View Full Version : Big Brother Government
LutherCalvin
06-03-2006, 10:28 AM
A few weeks ago a U S Census worker came to my door, flashed her ID badge, and said that my address was randomly selected by the U S Census Bureau to complete a questionaire. I told her that I wasn`t interested in her survey and when she said that I would be paid for participating, I again repeated that I wasn`t interested. `Why?` she asked. I told her that I didn`t trust the government. She asked me to think about it, and said that she would be back. Yesterday, in the mail I received this intimidating envelope addressed `To the resident of` with my address on it. In bold black print was YOUR RESPONSE IS REQUIRED BY LAW. The envelope contained brochures about the `American Community Survey` and questionaire which the brochure said takes approximately 38 minutes to complete. There was nothing in there about any type of remuneration for completing the survey which asked 42 questions for each person living in the household. There was a threat, however, that a `penalty` is imposed for not responding and they cited Title 13, United States Code, Section 141 and 193) and Title 13 as changed by Title 18. This rubbed me the wrong way. I resent the intrusion on my privacy and the the lying census worker who tried to cajole personal information out of me. Since the theft of millions of veterans` social security numbers I am even more adamant about not providing any personal information to our government.
. Since the theft of millions of veterans` social security numbers I am even more adamant about not providing any personal information to our government.
This is the largest Security breach in United Sates history, and the Bush Adminsitration still will not be candid with the totality of it.
First they said the data only was names and SSI's.
Now, over the course of the last three weeks they have dribbed and drabbed bits and pieces to the media so the story stays below the fold.
This is what we know so far.
In addtion to names and SSI's, The records also contained our Date of Birth and Address's, and many case's telephone numbers.
Now we learned this week that the data also included a MUSTARD FOLDER with 6744 veterans personal and medical records. These veterans participated in Chemical Weapons testing programs with our Department of Defense.
Also disclosed this week was that the Data included 10 various "diagnostic codes" for the veterans current status. Supposedly these are disability related, but that's yet to determined.
The AP, using the Freedom of Information Act is the only reason we know what we now know. I'd bet you there is much more to come as well.
Secretariat
06-03-2006, 10:52 AM
Welcome to the new America.
At least you know the kind of questions being asked about you. It's the ones being asked about you at your local library you may have to worry about.
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/222/george-christian-interview.html
The interview with George Christian executive director of Library Connection, on the PBS Show NOW revealed how extreme it has become. As David Brancacio revealed a 100 letters a day are sent to libraries "requiring" libraries to reveal to the FBI books you are reading or your lending habits. Only recently have librarians been allowed to even reveal this, but they cannot reveal who or why is being checked. All this without a warrant or any due process.
btw..this is not a left or right issue as was revealed in the inteview as both the ACLU and Gun Owners of America stand behind the librarians and against this intrusion into our personal lives.
I'm sorry for your incident. I am empathetic.
Lie. Say you have 28 illegal dependants. Lie, lkie, lie.
If you have to go some place in person, show up hung over, dressed on very oooooold clothes, don't bath for a few days, eat garlic - and smear it all over your clothers - always breath heavily and directly in thier faces.
Fart. Burp. Gag. Scratch yourself frequently. Cough insesently. Walk through shit and make sure it sticks to your boots. Puke it possible, preferable on their table or better yet, on THEM! :lol:
Ask them to to repeat eveything - ask them to write it down and sign it. Tell them you want a lawyer. Suggest that your saw the interviewer on America's Most Wanted and demand the police be called.
If you are a man, and the interviewer is a man, come on to him - seriously. If he likes it, "nad" him and yell rape!
Whenever possible, play the race card, religion card, sex card, anything you can think of to make thier lives difficult.
All this is leagl. And fun.
In addtion to names and SSI's, The records also contained our Date of Birth and Address's, and many case's telephone numbers.
Now we learned this week that the data also included a MUSTARD FOLDER with 6744 veterans personal and medical records. These veterans participated in Chemical Weapons testing programs with our Department of Defense.
Also disclosed this week was that the Data included 10 various "diagnostic codes" for the veterans current status. Supposedly these are disability related, but that's yet to determined.
The AP, using the Freedom of Information Act is the only reason we know what we now know. I'd bet you there is much more to come as well.
I hope they get a real good lawyer and file class action suits for gross megligence. The guy that took this stuff home needs to be outed and suffer the consequences of a pissed of public. He shold be made to beg jail time for his own protection.
And whoever is the secraetary or director or whatever of this whole department needs criminal charges brought against him. This is unaccpetable and irrational repsonses are called for. Personal responses - bad ones. :mad:
kenwoodallpromos
06-03-2006, 02:08 PM
The Bush admin is close to Nazi-ism in USA spying.
Now they want everyone's web records for 2 years? LOL! He's trying for 10% approval!
Bush will insure a Demo Pres wins in 2008.
Ponyplayr
06-03-2006, 04:56 PM
The Bush admin is close to Nazi-ism in USA spying.
Now they want everyone's web records for 2 years? LOL! He's trying for 10% approval!
Bush will insure a Demo Pres wins in 2008.How else is the Government supposed to prevent a terrorist attack if they don't collect information? Where is the information going to come from?
I personally do not feel threatened by the Government, at least they are trying.
Look at what the Canadian authorities just found in Toronto..It can happen here.
Dave Schwartz
06-03-2006, 05:02 PM
Tom,
Fart. Burp. Gag. Scratch yourself frequently. Cough insesently. Walk through shit and make sure it sticks to your boots. Puke it possible, preferable on their table or better yet, on THEM!
Just curious... Do you ever have a hard time getting dates?
<G>
Dave
How else is the Government supposed to prevent a terrorist attack if they don't collect information? Where is the information going to come from?
I personally do not feel threatened by the Government, at least they are trying.
Look at what the Canadian authorities just found in Toronto..It can happen here.
Oh my god. Who had NORAD stand down on 9/11, a guy who just marched in with a Turbin on and said, Alexander Haig style, "I'm in charge here"?
Your government officials are complicit in terrorist acts at various levels, and these are to convince you to give up your civil liberties. It's the same game over and over. Terrrorize the populace into submission until they are glad to have mommy government dictate everything to them.
You probably think WACO, Pearl Harbor, OKC Murrah Building, WWII, WWI were all accidents right?
JustRalph
06-03-2006, 07:23 PM
You probably think WACO, Pearl Harbor, OKC Murrah Building, WWII, WWI were all accidents right?
what the hell do you think they were? You are treading closer to Moonbat status every post............conspiracy theories are old hat around here. you are singing an old tune.
what the hell do you think they were? You are treading closer to Moonbat status every post............conspiracy theories are old hat around here. you are singing an old tune.
Conspiracy theories? How about "All History is Accidental" Theories. Takes a lot of blind faith to believe that nonsense.
Second graders conspire, office workers conspire, blue-collar workers conspire, cheating spouses conspire, horse trainers, jockeys, owners conspire, mafia bosses conspire, but power lusting demonically inspired trillionaires (via central banks and other scams) never, never conspire to influence human history.
So what you're telling me is that people have tried to deprogram and undue your brainwashing but you've refused such treatment or that it hasn't worked for you. Mind if I call you Sheeple?
So what you're telling me is that people have tried to deprogram and undue your brainwashing but you've refused such treatment or that it hasn't worked for you. Mind if I call you Sheeple?
You want to get a thread going on the Rothchilds? Lehamn Brothers? Rockefellers? The Federal Reserve?
How about 80% of the worlds wealth is controlled by 500 people.
Of course they don't conspire...:faint:
Them and about 100,000 thousand of thier lawyers, surragates, defense industry billionaires and various coat holders find us all very amusing play things.
PaceAdvantage
06-03-2006, 08:01 PM
KoKo, it's unfortunate, especially in this day and age, what with the internet and all this information running about, that you have no proof to back your theories.
Sure, I have doubts about what brought the WTC down so quickly. I have doubts it was solely due to the planes and the burning jet fuel, when other buildings hit by planes and/or infernos that burned much longer never fell. Plus, building 7 certainly didn't have a plane hit it, and it fell too....odd....but I have no proof.
I have doubts about how supposedly novice pilots who supposedly had little to no experience flying "heavy" aircraft were able to travel at near top speed and hit all of their targets (the Pentagon is a miraculous feat of airmanship, taking into account the stress level the pilot must have been under, and again, the fact that these terrorists supposedly only flew in simulators and light aircraft prior to 9/11). But I have no proof.
Proof is even harder to find regarding your other theories.
So, KoKo, I have to ask you a question....
Do you have any proof?
PaceAdvantage
06-03-2006, 08:01 PM
Oh, and here is that link I promised regarding the Pentagon and the Airplane.
I'd like to hear from those that don't believe an airliner hit the Pentagon after they read this piece....
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/single.php?post=816414
Oh, and here is that link I promised regarding the Pentagon and the Airplane.
I'd like to hear from those that don't believe an airliner hit the Pentagon after they read this piece....
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/single.php?post=816414
I just read it.
This thread has become the single-most popular piece of content on AboveTopSecret.com, sparking inspired debate and research throughout the Internet. However, the volume of material and issues on this subject (and in this thread alone) is overwhelming, making specific conclusions difficult, and evolution beyond the issue of what hit the Pentagon impossible
I will only draw your attention one thing that struck me.
Go down to the 7th picture on the site you posted. The one with the hole. (2nd photo of entry point)
Fisrt of all, from every picture of the pentagon I've seen, it has a finish concrete facade.
However, two three things in that picture do not add up.
#1. It has a Brick veneer facade.
#2 It has a 2nd layer of a red Brick veneer behind the white brick.
And thirdly, look at the right side of the hole in the wall. There is no Concrete wall behind it. There is no way a brick veneer would stay intact while reinforced concrete crumbled or caved.
I also want to commend who ever hung that NO PARKING sign. Superb craftsmenship in that it sustained a 757 to its immediatte left....:lol:
now scroll down two pictures and you'll see in fact I'm right. The Pentagon has a finshed concrete facade. In picture 9 with the two men holding the ladder.
I'll look at again tommorrow.
KoKo, it's unfortunate, especially in this day and age, what with the internet and all this information running about, that you have no proof to back your theories.
Sure, I have doubts about what brought the WTC down so quickly. I have doubts it was solely due to the planes and the burning jet fuel, when other buildings hit by planes and/or infernos that burned much longer never fell. Plus, building 7 certainly didn't have a plane hit it, and it fell too....odd....but I have no proof.
I have doubts about how supposedly novice pilots who supposedly had little to no experience flying "heavy" aircraft were able to travel at near top speed and hit all of their targets (the Pentagon is a miraculous feat of airmanship, taking into account the stress level the pilot must have been under, and again, the fact that these terrorists supposedly only flew in simulators and light aircraft prior to 9/11). But I have no proof.
Proof is even harder to find regarding your other theories.
So, KoKo, I have to ask you a question....
Do you have any proof?
Here we go. Let's start here. When something is widely accepted by establishment institutions and citizenry, and those with opposing views are often dismissed as crackpots, it is very easy for any real critical thinking to be lacking, because after all, who needs to consider what the truth is when the establishment press, academia and government have drawn the people's/sheeple's conclusions for them. The "conspiracy theorists" as we'll call them will always have plenty of examination of their beliefs, because there are so many paid whores that are expected to carry and support the establishment storyline. Anyone who gets out of line can expect to have their career expectations downgraded at least, and quite possibly be further harassed and/or harmed.
So the establishment line is the one that always should be most closely examined and by no means should it ever be taken for granted, if you're one who understands that the establishment press was almost completely bought out by J.P. Morgan in the 1920's acting as an agent for the Rothschilds. The press is nothing more than a tool for the ruling elite, they are not concerned foremost with ratings and profits, contrary to what some might think. They are propaganda tools, which, if you'd studied real history, you'd realize that.
With that said, nobody needs to dissect any alternative theories to 9/11, until one has completely filled in all the holes in the "official story". By this time, if you haven't been able to or desired to find enough objective and circumstantial evidence to conclude that the "official story" is absolute lies, then you really don't want to know the truth.
I've spent hundreds of hours on another site trying to clue in a twentysomething sector of the public on this and other events, largely to no avail, partly because they just don't care. I'd have expected that this would be a somewhat more sohpisticated crowd here, but I'm not sure at this point.
I don't presume that what academicians, presstitutes and government officials tell me is the truth until or unless I discover differently. I try and understand why they might be off track and giving me a line of crap. That doesn't mean I never believe anything I hear or read from establishment sources, I simply consider the sources.
I've made the study of who run's the world one of my biggest avocations over the last couple decades, so examination of 9/11 is nothing different than so many psy-ops that we've been exposed to.
This isn't two weeks after the event when it's understandable that you haven't heard alternative versions of events, so again, if you haven't bothered to search out truth for yourself by now, you never will, so please don't get all sanctimonious with me if I choose not to spend 10 hours going over every item that doesn't fit the "official story". I'll give you a quick list and you can do your own research. If you want some sites, I can give you some and I'll be glad to.
1. Condi has foreknowledge and warned Willie Brown not to fly.
2. PNAC--Looking for a "pearl harbor" pre-9/11 (project for a new american century).
3. CIA visited OBL in hospital in Dubai, didn't bother to arrest him.
4. How did OBL know pentagon had "planes flying into buildings" going on that very day? He's not a moron, he would have known that none of the flights would make it anywhere if not.
5. Buildings implode perfectly from jet fuel, come on
6. ATTA Passport flies out of hell and lands on Manhattan street Ridiculous
7. Pilots couldn't fly shit
8. Where are the airport tapes showing 19 hijackers boarding planes. National security right? Give me a break will ya
9. FBI, CIA, NSA all over the operation, but higher ups all told line agents to back off, same story every operation, we bumbled, kind of like in 1993 when the FBI is telling the guy to go ahead and blow it up live, only he screwed up.
10. Option trades. If there was any suspicious trading activity, the SEC and NASD know about it instantaneously using Promis software among others. We knew within seconds who piled up ridiculously large trades, so why haven't they been held at guantanamo until they talked. Hummm silence on that count. If you pulled some trading moves of a large magnitude that gave strong evidence of foreknowledge of a crime, your ass would have been hunted down by the FBI in a HEARTBEAT. Where and who are the owners of these accounts with these trades that show evidence of foreknowledge, silence.
11. Bush says he watched the first tower go down on TV. Couldn't have, guess he got his story mixed up kind of like RUMMY did when he said flight 93 was shot down.
12. Cell phone calls--Didnt' happen. Of course it's WAYYYYYYY beyond intelligence agency capability to fake calls such as those. How about the one where the guy says Hi mom "this is Michael bergman" or whoever. Who says their last name when identifying themselves to their mom? Do you?
13. Pentagon--maybe a plane or a missle hit the pentagon, maybe a bomb, but flight 77 DIDN'T. Couldn't make those maneuvers.
14. Bid Laden Family flown out of U.S. next day, humm why would CARLYLE Group shareholders be in a hurry to leave their partners like Bush Sr. etc. etc.
15. Janitors, policemen, firemen who's stories don't at all fit the story, like plenty of explosives, little fire, etc. etc.
16. Building 7 being pulled by Silverstein.
17. All the obvious explosive charges going off all over the video when the planes apparently hit.
18. Flight manifests released right away, no arab names, did they all get on as BOB SMITH. Autopsies show NO ARABS.
19. Seven hijackers found alive all over the world the next day, oops.
OBL--Genius or idiot.
If he's an idiot, then how does he happen to pull it off the day NORAD is going to stand down. If he's a genius why wouldn't he do exactly like any other intelligence agency worth it's salt and use a false flag, i.e. mind-controlled israeli's so he could split the love affair of the two satanic powers and kill U.S. support for Israel, which is of course his goal, right? That would be the obvious move, no he'd rather throw a grenade right at the tank while standing in front of it, so that his movement can get blown to bits.
20. How about flight 93- crashed and left a 20 by 15 ft. hole with no traces of bodies, metal, looked like a small trash dump.
That's just the beginning. Osama Bin Laden didn't benefit from 9/11, other than the fact that perhaps the CIA gave him a large paycheck to be the "bad guy". Who benefitted? I don't even have to go into it, it's so obvious, but let's just say the people who are running the show for their puppet masters, who happen to be the same folks behind PNAC and other Zionist plans.
46zilzal
06-03-2006, 09:04 PM
13. Pentagon--maybe a plane or a missle hit the pentagon, maybe a bomb, but flight 77 DIDN'T. Couldn't make those maneuvers.
and all those eyewitnesses are all wrong. This is crazier than after the grassy knoll (which has a lot more evidence by the way)
13. Pentagon--maybe a plane or a missle hit the pentagon, maybe a bomb, but flight 77 DIDN'T. Couldn't make those maneuvers.
and all those eyewitnesses are all wrong. This is crazier than after the grassy knoll (which has a lot more evidence by the way)
The real videos from the gas station and the hotel would show just what happened, but alas, the same story, the FBI grabbed them and won't release them for National Security Reasons.
All the eyewitnesses say they saw an american airlines 757? Really, where can I read about that?
KoKo, it's unfortunate, especially in this day and age, what with the internet and all this information running about, that you have no proof to back your theories.
I don't know why you'd make such a ridiculously presumptuous statement PA.
46zilzal
06-03-2006, 09:31 PM
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/911_pentagon_eyewitnesses.html
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/911_pentagon_eyewitnesses.html
Lol. That site, has been around for years, and they SUPPORT the theory that our Govt is Lieing to us about 9/11. :)
This is what I want you to do. Do you have high speed internet, because I don't reccommend this for dialup.
This is a slide show, with text.
roughly 220 images......the first 40 or so you can scroll through quickly.
The rest, you need to read in great detail. (1 or 2 paragraphs each).
PA, I would like you to pay particular attention to slide #'s 188 and 211.
OK.
http://perso.orange.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/pages-en/npp-ips.html
http://news.uns.purdue.edu/UNS/images/sozen.pentagon2.jpeg
bigmack
06-03-2006, 09:55 PM
Everone has "data" or open ended questions that lead to conclusions that oftentimes are jaded by the minds eye of the reader/viewer.
Seems those folk, on both sides, that feel they've been exposed to or assimilated to more information than the average joe feels compelled to live in a world riddled with feeling that "they just don't get it".
No question - a whole lot of folk haven't seen or explored the sorted details of 911 and it's intricacies. No need for elitism to posture against those that are in your world "unaware". If you have valid points to make, do so. Give the 'uneducated' sources to edify and decide for themselves. This hit over the head education is futile on both sides.
46zilzal
06-03-2006, 09:57 PM
amazing. Look at things long enough, throw in a little photoshop and imagination then you've got a cottage industry to sell books and tapes
bigmack
06-03-2006, 10:40 PM
amazing. Look at things long enough, throw in a little photoshop and imagination then you've got a cottage industry to sell books and tapes
It is true Suff. As an Adobe Photoshop guy that shot is downright silly looking. Bring valid data and open the minds of the non-believers including me. Some of us are on the fence - give us data to question the trad. media presentation.
amazing. Look at things long enough, throw in a little photoshop and imagination then you've got a cottage industry to sell books and tapes
Fly a phoney passport from Hell unburnt and have it land on Donald Rumsfeld's desk and viola, you've got Arab Hijackers attacking us theory. Nicely scripted.
Do you guys believe that Sparticaus did the Pepsi Ad?
I mean, there is a video of him right there, drinking it.
Must have happened, right?
46zilzal
06-03-2006, 11:02 PM
Do you guys believe that Sparticaus did the Pepsi Ad?
I mean, there is a video of him right there, drinking it.
Must have happened, right?
or Groucho dancing in a Coke ad
lsbets
06-03-2006, 11:06 PM
or Groucho dancing in a Coke ad
Don't forget the talking Gecco or the AFLAC duck. Those have got to be real too!
AFLAC!
PaceAdvantage
06-03-2006, 11:16 PM
This isn't two weeks after the event when it's understandable that you haven't heard alternative versions of events, so again, if you haven't bothered to search out truth for yourself by now, you never will, so please don't get all sanctimonious with me if I choose not to spend 10 hours going over every item that doesn't fit the "official story".
I guess poor reading comprehension has affected us both. I believe I have stated numerous times that I am VERY familiar with most of the theories and "proof" given by the various 9/11 conspiracy theorists. EVERTHING you just listed I have already seen or read. EVERYTHING. There isn't one thing new to me on your list. I've already told you I am very familiar with it all in prior posts, including MY OWN THREAD THAT I STARTED, which can be found here:
9/11 becoming the new JFK assassination (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23758)
Does it bother you, that given the fact that I am well versed in all of this, I am still not conceding very much in the way of foreknowledge by the Bush Administration, based on your "proof?" I betcha it does, at least a little.
I'm a very even and level headed individual. I like to debate and investigate all sides of the story. You should take a step back and examine your "style" of badgering folks who haven't quite swallowed every drop of your Kool-Aid. Maybe we'll get there some day, maybe we won't, but despite your dogged insistence, your "proof" isn't all that convincing on many different fronts.
bigmack
06-03-2006, 11:20 PM
Ok Suff
Here's your one guy for folks edification:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5808928127721918445
I got this from my old friend Deep Throat......
I guess poor reading comprehension has affected us both. I believe I have stated numerous times that I am VERY familiar with most of the theories and "proof" given by the various 9/11 conspiracy theorists. EVERTHING you just listed I have already seen or read. EVERYTHING. There isn't one thing new to me on your list. I've already told you I am very familiar with it all in prior posts, including MY OWN THREAD THAT I STARTED, which can be found here:
9/11 becoming the new JFK assassination (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23758)
Does it bother you, that given the fact that I am well versed in all of this, I am still not conceding very much in the way of foreknowledge by the Bush Administration, based on your "proof?" I betcha it does, at least a little.
I'm a very even and level headed individual. I like to debate and investigate all sides of the story. You should take a step back and examine your "style" of badgering folks who haven't quite swallowed every drop of your Kool-Aid. Maybe we'll get there some day, maybe we won't, but despite your dogged insistence, your "proof" isn't all that convincing on many different fronts.
PA, Some good points. I didn't mean to imply that you hadn't looked into things. It's only natural to me, having viewed the issues extensively, that anyone looking at it objectively could easily conclude one thing. That is, the official story is not true. Regardless of exactly how or what happened, the official story line script was planned and given to the presstitutes for endless repeating to brainwash the public.
Yes, my tone is nasty at times, I'll readily admit. I do like intelligent discourses, and those are hard to find since those believing the official line seem to have few valid arguement and simply depend on "authorities" like the 9/11 commission or military or government officials, which based on what's being claimed by those believing in an alternative reality, have no credibility whatsoever.
You're free to "not be sure" if the official story is true. I think that if you've really looked into things and can't admit that it's clearly not, then I don't know what else could possibly convince you that it doesn't hold water at all. To each his own.
Yes, my tone is nasty at times, I'll readily admit. I do like intelligent discourses, and those are hard to find since those believing the official line seem to have few valid arguement and simply depend on "authorities" like the 9/11 commission or military or government officials, which based on what's being claimed by those believing in an alternative reality, have no credibility whatsoever.
What you mean is anyone who disagrees with you can't be intelligent.
Yet you have not offered one shred of real evidence on any thread or on any topic - just your holier-than-thou attitude and insults when you get called out. You really think this government is smart enough to pull of a massive conspiracy like this? If they are, we sure as hell should get behind them because they would be smarter than all of us.
lsbets
06-04-2006, 12:06 AM
Let's presume for a moment that there really is this deep dark conspiracy and that this secret group rules the world. Let us also presume that Koko knows all about it, as he has stated here many times. If that were the case, wouldn't it be reasonable to wonder why these all powerful men continue to allow Koko to exist and spread the truth? Shouldn't the black helicopters have picked him up by now and whisked him away to some unknown location to be eliminated? :faint:
Or.........they PUT him here! To discredit the conspiracy theories.
So far, it's working! :lol:
lsbets
06-04-2006, 12:12 AM
Or.........they PUT him here! To discredit the conspiracy theories.
So far, it's working! :lol:
Karl Rove! Its always him! He's working for Karl Rove to make a mockery of those who are seeking the real truth! Damn that Rove, he is so evil! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Let's presume for a moment that there really is this deep dark conspiracy and that this secret group rules the world. Let us also presume that Koko knows all about it, as he has stated here many times. If that were the case, wouldn't it be reasonable to wonder why these all powerful men continue to allow Koko to exist and spread the truth? Shouldn't the black helicopters have picked him up by now and whisked him away to some unknown location to be eliminated? :faint:
Great logic. You must have won lots of debates in your time.
These morons quoted in this video all believe that conspiracy nonsense too. What a bunch of fruitcakes.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7818517319031331141
Calipso Louie would say:
His first name is Karl. Use the first letter.
That's a K.
His second name is Rove. Use the second letter.
That's a O.
There are two names, so do it twice.
That's Ko Ko.
So go ahead, believe the government - but this just proves what is really going on here. If you chose to not believe, than so be it.
Great logic. You must have won lots of debates in your time.
These morons quoted in this video all believe that conspiracy nonsense too. What a bunch of fruitcakes.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7818517319031331141
And they all say it wasn't an airplane, eh?
lsbets
06-04-2006, 12:30 AM
So Koko, why have you not been picked up if you have stumbled onto these truths? I was actually hoping you would offer some kind of real answer, if for nothing other than amusement.
And they all say it wasn't an airplane, eh?
Watch the video. Watching boob tubes is probably something you're real proficient at.
lsbets
06-04-2006, 12:36 AM
His first name is Karl. Use the first letter.
That's a K.
His second name is Rove. Use the second letter.
That's a O.
Tom, did you go see the DaVinci code this weekend?
So Koko, why have you not been picked up if you have stumbled onto these truths? I was actually hoping you would offer some kind of real answer, if for nothing other than amusement.
I've got your amusement.
Watch the video. Watching boob tubes is probably something you're real proficient at.
I watched it. I found it intersting for second grade level. The music track was nifty. I saw no connectin to 9-11 whatsoever. Dang, I knew graduating would come back to bite me in the arse someday!
I watched it. I found it intersting for second grade level. The music track was nifty. I saw no connectin to 9-11 whatsoever. Dang, I knew graduating would come back to bite me in the arse someday!
Who said it had anything to do with 9/11? I found it real intersting toooooooooooooooo.
Tom, did you go see the DaVinci code this weekend?
No - probably won't. I don't go to many movies. Last one was Return of the King! And I watched the first two on video - LOL!
I just saw the Revenge of the Sith for the first time tonight. Price was right.
You do know that the government puts subliminal suggestions in movies in theaters, don't you? Can't do it on TV because they are all made in Japan, and the satellite waves are not compatible.
I watched it. I found it intersting for second grade level.
That's exactly why I advised you to watch it, it was perfect for you.
By the way, speaking of elementary school, why can't little Tommy spell?
lsbets
06-04-2006, 12:47 AM
I can't remember the last time I went to see a movie in the theater. It might have been Blackhawk Down, and that was only because a friend of mine really wanted to see it with me. Before that, my wife and I went to see Changing Lanes (it was the only thing playing in our theater that seemed like it might be good) the night before she was supposed to be induced with our son, and her water broke halfway through the movie!
But, I did watch Chicken Little on pay per view with the kids the other night. And since we recorded it, I've seen it about 700 times since then. :bang:
I can spell "b-u-t-t-h-e-a-d"
And "k-o-o k-o-o"
And "g-o-o-d-b-y-e"
PaceAdvantage
06-04-2006, 12:49 AM
That's exactly why I advised you to watch it, it was perfect for you.
By the way, speaking of elementary school, why can't little Tommy spell?
Well, it's painfully obvious KoKo can't operate in a moderated environment such as this one. For someone so adept at figuring out the crime of the century, he sure is slow as molasses when it comes to figuring out the rules of this board, even though they are spelled out in black and white upon registration and under the TOS (http://www.paceadvantage.com/TOS_PrivacyStatement.html) link in the menu bar.
I've given him (or her) so many chances to right the wrongs, but the trolling and flaming continue.....I've had my fun at least.....but now even I grow weary.
I have a sneaking suspicion those black helicopters are closer than we think. He may never be heard from again (at least under the name KoKo) after this night is over....
lsbets
06-04-2006, 12:49 AM
I can spell "b-u-t-t-h-e-a-d"
And "k-o-o k-o-o"
And "g-o-o-d-b-y-e"
Karl Rove has 8 letters, so does butthead.
You might be on to something with your detective work Tom!
PaceAdvantage
06-04-2006, 01:22 AM
1. Condi has foreknowledge and warned Willie Brown not to fly.
At the very least, a half truth. Nowhere was it reported that Ms. Rice was the one who "warned" Willie Brown
PNAC--Looking for a "pearl harbor" pre-9/11 (project for a new american century).
The full quote is: "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event — like a new Pearl Harbor."
Not proof. Sorry.
3. CIA visited OBL in hospital in Dubai, didn't bother to arrest him.
Do you just make this stuff up as you go along? Again, NOT PROOF. I reproduce part of a story that reasonably rebuts this rather flaccid story:
PARIS (Reuters) - The CIA rejected as fantasy claims in a new book that it tried to negotiate a non-aggression pact with Osama bin Laden just two months before the September 11, 2001 airliner attacks against the United States.
Richard Labeviere, author of "The Corridors of Terror," released on Thursday, says the CIA's Dubai station chief approached bin Laden while the al Qaeda leader was being treated for a serious kidney complaint in the United Arab Emirates.
He said the meeting took place in the American Hospital in Dubai on July 12, barely eight weeks before al Qaeda militants slammed fuel-laden hijacked airliners into the Pentagon and New York's World Trade Center, killing almost 3,000 people. "Such an allegation is sheer fantasy, no such thing occurred," CIA spokesman Mark Mansfield said, echoing an earlier rebuttal by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency of French media reports in October 2001 about the alleged Dubai meeting.
Labeviere said he learned of an encounter from a contact in the Dubai hospital, and said the event was confirmed in detail during a separate interview in New York with a Gulf prince who presented himself as an adviser to the Emir of Bahrain.
4. How did OBL know pentagon had "planes flying into buildings" going on that very day? He's not a moron, he would have known that none of the flights would make it anywhere if not.
I can't even understand what you are trying to say here....is that English?
5. Buildings implode perfectly from jet fuel, come on
Again, not proof of anything.
6. ATTA Passport flies out of hell and lands on Manhattan street Ridiculous
Certainly, you would agree, that this is not proof. And stranger things have happened in Manhattan, I can guarantee you that.
7. Pilots couldn't fly shit
And you know this how? Again, not proof of anything.
8. Where are the airport tapes showing 19 hijackers boarding planes. National security right? Give me a break will ya
Absence of evidence is not proof.
9. FBI, CIA, NSA all over the operation, but higher ups all told line agents to back off, same story every operation, we bumbled, kind of like in 1993 when the FBI is telling the guy to go ahead and blow it up live, only he screwed up.
I'm confused again. So I'll let you have one.
10. Option trades. If there was any suspicious trading activity, the SEC and NASD know about it instantaneously using Promis software among others. We knew within seconds who piled up ridiculously large trades, so why haven't they been held at guantanamo until they talked. Hummm silence on that count. If you pulled some trading moves of a large magnitude that gave strong evidence of foreknowledge of a crime, your ass would have been hunted down by the FBI in a HEARTBEAT. Where and who are the owners of these accounts with these trades that show evidence of foreknowledge, silence.
Excellent point. I give you this one as well. However, this does not prove WHO had foreknowledge, just that SOMEBODY or SOMEBODYS certainly did....and that goes without saying. Certainly SOMEONE knew this was going to happen....and if they were bold and evil enough to go through with the act, then they were certainly bold enough to try and profit handsomely from it as well....
11. Bush says he watched the first tower go down on TV. Couldn't have, guess he got his story mixed up kind of like RUMMY did when he said flight 93 was shot down.
Come on, give me a break! Bush bashers are posting his gaffes all over the internet almost EVERY SINGLE DAY, but NOW we're supposed to take what he said THIS ONE PARTICULAR TIME as GOSPEL!!!!???!!! That's TOO funny!
12. Cell phone calls--Didnt' happen. Of course it's WAYYYYYYY beyond intelligence agency capability to fake calls such as those. How about the one where the guy says Hi mom "this is Michael bergman" or whoever. Who says their last name when identifying themselves to their mom? Do you?
Again, not proof. And if they were going to fake calls, do you think they'd be stupid enough to fake one where a guy calls his mom and uses his last name? I'll give you half a point on this one, although I know for a fact you could make cell phone calls from a plane that high back in 2001....
13. Pentagon--maybe a plane or a missle hit the pentagon, maybe a bomb, but flight 77 DIDN'T. Couldn't make those maneuvers.
Couldn't make the maneuvers, or difficult to make those maneuvers? Big difference. Until actual proof is uncovered, I can't give you this one either.
14. Bid Laden Family flown out of U.S. next day, humm why would CARLYLE Group shareholders be in a hurry to leave their partners like Bush Sr. etc. etc.
This one is strange and shady. But proof? Don't think so....
15. Janitors, policemen, firemen who's stories don't at all fit the story, like plenty of explosives, little fire, etc. etc.
Ask 100 people to observe the same event, and you're likely to get lots of different interpretations. Not proof.
16. Building 7 being pulled by Silverstein.
Proof of something very fishy, but not proof of Bush Administration foreknowledge.
17. All the obvious explosive charges going off all over the video when the planes apparently hit.
Seen lots of videos, but never saw obvious explosive charges going off all over the video THE MOMENT THE PLANES HIT THE BUILDING. Care to point out a video clip?
18. Flight manifests released right away, no arab names, did they all get on as BOB SMITH. Autopsies show NO ARABS.
This is proof of foreknowledge?
19. Seven hijackers found alive all over the world the next day, oops.
OBL--Genius or idiot.
Not really. Claims are made, but definitive proof has never been found or shown.
If he's an idiot, then how does he happen to pull it off the day NORAD is going to stand down. If he's a genius why wouldn't he do exactly like any other intelligence agency worth it's salt and use a false flag, i.e. mind-controlled israeli's so he could split the love affair of the two satanic powers and kill U.S. support for Israel, which is of course his goal, right? That would be the obvious move, no he'd rather throw a grenade right at the tank while standing in front of it, so that his movement can get blown to bits.
This really isn't proof, it's more of a monologue.
20. How about flight 93- crashed and left a 20 by 15 ft. hole with no traces of bodies, metal, looked like a small trash dump.
I don't know enough of the details of the crash site to comment. You can have this one.
OK, I've addressed every one of your points. I'm still completely middle of the road. Addressing all these issues once again in such a compact time frame hasn't swayed me to your side one bit from where I was. In fact, it probably has pushed me more in the opposite direction. Almost none of what you present constitutes proof of foreknowledge by the Bush Administration, which is the original point of debate between you and I, is it not?
So go ahead, and call me a few more choice names. It will make it that much easier....
And just so you know, my spelling is pristene....unlike yours I might add....MISSLE?????? (for starters)
At the very least, a half truth. Nowhere was it reported that Ms. Rice was the one who "warned" Willie Brown
The full quote is: "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event — like a new Pearl Harbor."
Not proof. Sorry.
Do you just make this stuff up as you go along? Again, NOT PROOF. I reproduce part of a story that reasonably rebuts this rather flaccid story:
PARIS (Reuters) - The CIA rejected as fantasy claims in a new book that it tried to negotiate a non-aggression pact with Osama bin Laden just two months before the September 11, 2001 airliner attacks against the United States.
Richard Labeviere, author of "The Corridors of Terror," released on Thursday, says the CIA's Dubai station chief approached bin Laden while the al Qaeda leader was being treated for a serious kidney complaint in the United Arab Emirates.
He said the meeting took place in the American Hospital in Dubai on July 12, barely eight weeks before al Qaeda militants slammed fuel-laden hijacked airliners into the Pentagon and New York's World Trade Center, killing almost 3,000 people. "Such an allegation is sheer fantasy, no such thing occurred," CIA spokesman Mark Mansfield said, echoing an earlier rebuttal by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency of French media reports in October 2001 about the alleged Dubai meeting.
Labeviere said he learned of an encounter from a contact in the Dubai hospital, and said the event was confirmed in detail during a separate interview in New York with a Gulf prince who presented himself as an adviser to the Emir of Bahrain.
I can't even understand what you are trying to say here....is that English?
Again, not proof of anything.
Certainly, you would agree, that this is not proof. And stranger things have happened in Manhattan, I can guarantee you that.
And you know this how? Again, not proof of anything.
Absence of evidence is not proof.
I'm confused again. So I'll let you have one.
Excellent point. I give you this one as well. However, this does not prove WHO had foreknowledge, just that SOMEBODY or SOMEBODYS certainly did....and that goes without saying. Certainly SOMEONE knew this was going to happen....and if they were bold and evil enough to go through with the act, then they were certainly bold enough to try and profit handsomely from it as well....
Come on, give me a break! Bush bashers are posting his gaffes all over the internet almost EVERY SINGLE DAY, but NOW we're supposed to take what he said THIS ONE PARTICULAR TIME as GOSPEL!!!!???!!! That's TOO funny!
Again, not proof. And if they were going to fake calls, do you think they'd be stupid enough to fake one where a guy calls his mom and uses his last name? I'll give you half a point on this one, although I know for a fact you could make cell phone calls from a plane that high back in 2001....
Couldn't make the maneuvers, or difficult to make those maneuvers? Big difference. Until actual proof is uncovered, I can't give you this one either.
This one is strange and shady. But proof? Don't think so....
Ask 100 people to observe the same event, and you're likely to get lots of different interpretations. Not proof.
Proof of something very fishy, but not proof of Bush Administration foreknowledge.
Seen lots of videos, but never saw obvious explosive charges going off all over the video THE MOMENT THE PLANES HIT THE BUILDING. Care to point out a video clip?
This is proof of foreknowledge?
Not really. Claims are made, but definitive proof has never been found or shown.
This really isn't proof, it's more of a monologue.
I don't know enough of the details of the crash site to comment. You can have this one.
OK, I've addressed every one of your points. I'm still completely middle of the road. Addressing all these issues once again in such a compact time frame hasn't swayed me to your side one bit from where I was. In fact, it probably has pushed me more in the opposite direction. Almost none of what you present constitutes proof of foreknowledge by the Bush Administration, which is the original point of debate between you and I, is it not?
So go ahead, and call me a few more choice names. It will make it that much easier....
And just so you know, my spelling is pristene....unlike yours I might add....MISSLE?????? (for starters)
No. My point is simply this. The "official story" is NOT TRUE. If this is the case, then it's certainly not the "official story" by accident, but it was the planned story from before the event. So what you're saying is you're not sure if the official story is true or not? Is that a statement you can now make? If so, I find that really sad.
If the "official story" is true, there shouldn't be ANY holes in it. The truth doesn't have holes in it.
JustRalph
06-04-2006, 01:52 AM
Koko, As someone who has been the first responder on 2 different aircraft crashes, and I mean the first person there........... and as someone who has a pilots certificate, I can tell you that a bunch of the crap you are relying on to progress your theory is total unadulterated conspiracy theorist spooge! It is uneducated at best and just plain stupid at worse. I pronounce you,
Cuckoo for KoKo Puffs!
Koko, As someone who has been the first responder on 2 different aircraft crashes, and I mean the first person there........... and as someone who has a pilots certificate, I can tell you that a bunch of the crap you are relying on to progress your theory is total unadulterated conspiracy theorist spooge! It is uneducated at best and just plain stupid at worse. I pronounce you,
I'm not relying on anything to progress my theory. If you believe the official 9/11 "story" then you are a total ______________ in my book.
I've got your pronunciation right here Racist Ralph.
bigmack
06-04-2006, 02:14 AM
you are a total ______________ in my book.
I've got your pronunciation right here Racist Ralph.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it Ralph.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it Ralph.
You're the Klansman that never starts anything right LittleCrack?
bigmack
06-04-2006, 02:25 AM
Calling Ralph a Racist and me a Klansman seems a tad unstable don't it KK?
Not at all based on your posts, it seems quite accurate.
Why do you keep sending me ignorant PM's. I haven't responded to any of them and won't. What I will do is finish things between us. You like to start them, and I've always been known as a finisher on and off the court.
bigmack
06-04-2006, 02:54 AM
Not at all based on your posts, it seems quite accurate.
Why do you keep sending me ignorant PM's. I haven't responded to any of them and won't. What I will do is finish things between us. You like to start them, and I've always been known as a finisher on and off the court.
Site a start on my part.
Site a start on my part.
The word is Cite as in Citation. Why should I bother? I know what you've posted and where you've started crap with me. I don't need to go dig it up to prove anything to you. Get a life ex-janitor.
bigmack
06-04-2006, 03:06 AM
I always learn something from you KK.
Like pedantic meaning parental? That was rich.
Thanks for all the deep knowledge you share with us all. You're gifted.
LittleCrack,
Busted, disgusted and can't be trusted.
LittleCrack,
Busted, disgusted and can't be trusted.
when you fellows cat fight it's unproductive and unattractive.
I for one, fault you mostly. If we ( you and I) hold views that are not mainstream, and unpopular. We will find ourselves unpopular with the mainstream. Therefore, it is incubment on us to be aware that we will receive "push back". At those times is when it is most important we hold our tempers, be firm and calm in our delivery, and confident in our knowledge and facts.
When you respond by name calling, demeaning someone's intelligence and thier profession, it hurts your views.
I understand your frustration. But keep in mind, some of us have been around here for 3 or 4 years now. We've knocked heads over virtually every major current event. Still, you ( I, we) need to be able to come back and have civil discussions about horses or other news.
Your relatively new here. Your a bright guy and you opinions could be worth something down the road. But don't blow up the bridge so early on. Calm down, take a few on the chin and roll with the punchs.
when you fellows cat fight it's unproductive and unattractive.
I for one, fault you mostly. If we ( you and I) hold views that are not mainstream, and unpopular. We will find ourselves unpopular with the mainstream. Therefore, it is incubment on us to be aware that we will receive "push back". At those times is when it is most important we hold our tempers, be firm and calm in our delivery, and confident in our knowledge and facts.
When you respond by name calling, demeaning someone's intelligence and thier profession, it hurts your views.
I understand your frustration. But keep in mind, some of us have been around here for 3 or 4 years now. We've knocked heads over virtually every major current event. Still, you ( I, we) need to be able to come back and have civil discussions about horses or other news.
Your relatively new here. Your a bright guy and you opinions could be worth something down the road. But don't blow up the bridge so early on. Calm down, take a few on the chin and roll with the punchs.
Good words Suff. Although there is a certain Turkey here that needs the stuffing kicked out of him and I'd love to do it.
Point 18. No arabs found in autopsys - duh - there were no autopsys done - there were NO BODIES. There was nothing found from the strike zones or the airplanes - there was no OFFICE FURNITURE fouond in the rubble.
How would an autopsy tell an arab from a jew from an indian from an irishman? THe bodies were burned up - what, you think there is a little label inside - Made in Arabia? 100% Scotch?
I have never seen such ignorance all in one place before. Wiat!, yes I have - that video last night- the one from the Institute of UN-learning! Someone here is summa cum laude!
So far, you have only offered iron clad proof of one thing.......:sleeping:
Point 18. No arabs found in autopsys - duh - there were no autopsys done - there were NO BODIES. There was nothing found from the strike zones or the airplanes - there was no OFFICE FURNITURE fouond in the rubble.
How would an autopsy tell an arab from a jew from an indian from an irishman? THe bodies were burned up - what, you think there is a little label inside - Made in Arabia? 100% Scotch?
I have never seen such ignorance all in one place before. Wiat!, yes I have - that video last night- the one from the Institute of UN-learning! Someone here is summa cum laude!
So far, you have only offered iron clad proof of one thing.......:sleeping:
It's hard to prove to a moron that he's breathing. What do I have to prove? Prove that the ridiculous bullshit you believe is true you ___________
lsbets
06-04-2006, 10:39 AM
A pattern continues - Koko says no Arabs found in autopsies, Tom points out there were no autopsies done. Koko's response? Anger at Tom.
Ping...............................
A pattern continues - Koko says no Arabs found in autopsies, Tom points out there were no autopsies done. Koko's response? Anger at Tom.
Tom doesn't know autopsies from autos and doesn't know shit from shineloa.
What's new?
lsbets
06-04-2006, 10:54 AM
Tom doesn't know autopsies from autos and doesn't know shit from shineloa.
What's new?
Koko, people might be more open minded to your ideas if when a valid criticism about your contentions is pointed out you respond with something other than anger towards the person who debunks your comments. However, your inability to back up your contentions and your unwillingness to even attempt to do so virtually ensures that folks will regard you as little more than a troll.
Koko, people might be more open minded to your ideas if when a valid criticism about your contentions is pointed out you respond with something other than anger towards the person who debunks your comments.
If you think that little Tommy has debunked anything, you're deluded.
Answer one question ISBETS. Do you or do you not believe the veracity of the "official" 9/11 story? Yes or No.
lsbets
06-04-2006, 11:03 AM
If you think that little Tommy has debunked anything, you're deluded.
Answer one question ISBETS. Do you or do you not believe the veracity of the "official" 9/11 story? Yes or No.
Until I see something credible with some kind of proof, not just speculation that doesn't hold up when challenged, the answer is yes. You want to change that to a no? Be able to respond when your basic assertions are shown to be obviously false.
Until I see something credible with some kind of proof, not just speculation that doesn't hold up when challenged, the answer is yes. You want to change that to a no? Be able to respond when your basic assertions are shown to be obviously false.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
You'll never see proof because you're absolutely brainwashed. Don't even bother looking for any, YOU'LL NEVER FIND IT. Not because it isn't all around you, but because you're a programmed mind-controlled slave.
lsbets
06-04-2006, 11:11 AM
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
You'll never see proof because you're absolutely brainwashed. Don't even bother looking for any, YOU'LL NEVER FIND IT. Not because it isn't all around you, but because you're a programmed mind-controlled slave.
Once again, Koko cannot back up his assertions and responds with anger.
Koko - I'll ask again. If you know so much about this vast conspiracy, why are you allowed to exist and spead the truth? Wouldn't they want to silence those who would try to uncover them?
Once again, Koko cannot back up his assertions and responds with anger.
Koko - I'll ask again. If you know so much about this vast conspiracy, why are you allowed to exist and spead the truth? Wouldn't they want to silence those who would try to uncover them?
Anger? The buildings melted just like the wicked witch in the Wizard of OZ?
Got it robot?
Collapsed. Not melted,
Do you understand english words?
Perhaps a night class would help.
Collapsed. Not melted,
Do you understand english words?
Perhaps a night class would help.
We should all be like little Tommy who believes whatever the establishment press and government officials say, because they are there to help us and tell us the truth always. How did you ever get so completely stupid? Were you born that way or were you programmed for utter stupidity? You really should be in a labratory to be studied.
I bet you say that to all the guys! :kiss:
I bet you say that to all the guys! :kiss:
Let me say this with Tommy Spelling. ur no ghuy, ur a khunt.
Let me say this with Tommy Spelling. ur no ghuy, ur a khunt.
nice meeting you.
nice meeting you.
The feeling is mutual. Frankly, I kind of knew the numnuts I'd run into in this part of the forum, and knew that you could sit a dossier with all evidence in the world before them and they would still CHOOSE to remain in their programmed state. I understand, many are programmed today, it's quite common, and hard to break out of, unless one is intent on realizing truth.
lsbets
06-04-2006, 12:33 PM
The feeling is mutual. Frankly, I kind of knew the numnuts I'd run into in this part of the forum, and knew that you could sit a dossier with all evidence in the world before them and they would still CHOOSE to remain in their programmed state. I understand, many are programmed today, it's quite common, and hard to break out of, unless one is intent on realizing truth.
What dossier? When your "evidence" has been challenged on its most basic assertions you have been completely unable and unwilling to back it up.
The feeling is mutual. Frankly, Ih.
You need to get up and take a walk around the block.
What I meant was you crossed the line and after a couple of warnings your .10 to be tossed out of here when the administrator see's that post.
Most of what happens here in off topic is babble. Killing time between races, or waiting for the horn to sound so people can punch out.
It's a horse racing messgae board. People choose not to get 9 feet deep into these major international issue's. Yea.. it gets hot, and everyone here has gotten heated at some point or another.
But you waded in here and got too ugly to quick and that probably means you gotta go.
It was nice meeting you and I share many of your convictions and doubts.
What dossier? When your "evidence" has been challenged on its most basic assertions you have been completely unable and unwilling to back it up.
You're the one that should be on the defensive palsy. You believe a story that is laughable. What do you have to bring to rebut the 20 points I made?
Half of NYC knew the official story wasn't right within a week, now plenty of material is out to show the official story is a total fabrication, and you're still clinging to it. And you see yourself as logical? Please. Brainwashed and programmed is what you are. Now rebut my 20 points.
lsbets
06-04-2006, 12:47 PM
You're the one that should be on the defensive palsy. You believe a story that is laughable. What do you have to bring to rebut the 20 points I made?
Half of NYC knew the official story wasn't right within a week, now plenty of material is out to show the official story is a total fabrication, and you're still clinging to it. And you see yourself as logical? Please. Brainwashed and programmed is what you are. Now rebut my 20 points.
A variety of posters have replied to virtually every one of your points in one form or another showing them to be either highly speculative, lacking any proof, and in a couple of cases outright false. Your response has always been the same - no response to the criticisms, just attacks on those looking critically at your comments. Seriously, if you want to be seen as credible, you have to be able to defend your assertions when they come under the mild examinations that they have here.
46zilzal
06-04-2006, 12:53 PM
Half of NYC knew the official story wasn't right within a week, now plenty of material is out to show the official story is a total fabrication, and you're still clinging to it. And you see yourself as logical? Please. Brainwashed and programmed is what you are. Now rebut my 20 points.
Where is this HALF? one would think they would speak up
Where is this HALF?
In New York city
Funny ( sad ) thing is, he really thinks he made 20 points!
Gotta admit, he did count to 20 corrrectly. That amazed me! :lol:
Overachiever.
KoKo - prove to me that there ever WERE two towers!
that would be a start - maybe even YOU could prove that!:sleeping:
Where is this HALF?
Who's buried in Grant's Tomb? What color is a white horse? For what sport were tennis shoes invented?
Were would we find NYC residents? Humm. Indianapolis? Congo? Berkeley?
Zilzalville? Who knows?
Now, over the course of the last three weeks they have dribbed and drabbed bits and pieces to the media so the story stays below the fold.
.
See what I'm saying? On a Saturday mind you. When the % of people watching and reading the news drops by greater than 50%.
They released this yesterday.
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Personal data on up to 50,000 active Navy and National Guard personnel were among those stolen from a Veterans Affairs employee last month, the government said Saturday in a disclosure that goes beyond what VA initially reported.
VA Secretary Jim Nicholson said in a statement that his agency discovered after an internal investigation that the names, Social Security numbers and dates of birth of up to 20,000 National Guard and Reserve personnel who were on at least their second active-duty call-up were "potentially included."
In addition, the same information on up to 30,000 active-duty Navy personnel who completed their first enlistment term prior to 1991 also were believed to stored on the computer laptop and disks stolen from a VA data analyst at his Aspen Hill, Maryland, home on May 3.
The VA has previously said ..:confused: the stolen data involved up to 26.5 million veterans discharged since 1975, as well as some of their spouses; veterans discharged before 1975 also were deemed at risk if they submitted claims to the agency
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/06/03/va.theft.ap/index.html
46zilzal
06-04-2006, 01:31 PM
now I know. This is the same poster who comes back with different names. Same style, same irrationality
JustRalph
06-04-2006, 03:45 PM
You like to start them, and I've always been known as a finisher on and off the court.
I am a racist huh? Great........
On and off the court? So you are a basketball player? So what the hell does that have to do with the ignorant threads you have run amok in over the last few days.........................you are a piece of work. Probably a teenager huh?
Go away..........troll bait! You guys continue to wander the net acting like assholes for your own satisfaction..........do you even have your pants on?
PA, punch this guys ticket.........he deserves it.
A finisher, eh?
When does he START? :lol:
PaceAdvantage
06-04-2006, 06:38 PM
Tom doesn't know autopsies from autos and doesn't know shit from shineloa.
What's new?
Well, I hadn't seen the new posts in this thread when I wrote in the other one about Koko.....
I take back what I said.
Screw him....not worth it....
Good thing I don't shine my shoes too often, eh? :lol:
Ponyplayr
06-05-2006, 12:37 AM
My goodness did I start this.. All I said is, I don't mind the government collecting information. They busted two individuals in Atlanta linked to the Canadian group.
Fascist regime or a government doing all it can to protect us? I guess it's a question of perspective.
Hey pony.. it was good exercise! Need to blow out the pipes wvery so often, you know? ;)
After all, we come here for entertainment, right? :D
Secretariat
06-05-2006, 01:13 PM
My goodness did I start this.. All I said is, I don't mind the government collecting information. They busted two individuals in Atlanta linked to the Canadian group.
Fascist regime or a government doing all it can to protect us? I guess it's a question of perspective.
I've no problem with the government collecting information. THey have always done so with consent or within the 4th amendment of the Bill of Rights.
"Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. "
kenwoodallpromos
06-05-2006, 02:28 PM
That is the part of the constitiution that Bush wants to ignore.
Ponyplayr
06-05-2006, 06:49 PM
That is the part of the constitiution that Bush wants to ignore.How are they ignoring it? I believe the Bush administration has clearly stated who they are searching and what they are seizing. Everybody and everything!
What are the alternatives. Wait for the attacks to happen then look for them!
We have no choice.
Ponyplayr
06-05-2006, 06:52 PM
Hey pony.. it was good exercise! Need to blow out the pipes wvery so often, you know? ;)
After all, we come here for entertainment, right? :D
I hear you..Think I might consult a lunar chart before I post about Bush again. :)
betchatoo
06-05-2006, 07:27 PM
How are they ignoring it? I believe the Bush administration has clearly stated who they are searching and what they are seizing. Everybody and everything!
What are the alternatives. Wait for the attacks to happen then look for them!
We have no choice.
He has the choice of obeying the constitution that he swore to uphold
PaceAdvantage
06-05-2006, 08:09 PM
He has the choice of obeying the constitution that he swore to uphold
If he believes he is upholding the constitution by doing everything he can to provide for the common defense, then what?
Then we rely on the checks and balances of the other two branches to agree or stop him. No one man is higher than the law - not even Bush, or should I say, especlally Bush. It seems to me, he has had ample opportuntiy to obain the legal warrants, but has he? Has he done anyhting to try to obey the laws of the land? I am having serious doubts.
And weren't YOU the one who was so upset that we were giving the terrorists too much credit a few weeks ago?;) If they don't pose such a big threat, why should we compromise our freedoms?
betchatoo
06-06-2006, 08:26 AM
If he believes he is upholding the constitution by doing everything he can to provide for the common defense, then what?
If he believes he is upholdong the constitution by trampling on the rights of this country's citizens then he needs to re-read the document.
JustRalph
06-06-2006, 08:31 AM
What the hell are you guys talking about? Bush has not denied anybodies 4th amendment rights? I would like to kick the guy in the ass, but I have yet to see where he has violated anybodies rights?
Is "Anybodies" the right spelling.........man, I can't wake up this morning.....
I would love to see the name of one person who's rights have been violated. But I think the issue here is not htat, but that there is acourt set up for this and he, as far as I know, ignores it. What is the NEXT thing he ignores? I thinkthe threat here is more dangerous than the terroists present. No matter what pretenses he uses, real or imagined, we are a nation of laws, not men. Bush has to work within the system, or change it.
I fully agree we need flexibility to gather info on threats, but there is no reason at all he cannot go back and cover everyhting properly. Instead of wasting time on this stupid ammendment bullshit.
Would you buy a used car from George W Bush?
betchatoo
06-06-2006, 11:09 AM
What the hell are you guys talking about? Bush has not denied anybodies 4th amendment rights? I would like to kick the guy in the ass, but I have yet to see where he has violated anybodies rights?
Is "Anybodies" the right spelling.........man, I can't wake up this morning.....
I would respectfully disagree
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
I think going through citizen's private phone conversations, library records and EMails without cause or warrent does violate this amendment.
By the way, not that it's important, it's anybody's
JustRalph
06-06-2006, 11:37 AM
I think going through citizen's private phone conversations, library records and EMails without cause or warrent does violate this amendment.
We can debate this all day. But they didn't do any of that. They recorded via computer, as pure data, info only. They didn't listen to any phone calls. They looked for patterns via software application that was developed and authorized under Bill Clinton. Hell, half the data hasn't even been analyzed yet. Millions of bits and bytes. The overseas calls to known Al Qaeda hotbeds are the first things they are looking at.
I will say it again. This program stopped a bombing in my hometown. I think it falls under the presidents purview in the constitution and the FISA court was created to make people happy about "oversight" and that is it. In fact 5 judges who previously served on the FISA court have said that they agree the stuff Bush and Congress did was legal. Remember, many members of Congress were briefed on this several times.
betchatoo
06-06-2006, 02:12 PM
We can debate this all day. But they didn't do any of that. They recorded via computer, as pure data, info only. They didn't listen to any phone calls. They looked for patterns via software application that was developed and authorized under Bill Clinton. Hell, half the data hasn't even been analyzed yet. Millions of bits and bytes. The overseas calls to known Al Qaeda hotbeds are the first things they are looking at.
I will say it again. This program stopped a bombing in my hometown. I think it falls under the presidents purview in the constitution and the FISA court was created to make people happy about "oversight" and that is it. In fact 5 judges who previously served on the FISA court have said that they agree the stuff Bush and Congress did was legal. Remember, many members of Congress were briefed on this several times.
You're right JR. We can debate this all day and we aren't going to agree. There are just as many judges and congressmen who believe this to be illegal.
As far as "all they did was gather data, they didn't use it," if a thief just gathered in your money and didn't spend it, wouldn't it still be theft? Spying on private citizens without cause is wrong.
PaceAdvantage
06-06-2006, 04:38 PM
And weren't YOU the one who was so upset that we were giving the terrorists too much credit a few weeks ago?;) If they don't pose such a big threat, why should we compromise our freedoms?
Maybe I'm just brainwashed, but I don't feel as though my freedoms have been compromised.
Given what has happened over the past 5 years, I think things have been handled quite well.
You and I maybe have not felt the loss of freedom yets, but then again, the Greek Orthodox didn't fell anyhting when Jews started disappearing. Now, I am NOT making a nazi reference as what is goin on, but the way to avoid the ever happening again is to keep governemtn on a very tight reighn and fighting them at every turn, Being a conservative, I hate big government and big government unchecked can only go one direction - and it is NOT towards the betterment of the people. Bush is already a pawn of big business and what about the next guy - he comes in farther down that slippery slope and where will he take us?
I would sooner stop ALL anti terroist activites and take my chances than give any freedoms. Al Qeda, on its best day, can only do so much here - our governement has the potential to do unilateral damage.
Either we go by the constitution or we don't.
See what I'm saying? On a Saturday mind you. When the % of people watching and reading the news drops by greater than 50%.
They released this yesterday.
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Personal data on up to 50,000 active Navy and National Guard personnel were among those stolen from a Veterans Affairs employee last month, the government said Saturday in a disclosure that goes beyond what VA initially reported.
VA Secretary Jim Nicholson said in a statement that his agency discovered after an internal investigation that the names, Social Security numbers and dates of birth of up to 20,000 National Guard and Reserve personnel who were on at least their second active-duty call-up were "potentially included."
In addition, the same information on up to 30,000 active-duty Navy personnel who completed their first enlistment term prior to 1991 also were believed to stored on the computer laptop and disks stolen from a VA data analyst at his Aspen Hill, Maryland, home on May 3.
The VA has previously said ..:confused: the stolen data involved up to 26.5 million veterans discharged since 1975, as well as some of their spouses; veterans discharged before 1975 also were deemed at risk if they submitted claims to the agency
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/06/03/va.theft.ap/index.html
And yet again!!
VA admits theft included data on
2.2 Million ACTIVE DUTY TROOPS!!
WASHINGTON (AP) — Personal data on about 2.2 million active-duty military and Guard personnel — not just 50,000 as initially believed — were among those stolen from a Veterans Affairs employee last month, the government said Tuesday.
VA Secretary Jim Nicholson said the agency was mistaken when it said over the weekend that up to 50,000 Navy and National Guard personnel — and no other active-duty personnel — were affected by the May 3 burglary.
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When can we have supporters of this administration take a stand on www.paceadvantage.com (http://www.paceadvantage.com/)? Take a godamn stand. These people may share your values, they may share your ideals and philsophies on life. But they are dishonest and incompetent.
They are clearly incompetent. You can support a Republican agenda and election success, but to continue to back this group is wildly irresponsible.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-06-06-veterans-data_x.htm
Anyone know - the guy that caused all this by taking home data - was a dem or republican? Just curious. Not that it matters.
Also curiious, were the policies in effect when this happened changed when the dems were booted outof power? COULD it have happened under Clinton's watch, but luckily did not?
Befreo you go making this a political issue, some facts are needed. Incompetance did not start in 2000 - it was runninig rampant long befreo that. To blame this on a political party is nonsense unles you can show me a direct connection to something different that allowed it to happen.
I have already posted that the director of this agency needs to be fired or posecuted and the individual publically outed and persecuted by wackos willing to do so.
Lefty
06-07-2006, 11:40 AM
A few weeks ago a U S Census worker came to my door, flashed her ID badge, and said that my address was randomly selected by the U S Census Bureau to complete a questionaire. I told her that I wasn`t interested in her survey and when she said that I would be paid for participating, I again repeated that I wasn`t interested. `Why?` she asked. I told her that I didn`t trust the government. She asked me to think about it, and said that she would be back. Yesterday, in the mail I received this intimidating envelope addressed `To the resident of` with my address on it. In bold black print was YOUR RESPONSE IS REQUIRED BY LAW. The envelope contained brochures about the `American Community Survey` and questionaire which the brochure said takes approximately 38 minutes to complete. There was nothing in there about any type of remuneration for completing the survey which asked 42 questions for each person living in the household. There was a threat, however, that a `penalty` is imposed for not responding and they cited Title 13, United States Code, Section 141 and 193) and Title 13 as changed by Title 18. This rubbed me the wrong way. I resent the intrusion on my privacy and the the lying census worker who tried to cajole personal information out of me. Since the theft of millions of veterans` social security numbers I am even more adamant about not providing any personal information to our government.
I went through the same thing and it started back during the Clinton admin. I cooperated for a while(very mundane questions btw, but I finally told them to bother someone else in the neighborhood, that I was done and that was that.
I don't think it's some big govt conspiracy; the census has been around a while, y'know.
wonatthewire1
06-07-2006, 08:39 PM
Incompetance did not start in 2000 - it was runninig rampant long before that.
truer words could not be said... :(
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