No WMD's - No Ties to al-Qaida - I have a bridge....

[ecaroff]

Newly released document
links Saddam to al-Qaida
Indicates regime was cooperating with bin Laden group to strike U.S.
Posted: March 17, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com

Among the pre-war documents posted online yesterday by the Pentagon (http://www.wnd.com/redir/r.asp?http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/products-docex.htm#iraq) is a letter from a member of Saddam's intelligence apparatus indicating al-Qaida and the Taliban had a relationship with the regime prior to the 9-11 attacks.

(click following link for rest of story)

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=49297

[ecaroff]

What - no lib comments to this?

[PaceAdvantage]

I had to edit your post....please don't fully reproduce copyrighted material on this website....thanks....

[hcap]

There have been a neverending series of stories issued to shore up the bushies and demonstrate their justifications for war were justified.

First the mushroom clouds. After using this to prompt fears and drive us to war, they were forced to apologize for including in the SOTU the bit about "Saddam sought uranium from Niger". Whether Joe Wilson had been wrong in some statements ain't no biggie, he was correct on the main point. Or the war cabinet wouldn't have backed down. And after all this time don't ya think that if they had anything supporting mushroom clouds, they wouldn't PUBLICLY shout it from the rooftops??? It would be all over the news as the biggist story of the last 3 years and bush would not be at 33-37%

Remember David Kay and Charles Duellfer? Both came to the same conclusions that there were no stockpiles of WMDs. The administration has not pursued this failed argument choosing rather to claim the dog ate my homework excuse-we were victims of B-A-A-A-D intel. It seems to me that IF there were verifiable truth in these new documents they would be all over it as they should have been on any of the previous stories that all started out claiming-here's the "smoking gun"-we WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG!!!!

For instance, the rumour that Saddam had all of his stuff trucked out to Syria and then buried in the Bekaa Valley of Lebanon. Well why didn't they jump on it??

* All the world's intelligence agencies were looking for exactly this kind of transfer and didn't see it, which just shows how sneaky Saddam is and how dangerous he is
* No one's heard a word from all of those truck drivers and porters that had to have been around to move the stuff, which just proves how loyal they are to Saddam and how dangerous he is
* No one's heard a word from the scientists or maintenance personnel who would have been working on the equipment either, which just shows how powerful Saddam's grip on them is even when he was growing fur in a spider hole
* As we all know, Israel wouldn't give a damn if Hezbollah acquired a shitload of chem/bio rockets and so they wouldn't do anything about it or even look into it. It's up to us to act and show leadership!

Remember the story of Jessica Lynch. BS.
Pat Tillman. The Army issued false statements to the nation.
One failed tale after another. Sorry the creditability of the bushies is seriously in doubt

If this new slew of documents is correct, the administration should step up to the plate and support it, and this material should be provided to a bipartisan committee for examination.

The document dump is suspiciously timed to Bush's reaffirmation of the "Bush Doctrine" and the saber-rattling over Iran. Oh yeah. Operation Swarmer, that "massive hunt for insurgents," turns out a PR stunt. Why should we believe these guys? Lie after lie.

My feeling is The Bush administration can't vouch for the documents' authenticity or the accuracy of the translations from Arabic, but they're releasing them anyway in the hopes that -right-wing blogs can help them prove their case that Saddam had WMD and ties to Al Qaeda.

Ecaroff I believe your falling for their ploy :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[hcap]

Another example of backing down. These guys used to do abetter job of "cattapulting the propaganda" as bush put it, when they first started their BS.
They have been way off their game recently.

1-In a New York Times story on new efforts to protect US troops from increasingly sophisiticated and powerful roadside bombs, Negroponte is quoted as telling the Senate Armed Services (February 2) committee that “Tehran has been responsible for at least some of the increasing lethality of anticoalition attacks by providing Shia militants with the capability to build improvised explosive devices with explosively formed projectiles similar to those developed by Iran and Lebanese Hezbollah.”

Now bush quotes Negroponte

2-"Some of the most powerful IEDs we're seeing in Iraq today includes components that came from Iran. Our Director of National Intelligence, John Negroponte, told the Congress, "Tehran has been responsible for at least some of the increasing lethality of anti-coalition attacks by providing Shia militia with the capability to build improvised explosive devises" in Iraq. Coalition forces have seized IEDs and components that were clearly produced in Iran"---
Bush
Office of the Press Secretary
March 13, 2006

3-When Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Peter Pace was asked about the claim with these words, "Do you have proof that they are, indeed, behind this, the government of Iran?", Gen. Pace replied, "I do not, sir." Immediately afterward, Secretary Rumsfeld also failed to endorse the accusation, saying:

"As to equipment, unless you physically see it coming in -- in a government-sponsored vehicle, or with government-sponsored troops, you can't know it. All you know is that you find equipment -- weapons, explosives, whatever -- in a country that came from the neighboring country. With respect to people, it's very difficult to tie a thread precisely to the government of Iran."

Hey Abbotttttt....,
Who's on first?

[Indulto]

Hcap,

Few things start my day off as positively as reading posts of yours like this one. I'm very grateful for voices like yours that are still there to keep things in perspective. Keep up the great work!

Indulto

[Tom]

Me too! :lol: :lol: :lol:


"Whine" - it's not just for breakfast anymore!

[ecaroff]

Hcap,

Few things start my day off as positively as reading posts of yours like this one. I'm very grateful for voices like yours that are still there to keep things in perspective. Keep up the great work!

Indulto

I haven't read hcap's posts in a few weeks and don't intend to anymore. It is impossible to have an intellegent conversation with someone like this as they are blinded by hate. There is simply no logic. His/her negative approch to life is depressing and I don't want any part of it.

[Indulto]

Tom,

Don't feel bad. You're still one of my co-favorite posters.
Your "borrow and spend" equation was sheer genius.

[Tom]

Tom,

Don't feel bad. You're still one of my co-favorite posters.
Your "borrow and spend" equation was sheer genius.

Actually, I think Lous Dobbs used it first, but I loved it.;)

[Indulto]

ecaroff,

Although your comments on the problems that credit cards pose for youthful gamblers showed rare sensitivity on your part, it is precisely the more frequent divisive posts of yours that showcase hcap's value to those not blinded by hate.

[hcap]

ecaroff, Please read my response. In no way have I not responded with logic to your post. Even Tom, who had me on ignore seems to be reading at least some of them. :eek: :eek: :eek:

Thank you Indulto. Some of us have to remember the past. Specifically the stories we were fed.


The Party said that Oceania had never been in alliance with Eurasia. He, Winston Smith, knew that Oceania had been in alliance with Eurasia as short a time as four years ago. But where did that knowledge exist? Only in his consciousness, which in any case must soon be annihilated. And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed -- if all records told the same tale -- then the lie passed into history and became the truth. "Who controls the past," ran the Party slogan, "controls the future: who controls the present controls the past." And yet the past, though of its nature alterable, never had been altered. Whatever was true now was true from everlasting to everlasting. It was quite simple. All that was needed was an unending series of victories over your memory. "Reality control," they called it; in Newspeak, "doublethink."---George Orwell, 1984

The bushies call it "perception management"
Is it that bad yet. Nah, but just keep in line, move on citizen nothin' to see here

[Indulto]

Hcap,

What an appropriate reference! I first read 1984 as a fifth-grader, later again in college, and (of course) once more in ’84. I think I first became aware of the similarities in our own society during the Reagan years as the Soviet Union started to crumble. History was my favorite subject after horse racing.

[46zilzal]

Orwell paints a picture to be aware of constantly.

[46zilzal]

Although your comments on the problems that credit cards pose for youthful gamblers showed rare sensitivity on your part, it is precisely the more frequent divisive posts of yours that showcase hcap's value to those not blinded by hate.
excellently put

[ljb]

The neocons have produced some data which points to wmds in Iraq sometime in the mid ninetys. Based on this logic we should be invading Russia. :D
Like Hcap says, more Bushco bs designed to dupe the less intelligent Americans. Hard to believe there are some here who still fall for this propaganda.

[Indulto]

Originally posted by ljb:

Like Hcap says, more Bushco bs designed to dupe the less intelligent Americans. Hard to believe there are some here who still fall for this propaganda.ljb,

I generally enjoy your posts when I don't have to filter out labeling. Please point me to where hcap referred to non-military intelligence in this thread or have you decided to adopt the style of some of your opponents?

Being duped by the Bush administration isn’t a function of intelligence, but rather degree of distraction, and priorities given life's bountiful pressures.

Your opposition is plenty smart and hardly duped by policies and procedures that work to the self-interest and/or convictions of some of them. There are also intelligent supporters of some administration policies that disagree with others.

[ecaroff]

hcap and others,

I believe we were attacked on 9-11. I believe these people who attacked us were terrorists. I believe that in order to defend our people and our country we MUST go after terrorists no matter where they are. This is NOT political with me. I don't care if the President is Republican or Democrat. Our existence as a people and as a country is at stake. I don't think there is any question that Iraq had WMD's and there was a link between al-Qaida and Iraq. I also don't think there is any question that if the terrorists could cripple our country they would do so. Liberals are so full of hate because they've lost all their power that they will simply do and say anything to undermine our President, our troops and our country. This is WRONG. I support our President (Republican or Democrat). I support our military. I support the people in our country.

[46zilzal]

Liberals are so full of hate because they've lost all their power that they will simply do and say anything to undermine our President, our troops and our country.
got to blame someone

[ecaroff]

got to blame someone

Why? Why does someone have to get blamed? We should all be on the same side.

[Lefty]

Why? Why does someone have to get blamed? We should all be on the same side.

Shamefully, libs are more interested in getting their way than the good of the country. You can see it in the war, the refusal to drill for oil in Anwir and other places here and their refusal to get on board to fix SS. They want to promulgate their brand of socialism and nothing else will suffice.

[Tom]

Why? Why does someone have to get blamed? We should all be on the same side.

That sound pretty scary? We are always right?
Somebody has to take responsiblity for descision made. Bush championed the war, and good or bad, he is the ultimate responsible person. One thing I do not like about this admistration is no one is quick to stand up and take responsibility.
Soldiers went to prison for Abu Grad, and not one Genral or higher up in the militarty got punsihed? Give me a break. This is a chicken-shit military
leadership. At the very least, if anyone got hung out for Abu Grad (which I belve NOBODY should have) it should have been the highest on-site miltarty leader. I don't know this a-holes name, but how could anyone ever serve a coward like this guy? Can you spell fragging?

[lsbets]

Tom - the General in charge of the soldiers at Abu Ghraib was relieved of her command, demoted to Colonel, and forced to retire. And she now tries to blame everyone above her for her failure to control her soldiers.

[Tom]

Tom - the General in charge of the soldiers at Abu Ghraib was relieved of her command, demoted to Colonel, and forced to retire. And she now tries to blame everyone above her for her failure to control her soldiers.

But no jail time for her. That sucks. At least no one will ever have suffer the indignity of her command again.

[JustRalph]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/IraqCoverage/story?id=1734490&page=1

[ljb]

March 23, 2006

BUSH: "First, just if I might correct a misperception, I don't think we ever said -- at least I know I didn't say that there was a direct connection between September the 11th and Saddam Hussein."

"The use of armed forces against Iraq is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations or person who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001." [President George W. Bush, Letter to Congress, 3/21/03]

[Lefty]

lbj, So what? He said after 9-11 his view of the world changed. Saddam was a danger, the world said Saddam was a danger, the dems said even before Bush Saddam was a danger. Bush removed that danger. The fact that terrorists streamed in to keep us from freeing Iraq just confirmed he was right. Iraq is important to terrorists. And it's important we don't let them have it.
Now when will you guys quit beating a dead horse? Are you the same guys i see at the racebook yelling and screaming for some horse that's just galloping at the rear of the pack?

[46zilzal]

we know he walks on water to you

[JustRalph]

we know he walks on water to you

what is the purpose of this post? You just try to dig in whenever you can. You are supposedly "neutral" you aren't neutral at all. You are a flamer. You try to walk the center while leaning so far to the left you can't stand up. What positive contribution do you make when you pull this crap? None. You aren't even in the United States? why do you even care? .......you act as if you have some superior opine to relate. Yet you are a troll/flamer who adds nothing to the community. Go back to the DU. Try to find a board for forlorn left wing Doctor's from Canada or something................

[46zilzal]

never neutral about the dumbest most dangerous ass that ever was in power in my lifetime

[46zilzal]

interesting list of accomplishments
ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:

I attacked two countries. I spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury. I shattered the record for biggest annual deficit in history. I set the economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period. I set the
all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
I am the first president in decades to execute a federal prisoner. I am
the first president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.

changed pollution laws for power and oil companies and made Texas
the most polluted state in the Union. I replaced Los Angeles with Houston as the most smog-ridden city in America. I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas government to the tune of billions in borrowed money. I set the record for most executions by any Governor in American history.
I became President of the United States of America after losing the
popular vote by over 500,000 votes, with the help of my father's
appointments to the Supreme Court.

[Lefty]

interesting list of accomplishments
ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:

I attacked two countries. I spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury. I shattered the record for biggest annual deficit in history. I set the economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period. I set the
all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
I am the first president in decades to execute a federal prisoner. I am
the first president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.

changed pollution laws for power and oil companies and made Texas
the most polluted state in the Union. I replaced Los Angeles with Houston as the most smog-ridden city in America. I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas government to the tune of billions in borrowed money. I set the record for most executions by any Governor in American history.
I became President of the United States of America after losing the
popular vote by over 500,000 votes, with the help of my father's
appointments to the Supreme Court.

I attacked two countries and gave them their first taste of democracy and showed the terrorists we are not be trifled with.

There was no surplus, just a projection of a surplus. and my tax cuts brght more money into the treasury.

I had nothing to do with individuals that can't manage their lives and chose bankruptcy. Those individuals, no doubt were far dn that rd before I became President.
I set the record for best economy in 20 yrs and most new home buyers in history.
President's don't execute anyone. Juries and judges decide that.

The popular vote is not how we decide who is President.
and so forth mr zilly.

[PaceAdvantage]

The stock market....HAH!

Have you looked lately? The DOW is close to setting an ALL TIME HIGH. The S&P has made back much of the losses incurred earlier this decade. The only index that is still down is the NASDAQ, and rightly so, given the irrational exuberance during the Clinton years....

I love it when you guys bring up the stock market....


PS. I see you failed to credit Bush with maintaining such a low unemployment rate...oh yeah...I forgot...those figures don't count during the Bush years...they only counted prior to the year 2000.....

[lsbets]

imade Texas
the most polluted state in the Union.

LOS ANGELES - New Yorkers and Californians breathe the dirtiest air in the nation and face higher cancer risks than the rest of the nation, according to the latest data from the U.S.
Environmental Protection Agency.
ADVERTISEMENT
Texas & Oklahoma - March, News

New Yorkers' risk of developing cancer from air toxins is estimated to be 68 residents per million. In California, the risk is 66 residents per million.

The national average is 41.5 per million, according to the report, which was released in February and based on emissions of 177 chemicals in 1999, the most recent data available.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060322/ap_on_re_us/air_pollution

Don't worry 46, one day you might be right about something. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

Oh shit...wrong again....

Hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good story. That's the CBS and NY Times motto....

[46zilzal]

http://www.mothersforcleanair.org/aqinfo/basics/houston.html

[PaceAdvantage]

http://www.mothersforcleanair.org/aqinfo/basics/houston.html

Now I get it....you're a comedian! That explains a lot....

[Indulto]

Originally posted by Lefty:

I had nothing to do with individuals that can't manage their lives and chose bankruptcy. Those individuals, no doubt were far dn that rd before I became President.Lefty,
You finally said something I agree with.

The bankruptcies weren’t Bush’s fault. That lies with corrupt congressmen, Republican AND Democrat, who allowed the credit card companies to prey on the uncreditworthy by extending them credit at low introductory rates temporarily and then continually raising those rates until many of them could no longer even make minimum payments and then usury came into play and wiped them out.

I [Bush] set the record for best economy in 20 yrs and [b]most new home buyers in history.Back to reality.
Of course new home sales are up. Nobody builds rental properties anymore. Rents with impossibly low vacancy rates are just as high as mortgage payments. Just another way to squeeze low-income working folks into bankruptcy.

Originally posted by PA:

Have you looked lately? The DOW is close to setting an ALL TIME HIGH. The S&P has made back much of the losses incurred earlier this decade.


. . . PS. I see you failed to credit Bush with maintaining such a low unemployment rate...oh yeah...I forgot...those figures don't count during the Bush years...they only counted prior to the year 2000.....PA,
The S&P made it back, alright, but not the investors who were wiped out and now have nothing left to participate in the rebound. And how about all those Pensions, 501Ks and IRAs that went belly up. How much of those losses resulted from natural market fluctuations vs. the Enron/Tyco types who rubbed noses with the politically powerful?

Unemployment. There’s a tricky statistic. How many people put out of work eventually found other jobs that enabled them to live anywhere near the level they once did? How many even continued to look for work? What percentage of people still out of work are actually eligible for unemployment? How many formerly self-employed not eligible for unemployment are raiding their IRA's Have welfare roles increased? How many people lost health-care benefits and/or can't afford coverage?

Good economy – for whom? What is the cost of living today compared to pre-Bush figures? How does Congress reconcile higher medical costs, higher rents, higher home prices, higher college costs, and higher energy/food prices other than to raise THEIR pay? What happened to domestic new car sales and manufacturer work forces? What's going to happen whenl Baby-Boom Alzheimers and Social Security shortfalls hit.

Sure be nice if you guys would quit claiming everything is rosy and start supporting competent people capable of actually planning for the future and willing to eliminate corruption.

[PaceAdvantage]

Sure be nice if you guys would quit claiming everything is rosy and start supporting competent people capable of actually planning for the future and willing to eliminate corruption.

Who's claiming everything is rosy? Are you for real? Are you that biased that you can't see anything positive in the world? You're helpless if this is how you feel.

I simply pointed out two things which a prior poster failed to mention in regards to presidential "accomplishments" and I am lumped in with the "guys who claim everything is rosy"

Whatever.

I point out the Dow is back, I mention the S&P is back, and you say "what about the guys who lost money during the fall, what about the pensions, what about blah blah blah." How do you know they haven't recovered during this recovery?

Any "investor" who was "wiped out" in the early part of this decade was wiped out for a reason.....piss poor investment and money management skills. You can't blame the market for taking your money away from you. You can only blame yourself for losing your own money. Diversification and risk management are the keys that were obviously ignored by anyone who was "wiped out."

The market provides many ways for investors and traders to make money on the way DOWN, as well as on the way up....

[Indulto]

Originally posted by PA:

Any "investor" who was "wiped out" in the early part of this decade was wiped out for a reason.....piss poor investment and money management skills. You can't blame the market for taking your money away from you. You can only blame yourself for losing your own money. Diversification and risk management are the keys that were obviously ignored by anyone who was "wiped out."

The market provides many ways for investors and traders to make money on the way DOWN, as well as on the way up....Good point.
I should not have used the term "investors" as they indeed had choices. I intended to refer to employees who were locked into company-controlled 501k plans and those whose pensions were invested in stocks which were managed by professional investment companies that apparently were unable to make money on the way down. Perhaps "wiped out" was also misused although it is my understanding that holdings in Mutual Funds that lost value have not recovered.

I guess I've alienated enough people for one night. Off-topic is a scream.