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Citation33
05-16-2006, 01:08 PM
Do you have to pay taxes on any ticket over $600. Say a horse pays $50 and you have a $40 win win ticket on it. you have to pay taxes?or is it just taxes on anything you bet thats 300-1 odds

twindouble
05-16-2006, 01:18 PM
Do you have to pay taxes on any ticket over $600. Say a horse pays $50 and you have a $40 win win ticket on it. you have to pay taxes?or is it just taxes on anything you bet thats 300-1 odds

Just the 300-1 applies.

Citation33
05-16-2006, 01:25 PM
OK Thanks. Why do people when betting big on a 20-1 shot get 20 $10 tickets. Why dont they just get one $200 ticket. I thought they were doing it because each ticket would be under $600 dollars and they would'n have to pay taxes but the one $200 ticket is $4,000 dollars and they would. I think I saw this in Let it Ride with Richard Dreyfuss also. I also see it at the $50 and up window at the track. People get numerous tickets of the same bet instead of just one

skate
05-16-2006, 01:36 PM
hey hey now.

first time for everything.

i get turned around some times,but TD, i think you have to pay on $600 and over winner in sports.
coarse you'd have a write-off to counter.

but they will send the w-2g on $600 and over.

dccprez
05-16-2006, 01:46 PM
Just the 300-1 applies.

I'm going to say that this is a "maybe"...
I'm fairly certain that in my experience here in NY any single TICKET that pays over $600 is a "sign-for" winner. The 300-1 is a "basis", not the "only" criteria...

twindouble
05-16-2006, 01:51 PM
It's any payoff 300-1 or better you get a W2G to report. When it exceeds $5,000 they withhold taxes.

The idea behind multiple tickets in wagering like the tri, super or picks is an attempt to keep the payoff below taxable amount, ESP at the smaller tracks where the pools are smaller, that does work sometimes. Each winning ticket is treated separately when it comes to the 300-1 rule. The other benefit is in some States like MA your taxed on gambling income with no deductions. So a pile of W2G's can be costly.

T.D.

the little guy
05-16-2006, 01:53 PM
I'm going to say that this is a "maybe"...
I'm fairly certain that in my experience here in NY any single TICKET that pays over $600 is a "sign-for" winner. The 300-1 is a "basis", not the "only" criteria...

You NEVER have to sign unless the payoff is 300-1 or over....period. In fact, in NY at least ( and probably elsewhere ), you don't even have to sign for ALL 300-1 shots, as under $500 or $600 ( I believe it's the latter ) on a $1 bet is not a signer. I think this situation is one that just fell through the cracks.

Steve 'StatMan'
05-16-2006, 02:01 PM
OK Thanks. Why do people when betting big on a 20-1 shot get 20 $10 tickets. Why dont they just get one $200 ticket. I thought they were doing it because each ticket would be under $600 dollars and they would'n have to pay taxes but the one $200 ticket is $4,000 dollars and they would. I think I saw this in Let it Ride with Richard Dreyfuss also. I also see it at the $50 and up window at the track. People get numerous tickets of the same bet instead of just one

The Let It Ride with Trotter(Richard Dreyfuss) was filmed back in the late 80's-early 90's. There was a time long ago when teller lines only issued tickets for a specific amount. The early days of tote inovations was occuring back then, but that might have been the norm at that time. $50 increments at the $50 window, $10 increments at the $10 window, etc.

There are still some authorization limits as to how large a ticket some tellers are allowed to punch. I've seen some that weren't allowed to make a ticket or voucher over $500, others $200.

JustRalph
05-16-2006, 02:10 PM
Jay Cronley always dreamed of having a signer........thus the scene in the movie............ :lol: :lol: :lol:

Jay, are you out there?

Citation33
05-16-2006, 02:13 PM
So if they payoff is under 300-1 or under $600 you can bet as much as you want and not have to sign for it.

twindouble
05-16-2006, 02:15 PM
So if they payoff is under 300-1 or under $600 you can bet as much as you want and not have to sign for it.

Correct.

Citation33
05-16-2006, 02:22 PM
Ok then some people lie. Because Ive heard about people making large win bets and having to pay taxes. Then its impossible to pay taxes on a win bet because no horse wins at over 300-1 odds.

the little guy
05-16-2006, 02:25 PM
Ok then some people lie. Because Ive heard about people making large win bets and having to pay taxes. Then its impossible to pay taxes on a win bet because no horse wins at over 300-1 odds.

That's true....they would have been lying.

JackS
05-16-2006, 02:26 PM
I may be wrong but it seems to me that the w2 is issued when 300-1 is based on a $2 ticket. A $1 ticket that pays $300 is not taxed but the same $2 ticket that pays $600 is taxed.
The IRS rules state 300-1 but the rules were written when all tickets sold were $2. Have things changed?
The rule could also be an interpretation of each individual track or even each individual teller.
Patrons may be trying to play it safe by buying $1 tickets but weather this actually works, I don't know.

twindouble
05-16-2006, 02:36 PM
Ok then some people lie. Because Ive heard about people making large win bets and having to pay taxes. Then its impossible to pay taxes on a win bet because no horse wins at over 300-1 odds.

The other reason for multiple win tickets is, you can feed in large bets into the pool a little at a time so it won't be obvious to the public, radical drops in odds gets their attention. Others elect to wait to the last min to place large bets or real early. At the larger tracks the majority of us wouldn't make a dent on the pools. :D

Citation33
05-16-2006, 02:42 PM
Ok gotcha. Just though it was weird. I thought they taxed you on tickets over $600 dollars. Like if a exacta paid $596 or 298-1 and a man puts down a $500 win ticket on that exacta,he makes $145,000 on that ticket and the government wont tax him at all on that kind of money. Or if a guy bets $10,000 on say a 70-1 shot. He gets over $700,000 untaxed. Wow thats nice. Thanks for the help.Learned something new

twindouble
05-16-2006, 03:01 PM
Ok gotcha. Just though it was weird. I thought they taxed you on tickets over $600 dollars. Like if a exacta paid $596 or 298-1 and a man puts down a $500 win ticket on that exacta,he makes $145,000 on that ticket and the government wont tax him at all on that kind of money. Or if a guy bets $10,000 on say a 70-1 shot. He gets over $700,000 untaxed. Wow thats nice. Thanks for the help.Learned something new

You get the point but your examples are unrealistic, every bet made effect the odds and payoffs, for example having an exacta 250 times won't produce that $145 grand, the payoff would be much smaller. Anyway, money makes money as you know.

HolyBull29
05-16-2006, 03:13 PM
Yeah I always thought u had to sign off on big money winnings or anything over $600. Amazing you could win thousands of dollars and the government does take any of it. I think there is a mistake in Let it Ride then. After he wins alot of money like in the 7th or 8th race and hes collecting and the clerk is adding up doesnt the clerk mention taxes? If thats true it would be false because Dreyfuss is betting win bets.

skate
05-16-2006, 04:38 PM
You get the point but your examples are unrealistic, every bet made effect the odds and payoffs, for example having an exacta 250 times won't produce that $145 grand, the payoff would be much smaller. Anyway, money makes money as you know.

hey TD; not now, but some day, would you ...splain that. i mean how does that work, "he gets the point, but his samples are unreal".

what a while, please...

twindouble
05-16-2006, 04:45 PM
hey TD; not now, but some day, would you ...splain that. i mean how does that work, "he gets the point, but his samples are unreal".

what a while, please...


First the TLG, now you want to pick on me. You figure it out. :D

skate
05-16-2006, 04:49 PM
just kidden, but what is the TLG?


now that one i need right now!

Overlay
05-16-2006, 04:54 PM
TLG = The Little Guy (another PA board member)

And when twindouble says those exacta examples are unrealistic, I believe he's making the point that putting that much money on a single combination would lower the payoff (because of the pari-mutuel system) to where it wouldn't be as high as Citation33 was saying.

twindouble
05-16-2006, 05:01 PM
just kidden, but what is the TLG?


now that one i need right now!

The Little Guy, our anchor man, Andy Serling. He has a habit of correction my spelling and grammar. The latter word I learned to spell from him, it use to be gramor. :D

Citation33
05-16-2006, 05:41 PM
OK no kidding the numbers I made for exactas and whatever were unreal. It was a point that I was making that I didnt know you could win a ton of money and not pay taxes.

JustRalph
05-16-2006, 05:48 PM
I didnt know you could win a ton of money and not pay taxes.

Don't worry, you win enough and they will be taking it right off the top! And don't forget..........you have to pay your state taxes at the end of the year. So make sure you hold back enough to cover that nut, depending on what state you are in............the rules differ a little from state to state.

BTW, if you nail a nice one online and your balance doesn't add up.......you think you are about 35% short..........it is the tax man..........done gotcha!

twindouble
05-16-2006, 07:56 PM
Don't worry, you win enough and they will be taking it right off the top! And don't forget..........you have to pay your state taxes at the end of the year. So make sure you hold back enough to cover that nut, depending on what state you are in............the rules differ a little from state to state.

BTW, if you nail a nice one online and your balance doesn't add up.......you think you are about 35% short..........it is the tax man..........done gotcha!

When it comes to Youbet all your gambling information is private, with the exceptions of W2G's you get from them. It's your responsibility to report your income, not their's. Your right, I get wacked every year with State taxes on those dumb ass W2G's. Those small payoffs under a grand add up over a year.