Touts-Just Amazing the nonsense customers will stand for

[Koko]

I find it kind of fascinating the difference in cost and honest reporting of results between financial market letter writers and horse tout sheets.

Although most financial market newsletter publisher's performance is piss poor and a substantial number have been known to mis-state or outright lie about their record, there is some recognition by these publishers that they'll attract more customers by providing a half-way legit and coherent documentation of their results. Also, cost wise, you can buy some of the half-way decent letters for approx. $2-3 per market day.

Yet, customers of Tout sheets, who presumeably have a much smaller bankroll they're working with, are charged from $3-30 per day and, almost without exception, are never provided any relevant ROI numbers by such publishers.

It's always the "look, we hit a $216 trifecta yesterday", totally ignoring the fact that had you followed this tout's advice for the past three days you'd been down $3,400 or down 22% ROI. Or perhaps be down 74% ROI for the last two months following their advice.

I understand the phenomena of course, the customers keep coming back for more in spite of being given no or misleading information about the tout's abilities as shown by their long-term record. So as a tout, why on earth would you even consider posting your neg. ROI number when you'd only be cutting your own throat.

By the same token, I'm surprised that a few profitable touts (if that creature exists) don't take full advantage of the vacuum of honest reporting by their co-horts and put their numbers out for all to see, hoping that their is a market for touts among the slightly more sophisticated public, who might actually demand a track record before buying advice "from an expert".

[mainardi]

I don't use the services, and I especially find some of the on-track touts to be the shadiest. Why? Other than the fact that I have always done my own handicapping, some of them are too dishonest for words.

Long-story-short, I was on my in to Santa Anita (MANY years ago) to catch the 5th race and I saw some tout sheets laying about near the entrance. I picked one up to check out their results... AND the ink on the first four races was still wet!!! I took that sheet with me, and between bets I searched around for an original. Lo-and-behold, I found an origian sheet... and (of course) the original wasn't even close, while the wet sheet had four straight longshots with some healthy exactas. No doubt they had some sort of mimeograph machine in a van nearby. Rotten scoundrels!!!

[dav4463]

I wish there were more touts at the track. They add "flavor" to the atmosphere; the seedier the better! I don't like the family atmosphere at the track.

[tahoesid]

This is a phenomenon that touts take advantage of. Most of these people don't have the time or ability or inclination to do any handicapping on their own. They want the action but none of the work and are willing to pay someone to do it for them. They are then able to blame whoever they got their picks from for their failure.

They aren't looking at the bottom line for the month /year etc. Action, action, action. If it is an occasional thing, the $3-10 or whatever is not a big deal to them. That is why they move from one to the other....guy has a good streak he stays. Starts going down, off to the next one to try for better luck.

[Koko]

I wish there were more touts at the track. They add "flavor" to the atmosphere; the seedier the better! I don't like the family atmosphere at the track.

:lol: People dumb enough to buy their stuff should be banned from the track for their own good. The police should have a sting operation where undercover "touts" bust customers who try to buy, sort of like a "john" busting operation, I mean, I thought it was patently illegal to be that naive.

[GaryG]

:lol: People dumb enough to buy their stuff should be banned from the track for their own good. The police should have a sting operation where undercover "touts" bust customers who try to buy, sort of like a "john" busting operation, I mean, I thought it was patently illegal to be that naive.I do some work for a selection sheet that is sold online, so while I certainly appreciate your sentiments, maybe should just let them be...:jump:

[Koko]

I do some work for a selection sheet that is sold online, so while I certainly appreciate your sentiments, maybe should just let them be...:jump:

GaryG,

I was being facetious, I have no interest in whether people buy advice or not.

Let me ask you something. Would you advise a loved one to pay for investment advice in any arena, where the advisor had NO third-party documented track record? To me, it's analogous to willingly hire a plumber who can't point to one successful completed job where the customer was satisfied with his work.

[GaryG]

GaryG,

I was being facetious, I have no interest in whether people buy advice or not.

Let me ask you something. Would you advise a loved one to pay for investment advice in any arena, where the advisor had NO third-party documented track record? To me, it's analogous to willingly hire a plumber who can't point to one successful completed job where the customer was satisfied with his work.I understand the facetiousness and I agree that some om the people who buy the picks are not going to be winners. We are geared more to the casual player who either has no opinion of his own or wants verification. Currently way ahead at Tampa but you never know! It ain't easy doing a complete analysis of each race.

[falseface]

I wish there were more touts at the track. They add "flavor" to the atmosphere; the seedier the better! I don't like the family atmosphere at the track.

This one is so unusual, I just had to post it. www.fantasticjack.com (http://www.fantasticjack.com). I'am neither a client, nor is this an endorsement for this site. However, I would LOVE to hear the feedback on it. Should I trash my software and just follow him? I could quit my job!!:jump::jump: :jump:

[PaceAdvantage]

Is the market for touts really all that large?

[dav4463]

This one is so unusual, I just had to post it. www.fantasticjack.com (http://www.fantasticjack.com). I'am neither a client, nor is this an endorsement for this site. However, I would LOVE to hear the feedback on it. Should I trash my software and just follow him? I could quit my job!!:jump::jump: :jump:

Now that's the kind of tout that I like! I respect this guy! If he makes money off of a few people who actually believe him....more power to him!

[kenwoodallpromos]

4 posts- the name FALSEFACE- free ad asking $$ thousands of dollars for picks- I'll think about it! :lol:

[fergie]

Am I just fooling myself, or does he look a lot like a younger version of Leslie Neilsen? That really would be comedic!:cool:

Fergie

[karlskorner]

Randy Schroder became a very wealthy man with the publishing of Lawtons during the 60's and 70's, am told and read the sheet controlled the board at NY tracks during that period, his son has been publishing since the 80's, nowhere as good as the father. Although well into his 80's he still attends CRC, haven't talked to him for awhile, still hand times each race for personal use.

[timtam]

I remember years ago at Philly Park there was a sheet called AD-TAB

it still might be there I'm not sure but it gave you a horse of the day and

you would play it usually $2 win 2$ place and $26 to show and they

would keep a running total and if you played the horse of the day the way

they told you to you would have been ( I think at the time it was over

a thousand bucks) needless to say I played it that way the day I was

there and I was down $30. I never went back the next day to see if the

amount was deducted from the running total but I learned my lesson.

It may be a reputable sheet but I was lazy and wanted a quick hit to get

some extra scratch for the day. Nope not my luck

[ratpack]

I remember when I was in High School and go to Monmouth Park the touts in 1963 were really great. They were straight off skid row, had not shaved it a week, with a greasy sport coat, shouting we had 6 winners yesterday.

[JustRalph]

Am I just fooling myself, or does he look a lot like a younger version of Leslie Neilsen? That really would be comedic!:cool:

Fergie

leslie neilsen was considered a "leading man" in his younger days. A big time movie star with what were considered very good looks. he is 80 years old now. he has a body of work that includes many movies and shows where he was a straight dramatic actor. Hell of a body of work. Including some campy sci-fi stuff. check it out

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000558/

http://www.homevideos.com/freezeframes8/fplanet213.jpeg

http://www.pofigist.spb.ru/walls/leslie_nielsen.jpg Big pic here.

[sq764]

:lol: People dumb enough to buy their stuff should be banned from the track for their own good. The police should have a sting operation where undercover "touts" bust customers who try to buy, sort of like a "john" busting operation, I mean, I thought it was patently illegal to be that naive.
I don't think people are dumb for buying them. I mean I know plenty of people that pay for stock tips, football picks, financial advice..

[JPinMaryland]

"...he has a body of work that includes many movies and shows where he was a straight dramatic actor.

ANd a lousy skipper. Turning the S.S. Poseidon broadside into a Tsunami wave is not the way to go... :faint:

[falseface]

4 posts- the name FALSEFACE- free ad asking $$ thousands of dollars for picks- I'll think about it! :lol:


With all due respect,(since you have been a longtime member here), I just joined a few days ago, so that accounts for the 4 posts so far. Falseface is just a user name I picked,(I like unusual user names), because I was a longtime fan of the popular TV show of the sixties called Batman, which had several villian names that were used as characters in the show. The URL I posted was within the guidelines of the TOS stated here: (You may only include URLs or active links to commercial & non-commercial sites for the purpose of expanding on comments or providing additional information as part of regular forum interactions). I also stated a disclaimer that I'am neither a client, nor endorse this site or service. And I'am certainly not the owner of the site either. Am I running a free ad here? I think not. Also, would anybody on this forum actually BELEIVE the claims that are stated on it? I think not also.

[PaceAdvantage]

The URL I posted was within the guidelines of the TOS stated here: (You may only include URLs or active links to commercial & non-commercial sites for the purpose of expanding on comments or providing additional information as part of regular forum interactions).

You, Mr. Falseface, are my NEW BEST FRIEND! You are, I believe, the very FIRST newbie who has bothered to read the terms of service.

I salute you in your uniqueness (I think?)!

[ELA]

So, I don't remember if it was my wife's first time at the Spa, or Gulfstream, or what. I think it was the Spa. We walk over and as I am getting a form, she hears one of the touts scream something like "we had the DD and a $38 horse" yada yada yada "get your winners right here for just $2" or something like that. My wife says to him "really, you guys had the DD and a $38 horse" -- the guy says "I have no idea, of course not, who cares, do you want a sheet" etc.

Anyway, it's like horse manure, it's all over the track. The outrageous claims should not be allowed, but the tourists buy them and for a $1 or two, they get some nonsense, BS, etc. selections. Considering they don't know how to read a program or a form, they feel they are getting a run for their money and a better root. So be it.

I think more importantly are the real touts -- the guys who are really bust out degenerate gamblers, who might be a bloodstock agent, know a jockey, have some connection to the industry, or might just be a regular racetrack hustler. These guys I have seen for years, track to track to track, and so on. I give one guy a few bucks every time I see him, it's entertainment. He's made the move on me at Gulfstream, Calder, Saratoga, Monmouth Park, and the Meadowlands. I am waiting to see him at Woodbine, LOL. This guy is mostly harmless, but I am sure there are some who have been taken by him.

Some of these you really have to look out for.

Eric

[dav4463]

I don't think people are dumb for buying them. I mean I know plenty of people that pay for stock tips, football picks, financial advice..

I completely agree. There are a large number of people who enjoy horseracing, like to bet on the horses, and actually follow the sport enough to know the trainers, jockeys, and many of the horses, but do not like to handicap. This is a foreign concept to us, but they are out there. I know plenty of them. Those who do just a little homework and find a decent tip sheet or handicapper to follow give themselves a much better chance to win.