View Full Version : President Bush and Sen. Kennedy on the same page!
so.cal.fan
03-27-2006, 10:22 AM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12034586/
<Employers and immigration advocates prefer a bill drafted by Sens. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., that would allow illegal immigrants to become eligible for permanent residency after working for six years>.
President Bush is far more liberal than most of our liberal friends on this board give him credit for.... :lol:
twindouble
03-27-2006, 10:27 AM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12034586/
<Employers and immigration advocates prefer a bill drafted by Sens. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., that would allow illegal immigrants to become eligible for permanent residency after working for six years>.
President Bush is far more liberal than most of our liberal friends on this board give him credit for.... :lol:
This is what I had to say on the subject on another thread, thanks for posting this one.
The interesting thing I only recently found out was the number illegal Irish that have been here right along, to tune of 50,000 or more. This is a tough problem to solve for a nation that was built on immigration and breaking the laws. This isn't just a Mexican problem.
The only thing I can come up with is give those that are here the means to become legit, if they don't register round them up and send them home, at the same time secure our borders. You'll find those that don't register are low life criminals anyway. Regardless of what's done we have to find out who's who for our national security. Heck if it wasn't for illegal Chinese, it would have taken another 100 years to lay track across this country. Plus historically the rich and powerful built their fortunes by breaking the laws, Joe Kennedy was a bootlegger and his son got to president by paying off the mob. So it's a joke when anyone takes the high ground and says this is a country laws that should be inforced. We ignored the problem for years never inforcing those laws because it was cheep slave labor. Freaking hypocrites!
T.D.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12034586/
<Employers and immigration advocates prefer a bill drafted by Sens. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., that would allow illegal immigrants to become eligible for permanent residency after working for six years>.
President Bush is far more liberal than most of our liberal friends on this board give him credit for.... :lol:
Both are useless idiots, just in different ways.
Throw in McCain and you have the Three Stooges of politics - not a brain betweent the three of them, all scounderals and enemies of this country.
so.cal.fan
03-27-2006, 01:42 PM
I wish the Democrats would run Sen. Joe Lieberman.
He probably represents the vast majority of voters.
In 2004, they were hijacked by a fringe group who represents less than 10% of the voters, attached their candidate to a major political party (Dems) and then wondered why they lost!
Put up a moderate/conservative Democratic candidate and they get my vote back!
Ponyplayr
03-27-2006, 03:17 PM
[ would allow illegal immigrants to become eligible for permanent residency after working for six years>.
President Bush is far more liberal than most of our liberal friends on this board give him credit for.... :lol:[/QUOTE]
But...But.. it's against the law to hire them,or is it?
Would this law allow employers to hire them,without fear of criminal charges,fines?
They won't search for Illegall Border Jumpers,but every summer the helicoptersare are flying all over my county looking for Pot Plants...Hmmmm maybe I should hire a few to stand next to my plants.
How's this for a fair way to decide which illegals get to stay and which ones get deported?
Produce your INCOME TAX records for the number of years you have been here - if you filed every year, you get to stay. If not, you either get arrested or deported.
As a citizen, I would be arrested if I did not file, so this has to a fair thing - why would anyone give an illegal SOB more rights than a tax paying citizen?
doophus
03-27-2006, 06:32 PM
How's this for a fair way to decide which illegals get to stay and which ones get deported?
Produce your INCOME TAX records for the number of years you have been here - if you filed every year, you get to stay. If not, you either get arrested or deported.
As a citizen, I would be arrested if I did not file, so this has to a fair thing - why would anyone give an illegal SOB more rights than a tax paying citizen?Tom, the best suggestion that I've heard yet and I know your requirement of "filed every year" is stated above. If a requirement to file every year is not further spelled out as each and every year as required by current law, the tax preparers will be working 24/7 filing back taxes for illegals.
Not long ago a crew of Hispanic workers were enroute back to Mexico from their workplace in North Carolina. Some law enforcement person stopped them, determined that they were illegals, searched the vehicle and found something like $350K in the vehicle but no drugs or evidence of drugs. They claimed it was from work they performed over the past (4) yrs in N. Carolina, but they couldn't prove it. The $$$$$'s were confiscated.
DJofSD
03-27-2006, 07:17 PM
I'm all for letting any illegal (Mexican, Irish, Chinese, etc.) stay as long as those males between 18 and 36 years of age complete 2 years service in the armed services -- no Peace Corp or that other organization that Clinton started.
WE have a group of illegals arrested here recently - selling drugs to school kids. Another one, driving drunk and without a license (see what I mean about why should expect them to obey ANY laws?) struck and killed a young mother of a three year old. I hold Bush personally responsible for her death. I am confident this POS will burn in HELL for his actions.
Lefty
03-29-2006, 02:15 AM
Tom, everything didn't start with Bush. Those illegals prob here long before this admin. BTW, it's in this admin that we are starting to have meaningful discussions and agreement that the illigal immigration is a big big prob. This Pres takes on big issues(regardless whether you like his solutions) and he gets slammed for it. I'm sick of it!
JustRalph
03-29-2006, 08:22 AM
I was arresting Illegals in the 80's in California. In the 90's in Ohio. You call immigration back then and they laughed at you............
who is laughing now? :bang:
Tom, everything didn't start with Bush. Those illegals prob here long before this admin. BTW, it's in this admin that we are starting to have meaningful discussions and agreement that the illigal immigration is a big big prob. This Pres takes on big issues(regardless whether you like his solutions) and he gets slammed for it. I'm sick of it!
Up to 20 million illegals here and we are STARTING to have meanigful dicussions?
Post 9-11, Lefty - a phrase you have used. You sae no issue with complelty ignoring our borders, which is what is happening right now. Our troops would be of better use at home, on the border than we will ever do in Iraq - a nice try but a failed experiment.
We tried Bush's guest worker program back in 1986 - when we have under 2 million illegal here. Great plan, eh? What's Bush shooting for, 40 millioiin. Did someone tell him we need a "brazillian" workers in this country!
Lefty
03-29-2006, 11:28 AM
JR, I didn't say it was no issue completely guarding our borders. I said it was an OLD issue and this prob just didn't popup with the current Pres. It's an old problem, and yes, i've heard more dissent from the pipples and more discussion in Congress than i've ever heard before. It's a problem that's come to its boiling point but it didn't just start with Bush and i'm tired of all the ills of the world beeing laid at his doorstep.
twindouble
03-29-2006, 11:43 AM
JR, I didn't say it was no issue completely guarding our borders. I said it was an OLD issue and this prob just didn't popup with the current Pres. It's an old problem, and yes, i've heard more dissent from the pipples and more discussion in Congress than i've ever heard before. It's a problem that's come to its boiling point but it didn't just start with Bush and i'm tired of all the ills of the world beeing laid at his doorstep.
That's right Lefty, I can't believe what people ignore just to support an arguement with little or no truth to it.
T.D.
Bush has been in office for how many years?
How many years sicne 9-11?
You are far to defensive, Lefty - no one said Bush started this problem, just that he has failed to properly address it in over 5 years. Is this something you think he should do his last month in office?
Perhaps the little dancing boy should spend less time at fund raisers and more time in the oval office - actually being president. His record is unaccpetable and his solution - guest workers- is so stupid it is laughable. Lefy, how many of those half million unwashed occupiers marhcing in LA do you think are prepared to ever go back home? Bush's policy is a proven loser already - just like Bush.
While he plays nation builder in Iraq, this one - the one he is paid to protect, has been conquered by Mexico and occuupied. This is the first time since the Revolutionary War that outside countries are controlling our shores. And it suck. We lsot the war with Mexico.......under Bush's watch.
Lefty
03-29-2006, 07:34 PM
Tom, and you are far too quick to say things are Bush's fault. He has proffered solutions to SS and the illegal immigration probs and Dems and self-serving Repubs have fght him tooth and nail. He is fighting the terroriosts has kept the economy going and now with all the barriers put in his way he is supposed to solve this many faceted prob of illegal immigrants? What's the Dems plan? Just to sit bk and blame Bush for anything and everything and you, are agreeing with those who have no plan of their own for anything. This immigrationn prob is complex as hell and no one human being can begin to solve it in a mere 8 yrs.
I guess I have a higher expectation for someone who wants to be president. He knew what he was getting into when he ran. Now, if he were to cut back on acations, fund raisers, and barnstorming to justify his actions, he just might have a little more time to address real problems.
Lefy, the border security issue is a pretty easy solution....anyone with a high school education (oops! that might be it :lol: ) could come up with a better idea than dancing georgie's proven failure approach. It ain't rocket science.
Lefty
03-29-2006, 08:13 PM
Tom, Really? Don't see the Dems coming up with it, do you? It's a dicey prob. Bush can't do it by himself. Congress has to help and the help isn't there. The dems want the [prob to continue so the mexican vote will be there in greater numbers for them. The Repubs have to come up with a solution the Mexicans will accept or forget gettin any Repubs getting elected and here comes the tax raises and more Mexicans coming in. If only solutions were as simplistic as you perceive them to be...
DJofSD
03-29-2006, 08:55 PM
Tom, and you are far too quick to say things are Bush's fault.
No one is saying Bush caused the problem.
There are sins of comission and there are sins of omission.
What Tom and I and lots of other are saying is he hasn't done anything of substance to address the problems. This is the sin of omission. And it is tantamount to the behavior of enablers.
I'm very interested to see what the press reports about the meeting in Cancun. I suspect it will be under reported and over hyped.
46zilzal
03-29-2006, 09:05 PM
we know Lefty, since TIME BEGAN, that nothing is caused by anyone but those damn dems and libs
All that is needed to cut illegal immigration by more than 90% is to enforce the laws already on the books, and to stop roadblocking the states that area trying and getting no help at all from the feds. That is 100% within Bush's capability today. He doesn't need to get anyone's permission or approval. The mexican army is continually crossing the border and interfering with local authorites - that is more that we had on Iraq to send in troops - and his not doing this is treason.
95% of all murder indictments in LA are illegal aliens.
65 billion a year on just welfare.
Sure could fill the SS hole with that infusion every year, couldn't we?
existing money, no new programs needed. Just do the job we elected him to do.
Yup.
These are good people here to work.
Listen to the Glenn Beck show Thursday or look back couple months in the magazine he keeps promoting-Fusion?
He is going to share much of the research they did on what illegal immigration costs us.
we know Lefty, since TIME BEGAN, that nothing is caused by anyone but those damn dems and libs
Of all the poeple here, YOU are the last one to throw stones.
You invented the blind allegience lemming thing. At least Lefty has the courage to live in the country he defends. While you......absent, awol, mia, whatever, sitting out there casting stones from afar.
Tsk tsk.
Ponyplayr
03-29-2006, 10:24 PM
Lefty...The Republicans have control of the House,Senate,and the White House.
They do not need the Dem's, so why blame them.
If George is the War Pres...Why wont he defend the Border?
Why has the Republican Party lost all respect for the rule of law?
You can't blame the Dem's for that.
Lefty
03-29-2006, 10:24 PM
tom, yes, we know what is needed. But try and get it done; ah that's the rub. Remember in CA a few yrs ago they tried to cut services for illegals. Couldn't get it done. Bush does not have autonomy. Dj, Bush has made several proposals. The party that has no ideas shot them dn.
46, yes they are a great source of our problems in every matter. They want income redistibution. They won't let us drill for oil in our own country, they shoot dn any notion of fixing SS. They will block any attempt to build a fence or cut services to the illegals. Yes, the dem/libs are a great source of peobs and skillfull at keeping probs intact to blame repubs for.
Lefty
03-29-2006, 10:28 PM
pony, ahh yes, repubs has control but Bush does not. Moderate Repubs as bad as the damn Dems. You think those 11 million illegals arrived in last 8 yrs?
Tell you what, you guys give solutions to the prob and stand bk as others on this board shoot them dn. A little microcosm as to what the Pres faces, if you will.
Bush need congress to changes the laws, he doens't need them to enforce the existing laws and defend the border - that is 100% his domain. In fact, Congress no say whatsover in enforce existing border laws. It is Bush alone. cngress wasnot involved when Lyndon Jaohnson called the Natinal Guard to enforce desgregation fo southern schools. He - a dem - saw a gross injustice and stepped up to the plate. It was not a poplar descion, but as president, he knew it was his obligation to act. So long ago, it was clear to presidents when to stop damn fool politicin' and start acting responsible. Hello?
so.cal.fan
03-29-2006, 10:34 PM
California has been run by Democrats for a long time......we are a BLUE STATE, remember?
Gov. Arnold really has little power, and he'll probably be voted out of office.
Democrats are just as non-integrous as Republicans on this issue.
I don't understand, do illegal aliens vote? I know that sounds like a naive question, but remember, I live in California, I would really like to know?
They have fake SS cards, so perhaps they are also registered to vote?
Does anyone know?
Lefty
03-29-2006, 11:20 PM
Tom, the problem has gotten completely out of hand long before this admin. Bush proposed a guest worker prgm, yet Mexican kids are protesting him! This is NOT a SIMPLE problem. We don't have enough border patrol to keep em out, so a fence is proposed. Think it'll pass? Nope. But don't blame Bush. He does need Congress. He does not have autonomy.
So Cal, the vote in CA to cut off sevices to illegals was long before Arnold. The peple wanted it. It didn't happen.
Some illegals do vote, I blve, but even if they don't they have plenty of Mexican sympathizers who are here legally. You wouldn't think so, but there it is.
DJofSD
03-29-2006, 11:55 PM
socal -- ever hear about motor voter?
DJofSD
03-30-2006, 12:00 AM
Lefty, do you know what's so ironic about the illegal voting by illegal immigrants? According to reports, those Mexican citizens, regardless of their legal status here in the US, by and large, will not vote absentee in the presidental election in Mexico. The ability to vote absentee is new this year for Mexican citizens living abroad.
It boggles the mind how many things Bush cannot do.
And again, a guest worker program is the ulitmare of ignorance - NOBODY is ever going home, so they are not gusets.
Ans stis show the beore Bush back-stabbed the minutemen, illegal crossing dropped at every site they were patroling. And not ao one of them was a president.
Noting about illgal immigration can be achieves until the borders are controlled, and Bush can do this without congress. All he he needs is a set. Fat chance.
The minutemen make this boy look like a fool.
Lefty
03-30-2006, 07:27 PM
Tom, see what I mean? He offers a solution but you don't like it, so you say he's doing nothing. BTW, there was nothing done in last admin about the prob. but the admin that puts it on the table and offers solutions gets the heat.
As long as we are divided and do not stand behind this Pres. nothing is solved.
Tom, see what I mean? He offers a solution but you don't like it, so you say he's doing nothing. BTW, there was nothing done in last admin about the prob. but the admin that puts it on the table and offers solutions gets the heat.
As long as we are divided and do not stand behind this Pres. nothing is solved.
???? What solution? He has not offered any solution to the open borders.
I get the feeling I am talking to Ljb - please enlighten me - what is Bush' plan to
stop the unchecked flow of illegals into this country? Without spin, please.
Lefty
03-30-2006, 10:37 PM
Well you don't like the guest worker plan for starters. Isn't there a proposal to put up a fence and hire 2000 more border patrol? What did Clinton do? NOTHING. This Repub Congress and Bush have started addressing a prob that hasn't been addressed in yrs. Yet you want him to do it your way, you and others all with diff ideas. And there's enough dems and so called repub moderates to shoot dn any plan just like they shot down SS. Put the blame where it belongs, or vote for the dems and see what ya get. There's protests all over the country so something is being proposed or the mexicanswouldn't be protesting, would they?
DJofSD
03-30-2006, 10:59 PM
Let's be real clear about this. A guest worker program is just another name for amnesty.
THAT IS NOT A SOLUTION TO STEM THE TIDAL WAVE OF ILLEGAL MIGRANTS.
Build the fence first. Then we can entertain other changes to the current migration laws and policies.
Lefty
03-30-2006, 11:03 PM
DJ, well there's bills on the table but the dems keep fiddling with them to screw them up. So don't be blaming Bush and the Repubs for a mess that's going on for yrs and the dems don't want solved. That's all i'm saying and I tire of having to keep repeating it.
Spiin spin spin. The libs could take lessons from you.
OK, here is what hte moron could do:
1. STOP encouraging the mexican governement placing ads in our newspapers to stir up trouble - CLinton could not do this since only Bush was in office when they apppeared. Woudl Bush need congressional authority to stand up for America in words?
2. While he is on yet another vacation in CAncun, under the guise of a tri-lateral conferences, could the dancing punk mention to Fox that he causing the USA problems by not dealing withi the borders on his side? Could he mention, as long he is there on our tax dollars, and without a new law, that we frown upon the mexican army crossing the border and threatening legal local authorites trying to stop durg runners?
3. He could, without a new law, not call the minutemen vigilantede and villify them for doing a valued, and effective job, until HE interfered with them. Facts are, illegal crossing decreased wherever they set up checkpoints. Clinton could not do this since the minutemen were not around back then.
4. Could Bush, without congressional approval, provide needed help to local authories trying to protect their borders by cutting red tape, and not tying their hands?
5. Could Bush, without congressional approaval assign national guard troops to help shore up the main border crossings?
The illegal flow could be timmed to next to nothing in less than 30 days with no new laws or approvals needed. A guest worker program does not address the open border. Period.
Lefty, there is far more a threat to this country along the southern border than Iraq ever posed, and Bush would not even have to lie about conditions there to justify action as he did for Iraq. Perhaps is Fox had hreatened his daddy instead of SH we would be getting some action.
DJofSD
03-30-2006, 11:26 PM
I don't give a fat rat's behind about what bills are being considered. They're all tweakers.
Use the laws that are already inplace. Have the various agencies do the job they're suppose to be doing and I'm paying a healthy chunk of change every year to pay for.
As far as I'm concerned this problem is just another example of what happens when you get soft on crime -- of any type. Call me a hard-ass, a hawk, a heartless bastard, I don't care. We can not survive when there are two sets of rules: one set for those that submit themselves to the rule of law and another set that gives away the store to those that hold themselves above the law and those that are enabling them to wave their private parts at the first group-- and get away with it!
History pop quiz: who said 'a nation divided can not stand'?
Lefty
03-30-2006, 11:41 PM
hey guys, it's all about bashing Bush and you will not be dissuaded in your task. Screw it. This is the only admin that's trying to do something about the prob but yet you find fault. Like I say, try to solve a prob and get the heat; it was ever thus.
Lefty
03-30-2006, 11:53 PM
You know, if the solutions to the prob were as simplistic as you think they are it would be great. But they're not or they would have been done. Try to quit the knee-jerk thinking and give it more thght.
You know, if the solutions to the prob were as simplistic as you think they are it would be great. But they're not or they would have been done. Try to quit the knee-jerk thinking and give it more thght.
Knee jerking?
I resent that. What of any the the four things I listed are knee jerking?
And while we are on the topic of knee jerking, we are billions of dollars in debt and have well over 2,000 dead soliers due to Bush's knee jerking in Iraq.
Protecting the borders from unchecked illegal invasion by poeple spreading disease and killing our economy is knee jerking? What a dope I am - expecting the president to stand up for America? I gotta be nuts!
Bush bashing, no way Jose - Bush ass- kissing! I gave you a lot more credit than that. Was I ever wrong. You sound just like him - anyone who disagrees with him is wrong. Nero fiddled while rome burned.
Knee jerking? That is so absurd. You have been arguing this point all week ans still have not offered on single thing Bush has suggested to stop the bleeding, yet you accuse us of not getting things done becase we don't support Bush? Support what? He has offered NOTHING to support - he has side stepped the border issue just like you have. Just like when Ljb has nothing to offer. Cant' tell you two apart anymore. Sad.
Lefty
03-31-2006, 12:15 AM
Tom, if ya want to bring up lbj, i bet he's enjoying your posts more than mine.
It's a complex prob. Why can't you see that? We put the Nat'l Guard on the borders. Know what happens? The left paints the repubs as racists. The mexicans, legal and illegal demostrate even more. They all vote for dems next election. The dems withdraw the guard. Problem NOT solved.
We take away services and a liberal court declares it unconstitutional. Problem not solved.
Like it or not we must give some sort of amnesty to those that are here with non criminal records or we will be spinning our wheels until we lose the country. Build the fence, give some sort of amnesty, guest worker plan, enact some laws the mexicans will swallow. It's the only way and believe me I regret having to come to that conclusion. I'd like to put the Nat'l Guard on the border, take away all services, but as a practical matter it won't work.
And to say Bush is encouraging those Mexican ads in the NY liberal Times is crazy. Chastize the Times for taking them but don't blame Bush for it.
DJofSD
03-31-2006, 01:00 AM
The time to equivocate, compromise, posture and wring your hands is behind us. It's exactly this lack of action that's put the US into the situation it finds itself in now. No balls, no testosterone.
Get over it. There's no perfect solution. If you're going to make an omellete you have to break some eggs. I hate this 'why can't we all get along' attitude. Start some place other than the gutless Congress. Do something other than talking about it.
You seem to be more worried about the law breakers than any one else. Screw them. I'm tired of being pissed on.
Lefty
03-31-2006, 01:13 AM
DJ, if the solution was simple, as you and Tom say, it would be done. You're the guys that need to get over it. I hate comprimise, who doesn't but this constant head banging getting us nowhere. Some comprimise has to be done, like it or not. Haven't you guys been watching the news. Mexicans demonstrations everywhere. We missed the boat on the hardline a longtime ago. Now we must walk a fine line. Your simple solutions will not work in the realworld. We must face reality.
DJofSD
03-31-2006, 08:18 AM
Haven't you guys been watching the news. Mexicans demonstrations everywhere.
Yes, I have. And there's been plenty of it here in San Diego.
What you refer to as simple solutions are not meant to be total solutions. Just a start.
What compromise? If anything, it's compromise that's gotten us (and the US) into this mess. My position is no more compromise. Obey the law, enforce them and honor the oath of office that every politican takes to obey and uphold the constitution. If you feel this is wholy impossible then we might as well admit the anarchist have won.
lsbets
03-31-2006, 08:39 AM
The demonstrations are a huge mistake on the part of opponents of reform, and I really hope that everyone is letting their elected officials know how they feel about people protesting under a foreign flag in our nation, and in some cases removing the American flag from public places and raising a foreign flag.
Now before anyone says I'm just a knee jerk deport em all type, I'm not. I think we need some kind of worker program, because economically we need the labor. I worked in housing construction for a while after I first left active duty - the Mexicans hired by the sub contractors were paid up to $20 an hour and worked dawn till dusk. When it came time to hire new subs, we couldn't find American workers. I'm not talking about $20 a day, a lot of these guys fill a need and get paid relatively well. The going rate for a housekeeper around me is $70 a day. You need work done at your ranch? It going to cost you 70 to 100 a day to hire a guy from the gas station down the street. And as opposed the the characterization on here a few days ago of Mexicans as lazy criminals, my personal experience has been they work a hell of a lot harder than most Americans. Given the choice in construction of hiring an American and a Mexican for the same wage, I know for a fact most superintendants would hire the Mexican. I don't know what the right program is, but I know we need one. If we bring people out of the underground economy and onto the tax rolls, that has enormous benefit towards shoring up the social security system that will be strained by our declining birth rate over the last 50 years.
There are major problems with having an illegal underclass in our country. One, it creates a group of people who are easily exploitable and are easy victims of crime. The ones who pray on them know they don't feel like they can go to the police for help, so they are seen as easy victims, just like every other imigrant group was at one point or another. By putting some kind of program in place, crime will be reduced.
We need to control the borders, no doubt about it, but our Canadian border is just as likely, if not more likely, a crossing point for terrorists than our Mexican border. Even though its porous, it still gets plenty of attention. Why take the chance? Come from the north.
But these demonstrations have really pissed me off. One thing we need to do right away is make English the official language, and stop printing everything in 3 or 4 different languages. You want a driver's license? Learn English. You want to vote? Learn English. If you don't want to learn English, than you really don't want to be an American, so I say get out.
Am I somewhere in the middle? I guess so. But I am so sick of hearng the absolute black and white statements from both sides on this issue. Its boring and dishonest.
GaryG
03-31-2006, 09:11 AM
But these demonstrations have really pissed me off. One thing we need to do right away is make English the official language, and stop printing everything in 3 or 4 different languages. You want a driver's license? Learn English. You want to vote? Learn English. If you don't want to learn English, than you really don't want to be an American, so I say get out.This is at the core of the problem. As you well know living in Texas there are 2nd, 3rd and 4th generations born here and none of them speak English. It is apparently a matter of pride, but the cost of it is that they can only work in menial jobs or with other Mexicans. You don't see this with Asian immigrants as, almost without exception, they learn English immediately. What these people want is a chunk of Mexico in the US. I don't see how these demonstrations can avoid causing a backlash of sentiment against them. Knee is starting to jerk again so that is all.
ls,
I agree it is a coplex problem, but Lefty cannot entertain the idea that we tackel it is small increments. The only first step that makes any sense at all is to secure theoborders. Lefty thinks this is bad because of the political fallout, yet invading a foreign country, losing over 2,000 MAericna lives and spending billions of dollars in the process was just fine, at the drop of a hat. Knee jerk?
The number of illegal here is more likely closer to 20 million than 11, but even 11 is far too many. They are bringing back diseases long since absent on our lands, and some of them are new strains, resistant to vacines. Bush actually has stationed DOH people in Mexico fo give vaccines to illegasl on thier way here! If this isn't encouraging illegal immigration I don't know what is.
We have to address the entire problem, but not all at once, and nothing makes any sense until we secure the borders, somehting which ncan be done existing laws and a president a set of balls, and who is willoing to act in the interest of our nation rather than his own special interests. This POS has sold out America and that is treason. Perioind. I cannot and will not suipport this
thief and liar on ANY postions ever again. Bush is bad for America.
I get so sick of hearing this bullcrap about they are here to do the jobs Americans will not do. American will do ANY job if they are paid fair. Enter Bush's owners - businuess interests who control the governement.
After we stop the river illegals, we can look at fair solutions to the problem, but just throwing up your hands and saying it can't be down is defeatist.
+++++++
The Times should stop taking ads- come on, Lefty - they are a business and you now wnat to impose a double standard on them? It is their RIGHT to accept paid ads, like it or not. Is Bush unable to use common sense?
This is at the core of the problem. As you well know living in Texas there are 2nd, 3rd and 4th generations born here and none of them speak English. It is apparently a matter of pride, but the cost of it is that they can only work in menial jobs or with other Mexicans. You don't see this with Asian immigrants as, almost without exception, they learn English immediately. What these people want is a chunk of Mexico in the US. I don't see how these demonstrations can avoid causing a backlash of sentiment against them. Knee is starting to jerk again so that is all.
April 10 has been designated as anoth massive disrespect America day. Let's hope enough real Americans show up to dwarf those numbers. Would be nice see the mexican flag being burned on CNN at diner for a change.
I got two words to Americans on 4/10....AX HANLDES. :mad:
GaryG
03-31-2006, 11:33 AM
April 10 has been designated as anoth massive disrespect America day. Let's hope enough real Americans show up to dwarf those numbers. Would be nice see the mexican flag being burned on CNN at diner for a change.
I got two words to Americans on 4/10....AX HANLDES. :mad:Tom, I am fired up.....ax handle in hand and Proudly American. I think the nearest protest is probably Atlanta but that is an easy drive! :jump: :jump:
skate
03-31-2006, 11:35 AM
oh ya,ok fine, secure the boarders (just how the hell you gonna do this is the question) but ok, spend whatever you have to put up a 50' wall.
it would come down to, who's quicker, the USA putting up walls OR the little diggers, digging under the wall.
naa... you gotta go to the employer and you let the system correct itself.
employers have been showing their greed for too too loooonnng....
nail the suckers. wont happen, but that's me.
the skate
skate
03-31-2006, 11:48 AM
this problem has been going on for at least 25 years that i know of, that ALONE should give a little hint, since congress makes ALL law, that "THIS IS NOT" a current problem.
gess, you got somebody on here saying something about closing off the advertising that foreigners are doing. can't you follow up with this thought all by yourself? gees
this is the same old mind set that's been happening, and preventing the gain of an upper hand in "the war".
hey, we'll do it all,...
skater
skate
03-31-2006, 11:56 AM
where were you "American heroes", when the Americam truck driver needed YOU?
not born yet fine...
you really want to know, really serious or blowing steam about being upset with others (foreigners) taking your jobs, gees just look at a little history, start with teachers and truck drivers.
tell me about it
skate do in fine
Lefty
03-31-2006, 11:58 AM
Tom, you misunderstand me, I think securing the borders would be great. But how do ya do it as Skate said. I'm for the fence and more border patrol. But like it or not, we have to deal with the 11 million or so already here. We can't deport em all and we can't arrest em all. This battle has been lost. We have to figure out a way to comprimise here or we will lose the war.
But my main thrust was that this admin is the admin that is trying to deal with this prob. The dems never did and when repubs try, they get the flack.
And it's just crazy.
JustRalph
03-31-2006, 12:13 PM
Build the wall.......... I want the wall first........then we can work on the problem with those that are already here.............
maybe we could "toss them out" over the wall.........?
skate
03-31-2006, 12:16 PM
there it is again. see Tom, you gotta step outta dat box buddy.
and maybe, just maybe take some time, slow down a little and give us an answer to this fact. i'm attacking your insinuation, if i copy correctly, that you think (along with a media) that the republicans receive more money from Big Busness than the democrats receive from big busness.
and that the dems are in a less financial situation (poor, hard working) than the republicans.
Then , please tell us how come the democrats received More Money(donations) during the past presidential election than did the republicans.
least we forget, more people were regestered republicans, yet as far as my records (fed.) the democrats took in More Money that did the republicans.
hey, i don't have a side, gave that up, but you gotta look at the greater picture.
or else, you really don't know where you are or where you are going, simple.
Tom, I am fired up.....ax handle in hand and Proudly American. I think the nearest protest is probably Atlanta but that is an easy drive! :jump: :jump:
I wonder if the local jail will release the three that have been sellin g drugs to school kids here and the one that hit and ru killed a young mother recently.
After all, they area part of the 11 million that congress wants to give amnesty.
Build the wall.......... I want the wall first........then we can work on the problem with those that are already here.............
maybe we could "toss them out" over the wall.........?
......or line them up against it.
Walls, mine fileds ( with English only warnings....;) ) attack dogs, drones (armed) barbed wire....whatever it takes. Fact of life.
Go try to sneak into N Korea or China.
When firemen arrive at a fire, they hook up the hoses first, then worry about dosing the flames. Bush's hose is lying on the ground.
Tom, you misunderstand me, I think securing the borders would be great. But how do ya do it as Skate said. I'm for the fence and more border patrol. But like it or not, we have to deal with the 11 million or so already here. We can't deport em all and we can't arrest em all. This battle has been lost. We have to figure out a way to comprimise here or we will lose the war.
But my main thrust was that this admin is the admin that is trying to deal with this prob. The dems never did and when repubs try, they get the flack.
And it's just crazy.
Hey, we're OK, Lefty, we just disagree on this issue.
I'd still take you over Ljb anyday! :jump:
JustRalph
03-31-2006, 09:14 PM
I wonder if the local jail will release the three that have been sellin g drugs to school kids here and the one that hit and ru killed a young mother recently.
After all, they area part of the 11 million that congress wants to give amnesty.
try this link Tom.....
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12100548/from/RS.3/
http://images.ibsys.com/2006/0331/8391194_320X240.jpg
Ralph, tha might explain the reson the catholic church is encouraing illegal immigration - they need to replace al lthe child molestors they lost recently!
Right after we get that wall build, be gotta start making all churches pay their full share of taxes - that should cover the cost.
DrugSalvastore
04-04-2006, 05:14 AM
This whole thing is pretty embarrassing.
We BADLY need to crack down on Illegals---those who hire them, those who help them come here, and those that get caught here.
We also need to get tough (tough in a smart way---not tough in a stupid way like this President is known for) with the Mexican govt about what is going on.
I don't care if they are Mexican, Italian, Irish, or anything else--as long as they are not drop dead gorgeous Swedish blondes, who are attracted to young handicappers...I'm not in favor of them being here.
This guest worker program is nonsense. We do not need to import poverty into this country---at the expense of hard working and struggling legal American citizens. It's really as simple as that.
I feel bad for the guys who want to come here and work to help improve their own life and their families life...and I'm sure the majority of them do...but that's just to bad.
DJofSD
04-04-2006, 08:51 AM
This guest worker program is nonsense.
Same as the thief that sits at your dining room table then you end up calling his a dinner guest.
twindouble
04-04-2006, 09:12 AM
Castro was no dummy, he unloaded his prisons and sent them here. The liberals greeted them with open arms, like they are today. Miami turned into the crime city of the century. How soon we forget.
T.D.
Castro was no dummy, he unloaded his prisons and sent them here. The liberals greeted them with open arms, like they are today. Miami turned into the crime city of the century. How soon we forget.
T.D.
Same thing with the USSR - when we petitioned them to free Jews, they let the scum of the earth out and sent to to NYC where they put the mafia to shame.
I think it has been many years since any immigrants, legal or illegal have really contirbuted much to this country.
Quesiton...why do we need any new people at all? We got a shortage?
Pay realistic wages and all jobs will get done here. So we pay $4 a head of lettuce. I have no problem with that.
Businesses that hire illegals should be taken away from the owners, like cars used in drug deal.
But since it is big buisness that Bush represents, fat chance of anything getting done that matters.
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