Pops and Tips Software

[fergie]

Somewhere in the last few pages of the Boxcar thread (which has become apparently one of, if not the most opular thread ever) someone asked about the software that John Worth promised back in the early 90's. To my knowledge, that question was not answered. I wanted to buy it but each time I checked, the answer was that it was still in the programming stage. Never was able to get it, and don't know if it was ever completed. If so, and anyone out there is using it perhaps they could share with the rest of us as to the effectiveness, etc.., and perhaps where to get a copy, if available.

Fergie

[shoelessjoe]

I believe I saw it in Rpm's arsenol at one time .Shoeless

[cato]

The Pops and Tips stuff was interesting and it added to my game but I did not find it to be profitable as it often pointed to many, many horses in a race with many pops and tips

Of course I'm sure it woudl work great if you used it on races that had already been run! :cool:

(but if you could fine the software at a reasonable price it would be interesting to look into.)

Cheers,Cato

[timtam]

There is software with Show a Profit 2 combined with Place your Bets

and it is distributed via RPM. I have the program and was very disappointed

with the results. I tried it on various tracks with much the same negative

results. :(

[fergie]

Thanks for the replies. I tried thr paper pops and tips way back then but was always missing some of them when it came to applying what I'd studied. That's why I thought the program might be much more reliable. My experiences with RPM, however, have not engendered a feeling of trust, so will not follow up on their version. Unfortunately, the only one of those angles that I remember as of this writing is the WUT (wound up tight).

[sligg]

Thanks for the replies. I tried thr paper pops and tips way back then but was always missing some of them when it came to applying what I'd studied. That's why I thought the program might be much more reliable. My experiences with RPM, however, have not engendered a feeling of trust, so will not follow up on their version. Unfortunately, the only one of those angles that I remember as of this writing is the WUT (wound up tight).



Isn't there some similarity between Boxcar's angles and Tom Worth's tips?

[Niko]

Coming from memory:

FH: Freshend horse or Short rest..Boxcar didn't even bother changing the acronym....but it honestly could have been co-incidence because of lot of people did (or do) use the term freshend horse.
NL: New low today
NNL: Near new low today (last was lowest in PP)
O/T: Trainer is owner O/B: Owner is Breeder
LW: Lowest weight today
NLW: Near lowest weight today
JC: Positive jockey change to jockey who has won on horse before
WUTT: Wound up tight. Take numbers of days worked divided by number of days. If total over 1 = WUTT. 5f + 4F + 3F worked in a total of 10 days would be > 1 and thus qualify. May have been something about fast workouts also
Eased last race: Horse showed early speed last race and then faded to be out of the money. Eased two or more races (B angle anyone?)
BG (Big Gain) or Rushed..something like that. Horse gained 5 or more lengths between calls in a race...or 3 or more positions
M: Manipulation. Horse finished in the money 2nd last race and out of the money greater than 10 lenghts last race and vice versa. I believe there were other running line tips but don't remember them.
DC or SC: Distance change or surface change from last or last two
CL: Horse was claimed, re-claimed

There were 30 or more but it's been so long. Another concept was clusters. A grouping of angles that were strong.

If I re-call Cl, OT, NL or LW was a strong cluster
Wutt and something was supposed to be to...

This was one of the first introductions I had in horseracing. It was a lot of fun to play, took a TON of time..pointed out some real longshots but then I started focusing on profit and what really caused horses to win.....I'm still trying to figure out that last part a lot of the time :) .

Mabye this will jog someone else's memory and they can add to it. Then the people that would like to learn about angles can take this list, combine it with Boxcars, play around with it and include some nice longshots they may not have caught in their bets. They're still in the back of my mind.

[Niko]

In the above thread I was referring to Tom Worths Tips of course.
There was a LW, JC and x cluster also....

[Tom]

Did Tom Worth provide selections before the race was run?

[Niko]

Was there a forum where he was able to? Is it relevant to today's situation?

[Tom]

I thought you couldn't gain anything without that. You mean you actually learned from just a raw angle out there?

Interesting.

[Niko]

I learned that I could throw away 95% of it and not diminish my performance. I learned that I wasted a lot of time trying to figure out what was valid or not (and that could be different for different individuals but you're going to have hell of hard time making an angle work that loses 20% compared to 5 or 10%).

I learned that seeing an entire race handicapped was a lot more valuable than seeing one horse taken out of context, I learned that hearing or seeing someone going through the thought process was a lot more valuable than single instances that often contained shaded versions of the rules so they'd fit. And I learned when I spoke with people or experts that were willing to share their valuable insights, that they had no problem discussing it before a race was run.

When I pick up a book I can learn from it after the fact. But there's some books who's advice has proven pretty crappy over the long run and some that are very good. It's always good to discuss and challenge the validity of a concept. Eventually the truth proves comes to the surface. Hindsight and curve fitting can be dangerous. Putting it into print doesn't make something so.

So I'm not debating if angles themselves are good or bad.....or whether you can learn from things after they've happened. I've said in numerous posts I support angles. I really wanted to learn from Boxcar-- believe or not. No reason to re-iterate what's already happened, good and bad.

I don't want to turn this into another thread that has gone like others so this is my last opinion on the topic here. I'm sure there'll be a lot of happy people to hear that.