My thoughts on Gulfstream

[OTM Al]

I have just returned from a 4 day trip to Ft Lauderdale/Miami and ended up going to Gulfstream 3 of the days I was there, including Saturday. Wanted to share my thoughts since a) much bashing has gone on about the new surroundings and b) I said I would :)

The main thing I want to say about it is I enjoyed it very much. Wandered in on Friday and was easily able to get a table outside right next to the finishline/winners circle. This was probably soon after the gates opened, though I can't remember for sure. This was a great seat to watch and wager from as the tellers were right behind us. I did go into the simulcast rooms on occaision. They were fairly full, but there was no charge to get in. Shared our table with a wonderful couple from Ottawa named Don and Val. Don is a long time player (said he was at Belmont to see Secretariat's TC win) and his wife had worked with horses. As a team one doing PP handicapping and the other looking at the physical aspects of the horses, they had pretty well paid for their vacation with their winnings. I know they don't use a computer, but if anyone out there knows them, tell them Al and Kathy said hi and sorry we didn't get a chance to say goodbye and hopefully we will meet up same time next year. All in all a really fun day, though I got a bit sunburned.

Saturday we planned to meet up with Don and Val again. Got in line early and probably still would have gotten the same seat again ourselves, but Don had managed to sneak in and save it even earlier. Unfortunately the rains came about the same time as the first race, so sitting outside didn't work too well. Fortunately there is still a lot of covered area that is still outside that we could stay in so stayed pretty dry for the whole card. Simo rooms were packed and were still free. All horse wizard booths were taken and I actually saw one guy playing it! Got to admit though he looked pretty bored. Despite it all still a good time.

Didn't initially plan to, but we went back for part of the card Monday. Had some time to kill before getting on the plane so we decided just to go back on the spur of the moment and got in a few minutes before the first race. The good outside seating was of course taken by then, but many benches in the walkway would be open, so we would sit and handicap (no prep time since didn't plan on going so ended up losing :( ) then walk over to the ring and back to the rail to watch the race. No problems there.

So all in all a great trip. There were plenty of food options and what I had was good and reasonably priced (at least for someone that lives in New York. Too much for you, just bring your own. Saw plenty that did that). The service staff and the tellers were friendly and helpful. Some of the tellers were a bit old and hard of hearing, but hey, its Florida, so what's new. The building looked beautiful. I never did venture upstairs because there was no need to, though next time I go I may buy tickets on the net in advance just to check it all out. I think I heard the dining area up there just had a minimum if you wanted to sit up there, but no entry charge but was enjoying where I was so much i never went to check it out. It was clean too. There were service people constantly going around sweeping up after the messier patrons.

I do agree that there is a real lack of seating outdoors by the track itself. They could easily rectify this by building up the area to the north of the clubhouse where there is plenty of room to put up a lot of outdoor seating. I also agree that they should just dump those silly horse wizards as that would clear up a bunch of room in the simo centers. People were just sitting there watching the simulcasts anyway. I will also admit that I can't judge what a really big day there would be like as the attendence for the saturday card was certainly kept down by the rain (first bad day they'd had all meet) and also I believe by the fact that a lot of people went the week before instead to see Jerry Bailey as there was no real star running in the Donn.

So, I am definitely going back. I had a great time there and plan to have many more. yes, there are still some things that need fixed, but I think they will pay attention and change some stuff around. I'm sorry for those who feel some loss of the old track. I liked it too, but this new set up has some good things going for it too.

[karlskorner]

Glad you enjoyed it. Like I said in a previous thread, twice as good as last year and only 1/2 as good as next year.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Thats great Al, Glad you liked it,I know the "French" couple loved it, Its too bad the "hardened" New Yorkers dont share your report. Hey Karl, Glad to see you posting!

[PaceAdvantage]

Hardened? Why?

[the little guy]

First of all, I'm glad Al enjoyed his trip.

As for the moronic remark that somehow insinuated there was a correlation between being from NY and disliking Gulfstream, I have five friends who recently spent time at Gulfstream and were extremely unhappy with what they experienced, one was from NY, one was from Baltimore, one from Washington DC, and two from Boston.

[JulieKrone]

Well, the #1 Jewish Wine in NY for decades on end was: "Hyman, I wanna go to Miamiiiiiiiiii!!!!

[toetoe]

Julie,

Man oh Manischewitz, what a whine! :D

[CryingForTheHorses]

Hardened? Why?

LMAO..Its VERY easy to "Rattle" yours and TLG's chain!!

[the little guy]

Don't compliment yourself.

That's not a rattle you hear ( unless it's your own )....it's pity.

[JulieKrone]

Don't compliment yourself.

That's not a rattle you hear ( unless it's your own )....it's pity.
It's not jsut a rattler, but a combo rattler-pacifier obsequied him by Frankie.

[JulieKrone]

Julie,

Man oh Manischewitz, what a whine! :D
Toto, i've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore!

[JulieKrone]

Thats great Al, Glad you liked it,I know the "French" couple loved it, Its too bad the "hardened" New Yorkers dont share your report. Hey Karl, Glad to see you posting!
Tom, they did 'almost nothing racing-related except for glancing at a DRF'...probably just Frenched the whole time! Didn't make it upstairs, didn't visit the paddock...in three days!!!!!!!!!! I suspect they were just flirtin' 'n tryin' to set up a swap.

[JulieKrone]

Hardened? Why?
Uhhh, DUH! He put quotes around the two key words!!!

[toetoe]

Julie, Please keep in mind the no-obsequy rule. Sheesh. :bang: :D

[OTM Al]

Wow, that was so funny. What, you find a third grader to come up with that one? Obviously your reading comprehension skills are lower than that.

I just want people to know that though there still are things to be addressed, Gulfstream is still a good place to spend a day at the races. I did have my fears before we got to the track, but I'm certainly going to go back next year.

[JulieKrone]

No disrespect meant.

[Indulto]

HANDICAPPING INSIGHTS by Dick Powell FEBRUARY 10, 2006
http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/editorial/article.cgi?id=3497 (http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/editorial/article.cgi?id=3497)


“... I have not been to the new Gulfstream Park, and when I do go, I may or may not like the new facility. They did an awesome job last year installing a new dirt course and a spectacular turf course, so all is not bad. However, simulcasting is a different animal, and first and foremost you need the input of off-track customers who watch and wager from remote sites. Years ago this would be unheard of, but in today's market where more than 80 percent of a track's wagering takes place away from the track, this information is critical.

Every once in a while there would be shoe information displayed on the lower right hand of the screen. Not very visible, not very consistent as to when it appeared, and it only gave information on who was wearing bend shoes with nothing about mud caulks. There were many horses on Saturday trained by Nick Zito, Allen Jerkens and Michael Hushion -- all noted for using mud caulks on a regular basis. Yet, we had no information from the Gulfstream simulcast whether they were using mud caulks.

In fact, the story gets worse. In the Equibase charts for Saturday, not a single horse raced with mud caulks. This is impossible to believe. The only explanation is that Gulfstream does not track this piece of critical handicapping information and only gives you information on bend shoes.

An example of how shoe information should be handled can be found from the New York Racing Association (NYRA). They include it in their crawl across the bottom of the screen, they put up a graphic page with it while the horses are leaving the paddock, the track announcer announces it as the horses come out on the track, and horseplayers know where to find it. ...”

[Tom]

Do they put mud caulk info in the charts?

[OTM Al]

Not the ones I've seen. They were putting the info on the toteboard below the jumbotron for people at the track, but I don't recall seeing it on the screen, which would be the same as for simo.

[BIG49010]

I know First Sami didn't have caulks or turns, and I bet against and Pletch had them on all his horses.:)

[linrom1]

"So all in all a great trip. There were plenty of food options and what I had was good and reasonably priced (at least for someone that lives in New York."

So, just how long do you think it'll take Stronach to turn these fancy restaurants into a beer and pizza parlor? :lol:

[linrom1]

ate: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 22:38:45 -0800 (PST)
From: par four <a_bogey@yahoo.com>
Subject: Dick Powell's anaylsis right on

I absolutly concur with Mr. Powell's observations regarding the Feb. 4th video coverage of gulfstream. I will never play wet days such as this in the future
there. I have already commented on gulf here. The walking ring is too damned small and tight, the video coverage is very poor due to this and the beautiful friggen fountain.One cannot read body language as well due to the tight size of the ring too. Add to this the horses' connections standing around waving to friends on their cell phones, the camera panning right with the horses going left and never seeing the horses saddled and . and.... ! Sometimes some of the horses entered never make it to the walking ring too and go from stall to track. The only good thing about the walking ring is the ability to see their feet for grass/slop. The trainers hate the elevation change from the saddling stalls to the walking ring, its only a matter of time before a horse slips or wheels after getting spooked and goes over. As a staff writer Mr. Powell will have free access to put his butt in a comped $10 seat to see the warmups and race too. Those of the silent majority, who refuse to partake of Magnas $10 seat to watch bottom level claimers and maiden claimers, stand trackside and watch on the big screen until the 1/8th poll. There is very little cheering as well, you'll hear more inside as some guys yell at the simulcast TVs as the horses run by outside ! I did hear mention from someone that there are plans to build a grandstand at the north end of the clubhouse though, I'll believe it when I see it. Last week the 10 palms restaurant opened on the 2nd floor. it runs the entire length of the clubhouse with glassed in windows with bar in the middle. Very nice if ouhave a window table and like $12 hamburgers as minimum fare with $8 soups tc.(menu on G website). The 2nd floor of the courtyard view now has 15-20 plasma tvs on the walls with some self betting machines and tables , so you can get that outside terrace simulcast experience, except the glare from ambient reflecting light makes the picture hard to see. The sports theater is due to open this weekend on the 3rd floor, can't wait !! Guess I'll have to wait for my special invite from Mr Savin to view the luxury boxs' which run the entire 3rd floor trackside with private balconies ! BTW, a Gulfsteam simulcaster won the $1.2 mil P6 at SA last week and when interviewed on camera today, commented that after he hit the p6 he couldnot buy a DRF for the next days races there. HA !

[CryingForTheHorses]

I want to give my thoughts on the new paddock, The old paddock was better for the fans as they could walk around and see the horses, For the horses the "old" paddock was more dangerous as you didnt have a lot of room to move your horse when you walked, Unless you were in the outdoor ring,The hall where they do get saddled now isnt so bad,The fans really do have a chance to really see the horses, You can go to the holding barn and see each race before they go walk to the paddock Too bad they couldnt have put a huge window in the building across from the stalls, I also thing the new walking ring is big enough as it is wide and if you do have a unruly horse you do have room The ramp everyone is talking about isnt so bad,Its also rubber and a horse wont slip as its only maybe 20 degrees,They walk up steeper ramp getting on vans to come to the races.The thing that did make me somewhat nervous was all the people ,They engulfed a ll around the paddock, There wasnt room for any more.It was amazing,My horse hit the gate and lost all chance.BUT Ill be back to fight another day.

[point given]

I want to give my thoughts on the new paddock, The old paddock was better for the fans as they could walk around and see the horses, For the horses the "old" paddock was more dangerous as you didnt have a lot of room to move your horse when you walked, Unless you were in the outdoor ring,The hall where they do get saddled now isnt so bad,The fans really do have a chance to really see the horses, You can go to the holding barn and see each race before they go walk to the paddock Too bad they couldnt have put a huge window in the building across from the stalls, I also thing the new walking ring is big enough as it is wide and if you do have a unruly horse you do have room The ramp everyone is talking about isnt so bad,Its also rubber and a horse wont slip as its only maybe 20 degrees,They walk up steeper ramp getting on vans to come to the races.The thing that did make me somewhat nervous was all the people ,They engulfed a ll around the paddock, There wasnt room for any more.It was amazing,My horse hit the gate and lost all chance.BUT Ill be back to fight another day.
I have been there several times and also think the setup is less than ideal. The horses are saddled inside , pretty much out of view, so you don't see its behaviour. The ring is small, when a few horses lag behing the others in coming out, the others have to stop and do tight circles with their horses and it aint that wide. The connections sometimes stand outside of the fountain area too where the horses are walking. It reminds me of those circus shows where the elephants are trunk to tail. You are correct about it being scary with all the people standing/sitting around the ring. If there is alot of noise and a nervous horse, lookout. About the ramp and rubber, good in stalls, but for the ramp and ring ? When it gets wet, with steel shoes , going up a ramp, with lots of people and noise? ?
Then there is the seating question. Lots of older folks sitting around the ring who are less than spry. There isnot enough room between rows for people to get by (think airline seats). Trackside, since the apron is not graded, but flat, it is hard to follow the race with binocs( think movie theaters without the graded elevation of seats), you see lots of the backs of heads. Of course you can watch the big screen TV, but hey, I came to see the live product not watch tv. The track took care of the horsemen, the backside workers and the well heeled upscale set, but not the everyday joe / core client. When they first opened they charged $10 just to get into the simulcast rooms , minus a seat. Very few people went in. Then they changed to free entry after complaints. Now , on weekdays, the vast majority of $10 trackside seats go empty . Why ? I think they got it back assward. People usually stand around the walking ring and then go to their seat, watch the pp and warmups and go bet; here they sit at the walking ring and stand watching the pp , can't see the warmups, stand around handicap the race,bet and watch a big screen tv.Thats the new paradigm.

[Valuist]

Anybody else struggling at this GP meet? This may sound paranoid but I think they've "put a lot of horses over" at the current Gulfstream meet.

[BIG49010]

I am holding my head above water, but there has been some strange results.


It seems the wildest are on the grass, like the last today. The horse wasn't as bad as his odds, but ...........

I have noted a few races on grass where photo was very close, and no photo ever posted.

[fmhealth]

Hi Point Given, I have a slightly different take on the new GP. Spending a week there in Feb I was ready for a "one & done" type affair. After reading a veritable tsunami of negativity, I thought I'd give GP one day & move on.

Boy was I pleasantly surprised. First let me throw in the caveat that I totally enjoy LV Sportsbooks. As a matter of fact I'm off to Ballys tomorrow for a few days at their SB. So that fact that many 'cappers complained that GP is nothing more than a glorified Vegas SB is actually a plus for me. Also, since I attend AP races virtually on a daily basis with short interuptions for a week or two at Delmar. I haven't seen a live race in years. I simply sit around the paddock for my prerace exam of the horses & watch the race on the TVs. Again this is easily accomplished with adequate albeit somewhat tight seating at GP.

Free parking & admisssion is also a nice plus. Although I haven't paid to go to any track in over 15 years. I think it's a plus for folks that ordinarily do. The "track tax" they add on to the DRF & the poorly concieved $10.00 charge to join their "Players Club" is a testament to the lack of marketing sense very prevalent in racing today. Once again, building rather than lowering barriers for customers. I don't get it.

In summary, I agree with the consenus that the old GP was far superior to the renovated edition. I simply find the new venue more than suitable for my limited needs.

Best of luck!!!!!!!!!!!

[Valuist]

It isn't just the longshots or the turf. I've had more problems w/the GP dirt than grass although the 5f turf race today was a bit strange, IMO. Even though it was a NW1X, there was no less than 5 multiple winners on the turf in that field. Yet somebody was hammering War Plan, a horse off a bad 4th at low odds who'd never run on turf and didn't appear bred for it (220 Tomlinson turf). Jerkens was 2 for 37 at the meet yet there he was on tote, sticking out like a sore thumb at 1-1 for most of the betting. He drifted up a tiny bit, still an underlaid $6 winner or so. On Saturday in the opener there was a horse named Bernadini who had run one time and run an ok 5th and was entered in against a couple runners who had solid figs. But Bernadini was holding at 6-5 which made no sense until the race started and he won pretty easily. Those are just 2 recent examples but it seems like the meet has had many of these headscratching results.

[point given]

Yes, there are horses that are bet down, that do not figure at all, and they win easy. This makes it very hard for pick 3 bettors. It seems that there are insider issues there, along with timer errors/malfunctions. Additionaly, the first 4-5 races each day are usually pretty low quality and unbettable to me.

Now the plant news. Heard from a few people there that the separate slots building is now cancelled, with the slots going in the south clubhouse as of April 2nd. Then the planned grandstand for the north side of the clubhouse, where the tent is located, is now cancelled as well. A condominium building to replace it. News just gets worser and worser ! :bang:

[BIG49010]

I agree the turf sprint looked tilt today, I played the horse that ran second based on an angle I had for S. Lake, and he ran better than he showed on paper which was what I was angling for, but I was suprised when the Jerkens horse beat me.

The two Mott 3rd time Starters today was interesting also, with the longer of the two winning, and the last minute bet down to 9/2 from 6-1.

On Saturday, did you also notice the late action on the Second Starter of Dutrows. They new he was live, LOL


I have a friend that swore off GP because he is a Pick 3 / 4 bettor. I bet strictly to win

[Valuist]

I think you two hit the nail on the head. The P3 is my favorite wager and these bizarre bet-down action horses have been running big. I think I may play Santa Anita next winter.

I did notice the late betdown action in that race Saturday. I wasn't overly surprised because it is Dutrow and if he entered a camel you'd have to at least consider it a mild contender (of course its all in the oats and hay).

I thought there was potential for some game-playing in one of the maiden claimers yesterday. Coa flew in from NY to ride GP yesterday and his livest mount was on a mdn claimer for Sandy Goldfarb, who I believe Dutrow usually trains for. But it was Henry Collazo training this one and Dutrow had a two horse entry but Prado wasn't riding either one. Looked like a good race to pass or toss a dart and some 20-1 shot ended up winning.

[point given]

I think coa comes down each week or two,to visit family in the area. He has a few mounts, probably to claim expenses for work on tax.

[BIG49010]

Amazing that Coa ran second on Starship Skywalker
the horse looked like he was going to breakdown in the post parade.
Coa has some big stones!! I will be surprised if this one ever sails again, and based on the figs the horse ran in his previous race and nobody claims. Horseman were wise to this one.

[BIG49010]

P.S. THE WEDNESDAY CARD IS SO BAD I AM TAKING THE DAY OFF !!!


I CAN SEE TAKING A BATH ON THIS BABY!

[point given]

[QUOTE=BIG49010]P.S. THE WEDNESDAY CARD IS SO BAD I AM TAKING THE DAY OFF !!!


Ah, Gulfstream on a Wacky Wednesday ! Welcome to the new gulfstream park, the new paradigm in racing !!! :rolleyes: Take yerself out for a nice $12 burger to celebrate !

[BIG49010]

Thursday and Friday, are not much better! Hoping for a decent Saturday and Sunday.:jump:

[BIG49010]

P.S. These guys are looking for a huge Pick 6 Carryover, to boost their profits, so don't be surprised if a few bombs hit today, so they have a huge carryover for Saturday.

[Valuist]

Underlay winner of the day the other day had to be Trion Georgia. Playable at 8-1? Maybe. At 3-1? No thanks. But it was business as usual.

[Niko]

I find it interesting how the Mitchell Magic that had started at Santa Anita pre detention barn days has been brought to Gulfstream the last two years. Although he shouldn't be put by himself it's as good a example as any.

I've had a harder time at Gulfstream the last two years but it could be for a variety of reasons.

Related but unrelated I've found that I no longer avoid the supposed cheats in Derby races or the Breeders cup anymore. It may be my imagination but two years ago I perceived a change and it really helped me in last years Breeders Cup and some of the other big races. I believe, rightly or wrongly based on observatiion, that the testing is no longer a negative influence as it has been in the past. They have either found a new design (reference Balco for how they can constantly change to avoid detection) or have found a way to influence the cycle and time it stays in the system. As always I'm sure it's combined with good horsemanship because the drugs can't do it by themselves. Could be the ghosts or could be the same type of ghosts that Barry Bonds has. Anyway I'm leery. Go with the big betdowns or stay out of those races? The only way it'll stop is if the handle will go down and in this case Mullins was right, it won't happen. People are going to gamble.

[BIG49010]

I find Mitchell to be rather easy to catch, the blinkers he puts on every horse he claims only do so much. LOL Some of the move ups are easy throw outs because the horses just don't have it, I don't care what you give them. Take a look at the horse he ran in the 8th on Friday at GP, that his crew betdown. It helped the price on the Lake horse.

Nice GP card today, looks like a Pletcher Saturday.

[oddswizard]

I loved the old Gulfstream. I am looking forward to visiting the new Gulfstream. As a former thoroughbred owner I was shocked at the conditions on the backside for the workers such as the grooms. Finally Gulfstream has done something about it. Beautiful article in the latest Horseplayer magazine on how Gulfsteam has built dorm type facilites for the grooms and backside workers. Private rooms with full facilities for both single and married couples. Knowing for years how the backside personel were treated as 2nd class, this article brought tears to my eyes. It is about time and congrats to Gulfsteam. It has restored my faith in race track management.

[karlskorner]

When you go to Gulfstream, come in off Hallendale Beach Blvd, rather than US-1, look to your left and you will see what the article is talking about, looks like a high class Condo area. The road leads you to the parking area.

[46zilzal]

Excuse me for a silly mistake. I must be getting dyslexic. Everytime I see your handle it comes out Kwashiorkor which is a childhood disorder caused by lack of nutrients, including protein in the diet. British pediatrician Cicely D. Williams introduced the name into international scientific circles in her 1935 Lancet article1. The name is derived from one of the Kwa languages of coastal Ghana and means "the one who is displaced" reflecting the development of the condition in the older child who has been weaned from the breast once a new sibling is born.