The Difference between the sexes

[R Hills is God]

Hi, I'm new here. I'm a handicapper from England who has been lurking here a couple of weeks, so I thought I'd start a topic.

Does anyone treat the way they analyse a filly/mare's chance to that of a colt or a gelding? I'm interested in American views on this as it isn't usually given much thought in England. Fillies might be thought slightly less predictable, especially pre-August when they are often in season, but are generally analysed in the same way as colts and geldings.

I'm particularly ineterested in something James Quinn wrote, that fillies are favoured by a slow early pace, similar to that found in most of our turf races. When dirt races were introduced in England 15 years ago, the conventional wisdom was that fillies did badly on the surface because they didn't like dirt getting kicked in their faces. However, since polytrack surfaces have been used (which tend to be slow early-fast late unlike the initial fibresand surfaces) this problem seems to have 'gone away'.

Are there any situations where people here think fillies are particularly advataged/disadvanted?

[GlenninOhio]

I know I'm answering a question with a question, but can I infer from your comments that fillies and mares are run more frequently against colts and geldings in England than in the US? At the US tracks most of us follow, this is very uncommon.

Taking it a step further, I'd be very interested in the views on this board on running fillies and mares against the boys if the conditions fit well.

Thanks for starting the thread.

[sjk]

I have wondered why no one has ever brought this up. There are differences. By my measures speed is more likely to carry in filly races and there are fewer deep closers.

Also when I predict a speed figure the standard deviation of the difference between predicted and actual is greater in filly races than for colts and geldings. Either they are less predictable or there is a factor that I am overlooking that might account for the difference.

I treat these two factors differently based on the sex of the runners.

I show a higher ROI in filly races year after year (9 consecutive years) and I'm not really sure why.

[twindouble]

I know I'm answering a question with a question, but can I infer from your comments that fillies and mares are run more frequently against colts and geldings in England than in the US? At the US tracks most of us follow, this is very uncommon. Quote; GlenninOhio;

That's right Glen, that also why I never gave it much thought with the exception of races where fillies were entered against the boys then I would give the filly a good look to see how she stacks up including the trainer intent. From my experience it's rare fillies or mares can compete with the boys, ESP in stakes or graded races. Ruffian comes to mind, her tragic race against Foolish Pleasure showed she was capable. Others here will have more historical knowledge on the subject but I don't think a gelded horses run faster, they just become more manageable. There has to be physical or instinctive reasons why fillies and mares don't compete here that often agains't the boys, here again others can answer that question. Comparing times for distances is another interesting question, if it's even close to par with the boys, why not run against them?

T.D.

[sjk]

Its not close. They are about 10 points slower.

[R Hills is God]

Yes, fillies compete with colts regularly in the UK. There are plenty of fillies only races, especially for maidens, but by the time they've matured most filllies/mares are racing in 'handicaps' against the colts/geldings. Even at group/graded level fillies will regularly take on the colts.

SJK - that's interesting. I've also found the standard deviation of actual from predicted to be higher for fillies in our races here when competing against colts/geldings, so I don't think it's a fillies race specific thing. A common theory might put this down to fillies being in season often but the relationship still holds from Spetember onwards, when fillies wouldn't be coming in season.

[tholl]

The difference is the surfaces. To compete at the top level on dirt horses have to be physically strong to race hard and fast from the get go and fillies are generally just not strong enough. However, on turf more emphasis is on late acceleration so the sexes are more evenly matched.
Of course fillies like Winning Colors and Genuine Risk are exceptional but one should also remember that fillies mature quicker than colts.

[ezpace]

figured out,, and have them F&M" S as your favorite bets let me know HOW u do it. {8^))

[kenwoodallpromos]

The difference is the surfaces. To compete at the top level on dirt horses have to be physically strong to race hard and fast from the get go and fillies are generally just not strong enough. However, on turf more emphasis is on late acceleration so the sexes are more evenly matched.
Of course fillies like Winning Colors and Genuine Risk are exceptional but one should also remember that fillies mature quicker than colts.
____________________________
You may be correct- I just checked the world Harness records and the females are right up there, usually second place for fastest ever in certain categories

[JustRalph]

question: who the hell is "R Hills"

[mikeb]

Rumor has it,that september starts the mating season and male horses will not always pass a filly,of course unless he was a gelding and good enough to do so.

hwnn

[Bluenose]

R Hills is Richard Hills, stable jockey to Sheikh Hamdan or Gainsborough as his horses run under that name in USA.

[Bluenose]

Shadwell not Gainsborough!

[JustRalph]

R Hills is Richard Hills, stable jockey to Sheikh Hamdan or Gainsborough as his horses run under that name in USA.

Thanks............

[JackS]

Isn't it possible that in europe fillies and mares advance to a level in which they are competitive against the males?
Grade 3 mixed gender in europe might translate to Grade 2 females only in the US.