The american way $$$$$$$$$$

[Hank]

The tragic event in the Preakness,is simply a direct result of the PROFIT at all cost addtiude of the american racing an breeding industry.The combined effects of Medication which allows unsound animals to race,breeding to Talented but unsound sires, the [raise a native-mr prospector] line comes quickly to mind,and the foolish emphasis on 2 and 3 year old races,is a prescription for breakdowns.And what is the major concern? That Barbaro be SAVED for BREEDING.:ThmbDown:

[Richie]

Hank

In this particular case the owners could care less about the breeding. Also, I read Barbaro most likely wouldn't be of any value even if saved. He would have trouble mounting the mares, the right leg would never be strong enough to handle his weight.

[Two Bucks To Win]

We as horseplayers can whine and complain till the cows come home about "juice trainers" and those (including breeders) who pump horses full of powerful and dangerous steroids with no thought of the long-term effects on their bodies. I have not bet on a single race since the Preakness and don't know when I will do so again, because as of right now I have that nagging thought that as long as I support the pools with my money then in some way I am complicit and that WE ARE ALL GUILTY of supporting the greed which enables those in charge to continue to allow this situation to fester. I love this sport but I do not love what the greediest elements within it do to win a race or a bet. Maybe if more bettors felt that way and voted with their wallets then racing would be FORCED to come to grips with this problem rather than to keep pretending that nothing's wrong, or as Frank Stronach said "Vat eez horse raceeeng".

[dccprez]

*sigh*

You know it's frustrating to read posts wherein the Poster makes these "absolute" statements that we're supposed to be bullied into accepting as "factual".

Hank baby, can you PROVE that the Barbaro injury was a "DIRECT" (emphasis added) result of "PROFIT"? I mean, isn't it at least possible that it was a "direct result" of a preexisting condition? Or unfortunate luck?

Now to a question that I don't know the answer to; Is their an actual study that proves that the Raise-a-Native/Mr. Prospector line is genuinely unsound? If so, why have so many intelligent, educated, well meant people in the breeding industry patronized this line for so long? These people have spent huge money breeding this route...

Medication and breeding for speed are quite possibly factors in the (seeming) reduction in soundness of the breed in general. But let's not go off all half-cocked.

[JustRalph]

Hank

In this particular case the owners could care less about the breeding. Also, I read Barbaro most likely wouldn't be of any value even if saved. He would have trouble mounting the mares, the right leg would never be strong enough to handle his weight.

Man, under that criteria I would be in real trouble............ :lol:

[46zilzal]

Hank

In this particular case the owners could care less about the breeding. Also, I read Barbaro most likely wouldn't be of any value even if saved. He would have trouble mounting the mares, the right leg would never be strong enough to handle his weight.
Saratoga Six had the same KIND, however not as extensive, an injury and he bred lots of offspring.

[Hank]

When did stating an opinion equate to bullieing? Halfcocked?My post was a brief outline of a big problem that would require much more time than I have to devote to it.The funny thing about it is that you make a post challenging my post and then reveal in your post that you don't know ANYTHING about the subject matter.Total greenhorns Know ,raise a native broke down at age 2 and begets quick precocious types prone to early exits from racing.

[brdman12]

I dont have much to say on this board but please realize we can say the same things for all sports. They can all be fixed, over medicated, the ahtletes pushed past their ability to avoid injury, etc.. But horses love to run, love to train, and love the attention. Its easy to find fault, buts its a beautiful sport. Enjoy it.

[Red Knave]

The tragic event in the Preakness,is simply a direct result of the PROFIT at all cost addtiude of the american racing an breeding industry ... Medication which allows unsound animals to race,breeding to Talented but unsound sires ... and the foolish emphasis on 2 and 3 year old races,is a prescription for breakdowns.And what is the major concern? That Barbaro be SAVED for BREEDING.:ThmbDown:
Geez, no need to get so emotional.
The world that I live in revolves around profit. You and I bet races for profit (hopefully), racetracks hold meets for profit, breeders breed for profit, trainers train for profit etc. There are people and organizations who have other reasons but the main reason is money. That's not a bad thing. And, sure, it gets taken to extremes on both ends.
I don't understand why you have a problem with trying to save the horse for breeding. Would it be better to say we hope to save him for kiddies to ride or to butcher him for the BBQ?

[NEhandicapper]

I always feel really bad when a horse breaks down, especially when the injury results in euthanasia. Being from Philadelphia, Barbaro’s injury hit harder. Sadly, horses breakdown very frequently. I read today that on average, 1.6 to 2.2 horses suffer a catastrophic breakdown for every 1000 horses that start.

Interestingly, the year before Turfway Park installed the Polytrack, they had 24 breakdowns resulting in euthanasia. Last meet there were only three. I guest this is why California is trying to pass a mandate requiring tracks to install Polytrack

[dccprez]

When did stating an opinion equate to bullieing? Halfcocked?My post was a brief outline of a big problem that would require much more time than I have to devote to it.The funny thing about it is that you make a post challenging my post and then reveal in your post that you don't know ANYTHING about the subject matter.Total greenhorns Know ,raise a native broke down at age 2 and begets quick precocious types prone to early exits from racing.

Ok...
Maybe "bullieing [sic]" was an overstatement. I defer.

You did say "direct result" and that is what I challenged. You don't have any empirical information that Barbaro's injury was a "direct result" of anything.

As for not knowing "ANYTHING" about the sbject matter, you'll kindly note that I stated UP FRONT that I was asking a question because I wasn't aware of any specific evidence that proved the RAN-MrP line as patently "unsound". That's honesty, not "funny". Your "reply" is slightly more informative in that you offer up the history lesson (RAN broke down as a two year old) and that the line "...begets precocious types prone to early exits from racing." (and even a backhanded insult - "even greenhorns"). But I still don't know if the RAN observation is a reflection of fact or just conjecture? Or if it's based on the fact that a number of RAN line "big-name" horses have been injured or retired early? Or if this is based on a cross comparison of ALL (big-name/little-known) RAN line horses that have hit the track? Etc, etc., etc.

I'm not so certain that all "greehorns" are aware of the fate of RAN and prodigy. I didn't know it but I do know plenty about the sport (don't let the low-post total throw you off - I just recently found this site). So if I am a "greenhorn" (not so bad of a moniker, really) then so be it.

The "opinion" reads more like a "rant". So when you say "DIRECT result" it warrants the questions "says who" and/or "could you prove that".

[Hank]

Well your right about one thing it was somewhat of a rant,BUT sometimes a rant can be good.Now of course a singular event is ancedotal and PROVES nothing.But look at the BIG picture the breeding of performance animals is supposed to be done for one reason and one reason only to IMPROVE the breed.When it becomes a strictly commerical enterprise compromises that should not be made invariable are made.Their is allways a price to be paid for compromise and we the racing fans are paying it.I mean look around is the breed IMPROVING?Do not make me laugh.The weight carried and racing schedule of a Kelso ,Dr Fager, Buckpasser or Round table would kill these fragile creatures.

[xfile]

Is being American and having money a bad thing??? You sound like someone who follows Osama Bin Jerkoff. Pardon my French. :cool:

[Hank]

Like that should be done when looking a man in the eye.Kinda makes you look like a sissy boy saying it from afar.

[Ron]

Like that should be done when looking a man in the eye.Kinda makes you look like a sissy boy saying it from afar.

You're the one that first posted a grammatically incorrect and factually inaccurate attack on racing.

[linrom1]

*sigh*

You know it's frustrating to read posts wherein the Poster makes these "absolute" statements that we're supposed to be bullied into accepting as "factual".

Hank baby, can you PROVE that the Barbaro injury was a "DIRECT" (emphasis added) result of "PROFIT"? I mean, isn't it at least possible that it was a "direct result" of a preexisting condition? Or unfortunate luck?

Now to a question that I don't know the answer to; Is their an actual study that proves that the Raise-a-Native/Mr. Prospector line is genuinely unsound? If so, why have so many intelligent, educated, well meant people in the breeding industry patronized this line for so long? These people have spent huge money breeding this route...

Medication and breeding for speed are quite possibly factors in the (seeming) reduction in soundness of the breed in general. But let's not go off all half-cocked.

The unsoundness of Mr. Prospector(Raise a Native) lineage has been discussed for over a decade in most breeding publications. Now lets consider the implication of breeding to yet another unsound horse like Barbaro?

[xfile]

Like that should be done when looking a man in the eye.Kinda makes you look like a sissy boy saying it from afar.

Listen "Yank". You ain't making a lot of friends on this board in the short time you've been here. I rate your over/under of being kicked off at 10 days and I'll take the under. You should be familiar with stuff that is "short" and being "under". :ThmbDown: Pretend that is a middle finger. :cool:

[Hank]

I make a post giving my opinion with respect to the mistakes made by the AMERICAN [racing and breeding industry] and the next thing you know I'm a Bin laden supporter:D[ I spent 24 years in armed forces served in the 1st gulf war] that will soon be banned from the board.This form of communication is new to me and I see that post will be interpeted by people with wildly different levels of insight and knowledge.Then I kindly point out that personal insults are best done in person and not from the safety of a key board so as to not make one appear chicken $hit and then the devastating news that I'm not making friends and get fliped off.:lol:

[Two Bucks To Win]

It is apparent that there are too many people who have a vested interest in the status-quo and in covering up the dirty laundry, so they use personal insults to sweep the debate under the rug and to shut up those who see the real problem here.

[Tom]

It is apparent that there are too many people who have a vested interest in the status-quo and in covering up the dirty laundry, so they use personal insults to sweep the debate under the rug and to shut up those who see the real problem here.

I think debate doens't mean what you think it means - I think you meant to say rant.

[dccprez]

...Now of course a singular event is ancedotal and PROVES nothing.But look at the BIG picture the breeding of performance animals is supposed to be done for one reason and one reason only to IMPROVE the breed.When it becomes a strictly commerical enterprise compromises that should not be made invariable are made.Their is allways a price to be paid for compromise and we the racing fans are paying it.I mean look around is the breed IMPROVING?Do not make me laugh.The weight carried and racing schedule of a Kelso ,Dr Fager, Buckpasser or Round table would kill these fragile creatures.

Very solid points. Clearly the breed appears to have been "watered down" so to speak.

And there's no question that the last twenty years hasn't come close to the era of the greats with Kelso, Dr. Fager (a personal favorite), Buckpasser (another) et. al.

(In the ineterest of full disclosure please note that I didn't say, or make any suggestion that the breed was "improving".)

As for the "Bin Laden" stuff - IMHO that's just bull-s**t. You didn't deserve that. This was merely a spirited discussion, never a personal attack.

[Two Bucks To Win]

I know that you don't want to read these "rants" and would prefer to bury your head in the sand rather than to examine your own small measure of guilt. Well I'm just about done "ranting" about the issue because quite frankly no one wants to hear it; they would rather comfort themselves with asinine and useless suggestions like shortening races or respacing the Triple Crown or not running 2 year olds. Band aids slapped onto the problem in the hope that the gullible public will buy it. Well all I can say is that it will happen again, as long as the real problem is not addressed. When it does you will see more useless/asinine solutions proposed, wash rinse repeat. When those who strive to protect the horse are said to "despise racing" by those who strive to cover up the real problem, because there is too much money greed in doing so, then it becomes a sport that no decent human being should want to be a part of, nothing more than a cock-fight.

[chickenhead]

Well I'm just about done "ranting" about the issue because quite frankly no one wants to hear it; .

Have you ever bothered to read the HUNDREDS of threads talking about the drug problem in racing? Or the HUNDREDS of threads dealing with the breeding issues? There was discussion before last week you know, before last month when you decided to grace the board with your presence.

You are preaching to the choir here, and its the holier than thou attitude that is pissing people off, not the content. You are making a whole lot of assumptons about who you are talking to.

[Hank]

I thought my last post would make clear that I was basicly blowing the whole thing off as a missunderstanding caused by you not understanding my post.[I should have known better]You somehow came up with[ its bad to be an american and to have money] did you actually read the post?Do I want it in person ?Please spare me. :D

[dccprez]

I know that you don't want to read these "rants"

HEY! Finally you've figured it out!


...and would prefer to bury your head in the sand rather than to examine your own small measure of guilt.

What "guilt"??? Quite possibly the most foolish remark in the whole "rant".


...Well I'm just about done "ranting" about the issue because quite frankly no one wants to hear it;

Thank goodness.


...they would rather comfort themselves with asinine and useless suggestions like shortening races or respacing the Triple Crown or not running 2 year olds. Band aids slapped onto the problem in the hope that the gullible public will buy it.

*sighs* He just doesn't get it. Check out the countless posts wherein everyone agrees that there is a drug problem, etc.


...no decent human being should want to be a part of, nothing more than a cock-fight.

Ok, that's just down right insulting to every decent, well intentioned horse-player. Listen "Two", you don't know what our individual opinions are nor do you have any idea of the content-of-our-character(s) - you seem to think that if you rant and rave and say things with enough emphasis that everyone who doesn't drink your Kool-aid is a lesser person for being involved in horse racing.

If you hate the sport and think so little of the people who participate then DON'T PLAY (and please, I'm begging you, don't POST - at least not the same droning, repetetive, carbon-copy of a rant over and over and over again!).

[Tom]

Hey - duece-bucks - who do ya like in the 3rd at Belmont? :rolleyes:

[Two Bucks To Win]

Have you ever bothered to read the HUNDREDS of threads talking about the drug problem in racing?

I hear a lot of whining by the degenerates about drugged horses when they lose a bet, but the furor usually dies down by post time for the next race. People love to use drugs as an excuse to justify losing a bet (rather than their own shitty handicapping) but no one mentions drugs as the cause of horses breaking down or dying.

[Two Bucks To Win]

Hey - duece-bucks - who do ya like in the 3rd at Belmont? Bet on the horse breaking from the outside post.

[chickenhead]

I hear a lot of whining by the degenerates about drugged horses when they lose a bet, but the furor usually dies down by post time for the next race. People love to use drugs as an excuse to justify losing a bet (rather than their own shitty handicapping) but no one mentions drugs as the cause of horses breaking down or dying.

There are literally hundreds of posts, I grabbed a few. I'm not going to waste anymore time with someone who is so obviously wrong, but I just wanted to give you a glimpse of how wrong you are:

Wiley 1-30-2006

I understand the economics of the game as the reason for 2 and 3 year olds racing but what if you made the norm to take only 5 year olds to the races instead of rushing the process as now and to slowly develop them into racehorses, would this decrease the number of immature injuries, bucked shins for example, less need for medications due to less injuries, maybe less Lasix less respiratory inflamation, and would horses be able to race longer and more often? It might put a hamper on the breeding industry for a few years until horses come of age but the way I see it the breed has been in decline, IMHO, over the last 20 years in North America so if it is overall good for racing and the horses so what.

Tom 9-4-2005

I remeber the worries expressed when lasix and bute were first being allowed on race day. The breed would be diminished by allowing weak horses to pass on their genes, we would start to have unsound horses, many champions would not race beyond thier 3yo seasons, we might even experience short fields.
Phewww! Glad THAT didn't happen.

Toetoe 8-15-2005

My worry for the future of racing: if they used Lasix, etc. 150 years ago, would we even have an organized sport today? Didn't it take years of good breeding, drug-free care and plenty of R&R to establish the breed? I know about the financial hardship of the majority of owners and trainers, but isn't the sport itself worth saving irrespective of any economic imperatives?

DJofSD 3-24-2005

I would be interested in hearing about how long term drug use affects the genetic make-up of the breeding stock.

I believe all you have to do is look at the use of LASIX.

I would speculate that more horses bleed now than 100 or even just 50 years ago. Does any one know of any studies done along these lines?

ToteMaster 2-14-2005

I’m not a biologist or geneticist, but from where I stand I truly believe that the use of all these drugs can only impact the breed in one way. I have no way of knowing exactly how drugs effect the genetic make-up of these great animals. I can only relate it to what we’ve seen in how it effects humans. I certainly don’t see these animals going any faster or enduring any real race campaigns. In fact, it seems to be going in the opposite direction (even with the drugs).

I’m not really focusing on the lower classed horses, although they get their fair share of drugs for whatever ails them. I’m more concerned with the breeding stock. After all, they will produce what we’ll see running in the future. I hate to paint a dismal picture, but I’m really beginning to wonder if we’ll ever see any true champions or even a Triple Crown winner again. I suspect that if we do it will come from a breeder outside the U.S. where drug use is less prevalent. Or perhaps it will be similar to last years crop where it wasn’t that the main contender was that good, it was just that the others were that bad.

I believe the entire racing industry has become very short sighted. They seem to want everything now, and to hell with the future. I’m really surprised that breeders don’t come forward and raise their own concerns. They have to know what’s going on! I for one would welcome hearing someone’s comments that has some real insight into the effects of long term drug use on these animals, especially on the breeding aspect.

OTM Al 1-16-2006

The unsoundness I'm talking about isn't inherant to a particular line per se. The top horses of those lines should continue them. Its just breeding any member of those line because they are of those line that causes the problems. Any line is going to have its weak spots which are getting coverd up by very short careers and lots of drugs. That is the breeding in of defects that I mean.

[Two Bucks To Win]

All these posts were posted well before Barbaro broke down. How about finding a post or an article (except from me) which even mentions drugs as a possible reason for his injury.

[JustRalph]

All these posts were posted well before Barbaro broke down. How about finding a post or an article (except from me) which even mentions drugs as a possible reason for his injury.

Sure looked like a bad step to me. I get your point, but the horse was only barely 3 years old and was very lightly raced. Do you really think he was on drugs long enough to weaken his bones etc.......? I don't..........

[kenwoodallpromos]

I hear a lot of whining by the degenerates about drugged horses when they lose a bet, but the furor usually dies down by post time for the next race. People love to use drugs as an excuse to justify losing a bet (rather than their own shitty handicapping) but no one mentions drugs as the cause of horses breaking down or dying.
________
Many bettors here and elsewhere talk about drugs helping to cause a weakening of the breed- leading occasionally to breakdowns.
There has not been much study that I know of of breakdown rates of Non-Bute or Non-Lasix horses vs. Tbreds on those drugs.
There has been studies of toe grabs, tracks, conformation, and stress as underlying causes of breakdowns.
It is common knowledge on this board that Lasix makes horses bleed less so run father, and Bute masks certain other drugs and also pain (milkshakes play a role in the horse feeling less tired).
Regardless of you having a specific agenda, it is to the credit of PA and the members of this board that they intensively question the reasons for Barbaro's breakdown, regardless if any underlying reason will be found.
I suggest you do some internet research on sites such as AAEP, HBPA, NTRA, U of A, Jockey Club (factbook), and hookl up with the Washington Post to accesss Andy Beyer's old posts. You can look at CHRB's rulle changes also.
This research will give you a better handle on what has beeen happening as far as racing trying to control drugs in horses.
If you want an even better issue to "rant" on, consider that alcohol is not banned in horses even on raceday!!

[chickenhead]

All these posts were posted well before Barbaro broke down.

That is my point, numbnuts. This has been a concern for many for years. YOU are the one that apparently just figured this out last week, so shelve your attitude, which likely stems from guilt for not having a clue sooner.

[PaceAdvantage]

Listen "Yank". You ain't making a lot of friends on this board in the short time you've been here. I rate your over/under of being kicked off at 10 days and I'll take the under. You should be familiar with stuff that is "short" and being "under". :ThmbDown: Pretend that is a middle finger. :cool:

This baloney is uncalled for. Xfile, have fun sitting it out for a while....5 day ban, starting today.

[Two Bucks To Win]

You provincial Americans think that you're the center of the universe, that the sport of horse racing revolves around you. Well what has happened is that the worm has turned and American racing is now seen as the bottom of the barrel and a laughingstock compared to other countries. European horses are clearly better (except maybe going 6 furlongs on the dirt), Japanese horses are better, heck a freakin pack mule from the mountains of Uruguay jumped off the plane and won a Grade 1 race because all he needed to beat was a short field of allowance-quality cripples. What are Americans doing different than everyone else? You already know the answer, and making races shorter (which we have already doing for the last 20 years) isn't going to help one bit.

[PaceAdvantage]

Ah, the truth is finally revealed......"Us Americans"


Thanks. Next thing you know, you'll be blaming Barbaro's injury on George W. Bush (yeah, I know, no politics in the horse racing section, but I just had to beat 'em to the punch).

[Two Bucks To Win]

This isn't about politics so don't try to turn it into such. America is rapidly becoming the toilet of the racing world and all the people who claim that it isn't are being provincial.

[kenwoodallpromos]

From the USA Jockey club:
"Thoroughbred industry as a whole depends on a balance between its racing and breeding sectors. Since the foal crop bottomed out in 1995, gross purses have increased at an annual rate of 4.2% compared to marginal gains for the registered foal crop and a moderate decline in the number of races. Accordingly, the average purse money available per race and per starter has grown at an annual rate of 6.9% and 4.3%, respectively, since 1995."
According to their stats, total # of races has increased in 10 years; total # of 2-year olds in training and # of races for 2 year olds have decreased.
Handle is up annually, and the # od foreigners joining PA forum is up.
Meanwhile, England is intalling more all-weather (dirt) tracks.

[Joe L.]

You provincial Americans
Just where is it that you call home?

[JustRalph]

Just where is it that you call home?


My guess is Canada......or worse yet.......France http://hometown.aol.com/froggykelly/images/frog%20dancing%202.gif

[Two Bucks To Win]

I live in America (through no fault of my own) but I sure don't consider myself "provincial" to the point where I can deny that American horse racing is nothing more than a cesspool.

[Joe L.]

America is rapidly becoming the toilet of the racing world and all the people who claim that it isn't are being provincial.
Someone holding a gun to your head and forcing you to watch and wager on "toilet racing?" You really are pompous and arrogant, so why not just turn up your stuffy nose at the "Americans" and wager on the "superior" animals that grace your fabulous homeland wherever that may be. :rolleyes:

[Two Bucks To Win]

Someone holding a gun to your head and forcing you to watch and wager on "toilet racing?"

No I'm just an addicted degenerate compulsive gambler who can't stop. :D

[Joe L.]

No I'm just an addicted degenerate compulsive gambler who can't stop. :D
Well... then quit yer bitchin' and 'cap that 3500n2l "toilet race" at PEN :cool:

[CryingForTheHorses]

This isn't about politics so don't try to turn it into such. America is rapidly becoming the toilet of the racing world and all the people who claim that it isn't are being provincial.

I take offence to this post..Who the hell do you think you are insulting people just to sound important.There are tons of us trying to make the game better.

[PaceAdvantage]

No I'm just an addicted degenerate compulsive gambler who can't stop. :D

No, actually, you're just shocked you're still able to post here.

[Two Bucks To Win]

I take offence to this post..Who the hell do you think you are insulting people just to sound important.There are tons of us trying to make the game better.

Well you're not doing a good enough job. Like I would trust anyone from the backstretch to lecture me about how clean and moral they are. That's like the fox walking through the henhouse while telling me "I'm not hungry". And call it an insult or whatever else you want but America IS a toilet when it comes to the quality of its racehorses and that's the truth whether you like it or not.

[Two Bucks To Win]

No, actually, you're just shocked you're still able to post here.

I guess those who claim you censor those who speak the truth according to how they view it were right all along.

Why do I get so much hostility from industry kiss-asses when I state the obvious?

[Tom]

I live in America (through no fault of my own) but I sure don't consider myself "provincial" to the point where I can deny that American horse racing is nothing more than a cesspool.

So what are you doing here - both America and on a horse racing board. Speaking as an American and a horse player, I would welcome your exit from both my worlds, you little dipstick. You are living here by chice, so shut up of leave. Your bullshit is getting boring.
Censor - get real, dude - you're lucky this is the internet - you'd get a punch in the nose in real life.

PA has been far more lenient with you than I would have - I'd have booted your sorry ass out a few days ago.

You do realize you are an ass, do you not?

[Joe L.]

Tom,
Internet high five for that post! ^5 :ThmbUp:

[CryingForTheHorses]

Well you're not doing a good enough job. Like I would trust anyone from the backstretch to lecture me about how clean and moral they are. That's like the fox walking through the henhouse while telling me "I'm not hungry". And call it an insult or whatever else you want but America IS a toilet when it comes to the quality of its racehorses and that's the truth whether you like it or not.

LMAO@ Backstretch Worker, Im also a trainer owner,hotwalker groom and yes I shovel shit..What makes you think Im not honest?

[Hank]

not giving more thought to the TITLE of this thread,the post itself Is fine the title seems to have brought the squirrels down from the trees.:bang:

[PaceAdvantage]

I guess those who claim you censor those who speak the truth according to how they view it were right all along.

Why do I get so much hostility from industry kiss-asses when I state the obvious?

Just who might "those" be that you speak of when you say "those who claim you censor?"

Remember, the only people who get censored around here are idiots, morons, and fools. Oh yeah, and those who repeat themselves endlessly and feel the need to do so in multiple threads.....Boring, boring, BOOOOOORRRRRRIIIIIIINNNNNNGGGGG. See what I mean?

And where do you have time to read the rest of the board? Aren't you monitoring every track for the next breakdown to occur?

And oh yeah, people who break the terms of this board are also censored:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/TOS_PrivacyStatement.html


If you don't like any of these rather "common sense" restrictions, you are free to find another forum. There are plenty out there.

After all, freedom of choice really IS the AMERICAN WAY!

[PaceAdvantage]

not giving more thought to the TITLE of this thread,the post itself Is fine the title seems to have brought the squirrels down from the trees.:bang:

Don't regret a thing. I'm just having some fun with $2 to win. Normally, he or she would have been gone a long time ago for being nothing more than a flaming troll. But I like to butt heads every once in a while. It keeps me on my toes.

I apologize to those who would have liked to have seen quicker action on my part....:lol:

[Tom]

:lol::lol::lol:

Ping........................................pong
Ping........................................pong
Ping........................................WHACK!

[kenwoodallpromos]

http://www.horse-races.net/library/dubai06-results.htm
_____
Link to the past e years' winners and full charts of results of this year's Dubai Cup, obvious which country's breeding won- perhaps you can tell me-
Which country's horses do you like today?LOL!

[dccprez]

I guess those who claim you censor those who speak the truth according to how they view it were right all along.

Why do I get so much hostility from industry kiss-asses when I state the obvious?


Wait a minute, wait a minute....

I just got it, and believe me, I am NOT the sharpest knife in the drawer...I ain't all that smart.

Two Bucks doesn't have any POINT any more so we end up with BS posts (as above) with nothing more than an insult JUST SO (S)HE CAN KEEP THE THREAD GOING.

He's/She's got nothing to say now (because hey, after you've said the same thing 3,467 times, you've REALLY said it all). From here-on-in we should simply ignore him(her) because there's no substance - you'd get more intelligent discussion/exchange of ides from a mailbox.

Too bad because at least initially (some 5,673 repetitions previous), at the core, once you scraped away all of the BS, Two Bucks did have a point and was well meant. Unfortunately (s)he refused to recognize that the majority of us share the same sentiments about the drug policies - the difference being that we realize that ranting and insulting American Racing or individuals isn't going to correct the problem.

(now how do I do that "ignore" thing...)

[PaceAdvantage]

You provincial Americans think that you're the center of the universe, that the sport of horse racing revolves around you. Well what has happened is that the worm has turned and American racing is now seen as the bottom of the barrel and a laughingstock compared to other countries.

Got something to say about what happened in the English Darby? Yeah, the Euros are so much better than us, especially when it comes to THE ALMIGHTY DOLLAR, correct? Here is a case where the jockey SPEAKS UP BEFORE THE RACE, and THEY STILL MAKE THE HORSE RUN. Yeah, those Europeans are so much better than us money hungry Americans, right Mr. Two Bucks To Win?

Have fun getting that foot out of your freakin' mouth. It's a shame a horse had to die to prove your opinions are worth squat.....

Sir Percy Wins Tight English Derby; Horatio Nelson Breaks Down (http://racing.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=33841)
Sir Percy won the $2.35 million Vodafone English Derby (Eng-I) in a photo finish Saturday, and Horatio Nelson pulled up with a broken front right foreleg. More... (http://racing.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=33841)

Horatio Nelson Euthanized (http://racing.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=33842)
Horatio Nelson, who stumbled and suffered a broken right foreleg about three-sixteenths of a mile from the finish in Saturday's Vodafone English Derby (Eng-I) at Epsom, was euthanized following x-rays that showed the colt had fractured cannon and sesamoid bones, and dislocated a fetlock joint. More... (http://bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=33842)

Questions arose about the condition of the Irish-bred son of Danehill because jockey Kieren Fallon had expressed concern about the colt's warm-up prior to entering the starting stall. Horatio Nelson held up the race for several minutes while he was trotted around under the watchful eye of trainer Aidan O'Brien before being allowed to race.

[JustRalph]

tough post PA. But appropriate...............every week this place makes you shake your head..........or is the game itself? Either way.........tough conditions........ :confused:

[kenwoodallpromos]

I've heard of Adrian O'Brien- been around enough to know how a horse is supposed to look.

[Bruddah]

I am an ex Marine and salute your service and say Semper Fi.

It has always bothered me, how those of us loving horse racing and thoroughbreds, can be so vehement about a position or opinion. It seems to me, this vitritude by thoroughbred fans is only surpassed by NASCAR fans.

I agree with your right to have a differing opinion than mine, regarding the Raise A Native-Mr Prospector Lineage. You being familiar with that line know the sire of RAN was the great Native Dancer. He won 21 of 22 races. Also, Native Dancer was the sire of Natalma, who was the dam of Northern Dancer.

I have kept, since 1987, records of the lineage of KY Derby winners and runners up. My records indicate the following:

19 Kentucky Derbies (does not include 2006 results)

sire line...Raise A Native
79starts..wins 11..plc 6..shw 3..4th 3..5th 7

sire line...Northern Dancer
69starts..wins 2..plc 4..shw 4..4th 4..5th 2

sire line...Nasrullah
56starts..wins 1..plc 2..shw 6..4th 2..5th 2

sire line...Turn-To
42starts..wins 1..plc 5..shw 3..4th 6..5th 4

sire line...Ribot
11starts..wins 1..plc 1..shw 1..4th 0..5th 0

I believe your imprssions of the RAN-Mr Prospector lineage to built upon the results of that lineage when it is present on the dam's sire line. This is the case with Barbaro. This colt is the first to win the Kentcky Derby, when the RAN lineage present on the dam's sire line. (A huge difference) The folowing comprises the records of that influence. (1987-2006..20 yrs)

dam's sire line (Raise A Native)
60starters..wins 1..plc..3..shw 2..4th 4..5th 1

Just trying to shed some information based on research. Now, I will allow each to form their own opinions, with no arguments from me. Good luck and good handicapping to all.

[Hank]

no doubt about the QUALITY of the RAN line performance wise,it produces fast, game racehorses. Who unfortunately tend to have conformational faults that do not inhibit speed,but tends to reduce duriablity and soundness,ie small feet and turned out knees, also top heaviness and upright pasterns.Semper Fi:ThmbUp:

[WJ47]

Although I've owned four riding horses (quarter horses that were rescues), I really don't know too much of equine genetics. But I was a dog breeder and owners of stud dogs are really fussy who they will allow to breed to their dog. They traced pedigrees back five generations to make sure there weren't dogs with genetic problems. Hips and elbows had to be good or excellent. All dogs had to have OFA xrays of their hips to prove that they had no hip dysplasia. If you breed dogs with hip dysplasia, you will get pups with hip dysplasia. There are some sires that produced pups with bad hips and bad temperments and other problems. Since we bred rottweilers, temperment was a great concern for us. I'm sure it probably works the same way with horses, some sires probably produce offspring with more problems than others. I know that certain horses are known for their bad tempered offspring.

As far as Barbaro being saved for breeding, I was doubtful right from the start that he'd definitely be able to cover mares. I think that it would be a bonus for his owners if he would be able to breed someday, but I think they saved him because they loved him and they had the money to do it.

The farm where I kept my horses was a breeding establishment and the better stud horse was covering mares on a daily basis during breeding season. It is actually kind of a strenuous thing for the horse! I remember watching a breeding for the first time years ago and being furious that the horse was more romantic than my husband was! ;)

The stud horse was a huge quarter horse that had been purchased to run as a racer at Commodore Downs in Erie, PA. I guess he failed to perform well as a racer, but his foals were real nice. One of my mares was bred to him and he produced a real nice looking colt who is 15 years old now.

Well, anyway, he was a real "studdish" stud who apparently never got tired of trying to breed even though he was getting plenty of action. I used to hate it when I'd have to walk my mare past him because he'd flare his nostrils and jump against the stall door and rear up in excitement. I was always afraid he'd break out and jump on her! So if Barbaro, who seemed high strung when being saddled, got that excited just from seeing a mare, he could really damage his leg again.

As far as the drugging, we had alot of standardbreds from Buffalo Raceway and Batavia Downs who were stabled at the farm and I heard some horrible stories over the years. I do believe that races are fixed and horses are drugged. I don't think its a huge amount of races, but occasionally you'll see a horse that was so totally unlikely that you know something dirty went on. I'm more concerned with horses with darkened forms and trainers entering their horses in races with no intentions of winning. I guess as long as there is money involved, someone will always be trying to get away with something.

[dccprez]

An OUTSTANDING post. I am very intrigued by that data. And somewhat humbled by your ability to compile it. Genuine "thanks" to you for sharing it.