NJ Cops net a big fish at the Big M

[cj]

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-5/1143869950132350.xml&coll=1

[twindouble]

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-5/1143869950132350.xml&coll=1

Those people should be bared from the game for life! That's the only way they will got on top of the problem.


T.D.

[Murph]

NO Ledfords?
That would be Harness Heaven!

Murph

[Art P]

Now they only have another 100 outfits to go after. The whole game is crooked ,just accept it and try to pick the winner, If you were smart you would have been all over Lefords horses and make a killing

[cj]

Now they only have another 100 outfits to go after. The whole game is crooked ,just accept it and try to pick the winner, If you were smart you would have been all over Lefords horses and make a killing

Yeah Art, that is how to win at this game, bet the top outfits, the public hasn't figured that out yet.

[the little guy]

You should be thanking Art for tactifully pointing out that you should add " not smart " to your rapidly growing resume.

[Art P]

you keep betting the non doped horses and Ill bet the doped ones and we will see who has more money at the end of the day. Do you Think I care Ledford was doping ...NO. I mad a fortune playing him. Keep beating your head against the wall

[the little guy]

In a similar money making scheme, there was a lot of cash in that pocketbook I grabbed from that little old lady yesterday.

Sure, keep saying that's wrong, while I count the cash.

[Murph]

I attended the opening of Hoosier Park standardbred season with my family last night. Nice crowd of close to 2500 people happily joined me. We enjoyed all of the fun, stuff to do for the kids, T-shirt toss, barn tours, excellent grille fare ... everyone had a great time seeing old friends and old horses again.

The first race comes up and there was no 3 minute rush to the windows to make a bet?!? That seemed odd in light of there being several thousand free wagers mailed out in advance of the opening and a 2 week long TV/radio/print campaign. They were lucky to draw $1 per person, on track, into the win pool for any of the early races. It was that way thru the evening - I didn't bother to bet my free $2 ducat on any live races either.

People in Indiana LOVE to come out to the race track and have always shown thier support by doing so. In spite of some opinions, the populace here is not a complete idiot. No one was making any serious wagers on those races. I doubt that many will this year either.

With the strange doping allegations of drugging horses - to lose and the even more strange reaction of the IHRC there is not much confidence in the fairness with which the races are being run. The combined situation will harm the racing handles for several years, and that is if the new rules applied this year prove to be any better than the ones going unenforced previously.

Not a single horseman or veternarian were cited for any wrongdoing, yet they used this incident to justify diverting purse monies to increased enforcement of backstretch security. It's not like they really did anything about it, unless you were to ask them.

Art if you know which horses are illegally doped and you enjoy wagering on this exclusive information then you are part of the problem.

Murph

[Niko]

I'm glad we don't have to worry about this type of stuff in the thoroughbred world ;)

So much for the detention barns as I had suspected and mentioned in another post

[toetoe]

Art's not quite an ambassador for the game at this point, but it's not a bettor's job to enforce the rules on the backstretch. I can argue that winners at the track are taking money from all the poor old toothless men screaming at monitors and pooping chalk dust. If I thought PVal had a good chance of cutting someone off while on a good horse, I might bet him and risk the DQ. Naw, forget that. He'll ALWAYS come down, sometimes undesrvedly. My point is that, while I don't believe Art anyway, his alleged strategy is sound. The only way to remain pure is to pass every race.

[stlseeeek]

yeah, the tbreds are clean, they never cheat.



sin,

milkshakes,sponges,pepper on nuts, Gill Stables, etc





it's like they said about athletes, the trainers are ahead of the testers. dutrow,pletcher,mullins, etc have all been caught cheating. so lets not act like harness are worst offenders, atleast they catch them.

[toetoe]

Pepper-on-nuts was really more like Spanish Fly, and was Gill ever really convicted of anything besides amputation?

[Koko]

pepper on nuts,

Sounds like quite a delicacy. Do I need to go to Hong Kong for that horse testicles rolled in pepper dish or is that something I can find stateside?
I think I'll start with Monkey Brains for an appetizer and I'll be enjoying a meal that makes me smarter and more virile at the same time. Not a bad combination.

[PaceAdvantage]

dutrow,pletcher,mullins, etc have all been caught cheating.

Really? Cheating? Nah....their horses have tested positive for substances that may be legal during training, so technically, unless security has documented proof that these guys gave drugs to their horses knowing it would be in the system at race time, and knowing it would improve performance, then I would guess it isn't cheating. It's just an unfortunate act of bad timing....if you want to be technical that is....

So really, nobody was actually CAUGHT cheating....were they?

[cj]

...So really, nobody was actually CAUGHT cheating....were they?

Yes, they were caught cheating, however you want to color it.

[traynor]

Murph wrote: <People in Indiana LOVE to come out to the race track and have always shown thier support by doing so. In spite of some opinions, the populace here is not a complete idiot. No one was making any serious wagers on those races. I doubt that many will this year either.>

The same thing buried Canterbury Downs when it opened. People in Minnesota viewed it like a county fair; a place to go to sit in the grass, eat hot dogs, and watch horses run around in circles. For most, betting was boring. Canterbury was touted as the "Santa Anita of the Midwest." That didn't last long. Sounds like Indiana is much the same.
Good Luck

[traynor]

PaceAdvantage wrote: <Really? Cheating? Nah....their horses have tested positive for substances that may be legal during training, so technically, unless security has documented proof that these guys gave drugs to their horses knowing it would be in the system at race time, and knowing it would improve performance, then I would guess it isn't cheating. It's just an unfortunate act of bad timing....if you want to be technical that is....

So really, nobody was actually CAUGHT cheating....were they?>

One of the most illuminating learning experiences of my thoroughbred handicapping career was at Aqueduct, watching a claimer that had finished 6th or worse in its last four or five races at $25K, entered in a NW3 allowance, completely blowing the field away and heading for the finish line looking like the second coming of Secretariat--while the crowd chanted, "Oscar! Oscar!"
Good Luck

[PaceAdvantage]

Yes, they were caught cheating, however you want to color it.

Technically, that isn't true in most cases. Unless you catch the trainer in the act of doping / drugging with the intent to actually race on said drugs, how can you say they were caught cheating? Unfortunately, the public rarely if ever gets to know the true intentions behind any drug positives....one can only surmise based on incomplete information.

BTW, there is a good article on drugs and trainers in the most recent issue of Horseplayer Magazine. The author brings a welcome spotlight on the issue, talking to trainers (most off-the-record).

I'll leave you with these quotes from the article to give you a taste of its slant (these quotes come from an unnamed veteran trainer who has run horses all over the east coast, midwest and southwest):

"I've always cheated, and I always will."

"I can take any horse losing by 10 lengths in his last start and win with him at least once using everything I can get my hands on before I take too much out of the horse (he mentioned such concoctions as snake venom, cocaine and even cayenne pepper in the rectum). By then, it doesn't matter; you have made money and hopefully it is somebody else's problem."

[Pace Cap'n]

So really, nobody was actually CAUGHT cheating....were they?

Interesting. In what other sport could you get suspened for NOT CHEATING?

[twindouble]

It's almost funny when you think about it, until you set your feet on some moral ground even when it comes to the animals involved. What's funny is how we as players react to someone getting caught, no different than the crooks in your neighbor hood, we feel out raged at first then we feel better and little more secure hoping it will go away.

It's naive to think your not competing with the thieves and other under
handed people that make up this game or any other venture you get into. Sure they are a minority but I've concluded that minority is and has been growing for some time now and we all know social and economic conditions bring that about. When it comes the social side the fact is we have a huge drug culture that didn't exist to the degree it does today. Why wouldn't it spread and grow in horse racing when there's millions of Americans using drugs and popping pills for one reason or another.

On the economic side of the equation many factors come into play, the quick fix, get rich mentality is pervasive through out our society. Many start out as honest people until the shit hits the fan, then it's win at any cost and losing is no option. Oh, the dread of failure, can't face this, can't face that, I'll kill myself or the wife, better yet I'll burn everything down and let someone else pay. Not many take that course but they find ways so the better percentage of honest people in horse racing or anything else get the shaft.

Pilferage and other forms of thievery in this country is in the billions of dollars, not including what our financial institutions ripe off along with state, local and federal governments. So lets get real, that's what most honest people have to deal with. If we locked all the suckers up, we would have to set aside the state of Texas to house them all or we could pull a Tom and hang them all. Just kidding Tom but a lot of Americans are becoming more intolerant and that's a good sign.

Where does that leave us as horse players? Some of what's been said here is right on, learn who's who first and foremost so you can capitalize on the thieves as well as those that give you an honest race. I mentioned at this point I'm not likely to live the game to that extent any longer. To truly make it on the scale that most of us play it's a must to get know all you can about the track and the people involved on every level. That's been my experience but some here say they can play many tracks and not bother with it, that's hard for me to swallow.

Good luck,

T.D.

[takeout]

People actually being arrested and the horses not being allowed to run. Is this a first? Maybe the t-bred authorities will start thinking along these lines. :ThmbUp:

[Tom]

Interesting. In what other sport could you get suspened for NOT CHEATING?

Some of these guys get caught NOT cheating multiple times!

[PaceAdvantage]

Don't you just love semantics? And to think, at one time, I wanted to be a lawyer....can you tell? :lol:

[JPinMaryland]

Interesting. In what other sport could you get suspened for NOT CHEATING?

Baseball?

[jotb]

Hello all:

If the owners stop putting pressure on the trainers, I believe there would be less illegal activity. The owners hate to hear from trainers that their horse needs time off due to ailments. Most of the owners today that are in the industry just can't afford to have their horse on the shelf. The owners just want to run and could care less about their racehorse. They want that 4th or 5th place just to grab a piece of the purse so the monthy expenses are covered. I see it and hear it all the time. Most owners are in denial when it comes to their racehorse and have absolutely no clue when it comes to keeping a horse fit and sound. Racehorses tell us when they are ready and yes, like humans they suffer from injuries and ailments constantly. The owner is not patient enough and expects the trainers to work miracles and when that owner does not get immediate results they are quick to find a replacement. There would be less illegal acts if the owner was held responsible. If a test comes back postitive then that horse should not be able to run back for a substantial amount of time.

Jotb

[stlseeeek]

great post

[Niko]

People actually being arrested and the horses not being allowed to run. Is this a first? Maybe the t-bred authorities will start thinking along these lines. :ThmbUp:

Harness racing has been through the milkshaking scandals and the demise of the sport, they understand the implications...me thinks

Thoroughbred racing doesn't and acts like baseball..and has been said, until the horses can't run the owners are making money and don't need/want to force the issue.

[RedSound]

So i guess you people dont want to talk about the dead horse in Ledfords barn!?:eek:

[takeout]

This is the last I saw about it:
[snip]
Cote said a necropsy is being performed on a horse, Malobar Man, found dead in Ledford's stable during the raid.

"The dead horse had all the symptoms of EPO, including loose bowels and diarrhea," Cote said.
[snip]
http://www.thnt.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060404/NEWS01/604040365/1001

Also, there’s an Opinions piece by Ray Paulick about all of this that I found enlightening.
http://opinions.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=32867

[Niko]

Last two sentences are interesting, again confirms why detention barns lost their value for some. I wonder what would happen if some high profile names were caught, lost their licenses and ACTUALLY spent time in prison. Anyone know what's happening with the New York case? Wouldn't it be great if they developed tests and could enforce surprise inspections.

They're not all cheats and there's some excellent trainers out there but until it all gets cleared up, if it does?

[takeout]

Anyone know what's happening with the New York case?
I was wondering about that too. Here’s this if you haven’t seen it yet:
http://www.drf.com/news/article/73320.html

[shanta]

In a similar money making scheme, there was a lot of cash in that pocketbook I grabbed from that little old lady yesterday.

Sure, keep saying that's wrong, while I count the cash.

:lol: :lol:

[Niko]

Thanks!

[Milleruszk]

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/jersey/index.ssf?/base/news-3/114490626943940.xml&coll=1

The latest in the continuing saga.........how long do you really think the 10 year suspension will be?? 10 days? 10 minutes? :eek:

[Doc]

I guess the Ledfords are going to appeal, but eventually they'll have to serve their time. Can't imagine the authorities letting them off easy...in the meantime, they better learn how to say, "Would you like fries with that order?"

Doc :D

[Niko]

I wonder if the flats would ever be that tough on a trainer????

Good to see, good for racing and it's definately a deterent, as opposed to 60 days off and your barns still running. Maybe I'll have to switch to the trotters now :(

[stlseeeek]

many of the harness tracks are tough with rules.



FP suspended a driver for a year, he couldn;t ride anywhere in country for a year. for pulling his feet out of the bike to kick the horse in the ass.

chicago suspended ron marsh for 7 years? and the evidence against him was flimsy, but they sent a message!

but too many of the smaller tracks need the cheat drivers to bring in the bettors and fans. Walter case was a bigtime cheater, but the OHIO tracks welcomed him with open arms. I watched him kick a horse over20+ times in a race at Northfield. it was so obvious, it was borderline sickening. Some mysterious person paid his kicking fines:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::roll eyes:

[Doc]

Wasn't Herve Filion in trouble some years back? I'm pretty sure he's back in action again, I think at Pocono.

[stlseeeek]

he was supposed to be barred for life


i belieeve the canadien tracks allowed him to drive there a few years later, and now he's hit dover and a few of the east coast harness tracks.

if i remember right, he can never ride in NY or NJ.

[Milleruszk]

he was supposed to be barred for life


i belieeve the canadien tracks allowed him to drive there a few years later, and now he's hit dover and a few of the east coast harness tracks.

if i remember right, he can never ride in NY or NJ.


He's back..........http://www.poconodowns.com/press/2002/07_04_02.html
How can harness racing be taken seriously when this kind of stuff goes on?
Well I guess it's because Herve is in the Harness Hall of Fame. :rolleyes: :blush:

[cj]

Herve was my favorite driver when I was in Jersey in the late 80s and 90s. This guy was always bet at Freehold, but was winning well below 10%. You just put a line through Herve's horse and you eliminated the take. This went on for three or four years. Past reputation I guess.

[Maxspa]

All,
Several years ago, I was invited by a horseman to visit Herve's farm in Englishtown, N.J. The farm, had its own track, with viewing areas for owners to watch their steeds in action. There were stallions to breed to and at the time they had enough work for three blacksmiths. It was a fine operation!
Rumor had it that Herve lost large sums of money at Atlantic City. The guy could really drive and get the best out of a horse in his prime!
Maxspa

[Milleruszk]

The latest developments in this case. Any bets that they will all be back at the Meadowlands in the next couple of years? You have to love their lawyer. His client plead guilty because it was the cheapest way out. :rolleyes:

http://www.nj.com/starledger/stories/index.ssf?/base/news-6/116970398159110.xml&coll=1

[speedking]

All,
Several years ago, I was invited by a horseman to visit Herve's farm in Englishtown, N.J. The farm, had its own track, with viewing areas for owners to watch their steeds in action. There were stallions to breed to and at the time they had enough work for three blacksmiths. It was a fine operation!
Rumor had it that Herve lost large sums of money at Atlantic City. The guy could really drive and get the best out of a horse in his prime!
Maxspa

When I broke into the business Herve was one of the best. He did have great hands and as Maxspa said, he really could get everything out of a horse. His downfall was casino gambling and a fire at his Englishtown farm. He had minimal insurance, none on the horses. In his prime he had his own copter and used that for travel to the NY tracks at night after an afternoon at Freehold, or Brandywine. Liberty Bell was still running back then too I guess.

I've seen his name pop up at the Delaware tracks and Pocono Downs I suppose. Certainly not making any news these days. I know he is not allowed back in NY, but never say never. He was indicted there a little over 10 years ago with a group of professional bettors known as the "Kosher Boys". These guys were based in Rockland Cty. NY and bet very heavy money on sports and horses on a daily basis. They tried to nail these guys along with Herve for race fixing based on phone conversations. There was a complaint about violating interstate gambling laws also because of bets called into Vegas and calling Herve in Jersey while they were in NY. From what I knew it was more of a case of Herve talking about what he thought of the horses and possible strategy. The story received a big publicity push from the DA and the guys were raked over the coals by the media, but everything gradually faded away with no convictions on the initial charges. A few members of the betting syndicate were convicted of tax evasion and did some time.

speedking

[njcurveball]

Herve Filion was elected to the Hall of Fame at age 35!

He is still driving today at 66. How many people have you ever heard of doing something over 30 years AFTER they were put into the Hall of Fame?

[highnote]

In a similar money making scheme, there was a lot of cash in that pocketbook I grabbed from that little old lady yesterday.

Sure, keep saying that's wrong, while I count the cash.


Maybe a more accurate analogy would be if Art and I bet on whether or not you would be successful in grabbing the pocketbook. :D

Grabbing the pocketbook is illegal. A bet between me and Art on your success is not.

[singunner]

I ate horse heart today. It was really good. Had a sort of barbecue/soy sauce to it. Cost me about 20 bucks for the one dish though.

Oh, you all were joking?

[highnote]

Herve Filion was elected to the Hall of Fame at age 35!

He is still driving today at 66. How many people have you ever heard of doing something over 30 years AFTER they were put into the Hall of Fame?


When was Al Davis of the Raiders elected into the Hall of Fame?

[Milleruszk]

And now the appeal of course! Any wagers on how this turns out?

http://www.nj.com/columns/ledger/brienza/index.ssf?/base/columns-0/1170740320131650.xml&coll=1&thispage=2

[njcurveball]

When was Al Davis of the Raiders elected into the Hall of Fame?

Al Davis was a football icon. He was elected to the Hall of Fame at the age of 62 (Class of 1992).

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=51

[speedking]

All,
Several years ago, I was invited by a horseman to visit Herve's farm in Englishtown, N.J. The farm, had its own track, with viewing areas for owners to watch their steeds in action. There were stallions to breed to and at the time they had enough work for three blacksmiths. It was a fine operation!
Rumor had it that Herve lost large sums of money at Atlantic City. The guy could really drive and get the best out of a horse in his prime!
Maxspa

I don't know how he's doing overall, but Herve just brought a $50 horse home 1st in the 2nd at Dover:jump:

TVG just happens to be carrying Dover on a slow afternoon.

speedking

[Milleruszk]

I think he is banned from driving at the Meadowlands?

[Milleruszk]

He's back. Eric Ledford is due to begin driving again at the Meadowlands on Thursday. According to his attorney Ledford was a model citizen while on probation

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01152008/sports/banned_driver_back_477291.htm

[njcurveball]

I need no other reason to keep any harness racing bets of mine from making it into the pools there.

I know people will do what they please, but letting someone so blatantly guilty back after such a short time is a cold hard slap in the face for the customer! :ThmbDown:

I liked the part where they said he paid ALL fines. I wonder if they even cared to investigate how much money he made on horses with no form that improved their lifetime mark by 3 or 4 seconds at the expense of the actual customers. :mad:

[Bruddah]

Sounds like quite a delicacy. Do I need to go to Hong Kong for that horse testicles rolled in pepper dish or is that something I can find stateside?
I think I'll start with Monkey Brains for an appetizer and I'll be enjoying a meal that makes me smarter and more virile at the same time. Not a bad combination.


I'll have mine with Favre Beans and a nice Chianti. :lol:

[trigger]

Pepper-on-nuts was really more like Spanish Fly, and was Gill ever really convicted of anything besides amputation?
Was the amputation before or after the pepper? ouch or ouch, ouch?

[njcurveball]

Frank Passero was the pepper man that I read about. Gill was an owner who spent tons of money and was driven out of the game.

Did Passero train for him? I am missing the connection here?