Interesting read re: New Orleans hurricane

[RXB]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060301.wkatrina0301/BNStory/International/home

[Light]

[We don't need to fear another 9/11. We need to fear our sociopathically lying president.

[ljb]

Too bad we cannot impeach based on incompetence. :D

[Tom]

It is a shame. That racist pig of a mayor Naygin dserved to be impeached and jailed for his total incompetence prior to Katrin. The moron FAILED to vacuate in time and FAILED to provide for any evacuation at all. This jerk is the direct cause of many deaths. Glad you are on board on this, Ljb.....

[GaryG]

[We don't need to fear another 9/11. We need to fear our sociopathically lying president.The democrat that was pres before GWB seems to have lied about a few things....while under oath yet.

[betchatoo]

When Clinton lied nobody died

[lsbets]

[We don't need to fear another 9/11. We need to fear our sociopathically lying president.

As opposed to that nice group of community volunteers that you admire, Hezbollah.

[Secretariat]

I don't know why Nagin is shocked. It is a shock to me when GW actually tells the truth.

Nagin "shocked" by pre-Katrina Bush video
Reuters - Wed Mar 1, 10:23 PM ET

NEW ORLEANS - New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin said on Wednesday he was shocked by video showing U.S. President George W. Bush being told the day before Hurricane Katrina hit that the city's protective levees could fail. The tape contradicts the president's statement four days after the hurricane struck: "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees."

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/US/Hurricane_Katrina/

[hurrikane]

I'm always hesitant to get involved with this discussion but from a first hand point of view with no vested interest.

I sat in some of these meetings, I was involved with all of this from the beginning. My entire team was sitting here 2 days before asking why the hell the governor and the mayor were not evacuating these people.

Tom has it right. Nagin should be charged with criminal negligence for not evacuating people on buses and not allowing people to evacuate on trains.
Not calling for mandatory evacuations in time to evacuate. Not knowing there would be a substantial block of people that did not have the means, either mental or physical, to evacuate, and then, to this day and most of all, for pointing the finger at everyone else for the problems.

The press, polititians (Dems and Rep) up for reelection, all want to blame FEMA and the Fed. It is the states responsibility to evacuate. Not the Federal Gov. It is the incompetence of the legislators in the State of La and the Mayor of NO that caused many of the problems. That is number one, the press is number two. the magintude of the event it number 3 and then maybe the Fed. Certainly the public owns a big piece of this for believing every piece of bullshit that is reported as news.

[Tom]

It was pretty much common knowledge that the levees were at risk. I knew here in NY. So did they in NO - they ran a simulation the year befrore.

Ray-baby needs to keep better track of goings on in "Chocolate Town!":bang:

[GaryG]

Hurrikane: Thanks for the on the spot observations. How is it going with the Mexican workers? Last I heard they were still there helping to rebuild. Think they will stay?

[hurrikane]

Gary,
They have everywhere else, why not there.

Then what will it be? Mocha town?

[GaryG]

Gary,
They have everywhere else, why not there.

Then what will it be? Mocha town?I really admire them for doing the work. So then the residents that are snoozing in hotel rooms in Atlanta and Houston will come home to San Antone on the bayou. This opens endless possibilities, combining Mardi Gras with Cinco de Mayo maybe? Crawfish tacos? Hey that sounds pretty tasty...:jump:

[lsbets]

Have you ever had a crawfish taco? They're good!

[GaryG]

Have you ever had a crawfish taco? They're good!No I just made that one up. Making me hungry. I had shrimp tacos in Guaymas.

[ljb]

This should really be of no suprise to anyone. When Bush got word "Osama Determined to Strike in U.S." just prior to 9/11 he went golfing. Keep this in mind, no matter what the emergency the vacation at the ranch takes priority.

[PaceAdvantage]

Hurrikane, thanks for giving us a little bit of insight...I for one appreciate it...

[Secretariat]

GW's priority during Katrina.

[PaceAdvantage]

Thanks hurrikane for your post of substance and clarity.

[Tom]

Sec, you got a photo of "Nutlerss Naygin" during Katrina?

Where was he hiding out again?

[schweitz]

Gov. Blanco assured the Bush administration that the levees were intact---

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/K/KATRINA_VIDEO?SITE=7219&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&TIME=2006-03-02-21-56

[tahoesid]

It is interesting that they say this video was the day before the hurricane hit, but according to all reports Bush had already declared an emergency on Friday 3 days before it hit...some inconsistensies...and all this has already been hashed over by Congress and is nothing new...just another way for the so-called media to try to rewrite what actually happened.


The President today declared an emergency exists in the State of Louisiana and ordered Federal aid to supplement state and local response efforts in the parishes located in the path of Hurricane Katrina beginning on August 26, 2005, and continuing

August 29

• 4 a.m.: Hurricane Katrina is downgraded to a strong Category 4 storm.

• 7 a.m.: Katrina makes landfall on the Louisiana coast between Grand Isle and the mouth of the Mississippi River.


http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html

[Suff]

Here's one of the few things I will say about N.O. for now.


It's the whole Gulf Coast to begin with ok? You see New Oreeans because it is the large urban area. From the Texas Border to the Florida Pan Handle is in utter chaos.

When you think about what happened here it is important for perspectice.

An area the size of Manhattan went under water. While also being subjected to storm surges in the 25 to 40 foot range. The city was 90% evacuated. Thats not to bad considering they only had 2-4 days of serious warnings.

No one...Not State, local or Federal could completely understand how bad things might have been. I give everybody one "get out of jail free card" on one premise. We're humans....and this thing was beyond us.

As far as a political statement? I'll tie it into this ridicolous WAR on TERROR that has tipped our society upside down, and turned 3/4'rs of the world against us.

George Bush and Dick Cheney keep telling me that we are under siege. The "terrorists" will set off a NUKE! A suit case bomb. Or Attack us with Chemical weapons. Likely NYC, D.C or LA. Those three citys are 10 times the size of New Orleans. And New Orleans was 90!% evacuated..

I'm pretty sure that if Bush is right... We won't get 2-4 days warning of a Nuclear attack on NYC? So if the dept of homeland security and FEMA struggled so badly to get 100 thousand people out of new orleans, how prepared are they to get 11 million out of NYC? or 4 Million out of DC? And maybe another 3 million out of neighboring baltimore.

The answer is they are not.. they were not and they never tried to be ready. Because they blow smoke... ..

[46zilzal]

Frontline had a show about it and the ONLY once in the history of FEMA has there been a head of that department with ANY expereince in what the job calls for. Talk about political appointees who know nothing!

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm pretty sure that if Bush is right... We won't get 2-4 days warning of a Nuclear attack on NYC? So if the dept of homeland security and FEMA struggled so badly to get 100 thousand people out of new orleans, how prepared are they to get 11 million out of NYC? or 4 Million out of DC? And maybe another 3 million out of neighboring baltimore.

The answer is they are not.. they were not and they never tried to be ready. Because they blow smoke... ..

One CAN'T be ready, EVER, for the situation you describe.

Perhaps this is the very reason WHY they keep hammering home the point that we are under seige...for the very reason that it will be IMPOSSIBLE to evacuate OR mitigate in any way the effects of a terrorist attack such as you describe above.

Don't you see? NOBODY, except for Superman himself (only if he were to turn back time by reversing the Earth's spin) could evacuate NYC in case of a terrorist attack with WMDs....

The idea is to PREVENT it from happening in the first place. We witness daily the way THIS administration goes about their prevention. So far, it has worked...no attacks. Is there a better way? Almost certainly.....there is ALWAYS a better way for everything....

[ljb]

The idea is to PREVENT it from happening in the first place. We witness daily the way THIS administration goes about their prevention. So far, it has worked...no attacks. Is there a better way? Almost certainly.....there is ALWAYS a better way for everything....
PDB
"Osama Determind to Strike in U.S."
Response, a round of golf. No attacks?

[ljb]

As far as a political statement? I'll tie it into this ridicolous WAR on TERROR that has tipped our society upside down, and turned 3/4'rs of the world against us.

George Bush and Dick Cheney keep telling me that we are under siege. The "terrorists" will set off a NUKE! A suit case bomb. Or Attack us with Chemical weapons. Likely NYC, D.C or LA. Those three citys are 10 times the size of New Orleans. And New Orleans was 90!% evacuated..

I'm pretty sure that if Bush is right... We won't get 2-4 days warning of a Nuclear attack on NYC? So if the dept of homeland security and FEMA struggled so badly to get 100 thousand people out of new orleans, how prepared are they to get 11 million out of NYC? or 4 Million out of DC? And maybe another 3 million out of neighboring baltimore.

The answer is they are not.. they were not and they never tried to be ready. Because they blow smoke... ..
Ah yes Suff but,
We are building fighter jets @ $333 million a piece. While our fighting men and women in Iraq are still buying some of their personal equipment. These jets are the biggest waste of gov't money in history and will do nothing to prevent some whacko from crossing our porous borders with a briefcase size nuke or chemical wmd or putting such a device in an uninspected cargo container entering our country through a port run by a foreign country.

[Tom]

PDB
"Osama Determind to Strike in U.S."
Response, a round of golf. No attacks?


OBL..that the same OBL that Clinton had in the crosshairs and didn't take out, because he was afraid of offending nearby muslem rich people? thought so.
Get your head out of the past - you cannot judge actions of the past using tody's knowledge. You are the perfect example of the ignorance of the left - you whine and cry aobut Bush not preventing 9-11 and at the same time, you whine and cry when he does something about it today. If we do indeed have another major attack on our soil, it will at least partly to blame because of people like you.

[Tom]

Ah yes Suff but,
We are building fighter jets @ $333 million a piece. While our fighting men and women in Iraq are still buying some of their personal equipment. These jets are the biggest waste of gov't money in history and will do nothing to prevent some whacko from crossing our porous borders with a briefcase size nuke or chemical wmd or putting such a device in an uninspected cargo container entering our country through a port run by a foreign country.

And when China attacks, you will first in line whining that we didn't prepare for this attack - we didn't have the air defense we needed to protect us.

[Secretariat]

OBL..that the same OBL that Clinton had in the crosshairs and didn't take out, because he was afraid of offending nearby muslem rich people? thought so.


No, it's the same OBL that GW had in his sites but didn't take him out because he didn't want to upset the UAE delegates visting with the Taliban.

[lsbets]

The opening of all the stories said that Bush was warned about the levees breaching. Well, last night the AP issued a correction, clarifying that Bush had not been warned about the levees breaching, but had been warned about the levees topping. A breach is when they break, like they did in this storm, and all the water floods into the city. Topping is when the storm surge sends water over the top of the levees and flooding is limited to the height of the surge above the levees. That is what everyone had been concerned about, and contrary to media and partisan reports, none of the talk before the storm was about the levees failing as they did. Here's the AP correction:

http://drudgereport.com/flash3.htm

"The Army Corps of Engineers considers a breach a hole developing in a levee rather than an overrun. The story should have made clear that Bush was warned about floodwaters overrunning the levees, rather than the levees breaking."

[46zilzal]

wasn't the outcome the same? semantics

[lsbets]

wasn't the outcome the same? semantics

Actually its not semantics. Had the levees merely been topped, the flooding in New Orleans would have been limited and the damage would not have been anything close to what it was. You're a smart guy, at least you tell us you are, so think about it. If you have a 10 foot wall and 12 feet of water, 2 feet of water gets over the wall and disperses on the other side. If the wall collapses, all 12 feet of water spreads itself out over both areas until the water level stabilizes. So its not a matter of semantics. Topping and beaching are two totally different things.

[tahoesid]

Outcome is not even close to being the same. Some water over the top is quite a bit different than all the water coming in.

[Tom]

Actually its not semantics. Had the levees merely been topped, the flooding in New Orleans would have been limited and the damage would not have been anything close to what it was. You're a smart guy, at least you tell us you are, so think about it. If you have a 10 foot wall and 12 feet of water, 2 feet of water gets over the wall and disperses on the other side. If the wall collapses, all 12 feet of water spreads itself out over both areas until the water level stabilizes. So its not a matter of semantics. Topping and beaching are two totally different things.

And, if Willy Wonka Naygin had evacuated the city in time, reather than waiting until too late, to keep casino money flowing in, there would have hardly anyone left there to be in peril.
Yes, the feds did a bad job, but they did a bad job fixing a disastor caused entirely by local idiots.

[GaryG]

I can't help but compare this to the reaction of some of those underveloped Asian countries to the tsunami...They got to work and rebuilt as best they could without much help. They didn't have Atlanta and Houston hotel rooms to go to.

[hurrikane]

Or hotel rooms they won't leave 6 months after it's over.