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highnote

03-16-2006, 05:53 PM

Anti-Online Gaming Bill Passes in House Committee
WASHINGTON, DC – As reported by the Westfall Weekly News: "A U.S. House committee on Wednesday approved a bill aimed at stamping out the $12 billion Internet gambling industry by stopping businesses from accepting credit cards and other forms of payment.
"The bill, cleared by voice vote in the House Financial Services Committee, would prohibit a gambling business from accepting credit cards, checks, wire transfers and electronic funds transfers in illegal gambling transactions.
"…But Massachusetts Democratic Rep. Barney Frank, the top Democrat on the House committee, opposed the bill. He said Congress should not seek to control how adults spend their money just because some lawmakers oppose gambling…"

I have to agree with Barney Frank on this one.

AwolAtPA

03-16-2006, 07:22 PM

how is '..illegal gambling transactions...' defined??

yes, some states do not allow on-line betting.

so, IF a state allows on-line gambling THEN the on-line gambling is legal. (???)

awol

Indulto

03-16-2006, 07:59 PM

"Fortunately" the horseracing exemption remains intact, but states can still prevent their residents from participating. :confused:

Dave Schwartz

03-16-2006, 08:47 PM

Awol,

I live in Nevada. In Nevada it is illegal to bet across state lines. Therefore, I fully expect that Philly Park will close my account real soon after this is signed into law.

I would assume that this bill is saying that whatever the state deems illegal must be honored... or else... what? Perhaps the bet-taker is in for it?

regards,
Dave Schwartz

highnote

03-16-2006, 09:15 PM

Tom

03-16-2006, 11:25 PM

DJofSD

03-16-2006, 11:25 PM

Looks like another assault on the 10th amendment.

Indulto

03-17-2006, 12:06 AM

Originally posted by Tom:

I wonder if there will be an exemption for illegal aliens to bet?Can you open a wagering account with an SSN of all zeros?

ecaroff

03-17-2006, 12:46 AM

From what I've read so far the horse industry will be exempt. Not only that it's got to get through the House and Senate and then signed by the President. I would venture to guess that it will never get to the floor.

ecaroff

03-17-2006, 12:59 AM

I realize that gambling can be a problem and we've probably all been there one time or another. The problem is not gambling as much as it is the Credit Card companies. They get our kids hooked in college or even younger and when the kids miss a payment or can't pay the bill they raise their rate to 25% or more. It will then take these kids 25 years to pay if off with minimum payments. It's really no different than legalized loan sharking. I believe they passed the new bankruptcy laws for the credit card companies and as such you would think the companies could afford to lower their rates.

I think one of the only solutions is to have term limits for all congress. That way maybe they'd get some of the people's work done instead of this constant political grandstanding. I use to like watching Fox News but I am sick of all these politics so now I simply tape my favorite movies and if I feel like watching TV I watch these. Whether your Republican or Democrat somehow we need to start a grass-roots program that we get rid of all congressman no matter who they are after they've been there 2 terms. Do you think that's possible?

ljb

03-17-2006, 07:55 AM

Congresss is a total joke. This is all crap and it is important that eveyone who votes like this be ousted from office. They are basically telling each of us that we are somehow not good people for betting.

I wonder if there will be an exemption for illegal aliens to bet?
If anyone wants to do a search, I did warn all, of this type or restriction of our individual rights prior to the last presidential election. But alas the neocon's machine drowned out my crys for help. :(

DJofSD

03-17-2006, 09:10 AM

Can you open a wagering account with an SSN of all zeros?

They won't use such an obviously bogus SSN, they'll just use yours!

Tom

03-17-2006, 10:02 AM

Can you open a wagering account with an SSN of all zeros?

No no, that's my balance! :rolleyes:

Valuist

03-17-2006, 10:21 AM

They may start out w/an exemption for horse racing but look for them to try to tighten the screws down the line.

Kyl and McCain are the biggest anti-gambling congressman.

Snag

03-17-2006, 10:57 AM

This bill is HR 4777 introduced by Bob Goodlatte (R) Virginia. It is a bill that was reintroduced on Feb 16, 2006. A version of this bill has been introduced at least twice before but either didn't get out of committee, or did not pass a vote in the house.

The problem, this time, is that it has over 130 bipartisan cosponsors. ljb, you might want to review the list before painting everything introduced by a R with such a big brush. It puts restrictions on the money flow for the purpose of making or collection of bets. This places the banks and credit card companies in the position of be the policeman overseeing this transaction. They don't want to have this added to their list of rules and regulations any more than the public does. They already block some transactions but they would have to be responsible for additional oversite of their customers.

The bill says it will not override or change any laws already in place. The Interstate Horseracing Act already is in place and allows for the use of the "electronic" media to pass information. This is why we can have interstate simo racing. A read of the new bill and Mr. Goodlatte comments, shows his bill is aimed at the offshore casino business. Small difference I agree, but one reason the bill now has been passed out of committee.

It does bear watching.

ecaroff

03-17-2006, 11:08 AM

109th CONGRESS
2d Session

H. R. 4777

To amend title 18, United States Code, to expand and modernize the prohibition against interstate gambling, and for other purposes.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

February 16, 2006

Mr. GOODLATTE (for himself, Mr. BOUCHER, Mr. WOLF, Mr. MCINTYRE, Mr. PITTS, Mr. PENCE, Mr. SHADEGG, Mr. ADERHOLT, Mr. AKIN, Mr. ALEXANDER, Mr. BACHUS, Mr. BAKER, Mr. BARRETT of South Carolina, Mr. BARTLETT of Maryland, Mr. BASS, Mr. BOEHLERT, Mr. BONNER, Mr. BOOZMAN, Mr. BOUSTANY, Mr. BURGESS, Mr. BURTON of Indiana, Mr. BUYER, Mr. CANTOR, Mrs. CAPITO, Mr. CHABOT, Mr. COBLE, Mr. CONAWAY, Mr. CRENSHAW, Mr. CULBERSON, Mrs. JO ANN DAVIS of Virginia, Mr. TOM DAVIS of Virginia, Mr. DEAL of Georgia, Mr. DEFAZIO, Mr. LINCOLN DIAZ-BALART of Florida, Mrs. DRAKE, Mr. DUNCAN, Mr. EHLERS, Mrs. EMERSON, Mr. EVERETT, Mr. FORBES, Mr. FORTENBERRY, Mr. FRANKS of Arizona, Mr. FORTUN.AE6O, Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN, Ms. FOXX, Mr. GALLEGLY, Mr. GILCHREST, Mr. GILLMOR, Mr. GINGREY, Mr. GOHMERT, Mr. GOODE, Mr. GUTKNECHT, Ms. HART, Mr. HAYES, Mr. HEFLEY, Mr. HERGER, Mr. HOBSON, Mr. HOEKSTRA, Mr. HOSTETTLER, Mr. INGLIS of South Carolina, Mr. ISTOOK, Mr. JENKINS, Mr. JINDAL, Mrs. JOHNSON of Connecticut, Mr. JONES of North Carolina, Mr. KELLER, Mrs. KELLY, Mr. KENNEDY of Minnesota, Mr. KING of Iowa, Mr. KINGSTON, Mr. KUHL of New York, Mr. LEWIS of California, Mr. LINDER, Mr. LUCAS, Mr. DANIEL E. LUNGREN of California, Mr. MCCRERY, Mr. MCKEON, Mr. MILLER of Florida, Mr. MORAN of Kansas, Mr. MORAN of Virginia, Mrs. MUSGRAVE, Mrs. MYRICK, Mr. NEUGEBAUER, Mr. NORWOOD, Mr. NUSSLE, Mr. OSBORNE, Mr. PETERSON of Minnesota, Mr. POE, Mr. PUTNAM, Mr. RAMSTAD, Mr. REGULA, Mr. REHBERG, Mr. REYNOLDS, Mr. ROGERS of Alabama, Mr. ROGERS of Michigan, Mr. SCHWARZ of Michigan, Mr. SHIMKUS, Mr. SHUSTER, Mr. SIMMONS, Mr. SMITH of Texas, Mr. SODREL, Mr. SOUDER, Mr. SULLIVAN, Mr. TERRY, Mr. THOMAS, Mr. TIAHRT, Mr. WALDEN of Oregon, Mr. WALSH, Mr. WELDON of Florida, Mr. WESTMORELAND, Mr. WICKER, Mr. WILSON of South Carolina, Mrs. WILSON of New Mexico, Mr. BRADY of Texas, Mr. DELAY, and Mr. LAHOOD) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary

A BILL

To amend title 18, United States Code, to expand and modernize the prohibition against interstate gambling, and for other purposes.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Internet Gambling Prohibition Act'.

SEC. 2. DEFINITIONS.

Section 1081 of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) by designating the five undesignated paragraphs that begin with `The term' as paragraphs (1) through (5), respectively;

(2) in paragraph (5), as so designated--

(A) by striking `wire communication' and inserting `communication';

(B) by inserting `satellite, microwave,' after `cable,'; and

(C) by inserting `(whether fixed or mobile)' after `connection'; and

(3) by adding at the end the following:

`(6) The term `bets or wagers'--

`(A) means the staking or risking by any person of something of value upon the outcome of a contest of others, a sporting event, or a game predominantly subject to chance, upon an agreement or understanding that the person or another person will receive something of greater value than the amount staked or risked in the event of a certain outcome;

`(B) includes the purchase of a chance or opportunity to win a lottery or other prize (which opportunity to win is predominantly subject to chance); and

`(C) does not include--

`(i) a bona fide business transaction governed by the securities laws (as that term is defined in section 3(a)(47) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 (15 U.S.C. 78c(a)(47))) for the purchase or sale at a future date of securities (as that term is defined in section 3(a)(10) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 (15 U.S.C. 78c(a)(10)));

`(ii) a transaction on or subject to the rules of a contract market designated pursuant to section 5 of the Commodity Exchange Act (7 U.S.C. 7) or to any transaction subject to an exemption pursuant to section 4(c) of such Act;

`(iii) any over-the-counter derivative instrument;

`(iv) a contract of indemnity or guarantee;

`(v) a contract for life, health, or accident insurance;

`(vi) participation in any game or contest in which participants do not stake or risk anything of value other than--

`(I) personal efforts of the participants in playing the game or contest or obtaining access to the Internet; or

`(II) point or credits that the sponsor of the game or contest provides to participants free of charge and that can be used or redeemed only for participation in games or contests offered by the sponsor; or

`(vii) participation in any simulation sports game or educational game or contest in which (if the game or contest involves a team or teams) all teams are fictional and no team is a member of an amateur or professional sports organization (as those terms are defined in section 3701 of title 28) and that meets the following conditions:

`(I) All prizes and awards offered to winning participants are established and made known to the participants in advance of the game or contest and their value is not determined by the number of participants or the amount of any fees paid by those participants.

`(II) All winning outcomes reflect the relative knowledge and skill of the participants and are determined predominantly by accumulated statistical results of the performance of individuals (athletes in the case of sports events) in multiple real-world sporting or other events.

`(III) No winning outcome is based--

`(aa) on the score, point-spread or any performance or performances of any single real-world team or any combination of such teams; or

`(bb) solely on any single performance of an individual athlete in any single real-world sporting or other event.

`(7) The term `foreign jurisdiction' means a jurisdiction of a foreign country or political subdivision thereof.

`(8) The term `gambling business' means a business of betting or wagering;

`(9) The term `information assisting in the placing of bets or wagers' means information knowingly transmitted by an individual in a gambling business for use in placing, receiving, making, or otherwise enabling or facilitating a bet or wager and does not include--

`(A) any posting or reporting of any educational information on how to make a legal bet or wager or the nature of betting or wagering, as long as such posting or reporting does not solicit or provide information for the purpose of facilitating or enabling the placing or receipt of bets or wagers in a jurisdiction where such betting is illegal; or

`(B) advertising relating to betting or wagering in a jurisdiction where such betting or wagering is legal, as long as such advertising does not solicit or provide information for the purpose of facilitating or enabling the placing or receipt of bets or wagers in a jurisdiction where such betting is illegal.

`(10) The term `person' includes a government (including any governmental entity (as defined in section 3701(2) of title 28)).

`(11) The term `State' means a State of the United States, the District of Columbia, or a commonwealth, territory, or possession of the United States.

`(12) The terms `credit', `creditor', and `credit card' have the meanings given such terms in section 103 of the Truth in Lending Act.

`(13) The term `electronic fund transfer'--

`(A) has the meaning given such term in section 903 of the Electronic Fund Transfer Act; or

`(B) any fund transfer covered by Article 4A of the Uniform Commercial Code, as in effect in any State.

`(14) The term `financial institution' has the meaning given such term in section 903 of the Electronic Fund Transfer Act.

`(15) The term `insured depository institution'--

`(A) has the same meaning as in section 3(c) of the Federal Deposit Insurance Act; and

`(B) includes any insured credit union (as defined in section 101 of the Federal Credit Union Act).

`(16) The terms `money transmitting business' and `money transmitting service' have the meanings given such terms in section 5330(d) of title 31, United States Code.

`(17) The terms `own or control' and to be `owned or controlled' have the same meanings as in section 2(a)(2) of the Bank Holding Company Act of 1956.

`(18) The term `Secretary' means the Secretary of the Treasury.

`(19) The term `Tribe' or `tribal' means an Indian tribe, as defined under section 4(5) of the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act of 1988).'.

SEC. 3. MODIFICATION OF EXISTING PROHIBITION.

Section 1084 of title 18, United States Code, is amended to read as follows:

`Sec. 1084. Use of a communication facility to transmit bets or wagers; penalties

`(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, being engaged in a gambling business, knowingly uses a communication facility--

`(1) for the transmission in interstate or foreign commerce, within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States, or to or from any place outside the jurisdiction of any nation with respect to any transmission to or from the United States, of bets or wagers, or information assisting in the placing of bets or wagers; or

`(2) for the transmission of a communication in interstate or foreign commerce, within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States, or to or from any place outside the jurisdiction of any nation with respect to any transmission to or from the United States, which entitles the recipient to receive money or credit as a result of bets or wagers, or for information assisting in the placing of bets or wagers;

shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

`(b) Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, being engaged in a gambling business, knowingly accepts, in connection with the transmission of a communication in interstate or foreign commerce, within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States, or to or from any place outside the jurisdiction of any nation with respect to any transmission to or from the United States of bets or wagers or information assisting in the placing of bets or wagers--

`(1) credit, or the proceeds of credit, extended to or on behalf of another (including credit extended through the use of a credit card);

`(2) an electronic fund transfer or funds transmitted by or through a money transmitting business, or the proceeds of an electronic fund transfer or money transmitting service, from or on behalf of the other person;

`(3) any check, draft, or similar instrument which is drawn by or on behalf of the other person and is drawn on or payable through any financial institution; or

`(4) the proceeds of any other form of financial transaction as the Secretary of the Treasury may prescribe by regulation which involves a financial institution as a payor or financial intermediary on behalf of or for the benefit of the other person,

shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

`(c) Nothing in this section prohibits--

`(1) the transmission of information assisting in the placing of bets or wagers for use in news reporting if such transmission does not solicit or provide information for the purpose of facilitating or enabling the placing or receipt of bets or wagers in a jurisdiction where such betting is illegal;

`(2) the transmission of information assisting in the placing of bets or wagers from a State or foreign country where such betting or wagering is permitted under Federal, State, tribal, or local law into a State or foreign country in which such betting on the same event is permitted under Federal, State, tribal, or local law; or

`(3) the interstate transmission of information relating to a State-specific lottery between a State or foreign country where such betting or wagering is permitted under Federal, State, tribal, or local law and an out-of-State data center for the purposes of assisting in the operation of such State-specific lottery.

`(d) Nothing in this section prohibits the use of a communication facility for the transmission of bets or wagers or information assisting in the placing of bets or wagers, if--

`(1) at the time the transmission occurs, the individual or entity placing the bets or wagers or information assisting in the placing of bets or wagers, the gambling business, and any facility or support service processing those bets or wagers is physically located in the same State, and the State has a secure and effective customer verification and age verification system to assure compliance with age and residence requirements, and for class II or class III gaming under the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act, are physically located on Indian lands within that State;

`(2) the State or Tribe has explicitly authorized such bets and wagers;

`(3) the State has explicitly authorized and licensed the operation of the gambling business, any facility processing the bets and wagers, and the support service within its borders or the Tribe has explicitly authorized and licensed the operation of such gambling business, any facility processing the bets and wagers, and the support service on Indian lands within its jurisdiction;

`(4) with respect to class II or class III gaming, the game is permitted under and conducted in accordance with the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act;

`(5) with respect to class III gaming under the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act, the game is authorized under, and is conducted in accordance with, the respective Tribal-State compact of the Tribe having jurisdiction over the Indian lands where the individual or entity placing the bets or wagers or information assisting in the placing of bets or wagers, the gambling business, and any facility or support service processing those bets or wagers are physically located; and

`(6) with respect to class III gaming under the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act, each such Tribal-State compact expressly provides that the game may be conducted using a communication facility to transmit bets or wagers or information assisting in the placing of bets or wagers.

`(e) Nothing in this section creates immunity from criminal prosecution under any laws of any State or Tribe.

`(f) Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit an activity allowed under Public Law 95-515 (15 U.S.C. 3001 et seq.).

`(g) Nothing in this section authorizes activity that is prohibited under chapter 178 of title 28, United States Code.

`(h) When any common carrier, subject to the jurisdiction of the Federal Communications Commission, is notified in writing by a Federal, State, tribal or local law enforcement agency, acting within its jurisdiction, that any communication facility furnished by it is being used or will be used by its subscriber for the purpose of transmitting or receiving gambling information, in interstate or foreign commerce, within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States, or to or from any place outside the jurisdiction of any nation with respect to any transmission to or from the United States in violation of Federal, State, tribal or local law, it shall discontinue or refuse, the leasing, furnishing, or maintaining of such facility, after reasonable notice to the subscriber, but no damages, penalty or forfeiture, civil or criminal, shall be found against any common carrier for any act done in compliance with any notice received from a law enforcement agency. Nothing in this section shall be deemed to prejudice the right of any person affected thereby to secure an appropriate determination, as otherwise provided by law, in a Federal court or in a State, tribal, or local tribunal or agency, that such facility should not be discontinued or removed, or should be restored.

`(i)(1) A Federal, State, tribal, or local law enforcement agency, acting within its jurisdiction may, in a civil action, obtain injunctive or declaratory relief to restrain or prevent any person from paying or assisting in the payment of bets or wagers, or communicating information assisting in the placing of bets or wagers, in interstate or foreign commerce, within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States, or to or from any place outside the jurisdiction of any nation with respect to any transmission to or from the United States in violation of Federal, State, tribal, or local law.

`(2) No damages, penalty, or forfeiture, civil or criminal, shall be found against any person or entity for any act done in compliance with any notice received from a law enforcement agency.

`(3) Relief granted under paragraph (1) against an interactive computer service (as defined in section 230(f) of the Communications Act of 1934) shall--

`(A) be limited to the removal of, or disabling of access to, an online site violating this section, or a hypertext link to an online site violating this section, that resides on a computer server that such service controls or operates; except this limitation shall not apply if the service is violating this section or is in active concert with a person who is violating this section and receives actual notice of the relief;

`(B) be available only after notice to the interactive computer service and an opportunity for the service to appear are provided;

`(C) not impose any obligation on an interactive computer service to monitor its service or to affirmatively seek facts indicating activity violating this section;

`(D) specify the interactive computer service to which it applies; and

`(E) specifically identify the location of the online site or hypertext link to be removed or access to which is to be disabled.'.

SEC. 4. AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS.

In addition to any other sums authorized to be appropriated for this purpose, there are authorized to be appropriated for each of fiscal years 2007 through 2010 $10,000,000 for investigations and prosecutions of violations of section 1084 of title 18, United States Code.

ljb

03-17-2006, 11:23 AM

This bill is HR 4777 introduced by Bob Goodlatte (R) Virginia.

The problem, this time, is that it has over 130 bipartisan cosponsors. ljb, you might want to review the list before painting everything introduced by a R with such a big brush.
My only point is, prior to the last election I said the christian coalition provided Bush with the votes needed to win. This group is not only against abortion they also team up with the indians to restrict gambling, another one of their evils. This had to be expected by all.
ps. many of them don't look to kindly on drinking alcohol either, better stock up folks :D

Ron

03-17-2006, 02:02 PM

This has nothing to do with gambling or morals but with taxation.

highnote

03-17-2006, 02:35 PM

They may start out w/an exemption for horse racing but look for them to try to tighten the screws down the line.

Kyl and McCain are the biggest anti-gambling congressman.

I don't think they'll ever totally block racing. There are too many wealthy race horse owners. The value of racehorses is tied to purse money won. Purse money won is tied to wagering handle. Wagering handle is tied to bettors. It's simple trickle down Reaganomics.

ljb

03-17-2006, 02:51 PM

This has nothing to do with gambling or morals but with taxation.
You may be right but, the christian coalition has won another battle. Inch by inch they are making headway.

highnote

03-17-2006, 03:13 PM

Here's one reason why these people have no business regulating the way I want to bet: They are so ignorant that they can't even get the definition of "bets or wagers" correct.

They wrote in the bill:

"`(6) The term `bets or wagers'--
`(A) means the staking or risking by any person of something of value upon the outcome of a contest of others, a sporting event, or a game predominantly subject to chance, upon an agreement or understanding that the person or another person will receive something of greater value than the amount staked or risked in the event of a certain outcome; "

Well, what about the case when you lose? You receive something less than the value of the amount staked.

Or what about the case where you make multiple wagers and your payoff is less than you staked?

What about when you back and lay several horses on a betting exchange and the value of your payoff is less than you staked.

These people are not experts and they have no business telling me how to act. In fact, it's obvious their motivitations are purely political.

Their actions are what enables proliferation of unregulated, illegal and untaxed betting.

Amateurs -- ha. These people will never get my support. They only alienate me further.

By the way, at Goodlatte's website at the URL below, you will see a waving banner at the top of the page that is supposed to say Virginia. I had to do a triple take -- I swear they left off the "a" on purpose so that it looks like "Virgin". Weirdly ironic.

http://www.house.gov/goodlatte/internetgambling109.htm

Tom

03-17-2006, 08:24 PM

You may be right but, the christian coalition has won another battle. Inch by inch they are making headway.

If they want to pass some GOOD legislation, I think itis high time for ALL churches to atart paying taxes like everyone else. Making a church tax free is contrary to prevailing seperation of church and state court decisions. That would probably keep them to busy to worry about how we live our lives! :mad:

ljb

03-18-2006, 08:13 AM

If they want to pass some GOOD legislation, I think itis high time for ALL churches to atart paying taxes like everyone else. Making a church tax free is contrary to prevailing seperation of church and state court decisions. That would probably keep them to busy to worry about how we live our lives! :mad:
Amen!

ecaroff

03-18-2006, 11:29 PM

take it one step further - ONLY libs should pay taxes.

DJofSD

03-19-2006, 12:06 AM

take it one step further - ONLY libs should pay taxes.

Yes, lead by example.

NoDayJob

03-19-2006, 02:53 AM

Congresss is a total joke. This is all crap and it is important that eveyone who votes like this be ousted from office. They are basically telling each of us that we are somehow not good people for betting.

I wonder if there will be an exemption for illegal aliens to bet?

:D Our gummint is so screwed up I'm advocating bullets not ballots to oust these politicians. :D

NoDayJob

03-19-2006, 03:18 AM

My only point is, prior to the last election I said the christian coalition provided Bush with the votes needed to win. This group is not only against abortion they also team up with the indians to restrict gambling, another one of their evils. This had to be expected by all.
ps. many of them don't look to kindly on drinking alcohol either, better stock up folks :D

Slowly but surely, via gradualism the long arm of the police state tightens its clammy grip around its citizens necks, strangling their rights and freedoms that our founding fathers fought and died for. The policitians represent only the God of Mammon, certainly not the people.

ecaroff

03-19-2006, 07:46 AM

Slowly but surely, via gradualism the long arm of the police state tightens its clammy grip around its citizens necks, strangling their rights and freedoms that our founding fathers fought and died for. The policitians represent only the God of Mammon, certainly not the people.

And he says give me MY freedom as China takes over our country. We fought and died for our freedom but now you're one of those who is willing to just turn everything over to our enemies. Your paranoid. I'm glad your kind stays in the minority. Turning over our national security to you libs will be the end for us.

ljb

03-19-2006, 08:03 AM

take it one step further - ONLY libs should pay taxes.
Now there you go, you have leaked the neocon's game plan. For shame.

ljb

03-19-2006, 08:08 AM

And he says give me MY freedom as China takes over our country. We fought and died for our freedom but now you're one of those who is willing to just turn everything over to our enemies. Your paranoid. I'm glad your kind stays in the minority. Turning over our national security to you libs will be the end for us.
And this from a supporter of Bush who just threatened his first veto over giving our ports to the arabs and thinks nothing of illegally wiretapping American citizens. Nothing personal but, your ignorance is overwhelming.

twindouble

03-19-2006, 08:25 AM

DJofSD

03-19-2006, 09:16 AM

do good freaks in each state an opportunity to cut off the flow of money via wire transfer and the use of credit cards.

So, let me get this straight. If you're here illegally, you can still send money out of the country, none of it ever to return, but, if you are here legally, you can't send any money out of the counrty and have most of it returned (to the winners)?

twindouble

03-19-2006, 09:33 AM

So, let me get this straight. If you're here illegally, you can still send money out of the country, none of it ever to return, but, if you are here legally, you can't send any money out of the counrty and have most of it returned (to the winners)?

Actually, I don't have it straight yet as to what it all means. :confused: Good point if your right.

T.D.

highnote

03-19-2006, 01:06 PM

The lawmakers can't even get it straight. Just look at their definition of "wager". They don't even get it right.

Indulto

04-05-2006, 10:08 PM

Justice official says racing under scrutiny By MATT HEGARTY
http://www.drf.com/news/article/73344.html (http://www.drf.com/news/article/73344.html)

“A top official in the Department of Justice said during a hearing in Washington on Wednesday that his unit is conducting a "civil investigation" of the horse racing industry's widespread practice of accepting bets over state lines.”

Valuist

04-06-2006, 11:16 AM

I forgot we don't have any problems in this country and that its important for politicians to do things like go after those who gamble on the Internet :mad:

Conservatives....liberals....it doesn't matter. They ALL suck.

Tom

04-06-2006, 11:28 AM

Tell those SOBs at Justice that we area GUEST GAMBLERS! We bet on things no other Americans will bet on. We are good for the economy.

Pace Cap'n

04-06-2006, 07:54 PM

Now here is a guy who seems to have a good grasp on the gambling question...

-------------------------------------------

John Warren Kindt, a professor at the University of Illinois, told lawmakers of the socioeconomic problems associated with all forms of gambling. He said a strategic solution would be to ban Internet gambling and convert existing gambling facilities into educational and practical technology facilities.

Kindt included in his testimony a chart on the business economics of licensed organized gambling. The document called casinos, video gaming machines, and Internet betting the "crack cocaine of gambling," and horse and dog tracks, bingo, and lotteries the "marijuana of gambling."

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NOT.

Source. (www.majorwager.com/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=157165&enterthread=y)

rrpic6

04-06-2006, 08:11 PM

Where's Abramoff when you need him? I thought he took care of all this stuff for us?

Dave Schwartz

04-14-2006, 11:29 AM

Has there been any update on this bill?

I am still having a hard time understanding if the horse racing industry should be concerned.

Opinions?

Regards,
Dave Schwartz

Lefty

04-14-2006, 11:54 AM

lbj, there are plenty of dems that's against gambling too. It's not just some Repubs.
BTW, when Bob Bennett was in Vegas a couple of yrs ago, playing legal slots some of you guys were "all over him,"

kenwoodallpromos

04-14-2006, 02:45 PM

Gee, an educator wants more concentration on education so he can line his pockets? amazing! Tell the jerk a got a college education just learning everything associated with horses, tracks, odds, medicine.
Yeh, with ATT and others illegally pumping info to the feds, the Bush admin thinks they can mess with anyone they want and the industry will roll over.
Anything in the law banning day trading of oil stocks? or gold? Somebody should remind them that NV and KY are red states!

Valuist

04-14-2006, 03:00 PM

DJofSD

04-14-2006, 05:58 PM

Gee, I wonder, does this prof propose to eliminate state lottos and church bingo night too?

Lefty

04-14-2006, 11:18 PM

Bala

04-14-2006, 11:42 PM

I'm no legal eagle but I don't see where this bill effects us at all. I am wondering if it effects the off shore operations. Book making has been illegal right along in all states online or otherwise. Correct me if I'm wrong, all this does is give the do good freaks in each state an opportunity to cut off the flow of money via wire transfer and the use of credit cards.
T.D.

Will this effect the offshore books? Absolutely NOT! Most books today can charge your credit card as a purchase on an item of merchandise. If your book does not - just ask them.

Additionally, there are other ways to fund your account. No need for paypal.

Instant check:
No more credit card hassles. Write a personal check online or over the phone and your betting account will be funded instantly

Neteller.com:
NETeller is a secure web based account that allows you to fund your betting account using Visa or Mastercard (in US . and Canada only) and Electronic Funds Transfer (EFT) . . from your bank account.

Moneybookers.com:
MoneyBookers is a secure web based account that allows you to cost effectively send and receive payments online. via credit card (Visa, Visa Electron) or bank transfer - in real time from over 30 countries.

Firepay.com:
FirePay is a secure web based account that allows you to transfer funds directly from your US bank account.

Also, bank wire and bank draft. Just ask your book for alternate funding methods.

__________________________________________________
If evolution is true then any monkey can pick the "06 derby.

Snag

04-17-2006, 11:29 AM

Has there been any update on this bill?

I am still having a hard time understanding if the horse racing industry should be concerned.

Opinions?

Regards,
Dave Schwartz

As of today, the bill is still in committee. http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c109:1:./temp/~c109vM4Cg6:: will let you follow the status of the bill. The bill is HR4777.

highnote

04-17-2006, 12:07 PM

I tried link, but said it's not available. Is it only available at certain times?

Snag

04-17-2006, 12:49 PM

You are correct. I guess it was a temp location. I clicked on Home and it took me to the correct site to then do a search.

Let's try again... http://thomas.loc.gov then search on HR 4777.

Sorry.