PIZZOLLA'S seminar tapes are out.

[Vegas711]

I just recieved Mike Pizzollas AD for his seminar tapes from last Octobers seminar they are priced at $400.00 seems high to me I was expecting it to be around $250.00 I was just wondering if it is worth this much. Any input?

[dav4463]

I got my letter today. The price is a bit steep isn't it?

[andicap]

Didn't we finally figure out the last mailing -- with the can't lose black box system - was a hype job?

Do we know of anyone who made money with those expensive angles?? (I can't recall the name of Pizzolla's partner, the one who had the angles.)

[AQUEBUCKS]

The guy's name is Dan Serra and the new program with his handicapping methods is the Professional Handicapper. A friend of mine has it, and I have seen it in action. It uses the same data files as TMM. Pretty much a longshot picking program. If you play multiple tracks and pick your spots you can catch some nice prices throughout the day.

I have TMM, but have not used in a while. Don't really bet that much anymore, maybe once or twice a month using the ragozin's. If someone is interested in the whole TMM mega package w/laptop. you can e-mail me. Aquebucks@yahoo.com

[Tom]

Didn't we finally figure out the last mailing -- with the can't lose black box system - was a hype job?

Do we know of anyone who made money with those expensive angles?? (I can't recall the name of Pizzolla's partner, the one who had the angles.)

If the last one worked so good, who would buy this one? ;)

[sjmeola]

Hi

Well since I was unable to get to the last seminar and its been over 10 years since my last one, I have also gotten the flyer and have decided to buy the package.

They are waiting for the manuals to get back from printing and was told my order will ship on friday. I should have it middle of next week..

Has anyone here gone to the last seminar ?

It seems like the magiacian aproach sure is ever evloving !

I was able to talk to Michael last week telling him I am planing my first Vegas trip ever this may and would he be able to make himself available for even a small visit, and he graciously agreed to get together during my trip.

I been one of his faithful students since it all started and still and probably always will think that Pizzolla is an honest and up front guy in the racing industry.

3 computer programs, 1 book and a tape series(master key to handicapping tape series) in a time span of about 15 years does not look like a run of the mill system or software seller who is out to get my money !!

This game is getting harder and harder in my opinion each year, with shorter fields and more chalk than I have ever seen! I feel the need to stay current and hope that this kit and course will do just that.

397 ? steep price ? maybe a bit yes, but with the full moeny back gauarantee i figured its a no brainer for me ! tho I must admit knowing and having almost everything he has done in the past, I DOUBT I will be asking for a refund..

Andy: I understand your concerns on the Dan Sera flyer and that program !
Here is my take on it..

I got the brochure and read it and decided not to purchase it.
to me it looked like Pizzolla was helping a coligue out by endorsing the software. As far as the actual program and its merit I cant sAY ! I have never seen it or used it..

I really like the TMM Especially the ability to look AT A lot of races in a fast amount of time giving me more flexability and being able to multitrack and really get selective in the races I get into. I have always lived or died by the ppf and have done far bettter than I ever imagined, tho I am in the process of doing a 3000 race workout in my spare time from playing the races and the results when finished may make me rethink a few things..

I Use to bet win double place and onll consider horses at 9-1 or higher but have recently decided to become a win only player making the loosing streaks far softer.....

Bye for now !

Sam

[kingfin66]

Hi Sam,

I have never had the pleasure of exchanging posts with you. You will be happy you got the seminar tapes. $400 may seem like a lot to some people, but you have to consider that there is some expense involved in making these DVD's. The picture and sound quality are outstanding as is the seminar material.

Has anyone here gone to the last seminar ?

I did and enjoyed it immensely. The Magician appoach has indeed evolved.

I was able to talk to Michael last week telling him I am planing my first Vegas trip ever this may and would he be able to make himself available for even a small visit, and he graciously agreed to get together during my trip.

That is not surprising at all. Have a great time in Vegas. Your breath will be taken away by all the huge casino resorts.

I been one of his faithful students since it all started and still and probably always will think that Pizzolla is an honest and up front guy in the racing industry.

Those who know me on this board and elsewhere know that I agree with this statement. Some people think his prices are steep. I actually find his prices reasonable (ok, I thought the asking price was high on The Professional Handicapper) and have always felt that I have gotten more than my money's worth. Consider that I recently saw a flier for a Cary Fotias seminar in Las Vegas with an asking price of $2000 per person and $400 for seminar DVD's seems awfully reasonable.

3 computer programs, 1 book and a tape series(master key to handicapping tape series) in a time span of about 15 years does not look like a run of the mill system or software seller who is out to get my money !!

For some reason it is okay for some people to sell their software, etc. and make a buck, but not for others. Go figure. Yes, the man is running a business. The business is trying to make money and stay in business.

This game is getting harder and harder in my opinion each year, with shorter fields and more chalk than I have ever seen! I feel the need to stay current and hope that this kit and course will do just that.

Boy is that ever true. Although it is nice to stay current, the "simple" approach that you explained at the end of your post packs quite a wallop in my opinion.

Andy: I understand your concerns on the Dan Sera flyer and that program !
Here is my take on it..

I got the brochure and read it and decided not to purchase it.
to me it looked like Pizzolla was helping a coligue out by endorsing the software. As far as the actual program and its merit I cant sAY ! I have never seen it or used it..

The sales brochure did come on pretty strong for TPH. I would guess that Michael would love to take a mulligan on that one. Keep in mind that TPH is a totally separate product than TMM. It was marketed to TMMers like myself by the inclusion of Reversal Protocol, but everything else is totally unique to that particular software. Tom's question about why would he need to sell this one [seminar DVD's] if the other one is so great is really nonsensical since they are two unrelated things.

I really like the TMM Especially the ability to look AT A lot of races in a fast amount of time giving me more flexability and being able to multitrack and really get selective in the races I get into. I have always lived or died by the ppf and have done far bettter than I ever imagined, tho I am in the process of doing a 3000 race workout in my spare time from playing the races and the results when finished may make me rethink a few things..

A man after my own heart (no, not like that!). Workouts of the type that you are doing are really beneficial as they assist greatly in pattern recognition and developing your own nuances to using the program.

I Use to bet win double place and onll consider horses at 9-1 or higher but have recently decided to become a win only player making the loosing streaks far softer.....

I think the win/double place is more useful when betting lower priced horses. When betting the higher priced horses, the 8/1, 9/1, or beyond horses, it is better to bet win only as these pigs are just as likely, or even more likely, to run out of the money as they are to win. I'm sure that your workout has shown this to be true. With those higher priced horses you're probably hitting in the 14-16% range but with a good ROI.

Take care. Good post, and continued good racing.

[Wickel]

I have no doubt MP is an upstanding guy, and his products over the years have helped many. My problem is--like many other 'cappers--the price. I've never attended any seminars; in fact I just purchased TMM last year, but I've kept informed on his products throughut the years.

A lot of this new stuff can't be brand new--it has to be bits and pieces from all his products--products that we have purchased in supporting him throughout the years. So this new package almost certainly is a bit of a rehash from previous seminars, products, etc. They can't be much different from TMM tapes, other than a few upgrades.

If I remember correctly, he charged nearly $500 for his last seminar, and the cost of this package is nearly as steep. That's crazy. I could see maybe $200 or $250, but $400 is absurb, especially for fellow magicians.

In MP's defense, there is a 30-day guarantee and, for the first time, a three-installment payment plan. Maybe he's starting to loosen up.

wkl

[LaughAndBeMerry]

Can someone please provide the website for TMM? Is there a trial version available or is it a pay before you try product?

Thanks,
LBM

[Niko]

I'm sitting on the fence on this one. I was disappointed and returned TPH within the 30 days and it was honored very quickly....so the good news if anyone is concerned that it won't be worth it, he is very upstanding and you'll get a full refund no questions asked if you return it within the 30 days trial period. TPH was probably valuable for some but it wasn't anything new for me per se and wasn't worth it.

On the other hand I've improved my game from other material he's provided, I'd just hate to send something else back right away, if need be. I'm leery that it's just a rehash of old concepts in new clothing--reversals, 3rd off lay-off,
fast-slow pace races, short priced bounce candidates..but only one way to find out...

Price: $400 is a lot, and it's not. If you get a good concept you can make much more than $400 (or save yourself more from bad bets) I'd rather have him sell half the number of copies for twice the price if I'm going to use it...too many people will depress the prices on the horses.

As for the advertising piece--ignore it, all hype....it must work because they're writing essentially the same copyright they have the last 6-8 years.

[Vegas711]

I went ahead and ordered the tapes I made it very clear that if I did not win atleast 1/2 the purchase price within the 30 days that I would return the tapes, they said no problem so the way I figure it ,is that I have nothing to lose by giving it a try except for paying for the postage.

[Donnie]

$500 to attend a seminar? $2000 for another?? Wow!
Massa must be all loopy! He asks for a $40 donation, then turns around and runs a contest in the middle of the presentation and rewards cash prizes! BTW- his seminar date is always the Wed before the Gold Coast's Summer Classic. This year that falls on July 19th. If you're in the neighborhood, stop in and say hi!
Nope...he doesn't sell DVD's of his presentation...you gotta be there!

[Wickel]

Laugh: The Website address is: www.posttimedaily.com Never heard of MP offering any demos or trials, though. Good luck.

[kingfin66]

Cost of the 2005 Handicapping Magic Seminar: $395.

Ken Massa: I can't speak to his mental state, but I can say that I have heard many good things about him. Loopy. That's a good one.

[Blackgold]

I got 'em a couple weeks ago. . . as I've been on the phone for months asking about their availability and got mine shipped the day the first batch was ready.

I'm happy with every dime I've every spent with MP and Co. and only regret that I have never had the time to attend any of the seminars.

Good luck!

[Wickel]

I might have been a bit too harsh on MP in my previous post. I, too, respect his work immensely. My main concern over his new Advanced Mastering Course is this: What's different from the original TMM tapes? Is the course all new material that was presented at the last seminar, or just refined stuff from past offerings?

I've listened to the TMM tapes a couple of times, but never purchased them when I bought the software (privately). Thanks.

[mhrussell]

At the Oct. 2005 Seminar Michael presented several new advanced form patterns (Type 1,1A, 2, 2A, Power class move) as well as something he calls the Power Target which is a similar, companion idea to the Fulcrum.
These were brand NEW topics and ideas, never before presented, that for me, were well worth attending the seminar. They have worked well for Michael over the years.

As mentioned before, the DVDs are well done (audio and video) and I felt honored to have been asked to present and be a part of this seminar. It was a lot of fun, and as always, I learned a lot from everyone there.

But to be clear, there were several NEW concepts presented so it certainly was not a 're-hash' of material previously presented in prior Seminars.

best,

[Wickel]

Thanks, Matt. Might give the course a shot.

[sjmeola]

Well The Mastery Course Has arrived ! :) A Day Earlier Than expected

14 dvd's
14 audio cd's
and a large workbook with forms,charts,techniques and a data cd with all the races and result files.

Is A lot to handle, so it might be a while before I actually comment on the Course.

everything is professionally produced and looks great !!

Sam

[ezpace]

they could handicapp and gamble and if what they sell is any good long term,,assuming they backtested it,,, they wouldn't have to sell anything.

[ezpace]

which program sales guy was it that bet every horse in the race to show his customers that he had the winner, until one of them asked the teller, who busted him. HARRRRRRRRRRRR ROfLMAO

[cato]

I've been to several of the MP seminars in the past, Candidly they were getting a bit stale but I used them as excuses to go to Vegas and get some good sports book time in.

I almost did not go to this seminar becasue I was a little disappointed in the last one I attended

But, this seminar was the best in many years-- new stuff, better organized, new ways to look at things. So I thought it was very helpful and well worth the $. Those of you who use TMM or like hearing a smart, interesting person talk about handicapping for 2 days should consider getting the tapes (and if you don't like the send them back).

Cheers, Cato

[Wickel]

I'm still awaiting the reviews from MP's Advanced Mastery Course. Several of you posted on here that you purchased the course. What's the verdict?

[Vegas711]

I am almost done with the tapes whether they are worth the price , the jury is still out. Ideas that sound informative may have no value on the other hand ideas that sound simple may have great value.

The only true test concerning the value of the information in these tapes will come thru their application in the heat of battle. I would give the ideas a couple of hundred races to show their worth. If you make money with the ideas then it was a good purchase, if you lose money then it was a bad purchase, either way life itself is a gamble.

[fastCow]

I been one of his faithful students since it all started and still and probably always will think that Pizzolla is an honest and up front guy in the racing industry.


Michael is very intelligent and charming, but I would not use honesty in the same sentence. I have known him from the Sartin days and know that he does not hesitate to say anything that promotes his purposes.

For character references, you might check with his late partner and friend Eric Langjahr's family. Michael is basically shameless. A shame because he does have something to offer...

[mhrussell]

FastCow-

My old karate sensei once told us:

"When faced with two opposite views on a point of fact, in time one will grow and one will fade and then you will know the truth".

There are things you just do not know about the situation you referenced.

I will not say any more.. except I am proud to have Michael as a friend and
refute anyone who questions his honesty and integrity.

[fastCow]

I will not say any more.. except I am proud to have Michael as a friend and
refute anyone who questions his honesty and integrity.

good for you.