Youbet.com Problem

[MONEY]

I don't bet online, because I don't trust any of the online betting corporations. I'm (lucky) to live only a few minutes from Tampa Bay Downs. So when I want to place some bets (which is every day) I just go to the track.
This was posted on another blog today.
YOUBET.com......PLEASE READ - (docicu3)

Sunday I was placing a series of wagers at Hollywood that had over an hour before post. I wagered on a cell phone using touch tone.

Having just under 10 K in the account I was playing $200 exacta's which should have meant $400 a play. All of a sudden the machine says my last bet cannot be taken for insufficient funds.

With over 90 minutes to go prior to post a YOUBET account representative tells me my last wager was for $4400. Obviously I tell him to cancel the wager made a minute ago.

He tells me I cannot because the bet is over $2000 dollars.....I say well obviously the computer must have interpreted $200 exacta box as $2200. Meaning the cell phone "breakup" of signal was interpreted as a double signal as ......2-200 dollar wager

1) I did not make such a wager 2) there was more than ample time to correct such a mistake as any track would at a window 3) with 90 minutes prior to post no odds affecting argument makes sense here......

Please be smart and get any money you have out of YOUBET.com. The supervisor at YOUBET yesterday refused to speak with me while the screening representative from YOUBET gleefully laughed about the whole thing.

[Suff]

What a bitch huh? If it wins, then its a different world. But that'd be asking to much.


Smaller dollar amount but similiar story. At the tote machine last summer at Saratoga I bet a few $10.00 based bets. Then I bet a double with two horses to an all in a 9 horse field going in the 2nd leg. I forgot to change the Dollar amount and it turned out to be a $180.00 ticket. 10/12 to an all.

No Problem, the machines have a cancel feature. Siimply insert the ticket, request a cancel and out will pop a $180.00 voucher. No such luck.

I inserted the ticket, hit cancel and got the message.

"Ticket cannot be canceled at Tote, its over $100.00!

Imagine that. Now its 4 minutes to post, and the lines at the window are 50 deep. I'm scurrying around like a Mouse in the daylight trying to find a $50.00 window with a short line....and I strike out and my horse's run out.

Between my other bets and the mistake $180.00 bet, it basically took about 3/4'rs of the $400 I had brought to play with that day. It ruined my day. I had to chip away with scared money the rest of the day. Scared money don't make money,,,,,,as well all know.


I cursed them bastards... Why the F have a F'n cancel feature if you can't cancel a ticket over a pimp squeek $100 max! Mutha-F'rs.


I feel your pain. It's the double edged curse of the new technology age.

[Ron]

I guess none of those exactas hit. Then they would have been stories of good fortune.

[PaceAdvantage]

YOu know, I deleted a similar post from this docicu3 yesterday, for obvious reasons. I left this one up, but edited it, again for obvious reasons.

It smells a little like bullshit to me. "Screening representitive GLEEFULLY LAUGHED IN THE BACKGROUND???!!!!!??" Give me a break. However, I will conceed this guy is telling the truth, or his version of it, anyway. STILL.....

Calling something criminal, a fraud, or a scam when it is no such thing is irresponsible at best and most likely libelous.

YouBet allows you to cancel wagers up until they go into the gate. If that policy doesn't extend beyond a $2000 wager, well then, that's their policy. My OBVIOUS suggestion is to talk to somebody ABOVE a customer phone rep, like a supervisor, or manager. If that doesn't work, hire a lawyer.

Don't go accusing them of fraud just because you didn't receive the satisfaction you were looking for from a damned CUSTOMER SERVICE REP who is only following their stated policies.

Also, I will relate, once again, my own YouBet tale. Years ago, using YouBet.Com through their old client-based software, I was making wagers on a particular race, but was being told the wagers were not going through. So I kept repeating the wager, hoping it would go through before post time.

Turns out, the wagers I THOUGHT were NOT going through, WERE being ACCEPTED. All 20 someodd of them. I discovered this AFTER the race was over, and after my wagers had lost. I called YouBet, and after a few hours, the money was back in my account.

[Tom]

I never bet by phone anymore, but when I used to, there was a place where the wagers were verbally verified - is than not in force anymore?

[PaceAdvantage]

I never bet by phone anymore, but when I used to, there was a place where the wagers were verbally verified - is than not in force anymore?

That's a good question. I also remember confirmations when betting via phone.

[DeadCrab]

The reason that they don't allow automatic teller machines to cancel large wagers is because money launderers were using that feature to wash their money without putting any of it at risk.

[bigmack]

Turns out, the wagers I THOUGHT were NOT going through, WERE being ACCEPTED. All 20 someodd of them. I discovered this AFTER the race was over, and after my wagers had lost. I called YouBet, and after a few hours, the money was back in my account.
Few years back I had the same experience several times it said "wager not confirmed" so I put it through a couple more times. One time the exacta paid $444 and all three of the wagers went through, which was ok by me.

The other times noteably 3 or so different times I hadn't realized they pulled a race off the grass and they didn't parenthetically have that (off the turf) text. I called after the placing the wager even after the running and they refunded the loot. They ain't so bad there. Don't deal with the regular reps ask for a super and they'll work with ya.

[chickenhead]

The reason that they don't allow automatic teller machines to cancel large wagers is because money launderers were using that feature to wash their money without putting any of it at risk.

That doesn't make any sense to me, all you get is a voucher when you cancel, same as you can buy at any voucher machine in unlimited quantity. I assume it is to keep people from manipulating the tote. If you could cancel large bets easily you could really have some fun at the smaller tracks.

[JustRalph]

That doesn't make any sense to me, all you get is a voucher when you cancel, same as you can buy at any voucher machine in unlimited quantity. I assume it is to keep people from manipulating the tote.

try this scenario. You are laundering money. You get a voucher back out of the machine and it is worth 200 bucks. the next guy you see walk up to the machine with cash in his hand, you offer the voucher to him for 190 bucks. I think you could move them all day long.

There are several other scenarios along the same line.......think about it.

on a grand, you lose 50 bucks.......but your money is clean as a whistle now.

[ryesteve]

try this scenario. You are laundering money. You get a voucher back out of the machine and it is worth 200 bucks. the next guy you see walk up to the machine with cash in his hand, you offer the voucher to him for 190 bucks. I think you could move them all day long.

There are several other scenarios along the same line.......think about it.

on a grand, you lose 50 bucks.......but your money is clean as a whistle now.
Help me out here. First, why would someone need to place a bet, and then cancel it to get the voucher? Why not just buy a voucher in the first place? Secondly, why sell the voucher at a discount? Why not just take it to another window and get $200 for it?

[Ron]

Maybe the money is blue? Ha, ha, who knows....

[chickenhead]

try this scenario. You are laundering money. You get a voucher back out of the machine and it is worth 200 bucks. the next guy you see walk up to the machine with cash in his hand, you offer the voucher to him for 190 bucks. I think you could move them all day long.

There are several other scenarios along the same line.......think about it.

on a grand, you lose 50 bucks.......but your money is clean as a whistle now.

But you start off with a wad of cash, and you end up with a (slightly smaller) wad of cash, neither of which look like legitimate income.

But if you wanted to play with the tote you should basically be able to guarantee overlays of your choosing. Even with $100 tickets you could really wreak havoc at the tiny tracks. I kicked the idea around with some friends last year, may test drive the theory this year during a weekday at one of the Fair meets. Two or three guys can cancel a lot of $100 tickets in the final minute or two.

One thing that would be interesting to see, if you made a no hoper 30-1 ML horse the 2-1 favorite and held him there until just a few minutes to post, do you think he would get MORE money from the crowd or LESS money from the crowd in the Win Pool?

Or conversly, if you held a solid contender at 1-9 when he should be 3-1, and then cancelled all but a small ticket as they entered the gate, what do you think his odds would go up to? Would having him at 1-9 cause him to be overtbet or underbet? Underbet I would hope, but you never know.

It would be an interesting experiment in group psychology, and profitable once it was dialed in.

[DeadCrab]

***************************
But you start off with a wad of cash, and you end up with a (slightly smaller) wad of cash, neither of which look like legitimate income.
**************************

Sometimes, the purpose of money laundering is to exchange traceable cash for clean cash.

Suppose you robbed a bank, or made a big drug sale and had $50,000 in cash. But, you aren't really sure if the serial numbers could be used to catch/convict you. So, you put the suspect cash into auto tellers at a big track, have it spit out a voucher, and get clean cash from a teller.

Nobody will be checking the bills immediately, and with the lax camera surveillence at racetracks, you probably won't get photoed doing it.

This gives a dollar-for-dollar exchange, and yes, the FBI knows about this scheme.

[chickenhead]

***************************
But you start off with a wad of cash, and you end up with a (slightly smaller) wad of cash, neither of which look like legitimate income.
**************************

Sometimes, the purpose of money laundering is to exchange traceable cash for clean cash.

Suppose you robbed a bank, or made a big drug sale and had $50,000 in cash. But, you aren't really sure if the serial numbers could be used to catch/convict you. So, you put the suspect cash into auto tellers at a big track, have it spit out a voucher, and get clean cash from a teller.

Nobody will be checking the bills immediately, and with the lax camera surveillence at racetracks, you probably won't get photoed doing it.

This gives a dollar-for-dollar exchange, and yes, the FBI knows about this scheme.

Fair enough. If the point is literally to just have different dollars, this would work.

The problem that is usually trying to be solved when it comes to laundering has nothing to do with serial numbers, it has to do with creating a concrete, plausible, legal origin, for which this does nothing.

[DeadCrab]

*****************************
Fair enough. If the point is literally to just have different dollars, this would work.

The problem that is usually trying to be solved when it comes to laundering has nothing to do with serial numbers, it has to do with creating a concrete, plausible, legal origin, for which this does nothing.
********************************************

Not always. The NYRA mutual clerks who got busted for laundering were just exchanging good cash for bad. The cops that caught them told them it was drug money and they needed untraceable bills. So, there is a market for that sort of exchange.