Winnining at the Races-BP (Betting Progression)

[jackad]

I just received the latest RPM catalog. This booklet is featured, at a price of $59. The writeup has this quote from Tom Console: "Winning at the Races, BP is one of the soundest bankroll management strategies we've ever tested. Stick with it and you will make money. Period!"

Any comments?

Jack

[GameTheory]

Yeah --

Don't believe it for a second.


Not even a second.



For one thing, you can't make money with *any* money management system unless you can make a flat-bet profit first. Some systems will cause you to make less money than you otherwise would, whilst still remaining profitable. Obviously, such a system would be a lousy one.

So saying, "You would make money" is stupid (and meaningless) because you have to be able to make it on your own (flat betting) before any system would have the possibility of helping you.

Not to mention any time you see the word "progression", you should be frightened...

[kitts]

Really good stuff on Money Management written by Dave Schwartz-check it out at horsestreet.com. It is very well done and is quite different from the run-of-the-mill stuff

[Lefty]

Jackad, I traded the author for a copy of his plan when he was selling it himself for $100.
It's a plain old "vanilla" due col. You bet your selections if they are 5-1 or more. If you stick with it you surely will go broke.

[dav4463]

Is that the one where they bet only the #1 post position and claimed to make thousands of dollars ?

[Lefty]

Yes, it starts out saying bet your own selections when 5-1 or more and then just to "prove" how good it is they show a workout betting just the no. 1 post. Problem is, they didn't say what to do when the 40-60 losers comes along. Of course, their workout doesn't show a string of losers this long.
When I traded for it, I told the author(before I knew what it was) that it sounded like a due column. He told me he didn't know what a due co;umn was and that his was a marvelous discovery.
In a catalog just received from Dave powers this piece of trash is touted in a 2 page ad. Tom Console highly recommends it.
I've lost respect for Dave by selling junk like this and the junk put out by Robert Anthony.
BTW, the highly touted Anthony money management system is a slight modification of one put out by Dick Herter.

[jackad]

Lefty,
Where can one find the Dick Herter system? Thanks.
Jack

[Lefty]

Jack, don't think he's around anymore. Anyway, Dave Powers sells a ver of it written by Robert Anthony as i've said. It's a dangerous progression and i don't recommend it. It's based on levels and I understand some of Herter's stuff being sold on e-bay.

[Topcat]

Dave Powers, aka Clint Tracy and RPM Publications
have really started going over the top with their claims recently.

I don't know if they have reached a saturation point and business is falling off but it is a shame as they used to come across as more reputable and they gave offered some decent products in the past, e.g. Richard Bauer's software. Their recent exaggerations put all of their claims in question.

Just flipping through their recent catalog gives one a real dilemma. Which systems to choose? So many goofy systems are touted as being tested on a large database and BINGO BANGO you're making thousands! Win % and ROIs that would make Mike Warren drool. Why bother to choose let's just buy them all and in we'll be making millions in no time!

[PaceAdvantage]

rocajack,

Unless you want to expand on your comment, it's going to have to go. Can't be posting vague stuff like that about vendors.....


==PA

[John]

PA,

Sorry,If you think it is wrong remove it. Its just my opinion of the guy.


IF WISHES WERE HORSES,WE'D ALL RIDE."

[freeneasy]

yeah jack, me to and three, I took the bait, I couldnt resist all that hype made about it so i had to see. when i read it i immeadiately recognized it. it was the money management section of a handicapping coarse i took at least 15 years ago here in LA. the coarse was given by a man named sprint rodgers, who started p.h.a. professional handicappers association, and joe weiss, the man who is marketing this betting system was his sidekick. sprint rodgers ripped off the handicapping system being taught in his coarse from the man that developed impact values. and as far as the money management part went, who knows where he got that from. but I got it some 15-20 years ago at least, as part of his handi. coarse. and i wouldnt trust joe weiss as far as i could throw him. there both a couple of jive time turkey bullshit artists. I called dave powers back and told him I had this system whan I took sprint rodgers handic. coarse way back when and I wants my money back. he said send it back and he will refund my dough. joe weiss, the guys a joke

[PaceAdvantage]

rocajack,

not sure if it's an opinion or a diagnosis. I'll lean towards the latter.....


==PA

[Lefty]

"free" due columns go back over a 100 yrs. When I first started in the 50's I bght a little booklet for a buck that was about a due column and had a workout for the whole Atlantic City meet. That little dollar booklet was 50 times better than this supposedly new Winning BP. It's a joke. At least powers will give you a refund.

[freeneasy]

yeah jack, me to and three, I took the bait, I couldnt resist all that hype made about it so i had to see. when i read it i immeadiately recognized it. it was the money management section of a handicapping coarse i took at least 15 years ago here in LA. the coarse was given by a man named sprint rodgers, who started p.h.a. professional handicappers association, and joe weiss, the man who is marketing this betting system was his sidekick. sprint rodgers ripped off the handicapping system being taught in his coarse from the man that developed impact values. and as far as the money management part went, who knows where he got that from. but I got it some 15-20 years ago at least, as part of his handi. coarse. and i wouldnt trust joe weiss as far as i could throw him. I called dave powers back and told him I had this system whan I took sprint rodgers handic. coarse way back when and I wants my money back. he said send it back and he will refund my dough. joe weiss, the guys a joke

[freeneasy]

PA its a diagnostic opinion based on fact. when i was a member of PHA sprint rodgers started a thing called club 1000 where you fork over $1000 and your money is then invested in betting the picks that sprint and joe weiss came up with. they take their cut of the profits and the rest of the profits go to you. they had about 12-15 members join. the monies was to be bet at 3% increments of whatever the total bankroll would be standing at at the time. this for the del mar meet. after a week sprint turned the operation entirely over to joe weiss and had nothing and wanted nothing more to do with the club or how joe weiss was handling the club. nobody was informed of this change. and i found out when after a month and a half i called and asked sprint "hey man what the hells going on, no letter, no phone call, no update, no progress report. so now trying to contact joe weiss did not succeed and i finally tracked his manegie ass down in the clubhouse and the conversation that followed and his answers to my questions was so full of crap, it was all i could do to keep from beating the stuffing out of him right then and there. i told the man to get whats left of the rest of my money back to me. well he sent me the remainder of my money with a photo copy of the bets he made, and that had absolutely no order to it, made absolutely no sense, and no matter how i figured it, came up short every time. the man was stealing plain and simple. hes a liar and a thief.

[John]

freeaneasy

Hey Buddy, you are not alone. In this game you would like to put you faith in somebody let alone your hard earned money. I too years ago put $500 and got a piece of software crap that had to run manual. I was told the $500 would go in to trifectas at the track and I would recive the selections via telephone before the races began. I did get a phone call all selections were off the wall I mean the three longest horse in the race were the picks.He hit one race tri $400.00 I called and said do I get half. No way ,we play again and again untill the paper bankroll was gone. My $500.....well I guess you know the rest of the story.

You know Free I wonder how many guys will tell how they got taken . You and I did because we don't have ego's and besides I did the Voodoo Thing and heard that guy got pretty sick for awhile.
PA I wish this board had spell check...

"IF WISHES WERE HORSES,WE'D ALL RIDE."

[freeneasy]

yeah roca thats the last time anybody ever got my hard earned money. and at that time a $1000 bucks was good freaken money. I did once get in on gorden jones pk6 thing he had going on preakness day several years back at hollywood. I think he had 2 winners on the card. go for gin was the winner and he couldnt even pick that horse. and if gordon jones would have even made so much as a funny looking move with my money being in that pk6 pot I would have put him up against the wall right then and there. and now that i think of it that betting progression method that joe weiss is hyping might be on sprint rodgers handicapping site. for free. I stumbled on his site a few years back and saw it being given out as a free promotion, or something very similar. and if i know sprint then chances are hes still got his site going, taking anyboby for anything theyve got. its professional handicappers association . com or pha. com or p.h.a.com or something like that. wtf this guy sprint, ha, you want a good laugh, go to his site, hes selln all kinds of looney tune mumbo jumbo. good for a laugh, ha

[PaceAdvantage]

Unfortunately, there is still no documented proof of what you are saying......some supposed unpublicized shady betting club????

Why would anyone fork over $1000 to anyone without being sure of what they are going to get in return????



==PA

[Dick Schmidt]

PA,

There is never any reason to put together a "betting syndicate." I used to have guys ask me to bet their money all the time, and I always asked them why? If you can do it, you don't need their money, and if you can't there isn't enough money in the world. Pick and play your own.

Roca

I can't function without a spell checker. There used to be one on this board, but they wanted to charge PA, so he dumped it. I was bemoaning this when someone pointed me to a spell checker that works on posts before you put them up using your Word spell check. I don't remember the URL where this free program was, but if you search back maybe 9 months you'll find it.

Duck, I mean Dick.

[Lefty]

Free, no need to go to Rogers' site. Reread my posts, I gave you the gist for free. It's a DUE COLUMN. You set your per race goal, divide by the odds, but bet nothing under 5-1. Oldest stuff in the world and not one shred of originality.

[freeneasy]

your kidden. 4 question marks. one more and i may have taken it personally. bonzo, the monkey scientist could figure out the why to that (heshoots hescoressss).
just after James Qurin came out with his book Winning at the races, sprint rodgers came to L.A. offering a handicapping coarse and boasting himself with a half page ad in the daily racing form as NORTH AMERICAS FOREMOST HANDICAPPER. his coarse was $225, and that was way back when. now it wasnt so bad a coarse as class levels, par times, track variants and making them and money management were taught. ( the same money management system that smoe, err joe weiss is hyping.)
at the time I had no real working knowledge of how this game was played and how it was won, all I knew was I loved the game, was ignorant of it and hungry to learn how it all worked. when sprint rodgers came along teaching and elaborating on the secrets and hidden insights to unlocking and understanding the many, and at that time of my life all the handicapping mysteries of horseracing and upon hearing this echelon of knowledge ever for the first time ever, did, to say the least, take my breath away. you could have reeled me in with kite string. period. I was hooked all the way baby, all the way.
and so because of my lack of knowledge, in my minds eye, compared to me, this man had it all. he had the grail, he had the goods, he had the hammer, he had ( to an uneducated mind) all the answers, and here again inmy minds eye was a man who has discovered the secrets to success at handicapping the horseraces and was willing to share it with any and all. and at the time I would have followed him to the suns end.
I could see no reason ( of coarse being as nieve and gullible as I was at the time) to distrust, doubt, or even suspect the man of having anything to do with wrong doing, as how can a man of such a highly calibrated knowledge and willingness to share that knowledge, even so much as need to place his trust in anything other then the success his claims were made out to be. impossible.
so you see PA it wasnt difficult for me to place my trust that is my $1000 bucks into the hands of a man who had it all. I saw a supossedly solid opportunity being offered and took my shot. an onanonanon.
now to the proof. you want proof, you got proof. here it is. how can you ask for proof about something that took place over 15 years ago. yu afun'en me? whadaya think i kept that sloppyass record keeping copy of the betting transactions that joe weiss tried to pass off on me as some kind of legitimate proof of honest dealings. bull stinky. you want proof, call Powers and get joes phone number, give him a call then get me on a 3 party line. or tell him to meet me in the chat room or post a thread denying my experience with his sorry ass.
when you say "some supposed unpublisized shady betting club that lacks documented proof of its ever existing" is to more or less give the impression that because this was to small an event to be publisized and without documentation that Ive just supposed the whole thing, slandering a man for no reason. other then that, yeah I guess your right that I aint got no proof.
but that dont change the fact. it sure looks to me like ol joe weiss is still playen the same old game he was playen years and years back ago.
musta lost his shorts in the water again. so josie I'll just be asayin this to ya and that is, see ya, wouldnt wanna be ya. hehaw