The odds must be crazy

[lukeelisa]

Has anybody read Len Friedman and Len Ragizons book "The odds must be crazy"?I was wondering if it tells you how Len comes up with his numbers without having to buy his sheets?

[pandy]

I really liked the book but he doesn't tell you have to make the numbers. But the books is entertaining and he gives you good insights on how he used the sheets to win bets. He shows how he doesn't just play the best number, but he looks for patterns, and also uses common sense to predict when a horse is expected to improve on his number (for instance, 3rd lifetime start after showing improved speed in 2nd start).

Pandy

[kitts]

I read it some time back. It was way better than expected. Entertaining too

[BetHorses!]

Very good book. Must read

[Zaf]

Enjoyable Read. Great stuff on form cycles !

Z

[Tom]

Very good book. I'm sure Andy will chime in - he has talked about it a lot.

[hracingplyr]

hi guys there is a book out there that jerry brown talks about in his archives site, that got him going on how to make numbers the title is

Consistent Handicapping Profits

Author E.W. Donaldson

problem is the book was published in 1936 i believe. I would love to get my hands on a copy, searched alot of sites but cannot find it. This guy was way ahead of the game.

bob

[QuarterCrack]

hi guys there is a book out there that jerry brown talks about in his archives site, that got him going on how to make numbers the title is

Consistent Handicapping Profits

Author E.W. Donaldson

problem is the book was published in 1936 i believe. I would love to get my hands on a copy, searched alot of sites but cannot find it. This guy was way ahead of the game.

bob


I've been trying to find that book for YEARS.

[kev]

I don't think he said it got him going making numbers. Jerry Brown had worked for Ragozin for years, that's how he got his start. JB thinking that Len might have got some of their stuff from this book. Hard book to find.

[bigmack]

kev still a heck of a call with lemons a while back. oddly enough just called The Gamblers Bookshop in Vegas and they don't have it so I checked AZon and they've got it:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0316604976/sr=1-1/qid=1147296833/ref=sr_1_1/002-4149886-6533601?%5Fencoding=UTF8

[peakpros]

good read...recommended....

[kev]

Thanks, I was actually talking about the older book written in the 30's, I think it's called Consistent Handicapping Profits

Author E.W. Donaldson

[andicap]

Yes, I highly recommend the Ragozin book even if you don't 'use the sheets (I don't).
Gives you ideas on how to evaluate form cycles -- I don't use every one of them but it still gets you looking at races in a different way.

[bigmack]

might have a line on the 36 publication of Consistent Handicapping Profits
Author E.W. Donaldson I'll keep you posted

[BillW]

kev still a heck of a call with lemons a while back. oddly enough just called The Gamblers Bookshop in Vegas and they don't have it so I checked AZon and they've got it:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0316604976/sr=1-1/qid=1147296833/ref=sr_1_1/002-4149886-6533601?%5Fencoding=UTF8

Just a caveat guys, I ordered this book before the first of the year and they couldn't come up with it. They don't (or didn't anyway) have it in stock but were relying on their network to come up with it. After 3 or 4 postponements from them I finally cancelled the order....

From Amazon:

"We are sorry to report that we will not be able to obtain the following
item from your order:

Len Ragozin, et al "The Odds Must Be Crazy : Beating the Races with
the Man Who Revolutionized Handicapping"

Though we had expected to be able to send this item to you, we've
since found that it is not available from any of our sources at this
time."

Bill

[kev]

Thanks Bigmack.

[NYPlayer]

I have to say it's a fascinating book. No, it doesn't give away any of the charts, but it does tell you what goes into the numbers, and the techniques they use to come up with extremely precise figures. Of course, you can take the essential concepts and build your own system, but when you realize that the Ragozin organization has been at it for 50 years and that they have the most extensive network of observers gathering live data, you may wonder if it's worth the effort.

The best thing about the sheets is learning the patterns. I've been using the sheets for about two years, and I can say that the most important lesson I've learned is that you should never bet a horse based on the race he just ran. You use the patterns to predict a decline or an upcoming peak effort.

If you can't find the book at any conventional source, I'd visit their web-site and contact them directly.

Good Luck.

[kev]

It is a great book. On their site is says this about the book. "CURRENTLY SOLD OUT.
A NEW PRINTING IS SCHEDULED IN THE FUTURE."

[bigmack]

might have a line on the 36 publication of Consistent Handicapping Profits
Author E.W. Donaldson I'll keep you posted
Still working I've got folk throughout North America snoooping around for it. I have faith that we'll find it and to Kev it goes.

[Dave Schwartz]

I believe my wife has one in her Amazon Book Store (although it may have "fallen off").

I will check later this morning and report back.


Dave Schwartz

[Dave Schwartz]

Beth does have a single copy of The Odds Must BE Crazy by Len Ragozin. It is in absolutely NEW condition.

Her price is $50 plus $4 shipping.

If you wish to purchase, please send an email directly to her at:

BethSchwartz@HorseStreet.com

Remember there is only one such book.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[banacek]

I've been trying to find that book for YEARS.

There is one on abebooks for $13.69

http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=678330960&searchurl=sts%3Dt%26y%3D15%26tn%3DODDS%2BMUST%2BBE %2BCRAZY%26x%3D70

[Dave Schwartz]

Apparently, Amazon has several listed as well. They just don't actually have the book.


Dave

[rrbauer]

I read the book and threw it away....now it's on the market for $50...and I'm pretty sure that I paid less than $10! Maybe there is something to this "collectable's business" after all.

It seemed to me like just one more of Ragozin's ego-rants.

[Indulto]

I read the book and threw it away....now it's on the market for $50...and I'm pretty sure that I paid less than $10! Maybe there is something to this "collectable's business" after all.

It seemed to me like just one more of Ragozin's ego-rants.rrb,
Seems to me like as many people swear by him as at him. I don't drink the Kool-Aid, so I kan't pick the boxkar kandidates, but I'll sell my kopy for karloads of Kopeks if I can get Friedman to autograph it for me.

I don't know if the ideas were Ragozin's, Donaldson's, or J. E. Hoover's, but Brown klaims to have kornered the on-line market for the koncept. Kan all those
kombined sheets-type product kustomers be wrong? :D

[Dave Schwartz]

Indulto,

I just have to ask...

What is with your "K's?" OCB ?


Dave

[Indulto]

Indulto,

I just have to ask...

What is with your "K's?" OCB ?


DaveDS,
At the very least.

tlg's kaustic kommentary has driven me krazy.

I'm having a brake down

Please help me.

[Dave Schwartz]

LOL - Okay. As you were.

[kev]

You da man bigmack.

[QuarterCrack]

There is one on abebooks for $13.69

http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=678330960&searchurl=sts%3Dt%26y%3D15%26tn%3DODDS%2BMUST%2BBE %2BCRAZY%26x%3D70

I was talking about the E.W. Donaldson book from the 1930s. That's the book I've been trying to find for years.

Although after reading this thread, I'm intrigued by the Ragozin book too.

[Tom]

http://www.alibris.com/search/search.cfm

[robert99]

E W Donaldson was writing on this in the thirties at about the same time the UK inventor of speed ratings, Phil Bull, was developing his methods. You can obtain PB's biography at:

http://www.gamblingbooks.co.uk/horseracing/philbullthebiography.html

PB (although a communist) became a £ millionaire from racing in the far off days when there were 4 dollars to the £, and went on to found the Timeform organisation.

Ragozin was ironically a left wing journalist who had the determination to develop and apply these methods long before fellow journalist A Beyer picked up the thread. I enjoyed his book but I did not get the impression that there was anything complicated used in the mathematical sense - LR just used what worked (and nothing else) when others were all into class ratings etc.

UK has the advantage that every horse to run in UK has a universal weight/class rating assigned so that you know what class of horse it is on whatever track it runs. You can then develop reliable standard times for every UK track based on what time a class 100 horse would achieve on good going carrying 9 stone for each distance run at the track. Time + Form = Timeform.

robert

[Gary Geigercounter]

rrb,
Seems to me like as many people swear by him as at him. I don't drink the Kool-Aid, so I kan't pick the boxkar kandidates, but I'll sell my kopy for karloads of Kopeks if I can get Friedman to autograph it for me.

I don't know if the ideas were Ragozin's, Donaldson's, or J. E. Hoover's, but Brown klaims to have kornered the on-line market for the koncept. Kan all those
kombined sheets-type product kustomers be wrong? :D

Man, this post reminded me of reading The Cold Six Thousand by James Ellroy.

[banacek]

For those of you still looking, here's a copy of Odds must be Crazy on ebay - starting bid $2.88

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8815497480&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1

[robert99]

GG,

Surely you don't mean the rapid-fire, staccato writing, each sentence barely a few words long. Possibly the most original, least pandering, fiction ever read. You have to meet KKK more than half-way on this one, it takes quite an effort to make it through the first .... or so, after which you get somewhat used to the disorienting feeling of reading this kind of prose? :D

[Gary Geigercounter]

GG,

Surely you don't mean the rapid-fire, staccato writing, each sentence barely a few words long. Possibly the most original, least pandering, fiction ever read. You have to meet KKK more than half-way on this one, it takes quite an effort to make it through the first .... or so, after which you get somewhat used to the disorienting feeling of reading this kind of prose? :D

That post wasn't as stakkoto, but it did have a kornukopia of "k"'s. Perhaps a more Ellroyesque post would be something like this:

LemonSoup Kid digs Dr. Z. Kid dives into the place and show pools. ROI inkreases slooooowly. Dave Schwartz bops contrarian. Wins dough at the win-window. Inefficiencies, deficiencies abound. Diskussions fly back and forth through the ether. Your host, Pace Advantage.

[Assist Man]

E.W. Donaldson's book is indeed "a good read." He had sheet-like numbers about 20 years ahead of Ragozin, so Ragozin is not "the father of speed figures" as some have portrayed him. He is, however, one clever fellow and his method of graphing his figures is original as far as I know - Donaldson graphed his slightly different but did use one graph per horse as Ragozin does in his product.

[Assist Man]

Good luck finding Donaldson's book, Big Mac! The only one, besides my copy that I know of is being offered at over $1000. Oh, and the one that Jerry Brown owns and I doubt if he intends to part with it or the information contained therein:)

[QuarterCrack]

For those still interested in the EW Donaldson book, don't waste time or money trying to track down "Consistent Handicapping Profits" - it's too expensive and hard to find.

Instead, look for his other book "How to Select Winning Horses". I can't say for sure, but it certainly appears to contain everything that is in "Consistent Handicapping Profits". The parallel chart is there, the graphs, the ground loss stuff, track variants, etc.

It is so similar, I almost think that this is just an earlier (or later) version of "CHP" under a different title. Same publisher and everything.

It can be found on Amazon for $30. Way better than $1,200!
http://www.amazon.com/How-Select-Winning-Horses-Donaldson/dp/B000N0P44E

[Fingal]

Now the ones on there are around $99

[QuarterCrack]

Heh, people must have snatched them up... When I posted my message yesterday, there were 4 copies available beginning at $30.

The Pace Advantage crew are pretty damn sharp!

;)

[plainolebill]

Heh, people must have snatched them up... When I posted my message yesterday, there were 4 copies available beginning at $30.

The Pace Advantage crew are pretty damn sharp!

;)

I don't know about sharp, quick yes. :)