Danish paper apologizes

[highnote]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2631&ncid=2631&e=25&u=/nm/20060219/ts_nm/religion_cartoons_apology_dc_1

On the one hand, I think they were wrong to give in to pressure.

On the other hand, maybe it's better they take the high road. Obviously, the Muslims who are the most destructive are just thugs and probably not great political thinkers. These Muslims are not able to control their emotional responses. If a simple apology, no matter how sincere or insincere, will do the job, then it's probably the best thing to do.

[lsbets]

There is a real danger in what has been happening as a result of these cartoon riots, and that is that the press is voluntarily giving up their rights to print news stories. The vast majority of major US papers decided not to publish even one of the cartoons when talking about the story, leaving many of its readers to either: 1) wonder what all the fuss was about, or 2) assume that the cartoons are much worse and offensive than they actually are. I think anyone who had seen them would be hard pressed not to realize what the artist was trying to say - that Islam has been hijacked by a bunch of radicals who are abusing their religion for murderous ends. Agree with that or not, it is pretty obvious that is what those works of political commentary say.

Several college papers decided to run the cartoons. In every single case, the Muslim Student Organizations (who btw get most of their off campus funding from Wahabi sources, but that is a seperate discussion) claimed that the papers had no right to show the cartoons. Hello? They have the right to print what they want - freedom of the press - and by seeing the cartoons, people can understand what is happenning. Heck, I think it would be great if those rioting actually saw the cartoons, I think most of them have not.

A fatwa was issued calling for the cartoonists death. Riots have happenned all over the world, and even here in the U.S., and enormous amount of pressure has been brought to keep the cartoons (and an accurate depiction of what happenned) from being published. So, in the face of intimidation and violence, the media is abdicating its duty to tell the story so as to not offend. Its really shameful. A radio host in SC who ran the cartoons on his website has received death threats. The message being sent is riot and burn and threaten us with violence and we will give you your way.

[Tom]

Madmen and thier ridiculous actions have now been rewarded.

I hope some other newpaper with a bit more integrity picks up the toons and plasters them on the front page.

When will the world learn to stand up to these islamic murders?

Sad day for humanity.

[kenwoodallpromos]

You are forgetting that the West and especially the USA sometimes gives in. Black riots, animal rights radicals, La Raza. Giving in is the name of the game- but in this case, the game kill all non-muslims.

[GameTheory]

I understand the fear of publishing, but the press has strength in numbers. If a paper is too cowardly to go out on a limb and be the first to publish (in the U.S.), then ALL the papers should get together and publish them all on the same day in every paper....

[Tom]

GT- excellant idea.

Then, everyone should be prepared, when deadly riots break out to shoot to kill and leave the bodies in the streets - a message. Perhaps even go as far as castrating the bodies and burning the members, so that they will not be able to take advantage of their 72 virgins.

[highnote]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060219/ap_on_re_eu/austria_holocaust_denial;_ylt=AjErxmx0U1SnbYrF6s9t FD69IxIF;_ylu=X3oDMTA4NTMzazIyBHNlYwMxNjk2

This is rather ironic -- a man is arrested and faces up to 10 years in prison in Austria for denying the Holocaust happened.

I don't understand European's notion of Freedom of Speech or of the Press.

If someone wrote in the U.S. that the Holocaust never happened they might be ridiculed, but would they be arrested?

The Holocaust and pictures of Mohammad are obviously sensitive issues.

Maybe the Mulsims have a point -- at least when it comes to Europe.

Maybe Freedom of Speech should be politically correct?

[rastajenk]

But it may be that they didn't apologize after all. (http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/684544.html) Could be typical Muslim bullshit. I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the Koran about honoring the truth.

[GameTheory]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060219/ap_on_re_eu/austria_holocaust_denial;_ylt=AjErxmx0U1SnbYrF6s9t FD69IxIF;_ylu=X3oDMTA4NTMzazIyBHNlYwMxNjk2

This is rather ironic -- a man is arrested and faces up to 10 years in prison in Austria for denying the Holocaust happened.

I don't understand European's notion of Freedom of Speech or of the Press.

If someone wrote in the U.S. that the Holocaust never happened they might be ridiculed, but would they be arrested?

The Holocaust and pictures of Mohammad are obviously sensitive issues.

Maybe the Mulsims have a point -- at least when it comes to Europe.

Maybe Freedom of Speech should be politically correct?
That is the result of them losing WWII. Just like the Japanese are constitionally required to be pacifist, anything to do with Nazism is strictly forbidden in Germany (and Austria, I'm guessing). They aren't even allowed to have any historical Nazi paraphernalia, for instance. Stuff that people collect in the U.S. is illegal over there. So that is a specific exception to their freedoms -- kill 6 million jews and you can expect a crackdown like that...

[highnote]

That is the result of them losing WWII. Just like the Japanese are constitionally required to be pacifist, anything to do with Nazism is strictly forbidden in Germany (and Austria, I'm guessing). They aren't even allowed to have any historical Nazi paraphernalia, for instance. Stuff that people collect in the U.S. is illegal over there. So that is a specific exception to their freedoms -- kill 6 million jews and you can expect a crackdown like that...

That makes sense. Maybe then Europeans need to be a little more sensitive to Muslim issues.

It wouldn't hurt for everyone on this planet to be more civil.

[GameTheory]

Or maybe the Muslims need to be less sensitive about cartoons...

[lsbets]

That makes sense. Maybe then Europeans need to be a little more sensitive to Muslim issues.

It wouldn't hurt for everyone on this planet to be more civil.

But what happens when Muslim groups decide that they want to force censorship on an otherwise free society through pressure and intimidation? Is that "sensitive" or "civil" on their part?

I love free speech - in general, I think it exposes people to be what they are - right wrong, well intentioned, idiots, or morons - most folks can figure it out. I also love the right to rebuttal, which so many who claim free speech as a defense seem to be offended by. You know the type - I can say whatever I want, but how dare you respond in a manner of which I do not approve.

Back to the censorship through pressure - we have seen it happen on a small scale in our country already. I forget the name of the guy, but a talk radio host in DC was fired because he refused to apologize to CAIR (Council on American Islamic Relations) after he discussed the fact that most of CAIRs founders had later been linked to terrorist organizations. The Tom Clancy book The Sum of All Fears was changed when it was made into a movie so that the terrorists who were in the book would not be Muslims when the movie was made. This happenned after pressure was placed on the studio. Fox TV came under a ton of pressure because of 24 last season. The basic attitude of Muslim groups, even in this country, is they do not believe in free speech if it portrays Muslims in an unfavorable light, even though those portrayals come from the actions of those who claim to represent Islam. We are slowly but surely seeing institutions in this country who could care less about offending Christians and Jews become very sensitive so as to not offend Muslims. That's just plain wrong - there is no right not to be offended. Maybe if Muslims would stop strapping bombs to themselves and blowing up women and children no one would feel the need to draw Mohamed's turban as a bomb. That would go a long way towards improving the image of Islam - stop commiting terrorism in the name of the religion. Crap, it sounds so easy.

[highnote]

Personally, I feel what happens in Denmark, stays in Denmark.

If you're a Muslim and you don't like the way Dane's portray Muslim's that's really too bad. It's the Dane's right. It's their country.

What if Christians started to kill Muslims because Muslim's don't believe Jesus is God in human form? That notion is sacrilegious to Christians. Why aren't Christians rioting in the streets and sacking embassys of Islamic nations?

I often disagree with the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses, but they don't pull out a gun and shoot me when I tell them I think they're wrong. [note to self: insert Jehovah Witness joke here :D ]

[kenwoodallpromos]

This from a CAIR Action Alert:
"We argue over whether America was founded on the ideals of our Judeo-Christian faiths; we're told it's at least impolite to think so. Muslims, even many of the peaceful Muslims, work for the day when their progeny will live in an Islamic world."
I guess the "work" is blowing up the basement then top floors of the WTC. And shoe bombings. And killing a Jew at the LA Airport. And donating to terrorists who come to their church. And becoming DC snipers. And teaching Mike Tyson (and many others) how to act after prison. And kidnapping Christian journalisrs. And the latest- killing 16 Christians (in Nigeria?) today.
These are the animals who believe in lying for their cause and say they want to live and let live.
And some on this forum think they should be treated with more sensitivity.

[highnote]

And some on this forum think they should be treated with more sensitivity.

Doesn't the Bible say the meek shall inherit the Earth?

Doesn't good always triumph over evil?

The only Muslims that should not be treated with sensitivity are the ones who are violent. The majority of Muslims want to live in peace. It's the radical minority that are the problem.

[Tom]

This whole thig is being orchestrated - it is a political, not a religious event. Most muslems are just too stupid to understand it. I only cuaght part of it on 60 Mins last night, but they interviewed on of the script writters - I will look for a transcript today.

Whatever, it only reinforces my opinion of islam - where were the concerned arabs when SH gassed thousands, when he tortured and killed innocent people? Where was the outcry when the taliban took over Afghanistan?
The islamic community is not able to live in peace with anyone - they are dangerous and they are out to destory us....wake up.

[GaryG]

As I have said, we should have killed SH immediately and gotten the hell out of there. It is a no win situation and even if we can establish some kind of democratic govt it will just be overthrown by the next dictator. I support our troops as much as anyone but I hate to see them dying for a cause like this. We are indeed at war with islam and we must recognize that. I would rather see us join with Israel in a balls to the wall war against Iran and the first arab sob to complain would be next on the list.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Freedom of speech is being held hostage.The only people in the world who arent allowed to express their beliefs is the white man.

[Tom]

I think it is time for Americans to make Tee shirts with the cartoon on it and start picketing and harrassing mosques everywhere. And thier private homes - businesses.

[PaceAdvantage]

Freedom of speech is being held hostage.The only people in the world who arent allowed to express their beliefs is the white man.


Huh?

[fergie]

The ranks of the virgins must be getting mighty slim. Can you picture Kah Boom complaining about last night--"Whatever you do don't drop your veil, no! No! Aw Crap You ruined it for me!!"

[Light]

When I was a teenager, I used to tell everyone and anyone exactly what I thought of them. One day I did this with someone I cared about who was deeply hurt by my frankness. That's when I learned that I had freedom of speech,but it is not an island unto itself. There is also respect,sensitivity, and consequences surrounding it at all times..Freedom of speech is for mature adults,not idiots. And you don't need to know that debasing a religion is an idiotic,senseless,hurtful,self destructive form of freedom of speech.

[lsbets]

When I was a teenager, I used to tell everyone and anyone exactly what I thought of them. One day I did this with someone I cared about who was deeply hurt by my frankness. That's when I learned that I had freedom of speech,but it is not an island unto itself. There is also respect,sensitivity, and consequences surrounding it at all times..Freedom of speech is for mature adults,not idiots. And you don't need to know that debasing a religion is an idiotic,senseless,hurtful,self destructive form of freedom of speech.

I don't know what the intent of the artist was, but I did not interpret the cartoons as debasing an entire religion. I saw them as a commentary on the reality of those who are hijacking the religion in the name of terror. I'm sure many Muslims see that commentary as hurtful, and given what is happenning around the world in the name of their religion they should be hurt by it and take actions against those who defame it through actions of terrorism, not those who comment on those actions in cartoons.

[Light]

I don't know what the intent of the artist was, but I did not interpret the cartoons as debasing an entire religion.

How can a cartoon of Mohammed with a bomb strapped to his head or Mohammed as half pig not be seen as debasing the entire Muslim religion when he is their prophet?

[lsbets]

How can a cartoon of Mohammed with a bomb strapped to his head or Mohammed as half pig not be seen as debasing the entire Muslim religion when he is their prophet?

The picture with the pig was actually a fake that was never run, and it appears that it had been created by the Danish Imam who brought the pictures to Suadi Arabia to whip up outrage. I'll try to chase down the links, but the origin of the pig cartoon seems to be a picture of a Frenchman who won a pig calling contest, that was scanned into a computer, and given the look of a cartoon. I'm not kidding on that either - when you see the French pig calling contest picture, it is readily apparent that it is the same exact picture that the Danish Imam tried to pass of as a cartoon.

I think the one with the bomb turban speaks for itself. I see it as a commentary on those who have hijacked the religion.

[lsbets]

Wow, that was even easier to find than I though it would be:

Here is the pig calling photo:

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001994024

and here is the side by side of the "cartoon" and the pig sqeeler:

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7050/620/1600/pig%20callers.0.jpg

If anyone believes this whole event was not contrived and staged, they are nuts.

[GameTheory]

Even if it did debase the whole religion, even if the cartoon was downright offensive, it is no excuse for the reaction to it. Cartoons (& TV shows & movies, etc) debasing Christianity are quite common, for example...

[Light]

The way you interpret the cartoons,is up to you.But the consesus among Muslims,is what counts and should have been taken into account before the pictures were published.

Also this Danish paper is very right wing. They had been approached about debasing cartoons about Jesus and Jews and turned them down. They obviously did not want backlash from those groups. So the freedom of speech argument does not fly here. They obviously didn't feel a freedom of speech to ridicule Jesus or the Jews,but Muslims were expendable.

[lsbets]

The way you interpret the cartoons,is up to you.But the consesus among Muslims,is what counts and should have been taken into account before the pictures were published.

Also this Danish paper is very right wing. They had been approached about debasing cartoons about Jesus and Jews and turned them down. They obviously did not want backlash from those groups. So the freedom of speech argument does not fly here. They obviously didn't feel a freedom of speech to ridicule Jesus or the Jews,but Muslims were expendable.

Is that how we determine how we excercise our freedom of speech - by whether or not Muslims approve? Or do we have to get the approval of anyone who might be offended by what we say before we speak?

There is no right not to be offended. I would be willing to bet that most of those who are rioting over the cartoons have never actually seen them, and if they have seen any its been the fake pig one. This event has been staged, and to look at the reactions and decide we can't say anything that might offend the Muslim world is simply nonsensical.

In terms of the paper printing cartoons about other religions, freedom of speech or press does not mean you have to print everything everyone wants you to. Its a private business, they can ptint whatever they want. Perhaps they did not feel the other cartoons sent any kind of a valid message. I don't know, and I really don't care either. The one who bears the initial responsibility for the deaths and violence in reaction to this is the Danish Imam who bolstered his case for outrage by using fake images, because the initial reaction was not what he wanted.

[chickenhead]

But the consesus among Muslims,is what counts and should have been taken into account before the pictures were published.


Political cartoons are supposed to bite..they are supposed to have some sting to them. That is what the whole genre is about...satire.

The fact that the subject of the satire, Muslims, have burned down buildings and rioted over it does not mean it was not good or worthy satire, if anything it says it was very good satire, necessary even. The cartoon had a point, it was not an insult or a hasty mistake, it was crafted to say what it did on purpose.

[kenwoodallpromos]

I be repeating an earlier post on another thread:
"As we have described earlier, there are many practical obstacles in the establishing Allah's rule on earth, such as the power of state, the social system and traditions and, in general, the whole human environment. Islam uses force only to remove these obstacles so that there may not remain any wall between Islam and individual human beings, and so that it may address their hearts and minds after releasing them from these material obstacles, and then leave them free to choose to accept or reject it."
(In other words, praise allah or be nuked!)

[BIG RED]

Madmen and thier ridiculous actions have now been rewarded.

I hope some other newpaper with a bit more integrity picks up the toons and plasters them on the front page.

When will the world learn to stand up to these islamic murders?

Sad day for humanity.

Tom, there was a small local paper here around Boston, which is very 'liberal', that printed the cartoon every Muslim is upset about. They were actually calling out The Globe and The Herald of being 'cowards', and hoped they followed with the same. No dice. It was the Pheonix. This I was glad to see, but was a bit surprised.

[BIG RED]

I understand the fear of publishing, but the press has strength in numbers. If a paper is too cowardly to go out on a limb and be the first to publish (in the U.S.), then ALL the papers should get together and publish them all on the same day in every paper....

I have actually been praying to Allah to see this happen.

[lsbets]

Good commentary from Chrisopher Hitchens:

The incredible thing about the ongoing Kristallnacht against Denmark (and in some places, against the embassies and citizens of any Scandinavian or even European Union nation) is that it has resulted in, not opprobrium for the religion that perpetrates and excuses it, but increased respectability! A small democratic country with an open society, a system of confessional pluralism, and a free press has been subjected to a fantastic, incredible, organized campaign of lies and hatred and violence, extending to one of the gravest imaginable breaches of international law and civility: the violation of diplomatic immunity. And nobody in authority can be found to state the obvious and the necessary—that we stand with the Danes against this defamation and blackmail and sabotage. Instead, all compassion and concern is apparently to be expended upon those who lit the powder trail, and who yell and scream for joy as the embassies of democracies are put to the torch in the capital cities of miserable, fly-blown dictatorships. Let's be sure we haven't hurt the vandals' feelings.

You wish to say that it was instead a small newspaper in Copenhagen that lit the trail? What abject masochism and nonsense. It was the arrogant Danish mullahs who patiently hawked those cartoons around the world (yes, don't worry, they are allowed to exhibit them as much as they like) until they finally provoked a vicious response against the economy and society of their host country. For good measure, they included a cartoon that had never been published in Denmark or anywhere else. It showed the Prophet Mohammed as a pig, and may or may not have been sent to a Danish mullah by an anonymous ill-wisher. The hypocrisy here is shameful, nauseating, unpardonable. The original proscription against any portrayal of the prophet—not that this appears to be absolute—was superficially praiseworthy because it was intended as a safeguard against idolatry and the worship of images. But now see how this principle is negated. A rumor of a cartoon in a faraway country is enough to turn the very name Mohammed into a fetish-object and an excuse for barbaric conduct. As I write this, the death toll is well over 30 and—guess what?—a mullah in Pakistan has offered $1 million and a car as a bribe for the murder of "the cartoonist." This incitement will go unpunished and most probably unrebuked.

http://www.slate.com/id/2136714/

[Tom]

The way you interpret the cartoons,is up to you.But the consesus among Muslims,is what counts and should have been taken into account before the pictures were published.



Like THEY took into account beheading poeple?
Like THEY took into account before 9-11?
Since when does what any muslem thinks count for spit around here?

I would not print them in a paper in thier country, but who the HELL do they think they are telling Denmark what to do?

Offending muslems is not on my list of things to avoid.

[Tom]

ls...and Pakistan is supposed to be our allie? :lol:

They protect OBL, they sanction murder andobunties, and we do noting about it? Yeah, Pakistan - real great friend to have. :bang:

[Light]

What I find hypocritical is saying they are overreacting.Yes they are,but in this country,we have overreacted to similar issues. There is a tendency in the west to portray all Muslims as fanatical.Maybe they've just had enough of racial profiling,Abu Grabe,political oppression and now humiliation of their prophet.Nobody in the West would stand to be treated this way so don't expect them to be any different.

[lsbets]

What I find hypocritical is saying they are overreacting.Yes they are,but in this country,we have overreacted to similar issues.

Really? I guess I missed the news story about the Saudi embassy being burned in DC. :rolleyes:

[chickenhead]

Is there any behavior that you wouldn't excuse, Light? Or is Western Civilization just so evil that any act is justifiable, or at least excusable?

[kenwoodallpromos]

Of course! We have many allies- everybody we beat in a war! (England, France, Spain, Navaho, Etc. Etc) :lol:

[Light]

Is there any behavior that you wouldn't excuse, Light? Or is Western Civilization just so evil that any act is justifiable, or at least excusable?

Now you're getting it. No I'm not condoning violence but like Christ said:


"You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

[chickenhead]

and I say: Best to make sure the other guy doesn't kill you while you are busy rubbing your eyes.

The thing that bothers me Light is you seem to jump in at every possible convenience to pass judgement on us, "the west" and it's citizens...yet you reserve judgment on everyone else.....where did Jesus talk about selective judgement being ok? I talk all the time about things I think are wrong in this country (and so do you)....why do you come down on the other side of things here.....somehow we are not allowed to criticize in one instance, but are in the other. THAT sounds like some hypocrisy.

[Light]

Muslims are the butt of a joke. And you want me to join The PA jockstrap mentality of kicking someone when they're down?

How bout if you or your family or religion,was being dragged through humiliation. Would you criticized me for defending you?

[chickenhead]

How bout if you or your family or religion,was being dragged through humiliation. Would you criticized me for defending you?

I do not like your analogy because it is the terrorists who are humiliating their religion, not the Dutch. Secondly, if I was the undeserving butt of a "joke", sure I'd like it if you defended me. But would you also defend me if I burned down the guys house over it, and put a contract out on him to be killed?

The cartoon was satire, not a mean spirited joke, but even if it was, there is ZERO equivalence between the original action (cartoon) and the reaction (dead people and burning buildings)

[JustRalph]

Interesting take.......that goes along with some of this thread

http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/welcome.cgi

[highnote]

Ralph,
Isn't this your neck of the woods? ...........
===========================================

Attorney: Men sentenced in robberies directed by elder



COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) - An attorney for one of five Somali men who pleaded guilty in a string of robberies says the men were directed by an elder or group of elders from their immigrant community.

Gary Dicker, attorney for Muhadin Munye, said there appears to be at least one other gang robbing for a man called "Fagan,'' after a character in Charles Dickens' "Oliver Twist'' who taught orphans to steal.
The five men suspected in more than 25 robberies in August pleaded guilty to some of them this week in agreements with prosecutors. Police said the robberies were committed on the city's west side and in suburban Hilliard.

The robbers used guns to steal from pizza delivery drivers and men and women sitting in their cars, and invaded at least one home, prosecutors said.

All five face possible deportation after finishing their prison terms.

Munye, 21, pleaded guilty to seven counts of aggravated robbery and was sentenced to nine years in prison.

"His parents were tortured to death in front of him in Somalia,'' Dicker said. "He faces deportation to Somalia ... a fate worse than prison.''

Columbus has the second-largest population of Somalis in the United States, coming here starting in the 1990s to escape a civil war.

The four other men also pleaded guilty to aggravated robbery charges. Mohamed Margen, 22, and Jamal Yusuf, 20, each were sentenced to nine years in prison, and Mohamed Abdi, 19, and Abdullahi Aden, 20, were sentenced to four years each in prison.

---

Information from: The Columbus Dispatch, http://www.dispatch.com

[GameTheory]

Muslims are the butt of a joke. And you want me to join The PA jockstrap mentality of kicking someone when they're down?

How bout if you or your family or religion,was being dragged through humiliation. Would you criticized me for defending you?People are rioting! If I insult you, are you going to come and burn my house down? If not, I assume it is because you think that it would be wrong to burn my house down EVEN THOUGH you've been insulted by me? How can you possibly even argue about this? There is no excuse for riots and destruction NO MATTER WHAT they publish in the paper...

[lsbets]

How can you possibly even argue about this?

You haven't figured it out yet?

[Light]

GT

Do me a favor. Draw an offensive cartoon of a black man. I'll assume you are white. Now go into Black Ghetto neighborhood anywhere in the U.S. and parade it while while you talk about freedom of speech and how people can overeact to a silly cartoon. See you at your funeral.

[GameTheory]

Do me a favor. Draw an offensive cartoon of a black man. I'll assume you are white. Now go into Black Ghetto neighborhood anywhere in the U.S. and parade it while while you talk about freedom of speech and how people can overeact to a silly cartoon. See you at your funeral.And those people that will kill me get a pass for doing so? They are not to be criticized because if you are offended you get to do anything?

[lsbets]

And those people that will kill me get a pass for doing so? They are not to be criticized because if you are offended you get to do anything?

Not quite - if you are an offended Muslim, who by virtue of being a Muslim has been oppressed and mocked by the west, then you get to do anything.

[chickenhead]

And those people that will kill me get a pass for doing so? They are not to be criticized because if you are offended you get to do anything?

Only if provoked by a cartoon. A bad cartoon trumps all.

[highnote]

I think if you did that in a black neighborhood you'd get away with it. Black Americans would understand that you are making a statement about freedom of speech.

Please, Light, give Americans a little more credit.

[Tom]

What I find hypocritical is saying they are overreacting.Yes they are,but in this country,we have overreacted to similar issues. There is a tendency in the west to portray all Muslims as fanatical.Maybe they've just had enough of racial profiling,Abu Grabe,political oppression and now humiliation of their prophet.Nobody in the West would stand to be treated this way so don't expect them to be any different.

If somebody from the West continually committed acts of terror, I would treat them the same way. And if muslems do not like the way the west protrays them in cartoons, they can GO HOME. Muslems are not requried to live in the west - they can go find a nice cozy cave anywhere in the middle east they want. And they have NO RIGHT to make demands on western nations reguarding our freedom of the press. Have you listnened to coments some of these mad dogs have made?
You want to live in an islamic controlled environment - go home. This is not it. We do not owe you or mohamed anything. Where was your great prophet when the taliban were supressing women, tortuting, killing people in Afghanistan? When SH gassed thousands of innocent people? Was he on break? Out shopping for a new hat? Searching for virgins? You whine about Abu Grad, where where you when SH was in power? What happened in Abu Grad was NOTHING compared to what SH did, yet I don't recall your protests then.
You have thousands of dead muslems burined in the mud in the Phillipines - and guess who is there digging them out - WESTERNERS. Where is the Iranina contingnet, the Sorry Arabia teams, the Palestinean Red Cross?
You accuse us of being so evil - why are you here? You expecting us to change to make you feel cozy? Guess again. Not everyone in the west is fooled by this poor misunderstood muslem BS, this is not all of us, just extremist lies.

[Tom]

GT

Do me a favor. Draw an offensive cartoon of a black man. I'll assume you are white. Now go into Black Ghetto neighborhood anywhere in the U.S. and parade it while while you talk about freedom of speech and how people can overeact to a silly cartoon. See you at your funeral.

Get real. The cartoons were carried into islamic cities by ISLAMICS looking to create problems. The cartoons were printed last Septemeber and not much was said. This whole thing is apolitical ploy - it is MUSLEMS who are distributing the cartoons - most western newspapers refuesed to print them.
Muslems are the cause of thier being spread throught the muslem world.
Have you even SEEN the cartoons? IF you find that bomb in his turbin offense, worthy of killing people, you need to get help.

[PaceAdvantage]

How bout if you or your family or religion,was being dragged through humiliation. Would you criticized me for defending you?

You mean like the Christians in this country?

[GaryG]

You mean like the Christians in this country?That is a great point. It is acceptable to bash Christians, calling them extremists etc, just like it is acceptable for blacks to say how much they hate whites. Look at that idiot Farrakhan....does anyone ever condemn him? :bang:

[Light]

And if muslems do not like the way the west protrays them in cartoons, they can GO HOME.


There's just one little problem with that statement. They are home.
The U.S.,Jews and GB started this whole crisis.They went over there and still are there. Muslims never came here before that.Capiche? You need to remember who invaded who.

[lsbets]

There's just one little problem with that statement. They are home.
The U.S.,Jews and GB started this whole crisis.They went over there and still are there. Muslims never came here before that.Capiche? You need to remember who invaded who.

Two nations and an entire religion. Note the phrasing everyone - he didn't say Israel, he said Jews. Pretty much confirms what I have suspected.

[Light]

Give it a rest LS. Some of the best friends in my life have been jews.

[GaryG]

Give it a rest LS. Some of the best friends in my life have been jews.Found a few decent ones eh? Real nice. I am with ls on this one.

[lsbets]

Give it a rest LS. Some of the best friends in my life have been jews.

GIve what a rest? Quoting you? If you don't want to be quoted, than don't post - otherwise I'll quote.

[Tom]

There's just one little problem with that statement. They are home.
The U.S.,Jews and GB started this whole crisis.They went over there and still are there. Muslims never came here before that.Capiche? You need to remember who invaded who.

September 11, 2001.
They came here.
They attacked US property - the Cole.
They came here and attacked the WTC in 1993.
They attacked Us embassies and troop barracks.
Befroe that, there was Achillies Lauro, the 1972 Olympics......muslems have a real impressive history of being civilized, I must say.

We will finish it. Capice?
Anyone who thinks Bush is a war monger better bow and face mecca that I am not president.

Iraq invaded Kuwait...we,with the UB liberated them, Iraq surrendered and agreed to terms. They failed to live up to those terms. The cease fire was then nullified and we went back.

We went to Afghanistan looking for the low lifes who attacked US,. I agree we should not have sent troops - we should have send nukes. Capice?

Is there a passage in the koran about denial and cherry picking facts?

[Tom]

Give it a rest LS. Some of the best friends in my life have been jews.

They used to say about Black people.
Then put on thier hoods. A go ride the welcome wagon.

The US has bent over backwards to deal with this kind of people.....what are the bullet points of the "good" muslem's actions to take care of thier extemists?

[rastajenk]

Light, what's it like being on common ground with David Duke and other neo-Nazis? Do you get good sleep at night?

[Bala]

"....They attacked US property - the Cole.
They came here and attacked the WTC in 1993.
They attacked Us embassies and troop barracks.
Befroe that, there was Achillies Lauro, the 1972 Olympics...."__________________________________________________

Just some lowlights:

Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim outrage.

Muslim officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia. A Christian school. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt. No Muslim outrage.

A Muslim attacks a missionary children's school in India. Kills six. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia. Muslims shoot children in the back. No Muslim outrage.

Let's go way back. Muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses. Over 700 are injured. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali. No Muslim outrage.

Muslim newspapers publish offensive and vicious anti-Semitic cartoons on a daily basis that demean and dehumanize Jews and that call for their extermination. Their cartoons, among other things, characterize Jews as snakes and rats wearing the Star of David and the traditional skullcap and prayershawl. This imagery is indistinguishable from the hate cartoons of the Nazis. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims kill Israeli pregnant mother and then shoot her four daughters at near point-blank. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge. No Muslim outrage.

Newspapers in Denmark and Norway publish cartoons depicting Mohammed. Muslims are outraged.

Dead children. Dead tourists. Dead teachers. Dead doctors and nurses. Death, destruction and mayhem around the world at the hands of Muslims .. no Muslim outrage ... but publish a cartoon depicting Mohammed with a bomb in his turban and all hell breaks loose.

[lsbets]

Here is a link that shows some pretty good cartoons that have been published in the US the last few days. I'm too tired to try to shrink them down to post, but check them out, some of them are really good:

http://www.eclectecon.com/posts/1140731165.shtml

[highnote]

excellent link. thanks.

[lsbets]

I like the one about drawing the line for free speech.