Interstate Horse Racing Act May Be changed

[fouroneone]

They want to take away simulcast signal control from the horsemen and give it to the jocks!!!! Thoughts?????

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=33479

[cj]

The whole thing is ludicrous. If I decide to become a professional gambler, am I going to get my medical expenses covered?

Funny they fail to mention that the Jockey's Guild is in such dire need because they were dumb enough to allow themselves to be fleeced of millions.

[Valuist]

Jockeys are independent contractors. They chose the profession. If they don't like things the way things are, they should look for another line of work.

BTW, I wonder how that country music career is going for Shane Sellers :lol:

[BIG49010]

Shane needs them to raise the weight limit to 150 at this time !:lol:

[fouroneone]

This would wreak havoc on the PEN, MNR and CT signals

[Tom]

Should go the tracks themselves. THEY put on the show.

[Indulto]

Originally posted by CJ:
The whole thing is ludicrous. If I decide to become a professional gambler, am I going to get my medical expenses covered?What is the likelihood of a professional gambler being crushed by a 1000 pound object?
Funny they fail to mention that the Jockey's Guild is in such dire need because they were dumb enough to allow themselves to be fleeced of millions.Just like all those “dumb” Enron employees.

CJ,
Is there something about figure-making that either leads one to disrespect jockeys or at least de-sensitizes one to the inevitability of their getting injured?

It doesn’t make any sense to me to add yet another obstacle to negotiations among tracks, horsemen, and government, but something does have to be done to address the medical/disability/life insurance issue fairly. Isn’t it the willingness of jockeys to risk injury and quality-of-life that enables us to enjoy and/or profit from the game?
Originally posted by valuist:
Jockeys are independent contractors. They chose the profession. If they don't like things the way things are, they should look for another line of work.
Valuist,
I suppose it’s possible that tracks could obtain replacement jockeys just like major league football got replacement players. Then instead of “griping” about trainer “juice”, Steward eyesight/judgement, and published handicapper opinions, we could focus our attention on rider deficiencies like absence of pace judgment, lack of nerve, or inability to control high-strung, unpredictable animals. Sure, some would improve after a while, but how soon (and frequently) would another Shoemaker, Pincay, Arcaro, Baeza, Bailey, Velazquez, Stevens, or Cordero manifest themselves? Are you prepared for an increase in the uncertainty of jockey competence as a handicapping variable?

[Valuist]

Indulto-

Do you remember the fall 2004 meet at Churchill? The one with the jockeys strike? Amazing thing........racing went on and there was no huge scandals. Was there constant complaining over rides? I don't remember hearing any more complaints than normal. I wouldn't compare this in any way to a strike in MLB or NFL, where the talent drop off was far more significant.

[Ron]

The horses don't strike.

[kid4rilla]

Sure, some would improve after a while, but how soon (and frequently) would another Shoemaker, Pincay, Arcaro, Baeza, Bailey, Velazquez, Stevens, or Cordero manifest themselves? Are you prepared for an increase in the uncertainty of jockey competence as a handicapping variable?

The answer.....Very soon, possibly immediately. What makes the jocks you mention hall of famers is their abilities, relative to the abilities of those they compete(d) against. If all of the best jockeys left tomorrow, the second/third tier players would fortuitously pick up their prime mounts and become the top jocks right away.

I agree with CJ......If you don't like how it's going, find something else to do. What else can a 110 lb man do in sport that can be so lucrative?

[Snag]

Would this not be the same thing as an actor demanding a percentage from each theater that showed their movie? It doesn't make sense to me that they have a basis for demanding any part of the revenue stream from the track. Addressing the medical/disability/life insurance issue is totally different. If the track is forced to pay for this, the tracks should demand a seat on the board of the Jockey Guild to protect their interests. We all know that would never happen.

[Indulto]

The answer.....Very soon, possibly immediately. What makes the jocks you mention hall of famers is their abilities, relative to the abilities of those they compete(d) against. If all of the best jockeys left tomorrow, the second/third tier players would fortuitously pick up their prime mounts and become the top jocks right away.

I agree with CJ......If you don't like how it's going, find something else to do. What else can a 110 lb man do in sport that can be so lucrative?K4,
I believe it was valuist rather than CJ who suggested alternative occupations.

I agree that there will be always be a small tier of riders more successful than their competition, but I am not sure we or the horsemen would be satisfied with their lesser skills. Besides, the successful jockeys are not the ones the legislators are concerned with protecting.
Originally posted by valuist:
Do you remember the fall 2004 meet at Churchill? The one with the jockeys strike? Amazing thing........racing went on and there was no huge scandals. Was there constant complaining over rides? I don't remember hearing any more complaints than normal. I wouldn't compare this in any way to a strike in MLB or NFL, where the talent drop off was far more significant.valuist,
I doubt CDI is willing to risk a repeat and only a handful of jockeys were part of a limited action taken against a single operator. Hopefully, there will not be another labor action of any sort, and certainly not one of greater scope which would definitely settle our difference of opinion.

My guess is that the Interstate Horseracing Act modification is a bluff to force those track operators to do what some legislators and many other concerned people across the industry and fan base think they should be doing.

[Valuist]

K4,
valuist,
I doubt CDI is willing to risk a repeat and only a handful of jockeys were part of a limited action taken against a single operator.


Actually the overwhelming majority of riders at CD in November of 2004 struck. There was very few journeymen who crossed the line. I think Joe Johnson was one. I definitely remember that Bejarano, Sellers, Albarado and Borel did not ride. Day may have ridden a few of the days but it was mostly exercise riders who took the mounts.

[cj]

I do not want to pay jockey's health insurance. They should pay their own. They could do what most people do, and deduct it from their earnings. Wow, what a novel idea. That was my point. I have nothing against jockeys, I respect what they do.

But, to be honest, I don't care who is riding a horse I bet. I don't think it is that important of a factor. I never have, and I never will. Of course some are better than others, and if you bet the best ones, you will pay a premium for doing so.

[Indulto]

I do not want to pay jockey's health insurance. They should pay their own. They could do what most people do, and deduct it from their earnings. Wow, what a novel idea. That was my point. I have nothing against jockeys, I respect what they do.CJ,
I appreciate the clarification. I wasn’t sure a cleverly-deployed smiley face variation was appropriate to terminate my “figure-making” line. ;)

I don’t know how else to explain my position, but IMO the difference between our paying for all our own insurance premiums (and then writing it off against expenses?), and the jockeys doing the same, is that there is a much likelier possibility that they would have a catastrophic incident, and while the more successful jockeys can afford such high risk policies, the overwhelming majority cannot.

I would suggest the possibility of the most successful jockeys contributing along with the horsemen and track operators so that everyone whose business benefited from the risks taken by those in far lower income brackets paid the freight, but it would bring Lefty over from off-topic to call me a new-dealer, socialist or worse. :D
But, to be honest, I don't care who is riding a horse I bet. I don't think it is that important of a factor. I never have, and I never will. Of course some are better than others, and if you bet the best ones, you will pay a premium for doing so.A perfectly reasonable and probably profitable viewpoint, but how does it relate to injured riders receiving adequate insurance coverage for professional risks taken for the financial and entertainment benefit of others and, hopefully -- but only possibly -- themselves? :confused:

[PaceAdvantage]

Just like all those “dumb” Enron employees.

The two situations aren't even remotely similar. The "dumb" Enron employees had NO CONTROL over who or what went on with upper management that led to the downfall of that company.

The jockeys, on the other hand, who COMPRISED a LOT of the upper management of the guild, had far more control of the situation, and they screwed up royally. Some of them now sheepishly admit (on TV no less) their lack of even a high school-level education probably contributed much to the fiasco that has become the Jockey's Guild.

[Indulto]

The two situations aren't even remotely similar. The "dumb" Enron employees had NO CONTROL over who or what went on with upper management that led to the downfall of that company.

The jockeys, on the other hand, who COMPRISED a LOT of the upper management of the guild, had far more control of the situation, and they screwed up royally. Some of them now sheepishly admit (on TV no less) their lack of even a high school-level education probably contributed much to the fiasco that has become the Jockey's Guild.Gertmanian obviously had his supporters/henchman even as Lay had Fastow and others. Opposition was effectively silenced in both cases. My point was not that the structure and details were identical, but that people who were not stupid trusted their management and were betrayed. And apparently their understanding that things already weren't going well is what got Gertmanian's foot in the door. He was able to fool well-educated people at Pepperdine; why not less-educated jockeys?

[skate]

you could take the NFL, NBA or AMerican or National league. replace everyone and not (really)miss a bit.

it would just take very little time to adjust to your new heroes.
any slight difference would soon go without significance.

another "Babe" (well, maybe not "the Babe") would come along, would mater not whatever the record.