Formulator 4.1 Printing [Archive] - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

Marc At DRF

03-08-2006, 12:49 PM

Nomadpat,

One thing we're trying to do with Formulator is dedicate a lot of extra customer support to its launch. Accordingly, we're rolling it out to our existing customers before we take it to the general public, to keep the ratio of C. service to customer much higher. So why not try Formulatorhelp@drf.com with questions like this? Those guys live to please, I swear...

Anyway, on the issue you're having, it's likely a printer driver issue.

Say the Formulator help guys:

"It could be an XP Pro problem. Usually the first suggestion on a fix would be to make sure he has the most updated printer driver. To get that, he would go to the printer manufacturer's website where the latest driver could be downloaded. If he has a Brother printer we would send them the below link and that would fix the problem. In most instances an upgraded driver solves the printing problems. However, there have been a few instances with XP Pro where printing problems have not been solved.

http://solutions.brother.com/Library/faq/printer/prfaq0646/prfaq0646.html

He should contact us at formulatorhelp@drf.com if these suggestions don't solve the problem for him."

GMB@BP

03-08-2006, 01:18 PM

TonyK@HSH

03-08-2006, 08:21 PM

good luck to those that email them, I sent them two emails, seperate subject with ZERO replies. 50 cent TSN files it is~

Interesting. I noticed an issue and sent 1 e-mail. The next day I received the following response. No lack of responsiveness in my opinion!

Tony,

The developer is working on a fix which should be available in the next day or so concerning the viewing. When it's available you should get an update alert in the program. If it doesn't address the issue let us know.

Lonnie @ DRF

ecaroff

03-08-2006, 10:17 PM

Someone told me with the new Formulator 4.1 version you will NOT be able to go to their website to get your files beginning in April - otherwise you will have to use a program THEY wrote simply to get the data files. I've never heard of such at thing. I figure they'll lose at least 1/3rd of their current clients when this system fails to work a few times - which we all know will happen. Then when you have that "problem" - you will try emailing them or calling them and they'll have to debug their program on your system. Let's face it, we know they won't be calling you and I think this thread has already shown they don't answer emails, at least not in a timely matter with real help. It may simply be that that part of the site is down but you'll never know. I'm also told that their program is 25MB - I figure this will take you about an hour and a half to download on a modem at 46kbs baud. Imagine when you have to download and run their new updates just to get the data.

A friend who uses the Intenet at work gets their data files - he has DSL at work and no Internet service at home (cell phone only). He copies the files to a disk and loads them onto his home computer to process. He is NOT allowed to load any software on his work computer. So if he can't go to the website to get the files then he's simply SOL. He tells me he'll be switching to Bris when that time arrives.

I honestly don't know who runs their business anymore but they make some of the dumbest decisions. Someone told me that since they got bought out a couple years ago they are in deep trouble. Guess the people who bought the company and all their buddies they brought in don't know much about horse racing. Hopefully, Crist will buy back the business - he'll probably get it for 1/2 price or less. I'm not a Crist fan but at least he knew what a horse was.

ecaroff

03-08-2006, 10:28 PM

What are you going to do when the data starts coming in upside down?

Tom

03-09-2006, 12:49 AM

I guess I don't see the reason they won't let you download fro thier site directly - it's not like you don't download other stuff there still. How about the PDF files? They area part of the basic package?

Sounds like a lot of whoop de doo over little change in the program itself. One has to wonder why?

I DO NOT like the deal where I an't download and use the file on a different machine. This is a deal breaker for me. I have one machine that never sees the internet - ever. Looks like BRIS/TSN is going to get one more customer full time.

ecaroff

03-09-2006, 01:25 AM

I agree with you Tom. Knowing DRF it's probably for some sinister reason. Symantec Norton started doing this so that you now have to buy a license for every computer. They install software on your machine to check for licensing. It used to be that you could buy the software and, for example, install it on both your desktop and laptop - now you have to buy 2 licenses. Norton was very sneaky about all of this. When I found this out I dropped them and went to Computer Associates a much better product. Legally I guess I should buy a license for every computer but if you had to do that for every computer for every piece of software one owns one would go broke.

ecaroff

03-09-2006, 01:42 AM

I'll give you another reason I hate this kind of stuff. Whenever you install software you always run the risk that the software will overwrite files used by other software on your system. For example, I just upgraded from Diskkeeper 7 to Diskkeeper 10 today. It is the only thing new done to my computer in the past 24 hours. What is happening now is that when I run some other software it runs fine the first time but when I run it a second time it fails and I have to re-boot. I not sure what exactly is going on but it's the only thing I changed in the last day or so. Now I'll spend hours trying to get my computer back to where it was. I don't know who is writing the DRF software but I wouldn't take the chance. I would install it on a 2nd machine and test it out thoroughly before putting it on your main computer.

03-09-2006, 02:48 AM

It is pretty simple why you will download through the program now. I think the main reason is to prevent file sharing. I can't say I blame them to be honest.

michiken

03-09-2006, 06:07 AM

now you have to buy 2 licenses. Norton was very sneaky about all of this.

You can also try AVG or Avast Free Antivirus programs (along with many other free downloads). Go to this page and scroll thru the most popular list:

download.com (http://www.download.com/3101-20-0-1.html?tag=pop)

:p

ecaroff

03-09-2006, 08:16 AM

Thanks for the info on download.com

Tom

03-09-2006, 11:59 AM

It is pretty simple why you will download through the program now. I think the main reason is to prevent file sharing. I can't say I blame them to be honest.

So what do you do when you buy a new computer - lose access to all you files?
You aren't buying files anymore - you're renting them.

taintso

03-09-2006, 12:47 PM

So what do you do when you buy a new computer - lose access to all you files?
You aren't buying files anymore - you're renting them.

The way I understand it, you can still move the files from one computer to another, they just won't be "live"; you can move them, but you can't view them until the next week, or something...is that not the case?

GMB@BP

03-09-2006, 01:08 PM

Interesting. I noticed an issue and sent 1 e-mail. The next day I received the following response. No lack of responsiveness in my opinion!

Tony,

The developer is working on a fix which should be available in the next day or so concerning the viewing. When it's available you should get an update alert in the program. If it doesn't address the issue let us know.

Lonnie @ DRF

my email did get lost in the shuffle, they found it and responded yesterday with a high level of professionalism.

that being said I will toy around with 4.1 but there are two major problems I have. I go out of town and on my laptop dont always have internet connection. I also would go to the OTB with my lap top. I have my main system and would just download to a flash stick and use that to read the file.

ecaroff

03-09-2006, 01:22 PM

They just want to make everything as difficult as they possibly can for you. Not really, I just think they have a bunch of numskulls there who don't think the whole thing through. I think they live in a bubble.

Marc At DRF

03-09-2006, 01:26 PM

I'll give this ashot...

"Someone told me with the new Formulator 4.1 version you will NOT be able to go to their website to get your files beginning in April - otherwise you will have to use a program THEY wrote simply to get the data files."

Beginning in April, or now if you want to do it now, which most Formulator users are, you just download files directly from Formulator. We're even calling it "Formulator Direct." The old way was difficult for many. You had to save your PP files from the website to a folder, then open up the software separately and locate them. While it was ok once you got used to it, we received a multitude of complaints from people who could never even figure out how to find the PP files. New version: Download and open the files all within the software, skip the whole website process. Much easier.

"I figure they'll lose at least 1/3rd of their current clients when this system fails to work a few times"

1) We've already lost way too many people the old way-- those who went as far as downloading the software but could never figure out how to access the files.
2) The new system is way more secure, way easier to use. The feedback has been overwhelmingly positive from people who have used it. It's new, so it takes some getting used to, and we've rolled it out slowly to help deal with bugs, which are dramatically less than any previous version. And Ceejay is correct, it's secure partially so people can't share files.

"Then when you have that 'problem' - you will try emailing them or calling them and they'll have to debug their program on your system. Let's face it, we know they won't be calling you and I think this thread has already shown they don't answer emails, at least not in a timely matter with real help."

GMB's situation was both reprehensible and highly unusual. Look, there's regular DRF customer service (an 800 number that answers basic questions and forwards along more sophisticated stuff to guys here in NY) and then there's the Formulator guys, at Formulatorhelp@drf.com. The latter group are very on top of it; GMB through them a curveball, they went to research it last week and they failed to get back to him. Inexcusable. GMB was taken care of with a nice subscription, but still, it sucks that he didn't get the message that it was being researched.

"It may simply be that that part of the site is down but you'll never know."

Well, the site goes down for maintenance in the middle of the night, like, a couple times a year but generally we're pretty good about staying up these days. There's two reasons why you wouldn't be able to access a file via the new version of Formulator: you're not connected to the internet (this is no different than before, but it just no longer requires you going through opening a browser, etc) or your firewall is blocking the software. Either way, you WILL know because it throws you an error message saying as much, as well as some info on where to go to learn how to adjust your firewall, etc...

"I'm also told that their program is 25MB - I figure this will take you about an hour and a half to download on a modem at 46kbs baud."

Most of our Formulator customers are on high speed connections. The trainer pattern tool, especially, temporarily grabs big files from the web, and doing it via modem is indeed time-consuming.

"Imagine when you have to download and run their new updates just to get the data."

It's a one-time deal to download the software (a couple minutes on high speed), and the updates to it are of course quicker and smaller. And the PP files themselves literally take a few seconds.

"A friend who uses the Intenet at work gets their data files - he has DSL at work and no Internet service at home (cell phone only). He copies the files to a disk and loads them onto his home computer to process. He is NOT allowed to load any software on his work computer. So if he can't go to the website to get the files then he's simply SOL. He tells me he'll be switching to Bris when that time arrives."

I don't even understand this-- how is he accessing the files from work if he isn't allowed to load any software onto his work computer?

"Someone told me that since they got bought out a couple years ago they are in deep trouble."

Like a lot of your note, you seem misinformed, and really inclined to think the worst about DRF. I'm happy to clear it up offline at mattenb@drf.com if you have any questions, but I'm opting out of this now...

Marc At DRF

03-09-2006, 01:30 PM

"So what do you do when you buy a new computer - lose access to all you files?
You aren't buying files anymore - you're renting them."

After a week, the security measure for sharing files expires. We're thinking about moving it back to 3 or 5 days, but the point is, it expires.

The one thing that we thought of, and the one downside of 4.1, is this laptop scenario where someone wants to download a file and move it to another computer. You've gotta download it from the software to the computer you're viewing it. Unless we're talking about a file for races that have already run. Sorry, fellas, but it just became too important to close some loopholes related to file-sharing.

Marc At DRF

03-09-2006, 01:33 PM

As an aside, I should also mention the whole unsupported Millennium (sp?) DB access is coming to an end April 1, too.

nomadpat

03-09-2006, 02:10 PM

Marc,

Thanks for suggesting the Formulator help email. I received a similar positive message like TonyK :)

Question regarding downloading on muliple computers: If I install Formulator 4.1 on more than one computer (like home and work), can I use each one to download the files? I don't mind downloading on each one as long as I can use it on both.

GMB@BP

03-09-2006, 02:17 PM

yes, you could download it as many times as you need to as long as you log in

JustRalph

03-09-2006, 02:50 PM

Isn't this upside down printing issue the same one that has been around for a long, long time?

I think Storm Cadet had this problem recently and couldn't solve it............

I think this is old hat..............still being ignored?

RERACING

03-09-2006, 05:42 PM

I solved the upside down problem. After I down load I stand on my head the rest of day. :D :D

GMB@BP

03-09-2006, 11:07 PM

anyone else having trouble with 4.1 crashing when you try to open a card?

Figman

03-09-2006, 11:33 PM

I solved the DRF printing problem....I use Bloodstock Reasearch files and their PP Generator software

Tom

03-10-2006, 12:36 AM

As an aside, I should also mention the whole unsupported Millennium (sp?) DB access is coming to an end April 1, too.

What does this mean? No more export function?
Franklle, I only anm interested in the export/db part of it - If I can export and move THAT file to another computer. I am happy-I don't use F3 or F4 as a program itself - DRF PP s are of absolutley no interest to me. I get far better PPs from CJ's prgram and HTR - I only buy the files to get the data. HTR hase far more info in thier PPs (BRIS too, for that matter) and CJ's are just plainly superior to Beyers.

Tom

03-10-2006, 02:09 AM

Well, iI downloaded it to try it out.

I have to say, what a POS program! DRF has hit new lows!
The POS program won't download - keeps giving error messages about can't read unzip files.
Got it to download 1 file - actually saw the file, then tried to export it, and noting went ot the directory for an export. Then the file itself was GONE!
Now, can't download anything again.

What a POS program.

Nowe, I got to thinking, why is DRF doing this?
I don't buy Marc's story aobut people not able to download files and yadda yadda - BRIS and TSN and others have been doing this for years with no problems. This POS program somehow identifies what computer it is downloading to, so I have to wonder, what OTHER stiff is it looking at/data mining? I'm sure they will deny it, but how can you trust DRF?
I suspect other info is being collected as well.
Ohm another thing - no mention of PDF file in the new POS program. Where are they now? Are they no longer part of the basic package, in other words, is this a price increase for basic packages - less for the same money?
Or are the PDF siles still available, yet somehow magically downloadable by those DRF chose to call "dummies" that can't download files?

ecaroff

03-10-2006, 06:30 AM

I'll give this ashot...

"A friend who uses the Intenet at work gets their data files - he has DSL at work and no Internet service at home (cell phone only). He copies the files to a disk and loads them onto his home computer to process. He is NOT allowed to load any software on his work computer. So if he can't go to the website to get the files then he's simply SOL. He tells me he'll be switching to Bris when that time arrives."

I don't even understand this-- how is he accessing the files from work if he isn't allowed to load any software onto his work computer?

...

I don't know why you don't understand this. Here is what he does now:
Guy uses a cell phone and does not have Internet at home.
1. He goes to work.
2. He goes out to www.drf.com (http://www.drf.com)
3. He downloads the files he needs.
4. He copies to a Disk/CD.
5. He goes home
6. He downloads files to his home computer.
7. He runs the DRF program and prints out the races he wants to bet.

On April 1, 2006:
1. He goes to work.
2. He goes out to www.drf.com (http://www.drf.com)
3. He CANNOT download the files because DRF does not have the files on their website anymore. DRF says he must download from their program which by company policy he is not allowed to install.
4. He's SOL and opens up an account with BRIS.

ecaroff

03-10-2006, 06:50 AM

NOMADPA, GMB@BP and TOM - three people have now tried the DRF software and all 3 are having problems. Need I say more?

These people are ONLY having problems with the DRF program. Wait until the complaints start coming with the install overwriting system files causing other programs on your system not to work. When I worked for industry it was standard practice not to load new software on our systems until the product was in the marketplace for at least a year so that all the "bugs" were fixed. And this was from reputable Software Companies.

ecaroff

03-10-2006, 07:13 AM

Well, iI downloaded it to try it out.

Nowe, I got to thinking, why is DRF doing this?
I don't buy Marc's story aobut people not able to download files and yadda yadda - BRIS and TSN and others have been doing this for years with no problems. This POS program somehow identifies what computer it is downloading to, so I have to wonder, what OTHER stiff is it looking at/data mining? I'm sure they will deny it, but how can you trust DRF?
I suspect other info is being collected as well.
?

Yep - I would say that is probably true. If they are doing this and then denying it they may be violating US law and in particular privacy laws. Do we have any attorneys out there?

GMB@BP

03-10-2006, 09:37 AM

for now I am giving them the benifet of doubt that they are start up bugs, the old software was great (except of the export funtion).

ceejay

03-10-2006, 09:46 AM

I suspect that the DRF calculus is that the money they were losing by file sharing warranted the expense of the upgrade (programmers aren't free) and any losses from users defecting.

I, for one, had no problems with the released upgrade, but I don't print pp's. I find F-direct easier to download than the old version. You can highlight several files in one operation and download them and open them. I don't share files with others (that would be stealing, eh) so that's no problem for me.

PaceAdvantage

03-10-2006, 09:52 AM

I don't know why you don't understand this. Here is what he does now:
Guy uses a cell phone and does not have Internet at home.

There's a really simply solution to this problem, and it has nothing to do with the DRF.....

I mean, come on....it's 2006....it's not like internet access is some mystical thing these days.....

I understand he uses his cell phone as his only phone, and maybe, for some reason, he has no access to cable or doesn't want to pony up for DSL or pay phone charges just for dial up....

But do you really expect the DRF to worry about the one guy in this world with such a unique situation?

Tom

03-10-2006, 11:23 AM

But what aboutthye many people who have a couple of macine, say desk to and lap top - now, if dowload onot one, you cannot use the file on the other. I just find it hard to swallow about so many people having problems dowmpooading when none of the other data whores have brought this up. Just HOW is DRF making sure it the same machine each time, and what other stuff are they look at on my machine?

And when your hard drive starts to fill up, what do you do with the files? They put in a nice delete feature, but a lot of people DO NOT delete the files, they save them and might want to use them at a later date.

BTW,DRF released a new versin yestterday and are releasing another this weekend, according to their help site. Tick tock.

Good BRIS was standing by for Friday cards.....:ThmbUp:

ecaroff

03-10-2006, 11:57 AM

There's a really simply solution to this problem, and it has nothing to do with the DRF.....

I mean, come on....it's 2006....it's not like internet access is some mystical thing these days.....

I understand he uses his cell phone as his only phone, and maybe, for some reason, he has no access to cable or doesn't want to pony up for DSL or pay phone charges just for dial up....

But do you really expect the DRF to worry about the one guy in this world with such a unique situation?

Do you really think he is the only guy in the world that has replaced his home phone with a cell phone? And who are you to say whether or not someone can afford a cell phone, a home phone with a DSL line? What about the guy with the laptop that DRF admitted they were ignoring? Or those with more than one computer at home? What about those that simply don't want some software installed on their machine? Seems like it is a lot of people to ignore.

I am very suspicious of DRF eliminating access over the Internet and I suspect there is more to this then simply file sharing. Why aren't Bris and others concerned? Maybe it is something like this: Remember the digital music business?

Sony CDs and the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/?p=949)
Wednesday December 21, 2005 by Ed Felten

We’ve written plenty here about the adventures of SonyBMG, First4Internet, and SunnComm/MediaMax in CD copy protection. Today, I want to consider whether the companies violated the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (http://www.panix.com/~eck/computer-fraud-act.html) (CFAA), which is the primary Federal law banning computer intrusions and malware. A CFAA violator is subject to criminal enforcement and to civil suits filed by victims.

There are two relevant provisions in the CFAA. The first one, the “spying provision”, says this:

Whoever … intentionally accesses a computer without authorization or exceeds authorized access, and thereby obtains … information from any protected computer if the conduct involved an interstate or foreign communication … shall be punished …

The second one, which I’ll call the “damage provision”, says this:

Whoever … intentionally accesses a protected computer without authorization, and as a result of such conduct, causes damage … shall be punished …

(”Protected computer” is defined in the CFAA to include nearly every computer at issue here.)

I hope they are fully aware of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. http://www.panix.com/~eck/computer-fraud-act.html .

ecaroff

03-10-2006, 12:13 PM

The answer is simple:

Maybe Marc at DRF would care to make a FULL DISCLOSURE statement here.

GMB@BP

03-10-2006, 12:47 PM

I thought about the legalities of this as well, if you purchase a card, just like a cd, you should be able to play it on multiple devices. every software has pro's and con's. the bris software does not have the chart and trainer research.

michiken

03-10-2006, 01:21 PM

As an aside, I should also mention the whole unsupported Millennium (sp?) DB access is coming to an end April 1, too.

But will it be cross platform so I can run it on Linux too?

GMB@BP

03-10-2006, 08:15 PM

ugh, messing around with this and will post an overall synopsis (which will have positives) but has anyone else noticed not only do you have to be connected to get the card you have to be continuously connected to use the software. If you download pletchers trainer file, then get out of the program and get back in you cant just quickly call it up, you have to log in again and access it. That is frustration to the enth degree. So now I download the file the night before, due umpteen hours in work, go to the track with the lap top (honestly dont do that much of anymore, but i do travel), and say I see something, I cant access the same pattern I did last night without an internet connection.

PaceAdvantage

03-10-2006, 09:23 PM

Do you really think he is the only guy in the world that has replaced his home phone with a cell phone? And who are you to say whether or not someone can afford a cell phone, a home phone with a DSL line? What about the guy with the laptop that DRF admitted they were ignoring? Or those with more than one computer at home? What about those that simply don't want some software installed on their machine? Seems like it is a lot of people to ignore.

Why would you have a computer if you don't want to install software on the damn thing?

The 'more than one computer at home thing' is a product of piracy. Plenty of software providers do not allow you to install software on more than one machine without paying extra, or jumping through hoops. This is a common practice in the industry.

I didn't say anything about someone being able to afford this and that...I don't know whether or not your friend can afford it, but it's obvious he doesn't want to spend money for internet access at home, or else he'd have internet access at home.

It isn't unreasonable for the DRF to expect people using a program which requires internet access to actually HAVE internet access on the machine where the program is running.

Tom

03-11-2006, 12:08 AM

For me, I have my main machine that never sees the internet. Anything I download gets scanned and then transfered by jump drive.

ecaroff

03-11-2006, 01:24 AM

Guess Pace Advantage has never had a virus or spyware or has never had one software program write over the files of another when installed. His computer is perfect and all of his software is perfect! I have several systems one of which never goes out to the Internet except for the latest upgrades. But first I make an image backup of the system before doing any installs. It is my master.

Am I wrong or does it seem that Pace Advantage always takes the side of Equibase (copyright issue) and now DRF? He must work for one of these organizations or is a distributor of their products.

PaceAdvantage

03-11-2006, 01:46 AM

Yes ecaroff, it's all just one giant conspiracy. 'The Man' is out to get you....

What I was trying to do was lend a little common sense (as I see it) to the argument. If you create a program which requires Internet access, it's reasonable to assume that anyone who purchases or uses your product (knowing it requires Internet access) will in fact have access to the Internet on the machine on which the software is installed.

What this has to do with viruses or spyware is beyond me. I take reasonable precautions (hardware based) and have never had any major viral incidents...and I haven't had a piece of software overwrite any other files in about 5+ years (ever since I moved to Windows 2000, which I am still using....I plan on skipping XP and going straight to Vista)

I own and operate a website which has folks posting copyrighted material every so often, so I am very sensitive to copyright issues. Sorry if I try and present all sides of the issue, especially the sides most people want to gloss over....

First I'm a shill for myself (this goes WAY back), then I'm a shill for NYRA, and now I'm a shill for both Equibase and the DRF....is there anyone who doesn't have me bought and paid for?

And if that's the case, WHERE THE HELL IS MY MONEY? :faint:

ecaroff

03-11-2006, 06:45 AM

What I was trying to do was lend a little common sense (as I see it) to the argument. If you create a program which requires Internet access, it's reasonable to assume that anyone who purchases or uses your product (knowing it requires Internet access) will in fact have access to the Internet on the machine on which the software is installed.

:faint:

All he is currently doing is printing the PP's to take to the track with him. He only needs access to the Internet to download the files. Now where is the "common sense" you refer to?

03-11-2006, 07:10 AM

If all he is doing is printing, can't he still just get PDF files?

ecaroff

03-11-2006, 09:06 AM

Don't think so - I think he said the download and installation of the program would be required. However, I thought he did say something about using Excel to do some calculations of speed ratings, etc. in which case I think he would need to get the individual files, but to be honest with you I really don't know. All I know is that he is really "pissed off" by the whole thing. I'm sure he's looked into it.

Tom

03-11-2006, 10:57 AM

I don't see an option for anything but F3 or F4 files to download. If they offer PDF file thorugh the internet, wouldn't that be rather stupid, since people don't know how to download file to begin with?:D

But if they stop offering PDF, then the cost of the basic package in effect is going up because you now get less for your money.

To me, it won't matter - I will never renew for an unlimited package again - and I have done that for a few years now. DRP PPs just are just not worth that money - BRIS PPs have far more info in them, and the Beyers were alright as transitional speed figures, but they are essentially a proiduct of the 70's - the NEW speed figs/erformance figs are now the way, the truth, the light. :rolleyes:

ecaroff

03-11-2006, 11:59 AM

Tom - I agree. Beyers numbers were always flawed from the beginning for a number of reasons. He was just the first guy out there who got noticed that developed something like this. There were others doing the same but Beyers got the credit. Programmers and computers with new calculations and analysis passed up Beyers long ago.

It's like I said before - the DRF people live in a bubble. They expect everyone to have a computer, a home phone, a SINGLE computer I might add not two or three, a DSL line and they expect everyone to be computer educated. And they then think that their product is the best and everyone will use it. I have never seen Formulator 4 so I can't comment on it but trying to force everyone to use it with all the firewalls they are putting up is just too much to expect. Like I said previously, I think they will end up losing a lot of customers and pick up very few new people in return. Removing the files from the site is about as absurd as it gets. Marc at DRF tried to say they lost customers because people couldn't figure out how to download the files from the Internet and then run the program. This is pure "bullshit". This is not rocket science nor is it different from anyone elses system out there. Maybe, just maybe it's just the way DRF has designed their site. I remember long ago (don't know whether it's the case now or not) but if you turned off your pop-ups and cookies the banner at the top was no longer visable and you couldn't even logon to their system. They actually made the logon box a pop-up............. Really smart.

Snag

03-12-2006, 01:03 PM

I just downloaded the "upgrade". I thought I might see if there was anything I was downloading that I didn't want and also after reading some posts here. I'm not sure what I have now. Here is what I did:

1. Ran full scan and deleted all cookies.

2. Saved the downloaded file to a temp file on my C drive.

3. Ran full scan again. No new cookies.

4. Installed the upgrade from my temp file.

5. Ran full scan again. No new cookies.

6. Downloaded a file for today using the upgrade.

7. Ran full scan again. Two cookies found: Double Click and QuestionMarket.com

Anyone know what these are? They were not marked as harmful. For the scan, I used both my Norton and Yahoo Anti Spy programs.

ecaroff

03-12-2006, 02:27 PM

I just downloaded the "upgrade". I thought I might see if there was anything I was downloading that I didn't want and also after reading some posts here. I'm not sure what I have now. Here is what I did:

7. Ran full scan again. Two cookies found: Double Click and QuestionMarket.com

Anyone know what these are? They were not marked as harmful. For the scan, I used both my Norton and Yahoo Anti Spy programs.

You did good!

QuestionMarket is for the purpose of tracking a user's surfing history.
http://www3.ca.com/securityadvisor/pest/pest.aspx?id=453068357

DoubleClick is a mainstream ad network that uses tracking cookies to target advertising.
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=260660

However, you may have picked this up from somewhere else, not necessarily from DRF. What concerns me is NOT the cookies but code they may put into your registry or in you system directory in the way of a program. It is not easy to determine. You may want to do a google search on "Rootkit"

Sony BMG Music Entertainment distributed a copy-protection scheme with music CDs that secretly installed a rootkit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rootkit) on computers. This software tool is run without your knowledge or consent -- if it's loaded on your computer with a CD, a hacker can gain and maintain access to your system and you wouldn't know it.

Symantec, of Cupertino, Calif., is the second commercial company caught in the flap over the use of rootkit-type techniques to hide files on computers. Rootkits are programs that are used to give a remote user access to a compromised system while avoiding detection from security scanners.

It's an epic of class-action lawsuits (http://news.com.com/Why+they+say+spyware+is+good+for+you/2010-1071_3-5934150.html) in California (http://business.bostonherald.com/technologyNews/view.bg?articleid=111622) and elsewhere (http://www.boingboing.net/2005/11/09/wanna_sue_the_pants_.html), and the focus of criminal (http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,106064,00.html?source=NLT_PM&nid=106064) investigations. The rootkit has even been found on computers run by the Department of Defense.

Unless DRF makes a Full Disclosure of what their program does I would be very suspicious, especially when they are going to take the ability to download off the website. I simply ask, WHY?

Snag

03-12-2006, 06:04 PM

ecaroff, I didn't visit any other site between steps 5 & 7. Plus, I had deleted all my cookies before I started.

I do appreciate the links for the info on the cookies. Very interesting.

After I did my little test, I did learn something else about the new upgrade. If you exceed your plan for the day (I'm cheap and just use the Daily Plan), you are redirected to the old web site download page on their web site to get the additional files. You have to sign in again. Not very convenient.

LaughAndBeMerry

03-12-2006, 07:21 PM

IMHO, It's an interesting piece of software but it's got way too many bugs (and I subscribe to the formulator files)

1) It crashes during nearly every session I'm using it, usually when it tries to access the DRF DB. Has happened on every computer I've used, new and old, desktop and laptop, HP, Compaq and Sony.

2)The track diagram always prints upside down not matter what printer I use.

3) The queries are often wrong. Try querying "First time starters & First Time Turf" and then First time starters / Turf. You'll often get different results. I've had the same problem when querying trainer changes.

Again, I'm not bashing it. I'm been a formulator subscriber since it's inception. There are some cool things you can do with it, but on the whole it performs no better than something from the old Sartin days.

LBM

ecaroff

03-14-2006, 06:34 AM

Nothing yet from Marc at Drf. Will he make a full disclosure of their program?

Marc At DRF

03-14-2006, 10:24 AM

Ecaroff and Tom,

There is no spyware or anything else of that nature as a part of Formulator. As for some of the other comments, PA's and CeeJay's responses are reasonably helpful, and anyone else who is having tech problems, again, try Formulatorhelp@drf.com. When we launched 4.0, it was a massive change and there were a ton of issues. On 4.1, it's been miniscule in comparison... If you want to open a file for a racecard that has yet to be run, you gotta download it directly to the machine that you want to look at it on. That's certainly going to affect a few people, and we're sorry for the hassle, but we can't have massive file sharing going on. And hell no, we're not getting rid of basic PDFs. I'd like to continue, but I expect that to get shouted down here. Again, if you need tech help, use the e-mail address above.

Alan Wight

03-14-2006, 01:14 PM

If you want to open a file for a racecard that has yet to be run, you gotta download it directly to the machine that you want to look at it on. That's certainly going to affect a few people, and we're sorry for the hassle, but we can't have massive file sharing going on.

Marc,
This doesn't seem to bode well for the plans for DRF comma delimited chart files. Are they still forthcoming this quarter?

Marc At DRF

03-14-2006, 01:25 PM

comma charts nothing to do with Formulator. They are coming soon.

Tom

03-14-2006, 11:35 PM

My copy is still not usable - cannot open race cards or export them because the little [X] doesn't show up in the pop up window everytime. My version is Friday, the 10th......anyone have a newer version? Glad my unlimieted sub is coming to an end soon.... this dog don't hunt.

I would think that when DRFmakes chages to a program, they would somehow identifiy it, like 4.101, 4.102...etc.

ecaroff

03-15-2006, 06:21 AM

Tom, I guess you're going to be one of those people that Marc at DRF doesn't care about.

ceejay

03-15-2006, 09:59 AM

Tom,

I'm running 4.01.09. Go to help-about formulator for your version ID. I don't think that there have been any updates for a few weeks....

Tom

03-15-2006, 10:47 AM

OK, I'll give credit where it's due - Lonnie at DRf - extremely helpful, courteous guy, got me workling this morning. This guy is what Customer Service is all about.

What youneed to dois make sure your open racecards foler is the same folder as export, becasue it needs to knwo werhe to get the raw file from. I had changed export to, uh, export folder.
Tip 'o the Darby to Lonnie at DRf.

Alan Wight

03-15-2006, 03:40 PM

comma charts nothing to do with Formulator. They are coming soon.

Good.

Any details available, yet? Price, for example?

Marc At DRF

03-15-2006, 04:19 PM

Honestly, I haven't even looked at the pricing for awhile. I remember it being expensive and in league with our basic PPs, not much less. Mostly driven around unlimited monthly/quarterly/annual type plans.

Alan Wight

03-15-2006, 05:47 PM

Would they include all of the information in the result charts, including turf rail settings, all fractions, etc.? In other words, any difference from the chart info?

Would they also include Beyers?

Alan Wight

03-15-2006, 06:19 PM

Just a few more questions:

Will “old” charts have the same price as “new” ones; will there be a discount rate for buying a bunch of “old” charts?
When an error is corrected in the charts after they have been released, will there be a notification?
If Beyers are included, will there be an update available when a figure is changed?
Will the format be like Bris (data repeated in every line) or Trackmaster: (data for race, horse and exotics all on separate lines)?

Marc At DRF

03-16-2006, 11:33 AM

Alan,

All data in the print chart will be in the comma chart.

Pricing discounts not finalized.

When there is a correction to a chart the data will be replaced on the
site but it will be up to the customer to download the data again (no
notifications). Let me see if I can figure out a way to automate e-mail notifications of this...

The comma delimited chart does not include Beyer data; The DRF has a
separate feed of Beyer data, though we can look at some sort of super-chart type deal.

The format will be closer to Trackmaster.

Marc At DRF

03-16-2006, 01:19 PM

Alan,

Possible solution on corrected charts will be to place all the corrected charts within a folder by calendar day.

Alan Wight

03-16-2006, 01:34 PM

Thanks Marc.

DRF used to re-print at least some charts when an error was corrected, but this practice hasn't been followed, at least in Simulcast Weekly, for some time.

One more question: regarding the unlimited downloads: would that be like the Equibase plan, where all dates are available for downloads, not just the more recent files? Or would files only be available to download for a limited time? If the latter, would there be some sort of startup package?

Tom

03-27-2006, 11:12 PM

Update - they have issued a slew of updates to F4.1 and the latest is something like xxx.017. When you donwload a newer version, none of the older files you downloaded previously will work anymore. It will tell you you did not download it to this computer, even if you did. Nice way to treat HONEST customers. eh?

My advice, don't buy too many files ahead of time - only a few days to go before this albatross program is mandatory and they still do not have it right. And everytime you update, you lose everything.

Mark, ole buddy.....making all those hundreds and hundreds of files I bough and paid for legally, and did not STEAL, are now worthless??? Explain your marketing strategy to me - is it your intent to screw loyal customers?:mad:

ecaroff

03-28-2006, 10:53 AM

I tried to warn everyone that there would be lots of problems.

I think people here that use their stuff need to let DRF management know and put some pressure on them. This whole project is going to cost DRF lots of customers and dollars and I can't imagine they will pick up many new customers, especially novice computer users. A suggestion would be to go Beta for the next year and offer people a discount for using it. This would give them time to get all the bugs out and get everyone converted over if that is their goal. I just can't believe they are doing all of this just because of the file sharing issue. Doesn't seem that none of the other companies are all that concerned. I think the first think that should have been done is a marketing study to determine if there even is a problem with file sharing. I think they just have someone there making decisions who really doesn't know or understand the customer, let alone computers. By the way, it is my understanding that Marc at DRF was a DJ and Music Director only a short time ago - do a google search - his resume is out there. Nothing wrong with this but he's not a marketing or computer person nor does he have a long history in betting or handicapping the ponies - just thought you'd all like to know.

Tim

03-28-2006, 03:27 PM

Tom,

I just uninstalled the Formulator 4.1 version on my computer (from 3/17), downloaded the latest (3/28) from the drf and installed it.
I was able to open and export older drf2 races cards without any problems. I tried 2 AQU cards from each meet going back to 2000.

My subscription is for Formulator Basic.

Are you uninstalling the existing Formulator program before installing the new download? I was having a lot of problems until I started doing that.

Tim

Tom

03-28-2006, 03:33 PM

Tim,

Thaks. I did not uninstall the old version - DRF said it was not required.
I have decided to completely abandon DRF in favor of BRIS - much more data and much cheaper and reliable.

traynor

03-28-2006, 04:32 PM

Tom wrote: <But what aboutthye many people who have a couple of macine, say desk to and lap top - now, if dowload onot one, you cannot use the file on the other. I just find it hard to swallow about so many people having problems dowmpooading when none of the other data whores have brought this up. Just HOW is DRF making sure it the same machine each time, and what other stuff are they look at on my machine?>

A number of software vendors claim that "single use" software is just that; you are not "permitted" to make a backup of that software for your own use, or even to backup the hard-drive on which the software is installed. That includes the typical RAID configuration using two hardrives on one machine, with all files saved to one automatically being saved to the other. Despite the fact that it is the same user AND the same machine, the argument is that "the software cannot be copied."
Good Luck