Warrant to be issued for arrest of Congresswoman

[lsbets]

Capitol Hill police plan to issue an arrest warrant today for Rep. Cynthia McKinney (D-Ga.).

The warrant is related to the incident Wednesday when McKinney allegedly slapped a Capitol Hill police officer.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/8343403/detail.html

Here's my favorite quote:

Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi on Thursday labeled it "a mistake, an unfortunate lack of recognition of a member of Congress." She added that the police officer was not at fault.

"I would not make a big deal of this," said Pelosi, D-Calif.


So, the officer is not at fault, but if he had only recognized McKinney this would never have happenned. Sounds to me like Pelosi is saying the officer is at fault.

How many of us would walk free for two days after we cold cocked a police officer with a cell phone? She deserves to be arrested.

[46zilzal]

then they souldn't bet on the favorite in the Aqueduct 6th then #5

[46zilzal]

the winner of that race

[kenwoodallpromos]

"At a news conference Friday evening McKinney said she was the victim in the incident."
_____
If she was not wearing the required Congressional I.D.badge, she is a felon. Case closed.

[Tom]

Victim, eh?

Another case of police brutality - that cop beat her hand sensless with his face!:rolleyes:

[lsbets]

She appears to be a victim of her own stupidity. The unfortunate thing is she will continue to be reelected.

[Ponyplayr]

She appears to be a victim of her own stupidity. The unfortunate thing is she will continue to be reelected.

Not if she is convicted.
The house can toss her out.

[GaryG]

Anybody want to guess what her "ethnicity" might be?...:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Tom]

Anybody want to guess what her "ethnicity" might be?...:lol: :lol: :lol:

Ignorant-American. :jump:

[PaceAdvantage]

Anybody want to guess what her "ethnicity" might be?...:lol: :lol: :lol:

Why, is that meaningful?

[kenwoodallpromos]

I can guess by looking at her pix on the link.
I'm nicer than Tom- I guessed "Disheveled American" by her hair.

[kenwoodallpromos]

I can guess by looking at her pix on the link.
I'm nicer than Tom- I guessed "Disheveled American" by her hair.
Why, did they stop Obama or Rangle?

[JustRalph]

Ladies and Gentleman.........your Congress-person in deep thought........


http://www.columbuscool.com/cindi_.jpg

[kenwoodallpromos]

Why the pix of Barry Bonds from spring training this year, the day he wore drag?

[hcap]

Ladies and Gentleman.........your leader in deep thought........

"BYE BYE TOM, NOW If I could only open this damn door for YOUR speedy exit."

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/duncanblack/bd5.jpg


"SORRY BOSS..."


http://www.sourball.com/whitehouse/cp/mugshot.jpg




"BYE BYE CYNTHY...."

[toetoe]

Now I see she used public money to fly Isaac Hayes into Atlanta for a building dedication, or some damn thing. As an Anti-Scientologist, I'm outraged! :D

[kenwoodallpromos]

She is today clearly playing the racIST card. Let me know if she ever says why she was not wearing the proof of authorization.
HCAP- great post! the mugshot on the right has Delay smiling! Must be his good side! (But of course you think his good side is his backside as he's leaving!)
Is that a fake sign in front of him or do they reserve a large block of numbers ending in "GOP" for Repub politicians?

[kenwoodallpromos]

The "08" is when the Demos take back congress and the Whitehouse, so "911" must mean Repubs are in trouble or that Bush messed up the war on terror, or both.

[Indulto]

Here's my favorite quote:

Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi on Thursday labeled it "a mistake, an unfortunate lack of recognition of a member of Congress." She added that the police officer was not at fault.

"I would not make a big deal of this," said Pelosi, D-Calif.

So, the officer is not at fault, but if he had only recognized McKinney this would never have happenned. Sounds to me like Pelosi is saying the officer is at fault.

How many of us would walk free for two days after we cold cocked a police officer with a cell phone? She deserves to be arrested.

I wonder what Pelosi would have labeled an attack on her by some nut who got through the security designed to protect members of Congress? I bet she'd make a big deal out of that.

Hey congresswomen, how about bothering to meet the security people, individually, to thank them for protecting your derrieres? Maybe then you'd have a beef if they didn't recognize you. Better still, you might be able to identify someone who shouldn't be there -- or isn't that deal big enough?

[toetoe]

Maybe we'll all get lucky, and Mesdames McKinney and Pelosi will be barred for a whole day, somehow, from "doing the country's business." One can only hope. :cool:

[Indulto]

TT,
Our elected representatives are citizens representing other citizens, and unlike royalty. are subject to the same responsibilites and accountablity as any other citizen.

It is critical for Dems to make sure they are on the "right" side of this issue or
the Reps will be able to place McKinney's mug shot right next to Delay's on their way to re-election. What a shame if McKinney were to become the Willie Horton of the next presidential campaign. Edwards', Lieberman's, and Obama's reaction to all this is critical.

[toetoe]

I will say that Danny Glover sounded almost rational. He was there, but he said only to support, not to claim innocence. That actually was pretty big of him. I wonder whether he got an earful from the true believers.

[JustRalph]

let's not forget that two Capitol hill cops were killed a few years back......

they must have one hell of a tough job.............. here is one of their ex officers................can you believe this guy was once a cop?

http://www.kittner.com/images/portraits/chris_matthews_kittner.jpg

[JustRalph]

I will say that Danny Glover sounded almost rational.

for a change............

I loved his movie..........Batty21...... or was it Dingbat21? Whatever....any movie with Jerry Reed in it........is worth watching.........right Son?

[hcap]

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/blog-detail.php?id=13784

DeLay Says He'll File Ethics Complaint Against McKinney

By: Robert B. Bluey

Soon-to-retire Rep. Tom DeLay (R.-Tex.) said today he would file an ethics complaint against Rep. Cynthia McKinney (D.-Ga.) for striking a Capitol Police officer should no other House member do so first.

DeLay’s comments came during a wide-ranging interview at his Capitol Hill office with reporters, including HUMAN EVENTS Editor Terry Jeffrey.

“If nobody in this House files an ethics charge, I am,” DeLay said in response to a question about McKinney. “Her behavior is outrageous. And it’s not the only time.”


OK now this From Wolfie....

BLITZER: Some of your critics already have come out, and you know this quite well, and they say there are other reasons in effect right now; that the timing of your decision coming on the heels of a couple of your former top aides pleading guilty and now cooperating with federal prosecutors in this expanding lobbying investigation involving Jack Abramoff; that, that may have had a role to play in your decision to step down.

DELAY: I made this decision before I even knew that Tony Rudy was going to plead guilty. Those are people that believe in the politics of personal destruction. They've been trying to destroy my reputation for 10 years.

HA!,HA!,HA!,HA!,HA!,
HA!,HA!,HA!,HA!,HA!,
HA!,HA!,HA!,HA!,HA!,

[hcap]

For all youse outraged righty, morally holier than thou fellas.

Who are seemingly blowing a gasket over minor crap. Check this out.



Ken Blackwell, the Ohio Secretary of State who is also a GOP candidate for Governor -- the guy who chose the voting machines for his state -- and chose Diebold -- announced that he actually owned stock in Diebold:

Secretary of State Ken Blackwell made an embarrassing announcement Monday: He accidentally bought stock in Diebold Inc., a voting machine maker that benefited from decisions made by his office.

In a required filing with the Ohio Ethics Commission, the GOP gubernatorial hopeful said his hefty portfolio included 178 shares of Diebold stock, which sold for a loss.

"While I was unaware of this stock in my portfolio, its mere presence may be viewed as a conflict," Blackwell wrote in a letter that accompanies his annual financial disclosure statement.

Yeah dump on cynthia. Why not save your silly outrage for the real crooks???

[JustRalph]

Secretary of State Ken Blackwell made an embarrassing announcement Monday: He accidentally bought stock in Diebold Inc., a voting machine maker that benefited from decisions made by his office.

In a required filing with the Ohio Ethics Commission, the GOP gubernatorial hopeful said his hefty portfolio included 178 shares of Diebold stock, which sold for a loss.

"While I was unaware of this stock in my portfolio, its mere presence may be viewed as a conflict," Blackwell wrote in a letter that accompanies his annual financial disclosure statement.

Yeah dump on cynthia. Why not save your silly outrage for the real crooks???

yeah, I am so outraged :sleeping: I will think real hard about that when I pull the lever making Ken Blackwell the Governor...................

[lsbets]

Minor incident? She assaulted a police officer and is now trying to say its because she is black and she was justified in doing so because he didn't recognize her, even though she did not have the proper ID on her and she tried to go around a security checkpoint.

I don't consider assaulting a police officer to be either minor or partisan. I'm a little surprised that you do.

[Tom]

I don't consider assaulting a police officer to be either minor or partisan. I'm a little surprised that you do.

I'm not. Goes to character. He has none. Everything is a politcal event to him - he has no comprehnsion of the real world. A Typical lib - and why they lose elections. This bozo is the "Josh Lyman" of the real world.

[Indulto]

For all youse outraged righty, morally holier than thou fellas.

Who are seemingly blowing a gasket over minor crap. . . .

Yeah dump on cynthia. Why not save your silly outrage for the real crooks???hcap,
As your biggest fan (corpulently speaking), I hafta say, yer out in “left” field on this one!

Your references usually directly address the issue at hand, but this one (while still worthwhile in absolute terms) appears to have no bearing on the subject.


I’d appreciate a more reasoned explanation of your position since this woman's blatant disregard for authority and security precautions undermines the good will of all of us who submit to the currently inefficient airport procedures and endure maddening delays everywhere. Why do think this is a non-issue?

[lsbets]

Well said Indulto, but I am a little dissapointed that you abandoned last week's penchant for alliteration.

[toetoe]

In the hope of attaining a truly liberal paradise, I propose that we all aspire to moral inferiority. Whatever happens, let's just try to understand. If necessary, let's even smear whomever necessary, and kill the messenger, figuratively speaking. We're all tainted by original sin, and therefore imperfect. Whenever I whine about something, please remind me I'm not perfect, and I'll stop trippin.' Phew! I feel so good now, as if a huge moral weight had dropped off my back.

[betchatoo]

I backed off this subject until I had read more. I just completed reading a couple of more articles and several quotes by the congresswoman. As a confrmed liberal I have only one thing to say: This woman is a racist idiot

[Tom]

Looks like Grand Jury time.....GOOD!
Crap like this has got be challenged., This race card crap is getting old.

But what really gets me in this story, memebers of Congress do not have to go through the metal detectors, and apparently do not have to have valid ID with them. They wear a pin that has no ID on it, can be duplicated, and we rely on the guards "knowing who they are." :eek:

Does this sound like security to you?
Man oh man....does anyone in DC have any brains that work?

[twindouble]

Looks like Grand Jury time.....GOOD!
Crap like this has got be challenged., This race card crap is getting old.

But what really gets me in this story, memebers of Congress do not have to go through the metal detectors, and apparently do not have to have valid ID with them. They wear a pin that has no ID on it, can be duplicated, and we rely on the guards "knowing who they are." :eek:

Does this sound like security to you?
Man oh man....does anyone in DC have any brains that work?

They are all politicians, not handicappers with common sense. As a matter of fact they are totally disconnected from anything that makes sense. The only thing they have mastered is bull shit, the problem is there's a huge market for it in this country and it's recycled over and over.

[Indulto]

They are all politicians, not handicappers with common sense. As a matter of fact they are totally disconnected from anything that makes sense. The only thing they have mastered is bull shit, the problem is there's a huge market for it in this country and it's recycled over and over.TD,
You nailed it right on the nose. It's all a matter of excrement mastery. I mean, whoever said anything positive about Bull Sense. :D

[hcap]

I am not saying her actions are to be excused, but it's not much to get outraged about.

Considering ALL the corruption, and indictments happening on the OTHER side, yes this is minor crap.

1 Jack Abramoff, GOP lobbyist

2 Adam Kidan, DC Dial-a-Mattress franchise owner in DC and Abramoff associate since College Republican days when Abramoff was chairman

3 Michael Scanlon, former chief of staff to Tom DeLay

4 Steve Rosen, American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC)

5 Keith Weismann, AIPAC

6 Larry Franklin, Colonel, USAF Reserves, Dept. of Defense

7 Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice President’s Chief of Staff

8 David H. Safavian, Head of Procurement Policy, Office of Management and Budget, former Chief of Staff, General Service Administration

9 J. Steven Griles, former Interior Deputy Secretary

10 Ex-Corporation for Public Broadcasting Chairman and current Broadcasting Board of Governors member Kenneth Tomlinson

11 Tom Delay

12. 2 from DHS soliciting sex from minors.

The list goes on and on...

Of course than we have this...

* No nuclear weapons
* No WMD
* No collaborative relationship with al Qaeda
* International terrorism on the rise
* Botched reconstruction
* Anarchic civil war
* No independent Iraqi army
* No Iraqi government
* $300 billion spent and counting
* More than 2,300 U.S. troops dead
* An estimated 40-100,000 Iraqi civilians dead

So the right wing noise machine picks on a congresswomen for hitting a cop with a cell phone. Pretty feeble

[hcap]

Speaking of outrage.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1734939,00.html

'Iraq was awash in cash. We played football with bricks of $100 bills'

At the beginning of the Iraq war, the UN entrusted $23bn of Iraqi money to the US-led coalition to redevelop the country. With the infrastructure of the country still in ruins, where has all that money gone? Callum Macrae and Ali Fadhil on one of the greatest financial scandals of all time".

[JustRalph]

Hey Hcap, you are so worried about corrupt GOP members......maybe you should take a look at donor's to Mckinney. These guys scare me much more than a bunch of Glad handers handing out money. Please note the letter quoted below:

http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/290

Weblog
Cynthia McKinney's Arab and Islamist Donors
July 9, 2004
We all knew that Cynthia McKinney would be drawing on Arab and Muslim supporters in her bid to return to Congress, but a listing of contributors (with information up through June 28) reveals to what an extraordinary extent this is the case, as shown by the names of her backers.

Of particular note is the who's who of radical organizations her donors are associated with:

Hani Y. Awadallah – president, Arab American Civic Organization, New Jersey.

Jesse Aweida – co-founder, American Task Force on Palestine.

Belal Dalati – a vice president of Arab-American Broadcasting Co. (Orange County Register, February 19, 2002) associated with the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

Hasan Elkhatib –member, board of directors, American Islamic Educational Foundation (MetroWest Jewish News, October 10, 1996)

Yaser Elmenshawy - chairman, Islamic Council of New Jersey.

Rafeeq Jaber – president, Islamic Association for Palestine, a Hamas offshoot.

Oussama Jammal – president, Bridgeview Mosque.

Samer Khalaf – chairman, American-Arab Anti Discrimination Committee's Political Outreach Committee in New Jersey.

Faroque Khan – president, Islamic Center of Long Island, also connected to the American Muslim Alliance and Islamic Society of North America.

Mahmoud A Nimer - member, board of directors, Islamic Academy of Florida, Tampa (an Islamic school established by Sami al-Arian; al-Arian's indictment indicates the school was used as a base of support for the Palestinian Islamic Jihad).

Ayman Osman - member, board of directors, Islamic Academy of Florida, Tampa; employer of Hatem Fariz, arrested on terrorism charges and charged with being a member of Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

Talat Othman - former chairman of the Islamic Free Market Institute; secretary/treasurer of the American Task Force on Palestine.

Khalid Qazi – former president, American Muslim Council of western New York State.

Hareth Raddawi - member, board of directors, American-Arab Anti Discrimination Committee, Chicago.

Allam Reheem - former member, board of directors, Islamic Academy of Florida, Tampa.

Talal Sunbulli – former chairman, Council of Islamic Organizations of Greater Chicago.

James Zogby – president, Arab American Institute.

In addition, the American-Arab Anti Discrimination Committee gave $1,000.

Such an outpouring of extremist support comes as no shock; as Erick Stakelbeck documents in today's New York Post, "McKinney has long associated with militant Islamic groups whose members have openly supported terrorism," plus "she has taken to the floor of the House to defend them."

Comment: Georgia holds its primary on July 20; should McKinney win it, as seems likely, radical Arab and Muslim causes will have achieved their first significant electoral victory in the United States. (July 9, 2004)

July 21, 2004 update: "This victory means that her constituents missed her. She is a great lady, and I am delighted she won [the primary]." So gloated Abed Hammoud, president of the Dearborn, Mich.-based Arab-American Political Action Committee, as quoted in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

Aug. 23, 2004 update: I admit to being a bit behind the news on this, but two years ago, on Aug. 1, 2002 "Indepundit" posted a listing with $13,850 in campaign contributions to McKinney given on 9/11 itself – yes, that date – as listed at OpenSecrets.org (unfortunately, the link to individual contributions there no longer works, only to the summaries; for a complete listing of McKinney's 2001 donors, see the posting a FreeRepublic.com). I have helpfully starred all those who have since August 2002 found themselves in trouble with the law:

Waseem Ahmed, a physician from Las Vegas, donated $250.

* Abdurahman Alamoudi, the Director of the American Muslim Foundation, donated $2,000.

Abdulwahab Alkebsi, Executive Director of the Islamic Institute, donated $700.

* Abdelhaleem Ashqar, a Howard University professor, donated $250.

Nihad Awad, Director of the Council on American Islamic Relations, donated $500.

Khaliq Baig of Las Vegas donated $500.

Yaser Bushnaq, a computer consultant from Falls Church, VA, donated $500.

Bashir Chowdhry of Las Vegas donated $500.

Shaheen Chowdhry of Las Vegas donated $250.

Atif Fareed, a Southwest Airlines pilot from Henderson, NV, donated $1,000.

Donna Genena of Las Vegas donated $500.

Osama Haikal, a physician from Henderson, NV, donated $500.

Faisal Hasan, a lobbyist for CarFax, donated $600.

Hassan Ibrahim of Centreville, MD, donated $1,000.

Ray Irani, Chairman & Chief Executive Officer of Occidental Petroleum, donated $1,000.

Sabah Jabri of San Diego donated $250.

* Yaqub Mirza, President of Mar Jac Investments, donated $500.

Ahmed Monib of Las Vegas donated $250.

Mohamed Omeish, Vice President of the American Muslim Foundation, donated $500.

Sayed Qazi, a Las Vegas physician, donated $1,000.

Yousef Saleh of Springfield, VA, donated $300.

* Ahmad Totonji of Herndon, VA, donated $1,000.

Looking over this same 2002 financial data, Thomas B. Edsall of the Washington Post concluded that "At least three-quarters of the $234,299 that McKinney has raised from individuals this year is from donors with Muslim or Arab American surnames, the great majority of whom live outside her district." And Niraj Warikoo reports in the Detroit Free Press that McKinney "is strongly backed by Arab and Muslim groups for her outspoken support of Palestinian rights. During a private dinner of shish kebab in West Bloomfield[, Michigan] this month, Muslim donors gave more than $20,000 to her campaign."

This outpouring of support may have had to do with the enthusiastic backing McKinney won from Islamist organizations. For example, the political action committee belonging to the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) sent out an e-mail message in July 2002 titled "CAIR-PAC Urges Support for Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney." It includes the following unrestrained text:

Dear Friends:

Take a real step now towards POLITICAL EMPOWERMENT of the American Muslim community.

Write your check to "McKinney for Congress". In the memo line, please write "Friends of CAIR-PAC" …

Background:

Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney (D-4th, Georgia), who is arguably the strongest supporter of issues of concern to the American Muslim community, urgently needs our help to win re-election. She has consistently and unflinchingly supported a balanced US foreign policy in the Middle East and has opposed lopsided bills that harm the interests of America, Israel and the Muslim world. She is a strong defender of civil liberties of all Americans and is known throughout the world as the voice of the voiceless - the champion of human rights. She has condemned racial profiling of any and all Americans and has consistently spoken out against the Secret Evidence Act and other legislative measures which seek to discriminate against certain racial minorities in this country. She is also the first and only African-American woman ever elected to Congress from the state of Georgia. …

Take REAL ACTION now to help Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney win re-election.

WE MUST STAND BY THOSE WHO STAND BY US!

Now is the time to step forward and MAKE A DIFFERENCE by donating to Congresswoman McKinney's campaign. She needs this help TODAY to defeat an opponent who will staunchly oppose a balanced and fair US foreign policy in the Middle East.

Act now and save a friend and supporter of our community and its issues. A win for McKinney is not only a win for the Muslim community but it is also a vital victory for those in Israel and the greater world community who also want peace and justice in the Middle East. Her victory will also give strength to those other members of Congress who also want to vote their conscience on issues relating to the Middle East.

[rrpic6]

www.tomdelay.com (http://www.tomdelay.com) Hurry you can still make donations to this great American. Since he won the Republican Primary, he gets to keep any and all of his campaign money. He can now use this money towards his defense fund. Talk about stealing an election. He does have a real love for his people. His webpage is great, THREE different places to click on to give him more money. He sure must think highly of those that go to his site.

[Lefty]

hcap, and rr, there ya go again, changing the subject.
I submit it IS a big deal when you hit a police officer. You try it and see how fast you land in the clink.

[Tom]

Lefty,
Not only when you hit a cop, but when you play the race card, it is also a big deal. This is crap and everyone knows it. People who do this are the real racists and they insult all people who are not.
I hope this bitch oens jail time. Maybe she will understand what REAL unwarranted contact means! :lol:

[Lefty]

Tom, you are so right. When they cry racism where it does not exists it weakens the cases where real racism exists. Just like the boy who cried "wolf."

[rrpic6]

hcap, and rr, there ya go again, changing the subject.
I submit it IS a big deal when you hit a police officer. You try it and see how fast you land in the clink.
Don't you have an opinion on DeLay? He'll know the real meaning of "Hammer" when he meets some new pals in jail.

[lsbets]

Don't you have an opinion on DeLay? He'll know the real meaning of "Hammer" when he meets some new pals in jail.

Start a thread on Delay if you want to know what people think of him. This one was about a congresswoman who assaulted a police officer. I'm sure you wouldn't want to trivialize an assault on a police officer by changing the subject. Support for the police should not be based on partisanship.

[Tom]

Tom, you are so right. When they cry racism where it does not exists it weakens the cases where real racism exists. Just like the boy who cried "wolf."

It is really hypocritical to cry racism when you are part of the "Black Caucus!" which, by it's very name is aracist organization.

But now she is back peddling.......they apparently are not ready to waste their time defending an obviously incompetant bitch. Smacked her down last night. The race card usually depends on people getting scarred and backing down. It is trumped by the Truth Card every time.

[Indulto]

I am not saying her actions are to be excused, but it's not much to get outraged about.

Considering ALL the corruption, and indictments happening on the OTHER side, yes this is minor crap.

. . . So the right wing noise machine picks on a congresswomen for hitting a cop with a cell phone. Pretty feeblehcap,
Just as McKInney played the race card, you are invoking political bias. This NOT a Dem/Rep, Right/Left issue, but a right/wrong one.

Respectfully,
Indulto

[JustRalph]

From Newsmax:

Here's a short list of investigations the GOP should have launched - not for reasons of partisan revenge - but because they warranted the full oversight of the party in control of Congress:

• Bergergate: The theft and destruction of top secret national security documents by former National Security Advisor Sandy Berger in a blatant attempt to obstruct the 9/11 Commission investigation.

Berger's crime was easily one of the most serious ever committed by a top government official. Yet the GOP Congress declined to probe further after the Bush Justice Department cut such an embarrassingly light plea bargain that even the Berger case judge was appalled.

• Rathergate: You'd never know it from the lethargic Republican reaction, but when a mysterious Texas source supplied forgeries of President Bush's military records to CBS News just weeks before the 2004 election, it was a felony punishable by up to 20 years in prison. Compounding the political intrigue, CBS tipped a top staffer in the Kerry campaign on the coming Bush document assault.

But after Texas authorities declined to pursue a request for a criminal investigation from several GOP House members, the matter was promptly dropped. Republican congressional interest in getting to the bottom this scheme to steal the 2004 election after Texas authorities opted out: Zippo.

• Schumergate: The illegal purloining of Lt. Gov. Michael Steele's credit report by staffers on Sen. Chuck Schumer's Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee certainly seemed like a ripe topic for some congressional oversight. But like the Bergergate case, it appears that Bush Justice will let the guilty parties off with a slap on the wrist - without fingering any higher ups.

• Nukegate: We've already had several hearings into President Bush's so-called illegal NSA terrorist surveillance program, which was first revealed in James Risen's new book: "State of War."

But there's been little interest in the other bombshell development revealed by Risen: President Clinton's decision to give Iran doctored blueprints for key nuclear components that allowed the Iranians, in Risen's words, to "leapfrog one of the last remaining engineering hurdles blocking its path to a nuclear weapon."

With Sen. John McCain now predicting "Armageddon" as a result of the Iranian nuclear threat, one might think that a report like this might be ripe for congressional investigation.

The list of Democrat scandals passed up by Republicans could probably fill a book. But others that deserve honorable mention are the surpression of the Barrett Report, media leaks by anti-Bush CIA insiders and a probe into Sen. Robert Byrd's activities while he was a leader in the Ku Klux Klan.

[rrpic6]

I guess Just Ralph and i are so excited by these other scandals, we can't wait to write about them any place we can. Starting a new thread would be an effort.

[hcap]

Indulto Just as McKInney played the race card, you are invoking political bias. This NOT a Dem/Rep, Right/Left issue, but a right/wrong one.All questionable events that take place in the political realm become fodder for the other side. It IS a political football.
My point is that this particular so-called "outrage" is more of a football than a real ta-do.

Looks like an overreaction by a thin skinned congresswoman. A spontaneous but not pre-meditated crime that currently is so rampant on the repug side.

Almost like a street brawl vs a series of true malignant white collar crimes.
No comparison

[Indulto]

Originally posted by hcap:
All questionable events that take place in the political realm become fodder for the other side. It IS a political football.
My point is that this particular so-called "outrage" is more of a football than a real ta-do.

Looks like an overreaction by a thin skinned congresswoman. A spontaneous but not pre-meditated crime that currently is so rampant on the repug side.

Almost like a street brawl vs a series of true malignant white collar crimes.
No comparisonhcap,

By refusing to acknowledge this blatant misconduct and attempting to trivialize what even a child knows is wrong, you sacrifice credibility. The scale of the offense is insignificant. By denying the obvious, the Dems are snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. All that is being achieved is that the average person is becoming convinced that Dems have no common sense, and are being driven into the arms of the opposition.

An opportunity to demonstrate leadership and prove that the Dems won’t accept misconduct by their own -- and thus gain the higher moral ground from which to further pressure the Reps into doing the same -- has been wasted. Do you really think anybody is willing to hear what the definition of “it” is?

[hcap]

Indulto,

It is trivial. And it is already politicized by the noise machine of the right wing.

It is their story du jour.

I appreciate your insights often. But I think you equivocate on major misdeeds by real criminals and misdemeanors of minor players. Remember who got us into this mess. A world many times more dangerous than when these so-called adults first took office. A world made worse by incompetance and deception.

Balance that with slapping a cop.

Blatant, yes. Important, no.

[JustRalph]

A world many times more dangerous than when these so-called adults first took office.

Yep, ask those guys who died on the USS Cole if the world was much safer back before this admin took office?

Ask the guys in Khobar Towers how safe it was?

Try this list for the previous administrations term

Manila Bombing, December 30, 2000:
A bomb exploded in a plaza across the street from the [B]U.S. Embassy in Manila, injuring nine persons. The Moro Islamic Liberation Front was likely responsible.

Helicopter Hijacking, October 12, 2000:
In Sucumbios Province, Ecuador, a group of armed kidnappers led by former members of defunct Colombian terrorist organization the Popular Liberation Army (EPL), took hostage 10 employees of Spanish energy consortium REPSOL. Those kidnapped included five U.S. citizens, one Argentine, one Chilean, one New Zealander, and two French pilots who escaped four days later. On January 30, 2001, the kidnappers murdered American hostage Ronald Sander. The remaining hostages were released on February 23 following the payment of $13 million in ransom by the oil companies.

Attack on U.S.S. Cole, October 12, 2000:
In Aden, Yemen, a small dingy carrying explosives rammed the destroyer U.S.S. Cole, killing 17 sailors and injuring 39 others. Supporters of Usama Bin Laden were suspected.

Church Bombing in Tajikistan, October 1, 2000:
Unidentified militants detonated two bombs in a Christian church in Dushanbe, killing seven persons and injuring 70 others. The church was founded by a Korean-born U.S. citizen, and most of those killed and wounded were Korean. No one claimed responsibility.

Kidnappings in Kyrgyzstan, August 12, 2000:
In the Kara-Su Valley, the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan took four U.S. citizens hostage. The Americans escaped on August 12.

ELN Kidnapping, June 27, 2000:
In Bogota, Colombia, ELN militants kidnapped a 5-year-old U.S. citizen and his Colombian mother, demanding an undisclosed ransom.

RUF Attacks on U.N. Mission Personnel, May 1, 2000:
On 1 May in Makeni, Sierra Leone, Revolutionary United Front (RUF) militants kidnapped at least 20 members of the United Nations Assistance Mission in Sierra Leone (UNAMSIL) and surrounded and opened fire on a UNAMSIL facility, according to press reports. The militants killed five UN soldiers in the attack. RUF militants kidnapped 300 UNAMSIL peacekeepers throughout the country, according to press reports. On 15 May in Foya, Liberia, the kidnappers released 139 hostages. On 28 May, on the Liberia and Sierra Leone border, armed militants released unharmed the last of the UN peacekeepers.

In Freetown, according to press reports, armed militants ambushed two military vehicles carrying four journalists. A Spaniard and one U.S. citizen were killed in a May 25 car bombing in Freetown for which the RUF was probably responsible. Suspected RUF rebels also kidnapped 21 Indian UN peacekeepers in Freetown on June 6. Additional attacks by RUF on foreign personnel followed.

PLA Kidnapping, December 23, 1999:
Colombian People's Liberation Army (PLA) forces kidnapped a U.S. citizen in an unsuccessful ransoming effort.

Burmese Embassy Seizure, October 1, 1999:
Burmese dissidents seized the Burmese Embassy in Bangkok, Thailand, taking 89 persons hostage, including one U.S. citizen.

AFRC Kidnappings, August 4, 1999:
An Armed Forces Revolutionary Council (AFRC) faction kidnapped 33 UN representatives near Occra Hills, Sierra Leone. The hostages included one U.S. citizen, five British soldiers, one Canadian citizen, one representative from Ghana, one military officer from Russia, one officer from Kyrgystan, one officer from Zambia, one officer from Malaysia, a local Bishop, two UN officials, two local journalists, and 16 Sierra Leonean nationals.

Shell Platform Bombing, June 27, 1999:
In Port Harcourt, Nigeria, armed youths stormed a Shell oil platform, kidnapping one U.S. citizen, one Nigerian national, and one Australian citizen, and causing undetermined damage. A group calling itself "Enough is Enough in the Niger River" claimed responsibility. Further seizures of oil facilities followed.

ELN Hostage-taking, May 30, 1999:
In Cali, Colombia, armed ELN militants attacked a church in the neighborhood of Ciudad Jardin, kidnapping 160 persons, including six U.S. citizens and one French national. The rebels released approximately 80 persons, including three U.S. citizens, later that day.

ELN Hostage-taking, March 23, 1999:
Armed guerrillas kidnapped a U.S. citizen in Boyaca, Colombia. The National Liberation Army (ELN) claimed responsibility and demanded $400,000 ransom. On 20 July, ELN rebels released the hostage unharmed following a ransom payment of $48,000.

Hutu Abductions, March 1, 1999:
150 armed Hutu rebels attacked three tourist camps in Uganda, killed four Ugandans, and abducted three U.S. citizens, six Britons, three New Zealanders, two Danish citizens, one Australian, and one Canadian national. Two of the U.S. citizens and six of the other hostages were subsequently killed by their abductors.

FARC Kidnappings, February 25, 1999:
FARC kidnapped three U.S. citizens working for the Hawaii-based Pacific Cultural Conservancy International. On March 4, the bodies of the three victims were found in Venezuela.

Ugandan Rebel Attack, February 14, 1999:
A pipe bomb exploded inside a bar, killing five persons and injuring 35 others. One Ethiopian and four Ugandan nationals died in the blast, and one U.S. citizen working for USAID, two Swiss nationals, one Pakistani, one Ethiopian, and 27 Ugandans were injured. Ugandan authorities blamed the attack on the Allied Democratic Forces (ADF).

Angolan Aircraft Downing, January 2, 1999:
A UN plane carrying one U.S. citizen, four Angolans, two Philippine nationals and one Namibian was shot down, according to a UN official. No deaths or injuries were reported. Angolan authorities blamed the attack on National Union for the Total Independence of Angola (UNITA) rebels. UNITA officials denied shooting down the plane.

Armed Kidnapping in Colombia, November 15, 1998:
Armed assailants followed a U.S. businessman and his family home in Cundinamarca Department and kidnapped his 11-year-old son after stealing money, jewelry, one automobile, and two cell phones. The kidnappers demanded $1 million in ransom. On January 21, 1999, the kidnappers released the boy.

Colombian Pipeline Bombing, October 18, 1998:
A National Liberation Army (ELN) planted bomb exploded on the Ocensa pipeline in Antioquia Department, killing approximately 71 persons and injuring at least 100 others. The pipeline is jointly owned by the Colombia State Oil Company Ecopetrol and a consortium including U.S., French, British, and Canadian companies.

U.S. Embassy Bombings in East Africa, August 7, 1998:
A bomb exploded at the rear entrance of the U.S. Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya, killing 12 U.S. citizens, 32 Foreign Service Nationals (FSNs), and 247 Kenyan citizens. Approximately 5,000 Kenyans, 6 U.S. citizens, and 13 FSNs were injured. The U.S. Embassy building sustained extensive structural damage. Almost simultaneously, a bomb detonated outside the U.S. Embassy in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, killing 7 FSNs and 3 Tanzanian citizens, and injuring 1 U.S. citizen and 76 Tanzanians. The explosion caused major structural damage to the U.S. Embassy facility. The U.S. Government held Usama Bin Laden responsible.

Somali Hostage-takings, April 15, 1998:
Somali militiamen abducted nine Red Cross and Red Crescent workers at an airstrip north of Mogadishu. The hostages included a U.S. citizen, a German, a Belgian, a French, a Norwegian, two Swiss, and one Somali. The gunmen were members of a sub-clan loyal to Ali Mahdi Mohammed, who controlled the northern section of the capital.

FARC Abduction, March 21-23, 1998:
FARC rebels kidnapped a US citizen in Sabaneta, Colombia. FARC members also killed three persons, wounded 14, and kidnapped at least 27 others at a roadblock near Bogota. Four U.S. citizens and one Italian were among those kidnapped, as well as the acting president of the National Electoral Council (CNE) and his wife.

Murder of U.S. Businessmen in Pakistan, November 12, 1997:
Two unidentified gunmen shot to death four U.S. auditors from Union Texas Petroleum Corporation and their Pakistani driver after they drove away from the Sheraton Hotel in Karachi. The Islami Inqilabi Council, or Islamic Revolutionary Council, claimed responsibility in a call to the U.S. Consulate in Karachi. In a letter to Pakistani newspapers, the Aimal Khufia Action Committee also claimed responsibility.

Yemeni Kidnappings, October 30, 1997:
Al-Sha'if tribesmen kidnapped a U.S. businessman near Sanaa. The tribesmen sought the release of two fellow tribesmen who were arrested on smuggling charges and several public works projects they claim the government promised them. They released the hostage on November 27.

Israeli Shopping Mall Bombing, September 4, 1997:
Three suicide bombers of HAMAS detonated bombs in the Ben Yehuda shopping mall in Jerusalem, killing eight persons, including the bombers, and wounding nearly 200 others. A dual U.S./Israeli citizen was among the dead, and 7 U.S. citizens were wounded.

Hotel Nacional Bombing, July 12, 1997:
A bomb exploded at the Hotel Nacional in Havana, injuring three persons and causing minor damage. A previously unknown group calling itself the Military Liberation Union claimed responsibility.

FARC Kidnapping, March 7, 1997:
FARC guerrillas kidnapped a U.S. mining employee and his Colombian colleague who were searching for gold in Colombia. On November 16, the rebels released the two hostages after receiving a $50,000 ransom.

ELN Kidnapping, February 24, 1997:
National Liberation Army (ELN) guerrillas kidnapped a U.S. citizen employed by a Las Vegas gold corporation who was scouting a gold mining operation in Colombia. The ELN demanded a ransom of $2.5 million.

Empire State Building Sniper Attack, February 23, 1997:
A Palestinian gunman opened fire on tourists at an observation deck atop the Empire State Building in New York City, killing a Danish national and wounding visitors from the United States, Argentina, Switzerland, and France before turning the gun on himself. A handwritten note carried by the gunman claimed this was a punishment attack against the "enemies of Palestine."

Venezuelan Abduction, February 14, 1997:
Six armed Colombian guerrillas kidnapped a US oil engineer and his Venezuelan pilot in Apure, Venezuela. The kidnappers released the Venezuelan pilot on 22 February. According to authorities, the FARC is responsible for the kidnapping.

Egyptian Letter Bombs, January 2-13, 1997:
A series of letter bombs with Alexandria, Egypt, postmarks were discovered at Al-Hayat newspaper bureaus in Washington, New York City, London, and Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Three similar devices, also postmarked in Egypt, were found at a prison facility in Leavenworth, Kansas. Bomb disposal experts defused all the devices, but one detonated at the Al-Hayat office in London, injuring two security guards and causing minor damage.

Tupac Amaru Seizure of Diplomats, December 17, 1996:
Twenty-three members of the Tupac Amaru Revolutionary Movement (MRTA) took several hundred people hostage at a party given at the Japanese Ambassador's residence in Lima, Peru. Among the hostages were several US officials, foreign ambassadors and other diplomats, Peruvian Government officials, and Japanese businessmen. The group demanded the release of all MRTA members in prison and safe passage for them and the hostage takers. The terrorists released most of the hostages in December but held 81 Peruvians and Japanese citizens for several months.

Abduction of US. Citizen by FARC, December 11, 1996:
Five armed men claiming to be members of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) kidnapped and later killed a U.S. geologist at a methane gas exploration site in La Guajira Department.

Paris Subway Explosion, December 3, 1996:
A bomb exploded aboard a Paris subway train as it arrived at the Port Royal station, killing two French nationals, a Moroccan, and a Canadian, and injuring 86 persons. Among those injured were one U.S. citizen and a Canadian. No one claimed responsibility for the attack, but Algerian extremists are suspected.

Red Cross Worker Kidnappings, November 1, 1996:
In Sudan a breakaway group from the Sudanese People's Liberation Army (SPLA) kidnapped three International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) workers, including a U.S. citizen, an Australian, and a Kenyan. On 9 December the rebels released the hostages in exchange for ICRC supplies and a health survey for their camp.

PUK Kidnapping, September 13, 1996:
In Iraq, Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) militants kidnapped four French workers for Pharmaciens Sans Frontieres, a Canadian United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) official, and two Iraqis.

Sudanese Rebel Kidnapping, August 17, 1996:
Sudan People's Liberation Army (SPLA) rebels kidnapped six missionaries in Mapourdit, including a U.S. citizen, an Italian, three Australians, and a Sudanese. The SPLA released the hostages 11 days later.

Khobar Towers Bombing, June 25, 1996:
A fuel truck carrying a bomb exploded outside the US military's Khobar Towers housing facility in Dhahran, killing 19 U.S. military personnel and wounding 515 persons, including 240 U.S. personnel. Several groups claimed responsibility for the attack.

Zekharya Attack, June 9, 1996:
Unidentified gunmen opened fire on a car near Zekharya, killing a dual U.S./Israeli citizen and an Israeli. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) was suspected.

AID Worker Abduction, May 31, 1996:
A gang of former Contra guerrillas kidnapped a U.S. employee of the Agency for International Development (AID) who was assisting with election preparations in rural northern Nicaragua. She was released unharmed the next day after members of the international commission overseeing the preparations intervened.

West Bank Attack, May 13, 1996:
Arab gunmen opened fire on a bus and a group of Yeshiva students near the Bet El settlement, killing a dual U.S./Israeli citizen and wounding three Israelis. No one claimed responsibility for the attack, but HAMAS was suspected.

Dizengoff Center Bombing, March 4, 1996:
HAMAS and the Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ) both claimed responsibility for a bombing outside of Tel Aviv's largest shopping mall that killed 20 persons and injured 75 others, including 2 U.S. citizens.

HAMAS Bus Attack, February 26, 1996:
In Jerusalem, a suicide bomber blew up a bus, killing 26 persons, including three U.S. citizens, and injuring some 80 persons, including three other US citizens.

ELN Kidnapping, February 16, 1996:
Six alleged National Liberation Army (ELN) guerrillas kidnapped a U.S. citizen in Colombia. After 9 months, the hostage was released.

Athens Embassy Attack, February 15, 1996:
Unidentified assailants fired a rocket at the U.S. Embassy compound in Athens, causing minor damage to three diplomatic vehicles and some surrounding buildings. Circumstances of the attack suggested it was an operation carried out by the 17 November group.

IRA Bombing, February 9, 1996:
An Irish Republican Army (IRA) bomb detonated in London, killing 2 persons and wounding more than 100 others, including 2 U.S. citizens.

Tamil Tigers Attack, January 31, 1996:
Members of the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) rammed an explosives-laden truck into the Central Bank in the heart of downtown Colombo, Sri Lanka, killing 90 civilians and injuring more than 1,400 others, including 2 US citizens.

Kidnapping in Colombia, January 19, 1996:
Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) guerrillas kidnapped a US citizen and demanded a $1 million ransom. The hostage was released on May 22.

Saudi Military Installation Attack, November 13, 1995:
The Islamic Movement of Change planted a bomb in a Riyadh military compound that killed one U.S. citizen, several foreign national employees of the U.S. government, and over 40 others.

Attack on U.S. Embassy in Moscow, September 13, 1995:
A rocket-propelled grenade was fired through the window of the U.S. Embassy in Moscow, ostensibly in retaliation for U.S. strikes on Serb positions in Bosnia.

Jerusalem Bus Attack, August 21, 1995:
HAMAS claimed responsibility for the detonation of a bomb that killed 6 and injured over 100 persons, including several U.S. citizens.

Kashmiri Hostage-taking, July 4, 1995: In India six foreigners, including two U.S. citizens, were taken hostage by Al-Faran, a Kashmiri separatist group. One non-U.S. hostage was later found beheaded.

Bombing of the Federal Building in Oklahoma City, April 19, 1995:
Right-wing extremists Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols destroyed the Federal Building in Oklahoma City with a massive truck bomb that killed 166 and injured hundreds more in what was up to then the largest terrorist attack on American soil.

Attack on U.S. Diplomats in Pakistan, March 8, 1995:
Two unidentified gunmen killed two U.S. diplomats and wounded a third in Karachi, Pakistan.

FARC Hostage-taking, September 23, 1994:
FARC rebels kidnapped U.S. citizen Thomas Hargrove in Colombia.

Hebron Massacre, February 25, 1994:
Jewish right-wing extremist and U.S. citizen Baruch Goldstein machine-gunned Moslem worshippers at a mosque in West Bank town of Hebron, killing 29 and wounding about 150.

Attempted Assassination of President Bush by Iraqi Agents, April 14, 1993:
The Iraqi intelligence service attempted to assassinate former U.S. President George Bush during a visit to Kuwait. In retaliation, the U.S. launched a cruise missile attack 2 months later on the Iraqi capital Baghdad.

World Trade Center Bombing, February 26, 1993:The World Trade Center in New York City was badly damaged when a car bomb planted by Islamic terrorists exploded in an underground garage. The bomb left 6 people dead and 1,000 injured. The men carrying out the attack were followers of Umar Abd al-Rahman, an Egyptian cleric who preached in the New York City area.

Kidnappings of U.S. Citizens in Colombia, January 31, 1993:
Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) terrorists kidnapped three U.S. missionaries.

Kidnapping of U.S. Businessmen in the Philippines, January 17-21, 1992:
A senior official of the corporation Philippine Geothermal was kidnapped in Manila by the Red Scorpion Group, and two U.S. businessmen were seized independently by the National Liberation Army and by Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC).

[lsbets]

Hcap -

Go to the airport this weekend. Attempt to bypass security and when stopped, slap the officer with your cell phone. Then tell the judge its trivial. I'll even back you up as a character witness. I think as an ordinary citizen you wouldn't get to walk free while the grand jury looked into it. Your trivial act would lead you straight to jail.

[Lefty]

lsbets, maybe if h'cap says it's a spontaneous act...
Nah, that won't work.

[Indulto]

I appreciate your insights often. But I think you equivocate on major misdeeds by real criminals and misdemeanors of minor players. Remember who got us into this mess. A world many times more dangerous than when these so-called adults first took office. A world made worse by incompetance and deception.

Balance that with slapping a cop.

Blatant, yes. Important, no.hcap,
I never advocated less diligence in pursuing the "major misdeeds" by the "real criminals" and I admire your effectiveness in making the case against them when few around you are willing or even capable of doing so.

But it's not an either/or situation and every rational person of every ethnic group in America is capable of making this case and understanding the ramifications of not addressing it properly. Pelosi and others are allowing themselves to be used by McKinney to turn it into a Black/White issue, and now by the Reps into an anti-Arab opportunity.

Let's not lose the leverage Libby's legal problems afford to deal with the "real" criminals by trying to distract the public from a fool's arrogance and VIOLENT behavior. How will Dems get the big things done if they can't get the small stuff straight?

Cheney shot his friend in the face, but the Dems are shooting themselves in the foot.:mad:

[hcap]

lsbets Hcap -
Go to the airport this weekend. Attempt to bypass security and when stopped, slap the officer with your cell phone. Then tell the judge its trivial. I'll even back you up as a character witness. I think as an ordinary citizen you wouldn't get to walk free while the grand jury looked into it. Your trivial act would lead you straight to jail.Whenever the heat gets turned up some on the festuring repub scandals, the failing Iraq war, or the obvious dishonesty and incompetance of our current leaders, the right magnifies RELATIVELY minor misdemeanors on the left.

Political, without question the left would do the same.

BUT there are facts that transcend politics solely. The importance of the Cynthia McKinney story as well the Islamic cartoon hullabaloo are simply chicken droppings compared to the misdeeds of george bush and his cast of cronnies, and the severe damage he and they have done to this nation and the world.

Now if I were to cell phone slap a cop it would be trivial to the rest of the world. It would not be right. No argument. And it would not be trivial to me. But if I were to lie about knowledge of a major crime-one where many others were seriously hurt or killed, I think you would agree I would be guilty of a much more serious offense. Whether I personally was involved or not.

Go ahead muck around with this silly story and you are just spinning political wheels. After all this tread is about McKinney, and I support free expression, but in the scheme of things happenning now, whether or not she is jailed or continues congresswomening, it is trivial.

I also understand as bush' approval ratings are in the toilet, some distractions are required to shore up those enlistees in the bush cargo cult.

[Tom]

I also understand as bush' approval ratings are in the toilet, some distractions are required to shore up those enlistees in the bush cargo cult.


You are now blaming BUSH for this bitch's actions????

[toetoe]

It's true that the press choose which stories we should see. No denying that.

Not sure what it means, but 'Bush cargo cult' has a wonderful ring to it. :ThmbUp:

[lsbets]

You are now blaming BUSH for this bitch's actions????

Yes, when she was getting her hair done, Karl Rove secretly had a chip implanted into her brain which allowed him to control her actions. Just like the wizard of Oz, he sat behind the curtain and made her hit the cop and than made her defend herself as a victim of racism. Damn that Rove, there is no end to his evil!

[hcap]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult

"Cargo cults have been recorded since the 19th century, but have been continuously growing since World War II. The cult participants generally do not fully understand the significance of manufacturing or commerce. They have limited purchasing authority. Their understanding of western society, religion, and economics may be rudimentary. These cults are a response to the resulting confusion and insecurity. They rationalize their situation by the reference to religious and magical symbols they associate with Christianity and modern western society. Across cultural differences and large geographic areas, there have been instances of the movements independently organizing.

The most famous examples of Cargo Cult behavior are the airstrips, airports, and radios made out of coconuts and straw. The cult members built them in the belief that the structures would attract transport planes full of cargo. Believers stage "drills" and "marches" with twigs for rifles and military-style insignia and "USA" painted on their bodies to make them look like soldiers.

...Eventually the cargo cults petered out. But, from time to time, the term "cargo cult" is invoked as an English language idiom, to mean any group of people who imitate the superficial exterior of a process or system without having any understanding of the underlying substance."

[Indulto]

Yes, when she was getting her hair done, Karl Rove secretly had a chip implanted into her brain which allowed him to control her actions. Just like the wizard of Oz, he sat behind the curtain and made her hit the cop and than made her defend herself as a victim of racism. Damn that Rove, there is no end to his evil!:lol:

lsbets,
That's the spirit! But is it really fiction?

[hcap]

LsYes, when she was getting her hair done, Karl Rove secretly had a chip implanted into her brain which allowed him to control her actions. Just like the wizard of Oz, he sat behind the curtain and made her hit the cop and than made her defend herself as a victim of racism. Damn that Rove, there is no end to his evil!Is there no end to roves' shennagans?
First bush, now McKinney

Tom Bitch? eh? Not quite rascist but give that monkey brain a cigar.

Why don't youse guys ready the neutron bombs and ship her to Iran.
Two birds with one stone. Clean, neat and all that oil.

Outstanding :jump:

[Indulto]

Go ahead muck around with this silly story and you are just spinning political wheels. After all this tread is about McKinney, and I support free expression, but in the scheme of things happenning now, whether or not she is jailed or continues congresswomening, it is trivial.

. . . I also understand as bush' approval ratings are in the toilet, some distractions are required to shore up those enlistees in the bush cargo cult.hcap,
You're no slouch at distractions, either.

[toetoe]

Wow, that is a very intriguing subject. I NEVER heard of this. I know it would take more than a couple of minutes, but wouldn't it be a kick if the happy-talk newspeople on TV mentioned cargo cults, thus forgoing the cat-mates-with-dog, couple-spend-nest-egg-on-lottery-tickets stories?

[hcap]

My effort at distraction is not distraction. It's an effort to redirect. Do you suggest I only add to other threads where McKinney is not mentioned? And isolate and confine my thinking to those only?

The McKinney story is not only is it a distraction, but it helps the cargo culters ( Ann??) to puff out their chests and magnify their own "rightness"

Criticize a lefty congresswomen. That way the bamboolizing symbols of the bush cargo cult become front and center.

Meanwhile bush is continuing to lie across the board, and even tho' the country-other than the cargo crew on this board-don't trust him or his cronies, he probably thinks he is doing great presidenting. Too bad it's such hard work.

The McKinney “slapping incident” has become 24-hour fodder for faux news and other right-wing bush groupies. Oh yeah, Mr Hammer Tom DeLay, on his way out in disgrace, called McKinney an “arrogant racist. On the very day deLay announced his resignation from the house,

[Tom]

As more truth comes out, it appears that this bitch has a history of mis-treating DC police officers, in similar situations - her racist inner self really shows when you look closely at her. It is always white cops who are the target of her so-called superiority. I think the word bitch applies nicely, hcap.

[toetoe]

Ann The Culter. Nice piece of coultry there. :D

[Indulto]

My effort at distraction is not distraction. It's an effort to redirect. Do you suggest I only add to other threads where McKinney is not mentioned? And isolate and confine my thinking to those only?
Maybe so except for the last sentence.

It frustrates me that all the good points you make with 99% of your argument are being ignored in favor of the 1% every one else is concentrating on in this thread. The same information in other threads might get the attention it deserves. Thats why candidates for elected office use campign consultants. You're not wrong -- just singing in a different key.

I do understand the principle involved, but I don't see it as a metter of conscience. You obviously do, so go for it. I've said my piece I guess the phrase "rather be right than be President" applies here.

[Ponyplayr]

[

Why don't youse guys ready the neutron bombs and ship her to Iran.
Two birds with one stone. Clean, neat and all that oil.

Outstanding :jump:[/QUOTE]

hmmm..I think you might be on to something....this could work:lol:

[Tom]

My effort at distraction is not distraction. It's an effort to redirect. SAME THING. Do you suggest I only add to other threads where McKinney is not mentioned? ON TOPIC MIGHT BE NICE And isolate and confine my thinking to those only? THINKING.....HAHAHAHAHA

The McKinney story is not only is it a distraction, but it helps the cargo culters ( Ann??) to puff out their chests and magnify their own "rightness"LIKE YOU DO IN ESSENTIALLY EVERY POST - YOU CHERRY PICK NEGATIVE THINGS ABOUT REPUBS AND HAVE THE GALL TO SAY THIS???

Criticize a lefty congresswomen. That way the bamboolizing symbols of the bush cargo cult become front and center. NO, NOTHING POLICITCAL HERE, DUDE. BUSH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS STORY. AND IT WAS HER WHO CALLED THE PRESS CONFERENCES.

Meanwhile bush is continuing to lie across the board, and even tho' the country-other than the cargo crew on this board-don't trust him or his cronies, he probably thinks he is doing great presidenting. Too bad it's such hard work.

The McKinney “slapping incident” has become 24-hour fodder for faux news and other right-wing bush groupies. NO- IT IS ABOUT EVERY NETWORK - YOUR ATTEMPT TO TELL A HALF TRUTH HERE IS JUST A LIE. Oh yeah, Mr Hammer Tom DeLay, on his way out in disgrace, called McKinney an “arrogant racist. On the very day deLay announced his resignation from the house,SO WHAT? IT WAS THE TRUTH. AGAIN, NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS THREAD OR THE STORY. JUST YOUR CRAP SPREAD OUT OVER YET ANOTHER THREAD.

I can see through you easier than a clean window.

[hcap]

Indulto,

A strong stand is the only thing that can be taken. Do you see any wobblies on the other side. In fact if the dems stood up and confronted thier accusers with strong words the country already favoring a democratic congress by a STRONG margin, would gain the respect of more americans. Politically how can they win if their viewed as weak in political debate?

I am not a politician. I don't have to worry about the righties skewed perceptions here on this board of my apparent "soft on terrorism" ant-war views. I say, and have said the same since back in 2002.

Currently there is no equivalence between our incompetant, misleading administration and the minority party.

Cynthia McKinney ??

Duke Cunningham
Tom Delay
Jack Abramoff
Selective leaks for political gain.

Guys like Tom don't pull any punches. In fact his latest is bitch.
He and JR and Ponyplayr and others advocate murder in the name of pre-emptive self defense. And joke about it. Gee what TYPE of nucular device should oouur leeaader use? Chuckle, chuckle. Fry the towel heads. The only good Muslim (commie) is a dead Muslim (commie).

There are exceptions. LS although sharing many of the same views as the others at least has intelligent and thoughtfull answers.


Outraged by a congresswomen slapping a cop with a cell phone?

P-U-L-E-A-S-E

[twindouble]

hcap;

Politics is and has been through out our history a down and dirty game. When both sides drag you into the realm of swill and stench only the ignorant will constantly swim in it . Our focus should be on what they do, not what they say while in office. Distraction is the tool of choice when anyone intends to do harm or pull off a slight of hand. Sure we can bitch now and then about what they say or argue but never lose sight of what's really in play. To me it's simple, divide and conquer. Those that fight amongst themselves are doomed to fail.

We are here on this forum because we have common interests and goals, I'm sure as Americans we could find a multitude of things we would agree on of greater importance. Be it liberal, conservative, ethical, moral or borders on survival.

T.D.

[JustRalph]

He and JR and Ponyplayr and others advocate murder in the name of pre-emptive self defense.

Perfect analogy. I do advocate murder in the name of pre-emptive self defense. You have me right on ! And I am not joking about it......... I mean it. So much "thoughtful discussion" is what allows the enemy to move WMD's and such. "Thoughtful discussion" allows the enemy time to plan. "thoughtful discussion" is a waste of time and can only hurt the cause. I say we shut the hell up and start kicking ass by invoking the greatest Air Forces in the world. Cruise missiles, B-52's and B-1's immediatly.......U.S. Navy assets. We could cripple any country we want. In a few days. I say we start with Iran.......tonight!

[Lefty]

h'cap, yes i'm outraged that a congresswoman hit a cop and even more outraged she pulled out the racecard to paint herself as the victim.

[Tom]

Perfect analogy. I do advocate murder in the name of pre-emptive self defense. You have me right on ! And I am not joking about it......... I mean it. So much "thoughtful discussion" is what allows the enemy to move WMD's and such. "Thoughtful discussion" allows the enemy time to plan. "thoughtful discussion" is a waste of time and can only hurt the cause. I say we shut the hell up and start kicking ass by invoking the greatest Air Forces in the world. Cruise missiles, B-52's and B-1's immediatly.......U.S. Navy assets. We could cripple any country we want. In a few days. I say we start with Iran.......tonight!

I'm not kidding either.

Where are dupes like hcap when the real tyrants of the world are at work killing, torturing (real torture, not the stuff I would pay cash money for!)
and ruining their countries? where was hcap's outrage over SH gassing his own people. Where was he when the taliban where hanging people in the football stadium? Wher eis he with the genocide in Sudan, Liberia?
Duke, Delay, p-u-l-e-a-s-e!!!!

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm not kidding either.

Where are dupes like hcap when the real tyrants of the world are at work killing, torturing (real torture, not the stuff I would pay cash money for!)
and ruining their countries? where was hcap's outrage over SH gassing his own people. Where was he when the taliban where hanging people in the football stadium? Wher eis he with the genocide in Sudan, Liberia?
Duke, Delay, p-u-l-e-a-s-e!!!!

Where was he? Probably in the same mentality as many (including the U.S.A.) who thought it wasn't "their problem" while Hitler ran roughshod over Eastern Europe....

[Tom]

Appeasement is another word for surrender. Hisroty proves this.
Hcap, I'll let you in a little secret - the Iranian attacks is not going to be about thier limited nuclear program. Get the picture?

[Indulto]

Where was he? Probably in the same mentality as many (including the U.S.A.) who thought it wasn't "their problem" while Hitler ran roughshod over Eastern Europe....PA,
I would appreciate your directing me to a specific post where hcap's text suggested that he would have been someone who 'thought it wasn't "their problem" while Hitler ran roughshod over Eastern Europe...' or could reasonably be interpreted as having that "mentality."

What "mentality" was in play when a boatload of Jewish refugees was turned away by our government and sent back to certain death in Nazi Germany?

As your vigilance in clarifying the situation when your own statements appear to have been misinterpreted is well-documented, I thought you might relish an opportunity to adjust the mustard on hot dogs offered to fans who thought they might have observed "piling on" by the referee. ;)

[Tom]

I think it was in thel ast two or three days that he posted containment worked. I'll see if I can find it, but reading too many hcap posts in row can be upsetting! :)


http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=266864&highlight=containment#post266864


Post #120 in the 223 mph Iran thread

[hcap]

Tom and Pa,

Re-read my post. Where do I say anything about Nazi Germany.

I talk about Containment for
1-North Korea
2-Soviet Union

Not the Nazis. During the build up to WWII Nazi Germanys' military spending was greater than ours.

Besides

1-Iraq was a weakened 3rd world country.
2-Iran- see below

http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/ArmsTrade/Spending.asp#InContextUSMilitarySpendingVersusRest oftheWorld

In Context: U.S. Military Spending Versus Rest of the World

Consider the following:

The above sources compare the given fiscal year budget request with the latest figures for other countries, which are sometimes two years old. Still using those statistics for other countries, however, a comparison can be made here of the US Fiscal Year 2005 spending against other equivalent data:

* The US military spending was almost two-fifths of the total.
* The US military spending was almost 7 times larger than the Chinese budget, the second largest spender.
* The US military budget was almost 29 times as large as the combined spending of the six “rogue” states (Cuba, Iran, Libya, North Korea, Sudan and Syria) who spent $14.65 billion.
.


Dollars (billions) % of world total Rank

United States 420.7 43% 1

Iran 4.9 1% 27

We send almost 100x more than Iran on the military.
Iran?
Nazis? No comparison. Your confusing a rope for a snake.

Get it together guys.

[Lefty]

h'cap, re: U.S. Military budget 29 times as large as....

HEY, that's a good thing.

[Tom]

Hcap - Post 80 - I quoted your comment. You are talking about containment being a good thing- Europe tried that on the nazis and it was a bad thing.
Why would it work today?

[Indulto]

Hcap - Post 80 - I quoted your comment. You are talking about containment being a good thing- Europe tried that on the nazis and it was a bad thing.
Why would it work today?Tom,
As I'm sure lsbets would agree, the failed policy toward the Nazi's was "Appeasement," not "Containment." At that time, no one else was ready for War except Germany. Interestingly, today We are the only ones ready for war (and how ready should we consider ourselves from a resource standpoint?). It wasn't the Soviet Union we were trying to "contain," it was Communism. We are not trying to "contain," Iran, but rather nuclear and other WMDs. Look how well the Bush Administration has "contained" terrorism in Iraq.

Here's something else to consider from the Iranian perspective. They've already been "treated" to the effects of WMDs. SH gassed them with U.S.-supplied weapons. While the "rabid dogs" didn't kill any hostages taken prior to that during the Carter Administration, one might understand why they would be more inclined to do so now in the face of a pre-emptive military threat from those who have historically shown disdain for their lives.

Is it "terrorism" when the right invokes the images of Hitler and Mushroom Clouds and fanatical Muslims to put fear in American hearts? What did they call it in the '30s when right-wing Germans blamed Jews for their economic woes and loss of "honor" in WW I? (Still waiting for your detailed response, Snag)

If the Nazis had been religious, they would have burned Jews at the stake instead of in the ovens. Today the right in this country wants to burn all the Muslims in Iran with nuclear blasts. Maybe we should listen to Jerry Wishing-you-would-fall-in-the-well, the greatest American fear-monger since Joe McCarthy, who guarantees us that all non-Christians will burn in Hell. End of problem.

[twindouble]

Tom,
As I'm sure lsbets would agree, the failed policy toward the Nazi's was "Appeasement," not "Containment." At that time, no one else was ready for War except Germany. Interestingly, today We are the only ones ready for war (and how ready should we consider ourselves from a resource standpoint?). It wasn't the Soviet Union we were trying to "contain," it was Communism. We are not trying to "contain," Iran, but rather nuclear and other WMDs. Look how well the Bush Administration has "contained" terrorism in Iraq.

Indulto; Actually it was containment, the treaty restricted every aspect of the German industrial military complex and numbers of divisions they could have, far greater than any restrictions we are attempting to impose on Iran. Germany like Iran, ignored those restrictions. Result WW2.


T.D.

[lsbets]

Indulto -

Here's the difference between containment and appeasement:

hindsight.

When it works (USSR) we call it containment. When it fails (Nazi Germany) we call it appeasement. The only difference is the outcome.

[Dave Schwartz]

[QUOTE]If the Nazis had been religious, they would have burned Jews at the stake instead of in the ovens. Today the right in this country wants to burn all the Muslims in Iran with nuclear blasts.QUOTE]

I don't believe this to be a true statement.

I believe that most Americans simply want the problem solved.

Considering the limited alternatives some (not me) might see that as a viable alternative.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[Indulto]

[QUOTE]If the Nazis had been religious, they would have burned Jews at the stake instead of in the ovens. Today the right in this country wants to burn all the Muslims in Iran with nuclear blasts.QUOTE]

I don't believe this to be a true statement.

I believe that most Americans simply want the problem solved.

Considering the limited alternatives some (not me) might see that as a viable alternative.


Regards,
Dave SchwartzDS,
It was never intended as a statement of fact, but rather as an ironic juxtaposition of images. I guess I must have struck a nerve as, apparently, that irony was lost on some here. I still say we need a tongue-in-cheek icon.

[Indulto]

Here's the difference between containment and appeasement:

hindsight.

When it works (USSR) we call it containment. When it fails (Nazi Germany) we call it appeasement. The only difference is the outcome.Very good, but where are all the bodies of those tortured and executed by post-Shah Iranians buried?

[Tom]

Let you know when we get there.

[PaceAdvantage]

I would appreciate your directing me to a specific post where hcap's text suggested that he would have been someone who 'thought it wasn't "their problem" while Hitler ran roughshod over Eastern Europe...' or could reasonably be interpreted as having that "mentality."

Shouldn't this be directed at Tom?

And for some reason, your reply to me sounded awfully familiar....I can't quite place it though....

[Indulto]

Shouldn't this be directed at Tom?

And for some reason, your reply to me sounded awfully familiar....I can't quite place it though....PA,
See how useful a TIC icon would be? ;)

[Lefty]

[QUOTE=Dave Schwartz]DS,
It was never intended as a statement of fact, but rather as an ironic juxtaposition of images. I guess I must have struck a nerve as, apparently, that irony was lost on some here. I still say we need a tongue-in-cheek icon.

I never spotted any irony, just a flatout lie advanced by liberals.

[Indulto]

I never spotted any irony, just a flatout lie advanced by liberals.Yet another one-line, unspecific post devoid, as usual, of either insight or original content.

[Lefty]

indul, let me spell it out for you, son.
You said, "Today the right In this country wants to burn all Muslims with nuclear blasts."

That's a flatout lie fabricated by the left and repeated by their mindless minions.
Specific enough?

[Indulto]

indul, let me spell it out for you, son.

You said, "Today the right In this country wants to burn all Muslims with nuclear blasts."

That's a flatout lie fabricated by the left and repeated by their mindless minions.

Specific enough?Lefty,
Surprisingly, that was a definite improvement, but you need to go even further. Can you "spell out" what you believe is the generally accepted position held by the majority of the political right in this country with respect to the potential use of nuclear weapons against Muslims in Iran in sufficient detail to distance yourself from the right's "mindless minions?"

As you were finally more specific, I can see that including the word "all" was an unfortunate and unintended exaggeration in my attempt to employ absurdity to dramatize the ironically common, but horribly significant role of religious intolerance in previous and potential crimes against humanity

[Lefty]

What happens is up to Iran. But I don't believe for a minute we will nuke them.
If you were trying to be absurd you made it but you were not original because this nuke the Iranians is being reported by the left as a fact of GW's intentions. If you were trying to be ironic, you failed.
Also, I see you have adopted lbj's tatic of mimicking my words. A childish endeavor.

[Indulto]

... I see you have adopted lbj's tatic of mimicking my words. A childish endeavor.I'm trying to communicate with you using your own terminolgy to avoid confusion. If it's a tactic you don't like, then stop overgeneralizing and trying to diminish opponents with dismissive labels. If you want to receive respect, son, you have to give it as well as earn it.

[Lefty]

I don't give a rat's ass if you respect me or not, Indul, just pointing out your childlike behavior. Sorry if liberal is offensive to you, but you give that appearance. You can call me a conservative, if you like, doesn't bother me. I'm proud of it.

[ljb]

What happens is up to Iran. But I don't believe for a minute we will nuke them.
If you were trying to be absurd you made it but you were not original because this nuke the Iranians is being reported by the left as a fact of GW's intentions. If you were trying to be ironic, you failed.
Also, I see you have adopted lbj's tatic of mimicking my words. A childish endeavor.
Lefty,
Why did you bring me into this discussion? If I mimick your words it is just to show you how stupid you sound. Your reply to this will probably get you another "you don't get it stamp". Keep collecting them, after you get your weed whacker perhaps you will have enough left for a brain implant. :lol: :lol:
Notice I didn't say transplant? :lol: :lol:

[Indulto]

I don't give a rat's ass if you respect me or not, Indul, just pointing out your childlike behavior. Sorry if liberal is offensive to you, but you give that appearance. You can call me a conservative, if you like, doesn't bother me. I'm proud of it.To call you a conservative, Lefty, would be to flatter you. True conservatives are not closed-minded. It’s more realistic to define you by what you are not, so if you insist on being labeled, the most accurate one I can come up with is “knee-jerk anti-liberal.” It remains to be seen whether “just plain jerk” is more appropriate, but your arrogant dismissal of other points of view, and reluctance or inability to engage in honest debate, invites such characterization.

If it gets you through the day to call me a liberal, it doesn’t offend me, it just isn’t as accurate as you would like to think. For me it isn’t a matter of pride because I try to form opinions on issues independently. More often than not, I agree with positions taken by people who consider themselves liberal Democrats, especially when interpreting the constitution. I disagree with them on certain fiscal matters, law enforcement, the death penalty, immigration, and entitlement programs. I support the exclusive public/legal use of the English language. There are still issues that I can’t take a position for or against. If by lsbets’ reckoning that makes me “left-leaning,” I can live with it, but IMO “Moderate Independent” would wear better.

I’m not certain what you consider “childlike” behavior, but when it comes to exhibiting “childish” behavior, you have proven to be without equal here.

[Tom]

Lefty,
Why did you bring me into this discussion? If I mimick your words it is just to show you how stupid you sound. Your reply to this will probably get you another "you don't get it stamp". Keep collecting them, after you get your weed whacker perhaps you will have enough left for a brain implant. :lol: :lol:
Notice I didn't say transplant? :lol: :lol:


A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

[Lefty]

lbj, indul, you are both childlike. Then you turn around and call me childlike. Very adult.
lbj, you know nothing you haven't read on a lib blog somewhere and to say i don't get it or to tell me i need a brain implant is just yourlibertal way to say you are out of ammo.

indulto, in your agonizing attempts to sound intellectual you just come across as pompous. I called you on it when you repeated the liberal line about nuking Iran and then you try to make the discussion about me. Another old lib trick. Sorry boys, back of the class, please!

[Lefty]

Indul, I haven't dismissed other points of view i've just said I think, for the most part, the liberal view is wrong. But if you think quoting liberal lies about what Bush is planning for Iran, is a point of view, then it is not me that's closeminded. If you want to post a view for debate, that's one thing, but if you want to quote liberal lies as gospel and then later say you were being ironic, i'll call you on it everytime. But your idea of debate seems to be, like most libs, to attack, demean and namecall. Hmmmmmmm....

[Lefty]

lbj, a Q, if you please. You seemed distressed I mentioned your name and when I did, you showed up, just like a Superman Comic book character, a certain pesky troublemaking elf.
The q is: Have you ever mentioned my name, in much, the same way I mentioned yours, to make a point?

[Tom]

The last time Ljb debated was when he quit fishing early. :eek:

[toetoe]

Lefty,

If you're referring to Mr. Mxyzptlk, maybe you can make ljb disappear again by making him say, "bjl."

[Indulto]

Originally posted by Lefty(1):
lbj, indul, you are both childlike. Then you turn around and call me childlike. Very adult.
lbj, you know nothing you haven't read on a lib blog somewhere and to say i don't get it or to tell me i need a brain implant is just yourlibertal way to say you are out of ammo.

indulto,in your agonizing attempts to sound intellectual you just come across as pompous. I called you on it when you repeated the liberal line about nuking Iran and then you try to make the discussion about me. Another old lib trick. Sorry boys, back of the class, please!I appreciate alliteration wherever it appears, but not confusing senility with maturity.
Originally posted by Lefty(2):
Indul, I haven't dismissed other points of view i've just said I think, for the most part, the liberal view is wrong. But if you think quoting liberal lies about what Bush is planning for Iran, is a point of view, then it is not me that's closeminded. If you want to post a view for debate, that's one thing, but if you want to quote liberal lies as gospel and then later say you were being ironic, i'll call you on it everytime. But your idea of debate seems to be, like most libs, to attack, demean and namecall. Hmmmmmmm....Congratulations, Lefty, you’re beginning to sound almost as reasonable and intelligent as you do in racing-related threads. Wasn’t that your personal high for number of sentences in successive off-topic posts? I’m still going to continue to “call YOU on it every time” I encounter you misrepresenting or trivializing what I consider to be valid liberal positions or else dismissing/demeaning liberals in general.

Recycling a little lsbets logic, “pompous” is selective, while “arrogance” is non-specific, but the result is the same. It’s comforting to know that you can be irritated as easily as you irritate.

You should really consider switching sides as you’ve perfected the “attack, demean and namecall” debating technique.

[Tom]

Lefty,

If you're referring to Mr. Mxyzptlk, maybe you can make ljb disappear again by making him say, "bjl."

:lol::lol:

Maybe that explains him ......RED kryptonite!

[ljb]

lbj, a Q, if you please. You seemed distressed I mentioned your name and when I did, you showed up, just like a Superman Comic book character, a certain pesky troublemaking elf.
The q is: Have you ever mentioned my name, in much, the same way I mentioned yours, to make a point?
yes you are correct. I have used your name in the past to make a point.

[ljb]

The last time Ljb debated was when he quit fishing early. :eek:
Oh a pun, how clever Tom,
However, it is impossible to carry on a serious debate on this board in any section (I see the same kind of bs on the other side) so we all just post whatever comes to mind.

[ljb]

lbj, you know nothing you haven't read on a lib blog somewhere and to say i don't get it or to tell me i need a brain implant is just yourlibertal way to say you are out of ammo.


Lefty,
I have deleted the section in your note addressed to Indul. I dare say my information comes from a much more rounded source then yours. More then once I have suggested you read this weeks Time magazine to get some more insight into something. The suggestion for the brain inplant was in response to your calling me stupid. I can discuss issues at an adult level but respond as a child when talked to like a child. Originally I did not get into this thread because I felt it was blown out of proportion. We have a racist congress woman smacking a cop and you would think she lied us into war in Iraq or outed a cia operative or took buco bucks from a lobbyist the way some on here reacted. The congress woman has apoligized for her indescretions, more then we can say for those who have put much worse atrocities on us.

[ljb]

Lefty,

If you're referring to Mr. Mxyzptlk, maybe you can make ljb disappear again by making him say, "bjl."
toetoe,
Does my presence here threaten you ? If so, too bad. They have tried to ban me, vote me off a few times before you were even here. Once they got together at the toga party and tried to redball me, that also was a failure on their part. I can put up with any of their bs.

[lsbets]

You're sounding a little paranoid ljb. I think if PA really wanted you gone, you'd be gone. Since he runs the show, he's sort of the Jack Bauer of the board when it comes to making people disappear.

[JustRalph]

You're sounding a little paranoid ljb. I think if PA really wanted you gone, you'd be gone. Since he runs the show, he's sort of the Jack Bauer of the board when it comes to making people disappear.

The following post takes place between 5:50p and 5:52p

LJB, you were Blackballed or Red balled? I am not sure which is worse......but I have never heard of being "redballed" can you fill me in?

blackball
One entry found for blackball.

Main Entry: 1black·ball
Pronunciation: 'blak-"bol
Function: transitive verb
1 : to vote against; especially : to exclude from membership by casting a negative vote
2 a : to exclude socially : OSTRACIZE b : BOYCOTT

[lsbets]

JR - did you find a definition for red balled?

[JustRalph]

JR - did you find a definition for red balled?


nope..........I am starting to lean toward some kind of Rash...........

[lsbets]

nope..........I am starting to lean toward some kind of Rash...........

Now that would have been a very Rovian tactic on PA's part to give ljnb some kind of rash called red ball. Evil, pure evil.

[Indulto]

JR - did you find a definition for red balled?lsbets,
Does Red Ball Express ring any Bells?

[lsbets]

lsbets,
Does Red Ball Express ring any Bells?

The company I commanded in Iraq fell under the 106th Transportation Battalion, which fell under the 101st Airborne Division, and lets me proudly wear the Screaming Eagle as my combat patch. Anyway, during WWII, the 106th Trans was the 106th Quartermaster (Mobile) and played a vital role in the redball express.

[ljb]

You're sounding a little paranoid ljb. I think if PA really wanted you gone, you'd be gone. Since he runs the show, he's sort of the Jack Bauer of the board when it comes to making people disappear.
Actually I was just responding to toetoes request at making me disappear. He hasn't been around long enough to recall the battles of the past.

[ljb]

The following post takes place between 5:50p and 5:52p

LJB, you were Blackballed or Red balled? I am not sure which is worse......but I have never heard of being "redballed" can you fill me in?

blackball
One entry found for blackball.

Main Entry: 1black·ball
Pronunciation: 'blak-"bol
Function: transitive verb
1 : to vote against; especially : to exclude from membership by casting a negative vote
2 a : to exclude socially : OSTRACIZE b : BOYCOTT
Nice to see you are taking an interest here JR. I was referring to the time when we had the tiny marks on the bottom of our names. if I recall correctly red was negative and blue or green was positive. This experiement proved futile and was dropped after a couple of weeks. Hope this clears things for you. (I guess sometimes I have to be more specific)

[ljb]

Now that would have been a very Rovian tactic on PA's part to give ljnb some kind of rash called red ball. Evil, pure evil.
You folks seem to be in jovial spirits tonight. Perhaps I should post some news links (facts). I know they tend to keep you on your toes.

[hcap]

It goes like this. Rove gave it to george. George gave it to dick. Dick gave it to scooter.

Fitz is gonna give it to all of 'em. :jump:

[Lefty]

indulto, lbj, you guys are the namecallers. I might have called you guys pompous and uninformed but I haven't demeaned you as you have me. I haven't said either of you need a brain implant or called you senile. But then again, I realize I am the adult here and all anyone need do is read your posts and how you use the parroting technique of children. There ya go.
And lbj, i wouldn't line my birdcage with Time magazine.

[Lefty]

Toe, thanks for the spelling. I realize i can make lbj disappear by making him say his name backwards, but darn it, he's just too easy a target.

[ljb]

indulto, lbj, you guys are the namecallers. I might have called you guys pompous and uninformed but I haven't demeaned you as you have me. I haven't said either of you need a brain implant or called you senile. But then again, I realize I am the adult here and all anyone need do is read your posts and how you use the parroting technique of children. There ya go.
And lbj, i wouldn't line my birdcage with Time magazine.
Lefty,
Your response to a note I posted said "that was stupid". name calling ?
I don't want you to line your birdcage with Time magazine. That's not what it is for, it is for reading.

[Lefty]

lbj, and it was stupid namecalling but I didn't call YOU stupid or Indul stupid. You boys gotta get you some of that there nuance.
Time is for reading? Oh, yeah, liberal viewpoints. No thanks. I just love fair and balanced where I am treated to liberal and conservative discussion.

[lsbets]

Actually I was just responding to toetoes request at making me disappear. He hasn't been around long enough to recall the battles of the past.

Oh, like the time you hoped that some of my soldiers died - yeah, he might have missed that one. Wanna fill him in?

[lsbets]

Actually ljb - I'll take back my last statement, that was too much of an extrapolation off of your now infamous off hand joke about the possibility of my company suffering casualties.

Here is what I think toetoe meant (and if I am wrong toe, my apologies):

During your brief absence, even taking into account the thread where Light basically told me I was going to hell because I served in Iraq (incidentally none of the I'm against the war but support the troops guys told Light to shut the f up, which kind of confirms what I've though all along when people say that,a nd one even claimed he was just bring up "conscience"), but even taking that thread into account - while you were gone, people were able to disagree and discuss. Sure, sometimes there was thread drift and mild insults, but suddenly, once you returned, Off Topic has again turned into a cantankerous place where intelligent discussion is not welcome. While you like to blame all of us, circumstances kind of show that it is your cancerous personality that brings the dark cloud over these threads.

That's what I think toe meant, and again, if I am wrong toetoe, feel free to correct me.

[Tom]

It was rather, intelligent around here during his absence, wasn't it.

[JustRalph]

Fitz is gonna give it to all of 'em. :jump:

you sure are putting a bunch of hope and faith into a guy who can't seem to fill out the paperwork right..............

[hcap]

Re: Fitz

http://images.washtimes.com/photos/full/20060411-054505-8103.jpg

See this guy? He was booed big time. Throws like a girl. Bounced the ball a few times. George calls him either "BIG TIME" or daddy.
Obviously the key here is the sign behind d**khead. Look carefully.

BULLSHIT

Now Fitz has proof :jump: :jump: :jump:

[hcap]

LS,

Nothing wrong with bringing up conscience.
Helps put terms like "surgical strike" and "collateral damage" in their proper perspective.

Light did that. If you find guys like Tom and JR justified in calling for wholesale murder and destruction acceptable, and did not criticize them, why should anyone criticize Light? I won't.

I think you are to quick to condemn both Light and ljb. Considering the indescriminate calls for reckless and criminal tactics on innocent civilians by your group. Outrage cuts both ways.

[Lefty]

Fitz is a political hack that uses his office to "get" his enemies, be they repub or dem. He's the one should be prosecuted.

[JustRalph]

Re: Fitz

http://images.washtimes.com/photos/full/20060411-054505-8103.jpg

See this guy? He was booed big time. Throws like a girl. Bounced the ball a few times. George calls him either "BIG TIME" or daddy.
Obviously the key here is the sign behind d**khead. Look carefully.

BULLSHIT

Now Fitz has proof :jump: :jump: :jump:

nice, the guy has had five heart attacks and is 65 years old. Take this crap back to the Democratic Underground where it belongs...........you reveal yourself more often lately. No Class.

[Tom]

I is amazing what the libs think are issues. Hcap just continues to brandish his childish self as if it were something to be proud of.
Between the educational system and the health care system, thus guy really got shortchanged.

46 - when is your word of the day doing to be "mature?"

[Lefty]

hcap, in the usual mean spirit of libs you attack the man cause he is sick and not in tiptop physical condition. What was Kerry's excuse at that redsox game back during the election?His throw was also pitiful and he is a lot younger. But who cares about that? What do these men stand for? I'll take Cheney over Kerry any ol time. Fitz will not be finding anything to convict Cheney on. It's shameful that prosecutors now using their offices to get rid of or smear political enemies or make names for themselves.

[hcap]

Pu-lease. Crying over Darth cheney? I can sort of understand a misguided sympathy for bush. Respect fo the office and such. Maybe even-he's in over his head, give him a break etc., etc. But Dick?

I don't read the Democratic Underground. Rarely visit. The sign in the background being a close match for bullshit is my observation, and quite appropo. And any snide remarks I have made mostly originate with yours truly.

Heavens to betsy, how dare yours truly criticize Mister Cheney!!

Some on this board are thin skinned hypocrites. Snide is frequently the operative word around here-and usually is directed at whole peoples and populations. Get over it guys. Your middle names are spelled S_N_I_D_E.

Anyhoo, dick was booed not because he throws like a girl (snide 1), but in fact got loud boos for simply walking on to the field. The fact that he lacks ability to toss to home (snide 2), is besides the point.

The major point that he is he is gonna be fried by Fitz.

Dick?? Sympathy for the devil.

"So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse
Or I’ll lay your soul to waste, um yeah
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, um yeah"

Sometimes Jagger and friends are right on

[Indulto]

Fitz is a political hack that uses his office to "get" his enemies, be they repub or dem. He's the one should be prosecuted.Lefty,
You've got Starrs in your eyes.

[Indulto]

What was Kerry's excuse at that redsox game back during the election?His throw was also pitiful and he is a lot younger. But who cares about that?

. . . It's shameful that prosecutors now using their offices to get rid of or smear political enemies or make names for themselves.:rolleyes:

[Tom]

Lefty, I saw that pitch - Kerry should have gotten another purple ouchie for it! :lol:

[Indulto]

Lefty, I saw that pitch - Kerry should have gotten another purple ouchie for it! :lol:Dishonor the man, not the medal. Does that sound right, Lefty?

[Lefty]

Tom didn't dishonor the medeal and the man has dishonered himself. Funny, you guys reserve the right to call the Pres every name in the book, but you get all riled up over the flipflopper?

[ljb]

hcap, in the usual mean spirit of libs you attack the man cause he is sick and not in tiptop physical condition. What was Kerry's excuse at that redsox game back during the election?His throw was also pitiful and he is a lot younger. But who cares about that? What do these men stand for? I'll take Cheney over Kerry any ol time. Fitz will not be finding anything to convict Cheney on. It's shameful that prosecutors now using their offices to get rid of or smear political enemies or make names for themselves.
Nice job Lefty, Follow the lead as directed by your hero the oxycontin kid.

[Indulto]

Tom didn't dishonor the medeal and the man has dishonered himself. Funny, you guys reserve the right to call the Pres every name in the book, but you get all riled up over the flipflopper?Lefty,
I reserve the right to lampoon Billy Cling-on, George UU, All Gored, Darth Cheney, and Joint Carried as well as you and Tom (the only one of the aforementioned I actually respect), but you will never see me demeaning the circumstances warranting a medal.

Do you think Jay Leno has an exclusive right to make fun of White House tenants without being accused of dishonoring the office of the President. The last two inhabitants of the White dishonored themselves and the office, not me.

[46zilzal]

nice, the guy has had five heart attacks and is 65 years old.
anger creates athrerosclerolsis Mockenberg's medail calcific sclerolsis

[Ponyplayr]

Tom didn't dishonor the medeal and the man has dishonered himself. Funny, you guys reserve the right to call the Pres every name in the book, but you get all riled up over the flipflopper?

Kerry dishonored the Medals when he threw them over the fence.

[46zilzal]

so what

[Tom]

Kerry dishonored the real medal. I renamed it to dishonor the shell of a man that accepted medals and then called our soldiers murderers. HE dishonored the medals with his foul muoth full of lies, the lousy gigilo.

[Tom]

so what

Reliving 3rd grade are we? :lol:

[46zilzal]

ah yes the ORGAMSIC military expereince, ONE that folks cannot live without ooooouuuuh

[Tom]

Watch your back, ls...this guy has orgasms thinkng about soldiers! :kiss:

[46zilzal]

ah yes the ORGAMSIC military expereince, ONE that folks cannot live without ooooouuuuh

ah yes giving up your individuality to idiots

[lsbets]

Watch your back, ls...this guy has orgasms thinkng about soldiers! :kiss:

Tom, remember it goes back to his younger days when he couldn't get a date because the girls all liked the soldiers and were not impressed with his 6'3" physique. Didn't you mention an inferiority complex in another thread?

[Lefty]

so what

Only a patriot would know.

[Indulto]

Kerry dishonored the Medals when he threw them over the fence.PP,
I believe Kerry proved he was no longer a man of principle when he used Cheney's daughter's sexual orientation for political gain. It was at that point, I believe, he lost the election because he proved he really was no better than Bush as a person. I voted for him, but only as the lesser of two evils. I believe he was a man of principle when he threw the medals, but that act was distorted when he tried to acquire political support outside of MA.

Other than the FL election fiasco in a state run by his brother, I wasn't concerned with Bush's initial victory because I didn't think he would be any worse than Gore. I concluded Gore was without principle when he selected Lieberman in an obvious attempt to offset his association with Clinton. I had voted for Bill Bradley in the CA Democratic primary finally opened to independent voters. If Gore had shown the relentlessness against Bush that he had against Bradley, FL would have made no difference.

Like most Americans, I had no problem with military action in Afghanistan or with the Bush administration, generally. The tax cut on wealthy incomes didn't make sense to me, but there WAS a surplus and I figured better to return it than to waste it. Extending the crosshairs to Iraq set off my alarm bells and they haven't stopped ringing since. Bush and Cheney just keep coming up with more and more justification for getting pink slips, assuming it's still possible to have a fair election any more.

[Tom]

ah yes giving up your individuality to idiots

You are talking to yourself! :lol:

[JustRalph]

Lefty, You've got Starrs in your eyes.

Lefty is right.

Fitz won't touch Cheney........

[twindouble]

PP,

Like most Americans, I had no problem with military action in Afghanistan or with the Bush administration, generally. The tax cut on wealthy incomes didn't make sense to me, but there WAS a surplus and I figured better to return it than to waste it. Extending the crosshairs to Iraq set off my alarm bells and they haven't stopped ringing since. Bush and Cheney just keep coming up with more and more justification for getting pink slips, assuming it's still possible to have a fair election any more.

I didn't care for Bush, Gore, and most of all Kerry. As soon as Powell and Cheney showed up that settled it for me. Your right, the FL election threw me for a loop as well but when all was counted after the fact Bush won. I can hang my hat on that but whole process had stunk to high heaven, ESP the inability to count a freaking vote, not just in FL in many other states. Think about it, I'm just one person, through out the year I make thousands of transactions, gambling, personal and business and not one mistake showed up. The most important thing, our vote can't be counted right.

When it comes to Iraq, I was really pissed when we didn't finish the job in the first gulf war, Bush Sr and Powell didn't have the balls to do it in spite of the fact we had support here and through out the world at the time. It wasn't like we didn't know he was a butcher from hell including his sons.

Regardless of the poor intelligence on WMD's it was the right thing to do for many reasons and I think our overall planing for the war on terror had to include Iraq otherwise would be fighting a huge insurgence in Afghanistan supported by Saddam, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan at a greater degree, including the Palestinians.

What is a known fact today, every aspect of our intelligence capabilities and law enforcement including the Pentagon was broken beyond belief and that's what Bush inherited so why wouldn't he get piss poor Intelligence. Guess what, they still don't have it right and Congress on up to the White house don't give a dam as long as they get elected. Billions of dollars spent, wasted and we still don't have secure borders, ports or enforceable immigration laws.
To me, everyone of the bastards should be impeached!


T.D.

[Tom]

T.D. -
Excellent points.
The most treasured of our rights is the right ot vote for who we wnat to lead us. The cavalier attitude most many states take with the process is digusting.
The entire thing should have been fixed in under a year.
In the real world, whem a business is audited for conformance to standards (ISO , QS, ANSI....) they need to prove compliance with documentation. Failure to comply requires corrective action, within 30-90 days, depending on the severity.
What do you think is more severe, not rotating your stock in the warehouse or having a ballot that does not function???

Why is there no federal standard for voting? Why are there no audits?

Both parties need to understand that getting elected is not like hitting the lottery - it is a responsibility. Most view public office as the money tree - for many it is.
Poster boy for that is Ray Nagin - the most useless elected officail in the country! All mouhtm no action.

What gets me, is that the so-called free press continually fail in their responsibility to uncover and expose this stuff.
Why wasn't the issue of the Florida ballots follwed up, with requests for specific progress asked at every press conference instead of the usual drivel we hear the alleged reprters asking?

Sad when the governemtn cannot handle even the simplest of tasks.

The startling thing about Katrina was not how many died, but how many lived, considering the three stooges, er, ah, levels of government in charge there.

BTW......NO is hiring Brownie as a consultant! :lol:

[46zilzal]

Tom, remember it goes back to his younger days when he couldn't get a date because the girls all liked the soldiers and were not impressed with his 6'3" physique. Didn't you mention an inferiority complex in another thread?
complete b.s.: women in my town knew what turds the jarheads in town were like: complete idiots. never could get out of fight mode and beat the crap out of many of them

[lsbets]

complete b.s.: women in my town knew what turds the jarheads in town were like: complete idiots. never could get out of fight mode and beat the crap out of many of them

That's not the story you first sang about them beating you up and being mean to you.

Its okay Zilly, your insecurity is understandable.

[Lefty]

TD, it's not that Bush and Powell didn't have the balls to finish 1st Gulf war, that was the agreement they made with the U.N. to get the coalition together.

[46zilzal]

That's not the story you first sang about them beating you up and being mean to you.

Its okay Zilly, your insecurity is understandable.
QUOTE that to me as it (your idea) is a total fabrication

[twindouble]

TD, it's not that Bush and Powell didn't have the balls to finish 1st Gulf war, that was the agreement they made with the U.N. to get the coalition together.

Powell was for containment of Saddam at that time, like I said if he had his way Saddam would still be in Kuiat. We didn't need the UN's approval to finish the Gulf war completely, Bush Sr backed off when others were all for it. The UN is and has been a body with out any direction, just corruption and anti America. If you can't see that, what can I say.

T.D.

[Lefty]

Powell was for containment of Saddam at that time, like I said if he had his way Saddam would still be in Kuiat. We didn't need the UN's approval to finish the Gulf war completely, Bush Sr backed off when others were all for it. The UN is and has been a body with out any direction, just corruption and anti America. If you can't see that, what can I say.

T.D.

You're right about Powell and you're right about UN. Nevertheless, the DEAL was, to get together the coalition(the one left keeps harping about now)not to go after Saddam. G.H. honered that provision.

[JustRalph]

Wow! The hits just keep coming! It's like Friggin Bandstand!!! :D

[betchatoo]

Powell was for containment of Saddam at that time, like I said if he had his way Saddam would still be in Kuiat. We didn't need the UN's approval to finish the Gulf war completely, Bush Sr backed off when others were all for it. The UN is and has been a body with out any direction, just corruption and anti America. If you can't see that, what can I say.

T.D.
Bush I said at the time that the reason he didn't finish Iraq was that going in was going to create a messy situation and he didn't think it was worth the time, money and lives it would cost. I'm sorry his son didn't think of that.

[ljb]

Well seems Libby is starting to spill his guts.
http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/0414nj3.htm

[twindouble]

Well seems Libby is starting to spill his guts.
http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/0414nj3.htm

Wefare, food stamps, government housing plus (subsidies,section 8) , medical assistance, social intervention. Right of the top of the head, want me to think about it some more.

Everyone of the above programs were and some are abused to no end. You do the math for every state.

[ljb]

Wefare, food stamps, government housing plus (subsidies,section 8) , medical assistance, social intervention. Right of the top of the head, want me to think about it some more.

Everyone of the above programs were and some are abused to no end. You do the math for every state.
What does this mean ?

[twindouble]

What does this mean ?

That post was meant for another thread, where Tom was saying he could have balanced the budget plus show a surpluss with liberal programs. I think you said prove it. I cut it to post later then hit the wrong thread.

Originally Posted by Tom
85 billion?
Wow!
Let's see, what percentage is that of the three trillioin thrown at pverty by the desm in thier FAILED war on pverty?

Factor out the crap in the budgetfrom the libs failed programs and we probably shoed a profit!

Quote; I need some clarification here Tom. When did our government spend three trillion on a war of poverty ? Can you provide any documentation of this statement ? And can you be more specific on "the libs failed programs"?

[Tom]

That post was meant for another thread, where Tom was saying he could have balanced the budget plus show a surpluss with liberal programs. I think you said prove it. I cut it to post later then hit the wrong thread.

Originally Posted by Tom
85 billion?
Wow!
Let's see, what percentage is that of the three trillioin thrown at pverty by the desm in thier FAILED war on pverty?

Factor out the crap in the budgetfrom the libs failed programs and we probably shoed a profit!

Quote; I need some clarification here Tom. When did our government spend three trillion on a war of poverty ? Can you provide any documentation of this statement ? And can you be more specific on "the libs failed programs"?

Lefty corrected me - it closer to 5 trillion socne LBJ was in office.
You've never heard of the war on poverty?
It was a dem program, and since there is still poverty, we lost the war.
The libs have countless failed entitlement program - they never work out and just keep adding to the national debt. They forget that when they talk about the current deficit.

[hcap]

ljb,

We have a preznit that lied us into war. Lied and americans died. The wazzoos on this board are stuck in kneejerk mode. Almost everything WE said before the war has played out like a bad dream. If they don' get it now, when will they ever learn? Pathetic.

5 trillion on the war on poverty?
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. :bang: :bang:

Too bad LBJ didn't parachute onto an aircraft carrier 5 miles off shore, sing the star spangled banner on the way down, and unfurl a "mission accomplished" banner.

[Tom]

So you don't think we have spend 3-5 trillion on welfare cost since the 60's?
Yuo've never heard of the war on poverty?
Knee jerk? YOU are the one jumping in with every single anti-conservative link you can find, whining daily about the way things are, trying to convinve everyone that Bush has no support.....yet you never win an election?
How do you expalin that, oh lost one? :lol:

I am going to break my vow of no more free personality anayises - you get the last one.

In a word........frustrated!

[Lefty]

h'cap, been proven many times the Prez mighta got faulty intel and if he lied all the top ranked Dems lied too. Getting tired of your lie and omissions. Get some new stuff.

[JustRalph]

I wish LBJ had jumped out of a plane...........

[betchatoo]

So you don't think we have spend 3-5 trillion on welfare cost since the 60's?
!
Actually, Tom, I don't think we've spent anywhere close to a trillion. Over 40 years that would average out to 25 billion a year. I don't even think Rush could make up numbers that would have us averaging that since the mid-60s

[betchatoo]

I stand corrected

Are Anti-Poverty Programs Being Slashed?
· It is a myth that anti-poverty spending has already been slashed and cannot be a source of savings.
· Anti-poverty spending has surged 39% under President Bush to a record 16% of all federal spending
· From 2001 through 2005, Medicaid rolls expanded by 10 million and Food Stamp rolls by 8 million. Average
benefit levels grew faster than the inflation rate.
· The measure of program success should be reducing government dependency, rather than spending levels.
Breakdown by Anti-Poverty Category (Nominal $millions) 2001 2005 Increase
Health Care Assistance $133,073 $186,849 40%
Food Assistance 34,053 50,833 49%
Housing Assistance 30,091 37,899 26%
Cash & Other Assistance 88,496 121,353 37%
TOTAL ANTI-POVERTY SPENDING 285,713 396,934 39%
Breakdown by Anti-poverty Program (Nominal $millions) 2001 2005 Increase
Medicaid Grants to States $129,374 $181,720 40%
Supplemental Security Income (SSI) 30,012 40,924 36%
Food Stamps 19,096 32,614 71%
Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) Payments 26,123 34,559 32%
Housing Certificate Fund & Rental Aid 16,720 23,285 39%
Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) 18,583 17,400 -6%
Child Tax Credit Payments 982 14,624 1389%
Child Nutrition Programs 9,561 11,899 24%
State Children’s Health Insurance Fund (S-CHIP) 3,699 4,129 12%
Women, Infants and Children (WIC) 4,077 4,985 22%
Child Care Programs 3,717 4,901 32%
Other programs 23,769 25,894 9%
TOTAL ANTI-POVERTY SPENDING 285,713 396,934 39%
From 2001 through 2005, inflation totaled 10 percent, and the population grew 4 percent.
EITC and Child Tax Credit payments reflect actual subsidies beyond the tax reductions enjoyed by participants.
Anti-Poverty Spending Now Tops a Record 16% of
the Federal Budget.
0%
2%
4%
6%
8%
10%
12%
14%
16%
18%
1962 1966 1970 1974 1978 1982 1986 1990 1994 1998 2002
Fiscal Year
Percent of Federal Spending
16.1%
2.6%
Source: Office of Management and Budget Historical Tables, Tables 3.2 and 8.5, at http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2007/hist.html, and
consisting of budget functions 604 (housing aid), 605 (food aid), 609 (other income support), Medicaid, and S-CHIP.

[JustRalph]

good info Bet. Staggering numbers..........

[ljb]

And this on top of the multi-million dollar bridge to nowhere. Makes my point don't you think ?

[Lefty]

lbj, please take note of the above. Well, you beat me in and to say it makes YOUR point after you disavowed the figures. Gimme a brk lbj, that's disgusting. Be a man and admit you were wrong!

[Tom]

Ljb, YOU know a lot about bridges, don't you?
Trolls live under them.:rolleyes:

[ljb]

lbj, please take note of the above. Well, you beat me in and to say it makes YOUR point after you disavowed the figures. Gimme a brk lbj, that's disgusting. Be a man and admit you were wrong!
Gimme a break Lefty, I just asked for some clarification. You folks were comparing 50 years of expenses with the 1 month of expenses I posted a link to. and yes it does reinforce my point about the shennagins of these "borrow and spend neocons".
And it also points out how their economic strategies are detrimental to the well being of a majority of Americans while being benificial to the few and the mighty.

[ljb]

Ljb, YOU know a lot about bridges, don't you?
Trolls live under them.:rolleyes:
Trying to make a point here Tom or just flaming ?

[twindouble]

Most of us have been there, well maybe not most but having been in the business patrons would argue just about anything, in most case you would have whack them in the head to admit they were wrong. Spewing out whatever they could to support their position, as the evening went on after running the same track over and over hitting on what they think is the strongest point. I called that drunk's talking in circles. When all that was said and done the smartest most knowledgeable ones left early, the rest got drunk and belligerent, only to carry on the next day. It really boils down to a mental illness, a syndrome of some nature. The funny part of it was when anyone of them happen to win an argument, (that rarely happened) when he was losing, like clock work he would bring that subject up, :lol: I could wager on it. Me, I was stuck with those A-holes until closing. Keep in mind, this wasn't Charlie's Bar, it was up scale. With the exception of me of course because I was known as a degenerate horse player. :D

Sorry guys, if anyone who thinks they can drag liberals from the far left anywhere near the middle it's a losing battle, they are to intoxicated with themselves but they will fade away in time.

T.D.

[ljb]

Most of us have been there, well maybe not most but having been in the business patrons would argue just about anything, in most case you would have whack them in the head to admit they were wrong. Spewing out whatever they could to support their position, as the evening went on after running the same track over and over hitting on what they think is the strongest point. I called that drunk's talking in circles. When all that was said and done the smartest most knowledgeable ones left early, the rest got drunk and belligerent, only to carry on the next day. It really boils down to a mental illness, a syndrome of some nature. The funny part of it was when anyone of them happen to win an argument, (that rarely happened) when he was losing, like clock work he would bring that subject up, :lol: I could wager on it. Me, I was stuck with those A-holes until closing. Keep in mind, this wasn't Charlie's Bar, it was up scale. With the exception of me of course because I was known as a degenerate horse player. :D

Sorry guys, if anyone who thinks they can drag liberals from the far left anywhere near the middle it's a losing battle, they are to intoxicated with themselves but they will fade away in time.

T.D.

An awful lot of words to say, you aren't going to convert me to your way of thinking anymore then I am going to convert you.

[twindouble]

An awful lot of words to say, you aren't going to convert me to your way of thinking anymore then I am going to convert you.

Well I'll keep it short, that's the standard rebuttal with all that show signs of the syndrome I mentioned. ESP when the ship is sinking. Hell, you could throw the a life preserver and wouldn't know what to do with it. Anyway, I'm leaving eary, while you continue to drown yourself.


T.D.

[betchatoo]

Are Anti-Poverty Programs Being Slashed?
· It is a myth that anti-poverty spending has already been slashed and cannot be a source of savings.
· Anti-poverty spending has surged 39% under President Bush to a record 16% of all federal spending

I don't think this makes either side look good. Certainly not what you'd expect from a conservative controlled congress and White House

[twindouble]

Are Anti-Poverty Programs Being Slashed?
· It is a myth that anti-poverty spending has already been slashed and cannot be a source of savings.
· Anti-poverty spending has surged 39% under President Bush to a record 16% of all federal spending

I don't think this makes either side look good. Certainly not what you'd expect from a conservative controlled congress and White House

I see it all this way, look at the whole picture and you can find plenty of blame to go around, they all suck to no end. To me left, center, right, is bullshit when it comes down to getting anything done that's meaningful. That just divides us further when opinions get extreme, left or right, it's dumb ass thinking in my opinion. Further more it's a cancer on our country.


Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.

T.D.

[Tom]

Trying to make a point here Tom or just flaming ?
As you so often point out, I am just sharing information with the board.

[Tom]

Are Anti-Poverty Programs Being Slashed?
· It is a myth that anti-poverty spending has already been slashed and cannot be a source of savings.
· Anti-poverty spending has surged 39% under President Bush to a record 16% of all federal spending

I don't think this makes either side look good. Certainly not what you'd expect from a conservative controlled congress and White House

In the war on poverty, it looks like poverty is winning.
I read somewhere ( will look it up) that a plan to improve health care is to give everyone - everyone! $10,000 tax free every year to take care of all thier helth expenses. It would cost far less than what we have no, by eliminating the middlemen. There would be plenty of money left to fully cover extaordinary cases. There is a book aout about it.
Sounds like a good plan - so you know it will never even be considered. Those middlemen are political contributors!

[Lefty]

lbj, we are in the strongest economy in 40 years and it has benefitted everyone that wants to be benefitted but all you can do is repeat the liberal lie that it only benefits the high and mighty. I have often pointed out that it has benefitted me and everyone who pays taxes and instead of you libs admitting you were wrong i get nothing but snide comebacks. I can't educate you lbj, cause I can see it's just too late.

[Lefty]

Tom, problem is we could give everyone that $10,000 and the same people who won't help themselves for whatever reason will just blow it and still show up at the county hospitals and demand free healthcare. If we just let the lazy, drugged out, compulsive gamblers or whatever die, the libs would yell and scream even while they were having their babies sucked out of the womb and into the drain.

[Tom]

lbj, we are in the strongest economy in 40 years and it has benefitted everyone that wants to be benefitted but all you can do is repeat the liberal lie that it only benefits the high and mighty. I have often pointed out that it has benefitted me and everyone who pays taxes and instead of you libs admitting you were wrong i get nothing but snide comebacks. I can't educate you lbj, cause I can see it's just too late.

I disagree - it is not benefiting a lot of people. Good jobs are leving the country, many plants are closing thier doors and tens of thousands of people are out of work. That is not a benefit. In my county alone, three major companies have closed since January - over 1,000 jobs lost in three months. that is one small county. I counted the open jobs on the DOL website today - manufacturing jobs - 15. Basic math: how many times does 1,000 go into 15? A growing economy is not always a benefit to the middle class. Look at all the Ford and GM layoffs - just where do you think all these people will go to work?

[Lefty]

Then how do you explain the record unemployment low. Jobs have been leaving this country for years and new ones are created. If what you say is true we wouldn't be in best economy in 40 yrs. This economy has beneffited most. Record home sales, record economy. Don't try to make it rain when there aren't many clouds.

[ljb]

Tom is right Lefty. Listen to him. and you may want to read my note on the other thread, it mentions you.

[JustRalph]

Tom is right Lefty. Listen to him. and you may want to read my note on the other thread, it mentions you.

Tom is right, but so is lefty. The nature of the jobs are changing. Much of this lies on the shoulders of Nafta and such. But it would have happen anyway. It may have just taken longer.

There was no way we could sustain the inflated hourly wages that U.S. manufacturing had provided for two generations. This was the subject of countless news and magazine pieces for years. The Union's and those who chose to ignore the problem (government) are to blame. This economy was going to evolve no matter what. We, as in this countries workers , chose to do it the hard way. Now there are certain area's of the country that are suffering. Some of this suffering is based on bad decisions by the businesses that inhabited the area. Example: From Tom's area of the country. I remember when the first consumer models of Digital Camera's came out. I was working for a large major retailer of computer products and we couldn't keep them in stock at over $700 bucks each for the cheapest one. They were friggin 1 megapixel for crying out loud. The same month this was happening The leader of Kodak gave a speech saying that digital camera's and the associated printing supplies etc would never be cheap enough for the average consumer to use. He also said that the technology was too complicated for normal daily use. He said that consumers wouldn't be able to afford "complicated memory" for the camera's and digital camera's would be a fad that only the wealthiest of consumers would participate in. Kodak was at least 4 years behind in developing and selling a digital camera when they finally decided it was going to doom their business model. Kodak has yet to recover.

This is the kind of stuff that coupled with excessive wages can doom an area. The big three are just as guilty as the Unions, although the Unions are like an anvil hanging around the neck of the Big Three. Until that anvil is removed the big three will get closer and closer to extinction. And our economy will continue to evolve the way it is.

[Tom]

Then how do you explain the record unemployment low. Jobs have been leaving this country for years and new ones are created. If what you say is true we wouldn't be in best economy in 40 yrs. This economy has beneffited most. Record home sales, record economy. Don't try to make it rain when there aren't many clouds.

All I can say is stop reading about it and get out and see first hand what is going on. The unemployment figures do not tell the whole story. It is a partial statisitic that does not really reflect what is going on. It doesn't take into account those that are out of the job market. Nobody has ever really answered my question - how can you possibly equate adding a minimum wage job to the economy with losing a good manufacturing job?

The problem with reading about the economy is you are dealing with statistic, not people. This country was founded on people, not numbers.

Any damned fool can find a statisitic to back up his belief. Come on down to a foreclosure and tell the family getting put out of their lifelong home that the economy is good.

This is why both parties are so damned repulsive - neither one of them has a damn clue what this country is all about - and neither of them cares.


It is a great economy for some - it is not the American for many. And your statement that it is great for anyone who wants it to be is an insult to many people.

[Tom]

Ralph,
Kodak has been run by idiots for years. Plainly out of touch jerks who had no idea who thier customers were.
I had to laugh when they once ran a commercial that showed all this high priced lab equipment analyzing Kodak photos and Fuji photos. They contended that the technology clearly showed Kodak photo quality to be superior to Fuji's.
Yeah, bright-boy - you could not tell by naked eye the difference in the photos, but you sure as hell could tell the price diferrence - so who but an idiot would pay over a dollar more a roll to get that quality you could not see by eye?

[mainardi]

than the automakers.

They understand their "upside" VERY WELL... it's looking down the slippery slope that confuses them. When things go well for them, they have no problem placating their unions with outlandish wages. They also have a protectionist (USA-focused) view of the new world economy. While it's hard to believe, they appear NOT to have seen the "cheap labor" practices from Asia that are just KILLING the them!

So, as my Michigan family and friends that work in the industry suffer every day (all white-collar workers, BTW) because of the BAD union contracts that are in place -- explain to me the 83-y-o cleaning lady that made $74k last year, PLEASE! -- does anybody know why barge-sized SUVs are still selling? Yeah, I get supply-and-demand... but I also know that GM just sold a 51% stake in their only real money making operation (their financial business) in order to keep paying the unions to make their gas guzzlers...

Geez, I just realized HOW off-topic we get!!! This was supposed to be about the loonie that demanded her entitlement to be able to usurp the power of the congressional guards... just because she wasn't smart enough to remember her free pass. I just got back from Disney World, and if she tried that down there, they would have tasered her sorry @$$... THAT would have been worth the price of admission... "re-enactments every two hours in the EPCOT plaza!!!" :lol:

[Tom]

Joe,
You are familiar with the automotive job bank?
Makes you want to puke.

I can safley say that I never met a GM employee - management type - who was more than a moron. GM has operated soley on size for decades - they have no manufaturing or technology edge.

Take a look at all transplant auto companies in this country - ones building here, hiring Americans, with no unions - EVERY one of them outperforms every union plant in almost evrey metric.
The UAW is a worthless anchor on society. I can also safely say I never met a union boy worth half his paycheck. Useless Auto Workers.

And yet how does Bush reward GM?

He signs CAFTA so that they move even more plants outside our borders.

Dance, Boy-George, Dance.

[Lefty]

Tom, anybosy that can't do well in this economy just isn't trying. The Jihnson yrs, The Carter yrs were miserable, and even the Clinton yrs depended on getting a Repub Congress to balance Clinton's Lunacy.
I'll take this economy anytime. No, it's not perfect but it never will be.

[boxcar]

hcap,
Just as McKInney played the race card, you are invoking political bias. This NOT a Dem/Rep, Right/Left issue, but a right/wrong one.

Respectfully,
Indulto

Oh...you crossed the line my, friend. Don't dare tell a liberal that an issue is right/wrong, i.e. black/white. For in the world of most libs there are only shades of gray (save for conservatives, naturally, who have no capacity for doing any right).

Want evidence of this? Look at 'Cap's list of Repub evildoers. Why did he bang out that list? Wasn't that list designed to "prove conclusively" that [Sin]thya's sins just can't compare? That right-wrong is a relative thing? We're simply not supposed to think too harshly of this airhead on the basis of other's more greivious sins. The last thing we should do is judge her solely on the merits of her own offenses.

Boxcar

[BIG RED]

Well well well, look who's back. Enjoy your break?

Welcome back seriously.

[boxcar]

Thanks, Big Red. Won't be here fer long, though. Just had a little free time today in between a couple of projects.

Boxcar

[Tom]

Tom, anybosy that can't do well in this economy just isn't trying. The Jihnson yrs, The Carter yrs were miserable, and even the Clinton yrs depended on getting a Repub Congress to balance Clinton's Lunacy.
I'll take this economy anytime. No, it's not perfect but it never will be.

All due repsect, but what the hell do you know about it? That statement is pure BS. You do not have a clue as to what is going on in ther real world. I know firsthand many, many, people, in states across the country, professionally, who are hurting and who are trying. You sit at home in fornt of your computer screen, out of touch with the world and spin worse than the libs do! You cherry pick stats to back you up, just like hcap does.
And you call Ljb a parrot!
Even in this post, you cannot say anything without blaming it on libs. Is that your standards - better than a lib? Better than nothing? Are you dumbing down for Bush? Sure sounds like it.

Your first statment is pure ignorance.

[toetoe]

If we can get a few million more illegals over here, we may even get the average wage down to $5/hour. Hey, it's okay. Trickle-down, baby. :rolleyes:

The dumber and worse paid we get, the greater the chance of optimal population of our prisons, too. Hey, maybe we can pay Mexicans to spend time in our undercrowded jails, if we have any. See, that's a job our well-behaved Americans just won't do. Very selfish. Tsk tsk.

[Indulto]

Tom,
What are you ingesting, some kind of common sense supplement?

When it is said that unemployment is lower now than at it’s recent peak after 9/11, doesn’t that only indicate that that fewer people are losing jobs now and thus newly eligible to receive benefits? What tells how many people are still collecting benefits now compared to the peak for that statistic after 9/11. More importantly, how many people of those who received benefits after 9/11 were able to find another job when those benefits ran out. How many still have health insurance coverage since losing their jobs?

You’re 1000% right about it being all about people. Statistics are great. It’s nice to know that jobs are being created to replace ones that went away unless you’re one of those who hasn’t been able to find one (obviously, you just hadn’t “tried hard enough”). When they say X new jobs have been created in a certain sector, no one ever mentions the Y jobs that ceased to exist, whether there was a net gain or loss, or whether salaries for such positions average more or less than previously.

How can unions help workers when the government poses a greater threat to job security than the employers and, with rare exceptions, customers aren’t treated or protected any better than employees?

[Tom]

NYS is down about 120,000 jobs in the last few years. Hillary promised to created 2million. She is slightly behind:rolleyes:
Wacky Pataki and the State Legislature couldn't chase more employers out of the state if they used the National Guard.

We laughingly call our govenor Typhoid George - he is a carrier. Every busniess he visits soon withers and dies, yet he goes on and on.

[Indulto]

Guys,

Did I miss an existing discussion here or has nobody mentioned Sunday's news about Iran claiming to have 40,000 suicide bombers ready to attack the U.S., Britain, and Israel if their nuclear facility is destroyed. My first reaction is that the Borg have arrived sooner than Star Trek said they would.

[lsbets]

Guys,

Did I miss an existing discussion here or has nobody mentioned Sunday's news about Iran claiming to have 40,000 suicide bombers ready to attack the U.S., Britain, and Israel if their nuclear facility is destroyed. My first reaction is that the Borg have arrived sooner than Star Trek said they would.

Its not news when Iran says they will send that many suicide bombers after us, or when they say, like they also did last week, that they will annihilate Israel. Its only news when Bush contemplates doing something to stop Iran. :faint:

[toetoe]

That's just plain stupid. This ex-kidnapper in charge over there is begging for a nuclear warhead via air mail. These sh!thooks depend on anonymity, i.e., the fact that we can't really prove any nation is behind the actions of "rogue" murderers. To remove any doubt ahead of time is just stupid. We should live in fear forever, AND do his bidding? We Americans are ignorant, but we're not THAT STUPID!

[ljb]

Personally, I think we are getting a lot of sabre rattling from both sides.

[Tom]

Personally, I think we are getting a lot of sabre rattling from both sides.I agree - less rattling, more sories.
A great hit would have been when Little Adolph had that big military parade a few days ago we peppered it with missles and blew his little ass of his throne!

[Lefty]

NYS is down about 120,000 jobs in the last few years. Hillary promised to created 2million. She is slightly behind:rolleyes:
Wacky Pataki and the State Legislature couldn't chase more employers out of the state if they used the National Guard.

We laughingly call our govenor Typhoid George - he is a carrier. Every busniess he visits soon withers and dies, yet he goes on and on.

And you said ypu'd vote for Hillary over Bush. tch, tch.