More Stronach and Political Buffoonery

[alysheba88]

http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16034926&BRD=1169&PAG=740&dept_id=349537&rfi=6

[alysheba88]

People need to take note of this nonsense. These same clueless political appointees, who dont know what takeout is, are going to be deciding New Yorks future. People can bash NYRA all they want but do you want these political hacks making decisions? To say nothing of the idiot Stronach who has single handidly ruined Gulfstream, loses hundreds of millions on his various escapades, and now wants his incompetent hands on Saratoga. Where he will turn it into a food court. This is some sad sad stuff.

[Figman]

Here is the Bennett Liebman speech. Seems quite informative to me. The reason for the caps is that it is an exact copy of the material Mr. Liebman had in front of him while giving the speech....and he didn't SHOUT!
http://tinyurl.com/7u4rn

[alysheba88]

What did you find informative?

[PaceAdvantage]

Required reading for McSchell (emphasis mine):

Things got even scarier when the team from Magna Entertainment Corporation took the stage. Company suits, including chairman Frank Stronach, made it clear there was nothing wrong with New York racing that a little free enterprise couldn't fix.

There was talk of 'regulation reform' and 'expanding the entertainment offering.' At one point Stronach, perhaps envisioning Saratoga Race Course as a giant, year-round food court, said, 'How can you have great food when you're only open two months out of the year?

We should be allowed to open when we want.' Keep in mind this is coming from an organization that has lost $350 million over the past several years.

The latest track to be given the Magna 'extreme makeover' is Gulfstream Park, which opened earlier this month. Scott Davis, writing in The Blood-Horse on Jan. 14, called the result 'part Las Vegas-style sports book and part South Beach nightclub.'

The new Gulfstream is not designed for those who go to the track for the actual racing. The 14,000-seat grandstand has been razed, replaced with seating for fewer than 1,000. Horses are now saddled in a tunnel, out of sight of patrons.

The 'paddock' is a tiny, grass-less walking ring horses visit briefly before going out to the track. The apron area is a fraction of its former size.

There's no doubt the big money in racing is in simulcasting and at-home wagering.

Nevertheless, the actual races have to be run somewhere. And the places where live racing still thrives (notably Saratoga, Keeneland and Del Mar) need to be protected from those who would tamper with their success.

In spite of NYRA's problems, the best racing continues to take place in New York.

In 2004, not counting the Breeders' Cup, over 40 percent of all Grade I races (37 of 92) were run on New York tracks. Races are not arbitrarily assigned Grade I status, nor is this rating automatically renewed every year.

The fact that New York has been able to retain this many Grade I's shows the state has continued to attract the best horses.

These races, and the tradition of excellence they represent, are at the heart of what's at stake now in New York. Even Saratoga would not survive long as it is without a reputation for featuring the best the sport has to offer. It's not clear whether Frank Stronach understands this.

In fact, last week in Albany the Magna chairman appeared to question New York's pre-eminence when he said, 'I have great respect for (NYRA president) Charlie Hayward, but if New York racing is so great, how come there aren't more New York-breds running?'

Is Stronach, an Eclipse Award-winning owner and breeder, confused about the relationship between the state's racing and breeding programs? Would he figure it out if he were awarded the next franchise?

Given a chance, would Magna turn Saratoga into a combination nightclub and Las Vegas sports book?

Tom McSchell insulted the little guy for his opinion on Gulfstream. Perhaps he wants to take a shot at this upstate writer for his opinion as well?

[Figman]

Alysheba
Either you are a great history buff OR comprehension is not one of your stronger abilities.

Quick, what was the previous name for Belmont Park?

In 1963 for 210 days Aqueduct averaged 30,000 bettors per day and was compared to what the NY Yankees drew that year. What did the Yankees draw for attendence in 1963?

When Brooklyn has a population of 7,000, how many people attended the ECLIPSE-HENRY match race held there?

It was an education in horse racing history listening to Mr. Liebman.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Even though this thread is aimed directly at Tom (McSchell Racing) Schell, hopely I may reply.
Stronach has always focused on what his agenda is, whether or not you agree with him. What that means depends on your viewpoint.
Enough of his ideas have been turned into brick and morter and controlling entities long enough to assess. IMHO his projects work best when as little as possible is micromanaged from corparate offices and the experts are allowed to do their thing.

[PaceAdvantage]

This entire thread is not aimed at Tom. Only my reply is....

I'm curious what Tom's opinion of this newspaper reporter is after a report such as this. Perhaps he will criticize this reporter's "silk suit" as well......

[Indulto]

Our worst fears could be realized if no one comes up with a way to survey and present the wishes of the overwhelming majority of participants to the undistracted attention of the politicians involved.

If FNYR are really “friends,” they should be doing more about creating RFP language to ensure that the traditions and other assets that keep NY racing supported by fans and horseman cannot be taken away at the whims of any new franchise management including a re-constituted NYRA.

The capability and resources they have employed to influence opinion up to now needs to be redirected toward protecting NY racing assets and ensuring that the voices and interests of the fan/customer/horseman/industry worker are heard. It’s time for Tim Smith to step up and prove beyond any doubt that he’s someone of real substance and not just a tool for powerful interests. Then he can run for Governor. ;)

[the little guy]

Here is the Bennett Liebman speech. Seems quite informative to me. The reason for the caps is that it is an exact copy of the material Mr. Liebman had in front of him while giving the speech....and he didn't SHOUT!
http://tinyurl.com/7u4rn

What am I missing? I don't see anyone knocking Ben, and you know I would defend him if anyone was.

[alysheba88]

Alysheba
Either you are a great history buff OR comprehension is not one of your stronger abilities.

Quick, what was the previous name for Belmont Park?

In 1963 for 210 days Aqueduct averaged 30,000 bettors per day and was compared to what the NY Yankees drew that year. What did the Yankees draw for attendence in 1963?

When Brooklyn has a population of 7,000, how many people attended the ECLIPSE-HENRY match race held there?

It was an education in horse racing history listening to Mr. Liebman.


You say something is informative and I ask you why and somehow that shows lack of comprehension?

Guess I will be called arrogant if I say knew all that- which I did. Boxing, baseball and horse racing were THE sports for a long while. My point in starting this thread was exposing those who could very well ruin racing in NY

[karlskorner]

The future of "live" horse racing is dead, compare the daily attendance at the 3 NY tracks for the past 5 generations and what it is today. The future of horse racing is in simulcalsting. The future of us who attend live horse racing daily is slowly disappearing. 95 percent of the members of this board are simulcasting players. Why bother building a grandstand/clubhouse to accomadate 10 thousand patrons, when only 3 thousand attend, why bother giving space to the media, when the media is slowly opting to reduce coverage of horse racing. Mr. Beyer ( and others ) in his recent article lauded the wonders of simulcasting, yet Mr. Beyer, the little guy and others who attended GP for a couple of days found fault with a 1/2 finished project. I for one am living with whats offered at GP ( hell of a lot betther than last year sitting under a banyan tree and avoiding bird droppings ) and I can wait until the project is finished before I give an opinion. The same people who are complaing about the $10.00 charge are willing to pay $50.00 ( and more ) for a decent seat at a football game. I think Mr. Stronach sees the future and those complaing are living in the past.

[rrbauer]

Keep in mind a few facts:
1. You and me don't count where this game is concerned so we can RANT until the cows come home and it doesn't matter one iota.
2. The number of politicians it takes to change a lightbulb.
3. The number of racetrack-related resort destinations that Frank Stronach has promised.
4. The number of racetrack-related resort destinations that Frank Stronach has delivered.
5. There is too much racing.
6. There are too many racing days.
7. Racing can't compete with its competition....it never could, it's just that for all of those years it was the only gambling-related game in town.
8. Takeout is so high that but a few can play the horses and show a consistent profit (and some of those profits come from bet rebates).
9. Breakage is a sin (or, at least a crime).
10. Getting old sucks. Since most horseplayers are getting old, then being a horseplayer must suck.

Think I'll go post this over on the courthouse lawn....right next to the Ten Commandments!

[Ron]

The future of "live" horse racing is dead, compare the daily attendance at the 3 NY tracks for the past 5 generations and what it is today. The future of horse racing is in simulcalsting. The future of us who attend live horse racing daily is slowly disappearing. 95 percent of the members of this board are simulcasting players. Why bother building a grandstand/clubhouse to accomadate 10 thousand patrons, when only 3 thousand attend, why bother giving space to the media, when the media is slowly opting to reduce coverage of horse racing. Mr. Beyer ( and others ) in his recent article lauded the wonders of simulcasting, yet Mr. Beyer, the little guy and others who attended GP for a couple of days found fault with a 1/2 finished project. I for one am living with whats offered at GP ( hell of a lot betther than last year sitting under a banyan tree and avoiding bird droppings ) and I can wait until the project is finished before I give an opinion. The same people who are complaing about the $10.00 charge are willing to pay $50.00 ( and more ) for a decent seat at a football game. I think Mr. Stronach sees the future and those complaing are living in the past.

There isn't an attendance problem at Saratoga.

[the little guy]

I think one of the biggest problems in this issue are the personal baggage people are carrying.

I dislike Frank Stronach. His ' my way or the highway " approach is something I loathe and consider to be a road to failure. However, I do not necessarily want him to fail. I love racing, and as Stronach has spent a great deal of his shareholder's money on racetracks, I'm almost forced to root for him. I do believe racing would be far better off without him, but that's a pipedream, at least for now, so I am stuck with hoping that one way or another he, at least occasionally, does the right thing.

I do not think that everything he did at Gulfstream is wrong. I do agree that simulcasting is the way of the future in racing and tracks should be built smaller and with simulcasting in mind. However, this does not have to be done at the exclusion of safety and the interests of fans who still enjoy the live racing experience. It is my opinion after attending Gulfstream that it is a poor place to enjoy an outside racing experience. That does not mean that I believe everything about the place is bad, nor does it mean that I don't understand those that like the new Gulfstream, but I do believe that had Stronach listened to others in his construction of this new plant things would have been a little more generally fan friendly.

Disliking Gulfstream is NOT tied to my dislike of Frank Stronach, as he's here like it or not, and believe it or not, I was hoping to be attending Gulfstream for many years to come. Unfortunately that won't be happening.

[Tom]

Frankee thinks there aren' t enough NY Breds running!

Yikes! :eek:

This man needs help. He is delusional!

There are FAR too many NY Breds now - keep breeding this bunch of crap and the Arabians and Mules will be taking over Saratoga! :D

I will never, ever, take anything this man says seriously again. Never.


As to simulcasting being the future, let me add that if the tracks themselves would wake up and learn the definition of customer, they might draw a few more people. Most track I have been too ( all track?) have serious deficiencies when it comes to customer service. Most have no clue what their customers want or need and most could care less. Ironically, most of what pissed off people could be fixed quckly and cheaply, if only tracks would hire some people who listen. They bring low attendence on themselves.

I was not kidding in another thread when I said Delaware North (FL) might improve things at NYRA. They have really bent over backwards in the last few years to improve CS. The market here is just too small to draw huge crowds ( aside from the huge crowds of NYBreds!:eek: )

[Steve 'StatMan']

The same people who are complaing about the $10.00 charge are willing to pay $50.00 ( and more ) for a decent seat at a football game.

If football was 5 days a week like racing, how many would pay $50.00 x 5 = $250.00 a week, for a 40-50 week season? Some might be willing to pay for an 8-home game football season. But horse racing is very different. For horse racing to succeed, they need fans to attend more than once or twice a year, for the betting churn. Price racing, concessions and parking at Football, Baseball, etc. prices and you might have fans attending once or twice a year. MLB in many markets can get 20,000+ fans to a game, but many are not the same 20,000 fans over and over again, but those that attend either a 1-2 games, or maybe a handfull of games a year. NFL can get 40,000-60,000 fans, more might be season ticket holders, but there is a limited number of games, far fewer than MLB, or horse racing dates, etc.

If racing were able to draw 20,000 fans on a daily basis, that might be different.

Plus, at least the daily purses (at a non-racino) are based on the amount of money bet, not the money earned from concession, admission and parking fees. NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL etc. pay their talent's enormous salaries based on the money earned from many all those other sources, without revenue from wagering.

[karlskorner]

Getting old does not suck, it's great. While the majority of this board are concerned with downsizing, will their jobs be there tomorrow, meeting the mortgagte/car payments next month etc. you and I are enjoying the fruits of our past. From the land of milk and honey, think about that.

[alysheba88]

The future of "live" horse racing is dead, compare the daily attendance at the 3 NY tracks for the past 5 generations and what it is today. The future of horse racing is in simulcalsting. The future of us who attend live horse racing daily is slowly disappearing. 95 percent of the members of this board are simulcasting players. Why bother building a grandstand/clubhouse to accomadate 10 thousand patrons, when only 3 thousand attend, why bother giving space to the media, when the media is slowly opting to reduce coverage of horse racing. Mr. Beyer ( and others ) in his recent article lauded the wonders of simulcasting, yet Mr. Beyer, the little guy and others who attended GP for a couple of days found fault with a 1/2 finished project. I for one am living with whats offered at GP ( hell of a lot betther than last year sitting under a banyan tree and avoiding bird droppings ) and I can wait until the project is finished before I give an opinion. The same people who are complaing about the $10.00 charge are willing to pay $50.00 ( and more ) for a decent seat at a football game. I think Mr. Stronach sees the future and those complaing are living in the past.

At some tracks it is. But not all. And thats a very key point. DelMar, Saratoga, Keeneland, Monmouth even, and some other places still draw well. There are players who frequent those tracks who are not full time players and would not and do not play simulcast. Should they just be shown the door? Belmont is a phenomenal place to see the races. Place is huge. Sure its disappointing that so few go and experience it live, but from my point of view its great. Have phenomenal views everywhere I go. If they got rid of all the seats outside and upstairs and changed the paddock would I go? No.

Certain facilities, like the Meadowlands are ideal set ups for simulcast facilities. Gulfstream, with its location, meeting dates and quality of racing should not be a simulcast joint. There is a happy medium here which I see few discuss. Its either the "old Gulfstream" or the new one. Dont people understand there is a middle ground somewhere?

[cj]

The same people who are complaing about the $10.00 charge are willing to pay $50.00

Bad analogy! With horse racing, you already pay a LARGE fee every time you place a bet. To charge people for anything other than betting and food is ludicrous. Imagine going to Vegas, and they tell you it costs $10 to sit at the $50 minimum table. I'm sure that would go over well.

[the little guy]

Dont people understand there is a middle ground somewhere?

I couldn't agree more and have been trying to get that exact point across. Doing one does not have to preclude the other.

[karlskorner]

Thats the problem, football etc. is for the weekend, when nobody is working. With this board as an example, 95 percent have 5 day a week jobs, play the races from home or while hiding in their cubicle out of sight from their employer. Those unemployed or retired make up your weekday crowd. This ain't going to change. The "weekend warrior" is not going to change racing, he may complain about the food, cost of DRF, cost of attendance etc. but he is not the answer to the problem of the future of horseracing. Just maybe Mr. Stonach's ideas for racing may be right. At least give him a chance, it's his money.

[rrbauer]

Getting old does not suck, it's great. While the majority of this board are concerned with downsizing, will their jobs be there tomorrow, meeting the mortgagte/car payments next month etc. you and I are enjoying the fruits of our past. From the land of milk and honey, think about that.

Sorry Karl but getting old DOES suck....now, not working, that's great!

[saratoga guy]

Those unemployed or retired make up your weekday crowd. This ain't going to change.

So then, charging $10 minimum for an inside or under cover seat to those with no income or fixed income is a good idea?

[garyoz]

Those who wager are paying a "hidden" charge in the form of the takeout, About 20% not including breakage. In the casinos the vig is a lot less and they provide free drinks and other comps. The track owners and politicians are clueless. The problem isn't with the sport, it is with the negative expectation of the outcome--casinos at least try to make you feel good about yourself and the experience.

[Indulto]

New York lobbyists set to exit By MATT HEGARTY 02/01/2006
http://www.drf.com/news/article/71917.html (http://www.drf.com/news/article/71917.html)

“Friends of New York Racing, a horse racing lobbying group, will fold up its operations at the beginning of March . . .

The lobbying group has been funded by a variety of national and local horse racing groups, including several companies that are expected to bid on the NYRA franchise. Smith said the "dissolution" of Friends of New York Racing would allow those groups, which include Magna Entertainment Corp. and Churchill Downs Inc., to begin seeking the franchise through their own political strategies. . . .

Smith also said that he expected to begin seeking funds and support for a new horse racing advocacy group that would represent the entire New York racing industry, including harness tracks and offtrack betting corporations. The group would, ideally, produce educational materials about racing and represent the industry in the legislature, Smith said."

[Indulto]

FNYR Wraps Up Business; Smith Goes to 'Sidelines' http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=32014 (http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=32014)

“. . . Smith said the state should step in and create some sort of body to represent the various interests of the racing industry in New York, a plan that would be a highly unusual move for government. Smith said the state has a vested interest in ensuring the future of the racing industry, and an advocacy group like the one he proposed could try to get around the usual competing interests that now divide the industry. . . .

For his part, Smith said he plans to continue working voluntarily in the weeks ahead to help publish a series of recommendations for the legislature to consider to make major changes in the state's racing laws. Smith said he plans to spend more time at his Florida home, but insists he is not walking away from New York racing. "I'm not going to abandon the racing reform effort, but for a time I'm going to go to the sidelines," he said.

When asked if he would be interested in becoming a part of a franchise bidding team, Smith said: "I'm actively looking to be a civilian and a free agent. I'm not planning on joining any full-time effort in any bidding entity. I'm just going to be inclined to be supportive of whichever group or groups is most likely to implement our recommendations." Smith said had no "present plans" to join any bidding effort. . . .”