The President's Speech on Immigration

[Tom]

Just taking the polls that real Americans will not take!

[twindouble]

Just taking the polls that real Americans will not take!

Your Poll is a little bias isn't it? :D

[Tom]

The percentage of answers that support him about parallel his approval ratings. :lol:

Serioulsy, it is a stupid plan that will fail without any doubt. It shows what a pathetic idiot Bush really is. No part of it makes any sense at all. It is a ploy.

[twindouble]

The percentage of answers that support him about parallel his approval ratings. :lol:

Serioulsy, it is a stupid plan that will fail without any doubt. It shows what a pathetic idiot Bush really is. No part of it makes any sense at all. It is a ploy.

I'm on your side when it comes to immigration but what really pisses me off is the politicians that ignored this problem for 3 decades, State, federal along with INS and law enforcement. Here we are 5 years after 9/11 and they haven't done anything to speak of yet. How can the be doing a half ass job when they've done nothing. Bush's answer will be 10 years in the making before it has any effect because they still won't enforce the laws, Esp in an election year. It will be way beyond 08, unless a few more thousand Americans get killed. When that happens there will be another commission formed, hearings that will last another year or more and any legislation will take another year or two. :bang:

If we don't clean house we are in deep shit in my opinion.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Unmanned planes is good, but I do not like that employers geta total pass- a great many day labor employers do not check the legal status of workers.
The Feds and Bush just want to stop ther Minutemen from putting up fences.

[JustRalph]

save the money and put in a mine field. End of problem.

[headhawg]

Or they can just get a bunch of those cats that JR has as his avatar.

[Tom]

Or they can just get a bunch of those cats that JR has as his avatar.

Border Cats! :lol:

Ken - sure sounds like anmesty for businesses, eh?

Ralph - I see no good reason not to use land mines. We need to militarize the border and station troops - not Guard - INSIDE the mexican border.

And Bush said mexico was our friend? What ignorance! Mexico exports the majority of illegal drugs to our country.

War on terror - doesn't exist
War on drugs - doesn't exist.

Granted, this crap has been going on for decades, but only one president is in the postion to do anything about them. Just our luck it's Dilly Dally!

[Lefty]

He's going to end up DOUBLING the border patrol. He is going to get the National Guard to help out. He realizes you can't deport 11-12 million people.
He is the only Pres since Reagan to even TRY to address the problem, and all he gets is crap. Most of you deserve Hillary in 08! Phooey!

Q on poll should have been : a good comprehensive prgm that will help start to solve this complicated problem.

[chickenhead]

He realizes you can't deport 11-12 million people.

You don't have to. Beef up enforcement of the employment laws, and they will LEAVE. No jobs, no benefits -- Hasta La Vista.

You act like its benevolent of him to address this issue, he's doing it because we are demanding he do it...its not like we are supposed to accept whatever scraps they throw us, they are supposed to be doing our bidding -- and if they're not, we should be pissed.

That's how a democracy works, holding peoples feet to the fire...not congratulating someone on every half ass idea they come out with.

[JustRalph]

My wife arrived at her Restaurant this morning just in time to see the Immigration guys loading up her night time cleaning crew. They were all in handcuffs too.

They are employed by a sub contractor who cleans the restaurant at night.

[chickenhead]

My wife arrived at her Restaurant this morning just in time to see the Immigration guys loading up her night time cleaning crew. They were all in handcuffs too.

They are employed by a sub contractor who cleans the restaurant at night.

I hope they saved some handcuffs for the contractor.

[lsbets]

He realizes you can't deport 11-12 million people.


Maybe we should stop enforcing almost all laws, since its impossible to get every lawbreaker. Heck, no more speeding tickets, I'd like that. I seem to get pulled over at least once a year while some folks always speed and get away with it. So, lets forget about traffic laws, too hard to enforce. And how many drunk drivers are on the road? There's no way to ticket all of them, so lets not even bother trying, I mean its hard, why bother?

[Tom]

The big lie on this issue is that border security is tie dinto immigration. It is not. Border security is a stand alone issue of national security. NOTHING releating immigration will work until the borders are secured. Period. To me, it is stupid thinking to tie anything in with BS ( border security, not BS:rolleyes: ).

You stop the bleeding first, then decide what other measure need be taken. This whole thing will fail because nobody has correctly identified the problems. There are more than one. Do the basics first.

There are two root causes to the illegal problem - employeers blatantly violating the law to create a sub-class fo near slave laborers, and a thoroughly corrupt mexican governemnt that encourages this. Bush has ignored both parties, and in fact, given a bye to one and praised the other. To me, this is stupidity or brain damage. Or worse, treason.

I have no doubt Hillary would do a better job in many areas than Bush.

[skate]

didn't here the speech, voted ?Que , what does that mean, thanks


hey, and to think, this imagration thing started when?

[skate]

The big lie on this issue is that border security is tie dinto immigration. It is not. Border security is a stand alone issue of national security. NOTHING releating immigration will work until the borders are secured. Period. To me, it is stupid thinking to tie anything in with BS ( border security, not BS:rolleyes: ).

You stop the bleeding first, then decide what other measure need be taken. This whole thing will fail because nobody has correctly identified the problems. There are more than one. Do the basics first.

There are two root causes to the illegal problem - employeers blatantly violating the law to create a sub-class fo near slave laborers, and a thoroughly corrupt mexican governemnt that encourages this. Bush has ignored both parties, and in fact, given a bye to one and praised the other. To me, this is stupidity or brain damage. Or worse, treason.

I have no doubt Hillary would do a better job in many areas than Bush.


from what i can tell, they don't have any roots down there... do to lack of rainfall.

oh oh oh , my favorite, "anybody who is able to ignore both parties, gets my vote, thank you very mucho"..

[Lefty]

So far, all i've read here is simplistic thinking that goes beyond any Pres's power to implement. He can't win with this bunch, and if this is a microcasm of the rest of U.S. we are doomed to have Hillary in 08. Seems the people that do NOTHING about real problems are heralded while those who try to come up with reasonable solutions are denigrated. Just heard Pelosi spk and these dems switch sides in this debate so often hard to where they stand. They are the do nothing party and maybe America needs another dose of them.

[twindouble]

Anyone know how long the border with Mexico is?

[chickenhead]

2000 miles, methinks.

[twindouble]

2000 miles, methinks.


That's interesting, I'll be back in a little while with some information.

[JustRalph]

microcasm

is that what Jockeys have? A new word from Lefty!

[lsbets]

So far, all i've read here is simplistic thinking that goes beyond any Pres's power to implement.

Lefty - I'm just asking that he enforce the law. If someone is here illegally and gets caught, send them home. You don't catch everyone who speeds on the highway, but the speeding enforcement that we do have deters people from speeding excessively.

Here's a suggestion - make it mandatory for hospitals to call and report illegals when they come in for health care or the hospitals don't get any federal funding (to include Medicaid and Medicare payments). Just wait till you see how many folks go home one that is cut off. Here's another one - require schools to report illegal aliens. If we can force colleges to allow military recruiters on campus (and we should) than we can force schools to report illegal aliens.

How many of the 12 million do you think those two ideas just caught? I don't know, lets say 500,000. Then, send the immigration guys to day labors centers on a one day nationwide sweep. Have the guard help them. What did we just get, 500,00 more? Okay, that's a million. You know what else happens? Less come in because of the deterence of enforcement and some go home. We won't get all 12 million but we'll get a hell of a lot of them.

[Tom]

So far, all i've read here is simplistic thinking that goes beyond any Pres's power to implement. He can't win with this bunch, and if this is a microcasm of the rest of U.S. we are doomed to have Hillary in 08. Seems the people that do NOTHING about real problems are heralded while those who try to come up with reasonable solutions are denigrated. Just heard Pelosi spk and these dems switch sides in this debate so often hard to where they stand. They are the do nothing party and maybe America needs another dose of them.

Then why would it be so bad having Hillary in office? What would she be able to do that Bush cannot? Seems to me by your way of thinking, there is nothing the president can do without a super majority, and she will never have that, so why would she be so bad?

How about this - send 6,000 IRS agents out across AMerica to look into who is hirning uillegals, and then do nothing more than enforce existing law?
Do you think President Fluffy could handle that?

We have troops guarding borders in Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, who knows where else, but Butter-Boy Bush can't do it in his own country?

We rallied troops, invaded and liberated two nations in two years, one of them one that held and eventually BEAT the USSR, but we can't guard our own borders?

I am sick and tired of hearing what Bush cannot do. If he is so worthless, I wnat the $200,000 a year we pay him back.

"Ask not what your president can do for you, ask how you can defend his pathetic inactions!"

[Tom]

How many of the 12 million do you think those two ideas just caught? I don't know, lets say 500,000. Then, send the immigration guys to day labors centers on a one day nationwide sweep. Have the guard help them. What did we just get, 500,00 more? Okay, that's a million. You know what else happens? Less come in because of the deterence of enforcement and some go home. We won't get all 12 million but we'll get a hell of a lot of them.

But, if you don't secure the border, 3 million will sneak in when INS is at the day camps. But that is too simple, I guess.

I wish I had Lefty's address - I bet his front door is never locked. And if it is, I want to know why!:lol: If unlocked doors are good for America, then dammit, they are good for all of us!

[twindouble]

Alaska Highway. Over 1500 miles of road.


Construction of the highway began on March 9, 1942, the start of months of misery for the 20,000 mainly US soldiers shanghaied to ram a road through mountains, mud, mosquito-ridden bogs, icy rivers and forest during some of the harshest extremes of weather. Incredibly, crews working on the eastern and western sections met at Contact Creek, British Columbia, in September 1942, and completed the last leg to Fairbanks in October – an engineering triumph that had taken less than a year but cost around $140 million. The first full convoy of trucks to make Fairbanks managed an average 25kph during one of the worst winters in memory.

Now you tell me we can't build a freaking fence with the equipment and technology we have today under reasonable weather conditions in one dam year when we are "AT War!!" :mad:

[wonatthewire1]

Here's a suggestion - make it mandatory for hospitals to call and report illegals when they come in for health care or the hospitals don't get any federal funding (to include Medicaid and Medicare payments).


interestingly, ls, it is exactly the opposite situation at the current time with hospitals > in other words, you can't turn anyone away if you accept Medicare/Medicaid for reimbursement from any patient in 1 calendar year.

Here's a story from a few years ago on how people will "play" the system. In NJ, the state will reimburse an institution for "charity" care, and the person or family using a card would present to an ER registrar to be treated. One evening, a female showed up at the desk and handed over a "charity-clinic" card for the registration, however, the only names on the card were male. When the registrar asked about the slight problem with what was being presented, the translator for the patient advised the patient of the problem...

Instead of simply admitting to a mistake, the person, simply insisted that she was "Ricardo" until we could get her real name and register her with the program...like she would be getting away with something rather than simply getting the card for herself...

[wonatthewire1]

I wnat the $200,000 a year we pay him back.

hey Tom...fyi, we pay him $400,000 a year!

[Ponyplayr]

He's going to end up DOUBLING the border patrol. He is going to get the National Guard to help out. He realizes you can't deport 11-12 million people.
He is the only Pres since Reagan to even TRY to address the problem, and all he gets is crap. Most of you deserve Hillary in 08! Phooey!

Q on poll should have been : a good comprehensive prgm that will help start to solve this complicated problem.
We do not have to deport them..if we use existing laws to stop the transfer of the 30 plus billion dollars to Mexico they will stop coming and most of the illegals who are here will leave.

[Lefty]

We do not have to deport them..if we use existing laws to stop the transfer of the 30 plus billion dollars to Mexico they will stop coming and most of the illegals who are here will leave.

Yeah, right, they will just run back across the border to NOTHING and leave their U.S. born children behind.
Poor Bush is flanked by stupidity on the left and right.

[Tom]

I wnat the $200,000 a year we pay him back.

hey Tom...fyi, we pay him $400,000 a year!


Well that sets withme about as well as garlic chewing gum!:mad:

[Tom]

Nothing will work until we secure the borders. Bush does not want to do this, no matter what he says. Neither does the Senate. Our only hope lies in the house.
Bush' plan will allow illegal to not only stay, but bring in thier extended families! He says it is not amnesty, but he lies. It is more than amnesty - it is a welome mat. He totally ignore the crimes being committed by business right now - and instead says it is hard for them to identify illegals. But he lies.
He says we need a guest worker program to help control the border. But he lies. A guest worker program ALREADY EXISTS. Ask any English nanny - they come here on GUEST WORKER VISAS.

Bush is joined by Turbin Durbin and Ted Kennedy - is that in itself not cause to run in fear?

You want conspiracy theories - here is mine and I believe it - it is a plot by the uber-rich who do not need the USA - Bush's, Kennedy's, they are global families - they thrive and grow on slave labore pools, on a version of Indian Untouchables. They exist and grow laterally, not vertically - the USA is no longer needed by them, and in fact, it is a roadblock. Bush has repeatedly hinted at a one-nation North America - one that has a few at the top, a gigantic poor base, and NO MIDDLE CLASS. There are already more billionaires in Meixico than Switzerland. It the same thing some here applaud - new millionaires in tis country every year. The other side of the coin is more below poverty - this is the master plan. Bush and his secret society backers are destryoing freedom and the constitution to further thier own agendas.

These people, with Bush as thier leader, are the real terrorists - the real enemy. Al Qeda offers nothing compared to the threat of Bush.

It is a big busniness dream come true - wandering hoards of poor worked, coming to them to outbid each other for the right to work for less and less. This is the Bush legacy. Credit to Randi Rhodes for that observation - try as I might, I could not find fault with it. Mixed in with all her ignorance and trailer park trash talk, she hit the nail on the head.

BTW, every law we need to address this problem is already on the books.

[DJofSD]

After what I heard about the FLA gators, I say put some of those Steve Irwin pole cats on the border.

[Lefty]

Tom, did you not hear the part about the National guard and doubling the existing border patrol?

[DJofSD]

Here's a suggestion - make it mandatory for hospitals to call and report illegals when they come in for health care or the hospitals don't get any federal funding (to include Medicaid and Medicare payments). Just wait till you see how many folks go home one that is cut off. Here's another one - require schools to report illegal aliens. If we can force colleges to allow military recruiters on campus (and we should) than we can force schools to report illegal aliens.

We tried something along those lines in California. The courts ruled in unconstitutional.

[Ponyplayr]

Yeah, right, they will just run back across the border to NOTHING and leave their U.S. born children behind.
Poor Bush is flanked by stupidity on the left and right.
I have to agree with you on that. He is flanked by stupidity on the left and right.

Carl Rove on the left and Dick Cheney on the right. Cheney is so stupid he cant tell a Quail from a human being :faint:

[Lefty]

pony, guess you and 46, lbj and hcap just get off making these frequent non-posts. You guys should be on the stage, and then you'd see how unfunny you really are.

[Ponyplayr]

pony, guess you and 46, lbj and hcap just get off making these frequent non-posts. You guys should be on the stage, and then you'd see how unfunny you really are.Lefty...It's Bush who thinks we are stupid. He said he was going to increase the number of Border Patrol after 9-11. Did he? Why should we believe him now? Six thousand troops the first year then down to three thousand the second year. Why?
This is pandering to the polls not a solution to the problem.

[Tom]

Tom, did you not hear the part about the National guard and doubling the existing border patrol?

Yes, I did.
Did you?

Friday, it was 10,000.
Fox called Saturday.
Monday, it is down to 6,000.

They will go there on a rotating basis - during thier 2-week training period.
No arms. There with a primary mission of training. Green. No training on border policies. No actual enforcement activities.

Doubling the existing border patrol?
I heard it in another version - training Iraqi security. Same shit, differnt day.
They will on the border temporarily - only until Mexico can govern itself.

What good is doubling the border patrol going to do when we release the vast majority of those caught?
1100 rounded up in California two weeks ago - 900 back on the street in under two hours.

Gimme a break - this whole thing is a farce - put on by a bunch of clowns with no intention of representing this country.

And, as Jay Leno said tonight - who says we can't round up 12 million people and move them over the border? Mexcio did it!:eek:

[Tom]

I have to agree with you on that. He is flanked by stupidity on the left and right.

Carl Rove on the left and Dick Cheney on the right. Cheney is so stupid he cant tell a Quail from a human being :faint:

I heard Karl talking about illegal immigratin yesterday - he is dumber than the lefties make him out to be!

Picture this - Bush pondering someting ( air?) and Rove and Chenney as tiny little devils in red, talking into either ear. They tell Bush different things, and eventually Chenny-devil say "Go Fox yourself!" and shoots Rove-devil. :lol:

[Lefty]

let me get this strght, do you or do you not think doubling the border patrol and putting the national guard there is a good idea. Forget your opinion that you don't think he'll do it,(amazing you criticize for something he hasn't done but you don't think, from your omnipotent perspective, but I digress)
is it a good idea. Yes or no?

[Lefty]

1100 hundred rounded up, 900 released. He addressed the catch release b.s. too, did you not hear that?

[KingChas]

You guys think it's bad now?They started pushing "Lil Jeb" for a presidential run.Another Chad election.With Sr and Jr etal!.. pulling the puppet strings. :(

Maybe I'll head for Mexico! I've started saving for the gas now! ;)

[Lefty]

You guys think it's bad now?They started pushing "Lil Jeb" for a presidential run.Another Chad election.With Sr and Jr etal!.. pulling the puppet strings. :(

Maybe I'll head for Mexico! I've started saving for the gas now! ;)
Stay, King. You can vote for hillary. She needs all your support.

[Tom]

let me get this strght, do you or do you not think doubling the border patrol and putting the national guard there is a good idea. Forget your opinion that you don't think he'll do it,(amazing you criticize for something he hasn't done but you don't think, from your omnipotent perspective, but I digress)
is it a good idea. Yes or no?

Things are not that simple. It could be good, but we only turn out 500 border agent a year....do the math. 10,000 would have been better than 6,000.

I cannot make any blanket statements about Bush - he is a proven liar and failure - everything he start, he never finishes. He is half-assed at everything.

Putting the guard there on a rotating 2-week basis is not a good thing. Having not consulted anyone local about what is needed was a stupid thing to do.

There are agenst ready to go on duty right now - many of them - but Bush has still not released the already approved funds to pay them.
There is no plan or guidelines for how the guard will interact with the locals. This is a bad thing.

Can't answer yes or no.
You try one...is it a good ting to turn lead in to gold?
Yes or no?
If Bush said he would do it, would you believe it, your blind obediance notwithstanding, but I , too digress?

I think putting 6,000 IRS agent in the field would be far better.

Oh, yeah, and he is going to spend, what 1.9 billion to fund this? We spend 2 billion a month in Iraq, failing to protect THIER border. 2/3 of our national guard is over their failing to proctect borders, so what makes anyone think 1/3 of them back here will do any better?

And Jeb....I read somewhere 50% of all laborers in Florida are illegal. Anyone see that one?

[Tom]

1100 hundred rounded up, 900 released. He addressed the catch release b.s. too, did you not hear that?

Heard it.
When does it start?
Why not yesterday?
Why not today?

Talk is cheap, and so is his suit.
He said the oil revenues would pay for the re-building of Iraq, too. When?
He said gas prives here would drop after the war. When?
He said we were going to Mars. When?
He said there would no safe harbor for anyone who aids terroists - what about Pakistan? They are hiding Bin Laden.

He says much, does little.
He has no credibility with me - he is a liar.

[Lefty]

Why does Bush bother? He alone tries to do something and he gets flogged left and right. I'm disgusted with you all, imagine how he must feel. Go back to the Dems, now they are real problem solvers. Why we didn't have any probs at all until bush got elected.
A proven liar, no he's not and your statement is disgusting.

[Tom]

I think he feels rich and powerful.
And stupid. :lol:

His performance is what is disgusting. "He alone..." what do you call the house bill - the one that really addressed the problem - passed a while ago? Chopped liver?

What do you call those on the border pleading for the funding already passed and being held up by Bush? Whiners?

Clinton said he did not have sex with that woman.
Bush has lied about far more important things. He lied to NYC when he had air quality reports falsified to say unsafe air was safe near ground zero - that alone is worhty of impeachment.
And no, I am not going back to the libs - I want to try electing a conservative - this one lied about being one. Nothing about bush is conservative - he is as liberal as ones gets - unchecked spending, big governement, unprecedented entitlement programs.....what the hell do you think a lib is? Now he is palling around with Turbin Durbin and Teddy -signs of liberish for sure.
His own party is turning on him - rightly so.

And while we had problems before Bush, they have multipled since his term started. You complian about medicare and SS - do you have any idea what effect allowing all the families of the illegasl come here - part of Bush's plan - will do to those program - kiss your SS check good bye becase millions of people who never put a cent into it will start collecting, along with teir welfare checks and food stamps. He is advocating opening the flood gates and letting in millions of unskilled, uneducated, bascially useless people. We will have to educate them, provide for them, divert money from taxpayers.
Wait until he, like 41, has no choice but to raise your taxes. Yup - Daddy was a liar, too.

Yes or no....did 41 promise no new taxes, then sign higher taxes into law?

[Lefty]

Tom, it's clear, no matter what Bush said last night, you would denigrate him.
Your poll is a sham, you have no interest in debate, only to mock the Pres.
He is trying to do something Clinton did not address. He has a plan, you don't like it, okay. Now what do the Dems propose as a solution?
BTW, in a snap poll last night, 70% of the pipples on board with putting the "Guard" on the border.
If he doesn't do it, then call him a liar, not before.

[Lefty]

As far as him letting open the floodgates and letting millions in, I missed that part. Maybe you are imagining things. A guest worker prgm is not that. We have 11 million or so illegals here now, deporting them is not practical, letting them earn citizenship may be the only way we can even begin to solve the problem. It's complex, but you kneejerkers want simple solutions. They do not exist.

[DJofSD]

What a joke:

letting them earn citizenship may be the only way we can even begin to solve the problem.

Earn citizenship? They don't give a rats-ass about citizenship. They just want the money.

If they were sincere about becoming American citizens they would respect and obey the law.

Why do you think that those that create the problem are now going to be able to solve the problem? The self-serving politicians have let this problem become a crisis because it serves them to do so. And the so-called solutions they offer are not solutions at all. They offer us "feel good" rhetoric -- nothing more.

If Bush and his pack of liars were serious they would offer something new. What was offered last night was not new. It's the same old bull-crap lies that were promulgated upon the American public the last time illegal immigration was dealt with. And what has come from that? Nothing except a worse problem. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

The country that fought a won 2 world wars is not the same country we have now.

[Lefty]

DJ, it's complicated. You have a better solution? The solution is not perfect, not even close, but what to do? Something must be done. The problem must be addressed and no perfect solution exists.
And i'm getting sick of you guys calling the Pres a liar? Something new? There is nothing new. Sorry, but you expect him to pull a rabbit out of thin air when nobody but NOBODY has a solution that will make everyone happy. Guards to the border is a start. Some kind of earned citicenship is prob the only solution, to the ones that are here, as repugnent as it is.

[DJofSD]

Sorry, Lefty, but that fact of the matter is he is a liar.

During the campaign 5 years ago, he told the audience in San Diego that protecting the border (what ever that meant) was a top priority. He claims because he was the governor of a border state that he understood the problem.

Well, here we are, 5 years later and what has been done? Nothing.

The time for seeking a perfect solution has long since past. And I hate that numb-brain approach of having to understand the problem before we can begin to solve it.

The first step is to secure the borders. Amnesty only rewards the cheaters.

Can we deport millions of people? Hell no, we could not even evacuate NO.

[twindouble]

Sorry, Lefty, but that fact of the matter is he is a liar.

During the campaign 5 years ago, he told the audience in San Diego that protecting the border (what ever that meant) was a top priority. He claims because he was the governor of a border state that he understood the problem.

Well, here we are, 5 years later and what has been done? Nothing.

The time for seeking a perfect solution has long since past. And I hate that numb-brain approach of having to understand the problem before we can begin to solve it. :lol: I agree!

The first step is to secure the borders. Amnesty only rewards the cheaters.

Can we deport millions of people? Hell no, we could not even evacuate NO.

This problem isn't going to go away unless the border is totally shut down. Simple as that. The whole thing was encouraged by our governments, State, Federal, the Mexican government along with businesses, large, small including the rich that wanted asses whipped by cheep labor. So lets point the finger where it belongs. I have more compassion for those that got used and abused than I do those suckers. You can't have thousands of people crossing the border and not have a complete network already established and well organized, it takes two to tangle, Mexico and the US. Now that the American people understand what's been going on, those mealy mouth bastards in Washington and Bordering State's are attempting to blind side us again. Will they succeed, of course they will, because we don't have the balls or the where with all to take on the organized crime families, both parties. Half of the registered voters won't vote in the up coming elections, because most of the capo's are running again. If there's was ever a time for 3rd party in this country it's now. Where are the leaders when we need the them the most, I tell you where, more than likely they were abborted and toss in a garbage can!

T.D.

[ljb]

This immigration thing. The Bush folks don't really want to stem the flow of cheap labor into this country, it helps in keeping labor costs competitive/low. We keep hearing the immigrants take jobs Americans wouldn't do. How about, the immigrants work for wages Americans wouldn't work for ?

So, we're going to put troops on the border, how long before we have armed national troops standing on every street corner much like the dictatorships in South America ?
Tom has suggested Bush is like a liberal with his spending. Close Tom but not quite right. Bushco and the neocons want to bankrupt American it fits into their plan of crying poverty and being able to provide a military force only. They will pander to any and all groups to get and maintain power. Witness their calls for a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage prior to the last election. Recall their midnight escapades during the Terri Schiavo incident. Many on here are starting to see the light. Some are having a hard time facing reality, some never will, but this thread/poll is a positive sign. I would also go for a third party but can't see it happening until we get actual election reform. Until that happens corporations and their expense account lobbyists will continue to hold a tight grip on American politics and policies.

[Lefty]

like
I say, you giuys want simple quick solutions to a complex problem. Go back to Oz.

[Lefty]

lbj, first you want the border secured then you don't want the nat'l guard there and then you sprw the lib rhetoric. Bush is going to double the border patrol, did your sex fiend pal Clinton do that or anything? No. The Guard is temporary while we train more border patrol. Ensign said last night it takes a year to train 1500 new border patrol guards.
Dj, sorry he didn't get right on that 5 yrs ago but he got distracted. Something about an attack in N.Y....
This Pres tackles big probs, probs Clinton shied away from, he gets the grief for it. Amazing to me.

[JustRalph]

BTW, if I read some things right.........these national guard troops aren't even going to be armed..........they will be spending their two week summer duties "helping out" the border patrol.

so much for storm troopers on every corner.

A Flippin Mine Field Stops the whole problem.


The thing you guys are missing;

Bush and the gang have started rounding up business owners and line level supervisors and jailing them for hiring illeg. aliens. they are starting with those who are supporting them (homes and living quarters) and importing illeg. Aliens. This is going to start having a very serious effect on Illeg.Aliens not being able to work in this country. Slowly but surely.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060510/NEWS0103/605100358/-1/all

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060517/NEWS01/605170352/-1/CINCI

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display?content=5581

Soon if you hire an illegal you face jail time. And people are starting to turn employers in. It is happening where I live .............

From the Cincy Enquirer

CONCERN AS WORD SPREAD

Sister Juana Mendez started getting frantic calls from immigrants at 7 a.m. They weren't sure if it was safe to come home after their workdays were over or even pick up their children from Boone County public schools.

One woman was crying, said Sister Mendez, who helps immigrants through the Diocese of Covington's Centro de Amistad ("Friendship Center").

"She was hysterical. She said, 'What am I going to do?' She had a son in one school and a daughter in another," the nun said.

Mauricio, who sends money to help support children he left behind in Guatemala, said he, too, didn't know what to do next.

At 3 p.m., Mauricio stood forlorn in front of his apartment, looking for his wife. She had left for her factory job about 5 a.m., and the police arrived about 6 a.m., he said. All day, he had been calling her cellular phone, but she didn't answer, and he didn't know where she was.

It wasn't clear Tuesday night if his wife was one of the arrested.

Mauricio said he was concerned about friends and relatives who he saw with plastic handcuffs around their wrists. They should have been treated with more dignity, he said.

"If I have to leave, I will leave ... ," Mauricio said. "But don't treat me like an animal. ... We have rights. Why? Because this is the land of God. The only thing we don't have is papers, identification."

[ljb]

JR,
It is a slippery slope. If I had told you a year ago the government was going to tap your phone lines and do some data mining, would you have believed me ? With proper management of fear there is nothing the government can do that will raise the ire of it's citizens.
Think about it.

[ljb]

lbj, first you want the border secured then you don't want the nat'l guard there and then you sprw the lib rhetoric. Bush is going to double the border patrol, did your sex fiend pal Clinton do that or anything? No. The Guard is temporary while we train more border patrol. Ensign said last night it takes a year to train 1500 new border patrol guards.
Dj, sorry he didn't get right on that 5 yrs ago but he got distracted. Something about an attack in N.Y....
This Pres tackles big probs, probs Clinton shied away from, he gets the grief for it. Amazing to me.
Lefty,
I have always wanted the border secured. This republican congress and administration have done nothing other then give more tax breaks to the wealthy. They have in fact detered efforts to strengthen our border patrol. Clinton is not my pal. This President creates big problems. Clinton got a bj. Not much comparison there.

[Tom]

The best solution I have to offer is this:

Give our full support to the House - they have the right idea.
Give the co-ordinates of the Senate to Al Qeda - let one problem take care of another. :lol:

But I sill have one quetion - why does anyone just assume we have any oblivation whatsoever to allow ANYONE into this country?

mexico is going to court over our putting troops on the border. If they win, Iraq will now have precedent ot get us out of there, no?

[Tom]

BTW, in a snap poll last night, 70% of the pipples on board with putting the "Guard" on the border.
If he doesn't do it, then call him a liar, not before.

And 77% favor securing the border, yet Bush is siding with the libs who are blocking this.
And 70% think Bush is doing a bad job.
I thought polls didn't matter?
You accuse the libs of cherry picking polls that support them, and then you turn around and do the same thing.

[Steve 'StatMan']

I know one thing that would probably be much, much, worse, at least in the short run, than all of this we're facing.

Offer Presidente Fox and the people of Mexico the opportunity to become the 51st thru ###th States of the Union.

[JustRalph]

JR,
It is a slippery slope. If I had told you a year ago the government was going to tap your phone lines and do some data mining, would you have believed me ? With proper management of fear there is nothing the government can do that will raise the ire of it's citizens.
Think about it.

How come that Slippery slope argument never holds water with you guys, when it comes to the 2nd Amendment?

[Lefty]

Tom, his speech says otherwise. Secure the borders. Double the Border patrol. Get the Nat'l guard to help.

[ljb]

How come that Slippery slope argument never holds water with you guys, when it comes to the 2nd Amendment?
sez who ?

[ljb]

And 77% favor securing the border, yet Bush is siding with the libs who are blocking this.
And 70% think Bush is doing a bad job.
I thought polls didn't matter?
You accuse the libs of cherry picking polls that support them, and then you turn around and do the same thing.
Tom,
Where do you get this, libs blocking this ? The repubs are in control.
Oh and I have been thinking Bush is doing a bad job since day 1. I did like his speech in the church after 9/11. The one when daddy Bush gave him an ok sign after the speech. But everything else has been a disaster.

[DJofSD]

Secure the borders.

I agree. Do that first. And if it takes a 2,000 mile fence then so be it.

Matter of fact, let's put a codicil in the new law: the same level of security measures currently in place at the international borders will be the same means and level used at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., Washington, D.C.

[Lefty]

Tom,
Where do you get this, libs blocking this ? The repubs are in control.
Oh and I have been thinking Bush is doing a bad job since day 1. I did like his speech in the church after 9/11. The one when daddy Bush gave him an ok sign after the speech. But everything else has been a disaster.

Once again, just because repubs have a SLIM majority doesn't mean they have carte blanche. Wish it were so, but due to structure of congress, libs can block a lot of things, and they do.

[Tom]

Tom, his speech says otherwise. Secure the borders. Double the Border patrol. Get the Nat'l guard to help.

His actions do not. Today, he aligned himself with the dems again. You called ME a knee jerker - HE is the one who is insiting on a comprehensive solutinon...in 2 friggin weeks. Need I remind you, there are already law on the books covering employers hiring illegals, there are tax fraud and evasin laws, we have an immigration policy - which he has flip floped on three straight years now - and we have a progam in place to allow temporary workers here. Also, in spite your acceptance of him doing nothing , HE is in charge of Justice and it is HISS job to enforce these law. His total incompetance has only made this problem much worse than it shold be. And he keep giving a wink and a nod to mexcians to keep on coming here. I don't give a rats ass how long this issue has been going on, it is HIS term, HIS problem, andHIs fault.
I am definatley voting, and campaigning heavily for dems this fall - we HAVE to stop this admistratin befreo it destroys this country - and the best way to do that is put vengefull dems in office - shade of 1995 - when the newts starngles the Clinton presidency. Work both way. Bush is a liar and a threat to natinal security like no other - he is the anti-chirst of politics - there is nothing good about him - he is WORSE than Bin Laden.

[Tom]

Tom,
Where do you get this, libs blocking this ? The repubs are in control.
Oh and I have been thinking Bush is doing a bad job since day 1. I did like his speech in the church after 9/11. The one when daddy Bush gave him an ok sign after the speech. But everything else has been a disaster.

Pay attention, L - the libs are blocking meaningful border security and insiting on amnesty. The house repubs are the ones with the right ideas.

[Tom]

Once again, just because repubs have a SLIM majority doesn't mean they have carte blanche. Wish it were so, but due to structure of congress, libs can block a lot of things, and they do.

They didn't block it in the house.

[Lefty]

Tom, you vote fot them dems. Be careful what you wish for.

[Lefty]

They didn't block it in the house.
Ididn't say they did. I said they are capable of blocking a lot of things. Such is our structure. Repubs need a bigger majority.

[chickenhead]

Ididn't say they did. I said they are capable of blocking a lot of things. Such is our structure. Repubs need a bigger majority.

Bush is against the House bill! What are they going to do with a bigger majority? Bush is against what they are trying to do! I didn't realize when you thought the repubs needed a supermajority...it was to override their own parties president!

[Tom]

Tom, you vote fot them dems. Be careful what you wish for.

What's the diff - if they don't have a super majority, what harm can they do?:lol:

[DJofSD]

Repubs need a bigger majority.

A bigger majority to do what? Do you really think they have the will or the balls to do what the people want? Hell no.

They fear they won't get re-elected. Look what is already happening. The RINOs are being turned out of office. It is just the beginning.

The darkest hour is just before the dawn.

[Lefty]

It's self evident. To drill for oil in Anwir off the coasts, utah, nev. Make tax cuts permanent, ss reform etc.

[ljb]

Pay attention, L - the libs are blocking meaningful border security and insiting on amnesty. The house repubs are the ones with the right ideas.
Tom,
Last year Bush's budget proposal to Congress would have provided enough money only to pay for 200 new border agents. This despite a 2004 law that required the addition of 2,000 agents a year.
And this month, the White house was standing firm agains lawmakers who wanted to divert more money to border protection and hurricane relief from a $ 67.6 billion White House request for Iraq and Afghanistan military operations. While this points mainly to the administration, we do have a rubber stamp congress and a non-vetoing President.
Think about it.

[Secretariat]

Lefty,

Will the real President Bush please stand up? English plus? He always has to spin it. I may not agree with Inhofe, but he at least has the guts to say what he means and not put a pollyanna slant in it.

From AP:

"Regardless of what the president says, what he is proposing is amnesty," said Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., the lawmaker who would lead House negotiators in any attempt to draft a compromise immigration bill later this year.

It is amnesty, "because it allows people who have broken the law to stay in the country," Sensenbrenner said of positions Bush staked out in his speech earlier in the week.

House legislation that passed last year over strenuous Democratic opposition would make all illegal immigrants subject to prosecution as felons.

In a conference call with reporters, Sensenbrenner said Bush had "basically turned his back" on a tough border security bill after requesting that certain provisions be included before House passage last year.

Senate opponents readied another lineup of changes for Thursday in hopes of chipping away at the immigration bill that appears likely for Senate passage next week. Among them is an amendment sponsored by Sen. James Inhofe (news, bio, voting record), R-Okla., that would make English the national language.

Inhofe's proposal provides some exceptions for election ballots, court interpreters and natural disaster assistance. The Senate bill already would require illegal immigrants to learn English as a condition of earning legal permanent residency, a step toward citizenship.

As governor of Texas, Bush proposed what he called "English plus," rather than English only. "

....

btw...for all those thinking I support democratic positions blindly, I happen to be in agreement with radical Republican Sensenbrenner on this. However, I am against the waste of money on a friggin fence. It'll be a huge budget expense for years to come as it'll constantly need support. I'd rather see hefty tolls coming in to the country on that 24 lane San Ysidro entrance. Make the issue profitable to us rather than a contunal expense to us. Backward thinking. If people want to gt ahead of the line, make them pay for it.

I do find this debate rather odd in lieu of globalization though. Just think of all that tax revenue that "would" have come into the country from US workers had we not exported all those paying jobs overseas.

[DJofSD]

I am against the waste of money on a friggin fence.

Well, you could not be more wrong. This represents a fundamental error on your part.

You agree there's a problem but yet you don't want to address the core aspect of the problem -- we can not control who you let come into the country.

What part of sovereignty don't you understand?

[Secretariat]

Well, you could not be more wrong. This represents a fundamental error on your part.

You agree there's a problem but yet you don't want to address the core aspect of the problem -- we can not control who you let come into the country.

What part of sovereignty don't you understand?

A fence will not stop anything. Heavy employer fines for hiring of illegals will stop the root cause. They come here for JOBS, and to benefit from our public programs. Otherwise they'll leave.

You don't need a fence "if" you prosecute employers hiring illegally. You don't need a fence "if" non-citizens do not benefit directly from soical programs.

I know that sounds simplistic, but that wil do the job.

1. Increase border security (primarily to stop drug trafficking - which bt the way can occur via underground tunnels which a fence doesn't stop).

2. Fine employers for hiring illegals (which isn't happening AT ALL)

3. Require proof of citizenship to benefit from Medicaid, Welfare, Food Stamps, and for children to benefit from Public Education.

4. Pass a law to not grant automatic citizenship to children born here if one of their parents is not a citizen. If a parent becomes a citizen then retroactively convert the children to citizenship.

These are simple things which don't cost a lot except in terms of employer enforcment, and they take away the incentives for those who want to come here. Killing them along the border isn't the way to go.

[Tom]

We need to militarize the border. mexico is a hostile nation.
They export drugs here and import our money from illegals.
Comparing the supposed threat of Iraq to the real threat of mexico, i cannot justify keeping troops there and not putting them on the border, or better yet, in mexico to establish a demilitarized zone.
And yes, ultimately an effective fence/wall/mine filed apporoach is needed.
Once we stop the bleeding, we can address all the other issues. Like all the existing law Bush' justice department is ignoring.

And what the hell good will an unarmed, no arrest power guard do there anywhay - they see illegal running across a field and yell "Stop or I'll shoot - your picture!" :bang:

And George W,. Clueless - where is he on this threat to sue us over putting our troops any damn place we fell ike it? He right there the other day to cover his own ass on the USA Today story,m and right there when his swweetheart deal wtih Dubai was quesitoned, and right there to pat Brownie on the back a daty befreo he fired him, and right there to call the minutemen vigilantes....but on this.....Bush 43, where are you? Oo, oo, oo.

And besides, how if the national guard going to find illegals - they couldn 't find BUSH when he was IN the guard! :lol:

[Lefty]

hcap, it'd the libs that are spinning. Earned citicizenship is not amnesty. So what's their proposal to deal with 11 million or so illegals. Libs having it both ways, they attend the rallies and support them and then get on the Pres for trying to effect a solution. Hillary shouted at their rallies and gave them her full support and a week later was making speeches the other way.
DJ, We need the fence, you're right, and the Pres thinks we need the fence too.

[Ponyplayr]

And besides, how if the national guard going to find illegals - they couldn 't find BUSH when he was IN the guard! :lol:[/QUOTE]
Tom...you're killing me :D :D

[skate]

isbets;

yes, that is part of the problem. i'm sure everyone here knows that the court plays a big part.
George can't just go off and deport anyone seeming fit.
got other laws to look into, the courts system and judges prevent others from doing a good job.
and, i do know that big business and our gov., would like, very much to keep the influx of cheap labor, you bet.

[ljb]

wait a minute, I just got a brainstorm: :jump:
What do the neocons/corporate leaders fear even more then Al queda and Osama ? Taxes ! That's it, just put a hefty tax on every illegal employee. That will cut off the jobs immediately. :lol:

[Tom]

hcap, it'd the libs that are spinning. Earned citicizenship is not amnesty. That is exactly what it is - amnesty. They come here illegally and get rewarded - what the hell else is amnesty?
Pay a small fine, attend and English class - note - not learn to speak English, just attend a class. This is an insult to every legal immigrant.

[Tom]

wait a minute, I just got a brainstorm: :jump:


That was a fart.

And you know very well the dems are so gung ho for amnesty becasue they view all these illegals as votes - someting dems cannot get enough of from citizens. Correct me if I am wrong, but so far, I have not seen one dem sttand and say we need to give these people chance for citizenship, and oh, yeah, they all have to be paid minimum wage? BOTH sides are looking at htis as more votes and cheap, slave labor.

And what is Fat Head Ted' plan to have enough SS money left to pay for this estimated 100-200 million new immigrants who will come here and start getting checks after not having put one cent in the pot?

The stupidy and greed on both sides of the aisle is disgusting.

[lsbets]

The Senate got one thing right today:

"In an impassioned debate laden with symbolism, the Senate voted 63-34 Thursday to declare English the national language as it continued to debate legislation that would put millions of illegal immigrants on track to U.S. citizenship.

Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., denounced the amendment as racist and joined other opponents in warning that it could undercut long-established civil rights law. The amendment's lead sponsor, Sen. James Inhofe, R-Okla., bristled at the assertion, saying the proposal would unify the nation's increasingly diverse population and wouldn't dismantle existing legal protections. "

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/nation/14613558.htm

If anyone has a list of all 34 who voted against this bill, not just Reid, I'd love to see the full list. Someone mentioned the race card in another thread, it looks like old Harry pulled it out today. Yeah, its real racist to affirm the obvious - the language of the United States is English.

[Lefty]

That is exactly what it is - amnesty. They come here illegally and get rewarded - what the hell else is amnesty?
Pay a small fine, attend and English class - note - not learn to speak English, just attend a class. This is an insult to every legal immigrant.
It won't be that easy and I don't see any better solutions from anybody. I don't like it but until I hear a better idea...

[JustRalph]

Someone mentioned the race card in another thread, it looks like old Harry pulled it out today. Yeah, its real racist to affirm the obvious - the language of the United States is English.

¡Lsbets, usted mancha bajo abajo tejano Militarista! Usted podría dar obviamente una mierda acerca de los sentimientos de mis hermanos marrones que andan con pasos pesados por la tierra baldía de la del sudoeste cada noche. ¡Usted está en fanfarrón grande que debe aprender mi idioma porque esta tierra pertenecidos al mexicano largo antes usted Gringo tomó. asshole .........You! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[lsbets]

JR - here is the Babel Fish translation:

Lsbets, you stain down under tejano Militarista! You could obvious give an excrement about the feelings of my brown brothers who walk with heavy steps by the uncultivated Earth of the one of the southwest every night. You are in fanfarrón great that must learn my language because this earth belonged to the Mexican length before Foreign you took asshole......... You!

Gotta love translation engines! :lol: :lol:

[JustRalph]

JR - here is the Babel Fish translation:

Gotta love translation engines! :lol: :lol:

I used freetranslation.com.......... these things are fun though.........

Here is what I wrote:
"Lsbets, you dirty low down Militaristic Texan! You obviously could give a shit about the feelings of my brown brothers who tramp through the wasteland of the southwest every night. You are one big blowhard who should learn my language because this land belonged to the Mexican long before you Gringo's took over..........You asshole! "

close?

[lsbets]

Its close, my version was slighly more elegant and poetic ..........

[Lefty]

lsbets, glad the Senate got it right. Harry is sooo predictable. Now watch for many more nuttycrats come out agin it too.

[Tom]

Dingy Harry would ike the official language to be liberish.

One this is for sure - every one of those 34 traitiors need to be targeted and dealt with. We do not need SOBs like that.
Imagine - anything BUT English! It boggles the mind what vote-whores the dems are.

[boxcar]

He's going to end up DOUBLING the border patrol. He is going to get the National Guard to help out. He realizes you can't deport 11-12 million people. He is the only Pres since Reagan to even TRY to address the problem, and all he gets is crap. Most of you deserve Hillary in 08! Phooey!

That is one lame excuse! We "can't deport 11-12 million people? Geesh, Lefty, you''ve evolved into another apologist for the Party of Stupid!

The U.S. Government has screwed up big time on its immigration policy and most especially in the area of law enforcement, and the best you and the idiot in the WH can say is, Well...we screwed things up so badly all these decades that now the only "reasonable fix" is to give the lawbreakers amnesty!? Because in the end, this is what it's going to amount to.

The Moron talks about how the illegals will go to the "back of the line". Yeah, right! And just what line would that be? Certainly not the line the law-abiding foreigners are standing in to get processed legally into the country! Because if it were that line, they illegals would be standing on their other side of our border!

What happened to the Bush who always maintained that we're a nation of laws -- that we're a nation who abides by the "rule of law"? How convenient that noble idea of the "rule of law" gets trampled underfoot by all the illegals crossing our borders daily -- not to mention by the spineless, gutless politicians who are seeking to expand their polticial base!

Q on poll should have been : a good comprehensive prgm that will help start to solve this complicated problem.

You're delusional, Lefty!

Boxcar

[boxcar]

A fence will not stop anything. Heavy employer fines for hiring of illegals will stop the root cause. They come here for JOBS, and to benefit from our public programs. Otherwise they'll leave.

Fences are working fine in Israel. They're suffering considerably fewer casualties these days.

And if you don't like fences, how 'bout another Great Wall. Has worked fine in China, too!

What this country needs are CAN DO leaders. You "can't do" deafeatists are a dime a dozen!

Boxcar
P.S. But I'm in favor of also implementing the things you suggest.

[Lefty]

box, can't you discuss anything without the namecalling? I'm no apoligist for anyone. I'm practical. Do you think we can deport 11-12 million? What about the U.S born children?

And yes, you're quite right, fences work and bush is on board with that.

[ljb]

That was a fart.

And you know very well the dems are so gung ho for amnesty becasue they view all these illegals as votes - someting dems cannot get enough of from citizens. Correct me if I am wrong, but so far, I have not seen one dem sttand and say we need to give these people chance for citizenship, and oh, yeah, they all have to be paid minimum wage? BOTH sides are looking at htis as more votes and cheap, slave labor.

And what is Fat Head Ted' plan to have enough SS money left to pay for this estimated 100-200 million new immigrants who will come here and start getting checks after not having put one cent in the pot?

The stupidy and greed on both sides of the aisle is disgusting.
ok. Let's have employers of illegals pay double ss on them. Again this tax thing might work.
Speaking of Fat Heads in the Senate, what about cat killer Frist ? We have outrageous gas prices, rising health care costs, continued deaths in Iraq, and this immigration problem. What does he want the Senate to work on during this "election" season ? A constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. Talk about a waste of government resources.

[JustRalph]

Its close, my version was slighly more elegant and poetic ..........


Well, it is the language of Love,..................................























and Big Burrito's

[Tom]

....What does he want the Senate to work on during this "election" season ? A constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. Talk about a waste of government resources.

100% are here - this guy is on my list of must leaves. In any event, it would never pass the 75% of states. It is a ploy - what they are so good at in the senate. And you thought the Great Kreskin was a master of slight of hand tricks! The senate is a breeding grounds of stupidity, and IMHO, we only need a house - a senate is just ridiculous - California and rhode Island area equally represented. Our founding fathers did a great job, but this idea was not thier best.

[Tom]

Well, it is the language of Love,..................................
and Big Burrito's


How do you say gringo in english?

[boxcar]

box, can't you discuss anything without the namecalling? I'm no apoligist for anyone. I'm practical. Do you think we can deport 11-12 million? What about the U.S born children?

And yes, you're quite right, fences work and bush is on board with that.

Yes, we can,if we have the mind to do it.

Oh,yeah...and the poor little kiddies who were birthed by illegals on this side of the border? Deport them too! As far as I'm concerned the kids are just as illegal as their parents who B&E'd to get into this country!

Here's the deal, Lefty, in a nutshell: The politicians in this country are responsible for the state of affairs with this illegal immigration issue. They are the ones who allowed this situation to get out of control -- who buried their heads in the sand all these many years (just like they have with the energy situation). Now, the U.S. politicians must pay the piper -- not the American people, nor the foreigners who play by the rules of law to enter this coutnry in order to live and work here. The politicians are morally and legally obligated to do right by this these two groups of people -- and not pander to the illegal aliens.

Bush boils my blood when I listen to him pandering to these lawbreakers. Talking about their "dignitiy", and talking about them fulfilling an important American need by doing jobs we Americans supposedly won't do. He all but makes them out to be some kind of heroes. Yet, when a group of AMERICANS like the Minutemen come along and and do the job that, evidently, the U.S. government has never wanted to do, Bush labels them "vigilantes"! They're the bad guys! And in your blind loyality to Bush, you can't see anything wrong with this picture!? You can't see that Bush's priorities are a wee bit skewed?

Boxcar

[skate]

Boxey;

yes, skewed and screwed. it took quite a while to get the needed attention.
and now lets see how long before the attention fades.

we've had this problem coming from all over the world, taking the workers jobs.
and at the top of the scale, judges, ceos, mayors, governers, teachers are taking the working peple to the cleaners.

[Tom]

Well, one thing's for sure - those big protest marches got attention! hehehe.
Be careful what you wish for - they pissed off a lot of people, who are not going to forget.

Now, McCain - whose brain apparently dried up over the winter, has introduced an ammendment that will allow illegals to collect SS, even if they qualiifed using forged documents - a felony! Goos show, Jonny - you dipstick. I really hope you run again in2008 - I can't wait to watch you get destroyed in public. What a friggin useless jerk this idoit is.

And Bush - let's not forget his latest LIE. He says the raod to citizenship will put all these millions of illegal at the end of the line. Uh huh. To do that, he has do one of two things: deport them ALL and not let any back in until all trying to legally come are here. or, bring all of them here now.

Whenever Bush speaks, you have to look below the surface, for truth is not his forte.

[ljb]

McCain's brain dried up when he let Bush plant that big slobbery kiss on his bald head.

[Tom]

Don't you ever offer anything intelligent? *sigh* I suppose consistency should be appreciated - stay down there.

[Tom]

Dingy Harry had the balls to stand up on the floor of the senate and call making English the official language - RACISM!

How low can this dirt bag sink?

I think we should all wrtie our reps and demand this moron be censured for race baitng - this guy is truly pathetic. Is this all the libs have to offer - the race card?

[ljb]

Don't you ever offer anything intelligent? *sigh* I suppose consistency should be appreciated - stay down there.
Tom,
Not sure but, you wouldn't be displaying your latent homosexual desires again would youi ? *sigh*

[Tom]

How come we never see those Taco Bell commercials with the "run for the border" theme? :lol:

[DJofSD]

How come we never see those Taco Bell commercials with the "run for the border" theme?

Actually, some one tried to do exactly that a day ago here in San Diego. Got his ass shot dead.

[Suff]

Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.


Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:

I lift my lamp beside the golden door.













That is what the big lady holding the candle says.

I don't care for most of the provisions, such as the 2 year, 2 to 5 year and 11+ year bullshit. What a paper trail, govt beaucracy that's going to create. But hey,,, The Broad says to send us your wretched refuse..and we got ourselves 11 or 12 million of them as of 7 oclock tonight.

Welcome Senor.

[Tom]

Not yet - the House still has sanity.
What a tremendous slap in the face to those who have come here or are trying to come here legally. No matter what Bush says, it is a lie that these folks will go to the end of the line - they are already ahead of everyone trying to do it right way.

The senate has disgraced America - they have sanctioned a class of untouchables - of slaves to be exploited.

Will the senate vote to mandate minimum wages for these people?
Hahaha.

Dark day in US history.

[Tom]

You can kiss your SS goodbye - Bush and his senate croonies just gave it away, along with medicare. Not content with bankrupting us with unlimited and stupid spending, he is speeding up the decline of this country by giving away our money to people who have no right to it.
God, I hope bird flu hurries up and gets here - and lands in DC or Crawford!
We will never survive three more years of this poop!

[Lefty]

This is Senates bill, not Bush's and it still has to go to the house. I don't think that stupid provision that all the illegals get ss passed and that's Mckanes b.s.

[Tom]

This the bill Bush and his new party conjured up - it is the knee jerk he suddenly insisted we have by Memorial Day. This is exactly what Bush negotiated to get. He sent Rove to the House to twist arm and get them on board and they sent his sorry ass packing.

[Secretariat]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/18/AR2006061800613.html

Politics, 9/11 Cited in Lax Enforcement
By Spencer S. Hsu and Kari LydersenWashington Post Staff Writers

Monday, June 19, 2006; Page A01

"The Bush administration, which is vowing to crack down on U.S. companies that hire illegal workers, virtually abandoned such employer sanctions before it began pushing to overhaul U.S. immigration laws last year, government statistics show.

Between 1999 and 2003, work-site enforcement operations were scaled back 95 percent by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which subsequently was merged into the Homeland Security Department. The number of employers prosecuted for unlawfully employing immigrants dropped from 182 in 1999 to four in 2003, and fines collected declined from $3.6 million to $212,000, according to federal statistics.

In 1999, the United States initiated fines against 417 companies. In 2004, it issued fine notices to three."

Who woulda thought Clinton would be over a hundred times tougher on companies hiring illegals than GW..but there it is. GW does it again. The man has no clue.

[Tom]

We need Newt.

He is:
1. Tough on immigration
2. Not a democrat

Curious, though about these two fine writers - did they do a story today about the brutal murder/mutilation of two Americans at the hands of sub-human mad dogs, and are they advocating a serious response?
Or is it JBAU to Bash Bush today?

[lsbets]

Dallas County announced today they are sending a bill to Mexico c/o Vincente Fox for $15 million due for medical care provided to illegal immigrants at Parkland Hospital. :jump: :jump:

[Tom]

When are we going to grow a set and start shooting these invading bastards as they come across? It is time to send them a message loud and clear - come here and we will kill you! Then do it.

[Ponyplayr]

We need Newt.

He is:
1. Tough on immigration
2. Not a democrat

Curious, though about these two fine writers - did they do a story today about the brutal murder/mutilation of two Americans at the hands of sub-human mad dogs, and are they advocating a serious response?
Or is it JBAU to Bash Bush today?
I would vote for Newt two times. I still have some democrat in me:rolleyes:

[DJofSD]

This entire immigration situation reminds me of Star Wars I.

Bush is Chancellor Valorum and deserves a vote of no confidence.

[Tom]

Interesting - one of the 7 people arrested on terror chrages in Miami tonight - an illegal immigrant! :bang:

[Lefty]

This entire immigration situation reminds me of Star Wars I.

Bush is Chancellor Valorum and deserves a vote of no confidence.
I guess Hillary more to your liking. One week she's telling a group of Mexicans that "you are the people that clean our rooms, take care of our kids, etc."
The next week she's hollering for better defense of the border. I guess it's nice when you can argue either side depending on where you are.

[DJofSD]

I guess Hillary more to your liking.

Think again. If there were a queen of/from the dark side, she'd be it.

[Lefty]

Think again. If there were a queen of/from the dark side, she'd be it.
Fair enough.

[highnote]

[b]The U.S. Government has screwed up big time on its immigration policy .....

Boxcar


Native American governments screwed up bigger time on their immigration policies. :D
.
.
.
.
.

[DJofSD]

Native American governments screwed up bigger time on their immigration policies.

You mean they shouldn't have crossed the Bering straight?

[highnote]

You mean they shouldn't have crossed the Bering straight?


:lol:

That's not what I was thinking, but that's a good one!

[freeneasy]

1) under no circumstance can leagal citizenship be granted to any person that cannot prove that they have leagally immigrated to america

2) under no circumstance can an illeagal immigant be granted a social security number

3) all illeagal immigrants must apply for and carry an issued form of identification deeming their statis as an illeagal immigrant and must supply required forms of identification from their own country in order to apply for for this issued form of u.s. identification

4) all illeagal immigrants must present this identifcation when applying for jobs, drivers licence, insurence, benifits etc. and cannot be considered for any privledge or privledges without this form of identification

5) illeagal immigrants will not have the right to own real estate

6) illeagal immigrants will not have the right to own and operate their own bussiness until citizenship has been granted. fines, deportations will occur otherwise

7) illeagal immigrants cannot apply for a drivers licence until they can prove that they have been in this country a minimum of 7 years

8) illeagal immigrants that apply for and receive a drivers licence must carry and show proof of maximum, not minimum, insurence coverage for injuries to all passengers in all vehicles involed in any accident as well as carry and show maximum insurence coverage for any damage to all vehicles involved in a collision

9) illeagal immigrants hired for work must pay all taxes and social securitiy. fines and deportations will occur otherwise

10) illeagal immigrants cannot qualify for equal opportunity employment

11) illegal immigrants cannot qualify for social security benifits until they have become citizens of the u.s.

12) illeagal immigrants cannot receive state, federal and local benifits from such programs as welfare, food stamps, medical, medicare, medicade, rent control, private schooling or education for their childran

13) illeagal immigants cannot qualify for state, federal or local funding programs that assist in and loan monies for the purpose of buying or starting a bussiness, to buy real estate for the purpose of ownership and/or resale.

14) childran of illeagal immigrants born in america will not be given automatic citizenship but rather must apply for it and can only apply for it after the age of 21

15) illeagal immigrants cannot join the armed forces until citizenship is recognized

16) illeagal immigrants, with childran that are born in the u.s. or brought to the u.s, that enter their childran in u.s. school system must pay for child that has been entered in the u.s. school system with a monthly fee

it aint no joke folks, these people will burrow in, infest, overpopulate, financially bleed, break and trash the town you live, some more so then others so keep watch and vote for the protection, the safegaurding and the security of your future

well thats my 16 centavos worth.
keep you eye on watch

[Tom]

So what was so hard about that?
Are you a rocket scinetist?
Are you Einstein...no, he's dead.

100 overpaid, bribe taking gin swilling senators haven't been ablt to figure that out. There's your value in a law degree!

I would negotiate a couple of those, but I see nothing unfair, racist, greedy or impossible about any of them.

So you run, you get my vote. Seriously.
I even know a place in Ohio where I could vote twice for you! ;)