placed - manually or auto?
Cause it goes back to the "when is the post" question.

I know nothing about Elite...

My program goes through a US based online wagering service....All I did was write a Visual Basic program that reads the data off of the webpage. I have no special link to the feed. My bets are placed exactly the same way as everyone else...through the website....except the bets are handled by the program. The program does the "clicking" for me....

When the race is closed, it's closed for me too, at the same time as everyone else. The only edge I have at this time is the convenience edge....

[sjk]

If I were using batch betting I would be making the same bets I make today but I would play more races because there would be less fatigue (watching odds boards and punching bets for a dozen tracks over several hours can be take energy) and there would be the opportunity to play races when I need to be elsewhere. It seems like the next logical step after removing the requirement that I drive 30 miles to the track.

I don't really expect the large US based companies to make this possible since only a very small percentage of players are making the sorts of odds line that you need to make this useful and there seems to be a broad perception that this creates an advantage that is really not there.

Automated play facilitates bad bets as much as good bets.

[PaceAdvantage]

Is this really fair?

Why should some people have direct access to betting pools while the majority have to call up or click on a website or, gads, walk up to a window?

How is it not fair? I essentially built for myself a better web browser. I don't have direct access to the betting pools. I have the same exact access as you do...I read a web page, or more accurately, my program reads the web page.

I get the same exact information that you do at exactly the same time, because all I am doing is reading the tote web page. I don't get the info any quicker, and I am shut out of a race at exactly the same time you are, when the gates open.

So to answer your question, yes I believe it is fair. Your argument that it isn't fair is akin to saying someone with a cable modem has an unfair advantage over someone with a dial-up modem because the cable guy gets to load the data at a faster rate....

[highnote]

XpressBet openly discussed how a person could link up to their system? I doubt that. From what you're saying, it sounds like this group contacted XpressBet privately and was trying to work out a deal....
...

That's right. A certain group contacted Xpressbet and worked out a deal where they would bet a lot of money in return for a rebate and/or a direct feed.

Here's the article...

Owner group puts kibosh on XpressBet's rebating

http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=53832&subs=0&arc=1

[bigmack]

http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=53832&subs=0&arc=1
I had not seen that article.

VERY INTERESTING.

[highnote]

It's an old article, but I think the interesting thing is that if you are willing and able to bet a lot of money then you can probably cut a deal.

Money talks.

[bigmack]

What the approx date it was published?

[highnote]

It's gotta be a year or two old -- maybe longer?

[Hosshead]

How is it not fair? I essentially built for myself a better web browser. I don't have direct access to the betting pools. I have the same exact access as you do...I read a web page, or more accurately, my program reads the web page.

I get the same exact information that you do at exactly the same time, because all I am doing is reading the tote web page. I don't get the info any quicker, and I am shut out of a race at exactly the same time you are, when the gates open.

....
P.A. - So the program you wrote is, in a way, like ATRPro ?

[Tom]

How is it not fair? I essentially built for myself a better web browser. I don't have direct access to the betting pools. I have the same exact access as you do...I read a web page, or more accurately, my program reads the web page.

I get the same exact information that you do at exactly the same time, because all I am doing is reading the tote web page. I don't get the info any quicker, and I am shut out of a race at exactly the same time you are, when the gates open.

So to answer your question, yes I believe it is fair. Your argument that it isn't fair is akin to saying someone with a cable modem has an unfair advantage over someone with a dial-up modem because the cable guy gets to load the data at a faster rate....

I'm talking aobut this scanning the pools for inefficiencies and automatically making bets in "the last milsecond." I assumed that's what your program did. It's that other kind I am talking about...aren't I? Isn't that what this 800 pound gorilla program is all about?

[highnote]

I'm talking aobut this scanning the pools for inefficiencies and automatically making bets in "the last milsecond." I assumed that's what your program did. It's that other kind I am talking about...aren't I? Isn't that what this 800 pound gorilla program is all about?


I love having these 800 gorillas in the pool. Take this year's Kentucky Derby for example. Some gorilla bet $500,000 in the last minute on the second choice, thereby making him the favorite. That upped Barbaro's odds. I bet Barbaro, so I was very pleased.

However, just because it was a $500,000 bet doesn't mean it was done by computer. It could have been phoned in or even bet at the track. There might have been a few sheiks or Texas Oilmen in attendence that day. $500,000 is nothing for a lot of people.

[PaceAdvantage]

P.A. - So the program you wrote is, in a way, like ATRPro ?

It's nowhere near as sophisticated as ATR in terms of analyzing the tote board. But it does perform some basic analysis, and it does automatically place bets if certain qualifications are met....so yes, it is like ATRPro I suppose....

[trigger]

How is it not fair? I essentially built for myself a better web browser. I don't have direct access to the betting pools. I have the same exact access as you do...I read a web page, or more accurately, my program reads the web page.

I get the same exact information that you do at exactly the same time, because all I am doing is reading the tote web page. I don't get the info any quicker, and I am shut out of a race at exactly the same time you are, when the gates open.

So to answer your question, yes I believe it is fair. Your argument that it isn't fair is akin to saying someone with a cable modem has an unfair advantage over someone with a dial-up modem because the cable guy gets to load the data at a faster rate....

The whales using these robotic wagering operation aren't scraping pool data from an online screen that is probably updated every minute or so and then processing their bets thru an online account wagering site....that's much too slow. They have direct real time access via their computer to the tote system.The guy who was betting all the money($100 mil+) thru the Racing Services tote in Minnesota was actually an SPMO by himself.
NY, Woodbine and Tampa and several countries have barred these types of wagering systems from betting into their pools.

[PaceAdvantage]

The whales using these robotic wagering operation aren't scraping pool data from an online screen that is probably updated every minute or so and then processing their bets thru an online account wagering site....that's much too slow. They have direct real time access via their computer to the tote system.The guy who was betting all the money($100 mil+) thru the Racing Services tote in Minnesota was actually an SPMO by himself.
NY, Woodbine and Tampa and several countries have barred these types of wagering systems from betting into their pools.

Yes, I get that...I was simply responding to Tom, whom I thought was saying that what *I* was doing was unfair....when it clearly isn't, as you so rightly describe....

[Vegas711]

Racing services is not in Minnesota, its in North Dakota.Canterbury Park is the only Legal horse racing betting site for Minn residents.

[Buckeye]

Wow, Just wheN I thought some of you might thank me for my advice, they freakin delete the whole thing! Let me propose a new thread then, my winning numbers. Take "my winning numbers" and buy a means to make money with them!

Doesn't make much sense to me either.

[BobbysChance]

hahaha i actually know this software! haha... funny

- my friend uses it evertime he bets... i actually referred him haha
- and i actually semi-work for the company who made it.

i mean, not the batchbetting pro software division but yeah i do consultant work for their media division. thats so crazy... have any of you guys actually used it?

[Dave Schwartz]

Bobby,

You work in the Philipines?

Dave

[BobbysChance]

no no, i consult for their media development projects. I piece together the plans and stuff, the philippines is just where the coding and production is done. Im in washington, but then i dont really live in one place haha. im all over the states lately.

Why do you ask?

[Dave Schwartz]

No reason beyond the company's location.

Dave