Poll: Do you think Secrertariat Belmont...

[Citation33]

record time will ever be beat?

[HolyBull29]

Someone running the 1 1/2 Belmont Stakes in like 2:23. No way!

[witchdoctor]

It may be broken but probably not in my lifetime.

[ceejay]

Anyone know what's the 2nd fastest 12F time-- at Belmont or anywhere-- on the dirt?

[shanta]

record time will ever be beat?

It will and it will be "The Green Monkey" that does it. ;)

Richie

[Dr. Carter]

It will and it will be "The Green Monkey" that does it. ;)

Richie


Thats funny !!!

[kenwoodallpromos]

I just wanted to be the only one to say this year!
Next Trieste is running tommorrow at GGF and I think he has a shot. Wire-to-wire route by 11 lengths last race.

[Overlay]

I would have to say "No" based on a few factors:

1) the relative infrequency with which the distance is run on dirt;
2) the taxing nature of the distance itself (as compared to a shorter distance), which makes it more unlikely to me that the record will be broken, even if more races were run at 1-1/2 miles;
2) the advantage Secretariat had of running on a track which was that exact distance in circumference, as opposed to any other layout that might entail more turns or unusual contours that would add to time;
3) the fact that world distance records usually progress in small increments, but Secretariat broke the existing record at the time by two and three-fifths seconds;
4) the fact that the best time in the Belmont (with young horses in peak condition) since 1973 has been 2:26 (which is not even close, relatively speaking), whereas the longest length of time that elapsed between stakes records being set prior to Secretariat was the sixteen years between Gallant Man in 1957 and Secretariat himself in 1973.

But then, again, I didn't think Bob Beamon's long jump would ever be equalled either, considering the degree to which he broke the previous record, and the favorable high-altitude conditions under which he set his record in Mexico City. So I could be wrong.

[46zilzal]

look at these furlongs and think of ANY OTHER horse that could come close (in 5ths not 10ths)

1) 12.1
2) 11.2
3) 11.2
4) 11.1
5) 12
6) 11.3
7) 12.1
8) 12.1
9) 12
10) 12.4
11) 12.1
12) 12.4

25 final fraction ON THE PACE, not too many sprinters do that

[banacek]

25 final fraction ON THE PACE, not too many sprinters do that

Yeah, but you know what they say about a horse with an easy lead!:)

Seriously, I've got the race on tape and watch it every few months. And I think the 1/4 and 1/2 (on the lead) were like 46 1/5 and 109 4/5 with Sham pushing him all the way. Every time I watch it I expect him to fall apart. There is no way he couldn't.

And then every once in a while I have a bet on a race and my horse goes to the lead with a stupidly fast pace. Secretariat's Belmont always gives me a smidgeon of hope that the horse won't collapse!

[46zilzal]

Anyone know what's the 2nd fastest 12F time-- at Belmont or anywhere-- on the dirt?
EASY GOER 2nd fastest 2:26 and A.P Indy I think

[Citation33]

Yeah I dont know if that will ever be beat. not only did he do 2:24 but he did it with ease. That is a world record,no one in the world has even touched it since him

[46zilzal]

they have on the lawn. Anita's record is crazy.

[JPinMaryland]

overlay: what did you mean the longest elapsed time between records is 16 years? Didnt Decidely break WHirlaway's 2:01 Ky dby? That is like 21 years between records (1941-1962) or maybe I am missing one??

[Overlay]

overlay: what did you mean the longest elapsed time between records is 16 years? Didnt Decidely break WHirlaway's 2:01 Ky dby? That is like 21 years between records (1941-1962) or maybe I am missing one??

I was referring specifically and solely to the stakes record for the Belmont (because of its mile-and-a-half distance), rather than the Triple Crown races in general. (Sorry if I wasn't sufficiently clear on that.)

[Overlay]

they have on the lawn. Anita's record is crazy.

That's 2:22 and 4/5 by Hawkster in 1989 in the Oak Tree Invitational, carrying 121 pounds. According to the latest information I could find, the Santa Anita turf course was the site of current world-record clockings for 1-1/8 miles (1:43.92), 1-1/4 miles (1:57-2/5), and 1-1/2 miles. But isn't that attributable to the downhill portion of the turf course (if I'm correctly recalling Santa Anita's layout and contours)?

[Hosshead]

That's 2:22 and 4/5 by Hawkster in 1989 in the Oak Tree Invitational, carrying 121 pounds. According to the latest information I could find, the Santa Anita turf course was the site of current world-record clockings for 1-1/8 miles (1:43.92), 1-1/4 miles (1:57-2/5), and 1-1/2 miles. But isn't that attributable to the downhill portion of the turf course (if I'm correctly recalling Santa Anita's layout and contours)?Santa Anita's 1 1/8 T is not on the downhill course. However the world record can probably be attributed to the fact it's fairly close to the 210 Freeway.

[GaryG]

they have on the lawn. Anita's record is crazy.None of the SA turf records for 10f and over are "official" as the course is partially downhill.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Belmont time, 1970= 2:34; 1971= 2:30; 1972= 2:28; 1973= 2:24
They might beat it if they speed up the track enough!!
BTW- most of Colonial's dirt records are from Sept 1997; most of their turf records from the same meet in 1998!
TC history, stats:
http://horseracing.about.com/od/history/

[Citation33]

They have sped up that track on Belmont Stakes day. Horses have run extremely fast times on Belmont day and I think Rock and Roll might have beaten a track record on belmont day in 1998,but even though they do speed up the track on stakes day,no one has gotten within two seconds of the record. They would have to make the track concrete I think.

[46zilzal]

I have a friend who is completely irrational about Secretariat's accomplishments, BUT he did point out that no less than 5 track records were set on that dirt track in 1973.

[classhandicapper]

I have a friend who is completely irrational about Secretariat's accomplishments, BUT he did point out that no less than 5 track records were set on that dirt track in 1973.

Wow. I knew they used to that kind of thing back then, but I didn't realize how extreme it was that day.

[46zilzal]

5 frulongs Raise a Cup June 8th 1973 1:03
6.5 furlongs Cohasset Tribe May 19th 1973 1:15 1/5
7 furlongs King's Bishop May 19th 1973 1:20 2/5
8 furlongs Stop the Music, Forego, BOTH 1973 1:33 2/5
8.5 Prove Out, Forego September 1973 1:40 2/5
9.0 furlongs Secretariat Sept 15 1973 1:45 2/5
10 furlongs Secretariat June 9 1973 2:24

7 distances SAME YEAR

[classhandicapper]

Here's a question.

Some figure makers say that horses are a lot faster now than back in 1973.

If that's true, why wouldn't someone eventually be able to top 2.24 if the track was just as fast. He wouldn't even have to deliver as awesome a "relative effort".

[46zilzal]

not unless they had a escalator UNDER that track you won't see this one fall for a long time since that distance is rarely run any longer

horses are QUICKER today, not faster

[46zilzal]

I doubt you will ever see this output of energy over that distance, just savour this for a bit: time per furlong
1) 12.1
2) 11.2
3) 11.2
4) 11.1
5) 12
6) 11.3
7) 12.1
8) 12.1
9) 12
10) 12.4
11) 12.1
12) 12.4

[classhandicapper]

Maybe you should adjust those fractions for the speed of the track. Given how fast it looks like the track was that day, that could be close to 1-2 fifths per furlong.

[46zilzal]

Maybe you should adjust those fractions for the speed of the track. Given how fast it looks like the track was that day, that could be close to 1-2 fifths per furlong.
I think you are missing the point: BALANCE is what this shows. Ability to CARRY SPEED. Never saw another like this one NEVER in over 40 years of charting pace

[classhandicapper]

Overrated nag. ;)

Seriously, that was probably the greatest performance ever. :ThmbUp:

[kenwoodallpromos]

A great cardivascular system also!
Do any modern trainers buy horses based on x-rayed heart size or treadmill tests?

[The Judge]

10/14/89 at Santa Anita Hawkster ran a world record time at 1 1/2 on the turf was Hawkster a world class horse on the turf, I don't think so nor have I heard any racing authority suggest that he was, yet it stands (I think). If I remember the race he was lose on the lead and didn't stop. It will happen again some non-discript horse will get lose and there goes the record. I hope it's not for a long long time. Just ran 1 1/2 on turf today and Santa Anita so there was the record in the program.

[LRL Racing]

MRI's are done at a cost of around $1200 each to check heart size. Definetly a must in my opinion.:ThmbUp:

[Cratos]

All records regardless of the sport will eventually be broken. I consider Dr. Fager's Vosburgh win in 1968 with a winning time of 1:20.20 and him toting 139 pounds was a far more difficult task to achieve.

[Citation33]

& records fell that year but 4 out of the 7 records were broken by Secretariat and Forego,two great and fast horses. Wasnt like 7 records were broken by nags that year. Also even if the track was faster that day they speed these tracks up ever big stakes day. Just look at horses times when big stakes races are run inluding the Bel Stakes and breeders cup days. This horse set the record in all three TC races and we are questiong his Belmont race. No horse could ever do that and no horse has done it since even on fast track stakes days

[BIG RED]

BIG RED ran great and made even Man O'War proud (another BIG RED ). Like 46 mentioned, look at each times, incredible. I will say though, would he do it with a truck parked on his back? (wgt.), like the old days. Some were put to that test, and some won, some failed.

[pandy]

If all the tracks go to the Polytrack surface, Secretariat's record will be quite safe.