New guy needs help

[winningplays]

Hey all, I just spent a few minutes reading in the software thread of the board and as a relatively new horseplayer (under a year) who has got his head kicked in in that time, I would like to know where I can get this software you all are talking about HTR and HSH. You guys seem sold on it. Speaking as someone who has spent over $4000.00 on programs that just don't work, I decided not to buy another one until I found one other people were sold on.

If anyone is interested I would be glad to give you the names of programs I have bought that are a complete disapointment. Some cost under $99.00, some over $700.00 and everywhere in between.

Please point me to the ones you guys are using.
winningplays

[andicap]

Ah, that software learning curve. I remember it well.
Email me at stiller41@hotmail.com and we can compare notes.
Basically you don't want to buy software until you feel comfortable as a handicapper. Software by itself will not make you a winner. It's a tool to handicap, does the math and some other things you don't have time for.

Other stuff is philosophy. Lot of people are now getting into database handicapping. Getting mechanical plays by running models and see what wins with their software. They use MS Access to build dBs.

I modeled for a while (not using a DB) and gave it up because to me it's so paceline dependent.

anyway, email me if you want to chat some more.
Not that I'm an expert but I went through a lot of things you're going through.

andicap

[Dick Schmidt]

To WinningPlays,

I've been a computer handicapper for almost 20 years, making my living at the track for more than half that time, and today I think that there are three software programs available that are worth both the money and the time you need to invest in them.

HSH - Horse Street Handicapper, by Dave Schwartz. Program must be purchased and uses downloads from HDW. Powerful, cutting edge, very hard to learn. Good support from Dave and his group online.
www.horsestreet.com

HTR - Handicapping Tech. and Research by Ken Massa. Based on traditional pace handicapping, especially the book by Tom Brohamer, "Modern Pace Handicapping". Very strong modeling and research tools. Last time I looked it was free if you signed up for 2 or 3 months of downloads. www.Homebased2.com/km/msiez9987.htm

Synergism 6 - by Bob Purdy. Another strong pace based program by a long time pace handicapper. Designed more for the player with fewer research tools but stronger betting tools, it provides abundant data and keeps an automatic track profile and model. Uses model to make automatic selections if you like. Very flexible for the player. Free (download) or $20 (on cd-rom with printed manual) I recommend the CD, as it includes a month of data to play with. To buy and use the program, sign up for two months of downloads. www.synergism-sdp.com.

You won't go far wrong with any of these programs, but realize that the commitment in time is significant. They are designed for the professional level player and demand mastery of a steep learning curve. HTR and Synergism are pace based and will demand some heavy reading and study on your part to get up to speed. HSH is an adventure in cutting edge technology and has almost no documentation. It is powerful, but be prepared to invest many frustrating hours trying to figure it out. Good online support from other users.

[Slider]

Winning Plays;

Hey, good name.
I tend to agree with andicap. A good computer program is made better by a good player. The computer program can become a little better through upgrades but the player can become much better through experience and hard work.
Often times the players handicapping improves while learning to use the programs. A case in point is the selection of pacelines for the pace programs.
There are also some black box programs out there that require nothing but money and trust, that will break your heart. After buying all those programs you know what I mean. You need to ask yourself why none of them worked for you. Bad programs or just did not fit the handicapper.

Sorry Dick but I must disagree with some of your statements. HSH has documentation. I have over 300 pages in a notebook on my desk. I got it from printing the help file that is in the program, and from the tour on the website, and from the upgrade section and FAQ section and the other sections of the HSH bulletin board. The screen shots where so good I was familiar with the program before I received it. Hell, half the fun was the challenge of learning the program. Most of the challenge was due to the program stretching my handicapping knowledge. It showed me some things I had never thought about before.
HSH can be learned at your own pace. I worked on it one section at a time. It is a large program that encompasses all facets of handicapping. Most of users recheck their selection many different ways. The beginner usually starts off with the method plays. Hell, I still use 7 button and it is still showing a profit after 700 plays. Then there is exvex that is working so well at many tracks. (These are methods that can be done by clicking a button or following a check list)

Winning Plays you can check out HSH at horsestreet.com and be sure to read the bbs.

Slider

[winningplays]

Thanks for all the quick reply's folks. I handicapp sports for a site on the web, hence the name winning plays. I would give the URL, but I don't want to step on any toes being the new guy around. It's extremly funny that sports gamblers will bet on almost anything including horses, but hardcore horseplayers for the most part only bet on horses or dogs. If any of you do partake in the occasional baseball bet let me know, I don't think the board owner would mind if I post a free pick now and then. May freebies ended at 13-5, so some money to be made.

Anyway thanks again for the info on where to find the software, I'm heading there now.
winning plays

[Dick Schmidt]

Slider,

I stand corrected. You are right, there is a lot of documentation on HSH, it just isn't easy to find. When you do as you did, and gather it all in one spot, it does answer most questions. So I'll amend my statement and say that HSH has documentation, but it is poorly organized. I offered to write a manual for the program, but one of my conditions was that it must be a stable product before I start. I figure to get going in about 2005. Let me add that this is not necessarily a bad thing. The reason that HSH is undergoing so many changes and updates is that Dave is constantly improving the program and responding to requests from users. This means that the program remains by far the most advanced on the market, but also that it is hard to get up and rolling.

[GR1@HTR]

Winningplays,

Right or wrong...I’ve got a different approach/take. First research the product you want to get involved in and then go with it. You want to get one that will enable you do do extensive research. ie...be able to test the factors and find out what is winning and more importantly, what is losing.

IMHO, I believe if you give me two people of equal abilities...

Person A) Handicapping 20 years
Person B) Handicapping 0-12 months


Give them a strong research tool that provides them with answers....
That there is a good possibility that Person B will perform equal to or above Person A. Why? Because Person A has been subjected to lots of horse racing myths and prejudgments.

It’s kinda like companies and corporations trying to hire new sales talent. Many leading companies do not want to hire the really experienced sales reps due to the fact that they are untrainable or have developed bad habits. Many organizations like to hire “fresh” minds that have not been “infected” with bad habits that other organizations have instilled into them.

Like I said, not saying I’m right or wrong...Just an opinion that many will not agree with...

[bedford35]

To Winningplays,

You mention spending $4000 on software you don't think works. Could you provide specifics here on which ones you bought and how they performed for you. I would be very interested in reading your comments and experiences. Thanks.

To Dick Schmidt,

You mention three current programs that you think are good but I was wondering which one(if any) you currently use, and, if you were to return to full-time professional play which software would you use and why? Thanks.



bedford35

[Dick Schmidt]

Bedford35,

Ouch! That is a question I wish you hadn't asked. The guys who write some of these programs are friends of mine, and I've got them all convinced that I use only their stuff.

The answer is that for the past three years I have done very little handicapping, but when I did, I used HSH. One reason was that it didn't require constant care and feeding; I could drop it for a couple of months and then pick it back up without too much loss of efficiency. For years I was a pace handicapper exclusively, and the one thing pace demands is daily input. Even if you aren't playing, you need to keep up your model and profile. The last five years I played, I used a $200 pocket computer and a red pen. Ran TPR numbers one line at a time and wrote things down by hand. It worked (and still does) but the time commitment was huge.

I'm closing escrow on a couple of houses in the next two weeks, and after that I plan to take a long, hard look at racing again. However, this time around I'm not willing to do 14 hour days anymore, and playing just my local tracks doesn't look viable. Where I'll start is with HSH, but I also like some of the features of Synergism, so I'll most likely blend that in as well. It does give me TPR numbers, which I am still most comfortable with. Modern computers are so fast and it is so easy to run several programs at once that I like the idea of getting multiple looks at a race.

Were I limited by time or money to using just one program, it would be HSH. I've really lost my taste for picking pace lines, and I ignore the parts of HSH that require it. I know I'm "waffling" a bit here, saying I'll use two out of three programs you asked about, but it is like recommending a favorite racing book; read many many of them and let each teach you something. Same with computer programs. None will make you a winner, several can make you a better player. You can test two of the programs with only an investment in time, and HSH has a "walk-through" on its website that gives some of the flavor. Try 'um on and see which fits you best.


Dick

[hurrikane]

Winning Plays,

just anouther thought. Go to the web sites and check out he boards. See what type of dialoge is going on. When I went to software and db handicapping I tried a few different software pieces before I ended up where I am. The reason I ended up there were the people and the help that was offered. Not saying the other software boards don't have that...haven't really looked lately...I just know the knowledge I have gleaned from the people on the site. Really reduced the leaning curve and got me over a lot of old handicapping illusions.

[winningplays]

all, I certainally appreciate the responses and the time some of you took to post them. I guess you are telling me what I pretty much figured all along, that being, it's a long road to success with the horses. Seems like a tough game all the way around, maybe I'll stick to sports.
thanks again
winning plays

[Lefty]

Yep, horse handicapping a long road of learning and trial
and error. Better money elsewhere for time involved.
Even though most of us want to make some money, horse handicapping and horses is a "love affair" so if
the "love's" not there, then yes, best to move on.

[Dick Schmidt]

In looking over my post on what programs available were worth the time and money it takes to learn them, it occurred to me that I left out one obvious choice: the program featured on this site, Pace Advantage. I haven't spent much time looking at it, but I know a couple of people who use it and are very satisfied. For a beginner, it takes far less time to learn and get up and running. Check it out the next time you log on.

Dick

[Dave Schwartz]

I was not aware that PA was selling that program anymore. Have I missed this?

[PaceAdvantage]

No, not selling anymore. The only reason I keep it on the webpage is because I haven't found anything to take its space!!! LOL

I also had another version for sale a few years ago that some people may still be using.....In any event, even though I am out of the sales business, I'll still graciously take the plug....


==PA

[Dick Schmidt]

Nevermind.