Barbaro Update: Pimlico Officials Point Finger At Brother Derek?

[PaceAdvantage]

Barbaro Update: Pimlico Officials Point Finger At Brother Derek? (http://tcm.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=33786)
There have been numerous theories on why the injury occurred, but it is all speculation. The latest theory comes from Pimlico Race Course officials who watched the race frame by frame and strongly believe Barbaro's right hind leg was struck by Brother Derek just before the colt's misstep. Blood-Horse (http://tcm.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=33786)


Sounds like the Zapruder film to me....either that, or that Seinfeld episode, with Keith Hernandez -- "The Boyfriend"

[sjk]

The first paragraph is hard for me to swallow. I, for one, will never forget Ruffian.

Sad to say I see worse breakdowns all the time. What about that 5 horse at AP yesterday. Thankfully Barbaro never even went down and his recovery is looking very good.

[Steve 'StatMan']

That one at AP was sad. Coming out of the far turn near the top of the stretch, where all the families with their kids were for the Memorial Day festivities. For the casual race fans, they may not have seen a horse race since Barbaro & the Preakness on TV, and in the Memorial Day Opener, a fatal breakdown occured.

Read Eddie Perez got kicked in the chest, but thankfully he must have been wearing a safety vest, as he was able to eventually get up and get in the ambulance, and to the hospital for tests.

One last thought on breakdowns and the crowd. On Preakness Day at AP, those that stayed for the last live race which directly followed Barbaro's breakdown also saw the favorite also break down coming out of the turn.

Tough couple of 'Racing Holidays' here at AP this month.

[PaceAdvantage]

After watching the replay much more closely, I can't really see how Brother Derek is to blame here. If anything, it looks like Greeley's Legacy is the one who was closest to Barbaro right before he hurt himself, but even then, it's tough to come to any reasonable conclusion on who, if anyone, is to blame.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Wasn't Brother Derek's rider in the Preakness Alex Solis, the jockey who just got rejected for the Hall Of Fame?

[bigmack]

When first learning of the "frame by frame" review of the tape and the reason for B's break down I had the feeling of "Ahaa".

Now that it's up for review and frames will be reviewed into frames and folk will pontificate on how or why it happened, the end result is the same.

He's in a stable that's 14 x 14. He's well taken care of. He's not out of the blue entirely. He was injured somehow.

Over review and speculation may very well supersede the simplicity of the story.

He never lost a race. And he'll never have another race to show that he could win or loose anymore. Some feel "what's the big deal", others "he could have been one of the all time greats".

It's a disparate world. We've all got our opine.

And so it goes........

[TravisVOX]

I went frame-by-frame on my digital recorder and you can clearly see the step that does it. Barbaro actually comes down a little more "sideways" and when his leg came up you could see it was out of place.

Brother Derek nonsense is just that...nonsense.

[oddswizard]

Prior to the Preakness I felt that neither Barbaro nor Brother Derek would win. I thought the logical winner would be Bernardino. However, I did not bet the race. I felt that the training and running pattern of Barbaro was strange. Barbaro's trainer stated that he wanted a fresh horse in the Triple Crown races so he raced him sparingly (8 weeks off & 5 weeks off) up to the Derby.
There is a logical reason for this type of training a horse. The reason most trainers in the past have done this is simple. They are nursing an injured horse up to the race in the hope that they will make to course & win a purse without breaking down. I have seen this many times in the past. Prior to the Preakness the trainer was interviewed and he was not confident in his chances in the Preakness. I thought the interview was very revealing. How could you not be confident after his sensational Derby win. Do I think this theory was correct? We will never know the answer. After all, it is just a theory.

Here is something that is a fact. The Pimlico officials first stated that their vet checked out Barbaro after his starting gate problem. Now that are blaming Brother Derek. Looks like they are lawsuit shy and are covering their bases.

[bigmack]

Solis, however, refuted Pimlico's claim. "There's no way he could have struck Barbaro; I would have felt it," Solis said May 30. "We were close behind him, but not that close. Getting that close to him and going that speed, if I had struck him I would have gone down. It was just one of those things that happened. I could hear his leg snap, and thank God I had enough space and time to get out of there. Luckily I wasn't that close to him and I was able to react quickly. Horses are like any other athlete. You can have a basketball player going for a rebound and he twists or breaks his leg. And you've got skiiers going over jumps and breaking bones. It happens."

[PaceAdvantage]

Solis, however, refuted Pimlico's claim. "There's no way he could have struck Barbaro; I would have felt it," Solis said May 30. "We were close behind him, but not that close. Getting that close to him and going that speed, if I had struck him I would have gone down.

That's not necessarily true.

[PaceAdvantage]

There is a logical reason for this type of training a horse. The reason most trainers in the past have done this is simple. They are nursing an injured horse up to the race in the hope that they will make to course & win a purse without breaking down. I have seen this many times in the past.

Doesn't mean squat. Do you send out a horse you are "nursing" the morning of the Kentucky Derby? No, you don't.

Do you work out a horse between the Derby and Preakness, if you are nursing him? No, you do not.

BD and SNS did not work out between the Derby and Preakness, yet Barbaro did....interesting....

[bigmack]

http://news.mywebpal.com/news_tool_v2.cfm?pnpID=574&NewsID=722813&CategoryID=8012&show=localnews&om=1

[Observer]

Prior to the Preakness I felt that neither Barbaro nor Brother Derek would win. I thought the logical winner would be Bernardino. However, I did not bet the race. I felt that the training and running pattern of Barbaro was strange. Barbaro's trainer stated that he wanted a fresh horse in the Triple Crown races so he raced him sparingly (8 weeks off & 5 weeks off) up to the Derby.
There is a logical reason for this type of training a horse. The reason most trainers in the past have done this is simple. They are nursing an injured horse up to the race in the hope that they will make to course & win a purse without breaking down. I have seen this many times in the past. Prior to the Preakness the trainer was interviewed and he was not confident in his chances in the Preakness. I thought the interview was very revealing. How could you not be confident after his sensational Derby win. Do I think this theory was correct? We will never know the answer. After all, it is just a theory.

Here is something that is a fact. The Pimlico officials first stated that their vet checked out Barbaro after his starting gate problem. Now that are blaming Brother Derek. Looks like they are lawsuit shy and are covering their bases.

I've been so saddened by the breakdown of Barbaro that I have taken a few steps back from racing, which includes commenting on this board. However the above quote sickens me so much, that I just can't ignore it.

Accusations get thrown around in this game at an unreal rate. Some trainer is doing well, some horse is doing well .. it's got to be drugs. Here, we have a trainer who had his own approach to the Triple Crown .. bring a fresh horse in, space his races, give him time .. and now all of a sudden it was because the horse was being "nursed along." Why is it okay for trainers to skip top races with an eye on the Breeders' Cup, yet to be fresh for the Triple Crown means there is something wrong with the horse????

Michael Matz came to the racing game full time just a mere six years ago. But make no mistake, his brief time in the racing world does not mean he is not a capable horseman. Far from it .. he is a master horseman.

Take a moment and really listen and watch as he speaks, in ANY interview. The man is polite as can be, remembers to thank all his staff at times others NEVER would and truely seemed in awe of the horse he was training. Watch his concern for the horse in the frenzied Derby winner's circle .. to a point of mild awkwardness between concerned trainer and elated jockey as they share a celebratory hug. Never has Matz come across as a someone who is boastful or who brags, which in some minds I guess can translate to a display of "lack of confidence."

Racing is a difficult sport, where anything can happen. To ignore that is just plain arrogant and even ignorant.

Just because someone does something different, doesn't mean there is a hidden agenda.

[CryingForTheHorses]

I've been so saddened by the breakdown of Barbaro that I have taken a few steps back from racing, which includes commenting on this board. However the above quote sickens me so much, that I just can't ignore it.

Accusations get thrown around in this game at an unreal rate. Some trainer is doing well, some horse is doing well .. it's got to be drugs. Here, we have a trainer who had his own approach to the Triple Crown .. bring a fresh horse in, space his races, give him time .. and now all of a sudden it was because the horse was being "nursed along." Why is it okay for trainers to skip top races with an eye on the Breeders' Cup, yet to be fresh for the Triple Crown means there is something wrong with the horse????

Michael Matz came to the racing game full time just a mere six years ago. But make no mistake, his brief time in the racing world does not mean he is not a capable horseman. Far from it .. he is a master horseman.

Take a moment and really listen and watch as he speaks, in ANY interview. The man is polite as can be, remembers to thank all his staff at times others NEVER would and truely seemed in awe of the horse he was training. Watch his concern for the horse in the frenzied Derby winner's circle .. to a point of mild awkwardness between concerned trainer and elated jockey as they share a celebratory hug. Never has Matz come across as a someone who is boastful or who brags, which in some minds I guess can translate to a display of "lack of confidence."

Racing is a difficult sport, where anything can happen. To ignore that is just plain arrogant and even ignorant.

Just because someone does something different, doesn't mean there is a hidden agenda.


I agree with you.I was going to write about the same post. I dont have to now that you have said it better then I could have.
Its very sad about this horse, All the hopes and dreams shattered in the blink of a eye. I just dont understand why people seem to think up so many things to put a BIGGER black mark on racing.
PS. Dont give up ona sport you dearly love...WE need you!!

[alysheba88]

This whole Barbara situation has gotten completely ridiculous now. Yeah I know if I dont like it I dont have to read. But like to think I should have the chance to comment if I want as well.

Basically pulling out the Zupruder film now looking to blame someone- anyone for what happened. Soon we will hear how its Nick Zito's fault somehow. The horse took a bad step and got hurt real bad. Hopefully he will recover. Looks good so far. Can understand people being upset and concerned. But do not understand what can only be called an obsession in looking for something, anything to blame for what happened.

[Suff]

This whole Barbara situation has gotten completely ridiculous now. Yeah I know if I dont like it I dont have to read. But like to think I should have the chance to comment if I want as well.

Basically pulling out the Zupruder film now looking to blame someone- anyone for what happened. Soon we will hear how its Nick Zito's fault somehow. The horse took a bad step and got hurt real bad. Hopefully he will recover. Looks good so far. Can understand people being upset and concerned. But do not understand what can only be called an obsession in looking for something, anything to blame for what happened.

All the WWW sites relating to Horse Racing are experincing HUGE jumps in Traffic.

The WWW site for the Vet Hosptial he went to has created a whole Barbaro section. Its unbelievable what they've done to that site since I first visited it the night he went there. Its Barbaro central!!:lol:

I suppose his 15 minutes is almost up. But the story grabbed middle america and with that comes all the unavailing stories.

[alysheba88]

I guess I am really at a loss to understand it all.

Have been a horse racing bettor and fan for 20 years. Have gotten attached to certain horses-although must admit less now than before. When Go for Wand broke down it was a really really sad day. Loved that filly. Have seen other horses I liked hurt, and others didnt feel much one way or the other from a fan perspective hurt. Barbaro falls in to the latter. I mean yes like everyone I hope he is okay and from all accounts he has a good chance. But at this point I am not looking at him much different than any other animal that gets hurt. Not saying I am right or wrong just the way I feel. I guess its because he won the Derby and the whole national TV thing that its getting so much play- but that doesnt explain the reaction from even hardened horse players. I just dont know what it is. I mean the same fans who dont think much of a horse breaking down in the 5th at Penn National are practically throwing their arms to the heavens crying "why god why". Most fans couldnt have picked Barbaro out of hat before Derby. Its not like he has some storied history- a long legacy of races. I mean I wasnt a big fan of Cigar but definitely would have understood such reaction from fans if he broke down in say the BC.

[Suff]

When Go for Wand broke down it was a really really sad day. Loved that filly..

Tom Durkin did an on-line chat with Bloodhorse today. As you know, he's called 10's of thousands race's at more than 50 race tracks.

One the particpants asked him what was the toughest race to call.

He responded

The 26 horse Arc De Triumph is a tough race to call.

But he added.

The hardest race I ever called was the 1990 Breeders Cup Mile.



That was the race after Go for Wand's.

[alysheba88]

The irony is he gave a great call. And it was a great great story. Lester Piggot closing from the clouds with Royal Academy. You could hear, literally, the genuine relief in Durkin's voice that something very nice had happened

[oddswizard]

Some of you on this format have forgotten the title of my article on Barbaro. It was a THEORY. I was not pointing out a fact. However, trainers do train horses with injuries and nurse them along. This is why many handicapping experts point out the folly of betting on horses that do not race often. Recency is a big part of handicapping.
I would like to point out that prior to the Kentucky Derby Gary Stevens stated "In all of my experience I have never seen a horse hit the ground harder than Barbaro. He may be a great horse but he won't last long. Barbaro has a stride made for the turf-not the dirt. His hard hitting stride & high knee action is made to order for the turf". You may also recall that the trainer stated "I would like to take Barbaro to Europe and compete in the major turf races."
Personally I think that Barbaro just took a bad step and we all lost a great horse.

[PaceAdvantage]

I would like to point out that prior to the Kentucky Derby Gary Stevens stated "In all of my experience I have never seen a horse hit the ground harder than Barbaro. He may be a great horse but he won't last long. Barbaro has a stride made for the turf-not the dirt. His hard hitting stride & high knee action is made to order for the turf".

Really? Where did Stevens state this? I have a hard time believing he said this because it's not all that accurate, IMO. Barbaro's knee action is a tad high, but not all that out of the norm. Nothing compared to a horse like Skip Away....

Was I dreaming when I heard many in the industry complementing the beauty of Barbaro's stride right before the Derby?

How can there be two such opposing viewpoints of the same animal?

[oddswizard]

Gary Stevens was one of three moderators on the pre-derby morning shows on ESPN. They showed Barbaro in a workout & pointed out how hard his hoofs hit the ground. They also pointed out that Barbaro was a natural on the Turf. Mind you, this was prior to the Derby.

[PaceAdvantage]

That's very weird, because I swear I was watching a pre-Derby ESPN telecast (or perhaps it was the actual Derby telecast, I can't recall exactly) where the commentators were saying various astute horsemen that they talked to were very impressed by Barbaro's stride.

Now that I think about it, it may have been the POST DERBY ESPN wrap up show.....and it might have been Kenny Mayne who was talking about the horsemen he had talked to on the backstretch during Derby week....

In any event, the thing that struck me about that show was the comments on how magnificent Barbaro's stride was....

I personally know of one horseman who also didn't think Barbaro hit the ground very hard, despite his slightly higher than usual knee action.