That nasty little thing called truth.....

[Tom]

Bush said point blankthat there were NO concerns over security with the ports scandal. Today it was revealed that Homeland Security and the Coast Guard both had valid concerns over ties with terroists by the UAE.
Under the law, this should have automatically trigged the 45 day investigation period.

Typical of the Bush administration, this law, like others before it, has been ignored and violated. (Pop quiz - can anyone name three laws Bush has OBEYED since 2000???)

This alleged compromise is also a sham, as the UAE will take ownership of the port leases this Thursday, THEN the 45 day investigation will begin.

Huh???
Wassup wit dat??????:confused:

I cannot believe we impeached Clinton for the little he did and let this SOB get away with completely ignoring the constitution.

Is it me, or is this absolutley stupid?!
Make the deal, THEN investigate it????

That's like buying a car THEN going for a test drive.

And, as I predictied only Saturrday, the republicans have already rolled over and are toeing the party line, supporitng the ignorance of George W Bush once again.

Sad day when our only hope left is the demorcats. :eek:

How can this congress keep allowing Bush to breaking our laws?
This man is a menace to society, a larger threat than OBL ever was. This man is a crook and a liar.

[JustRalph]

it is a business deal between two private companies.......Congress should stay the hell out of it!

If we turn this down, we need to divest in a ton of companies that are much more dangerous in my mind...........

Private transactions are no business of the Congress ..........

[kenwoodallpromos]

I can think of 1- Bush obeyed the law of gravity when he fell off his bike!LOL!

[Secretariat]

it is a business deal between two private companies.......Congress should stay the hell out of it!

If we turn this down, we need to divest in a ton of companies that are much more dangerous in my mind...........

Private transactions are no business of the Congress ..........

You're kidding right? You have no problem with a foreign country that the Coast Guard has issues with and has a history of supporting the Taliban managing our ports.

Just a few quesitons:

1. Who provides oversight for this firm?

2. If something did happen at our ports after this sale do you honestly think that the people of the US would accept your rationale that "Private transactions are no business of Congress."

The people didn't buy that argument with Enron, why would they buy it with a country that had 911 hijacker ties?

This transaction has politics all over it with ties to Treasury Secretary Snow.

I guess See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil is your advice. I would like to see a poll of the people who actually live in those ctiies where those ports are to see how they feel about it. I think you'd see a huge disagreement with your assessment, and since they're most affected by an explosion at a port, might be worth getting their viewpoint rather than throwing some more dollars into GW's wallet.

[JustRalph]

they won't own the ports...........the security won't change a bit..........

The Chicoms run 60% of our ports now? You going to throw them out?

This is all just blubbering...........Congress and the Dems trying to claim the high ground on National Security........that ship has sailed.........not pun intended

BTW, when it comes to Enron..........Yes Congress should not be involved at all. That is what we have state attorney generals for...........U.S. Attorney's etc....

Sec, you and your allies might as well be standing in a corner stomping your feet! Be careful..........your dunce cap might fall off.

I had reservations early on. I looked into it, real hard. There is no reason in the world to stop this deal.............end of story

[Tom]

it is a business deal between two private companies.......Congress should stay the hell out of it!

If we turn this down, we need to divest in a ton of companies that are much more dangerous in my mind...........

Private transactions are no business of the Congress ..........

Not true. It is NOT a private company, it is the royal family of a terror-sponsoring nation. Why not get hamas involved? And there is already a law to cover this sort of thing, which Bush violated. He has NO right to break the law. Your argument could be used to say that 9-11 was an issue between private citizens and the airlines.

The fact is that the coast guard will only approve the security plans of the royal family, and the CG is woefully undermanned as it is. Once a container is unloaded, no one but the terminal people (a terror family) will have custody over it.

Don' t the stream of lies bother you at all? Bush is lying through his teeth...why?

[Tom]

"The government asked DP World to operate American seaports with existing U.S. managers "to the extent possible."

However, the papers show CFIUS did not require DP World to keep copies of business records on U.S. soil, where they would be subject to orders by American courts.

"There is a very serious question as to why the records are not going to be maintained on American soil subject to American jurisdiction," said Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee and a leading critic of the sale.

A senior U.S. official said the Bush administration considers shipping manifests less sensitive." :eek:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,185799,00.html

[JustRalph]

Tom, that royal family has money in tons of businesses. The fact remains that they won't be in charge of security and nothing else changes. We can agree to disagree on this one..............

[hcap]

Blatant Cronyism

Something to chew on...
From
http://www.buzzflash.com/analysis/06/02/ana06011.html

John Snow and David Sanborn. Then remember these three companies: Carlyle Group, CSX, and Dubai Ports World.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

PART OF CSX -- namely, CSX Lines -- was sold to ...drum roll, please.... The Carlyle Group, early in Feb. 2003, for $300 million.

One of the biggest customers of CSX Lines is the US military.

John Snow, the CEO of CSX, was appointed Treasury Secretary by Bush jr. on Feb. 7, 2003.

Read about this cozy deal at:
http://www.bridgedeck.org/mmp_news_archive/
2002/mmp_news021219.html

and at: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,919897,00.html

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

David Sanborn was an executive with CSX and, then, a senior Dubai Ports World executive whom Bush appointed last month to be the new administrator of the Maritime Administration of the Transportation Department. Sanborn worked as Dubai Ports World's director of operations for Europe and Latin America.

Gee, d'ya think Sanborn greased the skids for Dubai Ports World to get Bushite approval to run operations at six of our nation's ports?

D'ya think?

<<Lawmakers from both parties have noted that some of the Sept. 11 hijackers used the United Arab Emirates as an operational and financial base. In addition, critics contend the UAE was an important transfer point for shipments of smuggled nuclear components sent to Iran, North Korea and Libya by a Pakistani scientist. >>

Read more at: http://tinyurl.com/maq6x

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

More about DAVID SANBORN and JOHN SNOW at: http://tinyurl.com/gyflb

<< I am surprised that nobody here has mentioned the most obvious connections -- Treasury Secretary John Snow, and brand-spankin’-newbie-crony David Sanborn.

John Snow was formerly CEO of CSX ... David Sanborn was an executive with CSX/Sea-Land division.

Then SANBORN left to become a director with Dubai Ports World and brokered a deal for Dubai Ports World to purchase the South American and Asia port operations from CSX. Now -- just two weeks ago -- Sanborn is introduced as the new Assistant Secretary of Transportation -- Marine Administration.

Then the quasi-secret "Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States" (CFIUS), which is chaired by John Snow, makes this ruling.>>

http://tinyurl.com/gyflb

.

....Why do we care about the Carlyle Group? I'll answer that by telling you who some of the investors are? Among the firm's multi-million-dollar investors were

-- members of the family of Osama bin Laden
-- George Bush Sr
-- former British prime minister John Major
-- Frank Carlucci - Ronald Reagan's defense secretary
-- James A. Baker III

Read more about The Carlyle Group at:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0,1300,583869,00.htm

[Tom]

So if this deal is so SAFE and nothing out of line here,why is that bush lied about it, broke the law by forgoing the mandatory 45 day rule after the Coast Guard expressed concerns, and HS also had concerns? What harm would using the 45 days and doing a full investigation harm? What is Bush afraid will be uncovered? One would think, after 9-11, due dilligence would not be something we by pass in the interests of the president's personal finances.

Is this Able Danger II?

I certainly agree with you on one thing - our ports will be just as safe and secure as our southern border. :bang:

[Snag]

Did I miss something? I thought the "SALE" was between DPW and a British company. There was no US company involved. Isn't this the same as telling the British company that they can't sell their company?

Why did the Coast Guards concerns only come to light after someone looked under the sheets? Could it be that their objection was covered in the review? I have concerns all the time.

Where did the Carlyle Group and CSX come from? Did Mike Moore surface again? Being a former CEO or having worked for a company doesn't disqualify anyone from being appointed to a government post. Some how, I think dots are being connected here that don't fit the picture.

Maybe we should kick out any foreign owners in US business. That way, we could always be safe and not have to worry about anything.

[Tom]

Snag - the concern is they broke the law.
There is a formal procedure put in place for security reasons. they did not follow it.

You remeber 9-11? the laws were in place for airpor t security, they didn't follow procedures, planes got hijacked, yadda yadda yadda.
If they onlyhave to be right once, we have to be right EVERY time. No short cuts.
This shoddy performance by government is how terrorists succeed.
Why is everyone so dead set against Bush obeying the law?

[ezpace]

the guy that said the USA is AT WAR??

When at war a country awards another country from another continent control of it's eastern seaboard ports. This doens't make any sense what so ever.

[ezpace]

Democrats?? Republicans?? HAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

After one year in D.C. they are all on the same team DEMOREPUBLICANS.

except for RON PAUL.

Eisenhower told you all about the military industrial complex ..Go google his

thoughts. ALL he said is here. NOW.

[JustRalph]

the guy that said the USA is AT WAR??

When at war a country awards another country from another continent control of it's eastern seaboard ports. This doens't make any sense what so ever.

Once again, they won't control the ports. This is amazing that you frame it that way. If so, I guess the British control the ports now huh?

[Secretariat]

Where did the Carlyle Group and CSX come from? Did Mike Moore surface again?

Actually, the Senior Vice Preident for Dubai Ports, and a spokesperson for them on TV is a guy by the name of Michael Moore.

There is a significant difference between a long term alliance with Britain, and a monarchy that has a new ruler since 2004 after suoporting the Taliban prior to 2001.

If I only cared about poltics I'd say let this deal go through becasue GW is suffering big time for it - now down to all time low in recent polls dropping 8 points on the ports issue. But it's just a dumb move. I'm not in favor of ANY foreign nation "managing" our ports, because it is a national security issue. If you are naive enough to beleive the Coast Guard is able to adequately monitor all freight coming into our ports, then you probably believed the FAA was able to adequately monitor all flights prior to 911.

It just ain't so. My God, do we have to sell everything in our country to other nations, even monarchies and Commie China, for a buck despite the citizens wishes simply so GW and his cronies can make a couple of bucks. This is a stupid, stupid thing to do. They say hindsight is always 20/20. So if it is, well if the UAE wanted to manage the major airports prior to 911, would you have been in favor of that? Especially since two of the hijackers were from UAE, and they were friendly with the Taliban, and they were funneling funds via banks to Al Queda.

Yeah, I imagine you probably would in the name of free-trade. Not sure how "free-trade" works for the common man in monarchies, but it sure as hell has no place in managing the ports of the US.

[highnote]

Anyone remember that story about the Trojan horse...

Universal Express Receives Saudi Investments

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/060224/20060224005276.html?.v=1

Universal Express Signs New Dubai Agreement

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/060222/20060222005812.html?.v=1

Universal Express Signs Letter of Intent to Purchase Oil & Gas Company

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/060227/20060227005692.html?.v=1

[46zilzal]

(CBS) The latest CBS News poll finds President Bush's approval rating has fallen to an all-time low of 34 percent, while pessimism about the Iraq war has risen to a new high.

Americans are also overwhelmingly opposed to the Bush-backed deal giving a Dubai-owned company operational control over six major U.S. ports. Seven in 10 Americans, including 58 percent of Republicans, say they're opposed to the agreement.

[Snag]

Tom, I disagree with you about a law being broken. Based on what I have heard so far, a review took place and the concerns by the CG were explained and then approval was given. The 45 day trigger was not started just because of the CG concerns. A formal procedure was followed. I feel strongly that there should have been more common sense applied, but that doesn't go to breaking a law.

To your point about airport security not being followed on 9/11, I disagree also. Based on the rules in place at the time, nothing the hijackers did or carried on the planes broke any procedures. Rules have changed based on what we learned, but you can't apply 20/20 hind site.

Control and security of the ports are not the issue of the review that took place. Let there be no mistake about that. The issue reviewed was the foreign ownership of a company doing business in the US.

We need to be very careful with any new laws or rules put into place now. The Saudi ownership in the US and the world is huge. I have not heard one word about their ownership of any companies.

[ezpace]

Once again, they won't control the ports. This is amazing that you frame it that way. If so, I guess the British control the ports now huh?

================
HI, J/R

The Brits are long time proven trusted allies big difference.

Those who think they are in control aren't when they let foreign

companies manage the minute to minute ,,day to day , month to month

dock logistics and work. That is my point.

Also I think most presidents since Eisenhower suck including Carter,Reagan,Clinton,

and the current little multinational ,zionist puppet.All are Common globalist socialists

usa sovereinty sell outs.

[schweitz]

(CBS) The latest CBS News poll finds President Bush's approval rating has fallen to an all-time low of 34 percent, while pessimism about the Iraq war has risen to a new high.


Another typical CBS poll: I'm surprised he received 34 % :D

total republicans surveyed = 272
total democrats surveyed = 409
total independents surveyed = 337

:rolleyes: :bang:

[Secretariat]

The Saudi ownership in the US and the world is huge. I have not heard one word about their ownership of any companies.

Obviously, you've never seen Fahrenheit 911 by Michael Moore, not the Michael Moore of Dubai Ports, but the other Michael Moore.

[schweitz]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5228775

[JustRalph]

zionist puppet

Interesting choice of words...............

[Snag]

Secretariat, I have seen F911. I think we both know which Moore I was talking about.......lol......By the way, the fat Moore lost me when he started talking about pipelines that don't exist and quoting sources that never talked to him.

I also wonder why all the screaming about the US needing partners in the war but when one tries to come into our back yard, we want to change the rules. I guess the UAE is like some in-laws....as long as they stay home, we call them by their first name.

[ljb]

Blatant Cronyism

Something to chew on...
From
http://www.buzzflash.com/analysis/06/02/ana06011.html

John Snow and David Sanborn. Then remember these three companies: Carlyle Group, CSX, and Dubai Ports World.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

PART OF CSX -- namely, CSX Lines -- was sold to ...drum roll, please.... The Carlyle Group, early in Feb. 2003, for $300 million.

One of the biggest customers of CSX Lines is the US military.

John Snow, the CEO of CSX, was appointed Treasury Secretary by Bush jr. on Feb. 7, 2003.

Read about this cozy deal at:
http://www.bridgedeck.org/mmp_news_archive/
2002/mmp_news021219.html

and at: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,919897,00.html

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

David Sanborn was an executive with CSX and, then, a senior Dubai Ports World executive whom Bush appointed last month to be the new administrator of the Maritime Administration of the Transportation Department. Sanborn worked as Dubai Ports World's director of operations for Europe and Latin America.

Gee, d'ya think Sanborn greased the skids for Dubai Ports World to get Bushite approval to run operations at six of our nation's ports?

D'ya think?

<<Lawmakers from both parties have noted that some of the Sept. 11 hijackers used the United Arab Emirates as an operational and financial base. In addition, critics contend the UAE was an important transfer point for shipments of smuggled nuclear components sent to Iran, North Korea and Libya by a Pakistani scientist. >>

Read more at: http://tinyurl.com/maq6x

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

More about DAVID SANBORN and JOHN SNOW at: http://tinyurl.com/gyflb

<< I am surprised that nobody here has mentioned the most obvious connections -- Treasury Secretary John Snow, and brand-spankin’-newbie-crony David Sanborn.

John Snow was formerly CEO of CSX ... David Sanborn was an executive with CSX/Sea-Land division.

Then SANBORN left to become a director with Dubai Ports World and brokered a deal for Dubai Ports World to purchase the South American and Asia port operations from CSX. Now -- just two weeks ago -- Sanborn is introduced as the new Assistant Secretary of Transportation -- Marine Administration.

Then the quasi-secret "Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States" (CFIUS), which is chaired by John Snow, makes this ruling.>>

http://tinyurl.com/gyflb

.

....Why do we care about the Carlyle Group? I'll answer that by telling you who some of the investors are? Among the firm's multi-million-dollar investors were

-- members of the family of Osama bin Laden
-- George Bush Sr
-- former British prime minister John Major
-- Frank Carlucci - Ronald Reagan's defense secretary
-- James A. Baker III

Read more about The Carlyle Group at:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0,1300,583869,00.htm
Excellent post Hcap,
earlier in this thread I said it is an attempt to concentrate the wealth, follow the money.
Glad to see you took the effort to do so. Maybe others will follow your lead. Carry on, carry on!

[ljb]

Another typical CBS poll: I'm surprised he received 34 % :D

total republicans surveyed = 272
total democrats surveyed = 409
total independents surveyed = 337

:rolleyes: :bang:
Well by my calculations that means about 75 independents support Bush.
Which translates into about a 22 percent approval rating amongst them. :lol: :lol:

[highnote]

The more I think about this Dubai Ports deal the less it bothers me. We could use some allies in the middle east.

[JustRalph]

The more I think about this Dubai Ports deal the less it bothers me. We could use some allies in the middle east.

In case you didn't know...........the UAE special forces troops are fighting side by side with our troops in Afghanistan..........as I type this.........FYI

[highnote]

In case you didn't know...........the UAE special forces troops are fighting side by side with our troops in Afghanistan..........as I type this.........FYI


Yes I knew that. You wrote that before in my poll "Would you vote for a politician who favors the Dubai Ports deal? " -- post #11.

[Tom]

To your point about airport security not being followed on 9/11, I disagree also. Based on the rules in place at the time, nothing the hijackers did or carried on the planes broke any procedures. Rules have changed based on what we learned, but you can't apply 20/20 hind site.



No, acutally, the airport surveilance clearly shows two of the hijakers failed a security check, were wanded, failed again, and then allowd to pass. They never pased an electronic check and were never searched. They show this on A&E, and History channels every so often - catch it next time. I'll post ahead if I see it coming.

[ljb]

In case you didn't know...........the UAE special forces troops are fighting side by side with our troops in Afghanistan..........as I type this.........FYI
Both of them ? :D

[ljb]

Here is another twist to this story.
BREAKING: Dubai Ports World Boycotts Israel

From this morning’s Jerusalem Post:

The parent company of a Dubai-based firm at the center of a political storm in the US over the purchase of American ports participates in the Arab boycott against Israel, The Jerusalem Post has learned.
Last I heard the U.S. was against this type activity. Hmmm ?

[Tom]

Both of them ? :D

No, no....you're thinking of the two who became death pilots on 9-11.

[Tom]

Hamas is bad because they do not recognize Israel....but UAE is GOOD because they do not recognize Israel but have 6 billion dollars. OK. (We had 25 billion dollars befreo Bush failed to act responsibly and veto the brige to nowhere.)

How about Kadaffy - he gave up his mukes - is he now a valuable ally? Should we conside putting Lybia in charge of something here?

Now Zogby is playing the poor arab race card to delfect what the real issues is here.

Man, how far can this country bend over?

Guess 3,000 dead is not enough to wake up people.

[JustRalph]

These guys are our allies.........here is some proof of same: from the Instapundit site........

Former InstaPundit Afghanistan Correspondent John Tammes emails:


I managed some cooperative efforts with the UAE Special Forces troops stationed at Bagram. They did some patrols in the area I was responsible for, and more importantly, they did some humanitarian assistance missions. The Afghans absolutely loved the UAE troops. They were thrilled to have SOMEBODY from the Arab world (besides our excellent Egyptian hospital) come out and HELP, rather than hinder.

We had a lot of supplies come from UAE based concerns too - if they were good enough to serve along side us in the field, and good enough to supply bottled water, food and the like to our troops..well, that sure sounds like a friendly nation to me.

Good point. And reader Eric Bainter makes a similar one:


I don't know squat about the details of the port deal, but I did spend a rather hot humid summer in the emirate of Abu Dhabi, quietly camping out at a UAE air force base that hosts an USAF unit. Prior to 9-11, there was a tanker squadron there, but within a few weeks after 9-11 the US presence ramped up dramatically, eventually becoming an expeditionary wing, and in time to support the Afghanistan effort. It is unusual for large, dramatic changes to happen quickly in Arab-dom, so for us to multiply the base footprint that rapidly means the UAE must been very supportive of our efforts. At the time I was there we did not publicly associate the name of the base with our mission or the type of aircraft we had, as our hosts preferred to remain low-key about our presence, so I won't go into details of that. However, I will note that while I was there we dedicated the biggest aircraft ramp the USAF Red Horse units (special construction outfit, kind of like SeaBees) had constructed since the Vietnam war. Now it is also true that the city of Abu Dhabi hosts some kind of anti-Israel/Jew outfit, like the Center for the Study of Zionism or somesuch. I do not consider that to be a mark in the "plus" column. However, it is also true that I got a beer ration while stationed there, which was purchased in downtown Abu Dhabi, and on more than one occasion I noticed that my bottle of Corona (yes, the Mexican beer in the clear bottle) was printed entirely in HEBREW, except for the name "Corona" and a statement in English that said the beer was distributed by an Israeli company. So, as is so often said about the Arab world, one thing is said in public, something else is done in private.

I don't know if the port deal has a big behind-the-scene quid-pro-quo, but it would not surprise me a bit. Oh, and BTW, I recall that the UAE seemed to regard Iran as a primary threat, which might be a handy confluence of interests. (Of course, this did not stop them from advertising a lot of holiday packages to Iran.)

http://instapundit.com/archives/028731.php

[schweitz]

Hamas is bad because they do not recognize Israel...

Yea, Tom that is the only reason they are bad---- :rolleyes:

[lsbets]

Ralph I posted that Instapundit quote in one of the other threads on this. You and I are on the opposite sides of the company running the port, but I am still amazed at the level of dishonesty about a nation that is an ally of ours. Its really pitiful. Lets have major politicians publicly slander an ally. Yeah, that's good for the war on terror. Friggin idiots abound.

[JustRalph]

Ralph I posted that Instapundit quote in one of the other threads on this. You and I are on the opposite sides of the company running the port, but I am still amazed at the level of dishonesty about a nation that is an ally of ours. Its really pitiful. Lets have major politicians publicly slander an ally. Yeah, that's good for the war on terror. Friggin idiots abound.

Sorry I missed your quote earlier. I can't read em all ;)

You have to admit this is one hell of a topic. The entire nation is discussing this.......for that reason........ I think it is good.

[lsbets]

Sorry I missed your quote earlier. I can't read em all ;)

You have to admit this is one hell of a topic. The entire nation is discussing this.......for that reason........ I think it is good.

I think its great that its being discussed, but I wish it were being discussed honestly.

[Snag]

lsbets,

"I think its great that its being discussed, but I wish it were being discussed honestly."

Thank you.

[Tom]

Ralph I posted that Instapundit quote in one of the other threads on this. You and I are on the opposite sides of the company running the port, but I am still amazed at the level of dishonesty about a nation that is an ally of ours. Its really pitiful. Lets have major politicians publicly slander an ally. Yeah, that's good for the war on terror. Friggin idiots abound.

What is untrue about thier ties to terrorism?

[Lefty]

It's my understanding that they are on Al Qaedas enemies list. We have ships there. We have an airstrip there. They have tightened their banking system just as we have.

[Secretariat]

It's my understanding that they are on Al Qaedas enemies list. We have ships there. We have an airstrip there. They have tightened their banking system just as we have.

And they still refuse to acknowledge Israel, in fact the Anti-Defamation League is now involved in scrubbing the ports deal?

Why is this such an issue with you Lefty? If Clinton had supported this while President, rather than GW you'd be all over him for it, and rightly so.

[Lefty]

sec, why is it such an issue with me? It seems that it's the ISSUE with you and others. I'm merely responding. You libs always saying we need friends pover there, we can't do it alone. We have an Ally in the UAW and you want to throw it all away. This deal will go through, to do otherwise would be making more enemies. I'm citing facts when I say we have Airbases there. I'm citing facts when I say we have more ships there than any other foreign port. I'm citing facts, when Gen Tommy Franks says the AUW are our allies. I'm citing a fact when I say the Taliban hates these guys. And they hate them because they are our Ally.
It's an issue with you people who are criticizing this deal. You're the ones with your knickers in a twist over the A-Rabs.

[Suff]

sec, why is it such an issue with me? It seems that it's the ISSUE with you and others. \s.

I won't post in this thread until you (lefty) apologisies.

[Lefty]

apologise for what? The quote you show is one I directed toward sec.

[Lefty]

BTW, suff, don't hold your breath if you're waiting for me to apoligise to ANYONE who calls the Pres a terrorist. It's YOU who should apologise to everyone on this board!

[Suff]

apologise for what? \.

I'm still looking. Give me a minute