Positive ROI Club SELECTIONS ONLY THREAD Monday 02/27/2006

[RaceIsClosed]

My weekend was best summarized by the 9th at Philadelphia on Saturday: my key horse is third, beaten a neck and a nose, costing me the exacta and trifecta (as well as win and place bets). Make it 1-9-4 instead of 9-4-1 (or 4-9-1) and the day is made by that race alone.

I have scored Friday and Saturday as of now. Here's today's updates:

1. I will not personally score the matchup bets, but will report the self-reported scores if the picks were posted before the race goes off.

2. Posting picks at post time makes the pick useless to the crowd and suspect if the horse wins. Depending on how often I see that, I may or may not score it as a no-play.

3. There's nothing wrong with flooding the thread with picks throughout the day, IF there is a reason to. However, this is work to score, and the idea is to show a plus-ROI, so flying through 100 picks of negative-ROI diarrhea in a few days may seem fun at the time, but it's a lot of work to track, and if it's not profitable, defeats the purpose.

4. I had a nice 0-for-6 yesterday to get my ball rolling! Can't say any of them were bad picks; a few of them grabbed checks and some came close. At times like this I do....nothing. This is a "skill lottery" with all the volatility of a chance lottery.

5. Please, NO CHATTER UNTIL THE END OF THE CARD. Posting some self-recaps wouldn't hurt either (I'll assume no one would fake anything and get humiliated). The more pages in the thread, the more protracted the scoring.

6. ROI scoring will be for total ROI, straight, and exotic ROI, with all straight and exotic bets grouped. Multiple horses listed with no preference will all be bet to win and boxed in the exacta. Listing "top choices" will cause only those to be bet to win, with others treated as alternates, and no exotics unless specified.

Last but not least, I challenge anyone who claims to be profitable or professional to prove it here and spread some wealth. If other pros or semi-pros kick in, we can get an information exchange going that will benefit all of us. I'm holding onto the dream of one day being able to tune in here when I need a good pick.

[MONEY]

Picks for Feb. 27, 2006
Bet $1 ex. box first two picks, then a $1 ex. part wheel first pick over the 3rd & 4th picks. Cost only $4. per race. If top pick is scratched, skip the race. HAD A TOUGH TIME FINDING RACES TO PLAY TODAY. So win or lose, here they are.
BEULAH
R3. 1-3-6-7
R5. 8-3-7-1
R7. 9-2-5-1
R8. 5-2-10-9
R9. 2-6-7-9
GULFSTREAM
R5. 2-9-8-6
R6. 10-8-11-3
R7. 7-5-2-6
HAWTHORNE
R2. 1-6-5-3
R7. 8-7-4-1
R8. 4-6-9-3
PHILADELPHIA
R1. 8-1-2-7
R2. 8-3-6-7
R5. 4-1-3-6
R7. 7-2-6-4
TURF PARADISE
R5. 8-1-4-5
R6. 8-6-2-7
R7. 6-8-1-2
R8. 3-2-1-8
R9. 7-2-1-4

[nativenova]

win bets only

GP R9 #3

HAW R4 #5

PHI R1 #7
R4 #3
R6 #5
R9 #2

[Ultimate Selector!]

Beulah 1st Race #4 at (4-1)

[chickenhead]

BEU RC 2 -- $20W 7

[surfdog89]

Beulah 6th. #6 Cool Cat Sam win and place

[chickenhead]

BEU RC 3 -- $20W 7

[Ultimate Selector!]

Gulf 4th race #3 at (4-1)

[chickenhead]

BEU RC 4 -- $20W 2

[Ultimate Selector!]

Beulah 4th race #3 at (9/2)

[Ultimate Selector!]

Philly 6th race #2 at (8-1)

[Ultimate Selector!]

Gulf 5th race #2 at (6-1)

[chickenhead]

BEU RC 5 -- $20W 3

[Anderon]

Gulfstream 6th #5

[chickenhead]

BEU RC 6 -- $20W 5

[surfdog89]

place 6.80 bet 4.00 +2.80

[Anderon]

Hawthorne 4th #4

[Anderon]

Turf Paradise 2nd #3

[Ultimate Selector!]

Gulf 7th race the #6

[Anderon]

Gulfstream 7th #5

[surfdog89]

Gulfstream 10th. #8 Rapturous win and place

[Anderon]

Philly 9th #3

[Anderon]

Hawthorne 5th #4

[PaceAdvantage]

I can delete some of these older threads, right?

[Anderon]

I can delete some of these older threads, right?

The one you should ask is Race Is Closed

[Anderon]

Turf Paradise 3rd #6

[Anderon]

Gulfstream 8th #5

[PaceAdvantage]

I wasn't actually asking anyone in specific....anyone who participates in these threads is welcome to voice an opinion....

But I would think after the day is over, and you tally up (perhaps create a summary thread for those who want to keep track), it would be ok to delete the old threads....

[Anderon]

Beulah 8th #5

[Anderon]

Philly 10th #1 Big Time

[Anderon]

I wasn't actually asking anyone in specific....anyone who participates in these threads is welcome to voice an opinion....

But I would think after the day is over, and you tally up (perhaps create a summary thread for those who want to keep track), it would be ok to delete the old threads....

I know that Race was going back and looking at the picks and getting the results to those picks for ROI's and I don't know if he has completed that yet, that's why I metioned you might want to ask him....as far as I'm concerned that's fine to delete them.

[Anderon]

Hawthorne 6th #2

[Anderon]

Turf Paradise 4th #1

[Anderon]

Gulfstream 9th #2

[chickenhead]

BEU RC 9 -- $60W 3

[Anderon]

Beulah 9th #3

[Anderon]

Hawthorne 7th #7

He Just got scratched !!

[Anderon]

Hawthorne 7th #5

[Anderon]

Turf Paradise 5th #4

[Anderon]

Gulfstream 10th #1

[Ultimate Selector!]

Gulf 10th Race #9 & 12

[Anderon]

Hawthorne 8th #6

[Ultimate Selector!]

Hawthorne 8th race #7 & 8 at (9-1) & (28-1)

[Anderon]

Turf Paradise 7th #8

Oops...This is the 6th race not the 7th my bad..

6th race #8

[Ultimate Selector!]

Hawthorne 9th race #8 at (6-1)

[Anderon]

Hawthorne 9th #7

[Anderon]

Turf Paradise 7th #8

[Ultimate Selector!]

Turf Paradise 7th race #8 at (7/2)

[exactaplayer]

turf paradise
race5
2 win #5
4mtp

[Anderon]

Turf Paradise 8th #9

[RaceIsClosed]

I'd say leave them up five days, as I often catch past-postings and note them when I'm scoring.

I've scored everything through Sunday, but when I post the ROIs, everyone's going to scream that I didn't score them accurately. There are lots of ways to calculate ROI. I'm trying to use a standard measure that should reflect everyone's performance over time.

The 40-pick-a-day guys won't be doing that for long if they aren't profitable. So far the ones who do best seem to post very early.

[exactaplayer]

wrong race but my pick came in third anyway

[chickenhead]

There are lots of ways to calculate ROI.

Alright, I'll admit it, I thought there was only one way.

How are you going to do it?

[RaceIsClosed]

Alright, I'll admit it, I thought there was only one way.

How are you going to do it?

I'm tracking straight and exotic ROI separately.

If they specify amounts, I'll use those but usually bring them down to $2 a pick or $1, depending. If someone increases, I'll use the increased amount as $2, and the decreased amounts as a dollar. For multiple horses not specified, all are bet to win and boxed in the exacta. If no bet is specified, $2 to win is used on a single pick.

[Ultimate Selector!]

Alright, I'll admit it, I thought there was only one way.

How are you going to do it?


There is Only ONE WAY! and this is the only way... ROI Explained:

ROI is calculated by summing winning wagers and subtracting from
that sum, the amount wagered, then dividing that total by the amount wagered; expressing the total as a percentage.

If there is another way to calculate ROI I would like to know how it would be done. I know of no other way!

[MONEY]

After scratches 18 races Minus $66.00. I actually lost $19. because I played differently due to the many scatches. But the way the picks were posted a negative $66. is deserved.

[Ultimate Selector!]

Mountaineer 2nd race #10 at (3-1)

[chickenhead]

There is Only ONE WAY! and this is the only way..!

(I was joking)

I think the problem is you are just posting picks rather than bets...just throwing up picks makes it necessary for him to create some sort of arbitrary bet on which to base your ROI.

I've never gone to the window and yelled: "The 6 at Tampa!" and expected a ticket...

I think I'm going to opt out of this little exercise, it is a little too wide open.

Have fun!

[Ultimate Selector!]

(I was joking)

I think the problem is you are just posting picks rather than bets...just throwing up picks makes it necessary for him to create some sort of arbitrary bet on which to base your ROI.

I've never gone to the window and yelled: "The 6 at Tampa!" and expected a ticket...

I think I'm going to opt out of this little exercise, it is a little too wide open.

Have fun!

I was just adding to your comment not doggin you in any way.
Sorry if you took it the wrong way.

[chickenhead]

none taken -- I was just saying that I think that is what RaceisClosed meant by "how he calcs ROI" .... really meaning how he calculates the wagers.

Good Luck

[Anderon]

(I was joking)

I think the problem is you are just posting picks rather than bets...just throwing up picks makes it necessary for him to create some sort of arbitrary bet on which to base your ROI.

I've never gone to the window and yelled: "The 6 at Tampa!" and expected a ticket...

I think I'm going to opt out of this little exercise, it is a little too wide open.

Have fun!

I fully understand Chickenhead....but simply put, it doesn't matter if you just put up a pick, every WPS or show ticket I ever got always has cost me $2.00, therefore it doesn't matter how many time you have it it's still gunna be the same ROI based on $2.00 or 1 time. Now on the exotics you can do $1.00 tickets so everything on exoctics the ROI should be based on $1.00. It doesn't matter if a guy has $2.00 $10.00 or $1,000 on a pick the ROI is still the same per dollar wagered and same goes for exotics. :)

[chickenhead]

I know it's hard to believe, but some people actually bet different amounts depending on things, all bets are not equal to everyone. I have been known to vary my wager amount.

Likewise, if I bet a win ticket and a trifecta in a race, your method would have my win ticket at $2, and maybe my tri comes out costing $48. Do you think anyone bets like that in real life? A blended ROI in that case makes no sense at all.

But it doesn't matter to me, really...its just not what I thought it was, and I'm choosing not to partake. No big deal.

[Anderon]

I know it's hard to believe, but some people actually bet different amounts depending on things, all bets are not equal to everyone. I have been known to vary my wager amount.

Likewise, if I bet a win ticket and a trifecta in a race, your method would have my win ticket at $2, and maybe my tri comes out costing $48. Do you think anyone bets like that in real life? A blended ROI in that case makes no sense at all.

What are you saying here....I'm not fully understanding what you are saying

[Ultimate Selector!]

Mountaineer race 3 #3 at (2-1)

[chickenhead]

What are you saying here....I'm not fully understanding what you are saying

You say every ticket you ever bought cost you two dollars...some of my win tickets cost me $20, some cost me $200...they don't all cost the same in real life, not to me at least. I don't flat bet.

The second part is that my total ROI is what determines whether I make money or not, which is based on real actual bets, the sum of them all, exotics or not. It sounds like the $ assignments and bets are going to be arbitrarily defined and seperated, which is FINE, most contests are. Real life isn't.

I'm just not all that interested in that, at least not in the format as is. I don't know if that makes any more sense or not, but just drop it. Don't want to screw up this thread any further.

[Anderon]

You say every ticket you ever bought cost you two dollars...some of my win tickets cost me $20, some cost me $200...they don't all cost the same in real life, not to me at least. I don't flat bet.

The second part is that my total ROI is what determines whether I make money or not, which is based on real actual bets, the sum of them all, exotics or not. It sounds like the $ assignments and bets are going to be arbitrarily defined and seperated, which is FINE, most contests are. Real life isn't.

I'm just not all that interested in that, at least not in the format as is. I don't know if that makes any more sense or not, but just drop it. Don't want to screw up this thread any further.

No offense to you or anyone here, but ROI is always figured the same way no matter what on a flat wager. The ROI on exotics will vary based on payoffs but are always calculated the same way no matter what !! For instance on a flat wager if you put $2.00 to win on a 5-1 shot you win $12.00 so $12.00 minus your wager of $2.00 net profit $10.00 or a 500% ROI (10/2=5). Now if you wagered $200.00 to win at 5-1 you win $1,200 minus your wager of $200.00 or a profit of $1,000 or still a 500% ROI (1000/200=5).
Now for an exotic wager of $48.00 and let's say you win $528.00. Once again you take the $528.00 -$48.00 and that = $480.00 or a 1,000% ROI (480/48=10). Now let's say on the same wager you win $98.00 minus your $48.00 and you profit $50.00, so now your ROI is 104% (50/48=1.04). Now let's say you made these two wagers in the same race (the $528.00 exotic win and the $12.00 flat win, your total ROI for the two would be the $480.00 plus the $10.00 for a total of $490.00. Now we divide our cost of $50.00 by the amount won of $490.00 which would equal a 980% ROI. Now if you lose the bet or bets now your down x% of your bankroll whatever that was when you started.
I'm not trying to be condesending here but there is only one way to figure ROI and that is The sum won is divided by the amount wagered after the the amount wagered has been subtracted from the amount won !!
I hope this helps and this answers the question of it doesn't matter what or how you wager or how much, the ROI is always figured the same way. I think figureing the ROI is very simple but I stilll think the two different types of wagers should be seperated because of such higher ROI's from small outlays in the exotics can happen alot easier of course than flat win betting ROI's. :)

[Ultimate Selector!]

Mountaineer 4th race #1 at (6/5)

[Anderon]

I can assure you if I'm past posting I would definately be making a profit and not a loss at this juncture !! Let me ask you this, by what clock or who's clock are you going by, the PaceAdvantages clock or my clock on my computer? Maybe I need to syncronize my Dick Tracey watch with yours so that we can be on the same atomic clock !! :D Really, do you think I'm past posting? :mad: For what reason would I do that or anybody else for that matter, there is no monetary gains to be made here for anybody !!

[surfdog89]

Gulfstream 10th. #8 Rapturous win and place

out of the money.... lost 4.00

[Ultimate Selector!]

Mountaineer6th race #2 at (19-1)

[Ultimate Selector!]

Mountaineer race 7 #9 at (5-1)

[Ultimate Selector!]

Mountaineer 8th race #7 at (8-1)

[Ultimate Selector!]

Mountaineer 9th race #5 at (8-1)

[Anderon]

Moutaineer 9th #9

[Ron]

You're upsetting RaceIsClosed (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/member.php?u=2348)

He said no chatter. ;)

[Anderon]

It's late and there been not hardly any posting by anybody but myself and Ultimate mainly !! I don't do this very often but if it helps alot people that have been questioning things of late I hope it does. :)

Sorry to offend you Ron !! Didn't mean to, and I have nothing personal to anybody here, just trying to help.

[RaceIsClosed]

I can assure you if I'm past posting I would definately be making a profit and not a loss at this juncture !! Let me ask you this, by what clock or who's clock are you going by, the PaceAdvantages clock or my clock on my computer? Maybe I need to syncronize my Dick Tracey watch with yours so that we can be on the same atomic clock !! :D Really, do you think I'm past posting? :mad: For what reason would I do that or anybody else for that matter, there is no monetary gains to be made here for anybody !!

If the posting time is after the off time, what am I supposed to do? The idea is to encourage people to post when others can actually do something about it, and any *professional* horseplayer would know not to even bother giving off the appearance. Post after post time, the bet is counted as a loser.

Losing players who spit out 50 picks a day don't help me, but I'll dutifully tally up their carnage until they're through their 100 races. See, all they do is create a ton of extra work for me (but hey, they have no problem with that as it's just ME doing it), but worse, they chase away the very type of player I'm looking to attract here because pros don't like clutter and don't like people who pick out of their rear ends while declaring to the world how great they are. You'd think those players would not be so quick to grab the attention and would just sit back so the profitable players could do their work, but I guess if they were that wise they wouldn't be padding the pools.

Who has the highest ROI so far? The guy who posted the entire card for each track he plays, prior to the start of the day, and who barely says anything.

[Anderon]

If the posting time is after the off time, what am I supposed to do? The idea is to encourage people to post when others can actually do something about it, and any *professional* horseplayer would know not to even bother giving off the appearance. Post after post time, the bet is counted as a loser.

Losing players who spit out 50 picks a day don't help me, but I'll dutifully tally up their carnage until they're through their 100 races. See, all they do is create a ton of extra work for me (but hey, they have no problem with that as it's just ME doing it), but worse, they chase away the very type of player I'm looking to attract here because pros don't like clutter and don't like people who pick out of their rear ends while declaring to the world how great they are. You'd think those players would not be so quick to grab the attention and would just sit back so the profitable players could do their work, but I guess if they were that wise they wouldn't be padding the pools.

Who has the highest ROI so far? The guy who posted the entire card for each track he plays, prior to the start of the day, and who barely says anything.

I hear you loud and clear Race, other people on here are saying they are posting before post and then are saying it shows they posted after the race went off too, so it's not just me or Ultimate. I'm a toteboard player and wait as late as possible at times to make my play..what can I say, but I do post before they run. have you ever watched me live on the board posting while watching the race live, you'll see that I'm not past posting. If you would rather me not par take in this then just let me know I will no longer participate, I'm not here to cause problems but I think you got off on the wrong foot here with no structure or rules to the contest. Set some structure up so everyone is on the same playing field and lets have some fun. :)

[RaceIsClosed]

Hawthorne 4th #4

Ladies and gentlement, your attention please....

Post: 3:37
Off: 3:35

[Anderon]

Ladies and gentlement, your attention please....

Post: 3:37
Off: 3:35

Once again I ask you, where are the post and your off times comming from !! What are you using to get those times, your computer, PaceAdvantage computers, my computer when I post...what? They are not accurate. :mad:

[RaceIsClosed]

turf paradise
race5
2 win #5
4mtp

This was 23 minutes after the race.

Post = 3:32
Race = 3:09

[RaceIsClosed]

After scratches 18 races Minus $66.00. I actually lost $19. because I played differently due to the many scatches. But the way the picks were posted a negative $66. is deserved.\

You got credit for a $34.00 hit in the second at Philadelphia due to the scratch. I keyed your top pick over the other two and reversed it because that's still $4.00 and covered your opinion.

I try to duplicate what the typical reader of the board would do with minimum units.

[RaceIsClosed]

I know it's hard to believe, but some people actually bet different amounts depending on things, all bets are not equal to everyone. I have been known to vary my wager amount.

Likewise, if I bet a win ticket and a trifecta in a race, your method would have my win ticket at $2, and maybe my tri comes out costing $48. Do you think anyone bets like that in real life? A blended ROI in that case makes no sense at all.

But it doesn't matter to me, really...its just not what I thought it was, and I'm choosing not to partake. No big deal.

It's not what the handicapper does, it's what the typical reader of the board is likely to do, which is bet minimum units on anyone they have faith in.

If you bet $20 on some horses and $100 on the others, why are you bothering to share the weaker picks or lump them in? In theory, your $100 bets should be stronger and produce a higher ROI. The scoring is designed to punish inclusion of weaker picks (or reward it if they are profitable).

I saw you took $20 on a few horses and $60 on another, so I scored you at $2 and $6. I want to avoid "Martingdale" players who up their units to bail out, which is unrealistic, but if someone has a scale of 1-5 that they stick to I don't mind accommodating that.

I keep exotic and straight ROIs separate for the reasons you spoke of.

[RaceIsClosed]

You say every ticket you ever bought cost you two dollars...some of my win tickets cost me $20, some cost me $200...they don't all cost the same in real life, not to me at least. I don't flat bet.

The second part is that my total ROI is what determines whether I make money or not, which is based on real actual bets, the sum of them all, exotics or not. It sounds like the $ assignments and bets are going to be arbitrarily defined and seperated, which is FINE, most contests are. Real life isn't.

I'm just not all that interested in that, at least not in the format as is. I don't know if that makes any more sense or not, but just drop it. Don't want to screw up this thread any further.

If you weigh your bets, your truest ROI would be your top-bet ROI, which should be the highest of all your plays since they have the most units. If you want a high ROI here, post only those.

The other units would be scaled down from that rather than the top units scaled up.

[RaceIsClosed]

Once again I ask you, where are the post and your off times comming from !! What are you using to get those times, your computer, PaceAdvantage computers, my computer when I post...what? They are not accurate. :mad:

Dude,

Check your ROI. Once the 100 races is up, that's it. The board is for the type of horseplayer who not only shows a profit, but who can do it consistently to the point where he *helps others* make a profit. Each contributor will have a long-term positive ROI, thus making for the strongest possible selection board. I don't care if only four people wind up here, since that's three more expert opinions than the one I work with now (my own).

So far the most noise on this board has been made by the silence of the real pros, who know exactly what I'm doing and why, yet haven't kicked in yet. I suppose they are waiting for the cheap speed to die out and see if there's anything worthy of exchanging with. I understand that and would do the same thing in their shoes. If they start using picks from here they will start contributing as well in order to put money in the pockets of their sources and vice versa.

[Anderon]

Dude,

Check your ROI. Once the 100 races is up, that's it. The board is for the type of horseplayer who not only shows a profit, but who can do it consistently to the point where he *helps others* make a profit. Each contributor will have a long-term positive ROI, thus making for the strongest possible selection board. I don't care if only four people wind up here, since that's three more expert opinions than the one I work with now (my own).

So far the most noise on this board has been made by the silence of the real pros, who know exactly what I'm doing and why, yet haven't kicked in yet. I suppose they are waiting for the cheap speed to die out and see if there's anything worthy of exchanging with. I understand that and would do the same thing in their shoes. If they start using picks from here they will start contributing as well in order to put money in the pockets of their sources and vice versa.

Race or should I say DUDE,
First off are you avoiding the above question for the 2nd or 3rd time now on this time issue !! You even quoted me on it here and didn't give me a response in this reply . I've played about 60 or so race with an WIN ROI of around -10%-14% give or take. So now you are calling yourself an expert, what is your total plays & ROI to date? As far as the so-called pros on the sideline, why are they trying to take and not contribute !! This is total BS !! I will be more than happy to handicap my talent against your expert opinion on flat $2.00 bets and see who has the best talent & ROI between you and myself !! Are you up to it, cause I sure am. I've been playing alot of races so far because I'm testing new theories here and have used this for real time practice, but let me assure you I can handicap with a positive ROI with the best of them, wanna try me just let me know because I sure feel like your calling me out here and if you are no hard feelings from me at all. But don't give us the BS stories here just plain hard handicapping will show the truth !!

[RaceIsClosed]

Race or should I say DUDE,
First off are you avoiding the above question for the 2nd or 3rd time now on this time issue !! You even quoted me on it here and didn't give me a response in this reply . I've played about 60 or so race with an WIN ROI of around -10%-14% give or take. So now you are calling yourself an expert, what is your total plays & ROI to date? As far as the so-called pros on the sideline, why are they trying to take and not contribute !! This is total BS !! I will be more than happy to handicap my talent against your expert opinion on flat $2.00 bets and see who has the best talent & ROI between you and myself !! Are you up to it, cause I sure am. I've been playing alot of races so far because I'm testing new theories here and have used this for real time practice, but let me assure you I can handicap with a positive ROI with the best of them, wanna try me just let me know because I sure feel like your calling me out here and if you are no hard feelings from me at all. But don't give us the BS stories here just plain hard handicapping will show the truth !!

There is nothing stopping anyone from posting with a positive ROI if they can produce. You go $0.50 here no one's going to know about the other winning plays that don't make it. Why would the pros sit on the sidelines? Check the standings. They have to see if anything of value is here first.

My ROI? $0.00 for six races, a head and a neck from being about $1.75 instead. There's a reason I set the bar at 100 races. You've used up 73 of yours.

[Anderon]

There is nothing stopping anyone from posting with a positive ROI if they can produce. You go $0.50 here no one's going to know about the other winning plays that don't make it. Why would the pros sit on the sidelines? Check the standings. They have to see if anything of value is here first.

My ROI? $0.00 for six races, a head and a neck from being about $1.75 instead. There's a reason I set the bar at 100 races. You've used up 73 of yours.

Why are the pros on the sideline watching, is it because they can't pick anything out of there butt either, they need our help...righttt !! Someone that's a so called pro is looking for new talent here :D !! My point is that if they are that good why are they trying to look for some better handicapper than themselves, it's total lunacy. I'll still beat you with my ROI on my 100 races compared to yours in the end my friend, cause you still haven't even hit a winner yet !! And by the way, you still have not answered my question on the post and off time issue !! You seem to be avoiding this question, I wonder why that is?

[Koko]

Anderon and Ultimate Selector. Your efforts will either be a waste (in terms of being + ROI), or will turn out to be an amazing dislpay of prolific profitable betting. I'm willing to guess it will turn out as the former of these possibilities.

Not many people around can be profitable betting 40 horses a day but apparently you two are on a mission to show us that you can. You are both truly amazing talents if you can, but I think the truth is that you can't be at that level of betting. We should know in a day or so since both of you will have used your 100 picks in your most wisest fashion and the numbers won't lie.

[exactaplayer]

This was 23 minutes after the race.

Post = 3:32
Race = 3:09
did you see my reply? I admited i had posted the wrong race and that my actual pick ran out or in other words was a loser. I am not trying to cheat here just made an honest mistake.

[RaceIsClosed]

Anderon and Ultimate Selector. Your efforts will either be a waste (in terms of being + ROI), or will turn out to be an amazing dislpay of prolific profitable betting. I'm willing to guess it will turn out as the former of these possibilities.

Not many people around can be profitable betting 40 horses a day but apparently you two are on a mission to show us that you can. You are both truly amazing talents if you can, but I think the truth is that you can't be at that level of betting. We should know in a day or so since both of you will have used your 100 picks in your most wisest fashion and the numbers won't lie.

That's a lot more diplomatic than I'd have been.

[kid4rilla]

Race,

I don't think I'm alone in thinking that this was a colossal failure.

[Koko]

I'll have to admit, they are two of the most "generous" professional handicappers I've ever run into offering their opponents a juicy 50% of their action. Such a high level of philanthropy being displayed.