Polytrack at Arlington?

[Valuist]

Arlington has had a real problem with breakdowns this meet. Three different horses broke down yesterday alone. The track has been pretty biased toward the outside for the entire meet up until the last week or so when its been much closer to neutral/unbiased. I heard they are going to pull off the track surface after the races on Sunday to find out what's causing all the breakdowns. 6 weeks into the meet and there's been about 20 breakdowns. I can't help but wonder if the powers that be at AP are going to look at putting Polytrack in somewhere down the line.

[MONEY]

Many of the breakdowns at Arlington can probably be attributed to the bad weather they've had all season. I stopped handicapping and playing Arlington.
Because of the daily multiple weather related scratches handicapping just became a waste of time.

[Valuist]

I don't buy that. We've had some rain here in Chicago but May tends to be a rainy month anyways. They've had problems with the surface for years. I think the main track is very bettable and up until a week ago, one could count on a track where stalkers 3-4 wide would win race after race. Starting last Friday, we've seen some horses win with rail trips. The only problem I have is they've had too many small fields.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Please Pm or post dates, and race # of breakdowns.
First you need to see what path and where on the track are the breakdowns, then where on the width of the final turn and stretch the ITM horses and also the horses ridden by the best jockeys are going.
One of the best indicators of bias in the stretch is which routers get the lead into the 1st turn, and which path is most favorable in the stretch for the also-rans.
If a number of breakdowns are occuring in the same general area of the track, especially with horses who do not have many indicators from my "leg problems" list, could very well be the track!
Often when tracks do have a dngerous or uneven track it is around the last turn; and since the steepest banking is on turns, that is where a rain effect may be worst under the surface.

[Valuist]

Ken-

I've been watching races for bias since the early 80s. I know how to take trip notes and what to look for. I tape most of the days that I can. Yes, the best jockeys avoided the rail (and the 2 path) for most of the meet.

As for the breakdowns, I've heard that the trouble spot is on the far turn, although there was a horse who broke down on the lead near the 1/8th pole yesterday. There was a greater than normal amount of rain in May so that may have contributed to some of the problems.

[BIG49010]

In the past Arlington has been hard on the backends of horses, and HAW has been the place that breaks them down in front.

I got a great idea, close Hawthorne, and put a polytrack at AP that runs from mothers day in May until Labor Day and use all the OTB money, etc for a short meet with high purses. World class track, with World class purses, then maybe we would have good racing at AP.


NAHHHHHHHHHHH We can't have that in Chicago, I must be dreaming.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Haw last year had a defined inside to outside bias around the whole track when I checked; Hoosier had problerms coming out of the far turn and the limestone base was crumbling- had to be totally redone.
From what I saw on this week's charts, stalkers were winning most races- early leaders were carrying on, sometimes with extremely fast fractions- until the far turn where the horses were breaking down, then most of the leaders regardless of wraps or fractions- were being passed. Quite a few of them were on the rail.
IMO the base is not holding up well in that area, they will look Monday but with only 1 week left in the meet they will have to do a quick temporary fix- maybe adding some kind of filler to the base, I do not know.
But for the last week of the meet, one of the safest things they can do is to keep sealing the track until the meet is over.

[sealord]

Valuist-
Wondering if you've heard anymore about AP tearing up the track over this coming weekend. It seems strange to do it so close to the 4th. By the way, do you play AP in person or from home?
Perhaps we might take in a day at the track in July. It seems you're the resident AP expert....maybe I can glean some knowledge from you one of these days.;)
-Jeff

PS-How's the turf course been playing out so far this year? I've only been down twice but can't wait until the Million.

[Valuist]

Sealord-

They tore it up and supposedly couldn't find anything wrong. They even brought in Joe King, who used to handle the NYRA tracks. But didn't NY tracks get better after he left? Seems like the biases we used to see in New York, for the most part, have gone away. In any event, they mentioned something about adding crushed up tree bark. I'm not sure what affect that will have.

I almost always play Arlington from home but I have a share in a horse that's supposed to run either Monday or Tuesday so I will be out there for that. Have PA give you my e-mail if you're going out there one of those days.

[kenwoodallpromos]

""We peeled the surface back and the cushion looks perfect," said Arlington's track superintendent Javier Barajas. "There's three-and-a-half inches of cushion all around, and it's firm."

Barajas is also considering adding pine bark to the surface to help the track retrian moisture and keep it from becoming too hard."
________
They did not even look at the base. 3 1/2" of cushion means every step the horse takes compresses the cushion to the base and any irregularity in the base will be evidenced on the surface, based on the PSI of a horse's foot. And of course, a "firm" cushion means it is harrowed to 2"+ and watered daily, and also on the far turn has a 4-6" bank with which to try and level.
The workout times yesterday were very slow (4f average 50.8), and back to normal (4f 49.6) today.
The best news is the meet will soon be over, and they can examine it closer.
I guess they are afraid of making the surface too hard. Too soft would be worse in this case if the problem is the base, all the above IMHO!
Good luck to them this week! I would not want my horse hugging the rail on the far turn!

[kenwoodallpromos]

wire jobs, sprints, under 23 and 47, most runners held close to position throughout races- I hope that means they sealed the track like I suggested to them, or at least decided to firm it up!
One 5f stumbled start, lost rider (on the backstretch?)
#1 and #2 horses were 4th or worse at 1st call both races, will inside be lousy today? Some horses seem to be doing ok near the rail during most of the races.

[Valuist]

Ken-

The meet won't be ending soon. They have over two months left. If the breakdowns continue, look for Arlington to join the Poly parade. I know that over the years they have had problems with the surface; not every year but every 3-4 years maybe. There's been a lot of rain this year and I wonder if that has something to do with it.

Haven't gotten to see any of today's races. I'm curious to see if that dead rail bias, prevalent until about 2 weeks ago, will return.

[horse1]

Ken-

The meet won't be ending soon. They have over two months left. If the breakdowns continue, look for Arlington to join the Poly parade. I know that over the years they have had problems with the surface; not every year but every 3-4 years maybe. There's been a lot of rain this year and I wonder if that has something to do with it.

Haven't gotten to see any of today's races. I'm curious to see if that dead rail bias, prevalent until about 2 weeks ago, will return.

arlington barely has purse money, let alone a funds available to install polly track.
if CD where to install polly at any of its tracks, i doubt that AP would be the one they start at.

[Valuist]

They are never going to do it at Churchill. Never
Hollywood is SUPPOSED to get it but I suspect they will fight it because they are only running a couple more years.
Ellis is in negotiations to be sold.
The Fair Grounds already has one of the best racing surfaces in the country. Won't happen there.
Hoosier? Sorry. Purses and handle are too low to warrant it.
Calder would be the only other one that would make sense w/all the rain they get.

[Valuist]

http://www.drf.com/news/article/80831.html

To paraphrase if you don't have a DRF account, Arlington is strongly considering going to Polytrack but would need the approval of the parent company (CDI) to do it. Considering the bad publicity they received this past year, I doubt CDI will stand in the way.

[BIG49010]

Hawthorne would be a better place to put it!

[kenwoodallpromos]

Anything to help the situation, because with the track just strip and the base declared good, there is nothing else to be done other than replacing the entire track crew and running workouts around the first turn.
I dop not believe I have heard anything about artificail surface being harder ti maintain in Il weather.

[Valuist]

I guess the next question is, who will get it next if Arlington gets it?

My money is on one of two CDI tracks: Calder and/or Hoosier. I guess Aqueduct would also be a logical candidate.

[Murph]

Not likely that Hoosier Park will be the next to convert to Poly.

Their track is a designed 7/8 mile standardbred surface with a limestone base. The original track consisted of the base - then seven layers of crushed limestone with each layer crushed more finely.

To prepare the thoroughbred surface the top few layers are scraped off
and then dirt is added to make the cushion. This cushion is removed after the thoroughbred meeting and the crushed limestone layers are replaced.

What we have ended up with is a mixed limestone and dirt surface for both
breeds. Each year the track gets a bit higher because they cannot totally remove either the limestone or the dirt.

Any major change to the track here will mean adding a turf course and making the track one mile in circumference. This won't happen before the passage of slots legislation. This track was designed and built rather quickly and it wasn't well thought out for thoroughbred racing at all.

I would like to see a brand new complex built with state of the art handicapping areas adjacent to the slots palace. A nice turf course would be almost too much to ask.

If slots are not forthcomming, Churchill Downs will eventually sell Hoosier Park and then we will be more on the level of Hazel Park or Lebanon. If this happens Indiana Downs will have succeded in their long term objective of ousting CDI from Indiana horseracing. They will then likely have their way with the racing schedule and control thoroughbred racing for themselves. That will be a sad day for Indiana horseracing if it goes like that for us.

Murph

[BIG49010]

Calder makes more sense than Arlington, they race 8 months a year, and many trainers would leave young horses to run and train on it. Also during the summer months it can rain buckets and then be sunny 20 minutes later.

[Valuist]

Murph-

I'd forgotten that they run harness there. It just seems like the track is muddy or sloppy almost every day. From what I've heard, I doubt slots would pass in Indiana. Seems like theres too many of the religious right there to pass further gambling legislation. Maybe I'm wrong on that but I have a few friends in Indy who say its that way.

[Valuist]

Calder makes more sense than Arlington, they race 8 months a year, and many trainers would leave young horses to run and train on it. Also during the summer months it can rain buckets and then be sunny 20 minutes later.

But Arlington had a huge problem with breakdowns. Apparently there's been about 60 breakdowns the past 3 years on their main track. The mainstream media in Chicago picked up on this story this summer and wouldn't let it die. From a PR standpoint, Arlington basically has no choice but to put it in.

[kenwoodallpromos]

But Arlington had a huge problem with breakdowns. Apparently there's been about 60 breakdowns the past 3 years on their main track. The mainstream media in Chicago picked up on this story this summer and wouldn't let it die. From a PR standpoint, Arlington basically has no choice but to put it in.
Yep, I'm not the only one crying wolf!!LOL!!

[Murph]

Murph-

I'd forgotten that they run harness there. It just seems like the track is muddy or sloppy almost every day. From what I've heard, I doubt slots would pass in Indiana. Seems like theres too many of the religious right there to pass further gambling legislation. Maybe I'm wrong on that but I have a few friends in Indy who say its that way.Two years ago (almost) the democrats would not pass the slots bill out of commitee. They said that was because the revenue split was not to their liking. Now the democrats control the house and they can get their bill to the floor and possibly passed in the senate.

The problem will be getting our man Mitch (R) to sign the bill. The dems will most likely send a bill that skews the distribution in the opposite direction than which he prefers. Since he is a lame duck this term, he will not sign the bill and leave it for the next governor.

With all forms of gambling now well established in Indiana the religious right is resigned to their fate. They cannot stop the expansion of gambling in Indiana any more than they can repeal it or change the constitution BACK to the way it was in the 1970's. I suggest that your sources may be a bit misinformed.

[Murph]

I suggest that your sources may be a bit misinformed.When you tell them I said that, please add that they can contact me for further discussion of Indiana horseracing anytime.
Just email to mike@thorostats.com

Murph

[Valuist]

Word I hear is that Arlington will be making a major announcement very soon (Thursday).....and is expected to announce that they will install a synthetic surface.

[kenwoodallpromos]

I must have missed the announcement in the news that the track checked out perfect in their recent extensive examination. Good thing they sent me the same conclusion in an email last week!
There was no mention that this info was private, so here it is:
__________
"----- Original Message -----
From: Ezzo, Mickey
To: kenwoodallpromos@msn.com
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 2:31 PM
Subject: RE: Arlington track inspection
Ken,
It's my understanding that Arlington officials advised the IRB that the inspection found nothing wrong with the base but this issue will be further discussed by the newly created Track Surface Task Force, made up of track personnel and Racing Board reps. I would e-mail your workout recommendation directly to Roy Arnold at Arlington (rarnold@arlingtonpark.com).
Thanks,
Mickey Ezzo
IRB"

[BIG49010]

Here's the announcement, you give us slots, we'll give you any kind of track you want to run them on :lol:

[beertapper]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chicago/chi-0612070063dec07,1,4823128.story?coll=chi-newslocalchicago-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

[Valuist]

Since I started this thread almost 6 months ago, do we dare say.......visionary? :)

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/horseracing/163426,CST-SPT-arl07.article

[cj]

I guess the former turf course will now be known as the "inner turf"?

[BIG49010]

It will be interesting to see if they can attract more horses, or will the horseman stay in Kentucky with the higher purses?

[Valuist]

I would expect quite a few to come up when Churchill closes. Before that, its hard to say. You'll probably see a few more shippers; horses that have won or run well over the Poly at Kee or TP will probably ship in more.

[BIG49010]

I wonder if they will keep it open for training year round and upgrade some of the barns for that purpose? I would think guys like Lukas, Pletcher, Blasi and Biancone might have a 100 stalls full of 2 year olds, if so.:jump:

[Valuist]

Won't happen. I've heard the barns at AP aren't designed to keep horses stabled over the winter. Maybe if they upgrade the barns but right now they're looking at a $8 to $10 million expense to install the Polytrack.