Who ARE these guys?

[andicap]

I love reading handicapping catalogs or surfing online through handicapping directories like letitride.com or Cindy Pierson's site at about.dom

My big question: Who the hell are these people writing these books? Who the hell is Sal Sinatra and why should I buy a book from him? Who is Kenneth Lempenau or Al Bozzi and who is giving these people their money?

I know Clint Tracy is really David Powers but why should I buy stuff from Powers. If he's so good why isn't William Grimes writing about him instead of Ernest Dahlmann?

Now it might do as much good giving these people your money as it is giving it to Quinn, Mitchell, Litfin et al.
But that's another subject.

andicap.

[Dave Schwartz]

Andy,

Clint Tracy is David Powers?

[andicap]

That's what I always heard. I stand corrected if that's not the case and I apologize.


andicap

[Jake]

andicap,

I would strongly recommend reading either of Sal Sinatra's books. Better than Liftin's stuff in my opinion.
This guy's a player.
Lempenenau is another long time player in Nevada who uses a number of tote methods and some Beyer patterns; it's worth reading, whether you believe it's valid or not. Especially interesting these days with the whale sightings and the all the Internet totes.

There's also a discussion of the Worth Pops and Tips on another thread. These tested out badly a few years ago, and unless they have been rewritten, are likely to test out badly again. Same goes for the Ray Taulbot's Pace Calculator as well. Larry was right on the money with his comments; tested this out on any decent sample and it will show a negative set of numbers, despite Sartin's statements to the contrary. Save your money for lottery tickets.

As far as Dahlmann being the real deal, I think that everyone should re-read the article and his answers to the posted queries. This guy doesn't care about ROI because apparently he has a a special business deal with the casino (which he doesn't want to discuss). If you figure that in, Dahlmann looks like a breakeven handicapper at best. I suspect there are a number of handicappers on this board that would beat Dahlmann hands down in any given year, if they had both his bankroll and his "non-rebate" deal. Still, he's gotten to where he is by being very canny, and is beating a very tough game. Frankly, I think it's great to see and hear about, however he chooses to present his success. Who wouldn't love to have his leverage? I hope he ends up owning the whole casino, and gives every handicapper in the joint their own private office.

[Jake]

That's the case. He worked at Today's Racing Digest before starting RPM and thought it might avoid any problems. Suppose it does make all those good quotes by Powers for his Clint Tracy stuff methods less convincing, doesn't it?

Originally posted by Dave Schwartz
Andy,

Clint Tracy is David Powers?

[andicap]

In that case I retract my apology.

Thanks, Jake.

[andicap]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jake
[B]andicap,

I would strongly recommend reading either of Sal Sinatra's books. Better than Liftin's stuff in my opinion.
This guy's a player.


There's a Sal Sinatra who's director of racing at Philly Park. Same one?

Andicap

[Tom]

Sal sinatra wrote some things on pace and speed figures and he was a presenter at at least one Sartin seminar at Saratoga. Had some different ideas and might be interesting to you if you are into figures and pace. Ken Lampenaue did some stufies on tote boards and some tings using Beyer numbers-good stuff on form cycles-I have them and they are simply typed pages, no frills (I like that-focus on the content, not the package).
I found his form cycle stuff useful in conjunction with Litfins's writings on figure patterns.
Andy himself was interested in the material and he can be heards talking to Ken during a tape of his speed figure session a couple of Handicapping Expos ago.
Tom

[Jake]

Pretty sure it is. I didn't realized he had taken or already had that position with Philly Phonebet. He had tried a pilot website for awhile, similiar to a cross between YouBet and Bris tote board, but that was from a New Jersey base only last year. That was closed down for whatever reasons. Perhaps that effort lead to this job with Philly PhoneBet. More than that, I'm in the dark.

[andicap]

Originally posted by Tom
Sal sinatra wrote some things on pace and speed figures and he was a presenter at at least one Sartin seminar at Saratoga. Had some different ideas and might be interesting to you if you are into figures and pace. Ken Lampenaue did some stufies on tote boards and some tings using Beyer numbers-good stuff on form cycles-I have them and they are simply typed pages, no frills (I like that-focus on the content, not the package).
I found his form cycle stuff useful in conjunction with Litfins's writings on figure patterns.
Andy himself was interested in the material and he can be heards talking to Ken during a tape of his speed figure session a couple of Handicapping Expos ago.
Tom


The whole question with this stuff of course, as we have been talking about, is:
Is this stuff dated? If it worked 10-20 years ago, does it still work?

[Jake]

I guess it depends what you're looking for here. The Sinatra books are similiar to the Cramer books, where Cramer does a mini-case study to illustrate some point. Sinatra has neither the writing style nor the sense of humor to match Cramer, but he frames his points nicely and offers some cogent advice. Because of that, the stuff holds up. You have to read him in small doses and think about what he is saying; no fluff or nonsense.

Lempenenau is more niche oriented. As Tom indicated, brief and to the point. The tote stuff might have aged with everything going on, but he has plenty of new stuff out there as well. As I mentioned before, not sure his tote advice was ever valid, but worth reading nevertheless. And, never tried testing the Beyer/form guidelines, because I don't use Beyer numbers, but it's along the lines of the Raggies concepts.






Originally posted by andicap



The whole question with this stuff of course, as we have been talking about, is:
Is this stuff dated? If it worked 10-20 years ago, does it still work?

[JimG]

Andicap:


I wouldn't be surprised if all those people you named in your original post were the same person <g>.


Jim


PS: Powers (who is a genuinely nice guy) and Tracy (who also is a genuinely nice guy) are the same person.

[Rick Ransom]

RPM stuff is interesting if you like to read a lot. I don't think you'll find any winning systems/methods, but it's a good way to collect a lot of different ideas. Sometimes it gets you started thinking in a different way and that might lead to a new idea of your own.

[andicap]

Originally posted by Jake
Pretty sure it is. I didn't realized he had taken or already had that position with Philly Phonebet. He had tried a pilot website for awhile, similiar to a cross between YouBet and Bris tote board, but that was from a New Jersey base only last year. That was closed down for whatever reasons. Perhaps that effort lead to this job with Philly PhoneBet. More than that, I'm in the dark.


I emailed Sal Sinatra at Philly Park. It's not the same one. Said he gets it all the time

andicap

[Jake]

Good information. Surprised there's two with the same name in the same general area. Also, it suggests that there are at least some players who have read the Sinatra books.

Originally posted by andicap



I emailed Sal Sinatra at Philly Park. It's not the same one. Said he gets it all the time

andicap