$ 5.00 Per Gallon comming soon [Archive] - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

Tom

04-19-2006, 07:46 PM

Funny - the price of gas has doubled in the last three years, oil companies continue to make record profits, and this is not seen a gouging!
Oh, I forgot, the government doesn't represent US, only big business and wealthy contributors. My bad.
Anyone think that sicne WE but the gas for Bush's gas-guzzlers, we will back on personal travel, or travel that is for the party no tthe country (98% of his milage, I bet)? Or at least pay fo rit himself? Maybe Chenney could kick in a few bucks out of his 1.67 million dollar tax rebate.

PaceAdvantage

04-19-2006, 09:18 PM

twindouble

04-19-2006, 09:58 PM

Do the oil companies control the price of oil? If you think that they do, please explain in detail how they accomplish this task.

If you think that they don't, then how can you blame them for making record profits? Are they supposed to voluntarily give up part of their profits for the public good? Where does that stop? Should ever company, big or small, give part of their profit for the public good once they reach that MAGICAL "TOO MUCH" profit level? Who set the magical profit level?

Knee jerk reactions to complex problems are usually only half right.

The price of oil is determined by the sellers, OPEC or who ever along with speculators because oil is treated like a commodity. OPEC hasn't to my knowledge announced any dencreased production as a matter of fact the added a million or more barrows a day prior to Katrina and after. The free market forces that you embrace have created the high price of crude oil. There's just as more oil avaiable today than there was a year ago and our reserves are going up as well. What Bush released after Katrina has all ready been replenished, that was part of the agreement along with reducing production requirement.

My argument is, oil shouldn't be treated as a commodity with volatile conditions we have today in the world. Controls are a must to protect our national security and our goal should be building up our reserves so we could survive a long term conflict with those that have us by the throat. I don't mind paying $3.00 a gal as long as the money is going in the right place. Our Security. Any oil company's CEO that makes over a Billion dollars over 3 years isn't in our security interest.

I believe when the conflict widens in the middle east and it will, oil supplies will be cut off drastically. Our reserves will only carry us for about 6 MO from what the experts say so you tell me where the oil will come from when that happens.

T.D.

Lefty

04-19-2006, 10:23 PM

Tom, didja notice that Cheney also gave 7mil to charity?

Lefty

04-19-2006, 10:43 PM

TD, and that's exactly why we shoulda drilled in Anwir and many other places in the U.S. over 20 yrs ago and sure as hell should start immediately.

twindouble

04-19-2006, 10:58 PM

TD, and that's exactly why we shoulda drilled in Anwir and many other places in the U.S. over 20 yrs ago and sure as hell should start immediately.

I agree!
It's really flustrating to me ESP when I think about Japan and why they joined Hitler, they were starving for natural resorces and we put an oil imbargo on them when they started their expansion and joined the Axis powers.

One thing about Tom, he can call a spade a spade and he sure as heck knows when it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's freaking Duck!

Observer

04-19-2006, 10:59 PM

$5 a gallon .. that's insane .. it's making me sick. Where will it end?? If, as mentioned above, these companies are allowed to make as much profit as they want .. what's to stop then from just continuing to escalate prices for their own gain?? There has got to be regulations, no?

PaceAdvantage

04-19-2006, 11:00 PM

I believe when the conflict widens in the middle east and it will, oil supplies will be cut off drastically.

And why would that be? Suddenly, the sheiks don't like money? I don't buy that scenario. There's plenty of places to get oil besides the Middle East....in fact, a very small percentage of our oil imports come from the Middle East from what I understand.

Of course, any conflict, or impending conflict will continue to drive the price up on the exchanges, and your point(s) on that aspect of the situation may very well be valid.

PaceAdvantage

04-19-2006, 11:02 PM

what's to stop then from just continuing to escalate prices for their own gain??

Oil companies BASE their gasoline prices upon the current MARKET PRICE of oil. They don't set the MARKET PRICE, the market does....

Tom

04-19-2006, 11:04 PM

PA....knee jerk?
You mean like the oil companies do every chance they get to raise prices - like four times in one day during Katrina?

They do not control the price of oil, but they do control the price of gasoline, and when they are raising prices at the rate they do just to gouge the public for profits on a commodity so vital to our nation, it is almost reason.
When they had the blackouts in NYC, they were right there to charge mom and pop store owners for gouging the price of ice and water - explain to me how that is any different. Why can't a little guy charge whatever he sees fit for his products and big oil can?

PaceAdvantage

04-19-2006, 11:14 PM

Price of oil goes up on the open market, gas goes up.....price of oil went up big time just before Katrina hit, thus gas went up...

Oil has been going up for a few weeks now based upon the Iran situation, and gas has followed suit....

What can I tell you? It's not a perfect world. Injustices exist EVERYWHERE! If enough people started taking the bus or driving more fuel efficient cars, the price of oil would drop as demand would lessen. It's simple economics.

Can someone provide a chart which shows that the average price of gasoline is far AHEAD of the average price of oil (proportionally)? I'll bet you the graph of each price would be fairly identical....

Those that are espousing the evils of big oil would have you believe that the price of gasoline is far ahead of the price of oil.

PS. Hey TOM, how long before ecaroff jumps in this thread and accuses me of working for one of the big oil companies? :lol:

Observer

04-19-2006, 11:16 PM

Oil companies BASE their gasoline prices upon the current MARKET PRICE of oil. They don't set the MARKET PRICE, the market does....

Whatever. Like I said .. this is just INSANE!!!
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Observer

04-19-2006, 11:18 PM

...If enough people started taking the bus or driving more fuel efficient cars, the price of oil would drop as demand would lessen. It's simple economics.
Are you kidding me???

...PS. Hey TOM, how long before ecaroff jumps in this thread and accuses me of working for one of the big oil companies? :lol:
I'm ready to accuse you of working for big oil. You seem to be the only one not upset by these crippling prices.

Tom

04-19-2006, 11:34 PM

PS. Hey TOM, how long before ecaroff jumps in this thread and accuses me of working for one of the big oil companies? :lol:

Is 5 days up already? :mad::rolleyes:

twindouble

04-19-2006, 11:43 PM

And why would that be? Suddenly, the sheiks don't like money? I don't buy that scenario. There's plenty of places to get oil besides the Middle East....in fact, a very small percentage of our oil imports come from the Middle East from what I understand.

Of course, any conflict, or impending conflict will continue to drive the price up on the exchanges, and your point(s) on that aspect of the situation may very well be valid.

Middle east oil accounts for one quarter or more of America's imports. What get from Venezuela is in doubt now, they sure as heck won't support us. Whatever we get from Iraq or plain to won't happen and I'm sure as heck don't think Russia will fill the gap. Canada's deep sand oil is expensive to extract, that's where the bigger reserves are as it stands now they only provide us a small percentage along with Mexico and I even have my doubts about countries in that part of world, don't know what we get from them. I do know this we import well over 60% of our oil, now just take 35 to 40 percent off the market, how long to you think we last and what would be the price of oil on the market?

mainardi

04-19-2006, 11:59 PM

Give it time, boys... we'll all be driving corn powered cars in 20 years!!! ;)

Based on the push on TV -- and the GM commercials touting their ethanol friendly hybrid cars -- I suspect that between being forced to drill for oil in Alaska SOMEDAY and the push to use ethanol, gasoline prices will come down. Hey, at least farmers will once again be able to make money growing crops. Of course, I fully expect the environmentalists to protest on the basis that they only want corn grown for consumption by life forms.

Should be an interesting future... and it's coming sooner than most folks figured.

Tom

04-20-2006, 12:19 AM

Our future is in corn?
Pirate corn - a buck an ear! :lol:

Lefty

04-20-2006, 12:53 AM

Vegas711

04-20-2006, 02:40 PM

PaceAdvantage

04-20-2006, 04:55 PM

Middle east oil accounts for one quarter or more of America's imports.

Not lately, according to this site.....

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html

Total Petroleum imports from the Middle East account for 17.7% and if you exclude Iraq, it's 13.3%

If you focus only on crude imports, then it is closer to your figure, but still below at 21%....and again, without Iraq, it drops to 15.7%

Lefty

04-20-2006, 05:23 PM

George Bush makes a gesture that we may take action against Iran and now the price of oil goes up.What more does it take for people to see that this President will stop at nothing to boost the profits of his oil buddies. So what if we destroy the american economy all that really matters is that big oil makes record profits. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Maybe when more people lose their jobs will they see the light.

Vegas, yes, GW MUST ALWAYS have an ulterior motive.It's always about big oil profits. It couldn't be that Iran is a danger could it? Nah...

If we do nothing about Iran and we get nuked, then (if you survive) you'd want GW's hide. Don't you guys ever get a bad taste swallowing the leftist crap you keep swallowing?

Lefty

04-20-2006, 05:25 PM

Vegas, also I love the when more people lose their jobs line. If a dem were in, this low unemplyment and the economy would make headlines every day.

skate

04-20-2006, 06:15 PM

i hear that, lefty, if we go into anwir ( the ak. desert) we buy some time.

but if the People don't slow down round town and stop buying so much fuel, it says they really don't care.

actually the higher the better, not going to stay high tho, cause we (Russia) have a pipe line getting ready to open, 5, 6 months or so, going to release a lot of pressure and lots of money for Russia, not bad.

people could , if they really got serious, stop buying fuel at Esso and or Mobil, to the point where they (esso) would drop the price, Price War, bong!

serious?
skates

fergie

04-20-2006, 06:19 PM

I sure hope not--but since wifey and I could kinda see the direction we recently replaced our guzzler with a Honda Civic hybrid. only on 2nd tank--1st tank got 47.2 mpg.:)
Fergie

Tom

04-20-2006, 07:59 PM

Vegas, also I love the when more people lose their jobs line. If a dem were in, this low unemplyment and the economy would make headlines every day.

Instead, we keep hearing the party line about McJObs that pay a fractin of a real job. You still never ansered my questions - are you blindly citing raw numbers or do you actually know tht all theses new jobs are equal to the lost ones. Losing a million $40K jobs and picking up 2 million $20k jobs is a was. 3 million $10K jobs is a loss.

Let's see some ral data here.

Vegas711

04-20-2006, 08:01 PM

Vegas, also I love the when more people lose their jobs line. If a dem were in, this low unemplyment and the economy would make headlines every day.

First off I am not a democrat/ republican or any of the others, I am more of the I hate politicians type.

As far as George go's what do you like the best.

A. High oil prices.
B. Supporting illegal imigrants.
C. Outsourcing american jobs.
D. His war with iraq ( 2000 plus dead) and his lying about it.
E starting a new war with Iran and lying about it as you will see.

Yeah, he is a great president just look what he has done. Maybe it is only his R label that you like. This IS WHY WE NEED TO REMOVE THE PARTY LABELS.

Lefty

04-20-2006, 09:15 PM

First off I am not a democrat/ republican or any of the others, I am more of the I hate politicians type.

As far as George go's what do you like the best.

A. High oil prices.
B. Supporting illegal imigrants.
C. Outsourcing american jobs.
D. His war with iraq ( 2000 plus dead) and his lying about it.
E starting a new war with Iran and lying about it as you will see.

Yeah, he is a great president just look what he has done. Maybe it is only his R label that you like. This IS WHY WE NEED TO REMOVE THE PARTY LABELS.
If you hate politicians there will always be there, but right now you're picking on a pretty great pres.
High oil prices are beyond his control. The pres does not control the mkt, nor is his fault India and China have become greatly industrialized. O'Reilly says we can force oil prices back dn by using 3% less gas. Are you doing your part?
Outsourcing American jobs has been going on for years. Prom more to do with Unions pricing our workers out of the competition than any politician.
Supporting illegalk immigrants? So are the dems. It's a sticky wicket, a complicated problem, and yours is just another kneejerk reaction.
He's not lying about the war and we are winning, but how would you know if you only listen to the mainstream press or CNN.
Iran is a real threat, and he hasn't started any war with them, but you presume he will. And you're not leftwing? Coulda fooled me.

Get more rounded in your news.

Lefty

04-20-2006, 09:19 PM

Instead, we keep hearing the party line about McJObs that pay a fractin of a real job. You still never ansered my questions - are you blindly citing raw numbers or do you actually know tht all theses new jobs are equal to the lost ones. Losing a million $40K jobs and picking up 2 million $20k jobs is a was. 3 million $10K jobs is a loss.

Let's see some ral data here.

I don't have all the facts figures. Do you? All the financial news I listen to say the economy is great. Why do you think otherwise?

Tom

04-20-2006, 10:37 PM

First reason:
Since regean, the esccalation is alarming.

Tom

04-20-2006, 10:40 PM

Second reason:
And today, nothing accomplished with Hu.....why would he give in - HE is winning. Playing Bush like a violin.

Tom

04-20-2006, 10:53 PM

Third Reason:

http://www.jobwatch.org/

...."Sluggish private job growth indicates failure of tax cuts
Changes in tax law since 2001 reduced federal government revenue by $870 billion through September 2005. Supporters of these tax cuts have touted them as great contributors to growth in jobs and pay. But, in reality, private-sector job growth since 2001 has been disappointing, and a closer look at the new jobs created shows that federal spending—not tax cuts—are responsible for the jobs created in the past five years."

..."Economy up, wages down
The year 2005 was a solid economic year by some indicators, as the economy expanded for the fourth consecutive year. Real hourly wages, however, fell for most workers."

Tom

04-20-2006, 10:59 PM

Fourth reason:

Lefty

04-20-2006, 11:08 PM

Tom

04-20-2006, 11:14 PM

Don't know these guys are, but most financial people seem to disagree with them.
economy up wages dn? Sounds like an oxymoron. Why do you insist on drowning yourself in negativety?
I'm retired, but my wife making pretty good wages. We're getting along. The longshots coming in at a good rate.
Can't complain.

Yeah, you are pretty representative of America all right. You got yours, screw everyone else. I don't call it negativity - I call being an intelligent citizen diagreeing with the way my country is being run and demanding something be done about it. If I waited for people like you to wake up and do something, it would be what, 2078? You are still forgiving non-actin 12 years ago.

GeTydOn

04-20-2006, 11:15 PM

Glad to hear you can't complain. Must be nice being retired and having a wife with a good salary. I'm with Tom on this one. Just can't figure out how the economy is doing well when wages suck and it's becoming increasingly more and more impossible to get by. Can't wait to pay 5 bucks a gallon!
:jump: :jump:

Tom

04-20-2006, 11:35 PM

Gas prices eating up disposable income, local taxes gobbling up more of our checks to pay for medicare, school taxes going through the roof.....and jobs flowing over our borders. The federal tax cuts go hand in hand wtih cuts to services that are being picked up by local governments, but it all comes out of our pockets.
Regulating prices is nothing new, but oil gets a pass because of who the oil barons are.

Lefty

04-20-2006, 11:39 PM

Lefty

04-20-2006, 11:45 PM

getty, quit whining and get to work if you're not doing well. See above. What the hell's wrong with you guys. Everything is going dn the tubes to hear you guys talk. All around me I see prosperity; even the so-called poor have cable tv.
You guys cry doom and gloom and when it's demonstrated that you're wrong i get the same old liberal line. "Well, glad you got yours" Just didn't expect it from Tom.

Tom

04-20-2006, 11:52 PM

Tom, I am representive of America. Now you're sounding to friggin liberal for me. If someone does well, then it's evil cause EVERYONE else is doing badly. I'm not rich but we're gettin along. My kids stayed in school and they're doing great. This is a country where we can all do well if we try and not just whine. I've worked my butt of mostly for substandard wages my whole life and I owe apoligies to NOBODY!

Calm down - I meant a retired husdand and wife with a good job are not your typical family, that's all. You call it whinning, I call it my right to challenge my government when I think they are screwing up. I am not willing to make repeated excuses for Bush. Happy Birthday.:rolleyes:

lsbets

04-20-2006, 11:54 PM

If your local taxes are going up and your local politicians are blaming the federal government, that is nothing but a cop out. I live in the fastest growing county in the nation and our taxes have not gone up and should go down next year after we retire an issue of bonds early.

Now, with that being said, the truth of the economy lies somewhere in between Tom and Lefty. On the positive side, employment is strong, and it is very hard for companies to find good people to hire. In 1999, signing bonuses and relocation packages were being thrown around like candy. I get calls from headhunters on a regular basis, and those bonuses and incentives are back on the table again for the first time since 99. If you hate your job, find another one - it is very hard for companies to hire good people right now. But you have to be able to present yourself as an overachiever who will be an asset to wherever you apply. If you can't do that, no one is interested.

On the negative side, disposable income is being eaten up by energy costs - not just gas but electricity. Food costs are going up, and not just because of the cost of energy. We're having a pretty good draught down here, and the higher cost of feed for cattle has led to a much higher cost for beef. I don't know how much feed for cattle has gone up, but I know the hay for my horses has gone up 60% in the last year and I am getting nothing but crap hay.

The other huge negative is the inverted yield curve. Couple the lack of incentive to loan money long term with the decreased consumer spending on non energy and food items, and that spells trouble for the ecnomy. So, while the employment picture is actually pretty good right now, all the signs are there for a recession by the first quarter of 07 if not sooner.

The populist in me says fuck Exxon. The chairman made 60 million last year. Don't go after the corporate earnings - tax him 50% with no deductions on his personal income until the price of gas comes down. There have been times in the past when the obscene greed of corporate magnates needed to be reigned in, and it has worked. We need to do that again. Don't go after the companies earnings - go after their personal earnings. How fast do you think the price of gas would go down then?

dav4463

04-21-2006, 12:37 AM

Why can't we drill in Alaska and produce our own oil ? It can be done without destroying the environment you know.

Ponyplayr

04-21-2006, 01:01 AM

Instead of waiting on the Government to do something why don't we do something on our own.

Conserve fuel by staying home one day a week.
Use Public Transportation when possible. I can get an all day buss pass for three dollars go anywhere I want. That has saved me a ton of money.
Instead of driving my car to the OTB I take the Buss.

Little things add up...think about it.

Lefty

04-21-2006, 01:05 AM

Tom, calmng, sipping diet coke. What I meant is that I and my wife have worked hard, a lot of crappy jobs and now it's paying off. I think that's representive of America. Thanks for the happy birthday.

dav, shoulda done it 20 yrs ago. But the dems keep blocking it. Wonder what the gas proces would be if we had? Hmmm, but now we must start; but we won't and there's no way repubs can be blamed for it.

dav4463

04-21-2006, 01:09 AM

"I don't care about pollution, I'm an air-conditioned gypsy. That's my solution. Watch the police and the taxman miss me. I'm MOBILE !....Keep me movin' "

Lefty

04-21-2006, 01:25 AM

Pony, you're right. It's we the people that must help force gas prices down. We should conserve and we should DEMAND that our reps drill in Anwir and every other viable place. Do the positive and stop the whining. I for one, for last 20 yrs, do a lot of walking, at least a mile a day back and forth to the racebook.

Vegas711

04-21-2006, 01:54 AM

If you hate politicians there will always be there, but right now you're picking on a pretty great pres.
.

Lefty in no way do i intend to be mean, you may be a very good person, however if you think this sack of #### that we have for pres. is good you must have inhaled a lot of glue.

You need to open your eyes and see what is happening buddy.Fox news is a puppet channel for republicans as cnn is for democrats, what they have to say is not worth their salt. Get out in the world look at whats happened to all the help wanted signs, they are gone. My paper used to have 500 + jobs in the want ads on any given WED they now have less than 20. Prices of homes are comming down. Before Bush the dow was at 15,000 it is now at 11000 + the Nasdaq was at 5000 it now is in the low 2000. gas was $1.14per gallon , today its 2.89 per gallon. Hundreds of plants are now closed.

What more has to go wrong before people wake up and see that we are much worse today than we where 7 years ago.

PaceAdvantage

04-21-2006, 04:21 AM

Uh, wrongo. The Dow hit its all time high on 1/14/2000.....and it was nowhere near 15,000. It was at 11,750, less than 300 points away from YESTERDAY's high of 11,384.

The S&P hit an all time high of 1552, a little over 200 points away from where it closed Yesterday. So that's almost back as well..

Only the tech dominated NASDAQ has failed to regain most of what it lost, but then again, it nearly DOUBLED in value in only FIVE MONTHS back in late 1999, so it is only reasonable to conclude that it was the epitome of IRRATIONAL EXUBERANCE....and it doesn't DESERVE to get back to anywhere near that level anytime soon....remember all the dot com companies that were being pumped into the stratosphere???? Bunch of fools......

You were saying? BTW, that last jobs report sounded awfully good, didn't it?

twindouble

04-21-2006, 09:16 AM

[/left]

Not lately, according to this site.....

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html

Total Petroleum imports from the Middle East account for 17.7% and if you exclude Iraq, it's 13.3%

If you focus only on crude imports, then it is closer to your figure, but still below at 21%....and again, without Iraq, it drops to 15.7%

Well, at this point I can't argue exactly what the figures are, what I said come off the top of the head but when you get right down to it, I wouldn't hang my hat on any figures the government puts out. There has to be a rate of increase in our imports over the years, growth tells me that along with our lack of drilling and refining. I'll still stick to what I said, if imports get squeezed off to any great degree we are in deep shit when it comes to our national security. With the exception of Canada oil rich countries are seizing the opportunity where we are the most venerable and that's a fact. Plus I wouldn't trust Mexico as far as I could throw them knowing very well they are invading us at a rapid rate. The have no regard for out laws on any level and their actions are supported by their own government.

T.D.

Tom

04-21-2006, 11:05 AM

ls.
Re-local taxes. I live in NYS, where the state motto is, "I never saw a tax I couldn't raise!":rolleyes: Waki-Pataki land of the living dead.

Local taxes are going through the roof to pay for meidcare. The only thing NY is really concerned about right now is keeping the Buffalo Bills in the state. (up) Chuck Schummer is like a little dog wagging his tail around that SOS OLD Geezer Ralph Wilson waiting for him to say "fetch!". Poor old trillionaire is crying poverty and once again, NYS is there at his beck and call.

Hey, I know how to conserve gasoline - put in a bus line to the poor house and we can all hop on board!

Lefty

04-21-2006, 11:33 AM

vegas, your viewpoint is unblvble. I was raising kids during a terrible job mkt in Ind in the 60's. I scraped and worked long hrs min wage and when even those jobs were gone i sold Fuller Brush door to door. Jobs are always there if you look. So they won't start you out as Pres of company. This is best economy in my lifetime. And when you call this Pres names, I get mad. Seen too many bad dems, seen them screw this country up something awful. No drilling for oil in Anwir so now instead of being energt ind. we are not. They don't want SS reform so it will eventually collapse. They dtood by and let Al quada get all-powerful. They gave Nukes to N. Korea and a sattellite launcher to China. How long will it take them to launch missiles with it.
The financial gurus say the economy is best in 40 yrs. I blve it cause I've been around longer. No matter how good the economy people will always have to struggle. I did for yrs, what's new. I didn't whine, I got the job done, got the kids fed. That's life.

Tom

04-21-2006, 11:44 AM

Lefty,
Around here, the 60's were the golden years - jobs galore! Unemployment was about 2%! Rochester was a shinning beacon for jobs. Kodak, Xerox, Baush and Lomb led the parade of prosperity. Unless you were black. Then you carried a broom if you got in those places.
Again, 1997-98 (Clinton years) things werre booming around here - there far more jobs than people. We had to hire work-release prisoners to fill our assembly lines! They came on a bus with armed guards. It was that or nothing.

Just because the economy looks good in one area says nothing about other areas. We are supposed to be one country, so ignoring the dead spots just because your garden is growing is small thinking. To you, we might be whinners, but to us, you sound like an elitist. Unless you prefer Nevada to become a seperate country, please consider that the rest of us are part of this country, too. And it is not a rosey economy in many places. Would you like us all to pack up and move to Nevada? Will you hire us all? Can we stay with you until we find our own places?
The cornerstone of conservatism is accountability and taking responsibility for your own actions. This all I want our goverment to do. That so far are not.

Lefty

04-21-2006, 11:50 AM

The govt can only do so much. The power is in the individual. I came through many tough times. People today have it less tough jobwise. It's up to them, not the govt. Guess what, it will always be that way. Nothing is given on a silver platter to most of us. You have to do it the old fashion way, you have to work for it. And I am not talking about you personally. But in general. C'mon, everybody says this is a great economy, but i'm supposed to blve a few guys who see nothing but doom and gloom?

Lefty

04-21-2006, 11:54 AM

Tom, an elitist? Gimme a friggin brk. Broke my back for over 40 yrs and i'm an elitist? There are always jobs in the toughest of times and there are plenty jobs now. So you people have to work themselves up from min wage. I struggled that way many a yr, long hrs often two jobs so I have no pity for the lazy and the ones who wanna start out making the big buclks. I really never made big bucks in my life but I made it to old age. Go figure.

Indulto

04-21-2006, 12:41 PM

Lefty,

I’m enjoying your exchange of views with Tom and it reminded me of something my Dad told me: “We were so poor we didn’t even know there was a Depression going on.”

Success IS a function of expectation and possibly the most valuable skills one can acquire is the ability to anticipate, recognize, and adapt to change. Entrepreneurs are GENERALLY more successful in doing so than those employed by others, so perhaps that is the primary reason why Republicans hold the power they have today.

It appears that your versatility was just as important as your determination in having things work out to your satisfaction, but do you give any credit to having been in the right places at the right times during your life?

A belated happy Birthday.

Tom

04-21-2006, 01:11 PM

Lefty, I said you sounded like an eltist.
I started woring in hicgh school and never stopped. I worked three jobs while putting myself through college. I missed exactly 1.5 days of work in the last 25 years, worked overtime, 6-7 day weeks, 12 hour days, and was on call 24-7 not to mention I was never more than two hours away from an unplanned trip out of state. So when you refer to me as a whinner, I tend to get a bit bitchy. To me you sound like an elitist - "I got mine! Screw you" mentality.
You have no cluue what it is like in the real world. You see anyone who is complaining as a lib or a whinner. I see families stretched to the limit, trying to make ends meet, worried about how they will afford college for thier kids, juggling credit cards to get by. Hardly whinners. Meanwhile, our SOB president does nothning to stem the 200 billion dollar trade deficit that is killing the middle class. In fact, taxpayers bought Hu's lunch yesterday - I sure hope it was chinnese take out - like Stik mi pagoda! :rolleyes:

To each his own. If you want to sit by and watch this dunderhead destroy this country, be my guest. It takes lot more than a friggin $300 to buy my loyalty.

highnote

04-21-2006, 01:24 PM

Do the oil companies control the price of oil? If you think that they do, please explain in detail how they accomplish this task.

PA,
Correct me if I'm wrong -- you usually do and I usually am. :D

U.S. oil companies (Exxon, etc.) buy oil for $70 per barrel and can make 210 dollars worth of gasoline. So while they don't control the price of oil, they do control the amount of margin they make on a barrel of oil. They triple it. So they do have some control over the price we pay at the pump.

Vegas711

04-21-2006, 02:26 PM

Lefty, you work hard and provide for your family that is a good thing, maybe where you live things are not as bad where they are where I live.

I do not believe that the government should provide all things for me,but I am absolutely opposed to outsourcing american jobs to other countries I believe in keeping americans working, this is in direct opposition to your hero Mr. Bush.Replacing $20.00 per hour jobs with $9.50 per hour jobs is not the making of a strong economy. You need to stop being brain washed by cable tv. and see for yourself how bad the american economy is outside of Vegas.

Vegas711

04-21-2006, 02:31 PM

JustRalph

04-21-2006, 03:14 PM

I think this thread points out the difference in the economy in different areas of the country.

Tom

04-21-2006, 03:50 PM

.....Replacing $20.00 per hour jobs with $9.50 per hour jobs is not the making of a strong economy.

My company outsourced tons of jobs to mexico. American wrrokers were making $12-14 and hour, thier counter parts now make.....$5 a day. A bus picks them up, drives them to work, they get a hot lunch, work 10 hours, then ride home on the bus. $5 a day.

Try competing with that. This is what a global economy means. It is NO GOOD for America, period. No matter what Bush-wackjob says. You cannothave a global economy without a global society - and Bush is diluting this country to the level of the lowest common denominator. Global economies do not raise the lowest up, they bring the richest down.

Indulto

04-21-2006, 07:45 PM

Global economies do not raise the lowest up, they bring the richest down.Tom,
Man, you're really on a roll these last few days! :ThmbUp:

mainardi

04-21-2006, 08:59 PM

Here's the problem with a world economy: it does allow poorer coutries to prosper at the expense of the richer countries.

But here's a bigger issue for the USA: we want EVERYTHING cheaper AND we want to keep the US wages for the equivalent jobs where they are.

Sorry folks, it's not going to work!

You DO have a choice... either pay more for "Made in USA" items OR keep on buying the cheaper imports and send the money out of the country.

We are WAY beyond a quick fit. If the USA is to reduce their deficits, the best option is to gradually wean ourselves off of foreign dependence -- not that I know how to do that -- first at the corporate level, then at the individual level. Of course, once you ask corporations to raise expenses, there goes the stock market and thus the economy.

Quite a Catch-22, isn't it?

JustRalph

04-21-2006, 09:03 PM

It's capitalism.........not socialism. There will always be losers and winners. It is designed to be that way.

ljb

04-21-2006, 09:15 PM

ljb

04-21-2006, 09:18 PM

My company outsourced tons of jobs to mexico. American wrrokers were making $12-14 and hour, thier counter parts now make.....$5 a day. A bus picks them up, drives them to work, they get a hot lunch, work 10 hours, then ride home on the bus. $5 a day.

Try competing with that. This is what a global economy means. It is NO GOOD for America, period. No matter what Bush-wackjob says. You cannothave a global economy without a global society - and Bush is diluting this country to the level of the lowest common denominator. Global economies do not raise the lowest up, they bring the richest down.
You forgot the health care provided to Mexican workers. Just the workers not their families. Works like this. They call in sick. Bus picks them up takes them to a clinic where they are given an aspirin and then sent to work.

ljb

04-21-2006, 09:25 PM

The govt can only do so much. The power is in the individual. I came through many tough times.
Lefty,
You did well when the Democrats were controlling congress didn't you ? Times started getting tougher for the middle class about the time Reagon was President and have been getting tougher ever since. Good thing you were able to make it before Reagon and the neocons took over. :D

Tom

04-21-2006, 09:46 PM

Mainardi,
I have no problem paying more for American made goods. I have a problem finding American made goods.
Competition will eventually reward those who can lower prices. In the meantime, I have no issue with $5 lettuce, more cash for shoes, etc.
Right now, if Bush had balls ( I like the ring of that!:)) he would be doing something about the chinnese undervalung their currency to allow them to sell cheap stuff here. Something like 40%? We nee d a 40% tarrif to break even.

Ralph - partially correct - but let's either hold the rest of the world to the same standards we have, or drop ours. Things like government regulations, OSHA, worker rights, anti-trust statures, sanitation codes - why should a Cleveland diner have to spend money on soap for employees to wash their hands when chinnese don't? Think chinneses workers get health care?

This country got to be the greatest on earth by having standards and values - just saying capitalism is the bottom line is not how we did it. Capitalism, left unchecked, will devour us. That was the road we were heading down befroe cooler heads said, Whoa! We have to reign in some businesses before they kill us all. Standard Oil, the meat packing industry, the railroads, all proved their irresponibility and had to be controlled. For the good of the country.

How many chinnese companies do you think follow Sarbanes-Oxley? ISO?
Let me tell you, S-O gets so deep in your shorts, there is barely room for your butt.

Capitalism is moslty OK, but only between civilized nations.

JustRalph

04-21-2006, 10:42 PM

Ralph - partially correct - but let's either hold the rest of the world to the same standards we have, or drop ours. Things like government regulations, OSHA, worker rights, anti-trust statures, sanitation codes - why should a Cleveland diner have to spend money on soap for employees to wash their hands when chinnese don't? Think chinneses workers get health care?

Good points tom. Some of those things could go away. But then the locals would find a way to make up for the money they would lose.

You should see what it takes to get a permit to do a job in Columbus Ohio. First they make you jump through enough paperwork to choke a wood chipper and then they charge you 400 bucks just to be approved as an "official contractor" Then you can apply for a permit for each job. At 335 bucks a job minimum. Then when it is inspected, if you fail twice you pay again for the inspector................on trip 3. Luckily I haven't failed any.........you get the point.

Lefty

04-21-2006, 10:50 PM

I've never been in the right place at the right time. Where I grew up in Ind things were tough; certainly nowhere near as good as Rochester. I raised my kids on a series of min wage jobs. I also took some sales commission jobs when even the min wage jobs not available.
Tom, you can be neg and blve Bush destroying the country if you want to but i've always been a positive person. If anyone cannot find some type of work in this economy i sure as hell ain't sorry for them. Back when my kids were young we also had to pay for our own babysitters. I'm done, i've said my piece. Pwer lies in the individual not the gov.

JustRalph

04-21-2006, 11:23 PM

Pwer lies in the individual not the gov.

shame on you for spouting conservative principles........... ;)

PaceAdvantage

04-21-2006, 11:40 PM

Do auto companies control the price of autos ? Do milk companies control the price of milk. Do diamond mines control the price of diamonds ?
Not sure, but the oil companies are making record profits while we are paying through the nose. You do the math.

You didn't even come close to answering my question. Congrats!

Indulto

04-22-2006, 12:09 AM

. . . let's either hold the rest of the world to the same standards we have, or drop ours. Things like government regulations, OSHA, worker rights, anti-trust statures, sanitation codes - why should a Cleveland diner have to spend money on soap for employees to wash their hands when chinnese don't? Think chinneses workers get health care?

This country got to be the greatest on earth by having standards and values - just saying capitalism is the bottom line is not how we did it. Capitalism, left unchecked, will devour us. That was the road we were heading down befroe cooler heads said, Whoa! We have to reign in some businesses before they kill us all. Standard Oil, the meat packing industry, the railroads, all proved their irresponibility and had to be controlled. For the good of the country.

. . . Capitalism is moslty OK, but only between civilized nations.Tom,
Please run for the tattooed lady's senate seat. I'd support you for President, but I couldn't sleep with your digit on the Nuke button.;)

Indulto

04-22-2006, 01:06 AM

If anyone cannot find some type of work in this economy i sure as hell ain't sorry for them. Back when my kids were young we also had to pay for our own babysitters.
. . . Pwer lies in the individual not the gov.Lefty,
Now that you're eligible for SS and medicare, do you use them? Do you have a pension from an employer who is still in business or do you enjoy the the fruits of shrewd stock market and/or turf investments?

You say you fed your kids and they turned out OK which by itself makes you a success by anyone's standards. Were you and your family covered by health insurance when you worked for minimum wage. If not, were you fortunate enough to not need it?

What kind of job market exists where you live for people over 50? When such people no longer have health insurance, what do they do? Can anyone today afford rent, utilities, and health insurance with even two minimum-wage incomes?

If you arrived at retirement age without ever needing any assistance from anybody -- family or otherwise -- you WERE in the right place at the right time, and you might consider changing your pseudonym to "Lucky."

Lefty

04-22-2006, 01:15 AM

RXB

04-22-2006, 01:21 AM

I amuse myself by reading how "power of the individual" dogmatists spin their own histories with "I've never been in the right place at the right time."

Indulto

04-22-2006, 01:54 AM

Yeah, if you get through life by the sweat of your own brow, the typical lib response is, you were lucky. I can't win with you types. Yes, i've been lucky and unlucky just like everyone else. I just didn't whine for the govt to support my kids; did it myself. I don't have anything but a small ss chk(under $600) but i've made a few good real estate investments over the yrs, nothing big, but that's because i spent countless hrs studying creative financing, i guess that's just luck too.
I never had health insurance when i was working those low paying jobs and pd for the birth of my 4 kids out of my own pocket.
Just call me lucky lefty, optimism and hard work had nothing to do with it.I'm not saying that optimism and hard work played no part in your traversing life's minefield, but it's hard to believe you've never noticed anyone whose life blew up without warning -- and then required assistance -- despite the best outlook and effort on their parts. Does optimism require one to wear blinkers and ignore the GENUINE hardships faced by others?

Of course there are those who take advantage of others desire to help. Such individuals are indeed criminals as are the politicians who ignore them which includes Republicans and Democrats alike.

Selflessness is futile and selfishness is uncivil, but self-centeredness is legal.
May the sun keep shining inside your blinkers, lucky Lefty.

Lefty

04-22-2006, 02:13 AM

Indulto

04-22-2006, 03:55 AM

Sure, there are people whose lives blow up without warning as you put it, but they are not the norm. It's you guys waerin the blinkers that's trying to spin the best economy in 40 yras as something out of hell. There will always be people who suffer hardships and no pres can make nirvana here on earth.
Workers work and bums make excuses.Absolutely right, Lefty, they are not the norm, and neither are the "bums." It's not hell, but it's not the best economy in 40 years either. I noticed you never responded to my earlier request for specifics as to why you think the economy is so outstanding and the war is being "prosecuted successfully."

You're not swerving in the stretch with those blinkers, Lefty, but you never change from the right lead, either. Most of America and the world now sees your hero for what he is, but you just keep making excuses for the bum.

Vegas711

04-22-2006, 04:18 AM

A little while ago sitting on the desk of one of my customers was the American Flag it was brand spanking new still in its plastic covering. I took a gander at it on the back side i saw where it was made in . The tag read Made in China.

Imagine that, we outsource to a communist country the making of the one sign of our freedom the american flag. How many Veterans are rolling over in their graves? This shows that nothing anymore is held sacred.

betchatoo

04-22-2006, 04:47 AM

I once got a "Buy American" t-shirt that was made in the Philippines

hcap

04-22-2006, 05:40 AM

http://wyden.senate.gov/leg_issues/reports/wyden_oil_report.pdf
http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2006/04/damning-evidence-of-big-oil-conspiracy.html

“As observed over the last few years and as projected well into the future, the most critical factor facing the refining industry on the West Coast is the surplus refining capacity, and the surplus gasoline production capacity. The same situation exists for the entire U.S. refining industry. Supply significantly exceeds demand year-round. This results in very poor refinery margins, and very poor refinery financial results. Significant events need to occur to assist in reducing supplies and/or increasing the demand for gasoline.”

--Internal Texaco document, March 7, 1996

“A senior energy analyst at the recent API (American Petroleum Institute) convention warned that if the U.S. petroleum industry doesn’t reduce its refining capacity, it will never see any substantial increase in refining margins…However, refining utilization has been rising, sustaining high levels of operations, thereby keeping prices low.” “As observed over the last few years and as projected well into the future, the most critical factor facing the refining industry on the West Coast is the surplus refining capacity, and the surplus gasoline production capacity. The same situation exists for the entire U.S. refining industry. Supply significantly exceeds demand year-round. This results in very poor refinery margins, and very poor refinery financial results. Significant events need to occur to assist in reducing supplies and/or increasing the demand for gasoline.”

--Internal Texaco document, March 7, 1996

Lefty

04-22-2006, 11:58 AM

Absolutely right, Lefty, they are not the norm, and neither are the "bums." It's not hell, but it's not the best economy in 40 years either. I noticed you never responded to my earlier request for specifics as to why you think the economy is so outstanding and the war is being "prosecuted successfully."

You're not swerving in the stretch with those blinkers, Lefty, but you never change from the right lead, either. Most of America and the world now sees your hero for what he is, but you just keep making excuses for the bum.
That's right. Most people that want to work are working that's my point. I always had jobs when I wanted or need them. Most of the time low paying or commission sales but we got here from there.
Financial news not hard to come by, neither are the good things that are happening in Iraq. We are winning. Try getting away from mainstream news for awhile.

Indulto

04-22-2006, 02:58 PM

Lefty,
Consider our last exchange:
. . . I noticed you never responded to my earlier request for specifics as to why you think the economy is so outstanding and the war is being "prosecuted successfully."
. . . Financial news not hard to come by, neither are the good things that are happening in Iraq. We are winning. Try getting away from mainstream news for awhile.Do you ever bother to substantiate any of your opinions?

Originally posted by Lefty(2):
Although i'm just an 8th grade grad my vocabulary is still bigger than most college grads i know.Quit hoarding all those valuable words and start elaborating. I guess it’s not hard labor you believe in, but hardly laboring. Or are you still laboring under the illusion that all you have to do is come up with a one-line, blanket dismissal and people will think you actually have something to say?

Vegas711

04-22-2006, 06:53 PM

Financial news not hard to come by, neither are the good things that are happening in Iraq. We are winning. Try getting away from mainstream news for awhile.

2000 + dead U.S. soldiers in Iraq Hmm that sure sounds like good things are happening in Iraq:rolleyes: :rolleyes: . The latest , a plane or helicopter gets shot down in Iraq and the people of Iraq including kids are on tv dragging our soldiers dead bodies in the streets cheering just like they did in Somolia ( them bastards) yeh sounds to me we are winning. :rolleyes:

You are so brainwashed that even if your brain were washed in bleach you still will stick to your opinions.

Lefty

04-22-2006, 07:26 PM

2000 + dead U.S. soldiers in Iraq Hmm that sure sounds like good things are happening in Iraq:rolleyes: :rolleyes: . The latest , a plane or helicopter gets shot down in Iraq and the people of Iraq including kids are on tv dragging our soldiers dead bodies in the streets cheering just like they did in Somolia ( them bastards) yeh sounds to me we are winning. :rolleyes:

You are so brainwashed that even if your brain were washed in bleach you still will stick to your opinions.
And I hate that part but you can't fight a war without casualties. Freedom comes with a price and if we had more libs we wouldn't have any libs cause we woulda lost the country long ago. 2 countries with a chance at freedom. Saddam gone. Al Quada in disarray. Good things are happening but will never admit that so i don't know why i keep bruising my typing finger. Nice little insult at the end, but guess what, not surprised.

Indulto, not hard to substantiate, watch some financial news. Unemployment dn, stock mkt up, new home ownership at an alltime high. Sorry you still see the cloud and not the silver lining but i suspect i will never be able to disabuse you of that idiosyncracy.

Indulto

04-22-2006, 08:25 PM

Indulto, not hard to substantiate, watch some financial news. Unemployment dn, stock mkt up, new home ownership at an alltime high. Sorry you still see the cloud and not the silver lining but i suspect i will never be able to disabuse you of that idiosyncracy.$64 + $64 = :lol: :lol: :lol:

46zilzal

04-22-2006, 08:31 PM

Freedom comes with a price and if we had more libs we wouldn't have any libs cause we woulda lost the country long ago.
yea it's expensive ousting all those democratically elected governments to have them replace with friendly (pro-Western) dictatorships, i.e the Shah of Iran amongst others

Lefty

04-22-2006, 10:02 PM

46, you saying Saddam was democratically elected?

indul, guess I don't know what you're saying but just heard a new coalition govt has been formed in Iraq.

Tom

04-22-2006, 11:01 PM

Taliban - stole Afghanistan - no fair elections there.
Hussein - military coup to steal Iraq - no elections there.

Iran - yeah, we screwed with them pretty bad. Paid a price, too.
That was a long time ago, and much closer to thier nazi conneciton, so it's not like we just toppled a fair government - just not good judgement in hindsight.

Presently, WE ensured fair elecitons for the first two, and will most likely do the same for Iran when we are done with them. :cool:

Oh yeah, we toppled the evil nazis and gave Germany freeodom and bent over backwards to protect West BBerlin from the commies. Put the rightful French government in power, and allowed DeGaul to lead the march back into Paris - props were not what we were there for.
Rebuilt Japan, brought them out of the dark ages and helped them conduct fair elections.

And we are still going strong!

46, your point was.....?

Fact is we NEVER toppled a legally elected government.

Vegas711

04-23-2006, 02:22 AM

[QUOTE=Lefty]And I hate that part but you can't fight a war without casualties. Freedom comes with a price and if we had more libs we wouldn't have any libs cause we woulda lost the country long ago. 2 countries with a chance at freedom. Saddam gone. Al Quada in disarray.

First off I was one of the idiots who supported Bush in the first election, second I believe all Politicians are crooked and I will never again vote for one, I prefer to call them and bitch them out which I do a lot. Third all news stations are extremely biased including your Fox news. I listened to Bill O'reilly, Hannity they are extremely Biased. I no longer waste my time hearing their bullshit.From everything you say it is clear that you get all your news from Fox News.

I did think that you were a lib before this thread since you call yourself Lefty.

Al Quada in dissaray ya right...

PaceAdvantage

04-23-2006, 03:00 AM

Al Quada in dissaray ya right...

What description would you apply to Al Queda? Instead of disarray, would you call them a 'well oiled machine?'

I mean, I just don't get it sometimes. How are they NOT in disarray? All those attacks on the "Great Satan" since 9/11?

PaceAdvantage

04-23-2006, 03:03 AM

Fox News, Fox News, Fox News, blah blah blah blah blah......

Seriously, what is the big frickin deal? I watch Fox news not all that often, and I just don't get what all the hullabaloo is about. Do people just need a windmill to tilt against at all times, and Fox News is the current fad?

dav4463

04-23-2006, 03:43 AM

Lefty,

Give it up. You can't argue with them. They will twist everything around to give you the most pessimistic outlook every time. They think they know everything and they think you are stupid ! I've tried. I work with some of them. Just the other day I had an argument with a couple of people at work who swear that Bush organized the attacks of 9/11. They will believe and/or say anything to make Bush look bad. I like Bush. I think he stands for what he believes in and sticks with his decisions. He faces the tough decisions every day and does what he believes is right. You may not agree with him, but many of us do and that is our right just as much as it is their right to constantly bash the president.

Tom

04-23-2006, 11:38 AM

Dude, if you are thinking Hannity and O'Reily are NEWS shows, you need a reality check. Rush, Savage, Randi Rhodes, Al Frenkenstein - this stuff is talk shows - NOT news shows. Of course they are biased - THEYARE SUPPOSED TO BE.
That's why it is Hannity and Colmes and not the Evening News with Sean Hannity.

Lefty

04-23-2006, 11:55 AM

PA, Dav and Tom, correct, correct and correct.

vegas, my nickmame nothing to with politics, it's about the arm.

JustRalph

04-23-2006, 01:46 PM

I am with dav on this one. I call for Lefty to take a cooling off period.

I also nominate Vegas for the 5th horseman..........any seconds?

Indulto

04-23-2006, 03:33 PM

indul, guess I don't know what you're saying but just heard a new coalition govt has been formed in Iraq.Lefty,
I was attempting to show how hilarious I found it that all my teasing accomplished was to get two $64 words out of you, but still no more detail.

I hope DS wasn't including me as one who considers you and other right-tilting souls to be stupid. If I didn't respect your intelligence, I wouldn't waste any time arguing with you. I tend to react strongly to hypocrisy and/or insensitivity, and in cyberspace, you often project the latter. It would not surprise me to find you just the opposite in person.

Pace Cap'n

04-23-2006, 04:25 PM

I just filled up for $10.

The lawnmower, that is.

Lefty

04-23-2006, 07:14 PM

indul, you are right. I am not insensitive.

Vegas711

04-23-2006, 07:57 PM

What description would you apply to Al Queda? Instead of disarray, would you call them a 'well oiled machine?'

I mean, I just don't get it sometimes. How are they NOT in disarray? All those attacks on the "Great Satan" since 9/11?

P.A. What I meant, was that no one can say that they are in dissaray there is absolutely no way to proove it. If they attacked again expecially on a very very major scale like a dirty **** it will then point out that they are not contained, God forbid that this should happen.

Proove it to me that we have all the bad guys, give me a list that shows me that we have them all, and that no more will surface then and only then will Lefty back his claim, which contains no argument of support.

Vegas711

04-23-2006, 08:08 PM

Dave

I for one will rip both Dems and REpubs, I am totally unbiased when it comes to the party system. Bush for all the reasons I gave is why he is a terrible President.

I totally cannot stand Minn state Dems becouse they are all paid off by the Native american tribes. Canterbury Park for years has tried to get slots but becouse of the dems in our state we will never get it......You see I do not like ANY POLITICAL PARTY becouse they are ALL crooked... it is called lobbying I call it Bribery and I believe that is wrong. I call these people they ignore me and other voters becouse we don't give them bribes.

Make a List of all the wonderful things Bush has done and give it supporting arguments.... so far no one has.

Lefty

04-23-2006, 10:02 PM

vegas, Everyone that comes back from Iraq says we are winning. I didn't say Al Quada ceased to exist, i said they were in disarray.

JR, not likely you will get your wish.

Vegas711

04-23-2006, 10:21 PM

I am with dav on this one. I call for Lefty to take a cooling off period.

I also nominate Vegas for the 5th horseman..........any seconds?:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Man, know you did it, I am going to have to find my Bible and look up the 5th horseman.

Since this is a racing site just call me the 5th horseplayer.

People, every one has their right to their opinions and that is what is fun about sites like this.

Just becouse I disagree with people like Lefty doesn't mean anything personal, sometimes when you drill a point after a period of time a little of what you say will seap in . I always base my opinions on personal observations of what I see happening in the world, if I see a lot of help wanted signs in front of businesses then I believe the economy is doing well, if I don't see any then things are doing bad, likewise when all I see is everything being made overseas then i will stick with my opinion that our government is not interested in protecting american workers.

Tom

04-23-2006, 10:34 PM

Lefty

04-23-2006, 11:06 PM

vegas, guess what. It's not up to the govt to protect american workers. Protectionism does not work. Japan tried it and hurt their consumers and eventually put their economy into a tailspin.

Vegas711

04-23-2006, 11:39 PM

Lefty, Our Government could protect the american workers by putting taxes on inports so that they will be the same price as if they were made in america.If we continue to outsourse jobs the time will come when there will be no jobs for any of us. This all comes down to, at the expence of the many a few get rich.

Then to counter this our government can slash all the rest of our taxes. Make them more reasonable like a flat 10% tax, eliminate property taxes for all seniors over 65. Seniors who have paid property taxes for 30 years should get a break.
Eliminate double taxes i.e. only new cars have a sales tax.

Tom

04-23-2006, 11:42 PM

Lefty, guess what, it IS thier job to protect American workers form unfair trade practices and they have failed miserably to do so. China is selling chep here becasue Bush rolled over and refused to adress their cheating in the market place. They violate copywrite laws, engourage selling knoock-offs, and have under-valued thier currency. These are things only a government can address - individuals area helpless to fight this.

And signing bills like NAFTA and CAFTA only hurt our workers - we do not benefit at all from having to compete with slave labor. It is a no brainer to me - global economies require global societies - guess who loses?

Lefty

04-23-2006, 11:53 PM

vegas, I certainly am for the flat tax but libs oppose it. In fact, a few yrs ago CBS did a special on the flat tax and decimated the whole concept with lies. When Bernie Goldberg told how they lied in a USA article, he wasn't employed by CBS for very long after.

Tom, China been selling goods here long before Bush. I am against violating copyrights and selling knockoffs, hey, americans do plenty of that themselves.
Damn that Bush, why can't right the ills of the world in 6 yrs. What's the lazy bum doing?

Tom

04-24-2006, 12:45 AM

So Lefty, the guy has been president for 6 years....what the hell did we elect him for if he is not ever going to get going on things?
If i'd wnated to just accept the same old crap as alway, I could have elected Kerry. I though I was electing a guy who was going to get stuff done. Silly me.

Lefty

04-24-2006, 01:50 AM

Let's go back further... If Gore had been elected, no tax cuts, bad economy; Saddam still running wild and maybe even hits us with a weapon of somesort.
This Pres got his tax cuts through, got the war approved and that's pretty amazing. Sorry he hasn't solved everything else but then you had Daschle and now Reid bottlenecking everything. Oh, by the way, he did get 2 nominees on the Supreme court. With all these dems and moderate repubs blocking most everything I just wonder how much you think a president can accomplish? The latest bill in congress concerns the illegal immigrant issue and guess what, Harry Reid has it bottlenecked. I just think you expect more from this guy than is humanly possible for him to deliver, given the circumstances.
But then, there's always Hillary or some other Dem, and there goes taxes going up and guess what, nothing gets done at all, except maybe another try at some crazy socialized medicine scheme that will have us all paying even more for healthcare but not getting even a simple test without a long wait.

46zilzal

04-24-2006, 01:56 AM

Let's go back further... If Gore had been elected, no tax cuts, bad economy; Saddam still running wild and maybe even hits us with a
Yeah and maybe we will all win the lottery and grow money from the bushes out front too

PaceAdvantage

04-24-2006, 02:55 AM

No attacks on us since 9-11.......our great security, or none planned yet?
Under estimating Al Qeda ould be very dangerous. They certainly have cost us enough money since then, and they just have to say BOO! and our daily lives somewhere get all jumbled up.
Personally, I think we are at greater risk today than 9-10-01. I think the big one is yet to hit.

Come on. You seriously believe this?

This group is apparently committed to the destruction of Israel and the United States (Great Satan). Yet, they strike us like we have never been struck before on 9/11, and that's it? They leave it at that?

Seriously, don't you think it would have been tactically better to continue striking us right after 9/11, when our defenses were still weak, and the country was still in shock? The 9/11 attack shut the stock market down for nearly a week, correct? That has NEVER happened before.

Can you imagine the devastating economic and psychological damage that continued, random attacks could have produced in the aftermath of 9/11? But, curiously, they did NOTHING! This supposed well funded, well organized group of terrorists allowed us to mourn, allowed us to rebuild, and allowed us to SHORE UP OUR SECURITY INFRASTRUCTURE (nevermind those that think we are more vulnerable now than before, as that does not apply to this particular argument)! Hell, they even allowed us to go on the OFFENSIVE!

Now if they are so smart, so well funded, so crafty, and so well organized, why the hell would they allow us to get away with all this post 9/11? Wouldn't it have been far more intelligent to keep hitting at us in the days and weeks after 9/11? Even if it was nothing more than a suicide bomber walking into a crowded mall....

Think of how terrified people were of that DC/Maryland sniper a few years back...in the grand scheme of things, he was nothing compared to the terror well organized small terrorist attacks would have been right after 9/11.

And yet, nothing.

So, forgive me for not buying into this theory that Al Queda has us by the balls and can eradicate us any time they please.

Or maybe it's just that they are lacking in the "planning and execution skills" department? Who knows.....

JustRalph

04-24-2006, 05:42 AM

The FBI says that 13 seperate plots have been foiled since 9-11. they won't give details........but they do list people who originated those plots and have been arrested. Some are high profile and some aren't.

Lefty, you are right on protectionism. But I think some things could be done to slow the tide. But in the long run.......it is gonna happen anyway.......and play itself out the same.

Tom

04-24-2006, 09:55 AM

PA - WTC...1993........................................ ......2001

They operate under THEIR timetable, not ours.
By the balls, hardly, but you know what their secret weapon might be?
Complacency. Hell, leave the borders open, containers unchecked, what's the worst that could happen? Al Qeda will never defeat us, but we sure as hell can defeat ourselves.

Either we are in a war on terror or we aren't.

Hey, if not, GREAT!
Then let's quit spending all this money om it, bring the troops home, and start building THIS country instead on remodeling camel shacks.

Tom

04-24-2006, 09:57 AM

ljb

04-24-2006, 09:58 AM

Yeah and maybe we will all win the lottery and grow money from the bushes out front too
:D
Lefty sure does use a lot of ifs, doesn't he ? Seems to be more prevalent amongst those who have problems facing reality.

Lefty

04-24-2006, 08:33 PM

yeah, you libs are right, everybody's outta work, the unemployment and stock mkt figures only count for something when dems are in office. Sure, sure...

Indulto

04-25-2006, 04:17 AM

They operate under THEIR timetable, not ours.
By the balls, hardly, but you know what their secret weapon might be?

Complacency. Hell, leave the borders open, containers unchecked, what's the worst that could happen? Al Qeda will never defeat us, but we sure as hell can defeat ourselves.

Either we are in a war on terror or we aren't.

Hey, if not, GREAT!
Then let's quit spending all this money om it, bring the troops home, and start building THIS country instead on remodeling camel shacks.Tom (Or should I address you as FDR, Jr?),
You've nailed the problem. Things worked out better from their standpoint than they could ever have hoped. Remember when Bush told us to prove they hadn't broken our spirit by shopping at the mall as usual. Well, now we're all usually shopping for the lowest gas prices.

But we're not afraid. Those flight-boarding lines are so long because we're content to spend time leisurely strolling through airports, concentrating on locating fellow passengers we suspect might be of Middle-Eastern origin. Of course welcoming guests as they de-planed and having a cup of coffee with loved ones before departing was no great loss.

We must only fear fear, itself, because we're not worried about terrorists crossing our borders, or concerned about the contents of containers passing through our ports -- only the corporations that control the ports and the cargo consigners.

“I’ve seen the enemy and it is us.”
We've emptied our treasury and our arsenals, squandered our volunteer military support, and re-distributed wealth to oil company and military contractor executives. We've reduced the health-care costs of unpaid Americans and lowest-paid illegal aliens to zero by increasing the % of people w/o health coverage.

We've saved the Iranians from having to attack the Iraqis in order to eventually establish Shia control in that country. We've taught OBL the value of outsourcing jobs so that non-Saudi's now control the suicide bomber job market and the terrorist elite no longer have to pay with their own lives.

Once we have outsourced a sufficient number of jobs to India and China, they will cross our unguarded borders to solicit or buy out our drafted military defenders who by that time have no jobs to return to and can't afford any housing to protect. The undocumented workers originating from south of our border will return home voluntarily because the new Indian and Chinese employers will not hire them.

Thank you President Bushwinkle and Darth Chainsaw. Enjoy the menu at Mango Bell.

twindouble

04-25-2006, 07:15 AM

Can you imagine the devastating economic and psychological damage that continued, random attacks could have produced in the aftermath of 9/11? But, curiously, they did NOTHING! This supposed well funded, well organized group of terrorists allowed us to mourn, allowed us to rebuild, and allowed us to SHORE UP OUR SECURITY INFRASTRUCTURE (nevermind those that think we are more vulnerable now than before, as that does not apply to this particular argument)! Hell, they even allowed us to go on the OFFENSIVE! Quote; PA

We are far from shoring up our infrastructure, all we did was put a few band aid's on it, our Canadian and Mexican borders are still wide open. When the drug lords can get tons of drugs through our borders and shipping lanes, why not weapons that could kill thousands of people? When the enemy has no regard for his or her life, they shouldn't be taken lightly at any time.

These people operate like cereal killers, don't know where or when they will strike. The problem is, there's thousands of them and we have no clue as to how many are here or anywhere for that matter. They spent the last 20 years or so building up this army of hate though out the middle east and other parts of the world, they continue to do so now. This war has just beginning and they are the only ones that know it, the American people sure as heck don't believe it. We better start taking it seriously or we will be in deep trouble down the road. Besides, better to be safe than sorry.

Like I said before, we get little or no moral support from the Muslim world as a whole, if no one is alarmed about that fact alone, they have their head in the sand and someday it could get lopped off.

T.D.

shanta

04-25-2006, 10:02 AM

Regualr unleaded $ 3.35 a gallon here on Shore Road in New Rochelle as I type this.

Up 21 cents in 11 days. :ThmbDown:

Tom

04-25-2006, 10:09 AM

Breaking news this morning - Bush has stopped sending oil to the strategic reserve. Last I heard, it was only 57 days. This is not a good thing.

twindouble

04-25-2006, 11:29 AM

Breaking news this morning - Bush has stopped sending oil to the strategic reserve. Last I heard, it was only 57 days. This is not a good thing.

I agree!
What a dumb thing to do, we get upwards of 60% of our oil from others, if anything we should be building our reserves. :bang: These price increases to me is what the American people need to wake them up so pressure can be put on all involved to change what should have been change 30 years ago. Not building our reserves play into the hands of those that would love to see us go into economic and military chaos.

The only real pressure that would work is to get the American people pissed off enough to reject those in office that double talk this huge problem to get elected, at the same time move at a snail's pace further threatening our national and economic security. To me the handwriting is and has been on the wall. If we don't take the bull by the horns when it comes to conservation and alternative fuelsnow not ten years from now waiting for nuclear plants or refineries to get approved we won't come close to solving the problem.

I still contend we can create a glut of oil in a short time by boycotting and conservation, there's not a city in this country where riding a bike would get where you wanted to go faster than a car. Just a little bit of inconvenience and American ingenuity it CAN be done. Over night we could cut the demand or electricty anywhere from 10 to 25 percent, a little sweat is good for you and anyone except the elderly can adjust to temptures of 55 to 65 degrees. I think that's healty as well. High prices always puts us in a creative mode.

Here's another, each state cuts the use of recreational vehicles and boat season by one half for the season or the year. Anyone who can show proof of conservation should get a tax credit from the Federal government, on the auto, boats, and other vehicles just proof of mileage will do the trick.

Any other ideas?

T.D.

Tom

04-25-2006, 11:38 AM

Observer

04-25-2006, 11:40 AM

... Anyone who can show proof of conservation should get a tax credit from the Federal government ...

That would be nice ... but did you know that people with hybrid cars in places like Oregon are slapped with a mileage tax!!!

Oregon's Mileage Tax (http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136&languageId=1&contentId=32957)

And a little interesting side note:
Hybrid Car Costs Exposed (http://www.edmunds.com/advice/specialreports/articles/103708/article.html)

Lefty

04-25-2006, 11:53 AM

Observer

04-25-2006, 11:56 AM

Alternative fuels .. they'll find a tax for that, too!
:mad:

twindouble

04-25-2006, 12:05 PM

That would be nice ... but did you know that people with hybrid cars in places like Oregon are slapped with a mileage tax!!!

Oregon's Mileage Tax (http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136&languageId=1&contentId=32957)

And a little interesting side note:
Hybrid Car Costs Exposed (http://www.edmunds.com/advice/specialreports/articles/103708/article.html)

I say screw the State, force them to cut the fat, waste and corruption to repair the roads, Oregon has it backwards in my opinion. Take a close look at where the fuel taxes go, you'll find a lot of it doesn't go for road repair, the freaking pensions, early retirement, medical and other perks more than likely eat up a good percentage of it. That's the way it is here in MA. Regardless, a federal tax credit would work, rather than throwing subsidies at everything the moves.

T.D.

Lefty

04-25-2006, 12:12 PM

Get some candidates who will address this, get rid of ones who are doing this.

Observer

04-25-2006, 12:13 PM

Get some candidates who will address this, get rid of ones who are doing this.

Yeah, as if it were that easy!

Lefty

04-25-2006, 12:32 PM

Yeah, as if it were that easy!

It's always that easy and that hard. You can either whine or try and change things.

Observer

04-25-2006, 12:43 PM

...You can either whine or try and change things.

I do both. But I'm stuck whining, because it seems for every step forward I take .. I get sent back 10 steps.

46zilzal

04-25-2006, 12:55 PM

Yep. So much for conservation. We need to do 2 things increase the supply by drilling where we have lots of oil and move toward alternative fuels. The Pres' energy bill addresses this but dems will have none of it.

mother goes to see her son march in a parade and he is hopelessly out of step. She chirps (much like you) "Why are all THOSE OTHER BOYS, out of step?"

Vegas711

04-25-2006, 03:14 PM

[QUOTE=PaceAdvantage]Come on. You seriously believe this?

This group is apparently committed to the destruction of Israel and the United States (Great Satan). Yet, they strike us like we have never been struck before on 9/11, and that's it? They leave it at that?

QUOTE]

P.A. They attack when they want too, sometimes it is years between. Just becouse its been almost 5 years doesn't mean they are done. No one can be certain of anything when you are dealing with a bunch of uneducated lunatics.

Vegas711

04-25-2006, 03:29 PM

Could this be part of some elaborate conspiracy? Deplete our strategic reserrves, just when we arae posturing for yet another war, one that might well involve Russia and China, to put us at a total dependency? Yikes! Imagine what the cost of oil could be then! And King George sure seems to be playing to that end.

Keep watching the news - see if you see an oil executive humping his leg at the podium! :eek:

You are absolutely correct. When this will happen no one knows. There is a day that will come when Iran and Iraq will come together, they and Russia will attack Isreal and latter China will join them.

Last month Russia and China particated in war games, they are commited to backing each other. The pressures of oil shortages will be the catalyst that forms these mergers.

Tom

04-25-2006, 03:38 PM

And your theory about implanted chips - something to think about. Create a huge furor over illegal immigration, do nothing, eventually come up with this idea and sell it as security.

Indulto

04-25-2006, 03:52 PM

P.A. They attack when they want too, sometimes it is years between. Just becouse its been almost 5 years doesn't mean they are done. No one can be certain of anything when you are dealing with a bunch of uneducated lunatics.V7,
I agree that they aren't done, but while I would never address any of the terrorist elite as "Sir," neither would I think of them as "uneducated." That's how 9/11 happened. Self-educated -- yes, fanatic -- certainly, lunatic -- ??? When he was killing Russians, did anybody in the US want OBL committed to an asylum? Plenty of educated lunatics closer to home. I believe God wanted me to run for dogcatcher. ;)

JustRalph

04-25-2006, 06:03 PM

P.A. They attack when they want too, sometimes it is years between. Just because its been almost 5 years doesn't mean they are done. No one can be certain of anything when you are dealing with a bunch of uneducated lunatics.

Wrong! An Al Qaeda trained wingnut was stopped from bombing a shopping mall where I live. He was uncovered by the NSA wiretapping that has been assailed by the left. They attack when they can pull it off. And only then. Compared to the monitoring and vigilance displayed on 9-11 versus today............the stuff instituted by the Admin is working...........

PaceAdvantage

04-25-2006, 06:29 PM

We are far from shoring up our infrastructure, all we did was put a few band aid's on it, our Canadian and Mexican borders are still wide open.

Like I said, NOT APPLICABLE to the argument I am presenting. The very fact that they did not attack as further after Sep 11, 2001, giving us the OPPORTUNITY to shore up our defenses (the debate about whether or not we actually HAVE done so is for another day) is part of the main point I am making.

PaceAdvantage

04-25-2006, 06:32 PM

P.A. They attack when they want too, sometimes it is years between. Just becouse its been almost 5 years doesn't mean they are done. No one can be certain of anything when you are dealing with a bunch of uneducated lunatics.

Then for a supposedly large, well-trained, well-armed, and well-financed terrorist organization, they are incredibly ineffective. They had a chance to bring this country to its very knees (if you believe the rhetoric that they are "everywhere") in the days and weeks after 9/11 and they did nothing.

Vegas711

04-25-2006, 07:25 PM

P.A. Why would it have had to be soon after 9-11 to bring us to our knees?

Are you saying that if they did attack us in a way that would make 9-11 look like a Picnic that we would not be brought to our knees just becouse its been 5 years? I totally disagree with you.

Just R.

Everyone hopes that you are right, but nothing in life is 100%.

Vegas711

04-25-2006, 07:31 PM

And your theory about implanted chips - something to think about. Create a huge furor over illegal immigration, do nothing, eventually come up with this idea and sell it as security.

15 years ago some obscurred Preacher said over the radio that they would sell it back then as a way to eliminate crime. Money drives almost all crime, if every transaction is recordered as it will be there will be no way as an example to do a drug transaction or sell stolen goods.

Belgium today has a super computer that can do 10 trillion calculations per minute, if they want they can record and keep track of every transaction we do. This was on the news a few months ago. Big Brother is here, wether you believe it or not.

twindouble

04-25-2006, 08:10 PM

Then for a supposedly large, well-trained, well-armed, and well-financed terrorist organization, they are incredibly ineffective. They had a chance to bring this country to its very knees (if you believe the rhetoric that they are "everywhere") in the days and weeks after 9/11 and they did nothing.

PA, I think your looking at it more or less in a conventional way, they were never in a position to bring us to our knees but almost 3,000 Americans died, not counting many others through out the world. I wouldn't get complacent with these animals, they will hit us again and who's to say with what, when or where? Just think about it, Congressional leaders say they hope to have an immigration bill by the end of the year, what a freaking joke.:bang: When a few more thousand Americans die because they refused to do anything, we should impeach the creeps and jail them.

Tom

04-25-2006, 08:51 PM

Then for a supposedly large, well-trained, well-armed, and well-financed terrorist organization, they are incredibly ineffective. They had a chance to bring this country to its very knees (if you believe the rhetoric that they are "everywhere") in the days and weeks after 9/11 and they did nothing.

Excuse me, but these guys blew up our barracks, diasbled a Navy ship, side stepped every defensiive step we had to offer, and took out the hedquarters of the most powerful military in history. What does it take to be "effective!"

By thier own admission, they had no idea the towers would come down. They probably were not prepared to launch new attacks according to your timetable. They did continue to do world-wide damage - Bala, Spain.
They are incredibly patient and plan things out for years. Don't forget that a fifth plane was stopped from taking off, but although the baggage - loaded with Al Qeda stuff - was found, the "passengers" never were.
There are teams out there today, planning and waiting to go.
They never have been in a postition to take us out at will - they plan, wait, strike when THEY are ready, not YOU.
Evey argument you have made can be said about the 1993 WTC attacks. Look how that one played out.....eventually.

ezpace

04-25-2006, 09:12 PM

drove up the price of crude trading it. with 8000 hedge and pension funds around the world.A lot of that price is trading premium over set price. ihad 10 contracts they had 1000000000000000000000contracts.

so sorrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeEEE ;) ;)

45mpg http://www.dauntlessmotors.com/images/trikes/GL-1800-4.jpg

Lefty

04-25-2006, 09:53 PM

PA, I think your looking at it more or less in a conventional way, they were never in a position to bring us to our knees but almost 3,000 Americans died, not counting many others through out the world. I wouldn't get complacent with these animals, they will hit us again and who's to say with what, when or where? Just think about it, Congressional leaders say they hope to have an immigration bill by the end of the year, what a freaking joke.:bang: When a few more thousand Americans die because they refused to do anything, we should impeach the creeps and jail them.
I understand your fear but the 9-11 crew didn't come through Mexico.
Yes, impeach and jail the ones who take terror seriously after the last admin did not. Please note the dems will bottleneck any immigration bill and use it to blame the admin in next election. Over the last mo. Hillary has sang at least 2 diff tunes on illegal immigration.

lsbets

04-25-2006, 10:22 PM

Here's an interesting chart from Popular Mechanics comparing differents types of fuel:

http://media.popularmechanics.com/documents/Fuel_of_the_Future-e852.pdf

twindouble

04-25-2006, 10:27 PM

I understand your fear but the 9-11 crew didn't come through Mexico.
Yes, impeach and jail the ones who take terror seriously after the last admin did not. Please note the dems will bottleneck any immigration bill and use it to blame the admin in next election. Over the last mo. Hillary has sang at least 2 diff tunes on illegal immigration.

Lefty they got in using ligit visa's, that's issued by the INS. Nothing has changed, anyone can still do the same thing. :bang: and they want to give that defunt operation another 8 billion dollars to squander.

Lefty

04-25-2006, 10:46 PM

td, know how they got in. Hey, vote for the dems. What did Clinton do about anything? Nothing. But he got rich. Dems talk and Repubs do and then you're sore cause they didn't do enough. (editorial you)

PaceAdvantage

04-25-2006, 11:33 PM

Excuse me, but these guys blew up our barracks, diasbled a Navy ship, side stepped every defensiive step we had to offer, and took out the hedquarters of the most powerful military in history. What does it take to be "effective!"

To be effective, they have to achieve their long term goals. Not to belittle the tragedies we have suffered, but knocking down buildings (or attempting to) every 5-10 years just isn't going to achieve their long term goals.

I keep reading in this forum how formidable this terrorist network is and how feared we should all be of their size and scope. I keep reading how they are in our country, seeping over our borders, and have been for YEARS and YEARS. They are our neighbors, just waiting for the signal from the mother ship to unleash their ultimate volley of terror. I also saw a huge opportunity for them to do just this in the days and weeks after 9/11, but there was nothing (thank God!)

You don't agree that this is odd? Why pass up such a golden opportunity to spread real fear and real panic nationwide on US soil? It doesn't make any sense. I know you'll come back at me and say that they don't operate by my (or our) rules, that they have their own timetable. However, I'm not really buying that argument anymore. I think many on here give them entirely too much credit.

Tom

04-25-2006, 11:56 PM

To be effective, they have to achieve their long term goals. Not to belittle the tragedies we have suffered, but knocking down buildings (or attempting to) every 5-10 years just isn't going to achieve their long term goals.

I keep reading in this forum how formidable this terrorist network is and how feared we should all be of their size and scope. I keep reading how they are in our country, seeping over our borders, and have been for YEARS and YEARS. They are our neighbors, just waiting for the signal from the mother ship to unleash their ultimate volley of terror. I also saw a huge opportunity for them to do just this in the days and weeks after 9/11, but there was nothing (thank God!)

You don't agree that this is odd? Why pass up such a golden opportunity to spread real fear and real panic nationwide on US soil? It doesn't make any sense. I know you'll come back at me and say that they don't operate by my (or our) rules, that they have their own timetable. However, I'm not really buying that argument anymore. I think many on here give them entirely too much credit.

Because who are YOU to tell them what their long term goals are or how to achieve them? What do you know about the opportunity open to them? You assume they were ready to strike.
Look, this whole dicussion ios ridiculous because neither of us know what they are planning or when. But history shows them quite capable of hitting us every so often. I am not givnig them all that credit - I am saying we arae getting complacent and lazy and have turned this into a polictal
correctness thing.

How, then, can you support Bush's war on terror when they are so impedent? isn't this a huge waste of money if we are 100% safe? And why sohould we not bring home all the troops today, as Kennedy insits? Makes sense to me, seeing how we are 100% safe.

Need I remind you that 9-11 would have been prevented had people in security jobs had simply done thier jobs that day, under existing security measures.

And right now in Iraq, we are stupid enough to have our troops there as sitting ducks while the terrorists pick them off. When do we act like a real miltiraty and go on the warpath - 3,000 dead, 4,000, 5,000?
We have been there longer than we were in Europe in WWII and still have not secured the cities.
Perhaps it is US who are not all the effective.

Lefty

04-26-2006, 12:09 AM

PA, so right. If they could have "pulled the trigger" 2-3 more times that week they could have devastated this country, at least for a little while.
Now they are on the run and I doubt they can mount anything big. If we relent pull out, then we will have another 9-11. If dems regain power, we're in bigtime trble.

PaceAdvantage

04-26-2006, 12:14 AM

Because who are YOU to tell them what their long term goals are or how to achieve them? What do you know about the opportunity open to them? You assume they were ready to strike.

I think we all know what their long term goals are....they have stated them quite publicly on numerous occasions. And it sure looked to all of us they were ready to strike on the morning of 9/11.

How, then, can you support Bush's war on terror when they are so impedent? isn't this a huge waste of money if we are 100% safe? And why sohould we not bring home all the troops today, as Kennedy insits? Makes sense to me, seeing how we are 100% safe.

I never said we were 100% safe! Far from it....

Need I remind you that 9-11 would have been prevented had people in security jobs had simply done thier jobs that day, under existing security measures.

EXACTLY! Which is another reason why I don't understand why this organization gets the credit that it does from some on this board.

Tom

04-26-2006, 10:53 AM

Of course you are correct.
There is not real threat to us,they are on the run.
We are fighting them over there, not here.
Too bad we weren't winning over there.
And it is all the dems fault, of course.
Al Qeda is nothing compared to the threat libs present.
9-11 was a fluke, they got lucky.
Uh huh.

Ok, we have established we not 100% safe, and not 0% safe.
Where would you put the real threat level?
10-15-25% ??

Tom

04-26-2006, 11:51 AM

There is no way Al Qeda could infiltrate America...no way!

JustRalph

04-26-2006, 04:17 PM

How would you like to be Al Zaquirawi??? This guy is living only at night......he has guards on his door every minute and if a friggin plane gets within 5 miles he thinks the Predator is about to blow his ass to the Land of Virgins........gotta be the same thing for Bin Laden. Except he is in a cave somewhere........damp and musty..........no utilities.......etc.........whatta life for a multimillionaire.

We will probably find out that Bin Laden is living in Monte Carlo somewhere....... .......

Ponyplayr

04-26-2006, 05:10 PM

Support for the Secretary of defence grows.:rolleyes:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12482934/site/newsweek/

skate

04-26-2006, 05:38 PM

First reason:
Since regean, the esccalation is alarming. your figure says debt 265% of GDP.

yo yo yo , now how do i put this politely?
that figure you gave is tons closer to 2.65%.

i would like to hear, how do you arrive at such a figure and whoever else is going to use this figure you give of the economy.

simply put, our economy is doing about $12 trillion per year and or debt (without the war, which is real)is bout $400 billion at most.

like i say, i'm being polite.
hey, you don't work for the CIA, do ya?

skatin

PS, ya know, just maybe, this might be the missing link as to why so many people in our country are having such a tough time understanding what is a very simple economic situation to understand.

skate

04-28-2006, 03:21 PM

ya , russia gettin ready for a big pipe line to flow in about 5 or 6 months.

so they gotta start shorting oil, price per barrel will be down around $45 before they release that oil.

maybe not today, but soon, real soooonnn.
skatesss

hcap

05-02-2006, 07:49 AM

http://www.bartcop.com/pretend-oil-bastards.gif

ceejay

05-02-2006, 10:08 AM

For those who think that oil companies are the only ones profiting here.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060502/ap_on_bi_ge/earns_adm_1

Lefty

05-02-2006, 11:39 AM

hcap, the cartoon is about as ridiculous as those who blve it. We all know why gas is so high and if ya don't know by now, where ya been?

Ponyplayr

05-02-2006, 12:19 PM

For those who think that oil companies are the only ones profiting here.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060502/ap_on_bi_ge/earns_adm_1
So true...Here are a couple of families profiting from oil http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/11/22/171616.shtml

http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=l+Gore+Family+Oil&page=1&offset=1&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3Dc 255deadbef18770%26clickedItemRank%3D4%26userQuery% 3Dl%2BGore%2BFamily%2BOil%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp% 253A%252F%252Farchives.econ.utah.edu%252Farchives% 252Fpen-l%252F2000m07.1%252Fmsg00087.htm%26invocationType% 3D-%26fromPage%3DMyNS%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Farchives.econ.utah.edu%2Fa rchives%2Fpen-l%2F2000m07.1%2Fmsg00087.htm

skate

05-02-2006, 03:20 PM

tom tom ;

oh my goodness. tom says we are getting lazy,complacent , he says.and that we turned this into a political deal.

now just who is it that's getting lazy? seems like action on Afgan and Iraq (maters not the ending) are the opposite of what you say.
and "political" you say, now who in the beee-jesuuss started, continues and forever stigmatizes this situation?

oh what the...

i'm sure you have a better plan. but you are backing off until the right time.

Tom

05-02-2006, 03:33 PM

If gas prices went up a result of oil prices, wouldn't one assume the oil comapany profts to grow at the same rate, or close to it, as barrel prices?

Vegas711

05-03-2006, 03:31 PM

My local gas station had the following prices for their unleaded gas.

2.59 , then it jumps to 2.79, then it slowly drops to 2.63, a day latter it jumps to 2.85, then it drops to 2.73, 2 days latter it jumps to 2.85, over 5 days it drops to 2.62 this holds for 2 days, today it is 2.90.

Something tells me that my local gas station is also taking advantage. They get their gas once every 4 days. On day 1 they sell it for 2.69 ,on day 2,3,and 4 they sell it for 2.84. This is the SAME gas they bought and sold for 2.69.Only conclusion my local gas station is making a killing on days 2,3,and4

Tom

05-03-2006, 05:46 PM

Would you sell your house for the price you paid forit or the market price?
It is irelevant what the gas in the tanks cost, just like it is in any other retail market. Whenthe price of beans goes up, all the cans on the shelf go up, not jsut a certain shipment.

BTW, take Exxon for example. Thier 8 billion dollar profit - only about 25% of it is in the US - the rest is worldwide. That 2 billion rewards the investors, many of whom are retirement funds, pension acconts, etc.
Bottom line, oil companies exis to make money for their investors, not the general public. If you want to point fingers at gougers, point at the government who makes more per gallon of gas than Exxon does.

Vegas711

05-06-2006, 03:12 AM

I left out some info, what i also saw happening is that Super America my states dominant Gas station is the service station that manipulates the prices in our area. They are the first to raise the price at the pump, others then will either match them or undercut them.They then will respond to what the others do.The smaller stations are almost always the first to lower the prices.

My main point that I tried to make in my last post is that service stations are just as guilty as anyone else when it comes to the high price we pay. They argue that they are not making huge profits on their gas, I feel that this is not true. Does someone have the right to make huge profits on what they sell ? my answer is that it depends on what they are selling. If they want to sell something for a huge profit that is a non essential product I do not have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is when there is a collaboration among businesses to drive huge profits on essential products.Oil is something most people need, it should not be sold at so much that it causes people to forfiet other essential things becouse they can't afford it.

Tom

05-06-2006, 11:14 AM

Buy oil stock - the shareholders are getting money off of them - pension funds, portfolios, etc. You cap oil prices, you cap investments.

Who says all gas purchases are necessary? Why penalize oil companies when atuo manufactures ignore fuel standards? The national average of fuel mileage is actually less today than in 1980 - when do you regulate the automakers?
When you do regulate them, what happens to all the support industries that will feel the ripple effects?

Messing with businesses is risky - do you relaly think there is anyone SMART enough in our governemtn to do it the right way? You have more faith than I do:lol:

The fastes, most effective way to cut prices and relieve the cost burden is to cut taxes - someting government is not likely to do. That is the best short term, containment measure.
Make a rule - the taxe rate is alway 75% of the profit per gallon. That way, it fluctuates with prices, and we get flucted less often!

46zilzal

05-07-2006, 06:03 PM

$5.00 per gallon is already here. $1.20 a liter this weekend

skate

05-07-2006, 06:15 PM

well, exxon sales went up 8% and their profit went up 7%.

and i can think of 3 companys(non-oil cos.)who had profits go up twice as high as exxon, can anyone name them?
i'm sure many more are out there.

ya really gotta think this thing thru a little more, come on now, who's kidding whose???

gees, graduation is a coming

JustRalph

05-07-2006, 06:24 PM

$5.00 per gallon is already here. $1.20 a liter this weekend

lets confine ourselves to non communist countries.............

Tom

05-07-2006, 07:01 PM

Here's some hybrid info I picked on Bob Brinker today:

1. They won't improve mileage much on the highway - only in stop and go traffic. In fact, if you drive mostly 60-70-80 mph on the higway, you might get less mileage due the increased weight in hydrids.

2. Some hybrids get nowhere near the mileage as regual cars already out there. In some new SUV hybrids, the improvement might be only going from 14-16 mph o 16-18 mph. Yet you still get the $6500 tax credit. However, if you buy a Honda with 32 mph, no tax credit.

It was suggested that this is a back door bail out of the auto companies.

so.cal.fan

05-08-2006, 12:24 PM

Here in California our gas prices are about the highest, if not the highest in the U.S.
I would like to know why?
I'm voting against all incumbents, regardless of political party in the coming election. I urge all other Californians to do the same.
:mad:

Lefty

05-08-2006, 12:27 PM

Prob with you guys in CA is you been electing too many dems for too long. They control your legislature. It's the dems that have thwarted oil exploration and refinery building in this country. The demand is high, supply can't meet it, and we don't have enough refineries if it did.

so.cal.fan

05-08-2006, 12:45 PM

My husband and I were just talking about this, and we have both decided to vote against all incumbents.
We haven't heard ANY of our elected officials, be they Dems or Reps....give any indication of taking any action whatsoever to correct our troubles.
We are fed up. I hope all voters feel the same way, we had a small example of this in my little town.
Our city council was not doing what the large majority of voters in town wanted, so we got rid of them. Democracy does work, but we have to pay attention and care and then go VOTE. I say VOTE the bums out!

Tom

05-08-2006, 01:03 PM

Voting against incumbents is always a good idea - keep all of them from getting comfortable and learning the ropes.
The premise is all pols are crooked and liars, so keep rotating them.

I paid $2.98 yesterday - they are running Sunday specials at the corner.
Back up around $3.09 today.

Something HAS to be done about this - it now affecting the whol eeconomy - prices are going up on anything that is delivered or transportatin related. Inflation is just around the corner.

Why doesn't Bush just declare there are WMD in the Gulf, off the coast of California, and in Anwar then go in and search for them.....wtih drills.:lol:

lsbets

05-08-2006, 01:16 PM

If ever there was a year where a third party could have a really strong showing, this is it, but there is no third party out there with a message that appeals to the great middle of American voters. Bush's popularity sucks, and so does the leadership in Congress', but that hasn't done anything to help the numbers of the opposition. The message from the American people seems to be you all suck, we don't trust any of you, and none of you have an honest agenda for ordinary people. I don't think either party could respond to that message with any credibility, and since there is no viable third party, we will be left with more of the same come November. The worst mistake the Dems are making (for themselves) is assuming that Bush's unpopularity translates into agreement with their message. Running with a message of we're not him does not inspire voters. So November will boil down to whose base comes out, and since most districts are ridiculously gerrymandered, the incumbent's base will be the one coming out and nothing will change come November.

Tom

05-08-2006, 03:22 PM

Yeah, ls, what is happening is people area turning their backs on THESE republicans, but turning to different repulbicans. Nobody is desperate enough to actually look to democrats for solutions.
:lol::lol::lol:

skate

05-08-2006, 03:24 PM

Bingo, because you drive more than other states and your taxes are higher, and your cost of living is higher.

that's why.....

so.cal.fan;
""""Here in California our gas prices are about the highest, if not the highest in the U.S.
I would like to know why?
I'm voting against all incumbents, regardless of political party in the coming election. I urge all other Californians to do the same.
:mad:""""

hey, you can still vote against whatever, and that should get you....?

another daa

skate

05-08-2006, 03:30 PM

fuel prices are now falling. so maybe we should buy a little more, just to keep the profits high.

six mos. from now we'll be looking at $45.00/ barrel. and a tri crown winner with 11 consecutive wins.

JustRalph

05-08-2006, 06:08 PM

http://media.putfile.com/Water-Fuel

check this guys invention out. This guy seems to be the real thing too......working with the military............

PaceAdvantage

05-08-2006, 06:44 PM

http://media.putfile.com/Water-Fuel

check this guys invention out. This guy seems to be the real thing too......working with the military............

I'm surprised this guy is still alive....:eek:

Just kidding. Sort of. Seems to me, Big Oil might not be too fond of his invention. I've always heard about water powered cars, but that torch really blew my mind. It almost seems to work the exact opposite of a microwave oven, if I am interpretting what I saw correctly.

That torch did not seem hot when touched with the human hand (which is FULL of water), but it burned a hole clear through brick and turned a brass ball red hot in only a few seconds (both materials devoid of water).

Very interesting stuff....

Steve 'StatMan'

05-08-2006, 08:25 PM

I'm all for compact cars to save fuel, but this might be too compact!

Thanks to a person named Duffy who submitted this picture of his Dad on www.comcast.net today. Hope he doesn't mind (well, it is on the Comcast home page, so probably not.) They are obviously both fun loving!

schweitz

05-08-2006, 09:52 PM

http://newsbusters.org/node/5260

Tom

05-08-2006, 10:42 PM

Ralph, you sure that wasn't Denny CRANE? :jump:

so.cal.fan

05-09-2006, 11:04 AM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12676374/

Lefty

05-09-2006, 11:53 AM

They have discovered huge new oil deposits in Utah and Nevada. We have plenty of oil right here at home, we just need to go get it. How about it obstructionists?

This ethanol craze belies the belief that oil companies are gouging us. Wouldn't the same big business contol ethanol and would also gouge us, if the gouging reports are true? But if it's supply and demand, then it makes sense. But somehow, if we ever get ethanol production going, you can bet your bippie the libdems will find a way to call it harmful and there ya go again.

JustRalph

05-10-2006, 08:44 PM

Based on the push on TV -- and the GM commercials touting their ethanol friendly hybrid cars -- I suspect that between being forced to drill for oil in Alaska SOMEDAY and the push to use ethanol, gasoline prices will come down.

Harley is testing a new hybrid motorcycle..........

http://www.rvi.net/~mdhorban/hybridmotorcycle.htm

Tom

05-10-2006, 09:54 PM

What do a Harley and a vacumm cleaner have in common?

A dirt bag! :lol:

Tom

05-10-2006, 09:55 PM

Just kidding!

Lefty

05-10-2006, 10:36 PM

Not so long ago, people were converting cars to diesel and propane cause of high cost of gas, so what happens, you guessed it.

JustRalph

05-10-2006, 10:45 PM

What do a Harley and a vacumm cleaner have in common?

A dirt bag! :lol:

You wanna know what the difference between the two is?

On a Harley, the dirtbag rides on the outside.................... :p

Tom

05-10-2006, 11:19 PM

You wanna know what the difference between the two is?

On a Harley, the dirtbag rides on the outside.................... :p

THAT was it! I got it wrong...thanks.

Tom

05-10-2006, 11:20 PM

...you can bet your bippie the libdems will find a way to call it harmful and there ya go again.

Lefty, funny you called them "libdems"...I was thinking tonight about calling them "demlibs!":D

Great minds think alike!

hcap

05-12-2006, 07:22 AM

Bwana bush broke 30% today.

29% on Harris interactive.

"libdems", "demlibs, "Great minds think alike"
Yeah sure, guys. Maybe try naming yourselves.
How'bout......

Dimwit, witdim?? :D :D

ljb

05-12-2006, 09:08 AM

Personally, I think witdims has a nice ring to it. :D

JustRalph

05-12-2006, 10:08 AM

No worse than "The Perch!"
http://www.geordielife.com/Ugly%20Fish_small.jpg

Tom

05-12-2006, 11:41 AM

Personally, I think witdims has a nice ring to it. :D

But no reltation to anything. You have no clue as to what makes a joke, so give up trying. Dem libs and libdems actually use reality to make a pardy...

Lefty

05-12-2006, 11:49 AM

Bwana bush broke 30% today.

29% on Harris interactive.

"libdems", "demlibs, "Great minds think alike"
Yeah sure, guys. Maybe try naming yourselves.
How'bout......

Dimwit, witdim?? :D :D

Surprise surprise. When the mainstream press not educating the pipples why gas is high, not reporting any good accomplished in Iraq, and ignoring this record breaking economy or actually lying about it, well, it's not surprising at all, is it? Wanna Rolaid?

ljb

05-12-2006, 03:20 PM

But no reltation to anything. You have no clue as to what makes a joke, so give up trying. Dem libs and libdems actually use reality to make a pardy...
Ok I'll go with dim wits. that has a relation to many here, really ! :lol:

ljb

05-12-2006, 03:22 PM

Surprise surprise. When the mainstream press not educating the pipples why gas is high, not reporting any good accomplished in Iraq, and ignoring this record breaking economy or actually lying about it, well, it's not surprising at all, is it? Wanna Rolaid?
Sorry Lefty but,
The mainstream press is finally growing their gonads back and reporting some of the truth. This may hurt, so prepare yourself.

Tom

05-12-2006, 04:10 PM

Ok I'll go with dim wits. that has a relation to many here, really ! :lol:

*sigh* where is your orignality, L, oh, wait, you are a lib - you have none!

I guess if the righties are the dim wits, and you lefties can't beat us in any election, that makes you, what.......NIT wits? :lol:

ljb

05-12-2006, 09:15 PM

*sigh* where is your orignality, L, oh, wait, you are a lib - you have none!

I guess if the righties are the dim wits, and you lefties can't beat us in any election, that makes you, what.......NIT wits? :lol:
Yes the rightys stole another election and now we are all paying the consequences. Some of the dim wits here still don't understand, based on your posts regarding illegals and outsourcing etc. you are not one of them.

lukeelisa

05-12-2006, 09:52 PM

PaceAdvantage

05-12-2006, 11:22 PM

Sorry Lefty but,
The mainstream press is finally growing their gonads back and reporting some of the truth. This may hurt, so prepare yourself.

If I had a nickle for every time you told me to prepare myself, I'd be a very wealthy guy....nothing ever happens though....why is that?

Lefty

05-13-2006, 12:26 AM

so what alot of people are working big deal they cant go out ,they have to stay home because gas prices are so high, home ownership is at its highest but who cares you wont ever see them they are to busy working two jobs to make their hose note they dont have any free time, i bet the big car makers are going to lay off anytime soon,

luke, I don't know a single soul who is staying home because of high gas prices. They are driving, car pooling and taking public transportation. But if someone is staying home because of gas prices, they have the dems to thank.

Lefty

05-13-2006, 12:27 AM

Yes the rightys stole another election and now we are all paying the consequences. Some of the dim wits here still don't understand, based on your posts regarding illegals and outsourcing etc. you are not one of them.
More lib whining. Between you libs' whining and outright negativety, you're a mess.

ljb

05-13-2006, 08:10 AM

More lib whining. Between you libs' whining and outright negativety, you're a mess.
No whining here, just facing the facts or in other words "getting real". :rolleyes:

ljb

05-13-2006, 08:16 AM

If I had a nickle for every time you told me to prepare myself, I'd be a very wealthy guy....nothing ever happens though....why is that?
I don't recall ever telling you to prepare yourself. I was suggesting Lefty prepare himself. However if you feel the need to prepare yourself for the truth please do so. If a nickle makes it easier to do, let me know. I'd be glad to send you a nickle.
I suppose you consider Bush's dismal ratings nothing.

Tom

05-13-2006, 10:48 AM

Can anyone point me in the direction of just exactly what benefits we derived from the massive tax breaks Bush granted the oil companies? Those couple with the records setting profits should certainly have paid off by now, no?
Or, have they paid off, but not to us?

If anyone thinks the continual rising gas prices will not bring down this economy, they are nuts.

so.cal.fan

05-13-2006, 11:05 AM

Tom is right, I was going to rent a car a couple of days this week, to do errands while my husband was at work (we only have one car).
I usually do this when I need an extra car. Rent one for $25 to $30 per day from nearby Avis, where I'm a good long term customer.
I thought about having to put in an extra $20 worth of gas, did my errands early with our car instead.
Was going to rent one today, to go down to Santa Anita, but decided to take the bus and walk a few extra blocks.
I can afford to rent a car and can afford the gas but it's the idea of how expensive it is to drive that is putting me off. How many more people like me? Not to mention the poor souls who just flat can't afford the high price of fuel.
Not a good thing. I suppose we will get used to it, however, again Tom is right.

Lefty

05-13-2006, 11:53 AM

lukeelisa

05-13-2006, 01:00 PM

i found this site that finds cheap gas in your area www.gaspricewatch.com (http://www.gaspricewatch.com)

46zilzal

05-13-2006, 03:23 PM

i found this site that finds cheap gas in your area www.gaspricewatch.com (http://www.gaspricewatch.com)
when I was growing up there was a gas station around the corner and FOR YEARS the price for regular varied between 17.9 and 19.9/gallon. Of course a 15 cent Hershey bar was enromous compared to today as well.

Tom

05-13-2006, 03:24 PM

Lefty, there are no facts to support those ridiculous claims - everything was legally done and they know it - just can't face facts. The typical lib move - and we see it here every day - is to say something over and over again until they think somebody will believe them.

hehehehe.....demlibs are something else.

Luk...if you want cheap gas, you won't any more than is right here in Off Topics!

Thanks for the site - I found some for $2.99 and am out the door right now!

Vegas711

05-13-2006, 04:35 PM

when I was growing up there was a gas station around the corner and FOR YEARS the price for regular varied between 17.9 and 19.9/gallon. Of course a 15 cent Hershey bar was enromous compared to today as well.

Gas for 18 cents a gallon ? Did you see Bonnie and Clyde while you were filling up your tank?

The lowest I can remember gas being sold for was 90 cents per gallon and that is going back a while.

46zilzal

05-13-2006, 04:52 PM

Gas for 18 cents a gallon ? Did you see Bonnie and Clyde while you were filling up your tank?

The lowest I can remember gas being sold for was 90 cents per gallon and that is going back a while.
have to remember California had active oil wells are refineries within a stone's throw of my house, and this was in the late 50's early 60's.

Tom

05-13-2006, 05:45 PM

have to remember California had active oil wells are refineries within a stone's throw of my house, and this was in the late 50's early 60's.

If only the dems hadn't handcuffed that scenario, gas might be under $2.00 and homegrown to boot!

46zilzal

05-13-2006, 06:26 PM

If only the dems hadn't handcuffed that scenario, gas might be under $2.00 and homegrown to boot!
now you are sounding like lefty. NO ONE PARTY is to blame. POLITICIANS are the responsible: ones from all points of the political compass. heck, it was FDR who made the first oil deals with Saudi Arabia and all of them since have made deals with the devil

then there is this;DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Corp. said Friday it will stop building the gas-guzzling Hummer H1 truck, a military-style status symbol with poor sales, and focus its resources instead on better-selling vehicles.

Tom

05-14-2006, 12:36 AM

Spin spin spin.
You are shotgunning again to confure the specifics with vast generalities.
You should script yourself some Ritalin.

Lefty

05-14-2006, 01:03 AM

vegas, wow you must be young. I rememember 19cent gas and in 76 in Vegas, it was 55cents.

NoDayJob

05-14-2006, 02:31 AM

:D Here it is in a nut shell... unicycles. Our beloved Congress passes manditory legislation requiring every able bodied man, woman and child to use unicycles as their mode of transportation... this includes Congress and the President. This will wean us off oil, make most people healthier and use less steel, aluminum, rubber, concrete, coal, water, et cetera. The tree huggers will be happier too ... no polution except for the occassional passing of wind while peddling up hill. The United States will become the world's financial super power due the the full employment of all able bodied adults engaged in the manufacture of unicycles... no shipping manufacturing jobs overseas here. As the world's financial super power we will no longer need a standing army as we'll be able to buy off any threat of aggression. I'm e-mailing my representive and senator right now... how about you? :D

Lefty

05-14-2006, 02:41 AM

there's a kid in my neighborhood that rides a unicycle all around. Today he was riding a bicycle. I hollered at him. "Glad to see you found your other wheel."
I walk all over the neighborhhod; get good mileage.

karlskorner

05-14-2006, 08:22 AM

As a child I remember the Texaco station on the corner was selling gas 5 gallons for $1.00 ( mid 30's ) Of course to put everything in perspective, people were earning $12.00/$20.00 per week and yet the minium wager at Belmont was $2.00. You have to live through a depression, a couple of wars and a recession to realize how good you really got it.

ljb

05-14-2006, 08:50 AM

lbj, when you keep saying the R's stole elerctions, where are those facts?Do you even know fact from opinion. You and many others are whiners. The first step in beating your problem is recognizing you have a problem.
Lefty,
When did this board start requiring facts ? :D Ok let me put it another way. The conservative U.S. Supreme court stepped on states rights when they overturned Florida's supreme court decision regarding Floridia's votes. The result of this was a disaster. :D Need I say more ?

46zilzal

05-14-2006, 11:33 AM

Spin spin spin.
You are shotgunning again to confure the specifics with vast generalities.
You should script yourself some Ritalin.
Ritilan is dangerous at my age.

Tom

05-14-2006, 11:35 AM

Lefty,
When did this board start requiring facts ? :D Ok let me put it another way. The conservative U.S. Supreme court stepped on states rights when they overturned Florida's supreme court decision regarding Floridia's votes. The result of this was a disaster. :D Need I say more ?

The truth would be nice, for a change. Since when is it states rights to cherry pick what votes to count and what ones to ignore?

46zilzal

05-14-2006, 11:37 AM

The truth would be nice, for a change. Since when is it states rights to cherry pick what votes to count and what ones to ignore?
Since K Harris. and her minions disqualified many a registered voter and did not count many of the votes CAST.

B.S. is so transparent yet no one will DO anything about it. Same thing happend in the 1870's in the same damn state by the same damn party. Samuel Tilden got shafted by Rutherford B. Hayes.

Tom

05-14-2006, 11:50 AM

Since K Harris. and her minions disqualified many a registered voter and did not count many of the votes CAST.

Yeah, keep telling yourself that.

lsbets

05-14-2006, 11:53 AM

Yeah, keep telling yourself that.

Tom, the facts are irrelevant, 46 lives on Fantasy Island. He's not 6'3, he just thinks he is because of Tattoo.

46zilzal

05-14-2006, 11:56 AM

Tom, the facts are irrelevant, 46 lives on Fantasy Island. He's not 6'3, he just thinks he is because of Tattoo.
you have the imgination of a yak with subacute sclerosing pan encephalitis

Lefty

05-14-2006, 11:56 AM

Lefty,
When did this board start requiring facts ? :D Ok let me put it another way. The conservative U.S. Supreme court stepped on states rights when they overturned Florida's supreme court decision regarding Floridia's votes. The result of this was a disaster. :D Need I say more ?
I always trie to ground my opinions in fact, but that's just me. The Supreme Court overuled the Fla Court because the Fla Court overstepped it's bounderies. K Harris has every right to do what she did, it was her job. So more sour grapes from libs with no facts.