P.A. Downs to host its first contest - $350 Cash Prize

[PaceAdvantage]

OK, I know $350 isn't much, but this will be the first time a cash prize will be paid out by PaceAdvantage.Com.....

Here's the idea as it was first presented to me by fellow board member ROKITMAN and further tweaked by me to turn it into a contest.....(extra special thanks goes out to GameTheory for tweaking the script!)

Starting March 4, 2006, I will choose two races every weekend, one for Saturday and one for Sunday. These races will be chosen with the idea that they are contentious, difficult races, and will have a purse requirement of at least $100,000. Preferably, they will also be graded races, but this is not a necessity.

The races in question will be placed on the P.A. Downs (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/vbookie.php?) page sometime on Friday for Saturday's race, and again sometime on Saturday for Sunday's race.
Using your virtual cash (all registered users will receive 3000 vCash points at the start of the contest) you will place win bets on the horse or horses you think will win the designated contest races You may bet as much or as little as you want. You can even decide not to play a race or races. It's entirely up to you how often to wager. The contest will conclude after a total of 30 races have been played.

The person with the most vCash at the end of the contest will win a prize of $350 cash, payable through PayPal. In case of a tie or ties, the money will be split evenly.

In the event a race or races are cancelled, for whatever reason, there will be no makeup race for that particular weekend. We will simply run the contest until we get 30 races under our belt. If there aren't any cancellations, the contest is scheduled to conclude Belmont Stakes weekend.

Virtual wagering for each race will close on the half-hour before listed post time. What that means is that if a race is designated to go off at 5:30pm, wagering will close at 5:00pm. A 5:15pm post time will close at 5:00pm. If post time is close to a half-hour mark, say a 5:03pm post time, then it will close at 4:30pm. The races will be clearly marked when wagering closes.

Of course, the contest is free and open to all registered members of PaceAdvantage.Com. However, there is a catch...

By the end of the contest, you must have at least 100 message board posts to your credit, or you will be disqualified from any prize money. Posts in the SELECTIONS forum and the OFF-TOPIC forums do NOT count towards your 100 minimum. Winners' posts will be reviewed carefully, and if you have tons of posts consisting of nothing more than "I agree" or "Great post!" or posts of that sort, they will not be counted towards your 100 minimum, no matter where they are posted. These requirements are in place to discourage folks from playing multiple entries under multiple user names.

If management (ME) has any reason to believe a user is playing in this contest under multiple screen names, that user will be disqualified from any prize money. All decisions by the judges (ME) will be considered final. Of course, I will be playing along in this contest, but I am ineligible to win any prize money along with any members of my immediate (and not so immediate) family.

I'm sure I'm missing something here, so if you have any good rule changes or additions, feel free to post them here. Public comments on this contest will close Thursday March 2.....

Also, I will be putting up some test races from Aqueduct Wednesday and Thursday to make sure the system is bug free....look for them and place some bets. Don't worry if you lose your vCash money, as all accounts will be replenished before the real contest starts this Saturday.....

Whatcha think?

[PaceAdvantage]

And oh yeah....one more rule....Although the contest is open to all registered members of PaceAdvantage.Com, it is only open to members in good standing. If you happen to be banned from the board at any point during the contest, you will forfeit your claim to any prize money, should you win.

[PaceAdvantage]

I forgot the most important point.....

The odds that will be displayed while betting is open will be the MORNING LINE ODDS. They will not change during the period of time that betting is open.

Once the race goes off and wagering closes, I will alter the odds to reflect the FINAL BETTING ODDS as reported by Equibase. It is these FINAL REAL TRACK ODDS that payoffs will be based on.

[DJofSD]

PA, will alternate selections be allowed for (1) if the primary selection scratches, and/or (2) you want to dutch multiple selections for the win?

[railbird]

I agree , sounds Great :jump: :jump: :cool:

I hope this counts

[PaceAdvantage]

PA, will alternate selections be allowed for (1) if the primary selection scratches, and/or (2) you want to dutch multiple selections for the win?

Scratches will be refunded, but only after the race is over. So, just like the racetrack, if you can get another bet down in time after you find out about a scratch (and you have enough vCash left), more power to you....

You can dutch....you can bet every horse in the race if you want....

The test race is up if you guys want to fool around....another race will be put up from Aqueduct a little later....

[BillW]

Mike,

Do you want to set a minimum number of wagers required to qualify for the prize? (or did I miss this in the rules ?)

[Light]

PA

Are the 100 message board posts that are required for win eligbility retroactive since you've been a member or do you have to make 100 posts from the date this contest starts till it ends?

[mainardi]

By the end of the contest, you must have at least 100 message board posts to your credit, or you will be disqualified from any prize money. Posts in the SELECTIONS forum and the OFF-TOPIC forums do NOT count towards your 100 minimum. Winners' posts will be reviewed carefully, and if you have tons of posts consisting of nothing more than "I agree" or "Great post!" or posts of that sort, they will not be counted towards your 100 minimum, no matter where they are posted. These requirements are in place to discourage folks from playing multiple entries under multiple user names.
Mike, where does it show how many "qualifying" posts we have? For long-time members it won't matter, but I'm guessing that most people near the cutoff (yes, like me) don't keep records on which forums they've posted. Please let us know where we can look to get the "qualifying" post counts.

Also, what would you say to paying out the $250 to the top three? You know, something like $150/$75/$25? Just thinking out loud...

[PaceAdvantage]

PA

Are the 100 message board posts that are required for win eligbility retroactive since you've been a member or do you have to make 100 posts from the date this contest starts till it ends?

They are retroactive....

I should add that for the purposes of this contest, anyone who registered on this board before this contest was announced (WEDNESDAY, MARCH 1, 2006 at 1:00am ET) will be grandfathered in, and will not have to have 100 posts by contest end. Only those folks who register from this point on will have to meet the 100 post minimum.

Thanks for pointing that out...

[PaceAdvantage]

Mike, where does it show how many "qualifying" posts we have? For long-time members it won't matter, but I'm guessing that most people near the cutoff (yes, like me) don't keep records on which forums they've posted. Please let us know where we can look to get the "qualifying" post counts.

Also, what would you say to paying out the $250 to the top three? You know, something like $150/$75/$25? Just thinking out loud...

I think my grandfather clause addresses your first point.

Your second point -- $250 ain't much, so I thought that splitting it among the top 3 might be diluting it too much. We have plenty of time to settle this...perhaps a poll will decide how the money is distributed....

[PaceAdvantage]

Mike,

Do you want to set a minimum number of wagers required to qualify for the prize? (or did I miss this in the rules ?)

Perhaps....do you think someone is going to place all 3000 on a longshot and hope for the best? I'm not much of a contest player....so those with experience, what type of restrictions or minimums would you place on a WIN ONLY contest such as this one that lasts for 30 races?

[BillW]

Perhaps....do you think someone is going to place all 3000 on a longshot and hope for the best? I'm not much of a contest player....so those with experience, what type of restrictions or minimums would you place on a WIN ONLY contest such as this one that lasts for 30 races?

I'd play $2 on the first race and leave the breakeven BR ride :cool:

[mainardi]

Perhaps....do you think someone is going to place all 3000 on a longshot and hope for the best? I'm not much of a contest player....so those with experience, what type of restrictions or minimums would you place on a WIN ONLY contest such as this one that lasts for 30 races?
I'm not so worried about the one-time punter.

The "rules" really depend on what you want the contest to prove.

If you're looking for the person that can win the most vCash, then leave it wide-open. If you want to find out who grinds the best, you might enforce a "win-only" or "no exotics" format.

Not that I follow each and every tournament, but it SEEMS like most of them go with the "no exotics" format. Even those have some variation, and here's how they could apply to your contest. For example, you could cap the amount wagered to 200 vCash units per race. Also, you could force the same bet type for all races (win-only, win-place, etc.). :confused:

The possibilities are nearly limitless... but I wouldn't lose sleep over the decision... your contest, your rules... you won't make everyone happy, so you might as well be happy with your decision. :)

[BillW]

Mike,

On the P.A.Downs/info page - horse #'s displayed are post positions and not prgm. #'s

Bill

[Suff]

jesus bill. 2 (or 3) post (s) in the same day?. Wadda yea gut a house full of sumthin-sumthin done there houston tonight ? :lol:


I can be there in moments

[BillW]

jesus bill. 2 (or 3) post (s) in the same day?. Wadda yea gut a house full of sumthin-sumthin done there houston tonight ? :lol:


I can be there in moments

Nah, guess I'm getting bored while packing.

[PaceAdvantage]

Mike,

On the P.A.Downs/info page - horse #'s displayed are post positions and not prgm. #'s

Bill

For race 8 at Aqueduct, you are correct.....sorry about that....that's why I am putting up these test races....thanks for pointing that out!

[PaceAdvantage]

Keep on topic, or the posts get deleted. Last time I say that.

[PaceAdvantage]

For the record, I will be putting together a formal list of rules for the contest after I get everyone's ideas here....the more I think about it, the more it seems like a minimum number of 'races played' and/or minimum amount of 'vCash bet' should be imposed....or else you're right, someone could just sit on their chips and hope everyone else tanks....

So, what are some good numbers?

[rastajenk]

I just made a couple plays on the Aqueduct races, and I have to say I'm impressed with the layout, the ease, the user-friendliness of it. I think the parameters should be based on what kinds of tweaks and controls you have to make managing the contest as easy as possible. For example, if we decided that a participant must play 20 of the 30 races, and have a bet total of 50% of his original stake, would that be easy to track? Or very time consuming.

[sjk]

I for one do not ever bet turf races so if there is a minimum number of races to bet I would hope it would not be so high that I would be automatically excluded.

[Murph]

Hello PA,

I've played in several contests (live and online) and would throw out a couple of ideas for your contest. You might consider a 2/3 total of contest plays be required. For a 30 races contest you must make v-cash wagers for 20 of those races to qualify for top prize.

If you are concened about longshot stabbers, an odds cap is an effective way of equalizing that type of play. At NHC VII and many of the qualifying events they cap the winners odds as 42.00 for win and 22.00 for place.

Those steps will prevent an early leader from running out and sitting on a lead. If someone chooses to do so, they will have to make 2/3 of the total plays to win. This splits the edge gained by winning early and requires the early leader to decide how to make the remaining plays, safe or stretch.

The odds cap definately discourages stabbers who may attempt to win with a couple of 40-1 or 60-1 shots getting home in front. If you are able to hit enough longshots in 30 plays and overcome the cap,then more power to you. This rule makes a 20-1 pay the same as a 50-1, so set any cap at your preference.

A wagering limit can be part of the contest rules as well. Any wager limit introduces a money management strategy into the winning mix and can be set at % of bankroll or a flat bet limit high or low. Again your preference. In some recent qualifying contests, they are trying real money wagering results. These games often have NO wagering limits and leave bankroll management to the player. Either way consider a mention in the rules for tapping out and losing your entire roll.

This looks like some fun! I'm interested to see how v-bookie will hold up to the pounding we are about to put on it.

Murph

[Niko]

I'd have to second the points brought up by Murph. Otherwise you get late into the contest and someone throws all their money at a 40-1 or 50-1 and gets lucky on one race. Or does so in the beginning and sits on it. I like the cap at around 30-1 but all the contests do 20-1. If the goal is only most money at the end then you don't need any other rules.. If the goal is to combine handicapping ability and money management together than you need a min/max wagering rule with an odds cap. That could hurt the dutchers as they can risk a higher percentage of bankroll on a race so you might have to cap the min/max on any one horse. I'd say a max of 300 on a horse (10%) of initial bet but it depends on the goals of the contest. No matter what you'll never meet everyone's handicapping strengths so you just have to decide.
If it goes well you can always try a second format later.

[Zaf]

Love the contest idea PA !

I agree with the others about some kind of cap.

Z

[OTM Al]

This is very cool. Of course I love contests, so I'd play it for nothing

[BetHorses!]

Excellent :ThmbUp:

[stuball]

:jump: :jump: I like the idea of a cap at $42-52 win and $21-26 place with a min bet of 2.5% of CURRENT bankroll and max of 10% of ORIGINAL bankroll. that way if someone hits early and wants to sit on his lead....he is forced to a higher min...Win -- Place (either or both) betting only.

Stuball

[Suff]

:jump: :jump: I like the idea of a cap at $42-52 win and $21-26 place with a min bet of 2.5% of CURRENT bankroll and max of 10% of ORIGINAL bankroll. that way if someone hits early and wants to sit on his lead....he is forced to a higher min...Win -- Place (either or both) betting only.

Stuball

been thinking about you. Have'nt seen much of you. Glad your still getting out your stall for workouts and pony rides.

[PaceAdvantage]

I just made a couple plays on the Aqueduct races, and I have to say I'm impressed with the layout, the ease, the user-friendliness of it. I think the parameters should be based on what kinds of tweaks and controls you have to make managing the contest as easy as possible. For example, if we decided that a participant must play 20 of the 30 races, and have a bet total of 50% of his original stake, would that be easy to track? Or very time consuming.

Since you would only have to go back and review the bets made by the potential winner or winners, it shouldn't be all that time consuming....

[BetHorses!]

I just bet 200 on Kiss and go (5th) and Dynergy (8th). Will I get a rebate? :D

[TimesTheyRAChangin]

PA,
This might just be a lack of contest/t-bred handicapping experience speaking here,but,what if a minor portion of the winnings(say $50.00?)were set aside for the member who ends up cashing in the most win bets?The only concern would be for those who bet multiple horses in a race.And that could be worked out easily.If somebody bet 3 horses per race,for 20 races,and had 10 winners,score him as hitting at a rate of .1667.(10 Winners divided by 60 Possibilities)Another could bet one horse each time for the same 20 races and have the winner in 10.He would get a hit rate of .500(10W divided by 20P)In theory,someone who is 1 for 1(rate of 1.000)could stop,sit back,and win.You would have to have a minimum # of races bet to win.And you would still have to have v$$ in your account at the end of the 29th race!(SOME PEOPLE LIKE TO BET EVERYTHING THEY HAVE IN THE FINALE!!)

[chickenhead]

looks great PA. Maybe after this 1st trial contest we should have a small entry fee to help augment the pot? I like stus suggestions about caps and limits min/max on bets, and have to play 50% of the races or so.

P.S. I'm taking this first pot.

[BIG RED]

Virtual wagering for each race will close on the half-hour before listed post time. What that means is that if a race is designated to go off at 5:30pm, wagering will close at 5:00pm. A 5:15pm post time will close at 5:00pm. If post time is close to a half-hour mark, say a 5:03pm post time, then it will close at 4:30pm. The races will be clearly marked when wagering closes.



PA, is this a mistake , just pointing ot out because it's in the rules section.
A 5:15 closes at 5:00? Wouldn't it be 4:45?

[headhawg]

BR,

No I think that PA really means "on the half-hour", the top and bottom of the hour, the 12 and 6 position on the clock -- not a 1/2 hour before posttime.

HH

[BIG RED]

Hi hawg, how have you been? Haven't seen you in the WR as of late.

Atleast it shows I read the rules, lol! Sounds right, I'll wait til PA verifies it.

[PaceAdvantage]

BR,

No I think that PA really means "on the half-hour", the top and bottom of the hour, the 12 and 6 position on the clock -- not a 1/2 hour before posttime.

HH

That's what I meant....and when a race is scheduled to go off close to a half-hour mark, I will set the close back a bit further.

Either way, each race will clearly state what time it closes...

[fmhealth]

PA, very creative program. Thank you. Just one question, will there be any link to any type of pps provided?

[PaceAdvantage]

No, I won't be providing any PPs, but I will try to pick races that offer free PPs somewhere....

BTW, the payouts for the first test race are official....and as far as I can tell, everything went smoothly....

Pay no attention to those goofy looking odds I had to enter.....the program does not accept decimal inputs (although it creates decimal outputs).

Therefore, to enter in odds of 7.6, I had to actually enter the odds as 38/5. The program correctly figures this to be 7.60-1 and pays out on that number (if it had actually won the race).

In addition, a scratched horse will have odds of 1/1000 and the payout will be 0 and money will be refunded.....

[joeyspicks]

PA, Terrific idea!! I too agree with a minimun amount of plays (20?) and a cap on odds. Thanks............... I'm really going to make an effort to participate.

Joe

[Light]

PA

I notice that in the 8th @Aqu today,the entry horses have their names listed like 2 seperate bets and those who wagered on #1 are not listed on the 1a. Do you only get credit if you wager on the winning part of the entry or is this just a software glitch?

[cj]

PA,

Great idea. I'm skiing right now, be back home Sunday and will check it out. I hope I'm not too late, and that I'll still be walking by then :)

[PaceAdvantage]

PA

I notice that in the 8th @Aqu today,the entry horses have their names listed like 2 seperate bets and those who wagered on #1 are not listed on the 1a. Do you only get credit if you wager on the winning part of the entry or is this just a software glitch?

Since this is a test race, I have an option in the future. I can put both horses of an entry on the same line....or I can leave it as is....I think I'm going to leave them as separate because of the following:

If either of the two entrymates win, I simply tell the program to pay off on both halves of the entry, so it doesn't matter if you bet the 1 and the 1a wins, or you bet the 1a and the 1 wins...you get paid.

I think it's best to keep them as two separate betting fields because in some jurisdictions, if one half of the entry is a scratch (especially a late scratch), the other one still might run.....other jurisdicions (like NY) will make half the entry run for purse money only if the other half scratches...

Am I missing something here in my thinking? I believe I have it covered where entries are concerned....

[BIG RED]

cj, must be tuogh going downhill with a laptop in hand :D

(didn't mean to go off thread)

[rrbauer]

For the record, I will be putting together a formal list of rules for the contest after I get everyone's ideas here....the more I think about it, the more it seems like a minimum number of 'races played' and/or minimum amount of 'vCash bet' should be imposed....or else you're right, someone could just sit on their chips and hope everyone else tanks....

So, what are some good numbers?

During the contest period you have to turn your bankroll at least once and you have to bet at least half of the races.

[PaceAdvantage]

That sounds good to me....you must wager a total of at least 3000 during the contest, and you must wager on at least 15 of the 30 events...

Now, do we need to cap payoffs?

[BIG RED]

Caps, I say yes. But I think 40-1 win / 20-1 place is fair.

Any other suggestions for money bet/races bet I will just follow. If someone feels strongly about a price horse he should get a decent price, and a cap is good because it's a contest.

[Tom]

GREAT idea, PA...:ThmbUp:


Cap.....I vote no cap! Git 'er done!:cool:

[Handiman]

This is a very cool idea. I can't wait to get my butt kicked....But will give her hell trying to snatch the cash.


Handi

[PaceAdvantage]

Just to reiterate, this is a WIN ONLY contest....the system is incapable of taking anything but win bets....

[PaceAdvantage]

Pot just got juiced by the fine folks at ThoroStats.com, who are now co-sponsors of this contest.

Cash prize now valued at $350....

I'm thinking $250 to first, $100 to second....

[Zaf]

:ThmbUp:

[PaceAdvantage]

Another test race is up....and it's a doozy.....Thursday's 8th race from Santa Anita....should be fun if all go....

[BIG RED]

Peice of cake...........ahh...cyber cake that is :)

[highnote]

PA,

The contest is a great idea. Thanks.

I'm thinking that each bet should be $100 minimum and $200 maximum and you must bet all $3,000 for the contest. Payoffs should be capped at $42.00 -- 20/1 odds.

Here's my reasoning...

If some stabber hits a couple longshots with a large wager he/she could get so far out in front early in the contest that no one can catch them. That might dampen the enthusiasm for the contest.

However, there might be some good counter-arguements to this.

Just my two cents.

[rastajenk]

Maybe you can swing it where the winner(s) get to go to Vegas next year for the national 'capping tournament. :eek:

[pjd888]

I think longshot players should be rewarded-not penalized!
Thanks for the contest PA and other sponser.
Pete

[rrbauer]

That sounds good to me....you must wager a total of at least 3000 during the contest, and you must wager on at least 15 of the 30 events...

Now, do we need to cap payoffs?

If I understand correctly, the contest races will be high-level allowance and stakes races. If that is the case I don't see any point in putting caps on the win payoff price. If I pick a $50 winner I want to see $50 ring up for my efforts.....but, in those type races $50 winners are few and far between.

[Richie]

PA

Thanks for the contest, it will no doubt bring me out of lurker mode, really appreciate it, looking foward to alot of fun.

Richie

[Richie]

I agree on a maximum bet, especially at the end. You can have a bunch of us betting tons on the last couple races of the contest. This would sort of negate all the good effort of a few months

[toetoe]

PA,

Great idea! :jump:

I just hope to be at the 100-post mark by Saturday. :lol:

P.S. Blah bla .....

[toetoe]

PA,

Please don't fall for the conventional "wisdom" of capping mutuels. That's like the poker mentality of no-check-and-raise, or even no-bluffing. If the experts and leaders, who are owed nothing by the contest (only the winner is), disagree with ranking by mutuel total, just add up total winners. The leader going into the last day that gets passed by a "stabber" might still win if his earlier bomber weren't itself capped. It smacks of California stewards-style "protecting the public."

[PaceAdvantage]

The only requirement for the races I choose are that they have a $100,000 minimum purse. With that said, my goal is to choose the most difficult, contentious races that I can, so I hope there are more than a few big time payoffs.

So, I don't think I'm going to cap payoffs.

I think the only other requirements I am going to go with are a 15 race minimum (you must place a bet on at least half the races offered in the contest), and enforcing a minimum individual bet size of $100 per bet. This will guarantee that a player wagers at least half their bankroll during the contest one way or the other....

Any major objections to this?

[Niko]

Sounds good. Will you put a max bet? Otherwise you could shoot for one or two large bets at the end to take it all? Or the beginning... $300, $500

[PaceAdvantage]

Let's make it a 20 race minimum....I like that better after re-reading Murph's reply a while back....


Win betting only...you can bet more than one horse per race
Must play at least 20 out of the 30 races offered.
$100 minimum per bet to prevent people from sitting on a lead....
No cap on win payoffs
I'm not sure about imposing a maximum bet size....my gut says no....any others wish to chime in?

I will be posting an official list of rules tomorrow in the P.A. Downs (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=56) forum so get your last minute thoughts in now....

[MONEY]

How about 20 races and at least 10% of your bankroll per race. This will prevent early leaders from sitting on a lead. And also prevent someone from taking the lead with one lucky late bet.

[BillW]

$100 minimum per bet to prevent people from sitting on a lead....

Mike,

Do you want your minimum per bet or total bet per race?

[PaceAdvantage]

It has to be per bet....software limitations....

Do you think that's too high?

[BillW]

No opinion - I just saw a potential for a rule ambiguity.

[Murph]

Win betting only...you can bet more than one horse per race
Must play at least 20 out of the 30 races offered.
$100 minimum per bet to prevent people from sitting on a lead....
No cap on win payoffs
I'm not sure about imposing a maximum bet size....my gut says no....any others wish to chime in?

I will be posting an official list of rules tomorrow in the P.A. Downs (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=56) forum so get your last minute thoughts in now....


It takes guts to bet your entire roll late in a contest. HELL, anytime:mad:
I NEVER would bet my wad! (ever again!) You can go out like Charlie Brown
after Lucy pulls the football!

Every contest is different and this one will have a great personality.
In our group I doubt that any quarter shall be granted, and none will be spared.

One question though PA, are there 30 100k races run by Belmont? Might that
take until about August and The Travers Stakes? Just curious about the time frame.

Good Luck to everyone and enjoy the ride.

Murph

[zazzle]

Hello please I don't understand why 100 posts are required. The members will have to endure allot of extra traffic, and what if it's not good material?:confused:

[Anderon]

Pace great idea on the contest !! I've got a question...why are you closing post a half an hour before the race starts? I'm a toteboard handicapper and I need to wager by post for it to work for me, but if not it's cool by me anyway. :cool:

[twindouble]

I'm not likely to participate to any great degree, primarly because my world is in the lower claiming ranks. If I don't reach the required number of races, that's Ok, a spot play here and there is the only way I handle graded race races anyway.


What I do like is the polls that are popping up here along with the contest, that will give me some idea as to what members are using for their selections. That will pretty much validate that I'm swimming in the wrong pond doing a side stroke to win a race.


Good luck all,

T.D.

[GaryG]

I'm not likely to participate to any great degree, primarly because my world is in the lower claiming ranks. If I don't reach the required number of races, that's Ok, a spot play here and there is the only way I handle graded race races anyway.


What I do like is the polls that are popping up here along with the contest, that will give me some idea as to what members are using for their selections. That will pretty much validate that I'm swimming in the wrong pond doing a side stroke to win a race.


Good luck all,

T.D.TD: Give it a shot. I have been running against the wind (apologies to Bob Seger) all my life and am comfortably in the black. No fancy software ever made a winner, some just know what tools they need. Best of luck. :ThmbUp:

[Richie]

Zazzle

After reading the rules on page 1, your ok, the 100 post rule is for people who signed up after 3/1/06. Whoever signed up prior to that does not need 100 posts, looks like you could go back to lurking.

[Zaf]

I'm not likely to participate to any great degree, primarly because my world is in the lower claiming ranks.

T.D.

My world is in the lower claiming ranks also. Nothing like a cheap 14 horse chaos race at EVD :eek: I love it. I also love contests , so I will take a shot.

Z

[TurfRuler]

The contest feels so international. I appreciate your efforts to hold this kind of contest and my suggestion is to leave it like it is with your rules. Comments are great and helpful but the suggestion to place caps on win bets is insulting. When I pick a winner I want the full price of the payoff. That was one of the reasons that I just hated going to Vegas in the early 80s where they capped the win bets. So before they said it I knew that whatever amount of money you brought to Vegas, stayed in Vegas.

[BIG RED]

Where not in Vegas.(real cash)

I can wait , so many races, and with 3000 plop on most longshots, without capping, bang a few, and bingo.Races needed to qualify should take care of that, and min, and caps? Its all for fun, and to sharpen skills against others, HERE.
True, there is $$ involved for winners, but enjoy.

[PaceAdvantage]

One question though PA, are there 30 100k races run by Belmont? Might that
take until about August and The Travers Stakes? Just curious about the time frame.

Considering there are 13 this weekend alone to pick from (on my list...there may be more that I am unaware of), and it's only March 4, I think it's safe to say we'll be done on time....lol

This weekend:

Fountain of Youth
Honey Fox H
Richter Scale BC H
The Very One H
Barbara Fritchie BC H
Santa Anita H
F.E. Kilroe Mile H
Santa Catalina Stks
Baldwin Stks
John Battaglia Mem Stks
Bonnie Miss
Forward Gal
La Habra

[The Judge]

It's 7:42 west coast time and I can't seen to be able to locate what races where selected nor can I place a bet?

[PaceAdvantage]

Races are not up yet....I said that I hope to get them up the night before....I still technically have 58 minutes....

The races will ALWAYS be up by the morning....

[rokitman]

I am for caps. Should you win the contest with one hit because your bomb had 1% of the pool bet on it instead of 2%? That is just good fortune. Run the race over again and it may very well have the 2% on it. It's too easy for the pool % to swing on that end. And not reflective of anything you did. If you get paid 26:1 on your 40:1 shot it will go a long way to winning the contest. But you're probably going to have to hit something else. And you should. This contest is free. It's very easy to say, Frack it. I'll just play blind 20:1 ML's and if something big happens to come out, I may win, and if it doesn't, who cares, I have no time or money invested.

[rokitman]

And :) if you hit your superbomb because you are an excellent handicapper, you'll be sure to hit some other some other stuff. You'll , at least, be able to tack on some "easy" lower priced hits to pad you're total. You won't if you just got lucky. Don't punish those that are actually putting the work in, PA.

[toetoe]

Rok,

I understand that some people are instinctively offended when a bomber is so huge, he practically wins a contest all by himself. When I first got sucked in by a check-and-raise ploy in poker, I was indignant. Well, poker is about lying and deception, and racing is about mutuels. If I hit by far the biggest pot of the night in poker, should I consider it a lucky anomaly and throw some back? To paraphrase Churchill, who stole it from ... I dunno, somebody maybe: this way is the worst, except for all the others. To even approximate "real" handicapping, ROI, expectation, etc., we'd need to spend two years on a thousand races! However, price caps are a very ill-advised, panicky "remedy" to a minor "problem."

[DJofSD]

toetoe, for once, I agree with you!

[The Judge]

I think we are all mature enough to know that this is to have some fun with a chance to win a small prize. We know the idea is to bet alot of races if not all the races. We haven't paid any fees or won any qualifying spot. I trust we know how to have some fun and go with the spirit in which this was set-up. We know this wasn't done so that one of us could win $250 and one $100. So lets have some fun and make lots of bets or at least some huge bets no matter what others my be doing or not doing. IMO

[rokitman]

The small race sample is all the more reason for a cap.

If a superbomb hits, the contest deconstructs from then on. And for what purpose? Keep everybody interested in it for as long as possible, I say. If a lot people drop out, it defeats the point of this contest. As a Founding Father :cool: , I can tell you that there is a point to this contest that is not served by losing players because of a superbomb and the luck involved in what it pays. If your superbomb had "Mary" in the name, it likely pays well less than if it didn't have a name in it. Some superbombs will appeal to names/numbers players more than others and that matters a lot, in my opinion. It will not "average out" out in a 30 race sample. Not even close. There has to be cap, for the greater good!

[chickenhead]

So are we solidified on the rules? Sounds like we are running with the only constraint being $100 per bet minimum, and you have to churn at least $3000 over the course of the contest?

[toetoe]

One point, and goodbye:

Let's extend the cap logic where it needs to be taken. If horses get pounded to favoritism, that's just not fair, out of our control, etc. So let's have a minimum --- every winner counts for at least $20. Now, capping winners at $32, we have a nice little "fair," sanitized, homogenized range which is really nothing more than ... surprise! ... most winners wins. Yippee! My last post on yhis subject, I solemnly SWEAR on a stack of Racing Times issues. :ThmbUp: :)

[chickenhead]

Win betting only...you can bet more than one horse per race
Must play at least 20 out of the 30 races offered.
$100 minimum per bet to prevent people from sitting on a lead....
No cap on win payoffs
I'm not sure about imposing a maximum bet size....my gut says no....any others wish to chime in?

I will be posting an official list of rules tomorrow in the P.A. Downs (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=56) forum so get your last minute thoughts in now....

Sorry, I missed this. Never mind, it's all right here!

[DJofSD]

I'd assume those proposing caps on payouts are afraid to bet long shots.

[Tom]

I like this format because you can tap out. Most (all?) other one we have here you get fresh money every race or day or whatever. $3000 to last the whole things puts more pressure on you than if you get $500 every week or whatever. In real life, you can go broke.

But caps? We all have the same shot every week. If we want to risk a tap out by betting 50-1 shots, so be it. We should also be rewarded if we hit - just like in real life.

Good contest!

[Fastracehorse]

I like this format because you can tap out. Most (all?) other one we have here you get fresh money every race or day or whatever. $3000 to last the whole things puts more pressure on you than if you get $500 every week or whatever. In real life, you can go broke.

But caps? We all have the same shot every week. If we want to risk a tap out by betting 50-1 shots, so be it. We should also be rewarded if we hit - just like in real life.

Good contest!

Call me insecure but I feel it insinuates that bombs are flukes.

fffastt

[bpiets]

:cool: Just curious but can 'i' ''use'' some of the 'winnings above the 3000 or do 'i' lose because 'i' have only 1500 left of the 3000 and even at 100 per race it only adds up to 16 PLAYS of a possible 20 MUST Plays..(wins<<<< 'i' hope>>>>) or have 'i' lost any chance of 'winning'...???....Thanks.....

[toetoe]

You're not mathematically out of it. Keep swinging, and if you fall below $100, you'll be frozen, or d-q-ed, or whatever. :ThmbUp:

[PaceAdvantage]

:cool: Just curious but can 'i' ''use'' some of the 'winnings above the 3000 or do 'i' lose because 'i' have only 1500 left of the 3000 and even at 100 per race it only adds up to 16 PLAYS of a possible 20 MUST Plays..(wins<<<< 'i' hope>>>>) or have 'i' lost any chance of 'winning'...???....Thanks.....

Can you restate the question? I have not a clue what you are trying to say...

[BetHorses!]

Predictions?

What about some fun P.A. Downs Props


Which will be greater after 30 races:

Tom's vCash multiplied by 4 or
Tom's total posts

:D

[bpiets]

Can you restate the question? I have not a clue what you are trying to say...
Morning...According to the rules each person recieves 3000 to start but must enter at least 20 of the thirty 'plays' to 'win' a prize....now then ...I am in third place put have already Bet 1500 of the 3000 so even at 100 points per 'play' I can only 'play' another 15 'times...so I am already K'O'D' out of the contest for any prize money in this contest....or do I get to 'use' any portion of 'my' winnings to bet next week-end...????....

[PaceAdvantage]

You can certainly use your winnings to wager....it's just like being at the track....you can use whatever money is in your pocket....

The only way you're "out" of the contest is if your bankroll drops to 0.

[bpiets]

:cool: ;) :) Thank-You....Have a nice day.....until then....

[cj]

The only way you're "out" of the contest is if your bankroll drops to 0.

Isn't the minimum bet $100, basically meaning you are out at $99? Just checking :)

[Tom]

Predictions?

What about some fun P.A. Downs Props


Which will be greater after 30 races:

Tom's vCash multiplied by 4 or
Tom's total posts

:D

Hmmmmm, a dare? ;)

[PaceAdvantage]

Isn't the minimum bet $100, basically meaning you are out at $99? Just checking :)

Yes, I guess that would be true...

[keenang]

I commend you on your efforts for everyone to have some fun, and thats what it should be.

Thanks and Good Racing luck

Gene :)