Did I break the rules?

[kid4rilla]

For all poker players, please read below the way I played a particular hand in a NL Hold'em tournament Saturday night and let me know if this was an illegal thing that I did.

(Don't know if this is the correct place to put this post, please let me know if its should be elsewhere).

I was heads-up with a guy after the river and he set me all in. I started slowly flipping my cards in the air to allow the guy to see my holdings to try and get some information from him about if I was ahead or not. I ended up calling and I did have the best hand.

The guy I played the pot with didn't raise a stink about it, but an uninvolved player said that it is illegal to get information from an opponent by revealing your hand before acting. I thought that this was perfectly legal, especially 2-handed when no other players in the hand could glean any extra information influencing their impending decision.

Illegal or no? Opinions?

[chickenhead]

sounds like bad etiquette, but I've got no idea. Lying or proclaiming what you have is fine, but actually showing....I have a feeling that is a no-no.

[JustRalph]

the guys I play with would have kicked your butt out of the game, and nullified the pot.


I don't know if it is illegal, but the way we play is;

that all acts/plays must be made prior to any cards being revealed

Personally I think you cheated...........on whether or not to call.........

[kid4rilla]

I never intend to "cheat" anyone. I have done this countless times before, as I never thought it was against the rules.......and I am attempting to get a definitive answer on its legality. If I can determine it is certainly illegal, i'll never do it again.

I've heard countless tales similar to this. Johnny Moss with a pair in the hole offering to show his heads-up opponent one of his hole cards for a purple chip.

Same thing here.

[Buddha]

I dont know for sure, but I think that it is a house rule more than anything. I think that they used to do it in the World Series of Poker. Most people play that once cards are seen, they are a dead hand.

Try www.homepokertourney.com (i think) and look for their Robert's Rules of Poker and see what it says.

[superfecta]

It is one of those old plays that is frowned upon nowadays.It is usually grounds now to call your hand dead in tourney play,so dont do it again,you would hate to have a winning hand and be ruled dead.Also be sure to always flip both cards over when called,some places are now ruling the hand dead if you only flip the high card over,which I thought should have been the rule long ago.Another tip is to ask for the house rules at the place you play,some have wierd little rules that dont make much difference but can cost you a pot.I got involved in a hand during a tourney in which there were two other players,I went all in preflop,the other two on the other end of the table had me covered,so they could continue to bet on the turn and the river,and after the river the first player showed two pair,the woman next to him showed him the straight and mucked her hand and began to celebrate winning.She had me beat,but she didnt show me her cards,she kept them in her hand to show her opponent next to her then she tossed them facedown to the dealer.She forgot I was in the hand as well.I knew she had me beat but I knew she mucked too soon.I told her,and she grabbed her cards and turned them up after they hit the table.Well everybody said Super, you lose.Dealer doesnt say anything but calls the floorman over.Floorman says give Super his stack back.He tried to make us both happy,but she went nuts.I let it slide,cause I was in a friendly mood,and was content to survive.I could have pressed to have the entire pot,but I didnt.She refused to play against me the rest of the tourney,which was fine since I did land in the money eventually.Floorman made apoint to tell everyone to lay their hands faceup no matter what in a showdown.

[kid4rilla]

Making a mistake like that happens more often than most people may realize, but if I ever did something like that, I sure wouldn't expect any chips. The lady whining about it should be banned from all tournament play, forever.

I guess I will have to give up my favorite, powerful play, since everybody seems to think it is a little sleazy. Poker players are a whiney bunch, when on the wrong end.

"You can't do that!!!" :mad:

[GameTheory]

I haven't played organized poker, but you're telling me that if the hand is OVER and if the person doesn't leave their cards face up after a call then it is a dead pot? When all you have to do is say oops, flip over the cards, and nothing has changed? Harsh...

[Lefty]

Big thing is: What did the tournament director say about it?

I keep having this damn recurring dream, had it for years: I have a big hand, when time to show it, I have 6 or 7 cards. A dead hand!

[superfecta]

I haven't played organized poker, but you're telling me that if the hand is OVER and if the person doesn't leave their cards face up after a call then it is a dead pot? When all you have to do is say oops, flip over the cards, and nothing has changed? Harsh...
she didnt turn over her cards,she just showed the player in the pot next to her then she placed the cards facedown towards the dealer(any forward movement towards the dealer with your cards is considered a play,faceup or facedown.Facedown is always considered a muck .If you dont call a bet and toss your cards faceup it is a muck as well,but you shouldnt do that unless you are the last to act because it can affect any players left in the pot,they could try to figure if they have any outs with cards to come.I sometimes muck faceup when last to act,its a way to ask the winner to reveal their hand if you fold to them .Also i have done it with a great hand to show respect and tell the winner I know you beat me.I once did that with pocket aces and the nut flush,and the table went crazy thinking I was nuts,but the winner showed a boat,vindicating my play.

[superfecta]

Big thing is: What did the tournament director say about it?

I keep having this damn recurring dream, had it for years: I have a big hand, when time to show it, I have 6 or 7 cards. A dead hand!
Floorman was the tourny director,and he was trying to appease us both.He could have ruled her hand dead completely or sided with her since she had me beat,but he has the option according to the house rules to make any ruling he wants.