PIZZOLLA SOFTWARE

[gillb]

Where can I get a copy of the Master Handicapper ?

Thanks

Bernie

[Vegas711]

Check their website www.postimedaily.com (http://www.postimedaily.com)

[thebeacondeacon]

Check their website www.postimedaily.com (http://www.postimedaily.com)

That URL is actually www.posttimedaily.com.

My suggestion is that you get into the Value Tech version of the newer program, "The Master Magician", instead of the older software, "The Master Handicapper". It costs about the same amount of money, and the numbers it generates are very good. In the The Master Magician ValueTech™ Mega Package, you also receive a very rich instructional package.

The companion tapes and manual for TMH, "The Master Key to Handicapping", is far and away one of the finest pieces of racing information that has every been published and is a good foundation for the way you will approach horse racing using "The Master Magician".

http://www.handicappers.com/products/tmk.htm

Best of Luck.

[boxcar]

That URL is actually www.posttimedaily.com.

My suggestion is that you get into the Value Tech version of the newer program, "The Master Magician", instead of the older software, "The Master Handicapper". It costs about the same amount of money, and the numbers it generates are very good. In the The Master Magician ValueTech™ Mega Package, you also receive a very rich instructional package.

The companion tapes and manual for TMH, "The Master Key to Handicapping", is far and away one of the finest pieces of racing information that has every been published and is a good foundation for the way you will approach horse racing using "The Master Magician".

http://www.handicappers.com/products/tmk.htm

Best of Luck.

Deacon, I realize that what I'm about to ask is aking to asking, "how high is up?", but nonetheless I'd like your opinion, since you must use this software. What kind of learning curve would there be for an average Joe Blow like myself?

Also, are there special files that must dl'd or can their standard single format c-d files that are viewable in the now-defunct Handicapper's Daily Sofware be used? If special files, what's the cost per file? I'm just wonderin' if I'd be able to use my old ITS files for testing purposes, of which I have an abundance.

Thanks,
Boxcar

[shanta]

Deacon, I realize that what I'm about to ask is aking to asking, "how high is up?", but nonetheless I'd like your opinion, since you must use this software. What kind of learning curve would there be for an average Joe Blow like myself?

Also, are there special files that must dl'd or can their standard single format c-d files that are viewable in the now-defunct Handicapper's Daily Sofware be used? If special files, what's the cost per file? I'm just wonderin' if I'd be able to use my old ITS files for testing purposes, of which I have an abundance.

Thanks,
Boxcar

Not Deacon but to answer your questions:

1) Learning curve- Really is a fairly simple software to use. Has a selector that picks pacelines, an accupressure screen telling u if u should favor early or late, 3 oddslines based on " normal - early - late". Software is very user friendly and also NOT being supported by "Posttime daily".

There is also a screen where u enter the horse's last 3 Beyer numbers and it spits out an oddsline based on how the PUBLIC should be betting the horse. Theory being PUBLIC is speed figure crazy. You look for horse's the public should NOT like that the software DOES like

2) Data files- the program can be used 2 ways
a) manual input- using this the "accupressure" read is NOT available
b) TMH files - the software will NOT operate on ITS files . It is a special TMH file accessed thru Post Time daily. The files are $ 1.50 a card.

Software in my opinion is very good. Problem area is updating the pars which have long since been abandoned Boxcar. However if u have a good set of them the program allows you to enter them.

hope this helps
Richie

[boxcar]

Not Deacon but to answer your questions:

1) Learning curve- Really is a fairly simple software to use. Has a selector that picks pacelines, an accupressure screen telling u if u should favor early or late, 3 oddslines based on " normal - early - late". Software is very user friendly and also NOT being supported by "Posttime daily".

Huh? That's not nice news. Then who supports it? Anyone?

There is also a screen where u enter the horse's last 3 Beyer numbers and it spits out an oddsline based on how the PUBLIC should be betting the horse. Theory being PUBLIC is speed figure crazy. You look for horse's the public should NOT like that the software DOES like

Well, heck...that's exactly what I used to do. Look for horses the public tends to kick out. (At this point, my inboard 'puter might be as good as their software. :) )

But the software uses Beyers!? I thought DRF had the exclusive with those figs? (I think I read on their site that they use data from Equibase.) This is more bad news. I can't stand BSFs! They stink for evaluting form cycles.

2) Data files- the program can be used 2 ways
a) manual input- using this the "accupressure" read is NOT available
b) TMH files - the software will NOT operate on ITS files . It is a special TMH file accessed thru Post Time daily. The files are $ 1.50 a card.

More bad news. I can't use what I have an abundance of. :bang:

Software in my opinion is very good. Problem area is updating the pars which have long since been abandoned Boxcar. However if u have a good set of them the program allows you to enter them.

No biggie. I never used pars.

hope this helps
Richie

It did. I made up my mind about trying the software before ending this post.

Thanks, Shanta, for your reply.

Boxcar

[shanta]

Huh? That's not nice news. Then who supports it? Anyone?



Well, heck...that's exactly what I used to do. Look for horses the public tends to kick out. (At this point, my inboard 'puter might be as good as their software. :) )

But the software uses Beyers!? I thought DRF had the exclusive with those figs? (I think I read on their site that they use data from Equibase.) This is more bad news. I can't stand BSFs! They stink for evaluting form cycles.



More bad news. I can't use what I have an abundance of. :bang:



No biggie. I never used pars.



It did. I made up my mind about trying the software before ending this post.

Thanks, Shanta, for your reply.

Boxcar


Hi Box,

you can still access the download files thru Post Time. They keep that availalbe for the users.

ok the Beyers do NOT come in the program. You are asked to input the horse's last 3 race speed figures. It is SUGGESTED you use Beyers as they are most popular BUT u can input any form of figs u want.

Richie

[boxcar]

Hi Box,

you can still access the download files thru Post Time. They keep that availalbe for the users.

ok the Beyers do NOT come in the program. You are asked to input the horse's last 3 race speed figures. It is SUGGESTED you use Beyers as they are most popular BUT u can input any form of figs u want.

Richie

Wait a minute! Stop the music! You pay the big bucks they're asking for the sofware, plus 12 bits a pop for the files, and the user has to manually input the figs? Don't tell me the file doesn't come with figs!?

For this kind of money, I'd expect the software to darn near cook my breakfast. (And I like my eggs over soft, please.) :bang:

Boxcar

[GaryG]

Has a selector that picks pacelines, an accupressure screen telling u if u should favor early or lateHey Richie, is this anything like accupuncture??

[shanta]

Hey Richie, is this anything like accupuncture??
Gary,

when the accupressure is wrong and the race goes the other way yea it does feel like u are getting a "stick" right in your gut!

very similar feeling. PAIN :eek:

Richie :)

[kingfin66]

May we plase clarify something. The way I'm reading these posts is that somebody asked about The Master Handicapper (TMH), then thebeacondeacon recommended to the inquisitor that they get The Master Magician (TMM) instead. Boxcar then asked about using TMM in response to 'beacon's post. Then Richie (shanta) replied as though the question was about TMH.

So I guess my question to Boxcar is, were you asking about TMH or TMM? If you were asking about the much older program, THM, then everthing Richie wrote is (I think) correct. If, on the other hand, your question was regarding TMM, then let me answer it for you.

Learning Curve - There definitely is one, although reading Handicapping Magic is a good start. Using the software is very simple. It gives you a pace scenaria for the race, tells you the Fulcrum (see other thread about that), provides running styles for the horses, etc. As always, it is interpreting and using the data that is important. Fortunately, you have already shown some keen insight by noting that the computer being supported by your neck is a key component to handicapping.

Files - TMM runs on the same ITS files that you are familar with. To be hones with you, I don't really know what single file, c-d (comma delimited?) means. The file extension used is .DAT. And regarding the old HD past perfornace software; it still works as does the new one. Please note, there is absolutely no manual input with TMM.

TMM does not involve speed ratings or pars. As for the Post Time Daily past peformances, DRF pulled the plug on their data several years ago, and they now receive data from Equibase. As such, there are no BSF's. TMM uses different ratings.

Finally, see a PM from me for a little more info.

[ratpack]

I don't know where or how you are planning to use the software but one of the reasons I had to give up on using the TMM is that I was just taking the Sheets to the track with me and I could not adjust for last scratches.

This software if very dependent on late changes and scratches so you really need to be able to work at home or take a notebook computer to the track or simulcasting.

[thebeacondeacon]

Deacon, I realize that what I'm about to ask is aking to asking, "how high is up?", but nonetheless I'd like your opinion, since you must use this software. What kind of learning curve would there be for an average Joe Blow like myself?

Also, are there special files that must dl'd or can their standard single format c-d files that are viewable in the now-defunct Handicapper's Daily Sofware be used? If special files, what's the cost per file? I'm just wonderin' if I'd be able to use my old ITS files for testing purposes, of which I have an abundance.

Thanks,
Boxcar

Well, Boxcar, given your professional horse racing background and encyclopedic contributions to the knowledgebase of handicapping in this forum, you are quite modest in describing yourself as an "average Joe Blow".

Nonetheless, it is important that you not shortchange yourself in learning TMM. I'm not talking about training, here, but real education. When you spend some time with TMM, you will come to appreciate the genius that went into it, but in order to do so, you need to be patient with yourself. Listen to the tapes and read the seminar materials over and over again. It doesn't hurt, either, to practice a single technique, like identifying and classifying reversal horses, completely out of context for an extended period of time.

The TMM software and the seminar materials are a total package, the latter being like conceptual and applied upgrades. TMM is very powerful, and you have to respect what it can contribute to your game, by giving yourself time to absorb it deeply and assimilate it into your own mental framework. To run with it too quickly will leave you on a plane of superficiality from which you will not recover. You can look at the series of posts this last weekend on the Yahoo forum for Handicapping Magic to see what I am talking about.

I can share with you some of my experiences with TMM, which I have been using for about three years now, and perhaps you can abstract its suitability for yourself.

First of all, the combination of the speed (PBS) rating, final fraction (PPF), and ValueTech odds formulation give an extraordinarily accurate insight into races to play and races to pass. Before he died, Eric Langjahr created an unprecedented blend of public expectation, the fit of horses within a given pace model, and his own unparalleled programming genius into two odds lines which, when compared with the morning line and/or final odds, reveal the payoff potentials of any race.

When you exclude unplayable races, either high ratings-low odds combinations, too much uncertainty with respect to too many first time starters, first time turf, foreign horses making their first start, too much smoothness in the preferred rating for the race (PBS or PPF), and a few other decision points, you are left with a very pure distillation of races that are worthy of your attention. The software combined with the TMM Mastery Seminar and the Quantum Leap Seminar materials will give you the complete picture of this selection process, and I am sure that you will grasp what is going on immediately. But again, practice is key.

When it comes down to analizing the races that are you will seriously handicap, you will find some parallels between your angle-hunt method of analysis and Michael Pizzolla's. The role of the fulcrum horse, tandem reversal horses, horses' running styles that fit the pace scenario, returning race patterns after a layoff -- these are key patterns that Michael looks for. They are not quite as numerous as the ones that you and Ray Taulbot adhere to, but I would think that the two sets of angles are compatible in finding wagering value. Michael presented simplified and updated versions of the "A", "B" and a couple other Taulbot angles at last October's seminar. So, I would say you would feel comfortable applying your approach within the TMM handicapping context.

It's too easy to make too much of the PBS and PPF ratings, in and of themselves, and to stress them for predictability. They are, after all, only 1/7th of the total handicapping picture and have to be applied in the context of each entrant's form, class, pace scenario fit, what's going on at the track, value, and contributing angles. This is true with respect to both the past performance lines that are chosen to contribute the numbers and to their role in determining betting value.

In my opinion, the palette that TMM gives the turf speculator for finding value is its strength. Obviously, it is not a "black box" for either favorites or longshots, nor does it overwhelm you with a lot of facts, numbers, and irrelevant material that obscure the real issues in the race. I am sure that you will find your own unique way to effectively use TMM, as I have.

You are correct that it uses the ITS, now PTS, data files. You still need your Handicapper's Daily or Post Time Daily to extract and export the race, horse, and past performance information for TMM to use. Your old files will be perfect for practice.

TMM is one of the truly excellent contributions to the body of racing information, and I recommend it without reservation.

Finally, I have no experience with TMH, the software to which Shanta refers. However, I believe that "The Master Key to Handicapping", an instructional package that loosely referred to TMH, is a wonderful adjunct, if not prerequisite to TMM, for it will give you the full flavor of the Langjahr-Pizzolla approach to value betting.

[shanta]

[QUOTE=kingfin66]May we plase clarify something. The way I'm reading these posts is that somebody asked about The Master Handicapper (TMH), then thebeacondeacon recommended to the inquisitor that they get The Master Magician (TMM) instead. Boxcar then asked about using TMM in response to 'beacon's post. Then Richie (shanta) replied as though the question was about TMH.

Ooh shoot. Michael I am reading the posts and you are right. My bad Boxcar as I am describing a much older software man.

I am very lucky some days that my head is attached to the rest of me as I would probably lose it in the shuffle.

Richie

[kingfin66]

The TMM software and the seminar materials are a total package, the latter being like conceptual and applied upgrades. TMM is very powerful, and you have to respect what it can contribute to your game, by giving yourself time to absorb it deeply and assimilate it into your own mental framework. To run with it too quickly will leave you on a plane of superficiality from which you will not recover. You can look at the series of posts this last weekend on the Yahoo forum for Handicapping Magic to see what I am talking about.


Well, given that I probably made most, if not all, of the posts that you are referring to, please enlighten me about your meaning. Plane of superficiality? It is very, very difficult to post in detail all of the things being processed by your mind about a horse race. Time is also a factor. If you believe that this is superficial then so be it.

[boxcar]

KingFish, and Beacon, thank you very much for your insightful, in-depth replies.
This new information sheds a different light on things. Yes, I suppose I was referring to TMM, not TMH.

If I were to take this software for a "test drive", I would prefer reading the instrcutions, tips, etc., as opposed to listening to tapes or even watching videos. I absorb things a lot better and faster by reading, providing the material is well written, of course.

Again, thanks to both of you gents for your thoughtful and thought-provoking replies.

Regards,
Boxcar

[wes]

BY the time you reach the learning curve, the horses have past that point in most computer generated programs.


wes

[turfbar]

To all
I use both programs ,both have thier own specialties, to me TMH is genius
although the program is between 14 or 15 years old and I use it pretty much
each day ,haven't touched the pars in that time (since purchase 1992)and they work fine there is no need to upgrade pars but that is a whole other ball of wax,never attended a TMH seminar and I do regret that because I did learn by expierence which took some time , if someone held a gun to my head and said choose betweem TMH or Master Magician , no hesitation The Master Handicapper.

P.S. I also own a copy of MPH


Turfbar

[Wickel]

Does Post Time Daily, or anyone else for that matter, sell the Master Magician tapes separately from the software? Is anyone aware if the tapes have ever been offered on e-bay? Thanks.

[sjmeola]

I also have been using nothing but these two programs since 1992

There are pro's and con's to both programs..

Knowing Shanta well (Richie) he also knows both these programs well (hey pal)


I'LL start with the no longer supported TMH which I always said that there was nothing better on the planet at getting high priced winners. I still beleive that to this day and saying that I havent used tmh in about 3 years.

TMH (the master handicapper) was far ahead of its time and does many things beautifully and elegantly.

pro's
----------
Good record keeping tools able to type in bets and returns after all races always showing you your overall profit or loss at any track,surface or distance.

type in the winner and all modeling is done for you showing your strengths in any catagory (early late or total energy) including but not limited to specific tracks and distances.. this is very helpful as one might have a great return in routes but doing poorly in sprints, valualble info in a few seconds time..

acurate feet per second numbers for all pacelines all adjusted autoamtically.
the program has an amazing ability at predict when a dirt horse may like the grass and most of these are big priced winners..

A wonderful oddline which one can bet off based on the pacelines selected.

Pars are old but I also updated them using the standard 10k claiming par which seem to work just fine..

the expected line is a concept wich is greatly underused in turf speculation.
It is a tool that handicaps the public and tells you thru whatever speedratings you use (beyer or equibase or somethig else) and current form and class factors to try to predict how the public wil bet the race, thus telling you tru overlays vs bogus ones.. as Pizzolla always said some of the worst bets in racing are horses that the public should like and are taking no action on the toteboard and look great on all our readout and numbers...

The expert selector selects all pacelines at a keystroke giving you a valuable consistent judgmental base.. there are pro's and cons to this vs selecting your own pacelines wich I will not get into here...

Cons to TMH
-----------------
I honestly cant think of many but since I no longer use tmh and use TMM exclusivly there must be some reason or I still would be using it..

ONE big one which I always struggled with is the acupressure technogly(otherwise known as the matchup) and using that as a basis for how you are gonna bet the race(being early late or total energy)

the program gives you betting lines and pace numbers for all 3 and the acupressure is the tool to determine how to bet.
The frustration that i have had is that far too many races do nut run the way the acupressure says thus making the whole anylsis useless. I do not chalk this up as a flaw to the technology but a mere fact of life and racing.
Far too many times did I bet a race one way (lets say early line) and ny top late horse rolls home and pays 55 dollars an im ripping up m tickets. so picking the right betting line always opend the race to too many contenders so I call that a negative..

The ideal way to use tmh is to take the time to go thru all the horses form cycle window in a given race and pick apropiate pacelines thus givin the best acurate specualtion of the race. When this is done I feel it is second to none.The Con is it is not friendly to multi tracking and simulcasting many races in a short time unless you have time before the races to do your paceline work..

Summary
--------------------------
The fact that the program is no longer supported but the files are still available still make it a viable deadly program in the handicpping software dept.however I imagine only a few hundred at the most still use this program which may mean the plug to these files could be pulled at any time. I been waiting for this to happen for years now and it hasnt so kudo's to pizzolla for that.


In the next note I will explain the pro's and cons to the magicain(what I use now and why)

I have been with the pizzolla group since its inception even as far back as doing tpr numbers on a pocket sharp handheld which i purchased from dick schmidt back around 1991 (IT still works to this day)

been to no more than 4 of the handicappers networks seminars all on the east coast...

Sam Sjmeola@aol.com

[shanta]

Sammy!

Hey how are you? You have forgotten more than I will ever know with TMH. You are the best I have ever seen with that software. Mark a close 2nd :)

I miss seeing you since your move out west man. I mean that.

Sammy on a personal note I sent you an email bout a week ago regarding a family issue with you. I hope you received it ok?

You are in my prayers bro.

PLease lemme know whenever u make the trip back here. I will take a ride out to Meadowlands to see ya ok?

Take care of yourself Sam
Richie

[JimL]

Sam, what a well thought out thorough review. Looking forward to your thoughts and usage of TMM. JimL

[andicap]

Sam,
where the hell did you move to?

Yep, nobody knows Pizzolla's software like Sammy. We used to have long talks about its principles back when I was a bit more ignorant about pace.

andy

[sjmeola]

Hey Andy !

Got Married and moved to Colorado springs (beautiful here but not much of a horsey kind of place so all handicapping and betting is done from home..

Good to see you are still here !

I'll email you soon with contact info !

SaM

[andicap]

Can the fulcrum figure tell you something about the pace of the race?

I was fooling around looking at a race last night that had very little early pace and the fulcrum was extremely low. Logical but is it so?

Does a low fulcrum number indicate (nothing's 100% of course) that the pace should be slower than normal?

[sjmeola]

Hey Andy !

The Fulcrum is not intended to predict the pace of the race tho it does do just that far too often.

Thu fulcrum if set properly, is the slowest possible pace the race can go.


For Example lets say we set a fulcrum pace at 45.3 at the second call.
And it is ok to add a tick or 2 to the fulcrum so a 45.3 could be adjusted to 45.4 or 46 tho staying rigid with the 45.3 is not wrong.

then we look at all the horses to see how they fair in races at or around 45.3

if we find horses that run up the track on more than one occasion, against paces of 46 or slower, they are not to be consisdered for win possiblities, regardless of numbers and ratings. These horses have proven not to be able to compete against the paces that they will likely face today. What would be aceptable of being able to compete at or around the fulcrum would be 3 lengths or less if my memory serves me right..


Talk to you soon !

Sam

[andicap]

Thanks, Sam --- could you use adjusted pace/speed figures from a program to compute the fulcrum? As long as you keep the same distance comparisons so the adjustments are more accurate. My problem with the fulcrum as Pizzolla used it was how it failed to figure in track-track differences since a 45.2 pace at Belmont for 6f is good, but at Calder it's sensational.

I was just wondering, even tho the fulcrum doesn't predict the pace of the race, that if the fulcrum was set unusually low did it mean a weak pace scenario, either:
a) lots of cheap spead who can't finish within the 4 lengths Pizzolla set to qualify as a fulcrum race or
b) a few early types but with lower than average pace figures?

Interesting is that if a low fulcrum was due to lots of cheap speed, it would favor a closer since the speed would likely die being cheap and slow -- faders.

But if the low fulcrum was a result of lower pace figures on a couple of early horses than it would favor an early speed horse because the few early horses in the race would set a slower pace, not be pressed and more likely to hang on.

[kingfin66]

People always seem to want to make it more, and much more complicated, than it is. From page 60 of Handicapping Magic, "Very simply put, the Fulcrum Pace is a conservative estimate of what second call pace the horses in today's race must run against to compete successfully."

That's all it is.

[hracingplyr]

just got michaels picks for the preakness in a letter he sends out, the guy is a trip to say the least. i think he could sell snow cones to eskimos. he loves a race at pimlico tomorrow in the 9th race. he likes the 5 and 9 hes says they have colonel bradleys super 3rd quater of a race play, just out of curiosity what is the 3rd quater of a race?

[Tom]

Third fraction in :24 or less?

[Lasix1]

just got michaels picks for the preakness in a letter he sends out, the guy is a trip to say the least. i think he could sell snow cones to eskimos. he loves a race at pimlico tomorrow in the 9th race. he likes the 5 and 9 hes says they have colonel bradleys super 3rd quater of a race play, just out of curiosity what is the 3rd quater of a race?
The 9th race at Pimlico on Saturday has a 7-horse field. There is no 9-horse. Could you be thinking about a different race?

[banacek]

The 9th race at Pimlico on Saturday has a 7-horse field. There is no 9-horse. Could you be thinking about a different race?

I got the same email. Michael likes 7 and 5.

[Lasix1]

I got the same email. Michael likes 7 and 5.
Ah, 7 and 5. Thank you.

[acorn54]

i think col. bradley had an angle that bet any horse that ran last quarter in 24 seconds or less.
acorn

[cato]

And to complete the discussion of that race, MP liked the 5 and the 7 as keys (and at high odds), primarily due to the fact that the race was "heaviily pressured" and felt that either the 5 or the 7 may close on the pace.

The 5 did in fact close, only to be beaten by 3/4 a length at odds of 24.8 - 1 and paid $14 + to place, plus a $78 exacta (the tri and super were not that exciting since favorites hit all of the other slots).

Cheers, Cato

[banacek]

One thing I liked about his email is that he said this about his Preakness horse:

"Take it easy on this race, and don’t be going crazy on this horse just because I’ve made a case for it. Please hear me on this—I don’t expect this horse to win, but I will bet it. Just another bet. I’ll treat it as another win, or loss, and go on."

A nice change from the "This horse can't lose - all systems are go!" types of stuff the selection sellers usually give us.

[hracingplyr]

just got pizzollas follow up to the preakness. this guy is the biggest red boarder on the planet, he tells us to use the 5 and 7 in the 9th at pimlico in his sat preakness letter, but in the follow up he tells us how he had the exaxta, funny don't remember him telling us the exaxta to play in that race, but he had it. then he goes on to tell us how he hit a nice exacta and tri and lad sat, funny don't remember him giving this out in the preakness letter, but hey he had it. as i said before this guy is a real trip.

[thebeacondeacon]

just got pizzollas follow up to the preakness. this guy is the biggest red boarder on the planet, he tells us to use the 5 and 7 in the 9th at pimlico in his sat preakness letter, but in the follow up he tells us how he had the exaxta, funny don't remember him telling us the exaxta to play in that race, but he had it. then he goes on to tell us how he hit a nice exacta and tri and lad sat, funny don't remember him giving this out in the preakness letter, but hey he had it. as i said before this guy is a real trip.

Does the IRS make you fill out a W2-G, when you red board a race?

I've seen a lot of those, over the years, with Pizzolla's name on them.

Do you think he's gotten all the racebooks in Las Vegas to buy into his trip and issue forgeries for him?

Get real!


thebeacondeacon

[hracingplyr]

and when he finally does cash he is probably breaking even

[thebeacondeacon]

and when he finally does cash he is probably breaking even

I sincerely hope that you are doing at least as well.

thebeacondeacon

[Tom]

What he has done in the past is not at issue here - what he mailed out to people - I assume he SOLD the picks?- and then to claim an exacta not given out, is, well, very TVGish!

[banacek]

What he has done in the past is not at issue here - what he mailed out to people - I assume he SOLD the picks?- and then to claim an exacta not given out, is, well, very TVGish!

Actually, it is a free newsletter.

[Tom]

Actually, it is a free newsletter.

Well, then, you got your money's worth! :lol:

[ratpack]

Not to be his apologist but when you read his book and listen to his tapes you realize that this guy bets lots of $$$ per race and lots of combinations when he has the right odds horses going for him.

[The Judge]

He can't make you a book nor go to a seminar, and yet you don't write a book or give a seminar . I know some do but not many and yet we run each other drown . Why ?

[The Judge]

Should be in there somewhere but you get the point.

[Tom]

I think a valid point was made - he sent out picks before the races, came back claiming a win not mentioed - that's not running down, that's a valid question. Can you show where he mentioned the win before the race was run? That would put an end to it. They did this on TVG a while ago - it stinks.

[Blackgold]

I never took a whole super pool until I started studying his stuff.

And I've hit many 4 fig supers and tris. . . even a $700 quinella.

Didn't need a folder for w2g's until I started following Piz.

Good luck!

[mikeb]

i think col. bradley had an angle that bet any horse that ran last quarter in 24 seconds or less.
acorn

Acorn,that's right last quarter in .24 or less,he also added a 3 race maximum follow ,or if the horse won ,which ever came first.
The Col was WAY AHEAD of his time.

hwnn.

[banacek]

I've never bought anything from Michael (except I have read his book). Have thought about the ValueTech, though. Is his money back guarantee reliable? Has anyone here bought something from him, not been pleased and sent it back and had any trouble getting their money back?

[Tom]

I'm a satisfied customer - bought TMM, TEH back in the day (still think that is one hell of a program the way it displayed a race), his book, and his own or Sartin presentations - no complaints here, still use many of his ideas.Went to Philly for a seminar - very happy wtih the outcome - paid for the trip several times over at the track outing.

[kingfin66]

just got michaels picks for the preakness in a letter he sends out, the guy is a trip to say the least. i think he could sell snow cones to eskimos. he loves a race at pimlico tomorrow in the 9th race. he likes the 5 and 9 hes says they have colonel bradleys super 3rd quater of a race play, just out of curiosity what is the 3rd quater of a race?

You know, sarcasm has it's place in the world, but it really makes no sense at all to attempt it unless you know (a) how to read, (b) how to write, and most importantly (c) how to think. You have demonstrated that you lack in all three of these important areas.

[kingfin66]

I think a valid point was made - he sent out picks before the races, came back claiming a win not mentioed - that's not running down, that's a valid question. Can you show where he mentioned the win before the race was run? That would put an end to it. They did this on TVG a while ago - it stinks.

You know Tom, I like you but being the red board police doesn't really suit you. Heck, there are lots of folks that red board here in one way or another. Your buddy, Justralph, has recently posted in this vain. Just to be clear, my point isn't to single anybody out, it's just to cite an example that this type of thing does go on. Tom, as somebody that has attended one of Michael's seminars, and been a satisfied customer, you know that he prefers to make his selections live whenever possible.

[kingfin66]

I've never bought anything from Michael (except I have read his book). Have thought about the ValueTech, though. Is his money back guarantee reliable? Has anyone here bought something from him, not been pleased and sent it back and had any trouble getting their money back?

Banacek, ValueTech is a module that goes with TMM. It's debatable whether or not you need it per se.

[kingfin66]

just got pizzollas follow up to the preakness. this guy is the biggest red boarder on the planet, he tells us to use the 5 and 7 in the 9th at pimlico in his sat preakness letter, but in the follow up he tells us how he had the exaxta, funny don't remember him telling us the exaxta to play in that race, but he had it. then he goes on to tell us how he hit a nice exacta and tri and lad sat, funny don't remember him giving this out in the preakness letter, but hey he had it. as i said before this guy is a real trip.

Next time, have him walk you through the steps and write down every single bet. I think Michael's biggest mistake is not so much writing about winners that he didn't call in advance, but in assuming that everybody that read's his rant is somewhat intelligent. Is it really too much for you to believe that a handicapper who can get a 25/1 shot into the place position would not be able to make money by making this type of call? Yeah, MP is tripping alright. Tripping over guys like you slumped around Vegas racebooks. :lol:

[kingfin66]

and when he finally does cash he is probably breaking even

It just goes on and on doesn't it?

[Tom]

You know Tom, I like you but being the red board police doesn't really suit you. Heck, there are lots of folks that red board here in one way or another. Your buddy, Justralph, has recently posted in this vain. Just to be clear, my point isn't to single anybody out, it's just to cite an example that this type of thing does go on. Tom, as somebody that has attended one of Michael's seminars, and been a satisfied customer, you know that he prefers to make his selections live whenever possible.

From what I gathered from the post was that he gave out a certain exacta, but later claimed to have had another NOT talked about. In that set of circumastances, it sucs. How you tell someone one thing, then another after the fact. I don't know how he phrased, but it sounded like he just took credit for the exacta. If he is going to make libe slection, he probably should not give out early one with out some cavets. Todd Shrupp did that oin TVG and caused a lot of flack.
I still think the point made was valid, but a few were jumping in like he was calling Mikey a child molester.
I think claiming a winner not given out previously is low class - not saying Mikey is low class, just the action. If you go on record with picks, stay on record with them, or make if clear - "I changed my pick due to the odss, and the late rains, and the way the early races were running" or something like that.
Waving winners around after the fact is cheap.

[Tom]

king...I do respect Mikey - don't get me wrong.

[ryesteve]

Heck, there are lots of folks that red board here in one way or another.
As far as I can tell, the folks redboarding around here aren't doing so in an attempt to stir up business for their books, software and seminars. I'm not on the mailing list that started this conversation, so I don't know what was said, and I certainly don't have a vested interest one way or the other, but as an observer, it really looks odd to see the followers get all defensive without actually addressing the specific issue.

[kingfin66]

...and Pizzolla's rant wasn't done for the purpose of stirring of business. If people wanted to receive the analysis, they would have had to register for it through Post Time Daily. He did not spam Internet forums, nor did he send out spam e-mails. You said that you didn't read what he sent out. If you had read it you would know that it was devoid of sales pitches or touting of any kind. At least you admit that you haven't read it, although I question how that would qualify you to lend any response.

The person who called Pizzolla a red boarder did not distinquish between those on this site vs. those who do it to "stir up business." The only reason that I mentioned the people on this site is to make the point that if you are going to call one person a red boarder, then call everyone out equally. In fact, there is a person on this site who named a thread "Red Board Alert" or something to that effect. Should that person be given a pass just because they alerted us?

Defensive? Yes, I suppose I am a little bit defensive. You see, there is a real person behind that written material. And I happen to think that person is a pretty nice guy who has helped me immensly with my handicapping. I will come to his defense when I believe that it is appropriate to do so, not that he necessarily wants or needs me to.

[ryesteve]

At least you admit that you haven't read it, although I question how that would qualify you to lend any response.
My response was to ask you people to respond to the issue that was raised, which is a completely "qualified" response from someone who did not read the mailer. If I'd read it, I'd obviously know for myself whether or not he pulled an about-face, and I wouldn't need to be asking you people, would I?

[thebeacondeacon]

I think a valid point was made - he sent out picks before the races, came back claiming a win not mentioed - that's not running down, that's a valid question. Can you show where he mentioned the win before the race was run? That would put an end to it. They did this on TVG a while ago - it stinks.

I think that this position, taken by Tom, started the current argument.

Michael Pizzolla's "Preakness Rant" was devoted to the Pimlico card and nothing else. Whether he was looking at Belmont or was onto the LAD maiden race when he wrote the Preakness analysis or not, I don't see its relevance or any obligation on Pizzolla's part to offer it to the readers, given the scope of the subject matter.

I think his discussion in the post-Preakness mailing was to point out the ups and downs that we all go through in this game. In other words, Tom (and everybody else that is weighing in on this issue), you're making a big to do about nothing. Many of us have been around Michael when he has scored big, we have seen his signers, and we know he is for real. We have also had the benefit of his victory stories after the fact, both with and without signers. So, what is the big deal about his post-Preakness rant? In fact, we have all behaved this way, at one time or another.

Let's move on. If anything, TVG would greatly benefit from having Michael Pizzolla in its lineup.

thebeacondeacon

[Blackgold]

I think I've belonged to this board for about 3 years.

In that time I've witnessed many slammings of M.P.

Of course, he has not been singled out for critisicm. . so have the Ed Bain's of the world and his wife for gods sakes. . . what ever. . who ever.

I would never dream of speaking on behalf of M.P.

But if I did. . .I would borrow a line from Eddie Murphy that he used in his response to critics and that was;

"Shut Up Mother F-er, or I'll crush you with my wallet!"

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm interested in your feelings as to why you think people should not be voicing criticism of public figures in the world of handicapping? Is there some special reason why people such as Pizzolla, Bain, Beyer, etc. should be off limits?

I hate it as much as the next guy when someone gets repeatedly pounded, and I step in when I think enough is enough.

With that said, criticism has its place, especially amongst those whose aim it is to have us part with our hard earned dollars.

[Blackgold]

Nice to hear from ya PA.

Fact based criticism not only is constructive, but it's that which makes a market. . . i.e., one thinks the stock is going up and another thinks it's going down and there in lies opportunity.

But as you know, many poster's rants are not based in facts and it is not limited to your fine site as it happens on message boards pertaining to stocks. . blackjack. . . you name it.

Again, there is opportunity in that. . . the immature that never seemed to quite get out of high school are also lurking in the Internet poker rooms. . . those that saw the movie, but never read the book. Again, opportunity.

Thanks again PA for having this fine site and I hope you don't often have to take your hands off the wheel of the bus to go back and settle some nonsense between children.

[steve199]

Can't believe no TTM user is not talking about May 3 at Churchhill Race 1 and 3. Had the exacta and tri in both. Been using the software for 5 years and you could not buy it from me if it was the last copy. Race 1 Exacta $1057.40 Tri $5962.00
Race 3 Exacta $889.80 Tri $4430.20 Value baby!!!

[headhawg]

Wow. Another one post poster. Thanks for the redboard, but we have enough of that here.

There's a whole big Selections section for you to post your TMM picks -- BEFORE the race is actually run. See how that works out for ya!

[Tom]

And....STEVE! :eek:

[steve199]

Like I said just joined today. Can't help it if you don't like the truth. If you owned the program you could had it too. Just sayin the program works and works well. Have proof from IRS forms and deposit from Youbet. If you owned the program run race 1 & 3 and see what it says. That's all. If you own the program and did not bet it then you need to ask for your money back because you lack knowledge and will not get it till the light bulbs go off.

[Tom]

Some lights are going off sooner than others! :lol:

[socantra]

just got pizzollas follow up to the preakness. this guy is the biggest red boarder on the planet, he tells us to use the 5 and 7 in the 9th at pimlico in his sat preakness letter, but in the follow up he tells us how he had the exaxta, funny don't remember him telling us the exaxta to play in that race, but he had it. then he goes on to tell us how he hit a nice exacta and tri and lad sat, funny don't remember him giving this out in the preakness letter, but hey he had it. as i said before this guy is a real trip.

This whole discussion is just plain silly. I don't use Pizzolla's software, and am not an acolyte, but I did read the two newsletters in question, which were FREE and part of his Triple Crown Rant series. Here's what he said about the 9th at Pimlico on Preakness Day:

"But there is one race on the Preakness undercard that is the kind of race I love.

Mainly because it took me about 97 seconds to handicap it.

Here�s the scoop.

Ninth race at Pimlico. Heavy Pressure 6 furlong race. One S horse named by TMM�the 7, Gold Cluster. Looking at the Master Magician Position Pointer, the 7 is a clear closer, as is the 5 Celtic Innis.

They are 10-1 and 15-1 morning line. I then opened Dan Serra�s program, The Professional Handicapper, because I wanted look quickly to see if there was anything else interesting.

Well there is.

The 7 is a Reversal Winner. And the Reverser? The 5.

And there�s more.

They both have Danny�s classic �Colonel Bradley� Professional Super Play, which is based on the 3rd fraction of the horse�s last race.

97 Seconds.

Heavy Pressure.

Two closers.

10-1, 15-1.

Reversers.

I�m sure there will be other opportunities in the undercards, but this is a gift."


Okay, here's what he said after the race;

"The one and only purpose of doing this is to demonstrate with real live not-yet-run races how I use the techniques of Handicapping Magic and the TMM software.

Also to show you how I go about picking the races on which I want to focus.

A perfect example was the 9th race at Pimlico on Preakness Day. Did it work out the way I planned? Almost. The 5 horse, the Reverser, came storming down the stretch and barely missed at 25-1. The Reversal Winner
never really fired, but still managed to only run about 4 lengths total from being in the money. If that exacta comes in, well, let�s just say I do quite nicely.

The 4 was a very obvious horse from TMM, and the $74.20 exacta in a 7 horse field wasn�t hard to take."

You're right. He didn't take you by the hand and tell you to include the 9/5 favorite in your longshot exacta, but if you can't figure that out, you might be better served by a seeing eye dog than racing analysis. What made the exacta pay $74.20 was the 25/1 #5 horse that he did tell you about.

For your future information, it is not uncommon for handicappers to include favorites in their longshot exactas as saver bets.

socantra...

[Murph]

That feels alot like a tout-off to me. You don't suppose the exacta would have paid so nicely if the readers of the "free" selection letter were told Mike P was condsidering wheeling the favorite with these do you Soc? There is no free lunch being handed out to horse bettors, Mike knows this and puts the theory to practice. It's right there in black and white - all of you "free" readers should play these near hopless longshots in an exacta. "It is a gift." he writes. Then he makes sure you know he touted the "freebies" the very next day by telling us all how he really played his ticket.

I don't care for lemonade OR touts, no matter the price.
Murph

[socantra]

That feels alot like a tout-off to me. You don't suppose the exacta would have paid so nicely if the readers of the "free" selection letter were told Mike P was condsidering wheeling the favorite with these do you Soc? There is no free lunch being handed out to horse bettors, Mike knows this and puts the theory to practice. It's right there in black and white - all of you "free" readers should play these near hopless longshots in an exacta. "It is a gift." he writes. Then he makes sure you know he touted the "freebies" the very next day by telling us all how he really played his ticket.

I don't care for lemonade OR touts, no matter the price.
Murph
it doesn't really shock me, Murph, that the competition doesn't really care for Pizzolla. I played the race off of CJ's figs and found the 4 horse, Friendly Island to be rather a standout among the early runners, but to offer little value at 9/5. Pizzolla's comments made me take a closer look at the race and the 5 horse, did indeed look like a live closer coming into form at very good odds, so I included it in an exacta at very good odds. I didn't use the 7 horse because it looked like it had already peaked to me.

I wouldn't have played it had not the odds been generous and I doubt if Pizzolla would have either. The point is, I don't expect Mike Pizzolla to do all of my thinking for me in in his free newsletter, and, in this case, I found his information useful.

I do find it instructive to see how little value you in particular place on free information.

socantra...

[The Judge]

Have people gone MAD. This man sales handicapping data, programs, books and gives seminars for a "living" why would he poison the well for one race ? What it proves is that he will at least bet a race. What did he do win enough out of this one race to retire to the islands. I'm not sure but he probably already has that much money. Why don't some of you MP haters give your analysis of the race after the fact and see if you don't come up with the same analysis as MP did before the fact. Of course you have the 25-1 closer correct somewhere in your analysis.

While we are at it does anyone have any critisim of the " Handicapping Magic" book . No. What about the data from Posttime Daily, No. What about some of the work in the Pace Make the Race, books,No.

So whats the real problem.

[cj]

While we are at it does anyone have any critisim of the " Handicapping Magic" book . No. What about the data from Posttime Daily, No. What about some of the work in the Pace Make the Race, books,No.

So whats the real problem.

I have criticisms of the first two. I think you are going a bit overboard in the opposite direction.

This isn't to say I didn't enjoy the book. I liked a lot of things, hated a few, and took some useful information from it that I use today.

[The Judge]

That is if you care to tell if not I understand it may not be proper. But what I did get is that you felt the book was worth the money that it was a sincere effort by a serious person.

This is on to something a little different, I've spent 100-200 dollars on books on subjects that I know. I normally found something that sparked my thinking or did something good for me. It was sometimes only a page or less in the many hundreds of pages. This was money well spent. Doctors and Lawyers do this all the time and think nothing of it, it's information that they may "one day need".

I read handicapping books all the time I can't wait for the next one to come out. I go to used bookstores looking for old classics or books I never heard of, some from England. If I go to Las Vages my trip is not complete unless I go buy the Gamblers Book Store. Never left there without spending at least 200-300 dollars. I love this stuff not just setting at the trace or at a race book betting. I love to go to seminars I love the DRF semiars given in Vegas about every 2-3 years. This is the big tent.

[cj]

It isn't worth getting into what I don't like, because if I don't like something, I just disregard it and move on. I look for a few things I might think worth investigating, and go from there. I am like you, I'll read anything about the sport.

Sometimes, what I found interesting might turn out to be poor info, but maybe it leads me to something else. The Klein Bias Rating things are an example. I don't use them at all in the way Klein advocates, but it led me to something I do use every day now.

I'm sure I've read a few things I didn't get anything from, but I don't remember them offhand.

[Suff]

[QUOTE] The Reversal Winner
never really fired, but still managed to only run about 4 lengths total from being in the money. If that exacta comes in, well, let�s just say I do quite nicely.


........The above paragraph is PT Barnum material.

Never really fired. (that's a period after the small d)

[The Judge]

CJ by that did you mean that the art of crafting the best figure using the best adjusted times etc.etc. is downplayed as to its importance in winning money ,is going to far in the other direction?

[Tom]

What I want to know is how did CJ edit the Judge's post #74? :D

[socantra]

........The above paragraph is PT Barnum material.



What you call PT Barnum material is hardly uncommon in handicapping material. I've never heard anyone accuse Pizzolla of being a shrinking violet or of 'hiding his bushel under a basket',

The man is flamboyant and obviously has an ego the size of the Pacific ocean. Many of the good contrarians do. I think he is a little casual about good data, and his reference to horses as "pigs" turned me off so much that I could hardly read "Handicapping Magic" the first time through. I think his 'fulcrum pace' idea is overanalyzed to death.

He also has many good contrarian viewpoints, and when he "TOUT's" a race, he gives you analysis rather than selections. I didn't need his help to find the favorite. His analysis made me take a second look at the race and I profited because of it.

I don't buy selections, or use any of the Pizzolla products, but I will listen to and consider his opinion of a race, as I would that of any other handicapper I respect. Then I will make my own decision.

I'm wrong more often than right, as Pizzolla freely admits he is too. If I make a bad decision based in part upon his analysis, I'm not going to blame him for that decision. If he makes me take a second look at a race and I profit, I appreciate the help, but either way it was my decision.

socantra...

[cj]

I would have to say that finishing 4 lengths "out of the money" is a positive for the analysis is a definite stretch.

[The Judge]

What I really said drove a nail into this whole debate it was the "final answer" and now its lost to the ages. What can I say?

I assume some sort of computer mistake.

[Suff]

What you call PT Barnum material is hardly uncommon in handicapping material. I've never heard anyone accuse Pizzolla of being a shrinking violet or of 'hiding his bushel under a basket',

I agree. It catch's me wrong though. Not like a crime or anything. Just anattractive.

I think all Players who play at the track, or play out-loud on a message board like this, try and show some discrection when approaching winning and/or losing. Posters here can get chewed up playing the "if my aunt had balls , she'd be my uncle" rants when they lose. Simaltanousley, people that do back flips off a nice win can be equally unattractive.

I have a friend that is so poker faced, not only can't I tell who he bet while he watchs a race, after its over, I can't tell if he won or lost. I'm pretty vocal so he is a strange bird , to me. But I take your point.

The man is flamboyant and obviously has an ego the size of the Pacific ocean. Many of the good contrarians do

Don't we all huh. :ThmbUp: And thank God for that.,.. When my Self-esteem is in the toilet, my Ego carries me..



I think he is a little casual about good data, and his reference to horses as "pigs" turned me off .

You could'nt play with WINMANWIN then. Everything is PIG, BEAST, MULE, DONKEY, STIFF JOB, CRIPPLE....:lol: he's funny though.



socantra...[/QUOTE]

I just threw that post in there because it was a stretch as CJ says, and it is BIG wouilda , coulda shoulda. So I Hiccup'd when I read it.

No Big Deal. I don't know the man. Best of luck to him.

[Blackgold]

Who was it that said, "It Ain't Bragging If You Can Do It."

[The Judge]

If you read the rant and didn't play the race wouldn't you want to know what happened to the other long shot horse? I would, he ran out of the money and lost by only 4 lengths. If he hadn't posted that and this and this debate was going on someone would have asked "what happened to the other horse"?

[Tom]

All anyone had to do was look at the chart to find out.

[The Judge]

But why ?

[Vegas711]

Am I missing something here? I visited Posttimes web site, the selections were FREE so whats the problem? why is there any argument over what was included before or after?

[PaceAdvantage]

I assume some sort of computer mistake.

No, not a mistake. When Barbaro broke down and some of the loony bin let loose on this board, CJ offered to help me out in cases of obvious posting guideline violations, since he operates in a completely different timezone than I do....this allows all the bases to be covered in terms of moderation.

I took him up on the offer....but glancing at the clock, I now see there is going to be some overlap.....;)

[cj]

That was actually a mistake, I just hit edit instead of quote. I didn't actually edit anything in the post.

[The Judge]

That was just my attempt at a joke. What am I doing up this early?

[Tom]

Whew! I thought we had a take over going on!
"When PACE websites attack!"
:lol::lol::lol:

[The Judge]

Nothing flying under this radar!

[Wickel]

I think MP is one of the good guys in this sport. True, like many of you pointed out, his picks were free, but here is where he rattled some people, as I see it: He was dead set on these two longshots in the ninth at Pimlico on Preakness Day. No ifs and buts. He called it a "gift." Even I got excited. I, like many others, didn't really think it necessary to box these two with the favorite or second favorite. When you start doing this, you get into a lot of dough, at least for most players.

The MP comes back in his post-Preakness Day rant and says he nailed the exacta--which is great . . . for him. I can see others being upset because they played the so-called "gift" cold. And I can't see calling them dopes for not including the fave, or any other horses for that matter, because the dough adds up. To me, the whole "gift" thing made it sound like stone cold exacta. That's all.

[Wickel]

Oh, by the way. MP responded to the original criticism on this board with another e-mail rant. An "extra," so to speak. I haven't finished reading it, but so far he says he hates touts and doesn't like being referred to as one.

[socantra]

I think MP is one of the good guys in this sport. True, like many of you pointed out, his picks were free, but here is where he rattled some people, as I see it: He was dead set on these two longshots in the ninth at Pimlico on Preakness Day. No ifs and buts. He called it a "gift." Even I got excited. I, like many others, didn't really think it necessary to box these two with the favorite or second favorite. When you start doing this, you get into a lot of dough, at least for most players.

The MP comes back in his post-Preakness Day rant and says he nailed the exacta--which is great . . . for him. I can see others being upset because they played the so-called "gift" cold. And I can't see calling them dopes for not including the fave, or any other horses for that matter, because the dough adds up. To me, the whole "gift" thing made it sound like stone cold exacta. That's all.
I generally admire Mike Pizzolla''s handicapping skills, but there is no one this side of heaven who can GIVE you a "Stone Cold" longshot exacta. How could Pizzolla, or anyone else possibly KNOW that two long shots were going to run 1st and 2nd in that race AND which two they were?

In that race, like almost every other race run, the favorite had the best chance of any individual horse to be the winner. What Pizzolla meant by 'gift' was that with very little analysis he had seen two horses who he thought had a much better chance in the race than their odds indicated. At least that's what I thought he meant. If he actually meant that he was absolutely certain that the two longshots were going to run 1st and 2nd, then his ego is MUCH bigger than I thought and he is having visions of divinity.

As Dick Schmidt is so fond of saying, "NEVER let anyone else do your thinking for you."

socantra...

.

[The Judge]

I've stood behind some of the best handicappers in the nation not to see what they bet becacuse these were at seminars and for the most of them would show you their bets. I wanted to hear them call out their tickets to see if I could follow what they were doing and why. I've stood behind Andrew Beyer,Tom Brohamer,Dick Schmidt, Howard Sartin, Dick Mitchell, Mark Cramer, Michael Pizzola, James Quinn, Wm. L. Scott, Barry Meadow and I'm sure there are others.

It was pretty easy to follow most of the bets they were straight forward. Not so with Beyer , Pizzola and if I remember correctly Meadow. They construct complex tickets. Pizzola will always have winners that I won't he plays more combinations. They make sense to him. To play the game the way they play you need a very large bankroll and you must be willing to put that bankroll at risk again and again day in and day out.

At seminars Pizzola tells his bets in the mike he also says the races that wouldn't touch and wouldn't play. The racebook is set-up in the seminar room(these are large Las Vegas banquet size rooms) and yet every race many people are rooting in their horses races Pizzola isn't betting.

His big tir-fecta scores I played 2 horses to win. Hey it's my money not Pizzola's and I'm sure he wouldn't be offended if I bet my way.

[The Judge]

Pizzola use to bet two horses a race to win only now he doesn't . I very rarely will bet two horese a race to win and now I will take a stabb at a trifecta. I'm changing but it will be a long time before my ticket will match Pizzola's ticket even when he tells me what he is betting ,his bank roll is larger then mine.

[shanta]

I've stood behind some of the best handicappers in the nation not to see what they bet becacuse these were at seminars and for the most of them would show you their bets. I wanted to hear them call out their tickets to see if I could follow what they were doing and why. I've stood behind Andrew Beyer,Tom Brohamer,Dick Schmidt, Howard Sartin, Dick Mitchell, Mark Cramer, Michael Pizzola, James Quinn, Wm. L. Scott, Barry Meadow and I'm sure there are others.


Judge,
Have you ever seen Jim " The Hat" Bradshaw call out tickets? From what I understand he doesn't leave much to interpret.

Bets one horse to win in every race.
Bets one horse cold pick 3's. When there is a maiden race in the sequence he might get totally "famished" and use a second horse-lol

Richie

[Blackgold]

If you are going to seriously go after longshots, by their very nature they will finish ITM more than they win. . . or worse, finish out.

So if the Fav. is legit, you got to have some tickets using the Fav. The public is pretty smart, after all they do pick 33% winners. . . I don't.

Often hooking your longies with the Fav. on several tickets will merely get your money back out of the race and leave your bankroll intact for another punt another day when your lognies run 1 and 2 and even if the Fav. makes the tri, it's usually gonna pay more than it's true odds because the public, being the public, will have most of their tickets with the Fav. on top.

What MP probably meant by "gift" was, he found a heavy pressure race with only 2 closers which makes handicapping quick and easy. One longshot made 2nd and the other finished ahead of the ambulance. There was no great amount of time to be spent on class considerations, connections, track to track adjustments, etc. It was a simple race, the speed was likely to fall apart and there were two high priced closers. Enuff said.

Good luck!

[The Judge]

As soon as I posted I rememberd "Jim the Hat" what a nice man. During that time the big thing was "The Brohamer Model". Jim said he wanted to keep a "Brohamer Model" but his wife wouldn't let him . Also there was Marion Jones. I still remember what some of these people bet and the outcome not the horses but what the bet was. I don't know why its just one of those crazy things. To Jim it was all about the "matchup" and his was an expert at it he didn't need to keep a model.

[Tom]

Since he got the race down to one hrose every time, it was always rated 1-1-1-1-1 :D

[keenang]

Judge:

If I remember right wasn't Marion Jones was a Turf expert so to speak? That was a long time ago. (circa 1984) I met him at a seminar at the old Marinna casino which is now the MGM.

Good Luck

Geno

;)

[The Judge]

Exactly one of his favorite story was Jonh Henry and The Bart. "And Here comes John Henry". He would tell that race with so much feeling it made you think they were running right then and there.

[Lefty]

I have The Master Handicapper that I would be willing to sell. e-mail or pm me, if interested.

[jorge jaramillo]

HI LEFTY. May be i'm late on this but if you still have it please drop me a line.......thanks. yours Giorgio.

[Lefty]

jorge, just sent you a pm.

[Lefty]

Jorge, check your PM's and respond. Important.

[ratpack]

Does anyone know Mike's email address? His web sit only has everyone else's but his.

Thanks in advance.

chris/ratpack

[Lefty]

Michael@posttimedaily.com

[ratpack]

Michael@posttimedaily.com


Thanks,
Lefty

He is having a seminar in the spring and I need just about all that time to save up the money

[ddog]

I generally admire Mike Pizzolla''s handicapping skills, but there is no one this side of heaven who can GIVE you a "Stone Cold" longshot exacta. How could Pizzolla, or anyone else possibly KNOW that two long shots were going to run 1st and 2nd in that race AND which two they were?

In that race, like almost every other race run, the favorite had the best chance of any individual horse to be the winner. What Pizzolla meant by 'gift' was that with very little analysis he had seen two horses who he thought had a much better chance in the race than their odds indicated. At least that's what I thought he meant. If he actually meant that he was absolutely certain that the two longshots were going to run 1st and 2nd, then his ego is MUCH bigger than I thought and he is having visions of divinity.

As Dick Schmidt is so fond of saying, "NEVER let anyone else do your thinking for you."

socantra...

.

I don't know if it's divinty exactly, but you do need a heathy dose of 'it" to play for the big score.
Afterall , everyone says it can't be done and/or by the very nature of the play you are saying your opinion is better than 98% of the crowd in this race.

Sometimes when you hook up a 1K ex or 10K tri you do feel a little divine. :)