Online Poker sets up the cards?

[highnote]

I was playing Poker online today. Some of the other players said that some poker sites "setup" the cards. I asked what that meant. They said it means that the site will deal high cards to more than one player in the same hand so that betting is encouraged. The more money that is bet, the higher the rake.

I said to them, "Give me an example." One guy said often times three players on the same hand will be given JJ, QQ and KK. I said, "It's probably just statistical variation."

So I left the table to find a better one since I was losing at that one.

Sure enough, I play about 6 hands and the betting gets heavy between three players. Two go all in. And the chip leader at the table calls them both. The two losers have JJ and QQ. The winner has KK.

So, of course, I begin to wonder. Is it statistical variation or were the cards being setup to encourage betting?

Anyone have any experience in this? Thanks.

PS

My gut feeling tells me the games are honest. If word ever got out a game was fixed that would be the end of the cash cow.

PPS
PA does this belong in off topic. If so, feel free to move it.

[stlseeeek]

they don;t need to worry about hands being dealt, they only rake so much per hand, regardless of the hand and pot size(i believe online does this also) so they get their $ regardless of a tight table or a loose table, and it's the same rake, pending on table stakes.

trust me, i've felt very leery about online poker, and have checked it out for a few years, but it's on the up and up. they can't afford a scam, it could ruin the whole industry, and for 12billion a year industry, they aren;t going to deal out bogus hands for an extra $3 rake!They have way too much at stake.


i've been in several live games, and have seen AA,KK,KK all dealt in same hand. it does seem that a lot of running flushes or straights happen, but it does in natural game also!



they have too much $$$ at stake to run a bad game!

[santanajimi]

i am not a poker player, but wouldnt you think that the company that runs the game, can actually have a player of their own in the game? And deal THAT player the winning hand. How can you think that is not possible....??

[PaceAdvantage]

My gut feeling tells me the games are honest. If word ever got out a game was fixed that would be the end of the cash cow.

Word is out...whether it is accurate word or not is debatable. What I mean by this is that plenty of folks consider online poker rigged in some way. This could mean anything from what you talked about (dealing cards in a way to juice the pots), to a guy with multiple PCs and multiple IP addresses and multiple online accounts playing more than one seat at the same table, to teams of players using AOL IM or the phone to tell each other what they have so that they can gang up on the other unlucky few playing a legitimate game. Cheating can come in many forms online.....

The online companies themselves are probably the last cheats you have to worry about....the fact that most people find online play odd compared to B&M is that you get to see so many more hands online than you would in brick and mortar rooms that you end up seeing very odd things.....anything and everything will happen in poker. If you play online, you'll be exposed to more of the strange stuff because you'll be playing lots more hands....

If you play long enough, you're bound to see everything.....

[Dave Schwartz]

John,


My gut feeling tells me the games are honest. If word ever got out a game was fixed that would be the end of the cash cow.

You know, I used to hear the same thing in the casino world and cheating was everywhere.

Why? Because they can.

Simply put, a significant percentage of humans will steal if they can. What stops them are two things:

1) Fear of punishment if caught

2) Something that drives their personal, internal honesty. (Conscience? fear of God? Something.)


In the case of on-line poker, the threat of #1 has been removed.


I think it is safe to say that cheating is going on at some sites.

Let's apply a little logic here. You run an online poker game. There is absolutely no gaming control board to oversee what you are doing, no police for to catch you and no court to convict you. The worst that could possibly happen is that you get a bad reputation and have to start over under another name. Heck, you may already have a second poker operation going!

So, what, other than altruistic honesty (a virtue that brick-and-mortar casino owners have never been famous for) would prevent you from "maximizing your profit" in some way at the expense of others?

The answer is "absolutlely nothing."

In summary, when you play a gambling game with an unregulated, uncontrolled and unpoliced casino you are truly relying on the honesty of the highly secretive casino management.

I'd make it odds-on that there is rampant dishonesty in this business.


BTW, the viewpoint from inside the gaming world has always been that somehow stealing from suckers isn't really stealing. They just lose their money a little faster.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[santanajimi]

Funny that you mentioned the AOL IM thing, my kid , who likes to play poker,said the same exact thing......so you can bet that it is for sure going on in just about every game online....he is only 18. ;)

[kingfin66]

I know this guy who has poker blog. He is a big time online and tournament player. Has even made some final tables in televised events (Ulimate Poker Challenge). He just posted this info a couple of days ago. You may find it interesting, and helpful.

http://www.brodietech.com/liontales/blog.htm

[PaceAdvantage]

At least one online cardroom is a multi-billion dollar publicly traded company on the London stock exchange (Party Poker), so at least in their case, there is some oversight and regulation, albeit quite indirectly.....

[JustRalph]

Are you still sometimes playing against BOTS? I read about that a while back and decided that was enough to keep me out of the Online Poker sites.........

[PaceAdvantage]

Are you still sometimes playing against BOTS? I read about that a while back and decided that was enough to keep me out of the Online Poker sites.........

It's probably just me, but I don't really consider bots to be cheating. Bots need to be programmed by humans....yes, they may play perfect strategy, and they may take the emotion out of the game, but that only takes you so far in poker....bots wouldn't worry me too much....

[JustRalph]

It's probably just me, but I don't really consider bots to be cheating. Bots need to be programmed by humans....yes, they may play perfect strategy, and they may take the emotion out of the game, but that only takes you so far in poker....bots wouldn't worry me too much....

Unless they are really good bots! :D :D

[highnote]

It's probably just me, but I don't really consider bots to be cheating. Bots need to be programmed by humans....yes, they may play perfect strategy, and they may take the emotion out of the game, but that only takes you so far in poker....bots wouldn't worry me too much....


I agree. I played against a bot on that resides on a university website. It wasn't a very good player. All you had to do was do unexpected things and it didn't know what to do.

Plus, I think bots play mostly the fixed limit games. No Limit is a game of creativity. I think it would be easy to beat a bot at No Limit.

[highnote]

In summary, when you play a gambling game with an unregulated, uncontrolled and unpoliced casino you are truly relying on the honesty of the highly secretive casino management.

I'd make it odds-on that there is rampant dishonesty in this business.


Thanks, Dave,

Now I feel much better. :D