Battaglia on Beyer [Archive] - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

Art P

03-29-2006, 07:23 PM

RXB

03-29-2006, 08:07 PM

Battaglia is a dipstick. I remember when John Asher used to co-host the CD simulcast with him; the difference in handicapping ability between the two men became readily apparent.

the little guy

03-29-2006, 09:02 PM

There was really no need for Mike Battaglia to offer any further proof that he is the most glaring example of nepotism dropping yet another know nothing on the racing world. His horrendous performances on network television during the BC broadcasts have done that already.

Funny that he waited until Beyer was out of the country to drop that brilliant insight. Or perhaps he's emboldened by the fact that Andy no longer attends the Kentucky Derby.

Stevie Belmont

03-29-2006, 09:40 PM

Mike is an okay guy. Never have been thrilled with his work at NBC. I like Neumy a bit more. Bags is a chalk players delight. Comments on Beyer have been said a million times before by many. Beyer could care less. Beyer is a great read and listen, regardless of how you feel about his digits.

the little guy

03-29-2006, 10:11 PM

Comments on Beyer have been said a million times before by many. Beyer could care less. Beyer is a great read and listen, regardless of how you feel about his digits.

I couldn't agree more.

I have also heard Battaglia is a nice guy. What I actually find most interesting about his remarks is that he is a morning line maker. Whether or not you use, or even believe in, speed figures, only a fool would deny their importance in influencing betting and it is a must for a morning line maker to at least look at speed figures in order to make a line that is even close to accurate. And Battaglia wasn't taking a shot at Beyer as much as dismissing speed figures in general by saying " time only matters to people in prison ".

Then again, after thinking about those comments, it's easy to see why he has such a bad opinion. I strongly agree with the earlier poster who mentioned the disparity between Battaglia and Jon Asher. As far as I'm concerned, Brad Thomas and Jon Asher are the best two handicappers I have ever seen on an in-house racing show ( excluding myself of course :cool: ).

Stevie Belmont

03-29-2006, 10:22 PM

When I open a form, or any other PP material, one of the first things I look at, is the final time of a race. Almost always the better horse runs a better time, and hence a higher speed figure. Depends on the track and particular track conditions. Bottom line, classy horses run faster times. This has been the case since they started racing in England.

Brad is a long shot specialist. Some of his selections are almost off the wall. The great thing about Brad, if you depend on his selections is, you can go 0-8, and still turn a profit on that 55.80 horse that wins the 9th. Classic trip capper, and follows trainer angles very close. Speak with him at Monmouth and Meadowlands a lot. Quick note on this guy, claimed he has never read a capping book in his life.

ezpace

03-30-2006, 12:09 AM

the absolute best.. Howard Wong....throw the form and program away.. he used to pick many winners daily y from equine MASH UNIT canidates at Turf Paradise. ;)

GlenninOhio

03-30-2006, 07:00 AM

From Mike Battaglia

Things that I have learned from betting every day from lowly Beulah
Park to the press boxes at mighty Churchill Downs and Keeneland.
Do Not's;
Pay any attention to the highly touted but unprofitable "Beyer" speed
figures. Look at every race from every track every day and see how many
times the horse with the highest figure wins.Time is
important only to people in prison. It has nothing to do with picking
today's winner in the 4th at River or Ellis Park.

Im with Battaglia any day over Beyer

I'm not seeing any quotation marks around these comments attributed to Mike, nor am I seeing any publication or Web site attribution.

Before we jump all over Battaglia (actually a little late for that in this thread), I would like to know where these comments came from. Art?

And just for my own education, how accurate have Beyer's picks been on the BC races?

Just looking for some fairness and balance (and accuracy).

rastajenk

03-30-2006, 07:53 AM

" Look at every race from every track every day and see how many times the horse with the highest figure wins" is a completely useless statement. Replace "with the highest figure" with any other phrase such as, "with the most wins," "with the winningest trainer (or jockey)," "with the highest earnings," "that I pick on my in-house pre-race analyses," or any other single indicator of a horse's success, and the same sentiment comes through. A single factor will get beaten up by all the other methods out there all the time, and in that regard Beyers are no different than anything else.

GaryG

03-30-2006, 07:55 AM

There was really no need for Mike Battaglia to offer any further proof that he is the most glaring example of nepotism dropping yet another know nothing on the racing world. I have always felt this way. However his father was such a great man that it it understandable at least at Turfway.

Valuist

03-30-2006, 09:55 AM

Battaglia is definitely not the best linemaker around. And he not only is the linemaker at CD but at Arlington and probably TP as well. He's a little better at CD than AP but that's not really saying much. And maybe somebody ought to clue him in, its not always the best last race Beyer, BRIS, T-Graph or any other manufactured speed figure that wins any race. But the winner usually has a figure in their past performances that is among the top 2 or 3 at the distance in the race.

RuffianSam

03-30-2006, 11:38 AM

Regardless of anyone's feelings about Andrew Beyers "know it all" attitude there are two things to keep in mind. He doesn't care and he is still a hell of a pioneer in the sport. After reading all of his books this past fall it became obvious he was a hell of a handicapper. After everyone started handicapping with speed figures he had to adjust his handicapping to still be better than everyone who had his tool. He's a great read and very interesting in his insight.

Mike Battaglia... I think he's a heck of an oddsmaker but his race calling is less than to be desired.

fouroneone

03-30-2006, 12:39 PM

I gained a lot more respect for Mike Battaglia from this thread......i like him, good guy

Art P

03-30-2006, 07:54 PM

The quotes came from battaglias website, where he includes a free play every day

cash2

03-30-2006, 08:06 PM

i don't really care for Battaglia's announcing style, and i'm clueless as to his abilities as an oddsmaker or handicapper. what i've been sick of for years is the annual Battaglia/Nick Zito suck up walk on the derby telecast. "Well, Nick, you're from New York, but they love you here in Kentucky!" Zito replies with a wave of his hand to his legion of imaginary fans. PLEASE. pull the plug. now.

Fastracehorse

03-30-2006, 08:19 PM

I would agree with Art P that Beyers are inconsistent at Kentucky circuits.

But Kentucky tracks have different medication that vary markedly from other circuit's venues.

And, I believe medications are the primary influence on performance - negative or positive - at Ky tracks ( assuming health of course ).

I am submitting that the Beyer isn't inconsistent - it is the performance that is.

If Art P is saying that Beyer's are useless in Ky it is my opinion that this is a gross over-statement.

If he is saying that Beyer's are not the single most important handicapping factor in Ky I would say he is right.

fffastt

Tom

03-30-2006, 10:12 PM

The quotes came from battaglias website, where he includes a free play every day

For kicks and giggles, it would fun to track how often his free pick is beaten a horse with a better Beyer! :lol:

MONEY

03-30-2006, 10:29 PM

What I know about Battaglia:ThmbDown: is that he charges for his Turfway picks at his website, and then gives the same picks for free in Turfways website. And his picks suck whether you pay for them or get them for nothing.:)

RXB

03-30-2006, 11:45 PM

People PAY for Battaglia's picks??????????? :faint:

PaceAdvantage

03-31-2006, 12:40 AM

What is the url to his website?

MONEY

03-31-2006, 01:35 AM

What is the url to his website?

http://www.battagliaspicks.com/

xfile

03-31-2006, 04:46 AM

It's no secret that I'm not a Beyer fan but Battaglia doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath. Both the CD linemaker/tv analyst and the one online have not a bit of talent compared to Andy Beyer. And like I said I'm not even an Andy Beyer fan. :cool:

rastajenk

03-31-2006, 12:07 PM

JPinMaryland

03-31-2006, 12:40 PM

Gee, I thought this thread was about a jock change on a horse named Beyer.

MONEY

03-31-2006, 02:14 PM

Are you sure that site is Mike Battaglia's? Because his brother (or cousin, or some kind of relative) Bruce Battaglia also is a trackman/analyst/handicapper for a few different outlets, too, and there is nothing on the mentioned site, that I saw at least, identifying which one. It could be yet another for all we know, there are several Battaglias in the racing world.
If this is the same Mike Battaglia, Yes I am sure
http://www.roadtotheroses.com/roses/images/meet_the_pros/pro_mike_battaglia.jpg Battaglia has been a fixture on the Kentucky racing circuit for over 25 years but has a national presence as well, as he continues to serve as the on-air talent for the Breeders' Cup telecasts on NBC. He was the track announcer at Churchill Downs and called 19 consecutive Kentucky Derbys, starting with the Affirmed-Alydar rivalry in 1978. Currently, Mike serves as handicapper and race caller at Turfway Park, as well as the host of the "Churchill Downs Racing Review".

The picks that he sells are the same as the free picks in the Turfway website.
I have seen the picks.

PaceAdvantage

03-31-2006, 05:31 PM

I was on the site too, and nowhere did I find this quote that is being attributed to him....but then again, on my computer, what appears to be navigation links at the top of the page are BLANK....so maybe the website doesn't function fully on my PC for whatever reason.

Anybody care to post the direct link to this quote?

Also, it never does mention on that website (at least not anywhere *I* can find) that this is Mike Battaglia's site. You'd think his full name and face would be prominently featured somewhere if it was indeed HIS site, being as this guy is a national figure, and seeing his face and full name would lend more credibility to the site (at least in the minds of some folks).

Murph

03-31-2006, 11:16 PM

The domain name is not registered when I did a whois on it. Must be some kind of a redirect? I can't trace them. Looks kinda funny though.

Murph

Art P

03-31-2006, 11:41 PM

It couldnt be found because every day there is something different on the site. The quote was included with his free pick. Every day he usually puts in something. Jockeys, trainers ,angles etc.

PaceAdvantage

03-31-2006, 11:50 PM

I ran the domain and it comes back to a TOM Battaglia....

So maybe some have jumped the gun here? Like I thought....maybe? You think?

the little guy

04-01-2006, 12:57 AM

I gotta stop believing everything posted here.

Tom

04-01-2006, 01:01 AM

As Roseanne Roseannadanna used to say, "Never mind!"

the little guy

04-01-2006, 01:21 AM

Actually, Tom, it was another Gilda Radner character, Emily Littella ( sp? ), who said " never mind ".

Though maybe Rosanne Rosannadanna said it as well.

Great character either way.

Murph

04-01-2006, 08:44 AM

wonder why internic offered to sell me the name? They claim it is unregestered. PA?

04-01-2006, 08:52 AM

I ran the domain and it comes back to a TOM Battaglia....

So maybe some have jumped the gun here? Like I thought....maybe? You think?

I tried something crazy! I wrote and asked them who makes the picks. We'll see if they answer. The word "we" is on that page a lot.

I'm sure PA knows that the domain owner has nothing to do with who is making the selections. It is clear they are at the least using the name for a reason, and it isn't Tom. That also doesn't mean Mike has anything to do with the site.

I may start a site, BeyerPicks.

04-01-2006, 08:59 AM

wonder why internic offered to sell me the name? They claim it is unregestered. PA?

Here is what I get when I looked it up:

Unfortunately, this domain is registered through Network Solutions, the worst registrar (as far as WHOIS is concerned).
They do not support WHOIS lookups from nearly ad-free sites like ours (because of the volume of hits from us), and try to force
users of our site to use their ad-laden site (http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/index.jsp).

If you don't like this policy, please send an E-mail to whoisquery@networksolutions.com
or call 1-888-642-9675 and let them know it you don't like it! Alternatively, you
can file a complaint with Internic (http://www.internic.net/cgi/registrars/problem-report.cgi).

If this is your domain, please consider using a more reasonable registrar.

MONEY

04-01-2006, 10:07 AM

Now I'm confused.:confused: I know a guy that paid for the picks and showed them to me at the track. I also know that Battaglia's picks are posted free in the Turfway site. So I checked the Battaglia paid picks against his free picks, and they were (exactly the same). If the site is not owned or endorsed by Mike Battaglia, then why are the picks the same as the picks on the Turfway site? Could it be that someone is illegitimately using his name and his picks?

Tom

04-01-2006, 11:05 AM

TLG.....I think you are right - Emily!

Whose picks - maybe they are stealing them from Mike? Are they copywrite protected? :rolleyes:

PaceAdvantage

04-01-2006, 12:38 PM

I'm sure PA knows that the domain owner has nothing to do with who is making the selections. It is clear they are at the least using the name for a reason, and it isn't Tom. That also doesn't mean Mike has anything to do with the site.

I realize that, but the circumstantial evidence to date seems to support the theory that this isn't Mike Battaglia's site, although it very well could be....

The name MIKE appears nowhere on the site that I can find, and his picture is nowhere to be found. If I were him, and I was hosting a pay-for-picks website, I'd certainly put my name and face up there, since I would tend to think that would sell more selections (at least to the unwashed masses).

04-01-2006, 12:45 PM

Exactly PA, that is what I was getting at. The guy running the site is in Latonia Ky though. Maybe they are just not very good marketers? Who knows or cares really? They haven't answered my email yet about who makes the picks.

sjk

04-01-2006, 01:19 PM

Latonia Ky is not that close to Turfway Park and there's not much reason to think that Mike Battaglia would be located there.

04-01-2006, 01:22 PM

Latonia Ky is not that close to Turfway Park and there's not much reason to think that Mike Battaglia would be located there.

I wasn't trying to say that he was, just that he was in Kentucky.

04-01-2006, 01:36 PM

Here is the answer:

Hello,
The word we refers to my father Bruce Battaglia and myself.
Talk to you later,
Tom

the little guy

04-01-2006, 02:44 PM

I believe Turfway Park is pretty much in what at least used to be Latonia and perhaps now is considered Covington.

Am I confused or wasn't the former name of Turfway in fact Latonia?

04-01-2006, 02:49 PM

I believe Turfway Park is pretty much in what at least used to be Latonia and perhaps now is considered Covington.

Am I confused or wasn't the former name of Turfway in fact Latonia?

Yes, but I didn't want to get into that with the guy as it wasn't my point anyway.

the little guy

04-01-2006, 02:53 PM

I just thought maybe I was confused.

the little guy

04-01-2006, 02:55 PM

Hey, by the way CJ, I thought you were supposed to be some hot shot horseplayer. Thus, I have to ask, where the hell is all your Vcash?

I'm saving mine for a rainy day. Wanna borrow some at 1 1/2 points?

sjk

04-01-2006, 03:01 PM

Turfway is in Erlanger, Ky and was originally named Latonia. It was named after a track that was located in Latonia KY (10 miles away) many years earlier.

It makes sense that someone who is hoping people will infer a connection with Turfway might use a Latonia address.

KyRacer

04-01-2006, 03:04 PM

Using the Wayback site I checked out an earlier version of the Battagliaspicks site and found a link about the handicapper. Looks like Thomas Michael Battaglia is the handicapper. It appears Bruce Battaglia was his father and Mike Battaglia is his uncle. His grandfather, John Battaglia was the general manager of Latornia back in the 70's. More at this link. Never used his picks so I have no idea if there any good. Sounds like the family has been around racing for awhile.

Battagliaspicks Handicapper (http://web.archive.org/web/20030802115008/www.battagliaspicks.com/tbattaglia.htm)

04-01-2006, 03:30 PM

the little guy

04-01-2006, 04:58 PM

Most is better than me. I suck at them all.

Indulto

04-01-2006, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage:

I ran the domain and it comes back to a . . .PA and CJ,
Blogger "leftatthegate" once mentioned all the information available to website owners, but didn't address the issue of anonymous surfng. Is that term just an oxymoron and are all these software package claims just BS? If so, was it always thus?

Thanks for any information you'd be willing to share in this or any other thread.
Indulto

PaceAdvantage

04-01-2006, 06:07 PM

It has nothing to do with anonymous surfing. If you own a website address, you can be "looked up" via whois.net...unless of course you pay a little extra to privatize your info....

Think of it as a "yellow pages" of sorts, but instead of listing phone numbers and names, it contains website addresses and their owners.....

Indulto

04-01-2006, 06:21 PM

PA,

I understand that you weren't talking about anonymous surfing, but your post reminded me that board managers do have access to information about those who visit their site even without log-in requirements. I just wondered if that was information you might be willing to share in a thread dealing with on-line sleuthing of sorts.

04-01-2006, 06:25 PM

Not as much information as you might think. You can narrow down locations fairly well by IP address, but as far as your name and things like that, not likely.

Indulto

04-01-2006, 07:02 PM

Not as much information as you might think. You can narrow down locations fairly well by IP address, but as far as your name and things like that, not likely.CJ,
Thanks for responding.

Not likely, not usually, or never privately?

I understand that law enforcement and some other government authorities can obtain am individual's identity from their IP provider. Who else can, and is there any commercial source of that information other than the IP provider,

Why do some websites indicate that they are logging one's IP address as one traverses their site?

Are website operators regulated in any way as to their ability to exchange information with their peers regarding information they have associated with urls for marketing and/or other purposes?

Thanks again.

lsbets

04-01-2006, 08:21 PM

Indulto -

Here is what I get for each visitor on my web site:

IP address
City and State associated with that IP address
How they came to my site (through a search engine, referred by another site, directly, etc ....)
How long they spend on each page and where they navigate to next

I do not pay any premium to get this information. I would imagine that there are those who have the ability to narrow down the IP address to finer detail beyond city and state, but I also know that the IP address for my DSL account changes every month. I doubt folks can get your name and address unless they already have that associated with your IP address. I also know that oftentimes IP addresses can be innacurate depending on how the connection is routed. A good example is I had a guy on my site from an Army base in Iraq and he showed up as an IP address in Utah. After Katrina, some IP addresses from New Orleans were showing up as coming from Mexico, which I would assume was due to the routing.

Indulto

04-01-2006, 09:22 PM

Here is what I get for each visitor on my web site:

IP address
City and State associated with that IP address
How they came to my site (through a search engine, referred by another site, directly, etc ....)
How long they spend on each page and where they navigate to next

I do not pay any premium to get this information. I would imagine that there are those who have the ability to narrow down the IP address to finer detail beyond city and state, but I also know that the IP address for my DSL account changes every month. I doubt folks can get your name and address unless they already have that associated with your IP address. I also know that oftentimes IP addresses can be innacurate depending on how the connection is routed. .lsbets,
I appreciate the input.

As you are acutely aware from personal experience how aggravating I can appear on-line, the new law against annoying anonymously has agitated me to aggressively alliterate in order to appeasingly alleviate my anxiety and angst.

Thanks again, my friend.

DrugSalvastore

04-01-2006, 10:49 PM

I'm starting a ground breaking new website called www.WinWithDrugS.com (http://www.WinWithDrugS.com)Instead of providing sound handicapping analysis and great betting startegy, I'm just going to pick every horse that is trained by guys who are rumored to be employing veterinarian Steve Allday, as well as all horses ridden by P. Val and trained by Frank Amonte Jr.

I think you guys should really check it out.

lsbets

04-01-2006, 10:53 PM

lsbets,
I appreciate the input.

As you are acutely aware from personal experience how aggravating I can appear on-line, the new law against annoying anonymously has agitated me to aggressively alliterate in order to appeasingly alleviate my anxiety and angst.

Thanks again, my friend.

If I worried myself about how many people I annoy, both on and off line, I'd never sleep. As long as the wife and kids are quiet, umm I mean happy, than all is fine with me. However, your aggresive alliteration is absolutely appreciated.

PaceAdvantage

04-01-2006, 11:37 PM

Indulto

04-02-2006, 03:30 AM

The only way law enforcement can identify you through an IP address is if they get access to the records of YOUR internet service provider. Many ISPs require a warrant before they will give up such information.

Regular website owners such as myself do not have access to this information, simply because we do not have access to the records of your internet service provider.

Of course, all this assumes you are surfing the net through an ISP to whom you provided your real name, address, credit card #, etc.PA,
Thank you for responding in such detail. Very interesting point.

I suppose deception IS the ultimate tool for privacy protection as well as weapon of choice for the serial anonymous annoyer. Is the sin of omission any different from the sin of commission? Is unwillingness to volunteer information the same as withholding it?

Is it unethical, much less illegal to distort information collected for marketing purposes as opposed to entering contracts? Is the threat of lawsuits on the part of data vendors considered distortion if there is no legal basis for such warnings, or is it just good marketing practice?

I’d like to also inquire about e-mail addresses, if I may. I have provided my e-mail address on several occasions to register for software support and on-line forums, but the only time I ever noticed a significant increase in e-mail was the day after I registered here. I’m not complaining or accusing, I’m just curious as to whether there is any overt or covert marketing of your data?

PaceAdvantage

04-02-2006, 03:26 PM

twindouble

04-02-2006, 03:47 PM

I can tell you I have never given away, nor have I ever sold anyone's email address, if that's your question. The only way any email address used to register on this board will ever "get out" is if you yourself post it publicly in a message, or you give it to another user via private message or email.

Maybe I'm naive but what's the big problem of giving out your e-mail address other than spam that we all delete anyway. No different than the junk mail we get via the post office. Not only that in most cases when your doing resurch, they require an e-mail address and other non secure information. Plus all you have to do is request to be taken off the list when they send you junk.

T.D.

04-02-2006, 03:48 PM

I can tell you I have never given away, nor have I ever sold anyone's email address, if that's your question. The only way any email address used to register on this board will ever "get out" is if you yourself post it publicly in a message, or you give it to another user via private message or email.

I had no idea how valuable email lists could be. I was offered a rather large sum of money from an offshore book to give them the list of my customers, which is around 150. I was really amazed. I didn't take it, as I don't think it is a very nice thing to do, and probably would lose customers in the long run. I can imagine you would be getting offers nearing 5 digits, no cents included, for yours.

PaceAdvantage

04-02-2006, 04:32 PM

I've never been offered anything by anyone for my email list.... Maybe that's one of the reasons I haven't sold it....LOL (Just kidding....)

Then again, whenever I am contacted by an offshore outfit to talk about advertising, I have always politely responded by saying something to the effect "the ambiguity in US law concerning internet advertising and offshore gambling entities prevents me from taking such ads at the moment"

Maybe I should just say "screw it" and start taking offshore ads....who knows?

Indulto

04-02-2006, 04:36 PM

PA,
Thanks again.

I find it harder to express myself properly when I'm being serious, and so I want to revise my condom size for your records. ;)

My motivation was to satisfy my curiosity with intent to alert. Hat's off to both you and CJ for resisting such temptation

Maybe I'm naive but what's the big problem of giving out your e-mail address other than spam that we all delete anyway. No different than the junk mail we get via the post office. Not only that in most cases when your doing resurch, they require an e-mail address and other non secure information. Plus all you have to do is request to be taken off the list when they send you junk.TD,
Aside from the not-too-distant Anthrax letter threat, e-mails represent a far greater threat to the health of one's finances and computer operation.

BTW has anybody else experienced an increase in e-mails received when they asked to be removed from a list? Does anyone know how to delete an e-mail from an Outlook Express inbox without opening it? I hate having to always check the spamcatcher first, but I've learned the hard way to never open an e-mail from an unfamiliar source.

Also, TD, re-read Tom's reasons for his suspicions re: the DRF e-mail.