HORSES ON CREATINE (So Cal Fan)

[delayjf]

Given the previous discussion on drugs, I wonder if anybody knows anything about the use of creatine in horseracing? I know I read somewhere where Joe Takach mentioned that some So Cal trainers use it. So Cal Fan, I thought you could shed some light on this.
For those who are not familiar with creatine, it is a naturally occuring substance that can be found in meat. When human muscles perform anaerobic exercise (like sprinting, weight lifting, etc) they use a substance stored in the muscles called ATP for immediate fuel. When the muscle depletes it's supply of ATP the muscle will begin to fatige or ultimately fail. What creatine does is saturate the muscles with ATP at a level higher than normal allowing the to work harder for longer periods. In humans its benefits are to increase muscle output while conducting anaerobic exercise. Again sprinters, weight lifters, or any exersise involving quick explosive movements will benefit from creatine. Creatine will not help endurance exersise as the body shifts to another fuel source.
I'm not sure how horse muscle compares with human muscle, But test after test shows Creatine to be affective, I'd guess that almost all college and Pro athletes take creatine as it is not a banned substance. Anybody know anything about this??? Any Vets out there.

[GR1@HTR]

http://www.nutritionalsupplements.com/indexcreatine.html

[hurrikane]

they make it for horses. would be hard to believe it's not being used.

http://www.equineracing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=ERSI

http://members.tripod.com/~Nutrihorse/products.html

[hurrikane]

something from blood horse

http://www.bloodhorse.com/health/viewstory.asp?id=771

[so.cal.fan]

I don't know much about it, but I forwarded this thread to Joe Takach. He may comment if he has time.
I am in Sierra Madre right now, not Del Mar, so I won't be able to discuss this with any of my horseman friends until the meet ends down there.
I read the links, and I'm sure it is being used, it sound as if it is a useful product.

[Jaguar]

I thought creatine was a synthetic steroid which helped Mark Maguire(not sure of spelling) to set a record for home runs hit during a baseball season.

Didn't know horsemen were using it, but then there are alot of things I don't know.

All the best,

Jaguar

[Dick Schmidt]

Jag,

Different stuff. Creatine is a naturally occurring substance in the body of all mammals. McGuire was taking a substance (forget the name) that is turned into testosterone in the body.

Dick

[Triple Trio]

Originally posted by Dick Schmidt
Jag,

Different stuff. Creatine is a naturally occurring substance in the body of all mammals. McGuire was taking a substance (forget the name) that is turned into testosterone in the body.

Dick

Dick the stuff that McGuire took is Androstine.

[entropy]

anderosterone??? i believe macguire ALSO took creatine.

[delayjf]

Looking at the article from Bloodstock, I'd be curious to know what doses where used in their test. I know that using creatine, the normal protocal is for a loading phase consisting of around 25 grams a day taken with an simple sugar (like gatorade) to induce an insulin spike that will drive the creatine into the muscles. It usually takes about 10-14 days to saturate the muscles, after that only a maintaince dose is required. You can forgo the loading phase and consume around 5 grams a day, but that would take about 30 days to saturate the muscles. Given the size difference between horses and humans, I could see how 25 grams given to a 1000 lbs horse would have no affect. It would require a dose of roughly of 125 grams to be in proportion to the horses weight. (maybe more when you consider muscle mass)
There are more than one way to ingest creatine (for humans). Some companies sell sub-lingual creatine that is absorbed through a persons gums. Also, you could always inject it.