Hank Goldberg: Lunatic or Crazy Like a Fox?

[JPinMaryland]

Christ I knew I shouldnt have watched that derby prep show w/ GOldberg and Moss tonight. Early in the show Hank is talking about Point Determined and says something like: "I like the looks of him. But, his recent workouts havent been good. I'll probably use him in the bottom of some exotics."

That's great. We've got a lively longshot, possibly a wise guy horse and Hank spills the beans and tell us that he's not working out very well. The answer to this is to play him in exotics... :bang:

Later he said that one of the closers, Seaside Retreat reminds him of Borrego.

Which is great, so now I can start working on my exacta for the Travers. :jump:

So what's the deal with Hank? Lunatic :lol: or Briliant ;)

[PaceAdvantage]

I don't know about crazy, but I do know Hank doesn't seem very comfortable on television. How he gets more prominent roles as time goes on is beyond me....

Randy Moss and Jeannine Edwards are where its at as far as the ESPN/ABC team goes....

[Bruddah]

He is absolutely the worst handicapper, I have ever heard. Has he ever been close to picking the winner, other than pure chalk. Not only can he not pick them, he rambles on about things that never impact the race. He has to be a brother in law of someone at the top of the network. If not a brother in law, maybe a next door neighbor. In short, I can't stand his input. (JMHO) :bang:

[xfile]

That's a bit harsh on Hank. He's actually a good handicapper. All he did was state his opinion of the facts. "Point Determined has not been working well". He gets paid to state his opinion while we blow ours for free on this board. Anyway - take what he says and still form your own opinion. I was high on PD before I heard his statement. He didn't change my thoughts negatively however he did motivate me to investigate harder. I'm going to review PD's workouts on the DVR and make my own judgement. :cool:

[blind squirrel]

what's the deal with Hank? Lunatic :lol: or Brilliant???


before the 96 derby i ran into HANK at the ice cream cart{imagine that}
in front of the paddock.so i said" hey hank,who do ya like?"...all he said
was"EDITORS NOTE,he's gonna love the distance"..before i walked away
i said"hey i think CAVONNIER has a shot...he laughed at me as he took
a bite of HAGEN DAS,and replied""HE'S A GELDING!"..ha! ha!

after the race when GRINDSTONE won, he took credit because
EDITORS NOTE and GRINDSTONE were coupled{OVERBROOK}.

[Tom]

Hammerin Hank has had some nice ones in the past, but, he does apper uncomfortable.

Randy Moss - he plays Locke on LOST doesn't he? Makes hig Beyers on the big computer in the cave. :lol:

[JPinMaryland]

He was definitely looking at notesthroughout the program which of course does not look good in front of the camera.

I wonder though if he's leaving us a few choice morsels that we have to pick out for ourselves. I mean if you're a public handicapper and you like to bet, you're in a bit of a quandry. Maybe the answer is to speak in code:

So when he says: "I like him the bottom of exotics."

It really means: "He's already peaked. Toss."

WHen he says: "Reminds me of Borrego."

It really means: "Does his best running after the race is over."

Because really if he wanted to, he didnt have to tell us that Pt. Determined is not working well. He could have said "he's working really well and growing more and more too." THen cash a big score...

Or maybe He realizes it really is all over for Pt. Determined and there is no reason to lose public credibility over a horse that has no chance anyhow. So might as well tell the truth.

OR maybe he knows that real wise guys are already onto the horse since he's a fast closer in a race with a lot of front running speed and he seems a perfect fit on paper. But he's telling us, "no way...."

Because he knows that real wise guys are not going to play a longshot thats' not working well on the bottom of exotics...Now maybe I get it :faint:

[xfile]

He was definitely looking at notesthroughout the program which of course does not look good in front of the camera.

I wonder though if he's leaving us a few choice morsels that we have to pick out for ourselves. I mean if you're a public handicapper and you like to bet, you're in a bit of a quandry. Maybe the answer is to speak in code:

So when he says: "I like him the bottom of exotics."

It really means: "He's already peaked. Toss."

WHen he says: "Reminds me of Borrego."

It really means: "Does his best running after the race is over."

Because really if he wanted to, he didnt have to tell us that Pt. Determined is not working well. He could have said "he's working really well and growing more and more too." THen cash a big score...

Or maybe He realizes it really is all over for Pt. Determined and there is no reason to lose public credibility over a horse that has no chance anyhow. So might as well tell the truth.

OR maybe he knows that real wise guys are already onto the horse since he's a fast closer in a race with a lot of front running speed and he seems a perfect fit on paper. But he's telling us, "no way...."

Because he knows that real wise guys are not going to play a longshot thats' not working well on the bottom of exotics...Now maybe I get it :faint:

What in God's name are you smoking??? :cool:

[Stevie Belmont]

He is absolutely the worst handicapper, I have ever heard. Has he ever been close to picking the winner, other than pure chalk. Not only can he not pick them, he rambles on about things that never impact the race. He has to be a brother in law of someone at the top of the network. If not a brother in law, maybe a next door neighbor. In short, I can't stand his input. (JMHO) :bang:

Yeah its easy to rip the losers, what about when he banged Borrego in the Pacific Classic. No where near chalk. That was a good pick on his part.

[Bruddah]

and obnoxious handicappers find a "Nut" once in awhile. For my part, they can leave him off the Derby coverage. He adds nor contributes anything. (JMHO)

[JPinMaryland]

Or maybe he really DOES LIKE Pt. Determined and is trying to throw people off the trail? Because if he comes right out and says "Oh he can never win this," then people will know that's Hank just trying to throw people off the trail since obviously wise guys already have spotted this horse...

So he uses reverse psychology and tells people that he sort of still likes the horse. Which people will think "Oh he tells us he likes him, but he really DOESNT LIKE him." So Hank goes and cashes a big score...

But the problem with that is that this is only Sat. so people still have time to start thinking about what he said on Friday and think "Hank says not to bet him, so I will but dId he use reverse psychology on us all along?"

So they look back at Friday's show to determine whether Hank is clever or stupid. ANd they see Hank saying that he doesnt like him, and so he'll play him in the exotics.

WHich makes no sense of course, and so the people will think. "No, he couldnt be using reverse psychology on us. He's too freakin stupid."

BUt really he's not, he's just playing dumb and he really LIKES Pt. Determined.

Very clever Hank. Very clever. ;)

[Bruddah]

of Thorughbred racing. If you remember the boxing telecasts, they drag poor old Larry in front of the cameras. He rambles non-sense for a few minutes, in a pontificating manner. None of which, does the viewer ever witness, during the fight. Afterwards, he sums up the fight. After he has spoken, I am left thinking, "I wonder what fight he attended?".

The brother in law or neighbor angle applies to poor old Larry Merchant and Hank Goldberg. Maybe he and Hank are married to sisters of a network big wig! That's the only plausible excuse for having either one of them as commentators. Other than, they are from the neighborhood. :bang:

[Tom]

Hammerin Hank is better than.....Muttonchops! :eek:

[Roamin]

Bruddah, man you hit the nail on the head, both losers in my book, everytime Hank pics a horse, its a snake bite,lol

[Bruddah]

MuttonChops to the list of bad commentators. I take these guys as insults to horseracing and boxing fans. No wonder the general public tunes these sports out. Look at what is representing the sport on TV. I think the idiot broadcasters are searching for a 'Howard Cosell' of Horse racing. What they never really understood is, how much the general public detested Cosell. Again all of the hyperbole and pontificating. I stopped watching Monday night football for the same reasons. At least Randy Moss speaks and communicates intelligibly. He makes intelligent observations and handicapping points. (JMHO)

[JPinMaryland]

Yes peopel hated Cosell because when you thought about some of the crap he was saying it made no sense. And it was pompous, but did you listen to sports before Cosell? It was even worse, because the announcers before him were just milktoast, nothing but cheerleaders.

So Cosell was both an iconoclast and a windbag. But at least people started to take commentary seriously.

Moss is very good, no complaints there.

I guess Charlsey Cantey has retired and I thought she was real good. Theyve replaced her with that women who used to ride and she's probably good too but I'll have to let her grow on me.

They had that gorgeous airhead from COld Pizza in 2004 who called Limehouse "Limestone" and otherwise came across as an idiot. I dont think it was Dana, this chick was even better looking and way dumber. Maybe she's not on the show anymore. ANd I'm not thinking of Kat either who was dumb as rocks, but had excellent cheekbones.

***

Oh one more thing, Hank asked Randy if he knew who the last maiden to win the derby was. "Uh, no." "Broker's Tip in 1933."

Of course, knowing Hank this was rehearsed and not off the top of his head. So the whole bit comes across as totally cheesey, which was what the entire show was basically.

[Tom]

Moss is very good. I think he and Kenny are the Pat Summeral/John Madden team of racing. Kenny cracks me up.

I like Stevens, too - he gives a different viewpoint, from a riders edge.
I loved that piece he and another rider did a few weeks ago- actually riding the course and talking about thier strategies at the various points of call.

[Stevie Belmont]

C'mon Muttonchops is hilarious. You gotta love his passion for his Europe turfers. Crazy B*****d.

[JPinMaryland]

somehow they are going to find a way to work Stevens/Cigar into the show. :D

[rastajenk]

JP, I think her name is Thea Andrews. Whatever shortcomings she had as a racing hostess were more than made up for with her fantastic stems. I'm not a leg guy, but she about made me a convert. Or some kind of -vert.

[JPinMaryland]

Yes, Thea! She was drop dead gorgeous. I dont think she is on that show anymore, but dont watch it anyhow. They were trying to get her ready for prime time I guess but she was just too ditzy. Kat has an amazing face. I guess Dana is the main one now, and she's on the ball.

[Doc]

I have seen Hammerin' Hank in action at the windows at Pimlico. He's a BIG gambler - must bet every dime that ESPN pays him. He reminded me of my patron saint, Oscar Madison, because he looked so disheveled...must take a lot of work to get him cleaned up for the cameras.

Doc :jump:

[LemonSoupKid]

cosell and goldberg have in common? haha

i have no idea of either's true knowledge but hank comes off as old most of the time and I've only seen HC on reruns, mostly with M. Ali

[JPinMaryland]

Doesnt Hank most remind you of Jimmy the Greek? SOme old guy who once was a great gambler but now he's lost his edge and has found his way on TV. Neither of them have/had much in the way of a tv prescence.

Goldberg's looking at his notes every other freakin sentence. It is was gawdawful. I have no doubt he was probably a prodigious bettor back in the day. I'm sure he's paid his dues. Offers no insight at the present day.

Moss OTOH does offer insight although he's not going to tell you right out, this is who I like and who not to bet on. He's way more subtle than that. FOr instance on the pre derby show, he gave his proposed morning line. Just his own thoughts on what the mornign line should be. You can contrast his morning line to the ones suggested by pinnacle etc. and get a good idea on what he thinks.

Moss often throws out tidbits and not a lot more but if you can read between the lines sometimes you can see he had an insight. Not so much this year although he did pick one longshot in one of the derby preps. He's had better luck in previous years IIRC.

[JPinMaryland]

Hank is going with AP Warrior and Lawyer Ron, I think someone said. I'm sure they said LR, and I think it was APW..Hmmm :jump:

[dccprez]

True Story;

It's 2001. The Breeder's Cup is at Belmont Park. I'd picked my "must bets" the week (or so) prior - Squirtle Squirt in the Sprint, Banks Hill (...I thin it was her) in the FM Turf and Tiznow in the Classic. I was of course going to look at the other races and had some "ideas" but those three were drop-kick solid.

It's the night before the Cup. I'm staying at the Hilton (? - it's a little "fuzzy"), near Nassau County Colesium (sp), Long Island. Night before the races, hotle bar and lounge is PACKED with horse-people - including a contingent that came over from Great Britain.

My (ex)girlfriend and I are making great conversation with anyone and everyone - the whole place is in tha great, friendly, "hey we're all here to celebrat the same thing" kind of mood that you get before big events. The adult beverages are flowing , everyone is buying rounds, life is grand.

The ex trikes up ap conversation with a somewhat serious looking but friendly "chap" from GB. Turns out he is the chief (?) odds maker for "the biggest sports book" (his term, not mine) in GB. One more gin and tonic later he is gonig to "do me a big favor at no charge" because we've been so "fun" (read; bought rounds). He proceeds to take my DRF, go through race-by-race and make curious notes, cross-offs and check marks. The highlights; Johannesburgh was "no match for American 2 year-olds on dirt", Banks Hill was "over the top", Tiznow was "hurt and done" and Squirtle Squirt "can't do six (furlongs) against that crowd".

Hey, he's the EXPERT, right !?!?, The bestest and bigger-est sports book in GB remember?!?!?

The next day...
Squirtle Squirt...9-1
Banks Hill...4-1
Tiznow...10-1
Nice winners!!!

...guess who yours Truly did NOT have wagers on?

Stick to your guns. Go with your own EDUCATED bet. Don't let Hammerin' Hank (who I DO enjoy and someone who I think is a good handicapper and a true fan of the sport) or even the "Bestest" public handicapper change your mind.

[GeTydOn]

I'm confused. :confused: Who is Dana? Ain't it Donna? The former jockey who rides around on those ponies and interviews the jocks after the races? and Jeannine is the one commentating from the paddock? Right?

Back to Hank. How can someone defend one horses slow times by saying he's consistent and knows how to win but knock a different horse for slow times who is even more consistent? Hank praised Lawyer Ron for being consistent despite slow times but trashed Barbaro. Okay. He did give Barbaro credit for winning everything over all kinds of surfaces but that.s it.

[JPinMaryland]

Dana is Dana Jacobsen who is the current female on ESPN's COld Pizza. A daily news show. She replaced the gorgeous airhead Thea ANdrews and the pretty Kat whatever They will put the Cold Pizza people into the derby show so you will probably see Dana on tv at some pt..

Donna Brothers is the ex-jock who will be out there on the track. She's good. You will only see her for the races, you see Dana every day on espn.

[GeTydOn]

Guess thats why I was confused. Thought we were talkin racing shows. Dont know anything about cold pizza.