Keeping Records

[dav4463]

I am a non-computer handicapper. I keep all of my records in notebooks. I update every other day. I separate results by type of race and surface, pretty basic....Routes, Sprints, Maiden routes, Maiden sprints, Turf Routes, Turf Sprints....I keep up with the odds and results of each of my top four picks in each race along with exacta and trifecta results. Once a notebook is full, I transfer the total to a new book, but I look for hot streaks....last twenty races or so....to see if I am hot at a particular type of race that week.

Question: For a non-computer handicapper, are there any other easier ways of keeping records of your top four picks in each type of race without having so many notebooks to go through?

[bobbyb]

David

You can look at Betting Analyst Supreme from Cynthia Pub. I started out (as a newbie) the same way you have been doing your records, then I went with BAS because of its simplicity. You can list up to, your top 4 picks and your wagers; for 10 bucks a month you download the results from HDW. End result gives you what you want for bet tracking incl conditions, gender, distance, surface, WPS and your bottom line. Takes me about 20 minutes a card.

bobbyb

[dav4463]

Thanks for the info. I may try that out.

[rrbauer]

I am a non-computer handicapper. I keep all of my records in notebooks. I update every other day. I separate results by type of race and surface, pretty basic....Routes, Sprints, Maiden routes, Maiden sprints, Turf Routes, Turf Sprints....I keep up with the odds and results of each of my top four picks in each race along with exacta and trifecta results. Once a notebook is full, I transfer the total to a new book, but I look for hot streaks....last twenty races or so....to see if I am hot at a particular type of race that week.

Question: For a non-computer handicapper, are there any other easier ways of keeping records of your top four picks in each type of race without having so many notebooks to go through?
Comment:
Being a "non-computer handicapper" does not preclude being a "computer record keeper". Apparently you have a computer since you're posting here. So why not use some spreadsheet software (Excel) and start posting your info in a spreadsheet. Develop some codes for the race types and you can just comingle the data entering it chronologically and then sort on the type code to get it in order by race type for your analysis.

You don't mention betting....are you just keeping track of your picks and not betting them? If you are betting them do you use an internet account? If so, does your betting account service provide a time-phased bet-by-bet recap of your action? If so, you could make periodic downloads of that data with simple cut/paste processes into a spreadsheet.

Having said all of that, it's worth saying, "If it works, don't fix it." The fact that you're keeping records and referring to them is 90% of the battle!

[twindouble]

Having said all of that, it's worth saying, "If it works, don't fix it." The fact that you're keeping records and referring to them is 90% of the battle!

__________________
Richard Bauer

Not knocking keeping records but my God man, "90% of the battle." In 46 years the closest I ever came to keeping records was counting my bankroll at the end of the day. Some days it took longer than others. :D Heck 10% of the time I was checking the girls out so where does that leave me. :cool:

T.D.

[rrbauer]

Having said all of that, it's worth saying, "If it works, don't fix it." The fact that you're keeping records and referring to them is 90% of the battle!

__________________
Richard Bauer

Not knocking keeping records but my God man, "90% of the battle." In 46 years the closest I ever came to keeping records was counting my bankroll at the end of the day. Some days it took longer than others. :D Heck 10% of the time I was checking the girls out so where does that leave me. :cool:

T.D.
Well TD you're just better than me. What else can I say.

[twindouble]

Well TD you're just better than me. What else can I say.

Thanks, coming from you inspires me to turn Pro. :jump:







T.D.

[oddswizard]

I now use a computer to keep records. Used to use a word processor. I use a standard page (8 1/2x11) & print out my selections for each race before I go to the track. I have the selections by name, the odds at post time, the record of what happened ( Pass or play the race) & the daily results (profits or loss). When I come home from the track I place the page and results in a binder. I have been doing this for years and it works. Go for it!

[dav4463]

I do bet from home sometimes, but I also like to go to the track a couple of times a week so I wasn't sure how to mix the two as far as keeping betting records. I have another notebook for the betting records and they start to pile up too. I learn from races that I don't play as well. That is why I like to keep records of the races I pick even if I don't get to bet that day. I have Microsoft Works, but I don't have Excel. I guess it has a spreadsheet too. I've never bothered learning to use it. About the only thing I use the computer for is getting the DRF and betting and then getting results and writing them on my pick sheets.

[maxwell]

Excel is a great way to store reams of info. When the page is full, print a copy and store in a folder - or make a hard copy. Also much easier to make corrections.

Trying to track and log four horses is no easy go - I just track and log my first playable horse in a race and it wipes me out!

[Dan H]

Sorry to ruin a perfectly good thread, but ...

What about keeping betting tickets for tax time (if you claim your losses)?

How do on-line bettors keep records for tax claims?

-------------

I suppose you can solve the record keeping problem if you just don't lose ...
I'm working on that.

Dan H

[rrbauer]

Sorry to ruin a perfectly good thread, but ...

What about keeping betting tickets for tax time (if you claim your losses)?

How do on-line bettors keep records for tax claims?

-------------

I suppose you can solve the record keeping problem if you just don't lose ...
I'm working on that.

Dan H

A daily log or journal that shows bets made and results will satisfy the IRS. Contrary to what you may hear, you do not need losing tickets. What you do need is a consistent process.

The last time that I was audited I hauled two of the 10-ream boxes that printer/copier paper is sold in into the audit on a small dolly. My betting documents were a single 8.5 x 11 page with program info (printed from home-grown software) for each race that I bet during the year in question.


Periodically, I get them in order (by date) and enter bets/cashes into a program that stores the info and is used for a variety of reports to both analyze what I'm doing by track/bet type, etc. and also a summary by month that is attached to my tax return in support of my winnings/losings.

PhoneBet will provide you a year-end summary of bets/deposits/withdrawals if you request it from them. And, I believe you can get info from Youbet and Pinnacle from their transaction registers that would "prove" your entries at tax time.

[twindouble]

A daily log or journal that shows bets made and results will satisfy the IRS. Contrary to what you may hear, you do not need losing tickets. What you do need is a consistent process.

The last time that I was audited I hauled two of the 10-ream boxes that printer/copier paper is sold in into the audit on a small dolly. My betting documents were a single 8.5 x 11 page with program info (printed from home-grown software) for each race that I bet during the year in question.


Periodically, I get them in order (by date) and enter bets/cashes into a program that stores the info and is used for a variety of reports to both analyze what I'm doing by track/bet type, etc. and also a summary by month that is attached to my tax return in support of my winnings/losings.

PhoneBet will provide you a year-end summary of bets/deposits/withdrawals if you request it from them. And, I believe you can get info from Youbet and Pinnacle from their transaction registers that would "prove" your entries at tax time.

Sounds like a lot work. I have yet to be audited business or personal. I use a seperate account for my gambling online and the W2G's come in the mail. The bank sends me a Monthly statement on deposts and withdraws. What ever I do at the track is my business with the exception of the W2G's I get there, the cash comes out of the same bank account but that don't happen many times, no track close by and norm I have enough cash on hand for a day or two at the track. I never play a pick 6 online because I have partners involed, the paper work and Federal withholding is a can of worms if we should ever hit.;) So I don't use a schedule C for gambling. Evidently what I do hasn't throw up any flags when it comes to Federal taxes but the State gets it's share every year. 5.5%. :mad:

T.D.

[rrbauer]

TD writes:
"Sounds like a lot work. I have yet to be audited business or personal. I use a seperate account for my gambling online and the W2G's come in the mail. The bank sends me a Monthly statement on deposts and withdraws. What ever I do at the track is my business with the exception of the W2G's I get there,..."

How do you report the W2G info on your return?

[twindouble]

How do you report the W2G info on your return?

__________________
Richard Bauer

1040 income, schedule A deductions. Take up to what your W2G's, no other loses when it comes to gambling. Worked for me. Like I said, there's no deduction for gambling in this State. MA.

[traynor]

twindouble wrote: <I never play a pick 6 online because I have partners involed, the paper work and Federal withholding is a can of worms if we should ever hit.;) >

Given that a number of forum members are making substantial incomes from wagering, it might be interesting to explore the methods used by those members to maintain records of those winnings, as well as loss writeoffs.

Taxes are a major issue for professionals, and meticulous records avoid a LOT of hassles. Consider annual filing, swimming in red ink for the year, then hitting a major win just before Christmas. If you can't substantiate losses, you can't use them as an offset. Going the "wink, wink" route is an invitation to disaster. Oddly, it seems it is the losers who are most disinclined to keep records, presumably because they don't really want to know how far behind they are.
Good Luck

[twindouble]

twindouble wrote: <I never play a pick 6 online because I have partners involed, the paper work and Federal withholding is a can of worms if we should ever hit.;) >

Given that a number of forum members are making substantial incomes from wagering, it might be interesting to explore the methods used by those members to maintain records of those winnings, as well as loss writeoffs.

Taxes are a major issue for professionals, and meticulous records avoid a LOT of hassles. Consider annual filing, swimming in red ink for the year, then hitting a major win just before Christmas. If you can't substantiate losses, you can't use them as an offset. Going the "wink, wink" route is an invitation to disaster. Oddly, it seems it is the losers who are most disinclined to keep records, presumably because they don't really want to know how far behind they are.
Good Luck

So what your saying is, just because I never kept any serious records for the last 46 years playing the horses, I'm without a doubt a loser. Like I said before, I have a huge money pit in my back yard. :jump:

T.D.

[the_fat_man]

Given that a number of forum members are making substantial incomes from wagering, it might be interesting to explore the methods used by those members to maintain records of those winnings, as well as loss writeoffs.

Taxes are a major issue for professionals, and meticulous records avoid a LOT of hassles. Consider annual filing, swimming in red ink for the year, then hitting a major win just before Christmas. If you can't substantiate losses, you can't use them as an offset. Going the "wink, wink" route is an invitation to disaster. Oddly, it seems it is the losers who are most disinclined to keep records, presumably because they don't really want to know how far behind they are.
Good Luck

Traynor

You're assuming that TWIN plays from home. As best as I can determine, he's one of the rare breed that actually goes to the track.

Doubtful he wins but wouldn't it be ironic
if he does and DOESN'T REPORT a profit.

NOW, that's sticking it to the big wigs.

All the others, 'making substantial incomes from wagering', enjoy paying your 50%+ tax (takeout and taxes -- rebate included)

[the_fat_man]

I stand corrected.

From PinnacleSports.com :

'Your tax liability depends upon the jurisdiction in which you reside. PinnacleSports.com does not, and will not, provide to any third party the details of individual deposits, winnings, or losses. It is up to you to declare win/loss information to the proper authorities in your tax jurisdiction.'

Very interesting

Anyone familiar with the IRS' take on/practice with, this?


P.S.

They don't even require a SS#

I bet they do, however, in the cases where you want to buy data from them :D

[PaceAdvantage]

The IRS wants you to report any and all sources of income...they don't care where or how you got it...legally or illegally....they believe they are entitled to their cut...

Whether or not the IRS can peek at Pinnacle's records - it depends on what kind of relationship the US has with the particular country in which Pinnacle resides....I think with the expanded "war on terrorism," there is more cooperation between certain nations when it comes to covert finances. Whether or not the IRS can broaden the scope of these "new rules" and use them to see who's cheating the gov't overseas remains to be seen....

[Fastracehorse]

I am a non-computer handicapper. I keep all of my records in notebooks. I update every other day. I separate results by type of race and surface, pretty basic....Routes, Sprints, Maiden routes, Maiden sprints, Turf Routes, Turf Sprints....I keep up with the odds and results of each of my top four picks in each race along with exacta and trifecta results. Once a notebook is full, I transfer the total to a new book, but I look for hot streaks....last twenty races or so....to see if I am hot at a particular type of race that week.

Question: For a non-computer handicapper, are there any other easier ways of keeping records of your top four picks in each type of race without having so many notebooks to go through?

I don't think there is any easy way to record keep - laborious/tedious.

But it has helped to improve my understanding of the game.

For example: Over thousands of selections I noticed that my picks with tactical speed were winning at a significantly higher rate than choices with the best early speed. This opened my eyes during the selection process - ie, I am no longer prejudiced against runners with mild early kick or even late runners.

Also, one of the authors on this forum - I forget who - mentioned that 'if he could find the winner 80 % of the time in his top 6 choices he was doing well.'
I also experienced being beaten in p-3's and p-4's by choices as late as my sixth - quite often! Why I believe the aforementioned is important is this: Most races are contentious - and obviously if this is true - it should impact on the way we pari-mutuelize.

fffastt

[traynor]

PaceAdvantage wrote: <The IRS wants you to report any and all sources of income...they don't care where or how you got it...legally or illegally....they believe they are entitled to their cut...>

And rightly so. I don't see much difference between paying taxes and buying insurance--both of which are an exchange of money for avoidance of unpleasant outcomes. It is perplexing to read postings that worry about "violating contractual obligations" of a data provider, yet seem to view tax evasion (a FAR more serious matter, IMO) as sport.

I am not suggesting that a failure to keep accurate records indicates a specific member is or is not a loser. That is an issue between you, your accountant, and the IRS. The serious bettors I know keep accurate, detailed records of wins and losses that are as useful in developing, calibrating, and adjusting their own wagering strategies as they are in keeping the IRS (and their accountants) happy.
Good Luck
Good Luck

[twindouble]

PaceAdvantage wrote: <The IRS wants you to report any and all sources of income...they don't care where or how you got it...legally or illegally....they believe they are entitled to their cut...>

And rightly so. I don't see much difference between paying taxes and buying insurance--both of which are an exchange of money for avoidance of unpleasant outcomes. It is perplexing to read postings that worry about "violating contractual obligations" of a data provider, yet seem to view tax evasion (a FAR more serious matter, IMO) as sport.

I am not suggesting that a failure to keep accurate records indicates a specific member is or is not a loser. That is an issue between you, your accountant, and the IRS. The serious bettors I know keep accurate, detailed records of wins and losses that are as useful in developing, calibrating, and adjusting their own wagering strategies as they are in keeping the IRS (and their accountants) happy.
Good Luck
Good Luck

I think the words SERIOUS PlAYERS is abused and over used. When it comes to my handicapping and wagering I'm just as serious as any existing player in this world. That has nothing to do with keeping records in my opinion. Any third grader can count money. You start the day with so much, end the day with so much. Having a seperate banking account just for gambling tells the story at the end of the year. Simple as that!

Well maybe not as serious as used to be. :)

T.D.