Dime Supers and the Derby

[rastajenk]

Do you think they'll offer them? Do you think they should?

I don't know how often some of you get to a track these days (as opposed to staying put in the friendly confines of your own homes), but it is now not uncommon to get stuck behind someone rattling off a bunch of ten-cent straight superfecta numbers for what seems like an eternity. I've been punching tickets now for several months, and from my side of the window nothing is as frustrating as seeing serious bettors queuing up behind a guy with a long list of supers. And that's at a punky little harness facility. Now imagine Derby Day, with all its novice participants (and inexperienced clerks as well), and the allure of striking big on the cheap, and 20 horses to choose from, and not knowing how to box/part-wheel, and a handful of dimes, and.....well, it's a Perfect Set-Up for Parimutuel Gridlock, if you ask me. Do you think the racing powers have considered the negative ramifications of tens of thousands getting shut out by grandma and her change purse?

[Indulto]

Do you think they'll offer them? Do you think they should?

I don't know how often some of you get to a track these days (as opposed to staying put in the friendly confines of your own homes), but it is now not uncommon to get stuck behind someone rattling off a bunch of ten-cent straight superfecta numbers for what seems like an eternity. I've been punching tickets now for several months, and from my side of the window nothing is as frustrating as seeing serious bettors queuing up behind a guy with a long list of supers. And that's at a punky little harness facility. Now imagine Derby Day, with all its novice participants (and inexperienced clerks as well), and the allure of striking big on the cheap, and 20 horses to choose from, and not knowing how to box/part-wheel, and a handful of dimes, and.....well, it's a Perfect Set-Up for Parimutuel Gridlock, if you ask me. Do you think the racing powers have considered the negative ramifications of tens of thousands getting shut out by grandma and her change purse?RJ,
Maybe there'll be a return to the single denomination mutuel window for dime supers. How has your track's management responded to your concerns?

[rrpic6]

Mountaineer Park has been steadfast in keeping the 10 cent super out of their system for all of the previously mentioned reasons. Being greedy, I love it! Its awesome having such an edge. I'm sure its like this in some Vegas OTB's as well. Just look at recent charts from Lone Star or Indiana Downs. I fell off my chair last nite when I got $650 for a 7/2 9/2 10-1 22-1. This is happening often now with 10 cent money building the pools, yet the bettors wagering one dollar tix are not able to build the proper winning ticket.

[bettheoverlay]

Don't you avoid the taxman on a big score when you have it multiple times on 10 cent tickets?

[rrpic6]

Anything over $600 for 10cents, I still have been getting W 2-G's.

[Ron]

Mountaineer Park has been steadfast in keeping the 10 cent super out of their system for all of the previously mentioned reasons. Being greedy, I love it! Its awesome having such an edge. I'm sure its like this in some Vegas OTB's as well. Just look at recent charts from Lone Star or Indiana Downs. I fell off my chair last nite when I got $650 for a 7/2 9/2 10-1 22-1. This is happening often now with 10 cent money building the pools, yet the bettors wagering one dollar tix are not able to build the proper winning ticket.

You can bet dime supers on Mountaineer races even though they are not offered by Mountaineer?

[Loserdave]

I don't believe they allowed 10cent supers on Derby day last year, because the beting volume is so heavy that they don't want 10 cent supers tying up tellers on their biggest day. I'd assume they'd take the same attitude this year.

[BlueShoe]

Dime supers can be a real pain you-know-where even on normal days.Although I use the SAMS exclusively,have been shut out and have had many near shut outs.Do you have any idea how long it takes for some nitwit with a $20 voucher and no clue as to what he/she wants to do to make their bets when punching in dime supers?Have added a rule;in races offering 10 cent superfectas,make my bets as early as possible.If this is not possible,try to avoid the dime a dance folks if you can see what the person at the machine is doing,jump into another line.

[rrpic6]

You can bet dime supers on Mountaineer races even though they are not offered by Mountaineer?

No, people betting at Mountaineer Park's OTB can't bet 10cent supers at other tracks that offer the bet. Many Vegas OTB's were like that last Sept. when I was there.

[MikeDee]

CD didn't offer dime supers last year and I haven't seen anything saying that they will offer them this year either.

The wager has to be offered by the host track before any tracks getting the signal can offer it, but I don't think that the track getting the signal has to offer it.

If I want to bet a $1 super then I just get a dime super 10 times. Of course I pay all my taxes on my winnings even when I don't get a W2.

If line queuing is really a problem then the tracks should put in more machines and make them only for wagers where the per combination amount is less then a dollar.

If there are not enough terminals at the track for all of the bettors to get their wagers in before the race goes off, then it's management problem not the person trying to make a bet.

Not knowing what to do at the window and rattling off a bunch of combinations while reading the form at the window is not just a problem with dime super bettors. We have all stood behind people like this long before there were dime supers.

I don't understand the thinking, racing wants more fans, but they only want fans the bet large amounts of money in single race. All of the whales that want to bet the ponies are already on board. If you want more fans then you need more wagers like the dime super not less.

[rastajenk]

CD didn't offer dime supers last year and I haven't seen anything saying that they will offer them this year either.

Turfway had 'em and Keeneland had 'em this year, so I had guessed it was a state thing and that Churchill would follow suit...especially since some of their other properties do dimes. That was the supposition for my original post: that this would be the first year Dime Supers and the Derby would meet head-on in a possibly violent collision.

I agree with your last graph; it's easy to poke fun at dime players, but it's a good development overall. Hoosier has 50-cent trifectas that are catching on, and Balmoral has 50-cent pick 4's and 6's, I think. Good hooks for folks that can't or won't afford full-fare boxes and part-wheels.

[luckyguy]

i spoke with the churchill people they said they cannot offer dime supers on the derby because it would freeze the system because of the tremendous handle that day.

[PaceAdvantage]

i spoke with the churchill people they said they cannot offer dime supers on the derby because it would freeze the system because of the tremendous handle that day.

Are you joking? If you're not joking, then this quote should be placed on a poster and used as the rallying cry for industry-wide information systems reform.

[luckyguy]

first you have to remember that for the breeders cup the handle nationwide might be around 120 million FOR 8 RACES.

for one race the derby it will be close to 120 MILLION!!!

if you ran a high class resturant and on one day a year people bought $200 kobe steaks would you want a bunch of beggars clogging the store for a 10 cent coffee?

[PaceAdvantage]

first you have to remember that for the breeders cup the handle nationwide might be around 120 million FOR 8 RACES.

for one race the derby it will be close to 120 MILLION!!!

if you ran a high class resturant and on one day a year people bought $200 kobe steaks would you want a bunch of beggars clogging the store for a 10 cent coffee?

I don't believe for one second, in this day and age, that something like this is not feasible. One quick glance at the worldwide financial markets tells you all you need to know.

[LaughAndBeMerry]

Has nothing to do with the long lines. I've spoken with the folks at CD about this. Their position is that they looked at it and decided that 10 cent supers simply cannibalize other pools and bring nothing in incremental volume.

I don't know how they reached that conclusion and I completely disagree with it, but that's their logic for not offering them.

LBM

[MikeDee]

Sometimes in business you have to compete yourself in order to grow your business. Racing will never be a big time sport again as long as the guys in charge think so small. CD management is part of the problem not the solution

[rrpic6]

Has nothing to do with the long lines. I've spoken with the folks at CD about this. Their position is that they looked at it and decided that 10 cent supers simply cannibalize other pools and bring nothing in incremental volume.

I don't know how they reached that conclusion and I completely disagree with it, but that's their logic for not offering them.

LBM

Sounds like Churchill's management has not taken the time to research this new wager. Another case of people not adapting to change. The volume or handle would certainly increase. My rough estimate would be at least 25 to 30K per race on that day, and possibly 100K for the Derby Race in 10cent Supers. I would have played between $300 to $500 in tencenters myself. Now, I won't play a dollar Super in that race, as it is just a lottery with 20 horses.

[MikeDee]

Think about what they are saying.

The public would rather bet dime supers then $1 exa, tri's and supers. So if that is what the public wants, then we won't give it to them. They are not even saying that there is less money in it for them, just no additional money in it for them.

Yep, that's how most business prosper, by not giving their customers what they want.