VP Chaney Breaking News

[Hammerhead]

AP says Dick Chaney plugs hunting partner in Texas :lol:

[46zilzal]

Harry Whittington, 78, was "alert and doing fine" after Cheney sprayed Whittington with shotgun pellets on Saturday at the Armstrong Ranch in south Texas, said property owner Katharine Armstrong.

[andicap]

There goes Cheney, spreading leaks all over again.

[Secretariat]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060212/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cheney_hunting_accident

Maybe Dick thought it was a terrorist sneaking up on him.

[rrpic6]

He must have recovered from whatever ailments he had when he got 5 deferments from using a gun for his country.

[kenwoodallpromos]

When they showed a photo of Cheney's victim, my wife said that was Bush. I told her Cheney wants to be Pres!

[Tom]

Practicing for 2008.....this time it's personal!

[kenwoodallpromos]

Why was the media 21 hours late reporting the story?

[Tom]

Why was the media 21 hours late reporting the story?

Chenney had them at gunpoint! :D

[Snag]

I heard the only problem Chaney will face was a ticket from the Game Warden.


Lawyer season doesn't start till March 1.

[falconridge]

As wildhare B. Bunny cautioned befuddled Elmer:

http://www.alexross.com/Vr005.jpg

"Stop; Hey!
Ya' gonna hoit someone
Wit' dat ol' shot gun,
Hey, what's up, Doc!?"

[OTM Al]

You knew someone would do this....

Dick Cheney's top 10 excuses for shooting fellow hunter Harry Whittington
Author unknown ...

10. Sick and tired of Whittington's "Hey, I'm having a heart attack" jokes

9. Pushed over edge by Dixie Chicks and Streisand blasting on pick-up truck stereo

8. Ongoing dispute over whether it's acceptable to torture quail before shooting them

7. Thought he saw Scooter Libby on other side of tree line

6. Bombed out of his gourd on Wild Turkey and Lone Star Beer

5. Companion's ill-advised decision to wear Moveon.org sweatshirt

4. Was trying to impress Jodie Foster

3. Whittington's repeated ribbing that Bush is actually the "real president"

2. Targeting scope on rifle made by Halliburton

And the number one excuse given by Dick Cheney for almost blowing away hunting companion Harry Whittington...

1. Because he's a wartime vice president, damn it

[Tom]

Chenney was hunting QUAIL?


Is Dan alright?:D

[lsbets]

The thing is, this is a lot more common than a lot of folks think, and reason #6 is usually the answer.

[ljb]

He was just sighting in his 28 gauge. He has a big hunting expedition planned for next weekend with Abramoff and Chertoff.

[Tom]

I heard he was going to go hunting in.....Dearborn! :eek:

[JustRalph]

I heard he was going to go hunting in.....Dearborn! :eek:

Look out Light! he is gunning for you................

[Lefty]

He had a hunting accident biut it won't compare to the demlibs shooting themselves in their collective foot, trying to politicize this. The lib press has already started.

[DJofSD]

We need more bi-partisan hunting trips.

[betchatoo]

The truth is he found Whittington was carrying a calculator, a protractor and a compass. You know, weapons of math instruction

[hcap]

Any quail hunters on board? Does this article make sense?

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0213-33.htm

[hcap]

Jon Stewart

On Monday night one of the show's correspondents, Rob Corddry, introduced as a "vice-presidential firearms mishap analyst," said that "according to the best intelligence available, there were quail hidden in the brush," and "everyone believed there were quail in the brush," and "while the quail turned out to be a 78-year-old man, even knowing that today, Mr. Cheney insists he would still have shot Mr. Whittington in the face."

[Big Bill]

It didn't take long for the creation of this to land in my inbox:

http://dickcheneyquailhunt.cf.huffingtonpost.com/

Big Bill

[JimL]

Just reported on Fox news that Mr Whittington, has had a heart attack. A pellet from the gun shot was carried by the blood stream to the heart. This is no longer a minor injury. JimL

[highnote]

The thing is, this is a lot more common than a lot of folks think, and reason #6 is usually the answer.

According to "thesmokinggun.com" Cheney has two prior DWI arrests.

Also, did you ever check out the prices on the 28-guage Perazzi shotgun he was using? Hell, I pay less for my cars than the cost of one of those.

[Valuist]

And all along, I thought Steve Tyler was singing "Janie's Got a Gun". It was really "Cheney's got a gun".

[Tom]

And all along, I thought Steve Tyler was singing "Janie's Got a Gun". It was really "Cheney's got a gun".

:lol: :lol:

[Tom]

http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/achenblog/2006/02/white_house_slo.html

Chenney is in historic company - Aaron was another VP who shot somebody.
And it was not released to the press any too quickly, either.

Libs take heart - if history repeats itself, Chenney, like Burr, just might be tired for treason eventually.

[Indulto]

Originally posted by Hcap:
Any quail hunters on board? Does this article make sense?http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0213-33.htm (http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0213-33.htm)

Hcap,

Fortunately, I was able to enjoy the humor in this thread before learning of Whittington’s heart attack. I suspect Mr. Ireland’s questions will prove to be musings that usually take place in a news vacuum, but at least now the answers will be pursued as they should be. My concern in this fiasco is not that a potential political or legal misstep occurred, but rather Dick Cheney’s physical and mental capacity to continue as the person to substitute for the President in the event an emergency.

Well-intended Republicans should share this concern.

[JustRalph]

but rather Dick Cheney’s physical and mental capacity to continue as the person to substitute for the President in the event an emergency. Well-intended Republicans should share this concern.

you are joking right? The guy had a hunting accident. That is all it is. How in the hell does that suddenly disqualify him from being Vice President? Truthfully, I would rather he was President.

Just because there was a screw up in a hunting party (and btw, some are saying the guy who got shot screwed up by walking into the line of fire) doesn't change who the guy is. Nor does it change his past experience and knowledge. It was a stupid accident. That is all it is. You are being brainwashed by the media hysteria around this thing. Damn shame the guy had a heart attack. I feel sorry for the guy. But, what the hell does it have to do with how Cheney would govern? I have heard it all now................

[hcap]

Whether it was a simple accident or the vp was "under the weather", the administration was not forthcomong as usual. Gotta be the most secretive flock since nixon. Should have been up front from the start

[highnote]

But, what the hell does it have to do with how Cheney would govern?


A little too "trigger-happy" maybe? :D

[chickenhead]

I just feel bad for Cheney and the guy he shot. Can you imagine shooting your buddy on accident? Terrible...especially as it's turning out to be serious.

I never held it against Bobby Knight when he shot someone, won't hold it against Cheney now. Won't go hunting with them either.

[lsbets]

Whether it was a simple accident or the vp was "under the weather", the administration was not forthcomong as usual. Gotta be the most secretive flock since nixon. Should have been up front from the start

Before claiming secretive and all that, I have one question regarding the release of the information:

When did the lawyer's family find out? At what point did they know, and when were they able to get underway to see him at the hospital?

To release the information before the family knows would be as wrong as it gets.

I have no clue when they did, and in the grand scheme of things, I don't think this means much. From what I have gathered, Cheney was calling the shots on releasing the info, and I would imagine that a lot of the delay had more to do with extreme embarrasment at shooting your buddy than any evil scheme to hide information.

[highnote]

This whole thing is pretty much a non-event. Unfortunately, for Dick, there are a million ways to spin it.

[hcap]

Ls,

That is true. But I would assume though they would have contacted the family quickly, and in plenty of time before they went public. The accident occured saturday-I think just before sundown. We the public didn't know till sunday 4.00 ish I would think they had plenty of time.

But remember it is the VP. Not an inconsequential lowly staffer.
No news is good news apparently guided the official release. If it came out immediately it would have been all over the sunday talk shows and the sunday papers.

I also don't thing there is much here other than how it was handled.
Political manuevering, and a peep under the sheets of the WH press machine.
I know you think bush is mucho popoular. The most recent polls show no bump from the SOTU. Mr 39% and his VP, MR 27% (guessing recent numbers) need every softening of hard knocks they can get.
But shot themselves in the foot instead.

[lsbets]

Hcap - I've seen it take 3 days to track down a guys mother to tell her her son was just killed in Iraq. Sometimes it takes a while. I am curious though, in all the talk about the delays, I haven't heard that question asked, and its the first thing I thought of. It seemed to me like the media was more upset that they weren't told right away than concerned about the guy who got shot.

[hcap]

Yeah that could happen. But a well known, well connected lawyer and rather generous contributer to the texas repubs. Kinda unlikely

The official word was that "Whittington, 78, was "alert and doing fine" What concern? So what's to question other than how come we didn't know earlier.

Not suprising. Of course now we know he suffered more serious wounds than originally mentioned. I believe they are leaving many pellets in Whittington. Not medically wise to remove. And the heart attack was due to a pellet lodged in his heart.

I suspect much of this was known earlier and the problem was how to PR juggle.

[Lefty]

The libs are so desperate now they think Cheney should have reported to the press corp before he got help for his friend. Once again, they're priorities way out of whack. Everything in the vice Prez's personal life doesn't have to be reported to the press the very second it happens. One stupid member of the press even asked if Cheney was going to resign. Libs, you embarass yourselves everytime you open your yaps or write dn something.
I just heard the guy is going to make it. Good news. Hope you libs agree.

[hcap]

Lefty it was not a problem for Whittington to get immediate car.
Cheney travels with a staff of medics and doctors. Helicopters are available.
As are ambulances.

Took 10 or so hours to get a dribble of info from your guys.
Reasonable libs are asking reasonable questions.

NO conspiracy YET :D :D

[DJofSD]

Oh, I think a reasonable amount of time would be the same as amount of time it took to produce those papers of Vince Foster's that Hillary had.

[Indulto]

JR,
When a man of Cheney’s age and medical history runs into/over somebody with a car, it should and does result in suspension of his driving privileges. I agree the hunting incident was a terrible accident, and a screw-up. It won’t change the past, but the future belongs to us all, and our kids deserve Cheney’s clearance from a panel of physicians just as mandatory physicals and immunization are required to confirm they are unlikely threats to the health of their classmates.

Lefty,
I am glad to hear that Whittington is improving. You embarrass yourself by suggesting that people you label as "Liberal" would react otherwise.

[chickenhead]

You're worried Cheney has cracked up over this? Never occured to me, I guess I would have to see something to make me suspect that first....I take it you would suggest the same thing if say his mother had died, or anything else stressful. A worrisome kind of precedent to demand I think.

[DJofSD]

I agree the hunting incident was a terrible accident, and a screw-up. It won’t change the past, but the future belongs to us all, and our kids deserve Cheney’s clearance from a panel of physicians just as mandatory physicals and immunization are required to confirm they are unlikely threats to the health of their classmates.

Are you kidding around here? What a croc.

That fact the guy got shot by the V.P. has nothing to do with Cheney's mental or physical abilities to serve. And it has not an iota to do with kid's immunization.

The guy got shot because he broke hunting protocol, excuse me, let me break it down for you folks, he broke the damn rules. He retrieved a bird and failed to let the party know he was rejoining the group.

The biggest "sin" is the V.P. didn't get a $7 hunting sticker.

[Sailwolf]

It is interesting that cheney broke the law by not having a hunting stamp.


There is some discussion on some web sites that the reason that the sheriff was not allow (turned away by the secret service to interview cheney that night because the group had a few (many) drinks

[DJofSD]

the group had a few (many) drinks

So he's guilty of impersonating a red neck.

[lsbets]

It is interesting that cheney broke the law by not having a hunting stamp.


There is some discussion on some web sites that the reason that the sheriff was not allow (turned away by the secret service to interview cheney that night because the group had a few (many) drinks

Three things about hunting with Texas I can say with certainty:

1) Drinking is common

2) Hunting without the right stamps is common

3) Getting peppered with bird shot is fairly common

[highnote]

Are you kidding around here? What a croc.

That fact the guy got shot by the V.P. has nothing to do with Cheney's mental or physical abilities to serve. And it has not an iota to do with kid's immunization.

The guy got shot because he broke hunting protocol, excuse me, let me break it down for you folks, he broke the damn rules. He retrieved a bird and failed to let the party know he was rejoining the group.

The biggest "sin" is the V.P. didn't get a $7 hunting sticker.


The articles I read put the ultimate blame on the hunter. He is responsible for pulling the trigger. Once the trigger is pulled, you can't take it back. Plus, he should have shot when the birds were higher in the air.

By the way, what do you do with the quail once you shoot it?

[Lefty]

Indulto, you gotta be kidding me. Just look at the way the libs have been overeacting over everything that happens in this adm. If the guy died they could really get their current witchhunt going. I hope i'm wrong, fear i'm not.
Don't you worry your little brain over my embarassment.

[chickenhead]

what do you do with the quail once you shoot it?

If you're balsy enough to walk out into the triangulated field of death and bend over to pick it up in front of your comprehensively refreshed, heavily armed buddies, you can take it home and eat it. :jump:

[Indulto]

Chickenhead,

I don't think Cheney "cracked-up" or has debilitating emotional problems. My concern is that, regardless of what is reported or attested to, the possibility exists that Cheney's heart and/or potential related problems, e.g., circulation, might have affected his vision, coordination, reaction time, perception, and/or judgement. I'd have raised the issue if it had been Lieberman, though probably not Gore or Edwards because of their age and absence of problematic medical histories. I sincerely hope the Vice-President is indeed capable of fulfilling his responsibilities, one of which is to allay any doubts to the contrary among his constituents.

[lsbets]

If you're balsy enough to walk out into the triangulated field of death and bend over to pick it up in front of your comprehensively refreshed, heavily armed buddies, you can take it home and eat it. :jump:

Or you send your dog to get it (you wanna see a Texan get really pissed - pepper his dog - that starts a fight!). Then you take it home and cook it. Grilling is the best option as far as I'm concerned.

[chickenhead]

I guess I see what you're saying, if what you fear is true it seems more like grounds to revoke a hunting or driving license rather than an office...but there are no grounds to presume it was anything other than what they said it was...a guy obscured by brush that got shot.

[highnote]

Or you send your dog to get it (you wanna see a Texan get really pissed - pepper his dog - that starts a fight!). Then you take it home and cook it.
The quail ... not the dog. Right?

I'm pretty sure that if you take some unlucky bastard's dog home and grill it, you're a dead man.

[lsbets]

The quail ... not the dog. Right?

I'm pretty sure that if you take some unlucky bastard's dog home and grill it, you're a dead man.

:lol: :lol: Didn't realize how I wrote that. Yes, the quail. I think if someone grills your dog in Texas, you're allowed to kill the guy without fear of getting arrested.

[DJofSD]

Not the dog. :lol:

Now, about that quail. I don't think Alton has covered that yet.

But I bet Ted Nugent knows for sure!

[rrpic6]

Three things about hunting with Texas I can say with certainty:

1) Drinking is common

2) Hunting without the right stamps is common

3) Getting peppered with bird shot is fairly common

So that scene in Farenheit9/11 with Bush playing horseshoes with a bottle of beer at his feet was real?:lol: :lol:

[JustRalph]

I must have missed that part of the constitution that says that the press corp must be notified about every damn thing that happens. Personally, I feel it was up to Cheney i.e. the Shooter, and the victim, i.e. the Shootee to decide whether to release the info at all. Screw the press.............

[hcap]

Question

Slate:

The official story is that the blast from the vice president's shotgun hit Whittington at a distance of 30 yards. Hunters at the Vaughn Building [the headquarters of Harry Whittington] are skeptical. The hunt took place on a cold, windy afternoon. Whittington and his fellow hunters were probably wearing warm clothing—say, a jacket and a flannel shirt. Cheney was using a 28-gauge shotgun, a smaller-diameter firearm with pellets smaller than BBs. Whittington's friends question whether the pellets could have penetrated his layers of clothing and skin at that range. Yet two pellets lodged against his larynx, another was in his liver, and another migrated into the heart muscle, causing the heart attack. The pattern of wounds was between the lower chest and the forehead, a pretty tight zone for shot of 30 yards. If the range was considerably less than 30 yards, then it is likely that Whittington's injuries were worse than the initial statement by Katharine Armstrong indicated. (The blast "knocked him silly," but "he was fine.")

Cheney was using 28 gauge shotgun shells loaded with 3/4 oz of #7-1/2 shot. That particular load carries approximately 262 BBs. The doctor caring for the wounded man said that he removed about 200 BBs. That means about 4/5ths of the shot in the load struck the man in an area no larger than about 18 inches in diameter.

That seems like an awfully tight pattern at 30 yards?


It will probably come out sooner or later. Obviously still an accident, but if Whittington was indeed shot at close range, why lie?

[Big Bill]

I must have missed that part of the constitution that says that the press corp must be notified about every damn thing that happens. Personally, I feel it was up to Cheney i.e. the Shooter, and the victim, i.e. the Shootee to decide whether to release the info at all. Screw the press.............

Right on JR!

Big Bill

[Tom]

I thought it was pretty funny - a room full of alleged reporters whining that nobody TOLD them what news was breaking?

Uh, don't real reporters go out and FIND stories?
The idiot from NBC....Greggory? What a spoiled little boy he is! Like he wet his pants and blamed the WH for not telling him! Hahaha! cBs will be scouting this guy! What a loser this meat head is.
The best part about the whole thing is that McClellan admonished him the next day for dwelling on this no-story and all the while, he already knew about the silent heart attack...and DIDN'T tell anyone about it! :lol:

[betchatoo]

I'm not as interested in when the reporters were told as in if and when a police report was filed. That is required immediatly in all shooting cases.

[Lefty]

I'm not as interested in when the reporters were told as in if and when a police report was filed. That is required immediatly in all shooting cases.


Jeez, the important thing is the man got medical help immediately. Why do you libs wanta harp on a non-story?
Whatcha think about ALGORE "pissing" on this country in Saudi Arabia? Now that's a story!

[Lefty]

I thought it was pretty funny - a room full of alleged reporters whining that nobody TOLD them what news was breaking?

Uh, don't real reporters go out and FIND stories?
The idiot from NBC....Greggory? What a spoiled little boy he is! Like he wet his pants and blamed the WH for not telling him! Hahaha! cBs will be scouting this guy! What a loser this meat head is.
The best part about the whole thing is that McClellan admonished him the next day for dwelling on this no-story and all the while, he already knew about the silent heart attack...and DIDN'T tell anyone about it! :lol:

I remember during Clinton these White House reporters all chummy and took everything the press secretary said at face value. But in this adm they act like attack dogs. No, they're not biased, oh no...

[betchatoo]

Jeez, the important thing is the man got medical help immediately. Why do you libs wanta harp on a non-story?
Whatcha think about ALGORE "pissing" on this country in Saudi Arabia? Now that's a story!

Lefty: I mostly ignore anything you write because it's predictable. Dems bad...Republicans good. It's like a teacher gave you an assignment to write it 5,000 times and you've chosen here to do it.

I would like to know if you feel it's okay for Cheney, and a bunch of others sworn to uphold the law, not to report a shooting (or to delay reporting it) although the law states you must report it immediatly. Is it okay because he's conservative? My guess is you'd be howling if a Dem did it.

And what in the world does Al Gore have to do with this thread?

[betchatoo]

By the way, my local paper just gave me the timeline. The chief of staff reported the incident within an hour and a half of the shooting. Seems reasonable to me. If the press didn't get on it they just weren't doing their job.

[kenwoodallpromos]

The problem with the 2 party system is, when you say you think Cheney should be medically cleared, I come back and remind you that in 1992 Clinton refused to release his medical records- then you talk about Cheney's mental condition, and talk about Clinton maybe having herpes or other STD-VD. This can go on for hours.
Let's just talk about known facts, OK?
The fact I heard about the shooting from the Press Sec. is that Cheney was "blinded by the sun"- my speculation is he was blinded by the firepower!LOL!

[Lefty]

bet, I don't give a rodent's dierrere whether you ignore me or not. Would your first reaction be top go to your friend, accompany him to the hospital or call the media? And talk about predictable, ALGORE's "pissing" on this country in Saudi Arabia and the libs are not interested. Yes, I feel the Dems in power now are corrupt, liars and don't give a damn about this country and people like you don't care cause you think the welfare state's a good thing. So there ya are and there ya go...

[Suff]

I feel it was up to Cheney i.e. the Shooter, and the victim, i.e. the Shootee to decide whether to release the info at all. Screw the press.............

Cheney felt differently than you. He felt that an eyewitness who owned the ranch should tell a newspaper that prints once a month about it.

This is a non-story. Reasonable people know that. It has sizzle....but no meat.

It is bizzare? VP of the USA shoots someone?:D The sizzle will sizzle till it gets over cooked and no one can change that.


Regarding the who , what and where of releasing the news.

Its important to understand that the WHITE HOUSE PRESS CORP (WHPC)covers the Executive branch. The State Dept has its press corp, the DOD has thiers.

The White House gets most of its message to the American People through the WHPC. And to a large degree the Executive Branch communicates with World leaders, and the Worlds population through the WHPC.

the WHPC does carry the Executice Branch's water. I am sure there are many White Press Release's and White House Press Briefings where Scott Mcellenan is using the WHPC to disseminmate to the American People what the White house would like to convey.

Its a working relationship, a sort of, one hand wash's the other (at times).

It is totally inconsistent with tradition, protocol and respect that when something this Bizarre happens, that not only was it witheld for an extended period of time, it was releaed to a publication that publish's once per month and did'nt even answer than phone when Mrs Armstrong Called! They were closed!

So keep all factors in mind. The next time the White House wants to tout a 4.9%v unemployment rate do you think they will call the Corpus Cristi Times and call it quits? The answer is no.

Perspective men, perspective.

T

[Lefty]

Yet the "meaty" story of ALGORE in Saudi Arabia goes unreported by the mainstream media. Hmmm....

[betchatoo]

Yet the "meaty" story of ALGORE in Saudi Arabia goes unreported by the mainstream media. Hmmm....

It was in the Chicago Tribune and the Sun Times. That's not mainstream media?

[JustRalph]

I'm not as interested in when the reporters were told as in if and when a police report was filed. That is required immediatly in all shooting cases.

Really? I can't find that in the Texas Statutes. But I didn't look real hard. Can you quote a section?

[Lefty]

bet, in Chicago, maybe. Haven't heard the "todoo" i've heard over the Cheney story. The Cheyney story is everywhere the Gore story is not. I hear outrage by the press because Cheney didn't inform them quick enough about a personal matter but no outrage about Gore. Was there outrage in the Chicago papers or merely a reporting?

[Hosshead]

Hunters get sprayed with birdshot all the time. But usually at a much farther distance. I know !
But what made this accident bad, was the distance (reported 30 yds.) Ouch !
Had he been hunting dove instead of quail, this would have never happened.

[betchatoo]

Really? I can't find that in the Texas Statutes. But I didn't look real hard. Can you quote a section?

Texas health and Safety Code
§ 161.041. MANDATORY REPORTING OF GUNSHOT WOUNDS. A
physician who attends or treats, or who is requested to attend or
treat, a bullet or gunshot wound, or the administrator,
superintendent, or other person in charge of a hospital,
sanitorium, or other institution in which a bullet or gunshot wound
is attended or treated or in which the attention or treatment is
requested, shall report the case at once to the law enforcement
authority of the municipality or county in which the physician
practices or in which the institution is located.

Acts 1989, 71st Leg., ch. 678, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1989. Amended
by Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 38, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1999.

As I said, the case was reported within an hour and a half which I consider reasonable.

[JustRalph]

I believe that section requires Doctors to report..............not anybody else. If I read it right..........Cheney et al were not required to report the shooting to the Police. At least not by that section of law. Interesting.


Thanks for the info.

[DJofSD]

What I've heard discussed on the radio is the local sheriff was called and he filed a report. I don't know if the sheriff showed up at the ranch or the hospital.

Additionally, there will be a grand jury investigation to look into the incedent. It was characterized as SOP in hunting accidents to do "due dilegence" to make sure it was just that -- nothing more than a hunting accident.

[betchatoo]

I believe that section requires Doctors to report..............not anybody else. If I read it right..........Cheney et al were not required to report the shooting to the Police. At least not by that section of law. Interesting.


Thanks for the info.

JR: I know I saw something in the papers requiring the shooter to report an accidental shooting, but I'm darned if I can find it again. Maybe one of our Texas residents can help on this

[lsbets]

JR: I know I saw something in the papers requiring the shooter to report an accidental shooting, but I'm darned if I can find it again. Maybe one of our Texas residents can help on this

We have gun laws in Texas? :confused: :(

[Indulto]

Originall posted by kenwoodallpromos:
The problem with the 2 party system is, when you say you think Cheney should be medically cleared, I come back and remind you that in 1992 Clinton refused to release his medical records- then you talk about Cheney's mental condition, and talk about Clinton maybe having herpes or other STD-VD. KW,
I don’t know how else to say this, but my raising this issue wasn’t politically motivated,
(at least not originally). Even assuming you’re tongue in cheek here, you’re comparing apples and oranges. I don’t consider Clinton’s lack of truthfulness about anything defensible, and believe it helped set the stage for this administration’s taking that behavior a step further, but his administration was hardly the first to deceive the public, medically or otherwise.

If you remember, Reagan served a second term while suffering from early stages of Alzheimer’s because public awareness of that condition was not as widespread then as it is today (although still not to the degree it should be). IMO, the only heroic figure associated with that situation was his daughter, Maureen, regardless of whether she was aware of the deception (and I don’t know that she was).

Bottom line – an older person was unintentionally wounded while hunting by a firearm wielded by his comparably-aged friend who was supposedly competent, and knowledgeable of hunter safety rules and practiced in adhering to them. The latter is known to have medical problems that conceivably could have affected him in some way that resulted in that unfortunate occurrence. Absent confirmation that the accident was caused by the former, it is not unreasonable to consider possible debilitation of the latter, even if that person is the VP.
As this messenger is also a piano player, I’m starting to get a little worried. http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/images/UBGX/E12.gif

[Tom]

He shot a lawyer....what's the big deal? :rolleyes:

[Snag]

I don't understand the WH press corps thinking the VP should have come running to them with this "story".

Why were there no press corps with Mr. Cheney? Is it that the gov does not provide a plane for the press that follow the VP as they do for the President? The press can be in a field in 100 degree temps with mother Shehann (sp) and cover her all day long but not with the VP?

I think this is just another example of the press trying to make a story out of nothing just as they did with the picture of the "rocket" and the little boy. Anything to bash bash bash.

[so.cal.fan]

Obviously, Cheney did not intentionally shoot his friend.
Just as most give Ted Kennedy the benefit of the doubt that he at least did not intend to let his friend, Mary Jo Kopekne drown.
However.....the difference in these two unfortunate incidents is obvious. :rolleyes:

[GaryG]

Obviously, Cheney did not intentionally shoot his friend.
Just as most give Ted Kennedy the benefit of the doubt that he at least did not intend to let his friend, Mary Jo Kopekne drown.
However.....the difference in these two unfortunate incidents is obvious. :rolleyes:Yes, to me this is more similar tp Pres Ford hitting someone in the head with an errant tee shot. More serious injury of course, but the same principle.

[JustRalph]

Obviously, Cheney did not intentionally shoot his friend.
Just as most give Ted Kennedy the benefit of the doubt that he at least did not intend to let his friend, Mary Jo Kopekne drown.
However.....the difference in these two unfortunate incidents is obvious. :rolleyes:

yeah, Cheney called for help and the victim received it................

http://www.columbuscool.com/bill_huntin.jpg

[kenwoodallpromos]

I apoligize- If Cheney has anyhting but a bad heart I was unaware. And if a bad heart causes someone to mistake small game for a person, I missed a lot of good excuses while hunting with my brother as a child!LOL!! :D

[Indulto]

KW,

I hunted small game as a kid, but even with a shotgun I never did hit anything for several seasons until a rabbit finally broke to my left. After all the time it took to skin it, remove all the shot, and cook it, the taste wasn’t worth the wait, so I went back to fishing until I discovered the track. There I developed a propensity to shoot myself in the foot.

[Tom]

Ralph, you're killing me.

Killing me.

:lol:

[rrpic6]

This should cheer up ole quick draw.

Baker Hughes, Halliburton, Google jump



Oil services giant !snapnquote symbol="BHI" name="Baker Hughes"/> shares jumped 4.5% after the company said fourth-quarter profit jumped 44%. That helped all the oil services stocks to move higher. Halliburton (HAL (http://moneycentral.msn.com/detail/stock_quote?Symbol=HAL), news (http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/rcnews.asp?Symbol=HAL), msgs (http://moneycentral.msn.com/community/message/board.asp?Symbol=HAL)) added to the froth by raising its dividend 20% to 15 cents a share and announcing a 2-for-1 stock split. Plus, it will buy back $1 billion in shares. The stock jumped 3.8%.

[Secretariat]

This should cheer up ole quick draw.

Baker Hughes, Halliburton, Google jump



Oil services giant !snapnquote symbol="BHI" name="Baker Hughes"/> shares jumped 4.5% after the company said fourth-quarter profit jumped 44%. That helped all the oil services stocks to move higher. Halliburton (HAL (http://moneycentral.msn.com/detail/stock_quote?Symbol=HAL), news (http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/rcnews.asp?Symbol=HAL), msgs (http://moneycentral.msn.com/community/message/board.asp?Symbol=HAL)) added to the froth by raising its dividend 20% to 15 cents a share and announcing a 2-for-1 stock split. Plus, it will buy back $1 billion in shares. The stock jumped 3.8%.

Whew...

[lsbets]

Glad I had all my clients buying Halliburtin before I got called back to active duty. It sure worked out well for them. :)

[rrpic6]

Glad I had all my clients buying Halliburtin before I got called back to active duty. It sure worked out well for them. :)

You played "connect the dots" very well. Bush.......Cheney.......Iraq........Haliburton.... ...No Bid Contracts.....BIG PROFITS!

I hope you can see where I'm skeptical of these guys and their motives.

[lsbets]

You played "connect the dots" very well. Bush.......Cheney.......Iraq........Haliburton.... ...No Bid Contracts.....BIG PROFITS!

I hope you can see where I'm skeptical of these guys and their motives.

Yes, I did - the Asian economic slump had ended, the world's largest population was going to use a lot of oil, so there would have to be more drilling. One of the best run oil services companies in the world seemed like a no brainer investment - when the demand for what you do should go through the roof, chances are your profits will too.

[Secretariat]

Glad I had all my clients buying Halliburtin before I got called back to active duty. It sure worked out well for them. :)

Pity it didn't for the rest of the country.

[highnote]

Glad I had all my clients buying Halliburtin before I got called back to active duty. It sure worked out well for them. :)

I'm glad that worked out well for you, too.

I thought about buying those stocks and oil, too, before the Iraq war, but on some level it felt wrong to me to make profits when I knew our soldiers would die in battle in Iraq.

Maybe I'm wrong and shouldn't feel this way. But I went on gut instinct. Maybe I should have talked to some military people first and gotten their feedback.

I don't have any problem with Oil companies making big profits. They had a tough time of it there for a lot of years. Hell, even Mobil and Exxon were allowed to re-merge.

[Lefty]

You played "connect the dots" very well. Bush.......Cheney.......Iraq........Haliburton.... ...No Bid Contracts.....BIG PROFITS!

I hope you can see where I'm skeptical of these guys and their motives.
Well, les see, Haliburton employs lottsa people so that's Jobs. Amazing how libs always complaining about jobs and then rails against the corps that supply them. Also there's a cap on companies like Haliburton in wartime. Didja know MM made more on his stupid film than Haliburton?

[ljb]

Well, les see, Haliburton employs lottsa people so that's Jobs. Amazing how libs always complaining about jobs and then rails against the corps that supply them. Also there's a cap on companies like Haliburton in wartime. Didja know MM made more on his stupid film than Haliburton?
I didn't even know Halliburton made any money on Michael Moore's film. :D

[Tom]

Rebuilding NO provided lots of jobs, too.

Oh, wait - most of those went to ILLEGALS, with Bush's blessing!

[Lefty]

I didn't even know Halliburton made any money on Michael Moore's film. :D


lbj, is pretty dense so on the off chance he's not being funny(even when he tries the laughmeter doesn't move)i'll write a better sentence.
Didja know that Haliburton has made less with its activities in Iraq than MM made with his stupid film?

[Secretariat]

lbj, is pretty dense so on the off chance he's not being funny(even when he tries the laughmeter doesn't move)i'll write a better sentence.
Didja know that Haliburton has made less with its activities in Iraq than MM made with his stupid film?

Can you back this up Lefty? That MM made more in his film than Hallibrton did in Iraq or is this just your opinion? Also, at least more didn't bilk taxpayers out of their tax dollars, people paid willingly to see his film.

[Lefty]

No. Saw it on the news but it was prob Fox news and I know how you libs hate fair and balanced. But even without this info, Haliburton provides jobs and does more for the country than MM who just keeps geing fatter with opinions passed off as fact. You guys decry that there's not enough jobs but you belittle and hate the people who provide them. Sounds oxymoronic to me.

[Secretariat]

No.

Thanks. Thought not.

[Lefty]

sec, you guys should start watching Fox then you won't just get lib news but ALL the news. BTW, wish you libs when you quote me would use the full quote.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Seems intutive that Moore, his producer wife and the movie made more than Haliburton for their efforts in supplying and support for the Iraq war. A $1 Billion contract capped at a 7% profit margin would only earn Haliburton $70 million. F-911 took in how many hundreds of millions, and they own a significant amount of the rights to it and the profits. If nothing else, they sure got more than 7% for their efforts (yes, I know Haliburton and others tend to find a few other ways to tack on some charges, and the added, separate oil work contracts are worth many more millions as well).

[Lefty]

Thanks, Steve. sec, there ya go.

[Tom]

??? There ya go?
Steve said "intuitively." Now it is a fact??

[Steve 'StatMan']

A movie that probably cost $20-$40 million took in how many hundreds of millions of dollars at the box office? I don't rememeber, and don't care. But the profit margin had to be huge. Moore and his wife had to get at least 20% of the proceeds together. If they didn't make $100 million on it, I'd be surprised.

Haliburton had to employ and feed how many U.S. troops (and likely the imbeded journalists, including Moore's undercover payrollers) for that $1 Billion dollars, which, was supposed to net them a capped 7% profit, making them $70 million.

Fact, intutitve, who cares about the thousandth snit we've had here in off-topic. If Moore and his wife didn't make more than Haliburton, they're still mighty well off, and certainly earned 10-100x more than Chaney and Bush do for being the V.P. and Pres. of the United States, and the foil in Moore's movie that made him and his wife their multi-millions.

Believe it, don't believe it, prove it, disprove it, I don't care. The original premise sure seems correct to me, and I'd said so here long before tonight.

[Tom]

Steve,
Don't get me wrong - I wasn't arguing your assumption, just that Lefty did what we all get on the libs about so often -using somebody's opinion as a fact.
Frankly, I don't care what MM made - it so damn irelevant to this thread to begin with.
I have to believe Haliburton is on the up and up becasue Chenney used to run it and we all know what a "straight shooter" HE is! :D
I mean, Dick is always "on target."
That guy is sharp as a pistol.
He is a high caliber person.
He had a chance to make a lot of money and took a shot - what's wrong with that?
He always gets right to the point - just covers the "bullet points."
You can bet his goal is always in his sights.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Heh! Heh! Good ones! Hopefully our beloved "V.P. Dick" will be able to laugh about all these things now that his buddy is up and moving around, looked fairly strong when he spoke at the photo-op, course he's a lawyer, and likely knows how to make a strong presentation.

Yes, opinions are different than facts, and yes, the more one can provide a background of information and facts to support an opinion, the stronger the case in favor of that opinion.

Of course, I don't have any links, no quotes or articles from former Administration members or Nobel Prize winners.

[Lefty]

Tom, I saw it on Fox as a fact and don't give a rat's ass whether you or the libs want to blve it or not. What was wrong with Moore's movie is passed off HIS opinion as fact and I was pointing out that fact as well as there is a cap on Haliburton's profits but none on Moore's. Getting damned tired of the whining of the libs about jobs then they denigrate the people that provide them. I think they need economics lessons and frankly, wouldn't hurt you either.

[Tom]

Tom, I saw it on Fox as a fact and don't give a rat's ass whether you or the libs want to blve it or not. What was wrong with Moore's movie is passed off HIS opinion as fact and I was pointing out that fact as well as there is a cap on Haliburton's profits but none on Moore's. Getting damned tired of the whining of the libs about jobs then they denigrate the people that provide them. I think they need economics lessons and frankly, wouldn't hurt you either.

Jobs - how about Bush OUTSOURCING ports to TERORIST nations?
How about allowing ILLEGALS to do the rebuilding work in NO?
I don't need an economics lesson - I need a president who has some brain activity above that of a turtle.

[Secretariat]

I saw it on Fox as a fact and don't give a rat's ass whether you or the libs want to blve it or not. What was wrong with Moore's movie is passed off HIS opinion as fact and I was pointing out that fact as well as there is a cap on Haliburton's profits but none on Moore's. Getting damned tired of the whining of the libs about jobs then they denigrate the people that provide them. I think they need economics lessons and frankly, wouldn't hurt you either.

Didn't GW pass off WMD's in Iraq as "fact" as well? Well, we've been over this numerous times. You may not like Moore's style, and maybe you found some things he got wrong in the movie, but he got a lot more right if you go back and look at it again. But that's not what this is about.

You alluded to FOX contending that Moore made more profits out of this than Halliburton. That's simply not true. First off, the film grossed about a 100 million at the box office. Of that Disney, the Weinsteins and their associated charities got a huge slice. Part of the Disney to Weinstein deal was that a large portion would be donated to charity. But again I digress.
This amount (even when adding in DVD profits) dwarfs in comparision to Halliburton.

Here's a few things to read up on Lefty when you're not being brainwashed by FOX News:

WASHINGTON, July 25 (HalliburtonWatch.org) -- Halliburton announced on Friday that its KBR division, responsible for carrying out Pentagon contracts, experienced a 284 percent increase in operating profits during the second quarter of this year. (That's one quarter Lefty)

http://www.vanityfair.com/commentary/content/articles/050307roco02

The Spoils of War (This has expanded since this article Lefty)

Halliburton subsidiary KBR got $12 billion worth of exclusive contracts for work in Iraq. But even more shocking is how KBR spent some of the money. Former U.S. Army Corps of Engineers official Bunnatine Greenhouse is blowing the whistle on the Dick Cheney–linked company's profits of war

By MICHAEL SHNAYERSON

This time, she was sure, they were going to get her.
Bunnatine Greenhouse had been a huge nuisance since the buildup to the war in Iraq—questioning contracts, writing caveats on them in her spidery script, wanting to know why Halliburton and its subsidiary KBR (formerly known as Kellogg, Brown and Root) should be thrown billions of dollars of government business while other companies, big and small, were shut out.

And Bunny Greenhouse wasn't that easy to ignore: she was the highest-ranking civilian at the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (USACE). Specifically, she was the officer in charge of ensuring that any work contracted out by the Army Corps to private industry—from help in building bridges and dams and highways to support for wartime troops—was granted in a fair and aboveboard way. For two years, Greenhouse had asked hard questions about why the head of the Corps, to whom she reported directly, kept giving exclusive, non-compete contracts to KBR that now amounted to roughly $10.8 billion. (It was only 10.8 Billion when the article was researched)
....

(Below Lefty is a little more recent)

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11048821/

2005 was best year in Halliburton's history
Associated Press
Updated: 7:20 p.m. ET Jan. 26, 2006

HOUSTON - Oilfield services conglomerate Halliburton Co. on Thursday said 2005 was the company’s best in its 86-year history, a year anchored by a profitable fourth quarter of strong sales and increased rig activity. The income reversed a loss from a year earlier.

Quarterly profit rose to $1.1 billion (or about the price of 11 Fahrenheit 911's before costs), or $2.08 a share, including a one-time tax gain of $540 million or $1.02 a share. That compared to a net loss of $203 million, or 46 cents a share last year, which included a $384 million loss from discontinued operations.

The results widely beat Wall Street’s projections of 89 cents a share on revenue of $5.24 billion, according to analysts surveyed by Thomson Financial."

.........................

Lefty, I'm fine with you disagreeing with me, but relying on Rush or FOX News for ALL your information is simply not doing your due dilligence.

Halliburton is raking this country over the coals with "TAXPAYER" money with no bid contracts. Michael Moore is inviting you to pay for a movie ticket if you so desire- it's not taxpayer money and you don't have to spend a penny. There is a huge, huge difference.

[hcap]

Sec, thankyou.
Now,THAT was a fair and balanced report. :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[ljb]

This from Sec.
"
Lefty, I'm fine with you disagreeing with me, but relying on Rush or FOX News for ALL your information is simply not doing your due dilligence.

Halliburton is raking this country over the coals with "TAXPAYER" money with no bid contracts. Michael Moore is inviting you to pay for a movie ticket if you so desire- it's not taxpayer money and you don't have to spend a penny. There is a huge, huge difference."
Let's see now one is making money using taxpayers money and the other is using free market enterprise. Which do you suppose Lefty approves ? :D

[Lefty]

So, you're against jobs? BTW, even Suff says not many companies can do over there what Haliburton does.
I sure can't rely on a lib media that thinks Cheyney's accidental shooting of his pal is more important than a spokesman for the dem party(Al Gore) bad mouthing the U.S. in Saudi Arabia. BTW, O'Reilly's polll has 85% agreeing that the gore story more important> that story has been< for the most part< unreported by the mainstream media>Why would i rely on that source for anything< unless i was a lib< hmmmm?

[ljb]

So, you're against jobs? BTW, even Suff says not many companies can do over there what Haliburton does.
I sure can't rely on a lib media that thinks Cheyney's accidental shooting of his pal is more important than a spokesman for the dem party(Al Gore) bad mouthing the U.S. in Saudi Arabia. BTW, O'Reilly's polll has 85% agreeing that the gore story more important> that story has been< for the most part< unreported by the mainstream media>Why would i rely on that source for anything< unless i was a lib< hmmmm?
Again you fail to respond to a question. O'lielly's polls are worthless in all logical environments. They would probably work on fantasy island or some disney world environment but we are talking about reality here.

[Lefty]

Still don't know what your q is lbj. And you're saying the opinion of over a 100,000 people is worthless? You the man in fantasyland, lbj.