there is enough hate in this world already

[46zilzal]

Bush backs amendment banning gay marriage

By Nedra Pickler / Associated Press

WASHINGTON - President Bush will promote a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage on Monday, the eve of a scheduled Senate vote on the cause that is dear to his conservative backers.

The amendment would prohibit states from recognizing same-sex marriages. To become law, the proposal would need two-thirds support in the Senate and House, and then be ratified by at least 38 state legislatures.

what two consenting adults do is their business and it isn't as if this type arrangement is anything NEW to the world.

[lsbets]

How is believing that marriage is something that can only happen between a man and a woman hateful? Personally, I am against any federal action vis a vis marriage of any kind - its a states issue, but we here in Texas should not be forced to recognize gay marriages performed in another state.

I voted for the Texas ballot initiative banning gay marriage. I would also vote for a similar initiative banning polygamy. Does that mean I hate polygamists?

Please explain how that is hateful.

[Snag]

46, taking a position against something does not equal hate. Why would you title your post that way when nothing in the post is about hate.

[JustRalph]

46, taking a position against something does not equal hate. Why would you title your post that way when nothing in the post is about hate.


because he is a :

http://www.morbid.demon.co.uk/troll-half-mask.jpg

[lsbets]

:lol: :lol: :lol: Nice pic Ralph, what else is in your arsenal?

[Secretariat]

46...great post.

For one, WHY is he backing an amendment like this??? Why NOT a BALANCE BUDGET AMENDMENT??? An amendment polls show people across the country have been in support of years?? It is as this article demonstrates pure politics at its worst.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060603/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush

Bush backs federal marriage amendment

By DEB RIECHMANN, Associated Press Writer 24 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - President Bush on Saturday backed a resolution to amend the Constitution to define marriage as a union between a man and a woman even though the idea has little chance of being passed in the Senate.

The article then goes onto quote Bush to say:

"Ages of experience have taught us that the commitment of a husband and a wife to love and to serve one another promotes the welfare of children and the stability of society," Bush said in his Saturday radio address. "Marriage cannot be cut off from its cultural, religious and natural roots without weakening this good influence on society."

Well, interesting over half of marriages between a man and a woman end up in divorce, and there is a whole child welfare support system that may challenge his statement. Besides his statement does not mean the commitment of a husband has to be a male or female.

He is pandering to the lowest common denominator in people, prejudice. It has everything to do with values. Prejudicial ones. Frankly, I don't feel this is even an issue deserving of a national poltical debate as as 46 says, what people do in their bedroom is their business. Why the conservatives want to enforce "Big Government" to get involved is beyond me? I thought conservatives were for smaller government, not bedroom invasion?

[Mike at A+]

This is a no brainer. An overwhelming majority of Americans are:

1.) For equal rights for same sex couples
2.) Against same sex marriage

Let's continue to call it a civil union but lat's also give all same sex couples the exact same rights as conventionally married couples. Use of the word marriage should be reserved for one man and one woman.

[Suff]

hate? What hate? No hate here? Wait, let me look behind the curtain. Nope, no hate there. let me look under my desk. Nope, no hate? Where is that darn hate?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia

[Suff]

This is a no brainer. An overwhelming majority of Americans are:

1.) For equal rights for same sex couples
2.) Against same sex marriage

Let's continue to call it a civil union but lat's also give all same sex couples the exact same rights as conventionally married couples. Use of the word marriage should be reserved for one man and one woman.

That's all. Easy. That'll solve everything and get it off the national radar.

It's odd that we can agree something is ok, just as long as you don't call it by a certain word. Human beings are a very strange animal.

[Tom]

Thisis just a politcal ploy - to have a bill - although a failed one - to wave at the consrevative base and say LOOK! WE tried. Nobody gives this any chance whatsoever of passing the congress, let alone 75% of the states. It is not hate, it is politics. The adminsitartion cannot point to anything of real issues bbecasue they are failing and have no plan to fix things.
At this juncture, why would anyone expect this WH and Cenate to address anything of substance or offer any solutions to anything - THEY are the problem.

[Suff]

Thisis just a politcal ploy - to have a bill - although a failed one - to wave at the consrevative base and say .

President Bush read a childrens book for 7 minutes after he learned (knew it was coming) our Country was under attack. However he summoned Air Force 1 and raced back to Washington to save Terri Schiavo when the Senate jerked the country off with that complete waste of time.

[PaceAdvantage]

President Bush read a childrens book for 7 minutes after he learned (knew it was coming) our Country was under attack.

Why not just skip the formalities and simply post the picture of Bush with his hands on the radio controls guiding the planes into the buildings......:rolleyes:

[Koko]

Why not just skip the formalities and simply post the picture of Bush with his hands on the radio controls guiding the planes into the buildings......:rolleyes:

PA,

Don't tell me that you're one of those who still buy the "official" 19 little arab boys did it all by themselves and no one high up in intelligence, military and finance circles had a clue or took part in planning or execution.

[Suff]

PA,

Don't tell me that you're one of those who still buy the "official" 19 little arab boys did it all by themselves and no one high up in intelligence, military and finance circles had a clue or took part in planning or execution.

No, worse than that. He knows, both factually and intuitivley that's not the truth but he refuses to discuss it openly.

You know,..... its that.....

I can't bring myself to admit that the guy I voted for would do something like that.

But down deep he knows, and has brought himself to the lip of the truth on occasion. *search the threads. he knows.....but he does'nt want to talk about it, never mind admit it.

[Mike at A+]

President Bush read a childrens book for 7 minutes after he learned (knew it was coming) our Country was under attack.

And I suppose you believe that he should have jumped out of his chair and scared the crap out of those children and then disappear into a phone booth and put on a Superman suit. Is that what Michael Moore would have done? Oh wait, they don't make Superman suits in his size.

[bigmack]

PA,

Don't tell me that you're one of those who still buy the "official" 19 little arab boys did it all by themselves and no one high up in intelligence, military and finance circles had a clue or took part in planning or execution.
That's what I believe. That 19 little arab boys did it all by themselves and no one high up in intelligence, military and finance circles had a clue or took part in planning or execution. Is there proof otherwise?

[Suff]

And I suppose you believe that he should have jumped out of his chair and scared the crap out of those children and then disappear into a phone booth and put on a Superman suit. Is that what Michael Moore would have done? Oh wait, they don't make Superman suits in his size.

Actually, there are plans for such occurences. Many plans, depending on the circumstances of the attack. Remember, he has the football. The Secret Service has 100's of scenarios and a plan of action associated with each one.

Jump up? Who said anything about "Jumping"

How about stand up, "excuse me kids, something very important has come up and I need to go. I'll do my best to come see you again real soon. Ok? Sorry. Bye bye.

You wanna drop more marvel comic platitudes on me?

[Suff]

That's what I believe. That 19 little arab boys did it all by themselves and no one high up in intelligence, military and finance circles had a clue or took part in planning or execution. Is there proof otherwise?

What proof do you have?

[lsbets]

What proof do you have?

I think the Kennedy's were behind the plot, I have never seen any proof otherwise. :lol:

[Mike at A+]

Actually, there are plans for such occurences. Many plans, depending on the circumstances of the attack. Remember, he has the football. The Secret Service has 100's of scenarios and a plan of action associated with each one.

Jump up? Who said anything about "Jumping"

How about stand up, "excuse me kids, something very important has come up and I need to go. I'll do my best to come see you again real soon. Ok? Sorry. Bye bye.

You wanna drop more marvel comic platitudes on me?

Sure he has "the football". Are you suggesting nukes being depolyed in that seven minutes? Who do we hit? Every Muslim country? Just Afghanistan? Iran maybe? And what would be the reactions of Ted Kennedy, Al Gore, Nancy Pelosi, Howard Dean, Harry Reid, Jesse Jackson, Barbara Boxer, the Clintons, 99% of Hollywood, the New York Times, the Dixie Chicks ...... etc etc .... The bottom line is that a few days were taken by those in charge, cooler heads prevailed and a plan of action was drafted. And no aspirin factories were bombed.

[Koko]

Sure he has "the football". Are you suggesting nukes being depolyed in that seven minutes? Who do we hit? Every Muslim country? Just Afghanistan? Iran maybe? And what would be the reactions of Ted Kennedy, Al Gore, Nancy Pelosi, Howard Dean, Harry Reid, Jesse Jackson, Barbara Boxer, the Clintons, 99% of Hollywood, the New York Times, the Dixie Chicks ...... etc etc .... The bottom line is that a few days were taken by those in charge, cooler heads prevailed and a plan of action was drafted. And no aspirin factories were bombed.

Friends don't let friends believe mindless propaganda spewed out from every orifice in establishment media, academia and government. Apparently you ned a few friends to set you straight. Did you get the A+ in Advanced Gullibility?

[Suff]

Sure he has "the football". Are you suggesting nukes being depolyed in that seven minutes?


I'm suggesting his reaction was inappropiatte for starters.


Who do we hit? Every Muslim country? Just Afghanistan? Iran maybe?


I'm not suggesting he push the button. I'm suggesting he get up and find out what was going on, at a minimum.

It also , in my view, is circumstancial that he knew it was coming.


And what would be the reactions of Ted Kennedy, Al Gore, Nancy Pelosi, Howard Dean, Harry Reid, Jesse Jackson, Barbara Boxer, the Clintons, 99% of Hollywood, the New York Times, the Dixie Chicks ...... etc etc .... The bottom line is that a few days were taken by those in charge, cooler heads prevailed and a plan of action was drafted. And no aspirin factories were bombed.


Thank god, and goodness, that the War's we did NEED to win, and did win, a Democrat was at the Helm.

[Suff]

http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm


The site runs Horizontal.

[46zilzal]

Thank god, and goodness, that the War's we did NEED to win, and did win, a Democrat was at the Helm.
let's just say a capable guy. If there had been a war when Ike was president, he would have done well. Both Teddy and Abraham were capable as well no matter their political affliations

[Mike at A+]

Friends don't let friends believe mindless propaganda spewed out from every orifice in establishment media, academia and government. Apparently you ned a few friends to set you straight. Did you get the A+ in Advanced Gullibility?

Media? Oh you mean the liberal media that has opinions aand conspiracy theories for everything and reports them as news? THAT media? Ain't no "gullibility" in my life. A politician has to EARN my vote. I helped re-elect this president because I like his attitude that America will no longer turn the other cheek to this terrorist BS that has infected civilization. Kill them first before they get us. And if we happen to get a few "innocent civilians" who happen to be hanging near confirmed targets, TOO EFFIN BAD.

[lsbets]

let's just say a capable guy. If there had been a war when Ike was president, he would have done well. Both Teddy and Abraham were capable as well no matter their political affliations


Umm, there was a war when Ike was President, and Abraham too - that one was not only the most important for us to win, but also the bloodiest in our history.

[46zilzal]

Umm, there was a war when Ike was President, and Abraham too - that one was not only the most important for us to win, but also the bloodiest in our history.
ah yes the undeclared "police action?"

Us? were you a part of that one too??

[Mike at A+]

http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm


The site runs Horizontal.

Ah yes - French site. Must be authentic.

[Tom]

Actually, there are plans for such occurences. Many plans, depending on the circumstances of the attack. Remember, he has the football. The Secret Service has 100's of scenarios and a plan of action associated with each one.

Jump up? Who said anything about "Jumping"

How about stand up, "excuse me kids, something very important has come up and I need to go. I'll do my best to come see you again real soon. Ok? Sorry. Bye bye.

You wanna drop more marvel comic platitudes on me?

Or, how about, "Kids, I have to go back to DC - John Kerry is sitting stunned, unable to move, for 42 minutes now (by his own admission) I have to go try CPR on him!" :lol:

[lsbets]

ah yes the undeclared "police action?"

Us? were you a part of that one too??

Interesting that when Suff uses "we" to talk about the country we are citizens of you take no exception, yet when I use "us" you find something there to take exception with.

Are you naturally a fool or do you have to work hard at it?

[46zilzal]

I have a good friend who works two blocks from the Pentagon. There was really a plane there that day.

[Suff]

Media? Oh you mean the liberal media that has opinions aand conspiracy theories for everything and reports them as news? THAT media? Ain't no "gullibility" in my life.


Come on man. Your words are verbatim of O'rielly, Hannity, Ingram, Limbaugh. There is virtually nothing "independent" in your opinion.

Your repeating. I think your closed minded.


A politician has to EARN my vote. I helped re-elect this president because I like his attitude that America will no longer turn the other cheek to this terrorist BS that has infected civilization.

Threats exist, and must be dealt with. Since niether you nor I know the extent of DIA, or CIA activity abroad, then you can't say we've turned any cheek. For all you know, we been causing a lot of trouble internationally with Corporations acting as our surrogates.



Kill them first before they get us. And if we happen to get a few "innocent civilians" who happen to be hanging near confirmed targets, TOO EFFIN BAD.


Logisticly impossible. Tactically foolhardy, and strategically flawed.

But it works on TV.

[Koko]

Look A+,

If they weren't already in the know, the secret service would have shot up and stepped on the 3rd graders to get the president out of the classroom in an instant.

[Suff]

I have a good friend who works two blocks from the Pentagon. There was really a plane there that day.

Why do you say shit like that? huh?

I know a guy, who also said there was a plane there that day. His name is Don Rumsfeld.

Do you see a F'ing plane? or is your anecdotal story all you need?

Your friend....geesh.

[Suff]

Look A+,

If they weren't already in the know, the secret service would have shot up and stepped on the 3rd graders to get the president out of the classroom in an instant.

BANG! You are 100% correcto mundo!

They knew!!!!!!

When the Country goes under attack they Bundle up the President and Roll out!!

[Koko]

Suff,

Don't waste your breath here. The People, excuse me, the Sheeple of PA have spoken. No gullibility here. The best slaves are those that believe they are free. This here is my A+ slave, he's a keeper, never gives me any trouble.

[Suff]

Ah yes - French site. Must be authentic.

You want I send you 100 others sites from 100 other places?

That must be your open mindedness you mentioned.

Site's from France. No Good.

[46zilzal]

Why do you say shit like that? huh?

I know a guy, who also said there was a plane there that day. His name is Don Rumsfeld.

Do you see a F'ing plane? or is your anecdotal story all you need?

Your friend....geesh.
want his e-mail address?

[Suff]

Here's the passenger manifest from all the Planes.


Find the Terrorists.


http://www.geocities.com/mknemesis/passengers.html

btw, A1. Note the word Massachusetts as you scroll

[Mike at A+]

Suff,

Don't waste your breath here. The People, excuse me, the Sheeple of PA have spoken. No gullibility here. The best slaves are those that believe they are free. This here is my A+ slave, he's a keeper, never gives me any trouble.

Ah yes, the personal attack. Once libs realize they aren't going to convert their detractors to their side of the fence, the attacks begin. At least it isn't as bad here as it was on the AOL pre-election message boards where my mother was verbally attacked in response to my views.

Oh and Suff, I don't need O'Reilly, Hannity, Ingraham and Limbaugh to formulate my opinions. Common sense gets me all the formulation I need. But I do love the way Ann Coulter gets under Bob Beckel's skin.

[bigmack]

Suff,

Don't waste your breath here. The People, excuse me, the Sheeple of PA have spoken. No gullibility here. The best slaves are those that believe they are free. This here is my A+ slave, he's a keeper, never gives me any trouble.
This guy is big on personal attacks. He just can't hep it.
We're all just ignorant Sheeple and don't get it. I trust he'll get it at some point.

[Suff]

Ah yes, the personal attack. Once libs realize they aren't going to convert their detractors to their side of the fence, the attacks begin. At least it isn't as bad here as it was on the AOL pre-election message boards where my mother was verbally attacked in response to my views.

Oh and Suff, I don't need O'Reilly, Hannity, Ingraham and Limbaugh to formulate my opinions. Common sense gets me all the formulation I need. But I do love the way Ann Coulter gets under Bob Beckel's skin.

yo man,..........I'm a smart guy. If you had your way, Ted Kennedy would be in Jail, and the NY times would be boarded up.

I have all kinds of Tolerance for opposition. It is this RIGID conservativism that blames its opponents for its failings.

[Mike at A+]

You want I send you 100 others sites from 100 other places?

That must be your open mindedness you mentioned.

Site's from France. No Good.

Thanks but no thanks. I don't need Michael Moore, Barbra Streisand, Rosie O'Donnell or 97 other anti-American idiots with agendas spewing their garbage on my monitor. I get my news from reputable sources like CNN and Fox.

[Koko]

Mike at A+,

That fact that you phrase things in the classic liberal-conservative paradigm says worlds about your reality, and your need for a reality check. Then the fact that you refer to me as a liberal is even more whacked.

There is only ONE POLITICAL PARTY in the U.S. and that is the one run by a cabal of the Jesuits/Int'l Finance including the Rothschilds and assorted European Royalty.

Truth doesn't have holes in it. The "official" 9/11 "story" has more holes than swiss cheese.

Since you're obviously not aware, most all terrorist incidents and groups are creations of the puppet masters behind the scenes, but that's way too deep for you no doubt.

So you voted for someone you believed in huh? Here's a guy who claims to be a Christian who, in his spare time cavorts with other Satanists in Skull and Bones. Let me clear things up for you bro. Is he a Satanist posing (however poorly) as a Christian, or a Christian who's simply "playing a gentlemanly game of Satanist" with his buddies now and then.

It's real simple. Real christians don't play satanist. Real Satanists put on all sorts of fronts, particularly Christian ones. So you either knowingly voted for a Satanist, or aren't sharp enough to figure out who he really is.

Ever look into the Bush Crime Family History, or real history of any sort for that matter.

[PaceAdvantage]

No, worse than that. He knows, both factually and intuitivley that's not the truth but he refuses to discuss it openly.

You know,..... its that.....

I can't bring myself to admit that the guy I voted for would do something like that.

But down deep he knows, and has brought himself to the lip of the truth on occasion. *search the threads. he knows.....but he does'nt want to talk about it, never mind admit it.


Yes, search the threads and tell me where I have contradicted myself? Yes, I admit there are many questions that I would like better answers to, but in no way do I believe with any smidgen of certainty that this administration had enough foreknowledge of these attacks that they could have prevented them and chose to stand idly by.

Suff, nothing you have posted (with the exception of that Google movie) I haven't seen before.

I read a fairly good rebuttal to the "no plane at the Pentagon theory." When I get to my email later, I'll post the link here....

[Mike at A+]

yo man,..........I'm a smart guy. If you had your way, Ted Kennedy would be in Jail, and the NY times would be boarded up.

I have all kinds of Tolerance for opposition. It is this RIGID conservativism that blames its opponents for its failings.

TK should have been prosecuted years ago after driving his car into a lake and leaving a young girl in the prime of her life to slowly die as he went home to sober up and avoid a breathalizer. But the statute of limitations probably protects his fat azz. How about his nephew going to vote at 3 AM, crashing his car and also skating away?

Regarding the Times, their agenda is quite obvious. Nothing criminal in my opinion but their circulation seems to have suffered by printing a lot of BS.

[Koko]

Thanks but no thanks. I don't need Michael Moore, Barbra Streisand, Rosie O'Donnell or 97 other anti-American idiots with agendas spewing their garbage on my monitor. I get my DAILY STREAM OF PROPAGANDA from reputable PROPAGANDA sources like CNN and Fox.

Now you're speaking some truth for a change.

[lsbets]

I read a fairly good rebuttal to the "no plane at the Pentagon theory." When I get to my email later, I'll post the link here....

Probably the best rebuttal is those who saw a plane go into the Pentagon, like 46's friend. But, some people will believe whatever they want to, no matter what.

[PaceAdvantage]

There is only ONE POLITICAL PARTY in the U.S. and that is the one run by a cabal of the Jesuits/Int'l Finance including the Rothschilds and assorted European Royalty.

Here we go.....nothing new here either.....for me at least....wait until he gets to the Federal Reserve.....

So you voted for someone you believed in huh? Here's a guy who claims to be a Christian who, in his spare time cavorts with other Satanists in Skull and Bones. Let me clear things up for you bro. Is he a Satanist posing (however poorly) as a Christian, or a Christian who's simply "playing a gentlemanly game of Satanist" with his buddies now and then.

John Kerry was a Skull and Bones guy too....I guess we were screwed either way....

Ever look into the Bush Crime Family History, or real history of any sort for that matter.

Is that anything like the Clinton Arkansas Crime Family (exactly HOW MANY people have been killed or died mysteriously who were associated with the Clintons)?

Or more like the Kennedy Massachusetts Crime Family? I'm confused....

Ah screw it! Tony Soprano for President in 2008!!!

[Mike at A+]

Mike at A+,

That fact that you phrase things in the classic liberal-conservative paradigm says worlds about your reality, and your need for a reality check. Then the fact that you refer to me as a liberal is even more whacked.

There is only ONE POLITICAL PARTY in the U.S. and that is the one run by a cabal of the Jesuits/Int'l Finance including the Rothschilds and assorted European Royalty.

Truth doesn't have holes in it. The "official" 9/11 "story" has more holes than swiss cheese.

Since you're obviously not aware, most all terrorist incidents and groups are creations of the puppet masters behind the scenes, but that's way too deep for you no doubt.

So you voted for someone you believed in huh? Here's a guy who claims to be a Christian who, in his spare time cavorts with other Satanists in Skull and Bones. Let me clear things up for you bro. Is he a Satanist posing (however poorly) as a Christian, or a Christian who's simply "playing a gentlemanly game of Satanist" with his buddies now and then.

It's real simple. Real christians don't play satanist. Real Satanists put on all sorts of fronts, particularly Christian ones. So you either knowingly voted for a Satanist, or aren't sharp enough to figure out who he really is.

Ever look into the Bush Crime Family History, or real history of any sort for that matter.

Thanks but I've heard it all before. I hope you didn't take the time to type all of that and had it ready with a quick copy and paste like most libs do.

[Koko]

wait until he gets to the Federal Reserve.....





Is that anything like the Clinton Arkansas Crime Family (exactly HOW MANY people have been killed or died mysteriously who were associated with the Clintons)?

Or more like the Kennedy Massachusetts Crime Family? I'm confused....


Did I say I have a preference for Democratic Scum over Republican Scum. Clinton and his wife happen to be junior members of the Bush Crime Family.

So you believe, obviously, that the Federal Reserve, being nothing more than a private banking cabal-Rothschild Central Bank, is here to look out for the interests of the American People. It's really laughable.

My great, great uncle Otto Kahn was a partner in Kuhn, Loeb, Inc. and owned Federal Reserve Stock. I know a little something about these people and their institutions. This was and is, along with the Income Tax Scam, the biggest hoax in the history of mankind, and you, along with many others have fallen hook, line and sinker for it.

But I'm sure you're waiting for people really in the know, like your network talking head presstitutes, to come out and explain how the FED is a scam, and then you'll understand right?

Read Mullins on the Federal Reserve, which I belive you might be able to find for free online, that is, if you really want to get educated about what's really going on.

[Mike at A+]

Now you're speaking some truth for a change.

And where do you get YOUR NEWS from? BTW, regarding CNN and Fox, both stations are VERY CLEAR as to what they are reporting as NEWS and what they are airing as opinion. "Hannity and Colmes" and the "O'Reilly Factor" are not NEWS PROGRAMS, they are moderated discussions with equal representation. Oh and don't bother with the "Harlem Globetrotters / Washington Generals" analogy for "Hannity and Colmes" - I've heard it before on every freakin message board that ever mentioned that show.

[Koko]

Thanks but I've heard it all before. I hope you didn't take the time to type all of that and had it ready with a quick copy and paste like most libs do.

Calling me a liberal, how foolish. You've heard truth before and rejected it because you're a typical brainwashed sheeple type. Why don't you answer the question regarding Bush? Did you knowingly vote for a Satanist, or you didn't realize that he is one?

[Suff]

Probably the best rebuttal is those who saw a plane go into the Pentagon, like 46's friend. But, some people will believe whatever they want to, no matter what.

can you provide an independent witness to a plane hitting the Pentagon.


Better yet, please explain to me how the most secure building in the world, has no external video of the incident.

I can watch women undress over webcams, and the pentagon had no external video?

[46zilzal]

Satanist? silly designation

[lsbets]

can you provide an independent witness to a plane hitting the Pentagon.


I believe 46 already did, even offered you the guys contact info. But, to use your favorite phrase for almost everyone you disagree with, it doesn't matter, you're closed minded.

[46zilzal]

I believe 46 already did, even offered you the guys contact info. But, to use your favorite phrase for almost everyone you disagree with, it doesn't matter, you're closed minded.
here are some more.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/911_pentagon_eyewitnesses.html

[bigmack]

I forgot what was the title of this thread? Oh yeah,

there is enough hate in this world already.

[lsbets]

here are some more.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/911_pentagon_eyewitnesses.html

46, I'm sure you feel as awkward as I do about the two of us coming down on the same side of something. I'm having a hard time thinking of that ever happening before. ;)

[Mike at A+]

Calling me a liberal, how foolish. You've heard truth before and rejected it because you're a typical brainwashed sheeple type. Why don't you answer the question regarding Bush? Did you knowingly vote for a Satanist, or you didn't realize that he is one?

LOL nice question. That's like asking "when did you stop beating your wife"?

[Koko]

Satanist? silly designation

Really now? Look at all the rituals, rights and symbolism of Skull and Bones. It's obviously a masonic, caballistic (all masonry is) order. Don't you know who masons at the highest levels worship? According to the head of Masonry in the U.S. a century and a half ago, Confederate General Albert Pike, in his Tome Morals and Dogma, it's LUCIFER. So, sorry he's not a satanist, he's a luciferian.

Let me ask you this. What benevolent activity do people engage in, in secret, except for the planning of surprise parties? Sure, the average local mason has no idea what he's involved in, but it's quite well known that the masons were created for the purpose of furthering world takeover by the groups I'd mentioned in a previous post.

[Mike at A+]

PA, I'm beginning to understand why you removed my signature. :-)

[Mike at A+]

Really now? Look at all the rituals, rights and symbolism of Skull and Bones. It's obviously a masonic, caballistic (all masonry is) order. Don't you know who masons at the highest levels worship? According to the head of Masonry in the U.S. a century and a half ago, Confederate General Albert Pike, in his Tome Morals and Dogma, it's LUCIFER. So, sorry he's not a satanist, he's a luciferian.

Let me ask you this. What benevolent activity do people engage in, in secret, except for the planning of surprise parties? Sure, the average local mason has no idea what he's involved in, but it's quite well known that the masons were created for the purpose of furthering world takeover by the groups I'd mentioned in a previous post.

Geez, why didn't you tell us this BEFORE the election? Al Sharpton could have been president!

[46zilzal]

46, I'm sure you feel as awkward as I do about the two of us coming down on the same side of something. I'm having a hard time thinking of that ever happening before.
nope just see it as two folks with rational ideas independent of other views.

[46zilzal]

Really now? Look at all the rituals, rights and symbolism of Skull and Bones. It's obviously a masonic, caballistic (all masonry is) order. Don't you know who masons at the highest levels worship? According to the head of Masonry in the U.S. a century and a half ago, Confederate General Albert Pike, in his Tome Morals and Dogma, it's LUCIFER. So, sorry he's not a satanist, he's a luciferian.

Masonic organizations are some of the most caring and philanthropic of all. They don't put S on their insignias, hmmmm it is a big "G." I work with many who have been cared for in their burn centers and children's hospitals. They can act as looney as they care to as long as they continue to provide care to the patients.

[bigmack]

Bush is a Satanist and this guy is a?

[Mike at A+]

Bush is a Satanist and this guy is a?

Douchebag?

[bigmack]

Bingo - You won Mike!

[lsbets]

Douchebag?

I don't think Al's funny, and I don't agree with his politics, but the fact that he has travelled with the USO to Iraq and Afghanistan on numerous occasions means he's alright in my book. The guys who don't just talk about supporting the troops, but put themselves at risk to do so are okay with me. My base was small, we got all the no name people no one ever heard of, and we loved having them show up to break the monotony. We would have loved it if he showed up simply because we knew who he was.

Anyone who goes into a combat zone with the USO is okay in my book.

[PaceAdvantage]

It would have been a lot funnier if Al showed up with the satellite dish taped to his head like in those SNL skits.....:lol:

[Suff]

he's a poltical satirist

It's so sad... very very sad, that what has happened in America when Folks feel they are informed, or balanced, or deliberate, or complex, or thoughtful in anything they think politically.

Is it a coincedence that thier enemies are the same as Limbaughs, or Hannities, or Ingram's? or any of the venom spewers?

How oddly circumstancial that is..

Somehow they use the same descriptions, and the same nomenclature about the same people. They INSIST they are independent and even minded but I hear nothing original.

[bigmack]

Suff - Ya seem like a nice enough guy and have strong convictions but with all due respect Al F is the King of venom spewing. Come on you know that right?

[Koko]

Since you Sheeple want to remain programmed into your liberal-conservative matrix, tell me, aren't the good conservatives the ones that believe in limited government like Reagan and Bush, and less government intrusion and spending? Both of those guys are known for cutting back on spending and government intrusion into private affairs right?

Next you'll call me a liberal again, that will show your IQ.

[46zilzal]

Suff - Ya seem like a nice enough guy and have strong convictions but with all due respect Al F is the King of venom spewing. Come on you know that right?
No it would have to be a tie between Hannity and the blond bimbo Coulter

[Suff]

Suff - Ya seem like a nice enough guy and have strong convictions but with all due respect Al F is the King of venom spewing. Come on you know that right?

He's a Do-Do of little or no consequence. He's Comedien who I find to be about as funny as hemroids.

I would'nt give the guy a cigarette if he asked me.

But its the enemy's you guys make.

Canada, France, China, Venezuela, Liberals, Blue States, Homo's, Iraq, Iran, Al Franken, Michael Moore, Most of Europe, Russia, Congress, NY Times, White house Press Corp....and a vast majority of the 6 billion humans on earth.


I mean the list goes on and on with these guys.... Does'nt it strike you as "just not right" that these guys demonize everybody,,,,and find trouble at every turn, and will go to any lengths to make people afraid.

America don't seem like America anymore, with these guys in charge.

Anger..anger , anger.... fear , fear, fear

[46zilzal]

Since you Sheeple want to remain programmed into your liberal-conservative matrix, tell me, aren't the good conservatives the ones that believe in limited government like Reagan and Bush, and less government intrusion and spending? Both of those guys are known for cutting back on spending and government intrusion into private affairs right?

cutting back on spending? less intrustion into one's private life? that is a laugh

[bigmack]

No it would have to be a tie between Hannity and the blond bimbo Coulter
I agree but ya gotta throw Frankenferter in there. Satire - yeah sure. Good cover.
I do agree bout hannity and coulter though they're over the roof

[Mike at A+]

Since you Sheeple want to remain programmed into your liberal-conservative matrix, tell me, aren't the good conservatives the ones that believe in limited government like Reagan and Bush, and less government intrusion and spending? Both of those guys are known for cutting back on spending and government intrusion into private affairs right?

Next you'll call me a liberal again, that will show your IQ.

Does "sheeple" say anything about yours?

[Koko]

And the Democrats/liberals, aren't they the ones who spend and spend on social programs like Clinton, who cut welfare drastically. And they are for the working man so they voted strongly against "free trade" scams known as NAFTA, GATT and FTAA right?

My point is folks, is that if you're rooting for either of these teams, you're deluded. They all work for the same crowd behind the scenes that doesn't have your best interest at heart, to put it mildly.

The problem is separating the rhetoric from reality. The "conservatives" are going to tell their base what they want to hear, just like the "liberals" will do the same. All of these positions sound like the road to utopia. In reality, they will all do the will of their masters. Wake up and smell the tyranny of all of these creeple and stop being sheeple.

[Dave Schwartz]

Koko,

My point is folks, is that if you're rooting for either of these teams, you're deluded. They all work for the same crowd behind the scenes that doesn't have your best interest at heart, to put it mildly.

I have not followed this thread but as far as this statement goes, brother, you and I are kindred spirits. You have hit the nail right on the head!



IMHO, virtually every elected official gets elected with big money. You simply cannot get elected without it. Since money is supplied by big business, they are in charge of who runs and, ultimately, who gets elected.

In other words, big business money runs the country from both sides of the aisle.

We should be battling against the system instead of each other.

The answer lies in serious campaign reform.



Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[Mike at A+]

he's a poltical satirist

It's so sad... very very sad, that what has happened in America when Folks feel they are informed, or balanced, or deliberate, or complex, or thoughtful in anything they think politically.

Is it a coincedence that thier enemies are the same as Limbaughs, or Hannities, or Ingram's? or any of the venom spewers?

How oddly circumstancial that is..

Somehow they use the same descriptions, and the same nomenclature about the same people. They INSIST they are independent and even minded but I hear nothing original.

Is it so difficult to understand that people are capable on their own of arriving at the same conclusions as those you so lovingly refer to as "venom spewers"? I'll give you as much as "confrontational" but "venom spewers"? Come on, the people you mention love America as much as you do. The differences are that they'd crack down a little harder than you would against our enemies and they get a little more disgusted than you do when the President of the United States is called a liar by partisans with an obvious agenda. THAT is what is "so sad... very very sad".

[bigmack]

And the Democrats/liberals, aren't they the ones who spend and spend on social programs like Clinton, who cut welfare drastically. And they are for the working man so they voted strongly against "free trade" scams known as NAFTA, GATT and FTAA right?

My point is folks, is that if you're rooting for either of these teams, you're deluded. They all work for the same crowd behind the scenes that doesn't have your best interest at heart, to put it mildly.

The problem is separating the rhetoric from reality. The "conservatives" are going to tell their base what they want to hear, just like the "liberals" will do the same. All of these positions sound like the road to utopia. In reality, they will all do the will of their masters. Wake up and smell the tyranny of all of these creeple and stop being sheeple.
What should we do KoKo, what should we do? Lead us. Please help us "sheeple" from these "creeple". How can we get started?

[Koko]

What should we do KoKo, what should we do? Lead us. Please help us "sheeple" from these "creeple". How can we get started?

Off the first idiot you see. He shouldn't be hard to find once you find a mirror.

[PaceAdvantage]

Off the first idiot you see. He shouldn't be hard to find once you find a mirror.

I guess you didn't read my last post to you and bigmack? This is my last warning. The next one who screws up is out.

[Suff]

[QUOTE]
Is it so difficult to understand that people are capable on their own of arriving at the same conclusions as those you so lovingly refer to as "venom spewers"?

yes it is. It is at odds of untold magnitude that you would feel, and speak virtually identical to what is heard on TV and Radio if you were truly independent and open minded.

The odds are astronomical.

The differences are that they'd crack down a little harder than you would against our enemies and they get a little more disgusted than you do when the President of the United States is called a liar by partisans with an obvious agenda. THAT is what is "so sad... very very sad".

Who told you that? huh? Someone told you that they are cracking down harder than I would? You accepted that as fact? You beleive that as if You know it?
It is a MYTH. Designed to make you afraid. Afraid you won't be safe unless they protect you.

But more importantly is HOW EFFECTIVE is it? To my mind, we've not made the world safer in the last 5 years. If anything we've exasperated the situation.


Read on:


Our responsibility is not discharged by announcement of virtuous ends. Our responsibility is to achieve these objectives with social invention, with political skill, and executive vigor. I believe for these reasons that liberalism is our best and only hope in the world today. For the liberal society is a free society, and it is at the same time and for that reason a strong society. Its strength is drawn from the will of free people committed to great ends and peacefully striving to meet them. Only liberalism, in short, can repair our national power, restore our national purpose, and liberate our national energies.

What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?" If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of "Liberal." But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."

John Fitzgerald Kennedy.

[JustRalph]

I think this is about the tenth time this thread has appeared here in the last couple of years. Damn shame........rehash.........

[bigmack]

Suff -
In todays standards JFK would be considered more conservative than alot of "conservatives" Liberal is a tad different today than it once was don't you think?

[Suff]

Suff -
In todays standards JFK would be considered more conservative than alot of "conservatives" Liberal is a tad different today than it once was don't you think?

No I don't. Not at all. I think conservatives would like you to think it is. But its not.

The march of humanity is Liberal. Of course JFK would be more conservative when compared to today. He lived 40 years ago. Change is constant. The first presidents owned slaves. They were revolutionary and liberal in thier thinking and governing.

Humanity, for its own sake, ,must progress. That involves dealing with events, circumstances, and culture in a progressive manner.

Today's conservatives would be liberal heathens to 17 century politicians.

Mankind yearns for liberalism. All conservatives do is slow it down.

[Tom]

It would have been a lot funnier if Al showed up with the satellite dish taped to his head like in those SNL skits.....:lol:
:lol::lol::lol:

[Tom]

he's a poltical satirist

It's so sad... very very sad, that what has happened in America when Folks feel they are informed, or balanced, or deliberate, or complex, or thoughtful in anything they think politically.

Is it a coincedence that thier enemies are the same as Limbaughs, or Hannities, or Ingram's? or any of the venom spewers?

How oddly circumstancial that is..

Somehow they use the same descriptions, and the same nomenclature about the same people. They INSIST they are independent and even minded but I hear nothing original.


Yadda yadda yadda. You ever listen to Air-head AMerica? Randi Rhodes, Stephanie Sleeze, that english bithc? NOTHING but that same old hate crap every day. Nothing to offer but bullshit.
Now Ikow you hate Rush, but I suspect you don't even listen to him befreo you attack - he certainly doesn't come down on the die of the administration on many issues at all any more - he sounds more like Lou Dobbs than Hanity.
You want people who think and offer reasonable opinions and solutions, you need to turn that dial to the RIGHT - you won't find and brain activity on the sharp left turn.

[Mike at A+]

yes it is. It is at odds of untold magnitude that you would feel, and speak virtually identical to what is heard on TV and Radio if you were truly independent and open minded.

The odds are astronomical.

Not if the conclusions are as obvious to me as they are to the media personalities you mention.



Designed to make you afraid. Afraid you won't be safe unless they protect you.

Now where did I hear that before? Talk about regurgitation!

But more importantly is HOW EFFECTIVE is it? To my mind, we've not made the world safer in the last 5 years. If anything we've exasperated the situation.

Terrorists learn slowly. So we keep exterminating them until they feel it's better for them to get into some other line of business.

[Suff]

Now Ikow you hate Rush, but I suspect you don't even listen to him befreo you attack -

I was reading that thread last week about the conditions for the backside workers. One PA member said. "Who gives a F, they're alcoholics and druggies back there anyway"

I thought to myself:

Rush Limbaugh works on the backside?....

[Tom]

PA spelling bee......
Suff, your word is "hypocrite."

[Koko]

Terrorists learn slowly. So we keep exterminating them until they feel it's better for them to get into some other line of business.

Exterminating them? When did we start employing guillotines in DC, NY and the City of London? Pardon me, I hadn't noticed.

[Koko]

Terrorists learn slowly.

They're not the only ones.

[Mike at A+]

Exterminating them? When did we start employing guillotines in DC, NY and the City of London? Pardon me, I hadn't noticed.

Ha ha very funny. It wasn't Bush, Blair or Giuliani who hijacked planes and flew them into buildings full of office workers. When we kill, we target terrorists. When they kill, they target non-military, non-violent, non-combatant civilians. You do see a difference I hope.

[JustRalph]

Exterminating them? When did we start employing guillotines in DC, NY and the City of London? Pardon me, I hadn't noticed.

Turn on the news and start rooting for the guys in Camo who are exterminating the bastards every day in Afghanistan and Iraq.

[Koko]

You do see a difference I hope.

I see a distinct difference between glaringly obvious reality and the utter nonsense you propose to be true. Indeed

[Koko]

Turn on the news and start rooting for the guys in Camo who are exterminating the bastards every day in Afghanistan and Iraq.

I'd love to have an intelligent debate, but right now I don't have the time and energy to deprogram you first, which would obviously be a necessity.

[Suff]

This oughta be good.

Hold my calls.


Gentlemen, fighting, biting, eye gouging, and dirty tricks are strictly encouraged.


Ding!

[Mike at A+]

I see a distinct difference between glaringly obvious reality and the utter nonsense you propose to be true. Indeed

That must be some pretty strong Kool-Aid ya got there. You aren't going to convince me of your imagined conspiracies and I'm not going to convince you that terrorists exist so let's save the bandwidth. Go convert someone else. I saw everything you have to offer as support for your pipedreams - YEARS AGO. It was BS then and it's BS now.

[Suff]

to convince you that terrorists exist .

Terror is a tactic, not an entity.

When you get all scared , defensive and protective... they love it.

But when you actually start spying on your own people, and turning on one another......they have multiple orgasisms.


Be more afraid, get tough, crackdown. Accuse your countrymen of being cowards and weak. Create division rather than unity. Be paranoid. Distrust long time allies. Isolate.

Victory goes to fear.

Defeat goes to America.



I don't want George Bush to protect me from being blown up.

He took an oath to "protect and uphold the constitution". Not to worry about my fat irish ass. Let george bush worry about protecting the Constiution. That's his job. I'll take care of myself, thats my job thank you very much.

[Koko]

I saw everything you have to offer as support for your pipedreams - YEARS AGO. It was BS then and it's BS now.

I don't know what reality you think you're SEEING, but it's not the one here on earth.

NEWSFLASH!!! This just in. They've recently discovered a way to perfectly professionally implode reinforced steel buildings using...........you'll never guess.............stuff that burns at about 600 degrees fahrenheit.............yea jet fuel. They just melted three buildings in one day with the stuff.

The SEC knew exactly who made all the amazingly large and accurate option trades within seconds, how come we've never had that addressed in the Warren, uh 9/11 Commission hearings? Oh, because it points directly at very rich powerful people in the U.S., Canada and Israel. Ohhhh, better shut that pandora's box up. Leave that alone. MORE RON.

[PaceAdvantage]

He took an oath to "protect and uphold the constitution". Not to worry about my fat irish ass. Let george bush worry about protecting the Constiution. That's his job. I'll take care of myself, thats my job thank you very much.

Not quite Suff. One of the Federal Government's main tasks under the Constitution is to provide for the common defense. Your fat Irish ass included.

[PaceAdvantage]

The SEC knew exactly who made all the amazingly large and accurate option trades within seconds, how come we've never had that addressed in the Warren, uh 9/11 Commission hearings?

Actually, the trades were made in the days leading up to 9/11, not within seconds of the event.

MORE RON

That is not appropriate for this forum. How many times do I HAVE TO FREAKIN' TELL YOU THIS SHIT? ARE YOU DENSE?

[Mike at A+]

Terror is a tactic, not an entity.

When you get all scared , defensive and protective... they love it.

But when you actually start spying on your own people, and turning on one another......they have multiple orgasisms.


Be more afraid, get tough, crackdown. Accuse your countrymen of being cowards and weak. Create division rather than unity. Be paranoid. Distrust long time allies. Isolate.

Victory goes to fear.

Defeat goes to America.



I don't want George Bush to protect me from being blown up.

He took an oath to "protect and uphold the constitution". Not to worry about my fat irish ass. Let george bush worry about protecting the Constiution. That's his job. I'll take care of myself, thats my job thank you very much.

Yes terror IS a tactic. But terrorISTS are indeed an "entity". Living and breathing and concocting up new ways to kill innocent people (conservatives AND liberals and everything in between). All you need to qualify to be one of their targets is to be living and breathing and going about your business.

You are obviously confusing "scared and defensive" for "alert and vigilant".

And if the NSA wants to see what numbers I'm dialing, I'll be glad to turn over every phone record I have. They'll see a shitload of 2 minute calls to BrisBet, several calls to my family and friends an occasional call to relatives in Florida (ones who had no trouble voting in 2000).

I accuse no one of being "cowards and weak". But I give little regard to those who want to negotiate with people whose word isn't worth a losing $2 ticket.

I distrust "allies" who see the obvious but stick their heads in the sand when push comes to shove.

Defeat will NEVER go to America because ..... well .... we are America.

I DO want George Bush to prevent another attack here. If that means vaporizing everything that breathes in every sand covered country on earth, he has my support. Better one of those slimy subhumans than one more American. Drastic? Radical? You bet your "Irish ass".

[Mike at A+]

MORE RON.

Showing that "IQ" again?

[bigmack]

Have the fellows advocating the involvement of a multitude seen this film?
http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/printer_22095.shtml
Probably not huh

[Suff]

Have the fellows advocating the involvement of a multitude seen this film?
http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/printer_22095.shtml

Myself and PA have, I know that.

[Koko]

Actually, the trades were made in the days leading up to 9/11, not within seconds of the event.



That is not appropriate for this forum. How many times do I HAVE TO FREAKIN' TELL YOU THIS SHIT? ARE YOU DENSE?

I guess I'm dense, I'll have to be more discreet about my insults, as others are.

PA, you're asking me if I'm dense, yet you're the one who had trouble comprehending my post. I never said nor implied that the trades in question were made seconds before the event. I said that, if they wanted to look into a situation, that they could know within seconds the accounts and the owners of those accounts. Big difference.

[bigmack]

Suff - As you appear well informed to non-traditional media presentations could you give some of us that haven't been exposed to them, several reference points for us to edify and drink in an alternative to the "facts as we know them"
You bring a good game and I, for one will be open to any presentation provided it has backing and is viable. Thanks.
**please--don't make em too tangential

[lsbets]

The SEC knew exactly who made all the amazingly large and accurate option trades within seconds, how come we've never had that addressed in the Warren, uh 9/11 Commission hearings?

From the 9/11 commision:

"A single U.S.-based institutional investor with no conceivable ties to al Qaeda purchased 95 percent of the UAL puts on September 6 as part of a trading strategy that also included buying 115,000 shares of American on September 10. Similarly, much of the seemingly suspicious trading in American on September 10 was traced to a specific U.S.-based options trading newsletter, faxed to its subscribers on Sunday, September 9, which recommended these trades."

Snopes is a great site. There's much more about the suspicious trades on there if you care to look, but I did want to point out that your contention that the issue was not addressed by the 9/11 commision is false.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/putcall.asp

[Tom]

I am confident Oswald acted alone!
Single bullet FACT.

(I couldn't resist! :cool:)

[PaceAdvantage]

I guess I'm dense, I'll have to be more discreet about my insults, as others are.

PA, you're asking me if I'm dense, yet you're the one who had trouble comprehending my post. I never said nor implied that the trades in question were made seconds before the event. I said that, if they wanted to look into a situation, that they could know within seconds the accounts and the owners of those accounts. Big difference.

My apologies for misreading your post. This does not excuse the fact that I have asked you multiple times to stop with the "personal" attacks. BigMack as well. They don't fly here, and they don't help advance ANY SIDE of this debate.

I like to keep threads OPEN and INTERESTING. Not full of BORING, TIRED, and OLD cliches and insults.

[PaceAdvantage]

Snopes is a great site. There's much more about the suspicious trades on there if you care to look, but I did want to point out that your contention that the issue was not addressed by the 9/11 commision is false.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/putcall.asp

LS, I don't buy this explanation for a second. Anyone reading the trading FACTS as they are printed on snopes can't possibly, for one second, buy that this was all a coincidence.

I will reprint them here for all to digest:

But it was during the final few trading days (the market closes on weekends) that the most unusual variances in activity occurred. Bloomberg data showed that on 6 September 2001, the Thursday before that black Tuesday, put-option volume in UAL stock was nearly 100 times higher than normal: 2,000 options versus 27 on the previous day.

On 6 and 7 September 2001, the Chicago Board Options Exchange handled 4,744 put options for United Airlines' stock, translating into 474,000 shares, compared with just 396 call options, or 39,600 shares. On a day that the put-to-call ratio would normally have been expected to be roughly 1:1 (no negative news stories about United had broken), it was instead 12:1.

On 10 September 2001, another uneventful news day, American Airlines' option volume was 4,516 puts and 748 calls, a ratio of 6:1 on yet another day when by rights these options should have been trading even. No other airline stocks were affected; only United and American were shorted in this fashion.

Accelerated investments speculating a downturn in the value of Morgan Stanley and Merrill Lynch (two New York investment firms severely damaged by the World Trade Center attack) were also observed.

The following explanation is laughable:

The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (also known as the "9/11 Commission") investigated these rumors and found that although some unusual (and initially seemingly suspicious) trading activity did occur in the days prior to September 11, it was all coincidentally innocuous and not the result of insider trading by parties with foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks:
Highly publicized allegations of insider trading in advance of 9/11 generally rest on reports of unusual pre-9/11 trading activity in companies whose stock plummeted after the attacks. Some unusual trading did in fact occur, but each such trade proved to have an innocuous explanation. For example, the volume of put options — instruments that pay off only when a stock drops in price — surged in the parent companies of United Airlines on September 6 and American Airlines on September 10 — highly suspicious trading on its face. Yet, further investigation has revealed that the trading had no connection with 9/11. A single U.S.-based institutional investor with no conceivable ties to al Qaeda purchased 95 percent of the UAL puts on September 6 as part of a trading strategy that also included buying 115,000 shares of American on September 10. Similarly, much of the seemingly suspicious trading in American on September 10 was traced to a specific U.S.-based options trading newsletter, faxed to its subscribers on Sunday, September 9, which recommended these trades. The SEC and FBI, aided by other agencies and the securities industry, devoted enormous resources to investigating this issue, including securing the cooperation of many foreign governments. These investigators have found that the apparently suspicious consistently proved innocuous.

[lsbets]

PA, think what you want to about the findings of the 9/11 commision, but my point was, and remains, that to state that they did not address the matter of those trades is false. You and Koko and everyone else might not like the way that they addressed it, but it is beyond debate that they did indeed address the issue.

[Mike at A+]

I just watched that "Loose Change" thing. What a freakin waste of time. They should have called it "Loose Screws". It's just another futile attempt by the left to grasp at yet another straw.

[PaceAdvantage]

I just watched that "Loose Change" thing. What a freakin waste of time. They should have called it "Loose Screws". It's just another futile attempt by the left to grasp at yet another straw.

Whatever the motive, the movie raises some interesting questions, questions I am still debating in my own head even today. To totally dismiss it as a politically motivated propaganda film is a serious mistake.

The U.S. Government has shown throughout its HISTORY the ability to lie, distort, and cover-up. Case in point:

In the days immediately following 9/11, the EPA determined that the air around Ground Zero was SAFE for both rescue workers and nearby residents. The fact that ONE HUNDRED PEOPLE A MONTH are now showing up sick from Ground Zero-related activities tells a completely DIFFERENT story of AIR SAFETY in the days following 9/11.

Any REASONABLE person should have been able to determine that the AIR around Ground Zero would have been EXTREMEMLY HAZORDOUS to ones health in the days following the attack. For the government to claim otherwise either shows COMPLETE and UTTER incompetence, or COMPLETE and UTTER DISDAIN for the intelligence of the American people.

I'm not sure which one is worse.

Source:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/features/health/ny-liwtc0601,0,4002341.story?coll=sfla-news-health

[Koko]

From the 9/11 commision:

"A single U.S.-based institutional investor with no conceivable ties to al Qaeda purchased 95 percent of the UAL puts on September 6 as part of a trading strategy that also included buying 115,000 shares of American on September 10. Similarly, much of the seemingly suspicious trading in American on September 10 was traced to a specific U.S.-based options trading newsletter, faxed to its subscribers on Sunday, September 9, which recommended these trades."

Snopes is a great site. There's much more about the suspicious trades on there if you care to look, but I did want to point out that your contention that the issue was not addressed by the 9/11 commision is false.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/putcall.asp

Snopes is a total piece of unadulterated crap. So now the 9/11 commission is a dependable source of information. Don't you get it? What everyone else has figured out is that it's an inside job, but you want to go to the insiders and ask them if they did it. You might as well ask John Gotti if he offed those guys last week. His independant commission will assure you that he didn't. There's plenty of leaked information that points to numerous Canadian Israeli's being behind the trades. Go to Snopes next time you want to be reconvinced of the lone guilt of Lee Harvey Oswald. Please spare us.

[Koko]

I just watched that "Loose Change" thing. What a freakin waste of time. They should have called it "Loose Screws". It's just another futile attempt by the left to grasp at yet another straw.

You keep using the term Liberal and Left. You really don't get it at all. Is it too much Rush Limbaugh or too much of the same dope, you tell us.

[bigmack]

My apologies for misreading your post. This does not excuse the fact that I have asked you multiple times to stop with the "personal" attacks. BigMack as well. They don't fly here, and they don't help advance ANY SIDE of this debate.

I like to keep threads OPEN and INTERESTING. Not full of BORING, TIRED, and OLD cliches and insults.
Give me a break. Show me one episode that wasn't instigated by this fellow.

[Koko]

Whatever the motive, the movie raises some interesting questions, questions I am still debating in my own head even today. To totally dismiss it as a politically motivated propaganda film is a serious mistake.

The U.S. Government has shown throughout its HISTORY the ability to lie, distort, and cover-up. Case in point:

In the days immediately following 9/11, the EPA determined that the air around Ground Zero was SAFE for both rescue workers and nearby residents. The fact that ONE HUNDRED PEOPLE A MONTH are now showing up sick from Ground Zero-related activities tells a completely DIFFERENT story of AIR SAFETY in the days following 9/11.

Any REASONABLE person should have been able to determine that the AIR around Ground Zero would have been EXTREMEMLY HAZORDOUS to ones health in the days following the attack. For the government to claim otherwise either shows COMPLETE and UTTER incompetence, or COMPLETE and UTTER DISDAIN for the intelligence of the American people.

I'm not sure which one is worse.

Source:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/features/health/ny-liwtc0601,0,4002341.story?coll=sfla-news-health

Anyone doubting the intent of high level government officials needs to be aware of the NORTHWOODS DOCUMENT where the Joint Chiefs of Staff planned ways to justify an invasion of Cuba. They planned to KILL AMERICANS to create the outrage to convince Americans to lust for war.

If you've been aware of current events, you should already know about the Northwoods Document. Google it. I'm not addressing you specifically PA, just riding on your post's theme.

[lsbets]

Snopes is a total piece of unadulterated crap. So now the 9/11 commission is a dependable source of information. Don't you get it? What everyone else has figured out is that it's an inside job, but you want to go to the insiders and ask them if they did it. You might as well ask John Gotti if he offed those guys last week. His independant commission will assure you that he didn't. There's plenty of leaked information that points to numerous Canadian Israeli's being behind the trades. Go to Snopes next time you want to be reconvinced of the lone guilt of Lee Harvey Oswald. Please spare us.

Koko - you made a statement couched as if it were a fact. I replied showing that the statement you made was false (your statement was that the 9/11 commission did not address the trades, it is clear that they did, if you want more, I refer you to my reply to PA). Then you got mad. This seems to be a pattern with you and your interactions with others.

[Koko]

Give me a break. Show me one episode that wasn't instigated by this fellow.

You need to check your facts before you make a fool of yourself.

[bigmack]

This seems to be a pattern with you and your interactions with others.
Oh Really

[lsbets]

Give me a break. Show me one episode that wasn't instigated by this fellow.

Bigmack - there is one thing I will give Koko credit for. He has 46 and myself on the same side of an issue (that a plane hit the Pentagon). Maybe he should be placed in charge of Mideast peace, because he appears capable of doing the impossible! :lol: :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

Snopes is a total piece of unadulterated crap. So now the 9/11 commission is a dependable source of information. Don't you get it? What everyone else has figured out is that it's an inside job, but you want to go to the insiders and ask them if they did it. You might as well ask John Gotti if he offed those guys last week. His independant commission will assure you that he didn't. There's plenty of leaked information that points to numerous Canadian Israeli's being behind the trades. Go to Snopes next time you want to be reconvinced of the lone guilt of Lee Harvey Oswald. Please spare us.

See, this attitude is going to get you booted. I have no patience left for your lack of reading comprehension.

Lsbets did NOT advocate that the 9/11 commission was DEPENDABLE or CORRECT, or in ERROR. What he was pointing out was that THEY ADDRESSED THE ISSUE of unusual trading activity, something YOU CLAIMED they DID NOT!!

Now, read my reply about 2 or 3 more times before you hit that "Quote" button, cause you seem to have a real problem understanding what people are writing.

And lose the attitude.

[Tom]

Anyone doubting the intent of high level government officials needs to be aware of the NORTHWOODS DOCUMENT where the Joint Chiefs of Staff planned ways to justify an invasion of Cuba. They planned to KILL AMERICANS to create the outrage to convince Americans to lust for war.

If you've been aware of current events, you should already know about the Northwoods Document. Google it. I'm not addressing you specifically PA, just riding on your post's theme.

Yeah, in 1962!
Ya got anything this century?

[Mike at A+]

You keep using the term Liberal and Left. You really don't get it at all. Is it too much Rush Limbaugh or too much of the same dope, you tell us.

Are those terms off limits? How about the terms Conservative and Right? I hear them all the time. I hear how the "Religious Right" voted for Bush (like it's some kind of crime for a specific group to support a specific candidate). Blacks vote 90% Democrat. Is that a crime too?

And it's YOU who doesn't seem to get it. You were warned by the moderator about the personal attacks. I don't do dope and your implying it here reflects much more on you than it does me. And I don't watch (or listen to) Limbaugh. But your kind likes to assume that everyone who supports this administration gets their marching orders from some radio or TV commentator that pushes your buttons. When liberals and Democrats find the ability to participate in a civil discussion without resorting to their kneejerk personal attacks, their party will get back some of the credibility it has lost in recent years. Too many whacked out vulgar and vindictive people have been permitted to rise to frightening levels in that party. They can't speak in public without using that trademark bitter tone of voice accompanied by that "I just swallowed a fresh turd" look on their faces.

[Tom]

Forensic SCIENCE and actual recreations have proven Oswald could have done everyting by himslef that day. In fact, it proves the single bullet theory to be the only explanation. Every other conspiracy has been proven false.
One guy. Three shots.

[Koko]

What he was pointing out was that THEY ADDRESSED THE ISSUE of unusual trading activity, something YOU CLAIMED they DID NOT!!


Addressed and Glossed Over/Covered Up are rather different concepts to me.

[Tom]

Addressed and Glossed Over/Covered Up are rather different concepts to me.

And your professinal expertise in this is..........?
And your personal examination of the records was when?

[PaceAdvantage]

Addressed and Glossed Over/Covered Up are rather different concepts to me.

Yes, but unfortunately, YOU USED THE WORD "ADDRESSED" in your post that lsbets was replying to.....again with the difficulty in comprehending simple written English....

I have to ask, are you nothing more than an internet troll? Cause you sure are acting like one....

[Koko]

And your professinal expertise in this is..........?
And your personal examination of the records was when?

And your willingness to believe whatever the commission says stems from what?

If you want to view a NON Commission perspective simply Google 9/11 Stock Option trades or whatever combination of words you want and do some "non-establishment authorized reading".

But why do that when you can have the Commission think for you. They did such a good job on the Kennedy Suicide Right?

[lsbets]

Addressed and Glossed Over/Covered Up are rather different concepts to me.

You did not say the 9/11 commission glossed over the trades, or that they covered up the trades. You said they never addressed the trades.

They are also different concepts to me. If you had said glossed over or covered up, I wouldn't have replied because you would have been stating an opinion. However, you made a statement of fact - that the trades were never addressed. While we are all entitled to our own opinions, no one is entitled to their own facts, and the fact is your statement about the trades not being addressed was incorrect. As I said to PA, you might not like what they said, you may feel they glossed over it or covered it up, but when you attempt to make a point, and do so leading with a falsehood stated as fact, it does little for your credibility.

[Tom]

And your willingness to believe whatever the commission says stems from what?

If you want to view a NON Commission perspective simply Google 9/11 Stock Option trades or whatever combination of words you want and do some "non-establishment authorized reading".

But why do that when you can have the Commission think for you. They did such a good job on the Kennedy Suicide Right?

But YOU let the internet think for YOU! :lol: Which would I believe - a commision fo professional people wose job it is to do these things and who have access to the records, or some internet troll with a blog and a dream? And no access to anything but fantasy? Hmmmmm?:confused:

What the hell suicide are you rambling on about now - you think JFK shot himself and kept the gun of the film????? Oswald acted alone - proven.


And BTW, you probably don't know this, but the commisions were not the same one. 9-11 Commision did not investigate the Kennedy assasination. The Warren Commision did that - and hit a home run.

Check this out.....you will see the light.

http://www.wacko.com

[Mike at A+]

But YOU let the internet think for YOU! :lol: Which would I believe - a commision fo professional people wose job it is to do these things and who have access to the records, or some internet troll with a blog and a dream? And no access to anything but fantasy?

Nail hit squarely on head.

[Koko]

Two more debate team dropouts chime in. I'm underwhelmed. But I will offer you free spelling lessons if you'll quit posting drivel.

[Tom]

I give as good as I get.

[PaceAdvantage]

Two more debate team dropouts chime in. I'm underwhelmed. But I will offer you free spelling lessons if you'll quit posting drivel.

KoKo, I have to say, I am not impressed. I wish you would have come up with something NEW at least. All these years, and still the same ol' same ol'....

Whatever happened to the "pod' theory....you remember that one, don't you?

[Mike at A+]

Two more debate team dropouts chime in. I'm underwhelmed. But I will offer you free spelling lessons if you'll quit posting drivel.

That all ya got? The SPELLING COMEBACK? I think Tom knows how to spell the two words you're nitpicking about. It's called a typo when you miss a key or type out of order. I think PA has it right - "internet troll".

[lsbets]

Two more debate team dropouts chime in. I'm underwhelmed. But I will offer you free spelling lessons if you'll quit posting drivel.

Koko, you previously claimed to enjoy intelligent discourse and debate, which I would presume mean disputing the contentions of those who disagree with you. Rather than doing that, your preferred method seems to be ignoring anything anyone says that does not back up what you want to believe and casting insults at those who deliver the messages.

I think PA hit the nail on the head when he labelled you as a troll, because it does not appear that you have anything worthwhile to say when challened.

[Tom]

Well, that's a half hour I'll never get back! :sleeping:

[bigmack]

, because it does not appear that you have anything worthwhile to say when challened.
What is wrong with your ibets. You mispelled challenged. How dare you. You're clearly a dope.

[Koko]

KoKo, I have to say, I am not impressed. I wish you would have come up with something NEW at least. All these years, and still the same ol' same ol'....

Whatever happened to the "pod' theory....you remember that one, don't you?

PA,

Rebut the 20 items, then tell me about you being unimpressed. 50% of NYC (ohhh liberals right Mikey A+) figured out that the official story wasn't right within weeks of the event, you've looked into it and aren't sure whether the official story is legit, good god, what are you using upstairs, really?

[PaceAdvantage]

The "pod" theory man....at least that's relatively new....what happened to that one? Why did it fail to make your list?

Why won't you address the pods?

[Koko]

The "pod" theory man....at least that's relatively new....what happened to that one? Why did it fail to make your list?

Why won't you address the pods?

First things first. Is the official story legit or not? If it is, then all other alternative approaches don't even need to be considered. If it's not, then exactly what is true is somewhat secondary, since the first consideration to deal with is that we have some real bad stuff going on at very high levels, like flat out treason.

Nice of you to avoid those twenty points though.

[PaceAdvantage]

Nice of you to avoid those twenty points though.

I went back to look at the twenty points, and discovered they aren't even in this thread! Your troll work is good, I'll give you that....like a virus, you have spread out and infected other threads....I hadn't even realized the extent of your proliferation until now.

Good work man!

[Koko]

As Tom would say, I'm profilific. And I'm intersting. And whittey. And braive.

And gorgus.

[Tom]

A real equineer.

[Koko]

No one's said anything the slightest bit insulting to me here, it's all one-sided obviously, I'm the only one making insulting posts, that's it.

[PaceAdvantage]

Nice of you to avoid those twenty points though.

If you go to the actual thread where you posted the 20 points, you will see I have addressed each and every one.

[Lefty]

koko, so we should all just mindlessly buy a few conspiracy nuts' theorys?

[Koko]

koko, so we should all just mindlessly buy a few conspiracy nuts' theorys?

Yes, you should indeed buy Bush and Company's 19 Arab Hijackers did it all bullshit conspiracy theory. That's exactly what you should do. Oh, I forgot you already do buy it lock, stock and barrel. You genius you.

[PaceAdvantage]

No one's said anything the slightest bit insulting to me here, it's all one-sided obviously, I'm the only one making insulting posts, that's it.

You were Ground Zero, so to speak....are you surprised you got as well as you gave regarding "insults?"

[Koko]

You were Ground Zero, so to speak....are you surprised you got as well as you gave regarding "insults?"

Not at all. Just fascinating that you apparently overlooked the volleys from the other side, which you certainly have a right to do, but please don't tell me you're being objective about it when you do.

[Lefty]

Yes, you should indeed buy Bush and Company's 19 Arab Hijackers did it all bullshit conspiracy theory. That's exactly what you should do. Oh, I forgot you already do buy it lock, stock and barrel. You genius you.

And I guess those cell phone calls from one of the airplanes to their loved ones, telling them they had been hijacked were just all madeup too? Hmmmm...

[Koko]

And I guess those cell phone calls from one of the airplanes to their loved ones, telling them they had been hijacked were just all madeup too? Hmmmm...

Your genius is showing through.

[bigmack]

Karma is knocking KK(k).

[Koko]

Karma is knocking KK(k).

You're the guy that never starts anything right?

[Lefty]

Your genius is showing through.
Not much of an answer for a guy who is so sure of himself. A smug comment is not a sufficient answer to my q. Please try a little harder. You don't believe those calls were made?

[Koko]

Not much of an answer for a guy who is so sure of himself. A smug comment is not a sufficient answer to my q. Please try a little harder. You don't believe those calls were made?

Had you not made the stupid remark about conspiracy nut theories, I'd give you the benefit of the doubt of being someone with an open mind who might grasp the alternative reality of the supposed cell calls. But since you made that comment, no, you don't deserve an answer because I've determined it would be an utter waste of my time. Now humor me and tell me that you believe the "official 9/11 story". In other words make my day and say yes.

[Koko]

Karma is knocking KK(k).

A person of color took your janitor job and now you're bitter for life. It's so obvious, can't you be a little discreet about your situation.

[bigmack]

Your right KK it's just me that you have a problem with. Amongst others you spread sunshine wherever you go. All this is just one day - my the rage inside is busting...
Your genius is showing through.

you are a total ______________ in my book.
I've got your pronunciation right here Racist Ralph.

you already do buy it lock, stock and barrel. You genius you.

I'm the only one making insulting posts, that's it.

As Tom would say, I'm profilific. And I'm intersting. And whittey. And braive. And gorgus.

By the way, speaking of elementary school, why can't little Tommy spell?

PA, good god, what are you using upstairs, really?

I've got your amusement.

Watch the video. Watching boob tubes is probably something you're real proficient at.

Two more debate team dropouts chime in. I'm underwhelmed. But I will offer you free spelling lessons if you'll quit posting drivel.

Great logic. You must have won lots of debates in your time.

You need to check your facts before you make a fool of yourself.

You really don't get it at all. Is it too much Rush Limbaugh or too much of the same dope, you tell us.

Snopes is a total piece of unadulterated crap.

Nicely scripted.

I don't know why you'd make such a ridiculously presumptuous statement PA.

I guess I'm dense, I'll have to be more discreet about my insults, as others are.

Leave that alone. MORE RON.

So what you're telling me is that people have tried to deprogram and undue your brainwashing but you've refused such treatment or that it hasn't worked for you. Mind if I call you Sheeple?

I'd love to have an intelligent debate, but right now I don't have the time and energy to deprogram you first, which would obviously be a necessity.

I see a distinct difference between glaringly obvious reality and the utter nonsense you propose to be true. Indeed

Now that we know Whobet, WhoWon, or is that not really important?

Off the first idiot you see. He shouldn't be hard to find once you find a mirror.

Wake up and smell the tyranny of all of these creeple and stop being sheeple.

Next you'll call me a liberal again, that will show your IQ.

So, sorry he's not a satanist, he's a luciferian.

Calling me a liberal, how foolish. You've heard truth before and rejected it because you're a typical brainwashed sheeple type.

Since you're obviously not aware, most all terrorist incidents and groups are creations of the puppet masters behind the scenes, but that's way too deep for you no doubt.

Suff, Don't waste your breath here. The People, excuse me, the Sheeple of PA have spoken. No gullibility here. The best slaves are those that believe they are free. This here is my A+ slave, he's a keeper, never gives me any trouble.

Friends don't let friends believe mindless propaganda spewed out from every orifice in establishment media, academia and government. Apparently you ned a few friends to set you straight. Did you get the A+ in Advanced Gullibility?

No, actually the more I hear your rants, the more I'm convinced that in relation, I'm brilliant and well-balanced. Rant on, foolio.

When you get your ass kicked by my people you'll know you got your pronounciation right, cracker.

[PaceAdvantage]

Not at all. Just fascinating that you apparently overlooked the volleys from the other side, which you certainly have a right to do, but please don't tell me you're being objective about it when you do.

You set the ball rolling on the insults Mr. Koko. I'm being completely objective.

[PaceAdvantage]

Let's not forget the cries of martyrdom as s(he)'s being escorted into the black helicopter to be whisked away into the night....

When in reality, s(he) only need read the writing on the wall to realize this is a moderated board....

[Sailwolf]

This thread started with a comment regarding the gay marriage ban.



WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PaceAdvantage]

Yeah, it's pretty nutty, isn't it? Humans are a strange lot.

Much like DeNiro changing his mind at the poker game regarding Maury, I too will say "Forget about tonight. Forget it."

[bigmack]

Had you not made the stupid remark about conspiracy nut theories, I'd give you the benefit of the doubt of being someone with an open mind who might grasp the alternative reality of the supposed cell calls. But since you made that comment, no, you don't deserve an answer because I've determined it would be an utter waste of my time. Now humor me and tell me that you believe the "official 9/11 story". In other words make my day and say yes.
For us willing to humor this fellow and believe, you can hear via the below link the "supposed calls" of people who were soon to be dead as a result of persons highjacking their plane. It ain't altenative reality - it's real reality.

May they rest in peace. Free of this guy clinging to the notion of them not making these calls and using this conspiracy theorem for his own aggrandizement and cerebral stroke session.
http://americanradioworks.publicradio.org/features/911/full.ram

[Koko]

For us willing to humor this fellow and believe, you can hear via the below link the "supposed calls" of people who were soon to be dead as a result of persons highjacking their plane. It ain't altenative reality - it's real reality.

May they rest in peace. Free of this guy clinging to the notion of them not making these calls and using this conspiracy theorem for his own aggrandizement and cerebral stroke session.
http://americanradioworks.publicradio.org/features/911/full.ram

A real brain surgeon you are LittleCrack.

We already know via the Northwoods Document, that high government officials, at least that once, we're quite willing to MURDER AMERICAN CITIZENS to jump start their war. Yet it's at the same time, too out of your reach to fathom the possibility that either involved intelligence agencies coerced or faked these seemingly impossibly (technology) made calls. Just way beyond the ability or intent of an intelligence agency that could be involved in 9/11 huh.

Your logic is simply pitiful.

[Tom]

No, just would like to see any semblence of evidence - not some document from 1962!

Sheez - I thought it was a a bad dream!

[Koko]

No, just would like to see any semblence of evidence - not some document from 1962!

Sheez - I thought it was a a bad dream!

What's really sad is that you're probably not ashamed to admit that you buy the official 9/11 story hook, line and sinker. That pretty says everything about your view of truth and proof.

Where is your proof of the veracity of the official story?

Go find a high school chemistry teacher who can demostrate how to perfectly implode a reinforced steel building using jet fuel. Then come back and talk to me.

[lsbets]

I thought for sure Koko would have been swept away by the men in black helicopters during the night for his efforts to reveal the truth. I can't believe he's still free! :jump:

[Koko]

Let's not forget the cries of martyrdom as s(he)'s being escorted into the black helicopter to be whisked away into the night....



You do a whole lot to inspire a civil tone here PA. Real consistency, that's impressive. Grow up. Suff's right. You either don't have the mind or the balls to get it right.

[Tom]

What's really sad is that you're probably not ashamed to admit that you buy the official 9/11 story hook, line and sinker. That pretty says everything about your view of truth and proof.

Where is your proof of the veracity of the official story?

Go find a high school chemistry teacher who can demostrate how to perfectly implode a reinforced steel building using jet fuel. Then come back and talk to me.

Neither tower imploded, or exploded. They both COLLAPSED, It is clearly seen on video tape and analyzed by the guy who designed the towers! Do you blindly believe any crap you read on the web?

[Tom]

You do a whole lot to inspire a civil tone here PA. Real consistency, that's impressive. Grow up. Suff's right. You either don't have the mind or the balls to get it right.


Over/under is Noon today! :lol:

[lsbets]

Over/under is Noon today! :lol:

I don't know - this might be the fastest growing thread in OT. I can't remember one going from 10 posts to over 140 in under 24 hours before. I don't think PA does anything on this one. Koko is trying to egg him on with the no balls comment, but I don't think PAs going to do it.

[Koko]

Over/under is Noon today! :lol:

For you growing a brain? Don't think so. It ain't likely to happen ever from what it appears.

[Koko]

Do you blindly believe any crap you read on the web?

Certainly not when it has your monkey ass logo attached to it.

You believe the wildest bullshit and act like I'm the lunatic. Sheer proof of your utter lunacy. I'm done with you Monkey Breath. Carry on with your mindless banter.

[lsbets]

Koko - try to get a high school schemistry teacher to implode a building with jet fuel.

Tom - the buildings didn't implode, they collapsed.

Koko - you have a monkey logo!

Koko - would you care to address Tom's point that the buildings didn't implode but collapsed? Or can you not respond to that point?

[Mike at A+]

Don't you guys sleep?

[Koko]

Koko - try to get a high school schemistry teacher to implode a building with jet fuel.

Tom - the buildings didn't implode, they collapsed.

Koko - you have a monkey logo!

Koko - would you care to address Tom's point that the buildings didn't implode but collapsed? Or can you not respond to that point?

How ridiculous is this? Of course they COLLAPSED. No shit sherlock. This is more of Tommy's little bullshit mentality.

WHY DID THEY COLLAPSE? That's my point. They obviously (except to cretins) collapsed due to internal charges that imploded the buildings.

Answer my question ISBETS, do you buy the official story or not. With no "it's still not clear stuff" like someone else around here. Yes or No

[lsbets]

How ridiculous is this? Of course they COLLAPSED. No shit sherlock. This is more of Tommy's little bullshit mentality.

WHY DID THEY COLLAPSE? That's my point. They obviously (except to cretins) collapsed due to internal charges that imploded the buildings.

Answer my question ISBETS, do you buy the official story or not. With no "it's still not clear stuff" like someone else around here. Yes or No

Dude - I answered your question. Would you care to share what makes it so obvious that they "collapsed due to internal charges". I'm willing to bet that I can respond and show that at the very least your contention is not so obvious and then you will respond by getting mad again.

[Tom]

Certainly not when it has your monkey ass logo attached to it.

You believe the wildest bullshit and act like I'm the lunatic. Sheer proof of your utter lunacy. I'm done with you Monkey Breath. Carry on with your mindless banter.

MY monkey ass?
How about YOUR monkey ass?


http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/koko/

[Mike at A+]

I'll bet the under.

[Lefty]

Had you not made the stupid remark about conspiracy nut theories, I'd give you the benefit of the doubt of being someone with an open mind who might grasp the alternative reality of the supposed cell calls. But since you made that comment, no, you don't deserve an answer because I've determined it would be an utter waste of my time. Now humor me and tell me that you believe the "official 9/11 story". In other words make my day and say yes.

It's obvious you can't logically answer the question and keep your conspiracy theory intact. Instead you bluster.

[Koko]

It's obvious you can't logically answer the question and keep your conspiracy theory intact. Instead you bluster.

The problem with you believers in the official fairy tale is that your version is totally in tatters, but you'd rather nit pick about which alternative version may be not exactly quite perfect. How clueless can you get?

[Lefty]

Wasn't Koko the gorilla that was supposed to sign and communicate with humans? Hmmmmm...

[Tom]

Wasn't Koko the gorilla that was supposed to sign and communicate with humans? Hmmmmm...

Lefty - yup.
Maybe KoKo would understand a sign better than words? :lol:

[Lefty]

The problem with you believers in the official fairy tale is that your version is totally in tatters, but you'd rather nit pick about which alternative version may be not exactly quite perfect. How clueless can you get?
Give it up if you can't answer the question. The onus of proof is in your court, since you are the disbeliever. Too many people on the ground got those cell phone calls. And it was proven 4 airplanes never reached their intended destination.
What would be the motive for the govt(Bush?) to orchestrate 9-11 and how do you keep the multitude of people it would take to do it, quiet? Too many holes in your theory. If you can't logically answr don't bother to bluster or demean, it's a waste of my time.

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm upset that KoKo can't act more civil in this arena. Other people on here that KoKo has had private dealings with tell me he's not all that bad a guy, which is why I gave him the benefit of the doubt....

I just don't understand why he can't play by the rules of this board. It's almost like he wants to get kicked off....

A civil person would just lay out the evidence (be it circumstantial, or whatever) and let us decide for ourselves if we wish to ponder if there is an alternate explanation to the events of 9/11.

Instead, he browbeats and insults those who don't immediately fall into lockstep with his views.

KoKo, buddy, what's your problem? Chill, relax, and stop calling people names. What is this, the 2nd grade? Grow up.

[Dave Schwartz]

That link Suff posted was excellent for proving that the WTC was hit by a plane without a bomb (which was one of the points behind the conspiracy theory).

Apparently, the missle or bomb location was exactly where the landing gear would be. It would have been a little tough to take off without landing gear extended.


Dave

[csperberg]

All I can say is wow. This is my first posting on this site and I am sorry its not about racing, but I just have to throw my 2 cents in if I may.

This is going to be a little long but once I start typing it keeps flowing.

It seems to me that everything I have read in this post is mumble jumble imho. I just don't see how any normal person would even care.

Here are the facts something happed on 9/11. Some buildings got hit and some fell. Some people died, some got hurt, and most of the world wasnt no where near any of it so for the most part they just watched. Planes were used yes, at the pentago more than likely yes as well I was not there so I can not say 100%.

Do we know the real story behind the events, probably not but I would be willing to be for the most part we do. Do we ever know the real story behind anything, most often not because nobody seems to be able to report a story as truth. To me it seems all major history is filled with its written histories, and then its filled with a bunch of conspiracies as well. Some histories for the most part have been true as far as one can put together considering the information at hand. Some conspiracies do hold an interesting point of view defying history as it is written. Do either serve to tell me what I will never really know, no they not.

I could live in the past, but I guess since I get a second chance with the present and future I will toss the past away and look forward to try again. I cant change the world, nor can the inhabitants of it. For the most part the world gets along just fine, just a few outsiders make trouble for the rest of us. Things like war, greed, jealousy, fear and anger have plagued mankind and continues to plague mankind. Do we actually think we can take the animal out of us, I dont think so. We still have our genetic instincts in us. We are social but yet territorial animals that happens to have a cunning mind. We can all get along when things are good. When they turn bad for one or one side our instincts to survive kicks in. This is so because we think we have to have what we dont have in order to survive. Humans suffer from this inability to not always have to have everything they want. Maybe it was from a time gone by before the discovery of agricultre and livestock herding. There probably was a quite along span of time where human like creatures had to really scrape by to survive. This would probably install a instinct over millions of years that in order to survive the person with the most wins. Just a crazy idea I had to throw in there.

The obvious answer to the worlds problems is right in front of our eyes. Most of us on here probably live by it. Its horse racing and let me tell you why. Horse racing seems to be the one place where everybody can go and have all sorts of opinions, legitimate to crazy ones, and still be able to get along. Its a place where we all take risks, some get rewarded some dont, in the end we all pick ourselves up and go right back at it again. Imagine a World Leader Horse Racing day. A day where all world leaders are ordered by the people of the world to attend a full card of horse racing. There they will have to handicap races and realize that just because some guy like and Arab likes the 5 in the 6th and a Jew likes the 4, that they cant both still enjoy the race. Conservitive and Liberals should as well, all heck the world should just be forced to attend one day of horse racing worldwide.

Obviously this would never be a reality, but its just a clever way to show that we can all have differnt opinions. If you keep them to yourself you will never look like a king, nor will you ever look like a fool. Its the chance circumstance we all take when we chose to voice our opinions. Those who speak out should come forth and become leaders, if you shout and do not lead then you should be quiet and follow along. Shouting with no leading is just shouting and nobody likes a shouter.

I will say this though just because I have to. This whole Bush Admin spying on us thing really should just stop people this is nothing new. Really the turning over of phone records is mumble jumble as well. This spying of this type has been going on for many many years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON and http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/503224.stm and the second one is from 1999 before President Bush was in office and from the first one it sounds like basically its been going on since the cold war. I knew about this when it was still just rumor. No differnt than Area-51 or any other government coverup, sometimes the public is best left not knowing because they tend to make the wrong choices. One good example horse racing if the public betting favorite only wins that 33% of the time number that means they are making alot of mistakes.

So think about that if the general public really knew the truth what mistakes would they make as well. I would have to imagine the world is a pretty hard place to manage I wouldnt want the job. The public should stay out of wars too, leave it to those who want to fight it. Who cares about the cost of war either, its not like money is just afigment of our imagination anyway. Since the world just makes it up the world just makes more. Who cares about lives lost in war either, last time I checked that was part of war. If a soldier falls sure we should morn them, they did a deed most would never tred. If a soldier goes to battle we should not riddicule them, they are once again doing something most would never do. Who cares about civilians who die in war, those are just the facts of war sad as they sound. You know what the world is filled with a lot of sad stories everyday that no one ever hears about. Human life for the most part is a sad story filled with mostly sorrow and hardships only to be filled with happiness from time to time. We are not happy and have only sorrow from time to time. Life like the buddha said is meant to suffer. We are born we suffer we live we suffer and when we die we suffer. One mans happines is usually at the expense of anothers grief or loss.

Anyway I could just keep rambling on and on about it so I will quit now. One thing to the conspiracy people you got to check out David Icke. He likes to talk about that draconian blood line you guys talk about. I have only checked out a few things from him, downloading one right now, but he will make you think a little even more about things and get the conspiracy mind just a brewing..lol. If you know about using a bit torrrent client for downloading then you probably know some places where you will be able to find it if you want to check him out. I wont post the site since it may conduct illegal downloading, but if one was not looking for a supernova they might be looking for a mini one.org. Hope that didnt cross the lines with the mods, if so sorry.

lates

[bigmack]

interesting first post cs.
how's the weather in green bay?

[PaceAdvantage]

Well, if everything in this thread is mumble jumble, I guess your post is in the perfect place!

Welcome aboard!

[csperberg]

weather is fine and dandy here in Green Bay. Sure wish Wisconsin had some live races to attend..lol

Yes even mine is just mumble jumble in the end..lol I am not more correct on my views than I am wrong they are just my views..lol

Thanks for having me aboard

[bigmack]

where ya at there in GB
I know the town pretty well from my NFL days.

[csperberg]

I actually grew up my whole life right across the street from Lambeau field on Shadow Lane runs parallel with Lombardi. I still live really close only about a mile away. I use to get into a bunch of shinanigans when I was young at Lambeau field back when the gates just use to be open for anyone to walk in. I use to hit golf balls out my backyard and hit the old sheet metal skin of the stadium too..lol

[bigmack]

you aren't the janitor that i use to kid around with are you?

[PaceAdvantage]

you aren't the janitor that i use to kid around with are you?

This is why God invented Private Messaging.

[csperberg]

sorry will do.

[JustRalph]

This is why God invented Private Messaging.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Suff]

This is why God invented Private Messaging.

Microsoft is God.........:eek: ?

[Suff]

Since the Subject is hate..... Let give you some examples of real hate. So much hate it'd kill a Gorilla.



"We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too. Otherwise, they will turn out to be outright traitors."

--Ann Coulter, at the Conservative Political Action Conference, 02-26-02




"If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being."

--Jerry Falwell






"Brute beasts ... part of a vile and satanic system [that] will be utterly annihilated, and there will be a celebration in heaven."
-- Jerry Falwell, on homosexuals, as quoted in The Bible Tells Me So, 1996


"The State carries the power of the sword, that is, the power to prohibit [homosexual] conduct with physical penalties, such as confinement and even execution. It must use that power to prevent the subversion of children toward this lifestyle." Judge Roy Moore -- from a 2002 concurrence in a custody case involving a lesbian mother







"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good... Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called on by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."

--Randall Terry, The News Sentinel, (Ft. Wayne, IN.), 8/16/93






"With all due respect to those dear people, my friend, God Almighty does not hear the prayer of a Jew."--Bailey Smith, a founding father of Robertson's Christian Coalition, once told 15,000 people at a Religious Roundtable briefing in Dallas, June 26, 1994






"The people who have come into (our) institutions (today) are primarily termites. They are into destroying institutions that have been built by Christians, whether it is universities, governments, our own traditions, that we have.... The termites are in charge now, and that is not the way it ought to be, and the time has arrived for a godly fumigation."

- Pat Robertson, to New Yorker Magazine, 1986




“Barring a miracle, the family as it has been known for more than five millennia will crumble, presaging the fall of Western civilization itself.... For more than 40 years, the homosexual activist movement has sought to implement a master plan that has had as its centerpiece the utter destruction of the family.” - Dr. James Dobson of Focus on The Family, in a July 2004 letter to supporters



"Most of these feminists are radical, frustrated lesbians, many of them, and man-haters, and failures in their relationships with men, and who have declared war on the male gender. The Biblical condemnation of feminism has to do with its radical philosophy and goals. That's the bottom line."

--Jerry Falwell







"The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians." Pat Robertson, In a 1992 fundraising letter




"Men in the pro-choice movement are either men trapped in women's bodies...or younger guys who are like camp followers looking for easy sex."

--Rep. Bob Dornan (R-CA)


"I want to coin a phrase here, and I don't mind help. What would be the communication version of "ethnic cleansing?" Because that's what in particular the homosexual activists try to do."

--Dr. Laura Schlessinger, August 11, 1999







"Our culture is superior. Our culture is superior because our religion is Christianity and that is the truth that makes men free."

--Pat Buchanan, speech to the Christian Coalition, Sept. 1993, as reported in ADL Report, 1994






"I've never seen a man in my life I wanted to marry. And I'm gonna be blunt and plain: if one ever looks at me like that, I'm gonna kill him and tell God he died." - The Rev. Jimmy Swaggart, in a September 2004 evangelism television broadcast






"I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."

--President George Bush








Homosexuals are dangerous. They proselytize. They come to the door, and if your son answers and there is nobody there to stop it, they grab the son and run off with him. They steal him. They take him away and turn him into a homosexual." Lou Sheldon - In 1992, as reported by journalist Jimmy

[Tom]

Was there a point in all that, or are you testing your keyboard?

Should I post the same number of hate comments by the left, or do you still have your newletters?

[Suff]

Should I post the same number of hate comments by the left,

Yes.

[Tom]

Start off by any quote by John Kerry in the 70's. That should keep you busy for a while. If not, move on to Robert Byrd - "snap" Bryd, KKK.

[Secretariat]

Good post Suff.

Some of that Compassionate Conservatism in action, and that Christian doctrine of "Love thy neightbor", but if they ain't a neighbor then the hell with them. If they are a neighbor, you can love them only if they think exactly like you, and are not gay, another race, or religion and drink the same beer you do.

The GW quote was priceless.

[Tom]

Amazing how these evil hate mongers keep winning all the elections, isn't it?:lol::lol::lol:

[Mike at A+]

That's all very nice Suff but with the exception of the Coulter comment, everything you quote are generalizations (and even her words should be heeded because in reality, John Walker's intentions were pretty sinister).

But when you look at the quotes by the left, they are usually very specific, very accusatory and almost always without any cold hard evidence. It's always things like "Bush lied", "he betrayed this country", "he played on your fears", etc. They all sound very attractive to people with the agenda of having him impeached but in reality, they are without any proof.

The people you quote are entitled to their views. They may be a little whacky to you but they ARE entitled to them. They don't advocate any criminal activity, they don't falsely accuse anyone specific of any crimes and they certainly don't show any betrayal of one's country.

Some things I've heard from the left do in fact advocate violence and even killing. In the run up to the 2004 election, 9 out of 10 election related crimes can be attributed to liberals and Democrats.

So the bottom line is that you can quote lots of people on both the left and on the right. But look more closely at what they are actually saying. I don't recall any high profile conservatives or Republicans discussing a bullet between the eyes of Hillary Clinton. If you have, please tell us.

[Tom]

Mike, the gut later said it wasn't hate, but rather studpidity that made him say that! :lol: They are begining to see the truth on the left!:lol:

[Secretariat]

That's all very nice Suff but with the exception of the Coulter comment, everything you quote are generalizations (and even her words should be heeded because in reality, John Walker's intentions were pretty sinister).

But when you look at the quotes by the left, they are usually very specific, very accusatory and almost always without any cold hard evidence. It's always things like "Bush lied", "he betrayed this country", "he played on your fears", etc. They all sound very attractive to people with the agenda of having him impeached but in reality, they are without any proof.

The people you quote are entitled to their views. They may be a little whacky to you but they ARE entitled to them. They don't advocate any criminal activity, they don't falsely accuse anyone specific of any crimes and they certainly don't show any betrayal of one's country.

Some things I've heard from the left do in fact advocate violence and even killing. In the run up to the 2004 election, 9 out of 10 election related crimes can be attributed to liberals and Democrats.

So the bottom line is that you can quote lots of people on both the left and on the right. But look more closely at what they are actually saying. I don't recall any high profile conservatives or Republicans discussing a bullet between the eyes of Hillary Clinton. If you have, please tell us.

I'd like to see the link that shows Hillary Clinton saying this and the context of the whole speech. I'm not a fan of Hillary, but I wonder iof this isn't a little more swift boating.

As to the bullet remark, seems Bill O'Reilly beat Hillary to the punch if indeed she did say it.

"Did you know that 24 hours after the Super Bowl incident Bill O'Reilly said on his show -- and I'm quoting -- "I want to kill Michael Moore." He was talking to Rudolph Giuliani about the left and the people who attack him. Once he told a caller to his show that he'd like to -- and once again I quote -- "put a bullet through Al Franken's head."

I guess it's OK to say over national television if it's a far right idealogue. Frankly, it's distasteful whoever says it, but I'd like a little proof - not anecdotal or WorldMax or WorldNet or the National Enquirer.

[Mike at A+]

I'd like to see the link that shows Hillary Clinton saying this and the context of the whole speech. I'm not a fan of Hillary, but I wonder iof this isn't a little more swift boating.

As to the bullet remark, seems Bill O'Reilly beat Hillary to the punch if indeed she did say it.

"Did you know that 24 hours after the Super Bowl incident Bill O'Reilly said on his show -- and I'm quoting -- "I want to kill Michael Moore." He was talking to Rudolph Giuliani about the left and the people who attack him. Once he told a caller to his show that he'd like to -- and once again I quote -- "put a bullet through Al Franken's head."

I guess it's OK to say over national television if it's a far right idealogue. Frankly, it's distasteful whoever says it, but I'd like a little proof - not anecdotal or WorldMax or WorldNet or the National Enquirer.

I never said Hillary Clinton uttered those words. It was Alan Hevesi discussing what "Chuck Schumer would like to do if he could get away with it". The other point is that pundits on both sides say dumb things. But you don't expect to hear stuff like this from HIGH LEVEL PARTY OFFICIALS! For every O'Reilly and Coulter on the right, there is someone on the left saying pretty much the same things.

[Suff]

! For every O'Reilly and Coulter on the right, there is someone on the left saying pretty much the same things.

The only thing I can suggest is that you try and be more honest with yourself.

Virtually every quote I gave speaks in "Hitleresque" tones.

Annihlation. Fumigation, Conquering, Physically Intimidate, Kill, failure as a human being, we're superior, threat to our civilization.

They're talking about thier fellow citizens here. Not terrorists.


These are not some off the cuff hot-head political comments. This is a movement. A movement similiar to Nazism. I see it. I'm not trying to convince you of it, or entice you to agree with me. I'm just posting the quotes. The quotes are horrendous and frightening to free people everywhere. I don't see anything remotely close to these quotes from Liberals or progressives. When I do, they are fringe people, or isolated entity's.

The people I quote here have Millions of followers. They are Mainstream Republicans. One is a president.

Do all people of various persuations make bombastic statements? Yes, of course. But these quotes prove a systematic attempt to detain, restrain, capture, violate and ultimately exterminate all who don't accept they're view of mankind.

It is bone chilling. Nothing coming from the mainstream left even approachs this level of evil.

[Mike at A+]

Virtually every quote I gave speaks in "Hitleresque" tones.


Please spare me the "Hitler" references because we could talk about MoveOn.org which wasn't nearly as subtle as what you are quoting from the right. Besides, just because old AH used a specific word or phrase, does that mean everyone who ever uses that same word has to be compared to him? When you quote them all together in the same post, your intention is to show the similarities when in reality, every one of the quotes you mention were said independent of each other. I certainly don't advocate the extermination of anyone (except terrorists for obvious reasons). I don't follow Falwell or Robertson nor do I take seriously most anything they say. "Fire and brimstone" preachers have no place in my life.

BUT I hold politicians to a much higher standard than I do preachers and pundits. When a partisan politician accuses the president of lying but is silent about the plethora of politicians on his side of the aisle who said the very same thing, anyone with half a brain can see right through the words all the way through the agenda.

[Suff]

[QUOTE]Please spare me the "Hitler" references because we could talk about MoveOn.org which wasn't nearly as subtle as what you are quoting from the right.

Spare you? Its right there in Black and White....:lol: Please, if you have something from moveon.org that talks about exterminating, incacerating, fumigating, killing people to intimidate Conservatives, or suggest's allowing a wave of intolerance, or a wave of hatred to come over you...POST IT!

This is what troubles folks like me. The Denial. The absolute mind boggling ability you have to look at the quotes and not see how EXACTLTY LIKE HITLERS that they are. You seem so inteligent...you appear to have deductive reasoning, yet when I present you with clear and concise facts you are somehow able to disregard them with platitudes.

It's mind boggling to me.

Later I'll post some more quotes for you. But in the meantime, let me share with you the new "game" being distributed (free in many of roberston's church's).

It's called SOUL HARVEST. There are others but I like this one. It's about Christians waging war against the non-believers and the anti-christ



Here's a screen shot of Christians Killing and arresting Non-beleivers, in of all places ....NEW YORK CITY!

A top aide to mega-church pastor Rick Warren is advising the makers of a children's video game in which characters kill New Yorkers while shouting "Praise the Lord." (http://www.latimes.com/features/religion/la-fi-godgames10may10,1,2229666.story?coll=la-news-religion)

" 'Left Behind' has the Antichrist, the end of the world, the apocalypse," said co-creator Jeffrey S. Frichner. "It's got all the Christian stuff, and it's still got all the cool stuff."


http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c219/talk2action/trailer18.jpg


"The reason that I think this game has a chance is that it's not particularly preachy," said Michael Pachter, an analyst at Wedbush Morgan Securities. "I will say some of the dialogue is pretty lame -- people saying, 'Praise the Lord' after they blow away the bad guys.


Mike who is like the Terrorists? Did'nt they say " PRAISE ALLAH " when the planes hit the WTC?...:lol:




How about this nifty game feature: the bodies of slain New Yorkers don't disappear after a battle, and no one gives them a decent burial. Instead, the festering corpses just keep piling up: left behind. Is that "Christian" or "cool"?

Or how about this: The game portrays the United Nations - hello again, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Catholics, and Jews - as the headquarters of the demonic forces of the AntiChrist, who is spawned by DNA from two gay lovers So nice to see you all, my errant, resisting brothers and sisters. BLAM! BLAM! "Praise the Lord!"



Mr Mike from A+ , I'll come back at you later. But I would like to say. Do you know who I blame for all this? You. You went into a voting booth and saw a lever. One had a decent man. A man who won Purple hearts defending your freedom. You stood by while these sick bastards tore his service to you down to nothing. Then when you reached out for the lever you stuck a knife in his back. You voted these sick bastards into power. Your responsible.

Next time you go into a voting booth. Don't think of yourself, or even your kids. Think of your kids kids, and if you want them to be free. Or if want them rounded up and slaughtered in the name of GOD!

[PaceAdvantage]

Isn't it utterly amazing that when ANY Republican ANYWHERE says ANYTHING even REMOTELY off-color or controversial, either SEC, HCAP, LJB, or others of their ilk WILL BE THE FIRST to put that news item on here....

BUT, when someone like Alan Hevesi makes a totally inappropriate comment about the President, and comes off looking like a total jackass (this was the guy who was partly responsible for frying NYRA's balls), SEC acts as if he never heard of the incident.....

Funny stuff....

[Mike at A+]

Wow, where do I start? Do I even want to start? Let me say this. Pat Robertson means NOTHING to me. George W. Bush means EVERYTHING to me when compared to the last several presidents we've had. He's the first in a long time to have the balls to say "oh yeah - you want to f*** with the US"? These yahoos think nothing of offing your kids in a school or your wife while she's out grocery shopping. Not only did I vote for Bush but I also sent him a letter of congratulations after winning two tough races. He ran a clean campaign twice while the Democrats stooped to every freakin dirty trick in the book. There was the 30 year old DUI brought up 3 days before election 2000 and you name it in 2004. He wrote me back in April 2001 and that letter hangs framed proudly in my den. He's the kind of president you either love or hate. I love him and I'd vote for him over any Mickey Mouse Democrat including your phony Purple Heart gigalo who STILL hasn't fully released his military records. Dems, no platform, no ideas, no scruples. Just obstruction and trash talk.

[Suff]

He ran a clean campaign twice while the Democrats stooped to every freakin dirty trick in the book. .


Mike, Mike, Mike... OPEN YOUR EYES MAN!


Remeber John Mcain? He beat Bush in Iowa caucas. Then he beat him in the NH primary. So now they go off to South Carolina.

What did Bush do to McCain in South Carolina?

He used Push polls. He had church people calling Republicans and saying

Did you know John Mccain adopted a Black Baby?

Never mind the kid is from Bangaledesh. But he fed into thier fears and bias's and he won SC and from there the dirty tricks continued.

A black baby!!!! Imagine he did this to a decortated Veteran! A man who spent 6 years in a POW camp! He did that to Him.

And you call him clean!!! He's a dirty rotten bastard.

You wrong...dead wrong.



They sprang into action in 2000 when Bush was running in the primaries against John McCain. After getting beat in New Hampshire by McCain, Bush’s first event was at Bob Jones University in South Carolina. Standing next to Bush on the stage was a veteran who went right at McCain, questioning his Vietnam service while Bush remained silent. A whisper campaign told voters that McCain had a black child. (The McCains have an adopted daughter from Bangladesh.) McCain lost the primary; the veteran became a Bush administration appointee.


Here's an interview McCain did with Dad Magazine

McCain: Yeah. There were some pretty vile and hurtful things said during the South Carolina primary. It's a really nasty side of politics. We tried to ignore it and I think we shielded her from it. It's just unfortunate that that sort of thing still exists As you know she's Bengali, and very dark skinned. A lot of phone calls were made by people who said we should be very ashamed about her, about the color of her skin. Thousands and thousands of calls from people to voters saying "You know the McCains have a black baby" I believe that there is a special place in hell for people like those.

Dadmag: That must have made you pretty angry?

McCain: Yes, except that you have to consider the kind of people who do it. Getting angry doesn't serve any useful purpose. But the calls increased my zeal for winning. (laughs)

[Tom]

As far as McCain goes, ANYTHING that defeats a POS traitor like him justifies the ends. His recent actions make him more qualified for prison cell than the oval office.

And man, you guys that keep sinking to the Hiltler references - you are the bottom feeders that hold your party down. It is disgusting and shows a total ignorance on your part to to even remotely suggest anything going on politically is like nazis. You guys have no class whatsoever.

[Mike at A+]

But did George Bush say anything about it?? NO! How about when Kerry had his televised "hate fest" with Chevy Chase and Whoopi Goldberg? Not only didn't Kerry remain silent, but he called these lowlife slobs "Mainstream Americans". There are dirty tricks on both sides. But rarely does a candidate openly support them. Kerry DID. Both he and Al Gore would have made lousy presidents. The War on Terror is long overdue. Going back to the Munich Olympics these bastards have been killing random innocent victims. Gore and Kerry would negotiate and we all know how valid the word of these yahoos is. Bush negotiates with daisy cutters. When they've had enough, then maybe we can talk. Apparently they haven't had enough yet. I want to see waving white flags. I want to see Osama and Zarqawi come out of their caves with their hands up. Until then, bombs away.

[Suff]

But rarely does a candidate openly support them..

Support them? Bush gave the guy a Job!:faint:

[Mike at A+]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=562244536054710625&q=genre%3Acomedy&pl=true

[Mike at A+]

"Mainstream Americans". You know, the kind who make childish body part jokes about someones name.

I wish I could handicap a race as well as I handicap politics. Democrats are adopting LOSING POSITIONS just for the sake of being on the opposite side of the president. They are betting on that 99/1 shot in hopes of breaking even. When Bush does something that is so obviously correct, they HAVE TO DISAGREE because any form of agreement might add a point or two to a meaningless approval rating. Sad when that is what the party has been reduced to.

[Suff]

"[QUOTE]
Mainstream Americans". You know, the kind who make childish body part jokes about someones name.


How'd you make your living>? I've worked in many area's. Blue Collar and White collar. My experience has been that when women are'nt around ( or sometimes when they are) , Guys joke about sex allllll day long. They bust each others balls about it, they tease each other about all kinds of stuff.

Show me a wall street trading floor that isn't Locker room humor all day long.

Now what? Your trying to convince me that that shit don't happen in yoru world?

Your a horse player? What the F do horse players carry to the track with them along with the form? They're BIBLE?

You can Bullshit yourself , but you can't BS me. I've been around!

Your trying to insuiate that when someone like whoopi goldberg makes a profane reference its UNMAINSTREAM AMERICAN? Jesus --oh--Jesus are you really beleieving that?

I w Democrats are adopting LOSING POSITIONS just for the sake of being on the opposite side of the president.


It's thier consitutional obligation. Believe me,,,many of them woud just as soon not. But read the founding documents. Congress was set up to always include a "VITAL OPPOSITION"!! Its in the documents fer christ sakes..........and you call it unamerican. Its about as American as you can get to chide power!!! Geeesh Mike.



Mike, I show you Nazi's....you dismiss that and show me Chevy Chase?

I call your attention to a speech BUSH gave in Brussels


But Bush sounded less charitable on Monday in a speech in Brussels intended to help reinvigorate the trans-Atlantic alliance and heal the U.S. rift with Europe over Iraq.

Referring to Putin's recent steps to consolidate power, roll back democratic gains and curb press and political freedoms, Bush told European leaders Monday:

"We must always remind Russia that our alliance stands for a free press, a vital opposition, the sharing of power and the rule of law. The United States should place democratic reform at the heart of their dialogue with Russia


What? Vital opposition is good for Russia but not for A+ handicapping American? No no no... You want everyone to just agree. If only they'd agree..then things would be better. If only they just say things are good in iraq. Then, for christsakes, things WOULD be good in Iraq. the reason Iraq is bad is that the opposition says it is!!:lol:




Democracy is premised on a few fundamental assumptions and one of them is the existence of a robust and vital opposition. For power to be exercised with responsibility in a democracy – it is critical that checks and balances provide accountability. This was a provision built in to the United States constitution by its founders. With the re-election of President Bush, an administration beholden to an evangelical Christian base, Republican party control of the Senate and House, and the ability to shape the future character of the Supreme court – these checks and balances appear to have all but disappeared. In this new reality, the role of conscience, skeptic and guardians of core constitutional values must now lie with the party in opposition - yes, I am talking about the Democrats!



What can I tell you Mike? You don't want vital opposition? That makes you UNAMERICAN in my book. AND I love America. Its the greatest country on earth, and if you don't like what the founders started then why don't you go somewhere else. BUT DON"T CHANGE MY COUNTRY!!!






Chevy Chase? Your kidding me right? I'm talking the entire executive branch and your flipping a donut over Chevy Chase?

[Mike at A+]

Hey Suff, you're comparing a group of how many - 3, 4, 5, 50 track buddies talking "locker room humor"? I'm talking about a national TV audience of MILLIONS. No comparison. You want to bash the president with your Massachusettes track buddies at Suffolk Downs? Be my guest. But when a presidential candidate sanctions the disgusting crap coming from that over the hill comedian, that's stooping to a new low.

And "vital opposition" should rise above the schoolyard level. Hell, I was in 3rd grade when those comments were of any merit. Adulthood brings responsibilities, especially when you're talking about the leader of the free world.

And you haven't shown me Nazis. You've shown me words. Words that may have been used by a very bad man but the same words that you and I have also both used in whatever context we have chosen.

If I'm "unAmerican" in your book, you obviously don't know me. Is everyone who voted for Bush unAmerican in your book too? From one of your previous posts, I'd have to say you think that.

And I don't want "everyone to agree". But when they disagree, I want it done in good taset - like adults, not little schoolyard punks.

And it's not the fact that it was Chevy Chase - it's that fact that it was done on prime time TV in front of a national audience and got far more press than it deserved. But thankfully, the American voters saw through the childish bullshit of your failing party and DQ's Kerry.

Bottom line - someone wants to kill my kids because they are American - I want them f***ing vaporized. Bush believes that. I believe that. I don't know any Democrat (other than Joe Lieberman and Zell Miller) who believes that.

[Suff]

[QUOTE]

Bottom line - someone wants to kill my kids because they are American - I want them f***ing vaporized. Bush believes that. I believe that. I don't know any Democrat (other than Joe Lieberman and Zell Miller) who believes that.


That's Texas tough talk. It sounds good, and feels good. However in my judgement (limited), its uneffective. I also submit it is counter productive to insuring our security.


Similiar to your Crime problems down there. You keep killing people, yet your crime escalates. Your brightest minds are perplexed by that

[Mike at A+]

[QUOTE=Mike at A+]Similiar to your Crime problems down there.

I think you are confusing Philly with about 60 miles north of Philly. Very little crime in my hood. We're all unstanding middle class and above blue and white collar peeps.

[Mike at A+]

And what's so bad about "Texas tough talk" when it's backed up with some action?

[Mike at A+]

[QUOTE=Suff]

I think you are confusing Philly with about 60 miles north of Philly. Very little crime in my hood. We're all unstanding middle class and above blue and white collar peeps.

upstanding*

[Suff]

And what's so bad about "Texas tough talk" when it's backed up with some action?

Lol... I hear yea Mike. I've been known to Mix it up when required.

Listen... I'm going to take a nice long walk over the Longfellow bridge. I'm living right up that hill on the right. Its a nice walk and it gets me ready for bed. It's about a Mile and a half .walk from my office. I stroll slowly and look at the girls, watch the water and admire my Beautiful city.

The Hub of the Universe, the cradle of Liberty... Boston Massachusetts.

Nice Chatting with you. God Bless America.

http://166.90.180.162/mhd/images/bridges/longfellow.jpg



Nice Bridge huh? You got anything like that in Texarkana? We nicknamed it the Salt and Pepper bridge because it's four stantions look like HUGE salt and pepper shakers!

[Mike at A+]

You got anything like that in Texarkana?

Gee I don't know - I'm in Pennsylvania. Very few bridges where I am but we have other nice things like houses on a minimum of an acre of property. Grass, fresh air, two tracks within an hour drive and Saratoga is only about 4 hours by car with the radar detector on. Oh and the Liberty Bell an hour south.

[Tom]

Do they let Teddy drive over that bridge? :eek:


Got any photos of the airport where the 9-11 death pilots took off from?

Or any photos of Joe K and his hero, Hitler? The REAL Hitler comparison.

http://hnn.us/articles/697.html

[Suff]

Gee I don't know - I'm in Pennsylvania. .

Oh. I'm sorry to hear that. :)

That explains a little about your condidtion. After all, Rick Santorum is the biggest nerd in the Senate.

[JustRalph]

Suff

Why didn't you just post a link to the Democratic Underground (http://www.democraticunderground.com/) website. I see everything you posted today is from over there. I invite everyone to visit DU. It can be very enlightening..............I recommend this post from DU........it is so full of crap it is almost funny. So, you want to talk about the war of words etc......toss this one up in the air and see where it lands. I would post some of it here......but I don't think it complies with the TOS.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/smoogatz/3

The funny thing about this site is that with all the bad mouthing and shit talking, not one original idea is discussed. Amazing..........as bad as the Repubs are........they are still way ahead of the Dems..........

[Mike at A+]

Oh. I'm sorry to hear that. :)

That explains a little about your condidtion. After all, Rick Santorum is the biggest nerd in the Senate.

My "condition" is just fine thank you. WTF is it with you liberals that you are compelled to turn a civil discussion into personal attacks at every opportunity? It's a losing strategy and even your party bigs don't seem to get it.

[Suff]

My "condition" is just fine thank you. WTF is it with you liberals that you are compelled to turn a civil discussion into personal attacks at every opportunity? It's a losing strategy and even your party bigs don't seem to get it.

That's a smiley face next to the sentence .. I was kidding with you.

[Suff]

Suff

[QUOTE]
Why didn't you just post a link to the Democratic Underground (http://www.democraticunderground.com/)website. I see everything you posted today is from over there.


I posted yesterday. But anyway, I only go to DU once every 10 days or so. I get most of my stuff from other sites. Mainly Daily Kos. Matter of fact, Markos Juniga who founded Daily Kos was in Boston for a book signing just two weeks ago and I went.

www.dailykos.com (http://www.dailykos.com/) gets between 600,000 and a million visits a day. More than any MSM publisher. It's very popular. I could go to Free republic and cherry pick a thread that would be off the wall. I did'nt go to your link because I have no reason to. I'm sure its unflattering. However, that is common for the current supporters of the President. It's the only avenue left.


That's me in the front row...and Markos speaking. I'm proud of my affilation with Daily Kos and If I frequented DU, I would feel equally as proud.
http://static.flickr.com/45/152345403_b774b1fa3d.jpg?v=0

I grabbed a Picture of me and Markos after the show

[Tom]

Ralph - thanks for the link.
Now I can lip synch the words to all the Airhead America programs.
Sound like Stephanie (Sister Sleeze from he Rochester days) or Randi (NO)Rhodes(scholar) writes for them.

Talk about hate, venom, and pure ignorance - AA has it all.