Outrage Builds in Mideast Over Cartoons

[highnote]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060130/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_prophet_drawings

I've written a couple of posts recently about how our beliefs are the forces that drive our behaviors and how when people with different belief systems encounter each other problems can arise when they don't understand each other's beliefs.

This story from Yahoo about Middle East outrage over the publication of cartoons which depict Muhammad is a good example.

I just learned from reading this story that it is an "Islamic tradition that bars any depiction of the prophet, favorable or otherwise."

If I would have drawn a picture of Muhammad -- even if I was trying to be complimentary (which I always would) -- I would offend Muslims. Hopefully, rather than take offense, they would excuse my ignorance and point out to me their tradition rather than burn the flag of my country of boycott my company's products. And then I certainly wouldn't do it again.

I have read that some Jews never spell the word God. They will spell His name G*d or some other way because their belief is that the spelling of his name does not do Him enough justice.

Although that's not my belief, I certainly respect their belief. But I don't expect them to get upset with me because I spell God the way I do. All I can do is do my best not to spell His name in their presence or in their journals, or whatever.

The Yahoo article quotes several people that say they are insulted by these depictions of Muhammad. I also do not share their beliefs about insults.

I do not think anything or anyone can insult me. My belief is that I can only be insulted if I choose to be insulted. I simply choose not to be insulted.

I forget where I heard these words of wisdom, but I've always liked them:

"If someone gives you a gift and you do not accept it then who owns the gift?"

The same goes for insults.

[Tom]

Good thing I can't drawe worth beans! :rolleyes:

I got a few that would start WWIII if they ever got printed!

[kenwoodallpromos]

They have the attitude that they are not worthy to look on the face of god. Believing in a higher power is one thing, but lowering oneself to do it is uneccesary. Write, spell, draw pictures, whatever you want!

[highnote]

They have the attitude that they are not worthy to look on the face of god. Believing in a higher power is one thing, but lowering oneself to do it is uneccesary. Write, spell, draw pictures, whatever you want!

That is my belief, too. This is the problem. I am tolerant and respectful of other people's beliefs. But I get a little upset when I am not shown the same respect for mine.

[Bobby]

Good thing I can't drawe worth beans! :rolleyes:

I got a few that would start WWIII if they ever got printed!


I bet you do!!!! :lol: :lol:

[JustRalph]

Here you go Tom! Go for it! I am sure you can caption this puppy with some verbal delight..............


http://www.columbuscool.com/calvin_hobbes_640_480.jpg

[twindouble]

That is my belief, too. This is the problem. I am tolerant and respectful of other people's beliefs. But I get a little upset when I am not shown the same respect for mine.


I wouldn't let that upset you, when I "believe" something there's no reason for me to get upset with people that don't agree or show respect. What I believe is just important to me and no one else. I'll offer some advice, make my belief known, they can take it or leave it. What I can say is, if my belief is on solid ground it will take hold with others in time. Same goes for excepting others thoughts and beliefs, it's good to have an open mind. I do draw a line on the latter because some beliefs can be down right dangerous, crazy, off the wall, so I'll show no respect for them. Example, denying you child medical care that would result in his or her death. :bang:


T.D.

[Tom]

hehehe....yesserie!

But, People know who I am and where I live.....hehehe I'll pass....in public.
Check your PMs.

[Bobby]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

You guys

[IBCNU]

Yeah, you just have to love those religions that teach that if you are not one of the "faithful", you are essentailly an expendable infidel whose sole purpose is to eighther be converted or conquered.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Here you go Tom! Go for it! I am sure you can caption this puppy with some verbal delight..............


http://www.columbuscool.com/calvin_hobbes_640_480.jpg

To look like Calvin, floss like Calvin.
To look like Hobbes, don't floss, like Hobbes.

[cryptic1]

Islamic hypocrites. The media and press in the muslim countries have
vilified the american presidents and english royalty for years. Their papers
are full of the crudest and ugliest caricatures of the west, yet they have
the audacity to complain about some cartoons. I won't even mention
the despicable anti semetic crap that is promulgated in the media. None of
this is a recent occurence either. There has been a double standard for
years, but the west has ignored it, because of their need for oil and the
pervasive moral relativism that permeates many of the governments and
academia of the west. I find it repulsive that Clinton was quoted today
apologizing for the intolerance shown by these cartoons. Clinton's remarks
are an indication of the affects of moral relativism. It is self defeating to
concede the moral highground to the duplicitous.

cryptic1

[toetoe]

Their zeal, I mean mania, I mean psychosis, I mean belief, their problem. If someone wipes himself with his bare hand, EW! I'm of-frigging-fended. Must I provide documented law, or is it enough that I woke up one morning just HATING it?
At this point, will the handwringers please weigh in with the "NOW do you see why they all hate us?" tripe?

[GaryG]

Their zeal, I mean mania, I mean psychosis, I mean belief, their problem. If someone wipes himself with his bare hand, EW! I'm of-frigging-fended. Must I provide documented law, or is it enough that I woke up one morning just HATING it?
At this point, will the handwringers please weigh in with the "NOW do you see why they all hate us?" tripe?I hope you didn't type this with your left hand...

[JustRalph]

I hope you didn't type this with your left hand...:lol: :lol: :lol:

[rrpic6]

Their zeal, I mean mania, I mean psychosis, I mean belief, their problem. If someone wipes himself with his bare hand, EW! I'm of-frigging-fended. Must I provide documented law, or is it enough that I woke up one morning just HATING it?
At this point, will the handwringers please weigh in with the "NOW do you see why they all hate us?" tripe?

How do they fall for "the 17 virgins waiting in heaven" BS? The last time I saw 17 virgins was when I had to wash windows at the Ursuline Nun's Rectory in 8th Grade.

[highnote]

Maybe we should start sharing the idea that if you're a good Christian or Jew who leads a long, happy, productive life you'll go to the afterlife with 125 virgins. Then they will think, hey, wait a second, we live a short, destructive life and we only get 70? :D

[JustRalph]

Who the Hell wants Virgins? Get real...........can you imagine that the whole damn middle east is screwed up because these idiots can't get over their sexual hangups?

Dr. Ruth should be our ambassador to the middle east. :D

[highnote]

Who the Hell wants Virgins? Get real...........can you imagine that the whole damn middle east is screwed up because these idiots can't get over their sexual hangups?

Dr. Ruth should be our ambassador to the middle east. :D


Yeah. I know. Dennis Miller had a funny story about this. He said something to the effect... "Listen, can I tell you something? The 70 virgins thing is overdone because around four or five virgins in, you're looking for a pro." :lol:

[hcap]

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0130-04.htm

toetoe

If someone wipes himself with his bare hand, EW! I'm of-frigging-fended.
...At this point, will the handwringers please weigh in with the "NOW do you see why they all hate us?" tripe?
"Aya was shot in the neck and stomach. Her stomach was hanging out," said the child's mother, Aisha. "We have no idea why she went there but she was a child. She was so small. She was nine years old. She didn't wear a hijab. It was clear she was just a young girl. This is hatred."

Read the article. Try wiping away this "tripe" if you can.
I know war is war. Shit happens. Tough shit toe?

[Hosshead]

" In Japan, the Yokohama Tire Company recalled hundreds of tires that it had placed on Jeep Grand Cherokees designated for Brunei, after a Brunei holy man discovered that the tire tread resembled a passage from the Koran deemed offensive to Islam."

" >Yokohama sold tires in Saudi Arabia whos
computer designed tread had a sqiggle that looked like allah written
in arabic. Allahs name was being rubbed in the dirt
millions of times a day. The muslims hit the roof. "

" > Nike made a sneaker with a version of the nike swoosh
that looked like, can you guess?
Muslims classify body parts into honorable and dishonorable categories.
The foot is a dishonorable part. Allahs name was put on lots of
dishonorable parts and covered with dirty dust besides.
The muslims went on a rampage until Nike withdrew the sneakers. "

[rastajenk]

Commondreams.org claims to represent the "progressive community." Just what does that community wish to progress towards? It seems to embrace every backwards looking, hate-filled, racist ideology it can find. The lead article right now is by all-time loon Robert Fisk. The progressive community is conservative in the sense that it seeks to preserve a time and place where tyranny provides stability, and the only good Jew is a dead Jew. What kind of skewed thinking regards that as progress?

[hcap]

Every once in a while we and/or our morally superior allies screw up royally.
Maybe more than once in a while.

Did you hear about Aya on fox or drudge? These things only speed the cycle of violence.

Your entitled to your skewed back ass opinion v Progressives.
Needless to say you have no idea what your talking about.

Objections to cartoons or tires show the fundies of Islam are loonies. That's one thing. Mainstream Muslims objectioning to 9 year old girls being disembowled by Israeli soldiers are another.

Confusing the fringe with mainstream is a kneejerk reaction based on fear.

[rastajenk]

Nice dodge.

[hcap]

You painted "Progressive" with a pretty broad brush.

Yep, I'm just an old fashioned pinko commie jew-haiting terrorist-loving anti-american trailer park living no goodnik who should move the hell outa this perfect best of all worlds country and see if the islamofacsists would tolerate my unpatriotic non-logical bullshit and not slit my throat and then what the hell would I have to say?

Damn, dodging is so much easier than typing.

PS I would rather read Fisk than Charles "I never met a man I wouldn't torture"
Krauthammer.

[GaryG]

Yep, I'm just an old fashioned pinko commie jew-haiting terrorist-loving anti-american trailer park living no goodnik who should move the hell outa this perfect best of all worlds countryThat sounds great.....how about now?

[toetoe]

hcap,

Gather your thoughts, look in the mirror, ask yourself what your point is, and relay it to us. That is, IF you want to.
Now, somehow an innocent child paid the price for the true believers' oversensitive hackles? I don't believe it, but if it's true, it's making MY point, not YOURS.

[Steve 'StatMan']

" In Japan, the Yokohama Tire Company recalled hundreds of tires that it had placed on Jeep Grand Cherokees designated for Brunei, after a Brunei holy man discovered that the tire tread resembled a passage from the Koran deemed offensive to Islam."

" >Yokohama sold tires in Saudi Arabia whos
computer designed tread had a sqiggle that looked like allah written
in arabic. Allahs name was being rubbed in the dirt
millions of times a day. The muslims hit the roof. "



Wow. "Not 'the name of Allah' (well, a tire pattern similar to one languages spelling and font of his name) keeps travelers safe! It's a Miracle!" Now 'everywhere you drive, you see Allah's name proclaimed!". No. Not even "Gee, our writing looks like tire treads". It's "Allahs name is being rubbed in the dirt," when it's just a pattern that looks similarly. Geeze. They can't just consider a tire tread as just a tire tread. Some actually CHOOSE to be offended, and then incite the masses who obviously WANT to be incited.

I just bought new tires a few weeks ago. Gee, wonder what the tread says. :rolleyes: I've got some ideas what it should say, the nicest of which is:
"If you're reading this tire track, you must be mad!"

[toetoe]

Steve,

Imagine my reverent wonder when I discovered that my dessert was in its "Apple Pie Allah Mode." Godless heathen that I am, I ate it anyway. No press conference, no guest-consultant shot on Jim Lehrer, no auction on ebay, I just ATE it. What a dope. :faint:

Apologies for the quality of my humor lately. It's been down around factor 2L, i.e., only twice as funny as Jay Leno's material, and I recognize that as DREADFUL. Maybe a layoff is in order.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Steve,

Imagine my reverent wonder when I discovered that my dessert was in its "Apple Pie Allah Mode." Godless heathen that I am, I ate it anyway. No press conference, no guest-consultant shot on Jim Lehrer, no auction on ebay, I just ATE it. What a dope. :faint:

Apologies for the quality of my humor lately. It's been down around factor 2L, i.e., only twice as funny as Jay Leno's material, and I recognize that as DREADFUL. Maybe a layoff is in order.

Did you order it allah carte, or a la carte?

[Steve 'StatMan']

Good thing we're not joking about this at a Brunei train station, or the train conductor might hit us with his 'allah board'. :rolleyes:

[lsbets]

Good thing we're not joking about this at a Brunei train station, or the train conductor might hit us with his 'allah board'. :rolleyes:

Steve, you've had some bad ones, but that might be the worst! :cool:

[toetoe]

Oh, so now you're one of the Insultin' of Brunei? :D

At the cough drop stand, the a la carte crowd took cuts in front of the hoarse. :confused:

[toetoe]

God dead? Forget the existentialists and their ruminations. Steve's conductor muses more relevantly, "Allah bored?" :ThmbUp:

[JustRalph]

Muslims classify body parts into honorable and dishonorable categories. The foot is a dishonorable part. Allahs name was put on lots of dishonorable parts and covered with dirty dust besides.
The muslims went on a rampage until Nike withdrew the sneakers. "

I didn't know that. Very funny actually. What side of the honor dictate is "Little Ralph" on?

[highnote]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060201/ap_on_re_eu/prophet_drawings;_ylt=Ag1oyXoi9XPCJixYYefjEmEUewgF ;_ylu=X3oDMTA4NTMzazIyBHNlYwMxNjk2

I'm glad these newspapers are standing up for freedom of expression. People may not like what is printed, but as far as I'm concerned there is an unalienable right to freedom of expression.

I love this quote from the article:

Mohammed Bechari, president of the National Federation of the Muslims of France, said his group would start legal proceedings against France Soir because of "these pictures that have disturbed us, and that are still hurting the feelings of 1.2 billion Muslims."

Someone said my mother wears army boots. I'm starting legal proceedings. That'll be the last time the son of a bitch says anything bad about my mother. :bang: :bang: :bang:

[toetoe]

When I'm pasted to a subway wall by a pipe bomb, I'll remember to tell my wife to pursue the "hurt feelings" line. It may supersede the "cost of doing Allah's business" excuse. :jump:

[lsbets]

Looks like they burned a couple of European embassies in Syria today because of the cartoons. Makes this 1997 Onion spook seem pretty prescient:

"As a crazed Palestinian gunman, I feel hurt by the negative portrayal of my people in the media," said al Hamad, 31, a Hebron-area terrorist maniac. "None of us should have to live with stereotyping and ignorance."

He then began screaming and firing into a busload of Israeli schoolchildren.

"It hurts that in this supposedly enlightened day and age, people still make assumptions about other people," al Hamad said. "We should not rely on simple generalizations. Each crazed Palestinian gunman is an individual."

Al Hamad said that he himself has often been unfairly stereotyped. "Any time I enter a crowded temple with fully loaded AK-47s in both hands, people just assume I'm going to open fire," he said. "That really hurts."

"Yes, I sometimes do gun people down in the name of the One True God," he noted. "But there is so much more to me."

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39190

[toetoe]

LS,

I love the post, and I think you meant "Onion spoof." The Onion is a op/ed publication, right? :ThmbUp:

[lsbets]

Yes, I meant spoof. The Onion has some really funny stuff on its site - not op/ed, just humor.

[Tom]

Interesting that CNN - on the Paula Zahn show - showed the cartoon featuring the injured GI but pixeled out the one about mohamed. CNN's colors were showing this week.

Freedom of the press......*sigh* nowhere in the ammendment is "intergrity" mentioned. I guess this is why.

[Tom]

Catch the news stories about the major riots and burnings by those friendly muslems in Eurabia?

Still think we are dealing with just goup of extremists?

[highnote]

I have yet to see those cartoons myself. Anyone seen them?

[highnote]

I have yet to see those cartoons myself. Anyone seen them?

I finally found them on Wikipedia.

By the way, this editorial seems pretty good:

http://www2.rnw.nl/rnw/en/currentaffairs/ned060204?view=Standard

[ljb]

Interesting that CNN - on the Paula Zahn show - showed the cartoon featuring the injured GI but pixeled out the one about mohamed. CNN's colors were showing this week.

Freedom of the press......*sigh* nowhere in the ammendment is "intergrity" mentioned. I guess this is why.
Tom,
Not many equate Rummy with Mohamed. What coverage has Faux carried on this? They wouldn't even show the Rummy cartoon.

[Tom]

Tom,
Not many equate Rummy with Mohamed. What coverage has Faux carried on this? They wouldn't even show the Rummy cartoon.

The point is, CNN decided to show one and not the other. I found it deeply disgusting depicting the soldier like that..I found the other rather funny, rather true, and is most people were offended by it, too damn bad. I am not here to make muslems happy - believe, me, that is not on my list of things to do.
These same sick animals that burned down the Dannish embassy were not considered extremeists last week. Now they are. What happend next week if some poor German accidently runs over some muslem's dog? More riots, more burnings? The point is, the maohamed cartoon accurately depicts a group of deranged religious nutcases.
You deal with people like this with guns and bombs.

[ljb]

The point is, CNN decided to show one and not the other. I found it deeply disgusting depicting the soldier like that..I found the other rather funny, rather true, and is most people were offended by it, too damn bad. I am not here to make muslems happy - believe, me, that is not on my list of things to do.
These same sick animals that burned down the Dannish embassy were not considered extremeists last week. Now they are. What happend next week if some poor German accidently runs over some muslem's dog? More riots, more burnings? The point is, the maohamed cartoon accurately depicts a group of deranged religious nutcases.
You deal with people like this with guns and bombs.
Strange how you find a cartoon depicting someones God funny while you find a cartoon depicting the sec of defense as offensive. Is there also a bias in your interpretation of events ? Sorry to say this Tom but, there are many soldiers in that condition, not seeing/admitting it, is one of our problems.

[46zilzal]

CNN had one of the Saudi princes on with Wolf Blitzer and the latter showed some of the same slanted biased crap that was in Saudi papers. To his credit, he agreed both were wrong.

[JustRalph]

I find a few of these signs as revealing.........to say the least. These people are obviously of the mindset that they are going to take over Europe and other countries. They truly do want to indoctrinate us and our allies into "their way of life" I don't care about the cartoons or the reasons for this show of protest. What I do care about is what this crowd reveals about the real thinking of these people...............

http://www.columbuscool.com/rage.jpg

[lsbets]

The headlines should read:

"Violent, angry, freedom hating Muslims riot over portrayal as violent, angry freedom hating Muslims"

[46zilzal]

no one denies they are nuts

[Tom]

Strange how you find a cartoon depicting someones God funny while you find a cartoon depicting the sec of defense as offensive. Is there also a bias in your interpretation of events ? Sorry to say this Tom but, there are many soldiers in that condition, not seeing/admitting it, is one of our problems.

You miss the point. The reactions are the issue. We behaved like civilized people - they acted like animals - once again. And we are not talking extremists here. We are talking culture.

[ljb]

You miss the point. The reactions are the issue. We behaved like civilized people - they acted like animals - once again. And we are not talking extremists here. We are talking culture.
Ok, I agree with you regarding the reactions. My only point was the comparison of Mohamed with Rummy. They are not even on the same planet.
I do wonder however, what reactions would come from us if a paper had displayed cartoons with Jesus in similiar circumstance.

[Tom]

Ok, I agree with you regarding the reactions. My only point was the comparison of Mohamed with Rummy. They are not even on the same planet.
I do wonder however, what reactions would come from us if a paper had displayed cartoons with Jesus in similiar circumstance.

Ljb,
I've seen cartoons feturing Jesus and God. The reaction is different bevcause I am civilized - these animals are not.
They say they want to restore Islam's image in the world. I think they have succeeded.

And it is not Rummy I find disgusting - I find it dusgusting to use an image of
a soldier in such a way.
But then it doesn't suprise me in the least your take on things.
You probably have the terrorists +7.

[lsbets]

Fairly recent history - within the last 15 or so years - here in this country, we had the "Piss Christ" displayed as art, and more recently, there was the Virgin Mary covered in feces. There was outrage both times, and calls to stop funding the NEA. Then the counterpoint was a rigorous defense of freedom of speech and expression, ignoring the critical component of government funding of such "works of art". In the end, not much changed, and there were no riots, no art museums were burned to the ground, etc....

So, while the above examples are not of Jesus is a newspaper cartoon, they are examples of highly offensive portrayals of religious icons in this country that were not met with the same behavior we are witnessing in the Middle East.

[Tom]

? for the muslem.....


If burning an embassy is an approriate response to an offensive cartoon, what is an appropriate response to burning an embassy?

[ljb]

Ljb,
I've seen cartoons feturing Jesus and God. The reaction is different bevcause I am civilized - these animals are not.
They say they want to restore Islam's image in the world. I think they have succeeded.

And it is not Rummy I find disgusting - I find it dusgusting to use an image of
a soldier in such a way.
But then it doesn't suprise me in the least your take on things.
You probably have the terrorists +7.
Now why did you have to go and make a personal attack ? I thought we were having a discussion here. Anyway, as I mentioned there are numerous soldiers in such a way. Facing the truth does create some pain and/or disgust but, would it be better if we buried our heads in the sand and refused to admit this as one of the consequences of our actions?

[ljb]

Fairly recent history - within the last 15 or so years - here in this country, we had the "Piss Christ" displayed as art, and more recently, there was the Virgin Mary covered in feces. There was outrage both times, and calls to stop funding the NEA. Then the counterpoint was a rigorous defense of freedom of speech and expression, ignoring the critical component of government funding of such "works of art". In the end, not much changed, and there were no riots, no art museums were burned to the ground, etc....

So, while the above examples are not of Jesus is a newspaper cartoon, they are examples of highly offensive portrayals of religious icons in this country that were not met with the same behavior we are witnessing in the Middle East.
Right. I agree with both Tom and you. We react to these type things differently then the Muslims. The art you speak of was created by American citizens I believe, don't know if it came from Sudan or Lybia the reaction would have been the same.

[Tom]

Right. I agree with both Tom and you. We react to these type things differently then the Muslims. The art you speak of was created by American citizens I believe, don't know if it came from Sudan or Lybia the reaction would have been the same.

We would NOT have sunk to the islamic low level of response.
I see today they are rioting and pillaging the ferry boat company tht had the disastor last week. Seems to be a similar thread here - muslem respones are violent, uncontrolled, and animalistic.
Many showed up at the protests carrying weapons, sledge hammers, etc. They were NOT there for a non-violent protest - they were there to riot.

Curious where thier rage is when muslems attack and kill Iraqi's trying to participate in thier own government and vote???? Where was their rage when SH GASSED thousands of muslems and tortured and murdered them on a daily basis? THey should be HAPPY that he is gone.

Could it just be that the islamic agenda is more than just religous furor?

[twindouble]

We would NOT have sunk to the islamic low level of response.
I see today they are rioting and pillaging the ferry boat company tht had the disastor last week. Seems to be a similar thread here - muslem respones are violent, uncontrolled, and animalistic.
Many showed up at the protests carrying weapons, sledge hammers, etc. They were NOT there for a non-violent protest - they were there to riot.

Curious where thier rage is when muslems attack and kill Iraqi's trying to participate in thier own government and vote???? Where was their rage when SH GASSED thousands of muslems and tortured and murdered them on a daily basis? THey should be HAPPY that he is gone.

Could it just be that the islamic agenda is more than just religous furor?

Tom, go back and read my Al Sader thread. :bang:

[lsbets]

This whole thing gets nuttier. Now Iran is sponsoring a cartoon contest for revenge:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,18066746-1702,00.html?from=rss

IRAN'S largest selling newspaper announced today it was holding a contest on cartoons of the Holocaust in response to the publishing in European papers of caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed.

"It will be an international cartoon contest about the Holocaust," said Farid Mortazavi, the graphics editor for Hamshahri newspaper - which is published by Teheran's conservative municipality.

[highnote]

I'd rather see tensions diffused by this method rather than by burning down an embassy. It is still kind of a silly idea, though.

I know it's easy for me to say, but I think Muslims should take the high road.

They should explain to the world that they find these cartoons offensive and ask that others respect their religious beliefs and not print caricatures of Muhammad.

I think they would gain a lot more respect in the world.

They could learn something from Martin Luther King and Ghandi.

[lsbets]

That's pretty much what Sistani came out and said in Iraq. He said that those who are committing violence because of the cartoons are harming the image of Islam in the world. Duh!

[highnote]

Everyone should be required to watch that National Geographic special on DNA. The scientist uses DNA to show that our genes can all be traced back to a tribe in Africa -- you know the ones that make the clicking sound when they talk.

If some of these militant types took a second to realize that all humans are related maybe they would be a little more tolerant.

Of course, that won't happen any time soon. Most people don't have control over their emotions. Especially greed, jealousy, anger, resentment, etc.

[rastajenk]

Oh, man, haven't you been paying attention? They can't step back, take a deep breath, and arrive at a more rational place, because it, like everything else in that so-called religion, is forbidden. There are believers and non-believers: the believers get the goods, and the non-believers get death if they're contrary, a merciful life of servitude if they play along. It's what the new Pope was talking about recently when he wondered if Islam can co-exist with modern Western civilization. Islam is supposedly the word of God as told to Mohamet, with no room for evolution of thought, emerging circumstances, new discoveries. It is as it was, to paraphrase the previous Pope. Other religions embrace creativity and discovery, and not only keep up with changing times but are often the agents of change.

There may be Muslims more pragmatic than others, but the myth of the moderate Muslim is just that, a fool's promise. Anyone who tries to make the case for a kinder, gentler Islam is by definition apostate. It's a square peg that is never going to fit into that round hole.

[toetoe]

Swet,

The Xosa tribe? :ThmbUp:

Amazing language to hear. The guy in the film "The Gods Must Be Crazy" spoke so fast, so musically, it seemed it was fake at first.

[Turntime]

JustRalph:
In your post #49 from this thread, where did you find those pictures? I'm no handwriting expert but it seems clear that the sign from the top left hand and top right hand pictures were made by the same person (look at the letter E). Maybe they were both purchased from the same street corner vendor who sets up shop at anti-democracy protests - or maybe it's just another guy who knows how to use photoshop.

I don't doubt that the signs reflect the way that many of the protesters feel, I'm just naturally skeptical of photos in the digital age.

[Lefty]

lbj, says: Tom,
Not many equate Rummy with Mohamed. What coverage has Faux carried on this? They wouldn't even show the Rummy cartoon.
________________________
Don't you ever get tired of being wrong? The cartoon has appeared on O'Reilly and Hannity and Combs.

[Steve 'StatMan']

And the outrage has nothing to do with Rummy being in the cartoon. It's all about using an image of a maimed soldier to promote ones message, especially an anti-mission one. Nearly as bad the photo of the dead soliders in their caskets, with the picture of a smiling bush saying mission accomplished, or whatever that truly distasteful picture was posted here a while back. Some might feel the soldiers are being exploited to perform a mission, but it is truly obnixious for others to turn around and exploit them when they're injured or dead, after having given so much of themselves for the cause of our country.

[twindouble]

Oh, man, haven't you been paying attention? They can't step back, take a deep breath, and arrive at a more rational place, because it, like everything else in that so-called religion, is forbidden. There are believers and non-believers: the believers get the goods, and the non-believers get death if they're contrary, a merciful life of servitude if they play along. It's what the new Pope was talking about recently when he wondered if Islam can co-exist with modern Western civilization. Islam is supposedly the word of God as told to Mohamet, with no room for evolution of thought, emerging circumstances, new discoveries. It is as it was, to paraphrase the previous Pope. Other religions embrace creativity and discovery, and not only keep up with changing times but are often the agents of change.

There may be Muslims more pragmatic than others, but the myth of the moderate Muslim is just that, a fool's promise. Anyone who tries to make the case for a kinder, gentler Islam is by definition apostate. It's a square peg that is never going to fit into that round hole.

We better get our asses in gear and shore up our borders and get those camps ready to recieve all the muslims here that don't support us or deport the suckers. Keeping their freaking mouths shut and not demostrating again't those that are high jacking their religion, tells me they can't be trusted.

One would have to be a complete ass to think they support us in any way.


T.D.

[lsbets]

Steve - I agree that the anti-war left is quick to exploit dead and injured soldiers to get their message across, and time and again they have ignored the wishes of families who told them to take their loved ones name off their protests. However, I don't really have any problem with that cartoon. Its downright tame compared to a lot of other stuff that I've seen. I saw O'Reilly talking about the cartoon and the cartoonist last night, and he came across looking like a fool to me. Its a friggin cartoon, it was intended to outrage people to get a message across, and while I disagree with the message, the cartoon doesn't bother me. Maybe I'm starting to mellow. :D

[Lefty]

lsbets, O'Reilly talked to Ellis Hennican about the cartoon. The cartoonist himself has refused I'Reilly and Hannity, but he dis appear with Paula Zahn.

[twindouble]

Steve - I agree that the anti-war left is quick to exploit dead and injured soldiers to get their message across, and time and again they have ignored the wishes of families who told them to take their loved ones name off their protests. However, I don't really have any problem with that cartoon. Its downright tame compared to a lot of other stuff that I've seen. I saw O'Reilly talking about the cartoon and the cartoonist last night, and he came across looking like a fool to me. Its a friggin cartoon, it was intended to outrage people to get a message across, and while I disagree with the message, the cartoon doesn't bother me. Maybe I'm starting to mellow. :D

Are you saying there's no line to be drawn when it comes to political satire?

On another point, our flag represents everything we stand for so is it OK to burn the sucking thing to make a political point and not to react to it. ESP when others around the world burn it every chance they get. :mad:

T.D.

I'll add that flag is more important to me than any freaking religion out there.

[Lefty]

lsbets, O'Reilly talked to Ellis Hennican about the cartoon. The cartoonist himself has refused I'Reilly and Hannity, but he did appear with Paula Zahn.

[lsbets]

Twin - there definatly is a line to be drawn, I'm not quite sure where that line is, but in my opinion this one particular cartoon doesn't cross that line. I don't want to be put in a position of having to defend a cartoon that I don't like, because I don't like it and I don't agree with the supposed message, but it just doesn't really bother me. I've seen much worse from the anti-war crowd - in print, in protests, and on here. The other thing about it is, carrying on about the cartoon accomplishes just what the cartoonist wanted - to have people talk about it. A lot more people have seen it because of the outrage than would have seen it otherwise. The guy wanted a reaction, and he got it.

Lefty - so what if the cartoonist refused to go on O'Reilly. Who cares? He's not obligated to, and you and I both know how it would have gone. For five minutes O'Reilly would have berated him and cut him off and then smiled and said "I'll let you have the last word" and would let the guy talk as they cut away to a commercial. I found the whole attitude of "This man won't come on my show and that's wrong" to be, as O'Relly would say, "The most ridiculous item of the day." I might agree with the guy on a lot of issues, but his over inflated ego and sense of importance are annoying as can be, and normally keep me from turning on his show except for when I'm channel surfing. Last night my wife wanted to watch "Ice Skating with the Stars" so I used O'Reilly as the excuse to keep that off my TV.

[JustRalph]

JustRalph:
In your post #49 from this thread, where did you find those pictures?

Good points. That was an AP photo that ran in several news outlets...........

[Tom]

So what is "mainstream" islam, anyways?

Everyone is so damned afraind to insult a muslem that the first thing they do is point out the we are dealing with "extremists."
Well, one of the so-called muslem leaders in London today - on CNN at noon ( the world news version) said thaere are only two kinds of muslems - practicing and non-practicing, and that those rioting and killing people over a cartoon are practicing muslems, who follow such idealogical leaders as ...BIN LADEN. And he said it was OK to kill people who disrespect islam.

This whole muslem thing is just the "fourth reich" - the next nazi movement, the new arian nation. The way of muslems is to intimidate. THEY say so on TV everyday, and I don't hear it being rebutted, so I am agreeing with "mainstream" islam.

Time to choose sides.

[twindouble]

So what is "mainstream" islam, anyways?

Everyone is so damned afraind to insult a muslem that the first thing they do is point out the we are dealing with "extremists."
Well, one of the so-called muslem leaders in London today - on CNN at noon ( the world news version) said thaere are only two kinds of muslems - practicing and non-practicing, and that those rioting and killing people over a cartoon are practicing muslems, who follow such idealogical leaders as ...BIN LADEN.

This whole muslem thing is just the "fourth reich" - the next nazi movement, the new arian nation. The way of muslems is to intimidate. THEY say so on TV everyday, and I don't hear it being rebutted, so I am agreeing with "mainstream" islam.

Time to choose sides.

There's to dam many foolish assumptions in this country. For example, how long did it take us to come up with the BOMB from scratch? Think about how long Iran has been secretly working on it, they are a hell of lot closer to having it than the fools think. If I were Israel, I'd hit the suckers now rather than take that chance.

T.D.

[highnote]

If I were Israel, I'd hit the suckers now rather than take that chance.

Nothing like a little pre-emptive nuclear strike to solve the problem. :D

[46zilzal]

yes and then SLOWLY kill their entire population with the fallout.....brilliant suggestion

[highnote]

yes and then SLOWLY kill their entire population with the fallout.....brilliant suggestion


They just better be sure the wind is blowing to the east.

[JustRalph]

yes and then SLOWLY kill their entire population with the fallout.....brilliant suggestion

depends on where they place it......winds etc...I believe that would be the goal........killing the majority of the population.........a little extreme maybe......but if you are going nuclear..........you have crossed a certain line

[46zilzal]

Come on now. radiation goes thousands and thousands of miles, gets in the water, soil, alters DNA etc. etc. And the half life of these materials is very long.

Radioactive fallout in the form of fine particulate matter is particularly dangerous because it can be ingested, bringing alpha and beta emitters into the body where they can do much more damage. One of the most serious components of the fallout from weapons testing in the deserts of Arizona and Utah was strontium-90 which has a very long half life.

[highnote]

It would be probably be very risky for any country to drop a nuclear bomb anywhere in any Islamic country.

If you think there are too many insurgents from around the world now, think about how many there would be if a nuclear bomb was detonated anywhere in the Muslim world.

First, imagine all the civilian deaths -- or "collateral damage" as they are referred to in military jargon.

Next, imagine there being so many pissed off Muslims that there would be a war that would last a hundred years.

They're pissed off now over a cartoon. How do you think they'd respond to a nuclear weapon blown up in their backyard? Nuclear holocaust?

It would be interesting though if humankind were wiped off the face of the earth. I wonder what it would be like 50 million years from from the day the last human dies? Would global warming reverse -- assuming it exists? What lifeform would come to dominate the earth -- the cockroach?

Well, I guess there's plenty of those in power around the world now. :D

[Tom]

Alright! Sounds like you're on board, 46.:ThmbUp:

Good stuff, there.....sounds like a plan!:jump:

[lsbets]

Even if there were more terroists, they'd be easier to spot with that greenish glow they would have. :)

[46zilzal]

you cannot contain radiation. EVERYONE in the region would be negatively effected.

[JustRalph]

you cannot contain radiation. EVERYONE in the region would be negatively effected.

are you missing the point...........bombing the region is the goal :D

just wait for the right winds...........:eek:

[46zilzal]

that would make the Jewish population REAL happy

[highnote]

NEWS FLASH:

In an effort to contain Bird Flu, George W has ordered the bombing of the Canary Islands!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tom]

That is why we wait for a west wind! :bang:

[hcap]

http://datacore.sciflicks.com/dr_strangelove/sounds/dr_strangelove_music_end.wav




When they made the film Pickens was unaware the film was to be a comedy and played the role straight, thereby adding to the humor.

Fer all ya in da slim pickens fan club.. bombing over a billion folks is not a comedy. Btw, we'll haveta target Indonesisa as well. Damn islamofacsists all over da place

[lsbets]

[url]Btw, we'll haveta target Indonesisa as well. Damn islamofacsists all over da place


That's okay, we have plenty of surpluss bombs anyway - its easier than trying to figure out where to store the things. :lol:

[46zilzal]

Imagine what ANY nuclear bomb would do to the WORLD'S economy

[GaryG]

That's okay, we have plenty of surpluss bombs anyway - its easier than trying to figure out where to store the things. :lol::ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[JustRalph]

Imagine what ANY nuclear bomb would do to the WORLD'S economy

yep, The cleanup effort would make Halliburton millions...........;)

[hcap]

Ls
That's okay, we have plenty of surpluss bombs anyway - its easier than trying to figure out where to store the things.
Some other riots.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_riots

Based on the philosophy that those who riot should be incinerated, looks like alot of megatonage is required.

Everyone from..

# 1738 - Wiltshire Weavers Riot, (Wiltshire, England)
# 1739 - French Food Riots of 1739, (Bordeaux/Bayeux/Caen/Angouleme/Lille, France)

To uppity soccer fans, deserve total anihalation.

Let's not forget student riots, race riots, or those consumers waiting for hours for sales before their local quickie mart opens, and then finally when it does, trample a couple of grandmas.

Hell, the bushies are starting a new generation of H-bombs. We can bomb the bejesus out of any whacked out evildoer we choose.

[JustRalph]

All of this shit over a friggin Cartoon.................

http://www1.stratfor.com/images/managed/3/4974.jpg

[PaceAdvantage]

yep, The cleanup effort would make Halliburton millions...........;)

HAH! Good one Ralph. Beat them at their own game....

[lsbets]

Hcap - I appreciate your sudden enthusiasm for aggresive action, but lets take it one step at a time. If things were out, then we can look at some other ideas. :lol:

[Lefty]

lsbets, just pointing out it wasn't the cartoonist, Toles, that you saw in O'Reilly. And I think the point is, he just won't face any tough questioners but will only appear in the liberal venues. Spks a lot about his guts.

[hcap]

A bit over the top Ralph?
Photojounalism at it's best?

All Islamic people to die because this of this guy?

Just like All southerners lynched blacks.
And All germans killed jews

I do not defend the violence. I think Islam has got to accept criticism of all sorts. And move into the 21st century. But defining a whole people or a religion by hate filled propaganda photo ain't gonna help. What's your point? Is Islam an evil religion? Are all followers evil?

You also do not condemn rioting by other groups done for a myriad of other reasons, some much less justifiable.

This entire thread is nonsense, and only feeds the cycle of hate. On both sides.You guys are saying smuggly "see we told you so all along-bad Muslims."

With that as your underlying rationale, I can see how easily many of you think H bombs are a solution and even a funny solution.

[highnote]

........ uppity soccer fans, deserve total anihalation.


Nothing worse than those damn uppity soccer fans. :D

[twindouble]

A bit over the top Ralph?
Photojounalism at it's best?

All Islamic people to die because this of this guy?

Just like All southerners lynched blacks.
And All germans killed jews

I do not defend the violence. I think Islam has got to accept criticism of all sorts. And move into the 21st century. But defining a whole people or a religion by hate filled propaganda photo ain't gonna help. What's your point? Is Islam an evil religion? Are all followers evil?

You also do not condemn rioting by other groups done for a myriad of other reasons, some much less justifiable.

This entire thread is nonsense, and only feeds the cycle of hate. On both sides.You guys are saying smuggly "see we told you so all along-bad Muslims."

With that as your underlying rationale, I can see how easily many of you think H bombs are a solution and even a funny solution.

Most just joke about the H. Bomb, it's a deterant and that's all. Think about it, if Iran used one anywhere, within a few min they would no long exist. That's not to say, their leaders wouldn't take a chance and nuke Israel, but it's good by if they do. Right now, it's just a ploy and it gives the west a dam good excuse to take out a terrorist State. Very simple to deduct.


T.D.

[Tom]

Most just joke about the H. Bomb, it's a deterant and that's all. Think about it, if Iran used one anywhere, within a few min they would no long exist. That's not to say, their leaders wouldn't take a chance and nuke Israel, but it's good by if they do. Right now, it's just a ploy and it gives the west a dam good excuse to take out a terrorist State. Very simple to deduct.


T.D.

The operative word here being most. ;)

[highnote]

The operative word here being most. ;)
:lol:

[hcap]

The operative word here being idiot, murderer, simpleton.

No smiley face.

[lsbets]

Back to a serious note - this should be an eye opener for everyone and should make everyone think. Remember how often Bush was mocked about saying they hate us for our freedoms? Well, apparantly they are willing to burn and murder over the excercise of free speech. So maybe there is some truth to Muslims hating freedom. On the other hand, while the quick reaction is to say "Maybe I was wrong and these folks are incapable of handling democracy and just aren't worth it" it is notable that the most prominant Islamic leader to come out and say cut it out, don't riot, all you're doing is hurting us (Muslims) is Sistani in Iraq. The same guy that the fear mongerers say is going to create a "theocracy" is the only prominant Muslim leader who has taken the right stand on this.

The Palestinians? Different story. Maybe the election of Hamas wasn't about the corruption of Fatah. Maybe it was about what everyone feared it was about but didn't want to admit - hate, violence, and terror. Look at their reaction to this. Look at the recent election. They celebrate a mother who has had several children of hers as suicide bombers! Their society celebrates death, in a way most of us can't understand. So, to me at least this has been an eye opener. Israel - hate to tell you guys, there is no chance for peace with the Palestinians, not as long as their culture is closer to a death cult than anything else.

And of course the Saudis played a big role in publicizing this in the Muslim world. We have got to figure out what to do about those guys, the problem is we need their oil. So Hcap, you're right, the H-bomb isn't the answer - we can't afford to have the land unusable for 1,000 years. We just need to find a weapon that will get rid of the people and leave us the oil fields. Any ideas? ;)

[lsbets]

Also, a little context to the big picture in which this is happeninig. Syria and Iran have both played prominant roles in encouraging the "protests". I would think that is partly to scare Europe into not backing a tough US stance against Iran's nuke program. Europe has already shown they can be scared out of, well, out of just about anything, and their fears of violence from their internal radical Muslim populations are justified (since they don't do anything to control those populations - look at France a few months ago).

[Tom]

lsbets,

Good post, and also, there goes the lib's theory the we are creating terroists.
They want us to understand islam and everything will be OK. Duh. Guess this one doesn't fit the model. Appeasement did not work on Hitler and it will work now. This reaction should be a wake up call.

A scary thought - how close is Europe to falling now? They are beign colonized and occupied just like they were in WWII, but this time, the enemy is there without using an army. But, as France illustrated recently, they can be close to anarchy at the drop of a hat ( or the the printing of a cartoon).

[cj]

As far as the cartoons go, if they offend Muslims, who cares?

I know that maybe all Muslims don't hate us, but the ones that allegedly don't sure don't do much to deter the ones that do. Until they do something, I don't really give a shit what offends them. You know what offends me? When they blow up our stuff and kill innocent people. So compared to that, you'll have to excuse me if I'm not riddled with remorse about a few cartoons.

[Bobby]

Is it the prophecy of Revelation, of Armageddon? :D

[twindouble]

Isbets;

The Saudis

Let's face it, those in power have nothing to offer their people because they hoard the wealth of the country. The religious fanatics can only offer hate and death like you say. They use the west as their tool to maintain control. To throw a blanket over the masses would be unfair, because they live under supression and fear. The sickest part of it all is, the royal families feed the very people that will someday be their undoing. They only survive because of their wealth and will pander to anyone, including us to stay afloat. Our support for skum like that over the years and our lack of action to solve the oil problem put us were we are at today. I think that's obvious to everyone in this country.

The above is indemic in Iran as well, with one exception we have the Bomb as our excuse like I said, to take them out plus we don't depend on them for oil to speak of.

We all know what the problem is when it comes to the Palestinians, what we fail to realize is they get support from the Arab world as a whole, from every conceivable faction that exists, including aid from us and of all people the Jews of Israel. With Hamas in power now, our aid and Israel's will end and the negitive result will be the radicals through out the world and middle east will step in, become more organized in their terror in hopes to see Osama's dream come true. As I see it, the fuse is lit, war is and has been the only solution. I'm sorry to say but this government has known that from the beginning.



Just one other note, Colin Powell told Bush " if you break it you own it" meaning he didn't have the balls or the foresight to confront the realities that existed in my opinion.



T.D.

[Bobby]

So like where are the cartoons? I've yet to see one. someone said wikipeida but I didn't see any.

These people are just crazy. Who wears their religion on their sleeves like they do? Blow your self up for ALLAH? Just nuts.

[GaryG]

So like where are the cartoons? I've yet to see one. someone said wikipeida but I didn't see any.

These people are just crazy. Who wears their religion on their sleeves like they do? Blow your self up for ALLAH? Just nuts.Don't forget the 72 virgins...hmmmm! :lol:

[Bobby]

"But to many fundamentalist and evangelical Christians, the battle of Armageddon is not the end but the beginning. In their reading of Revelation, the world will meet a warring Christ, but then will most assuredly go on, reigned over by a victorious Christ for 1,000 years.

After that, it gets even better: a new heaven and a new earth.

The site of this battle is the Plain of Megiddo in Israel, within easy striking distance of Iraq, where an American war appears increasingly likely. And so it isn't surprising to see biblical prophecy conferences popping up or to hear a caller ask a local Christian radio host, "Could this war in Iraq signal the beginning of Armageddon?"

http://greenvilleonline.com/news/2003/03/08/200303082564.htm

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[twindouble]

"But to many fundamentalist and evangelical Christians, the battle of Armageddon is not the end but the beginning. In their reading of Revelation, the world will meet a warring Christ, but then will most assuredly go on, reigned over by a victorious Christ for 1,000 years.

After that, it gets even better: a new heaven and a new earth.

The site of this battle is the Plain of Megiddo in Israel, within easy striking distance of Iraq, where an American war appears increasingly likely. And so it isn't surprising to see biblical prophecy conferences popping up or to hear a caller ask a local Christian radio host, "Could this war in Iraq signal the beginning of Armageddon?"

http://greenvilleonline.com/news/2003/03/08/200303082564.htm

:eek: :eek: :eek:


Of course it means armageddon, just line up and give all your worldly possessions to me. :lol: Suckers.

[Tom]

So like where are the cartoons? I've yet to see one. someone said wikipeida but I didn't see any.

These people are just crazy. Who wears their religion on their sleeves like they do? Blow your self up for ALLAH? Just nuts.

I posted a link the other day of jihadwatch - they are in there.
BTW, the editor of the Danish paper that originally printed these last year - to no problems - was on CNN this morning. He brough two other cartoons by the same artist to illustrate his point. One showed a Star of David on a bomb. CNN showed this one. The other, they did not - they took him off camera when he held it up. Hmmmm..must be offending JEWS is ok at Cnn. Of all the questionalbe cartoons out there, good ole CNN has only showed one trashing a US soldier and Jews. I guess thier true colors are showing. :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown:

[GaryG]

I am starting to get the feeling that Hanoi Jane is running CNN. Maybe that was part of the divorce settlement.

[tahoesid]

I have little regard for those that will protest things like cartoons and phony reports about Qurans being brutalized, but do little or nothing about killing innocent women and kids. Not much protest for beheading people where they come from.

Most of these protests are staged events to put fear into the none Muslim world and have little to do with the underlying issues. I would bet all the money in my pocket...(2 bucks) that 99.99% of those protesting never saw the cartoons, never cared about the cartoons and don't give a rats ass about the cartoons. They are egged on by their clerics as a show of force to the rest of the world.

All these Muslim countries try to focus their peoples minds on events far away from home , because it makes them easier to control when they aren't focused on their own problems. They blame the West/Israel/whoever for all their problems while their leaders live in luxury and drive around in Mercedes/Rolls etc. What better way to stay in power than to blame some other country for their sad lives.


Very few of the Muslim countries actually offer to help the Palestinians except with arms and rhetoric, but it makes a great focal point for the radicals in their country.

[Tom]

They hate our western cultures so bad,yet NEVER hesitate to take our DOLLARS for their oil. The blood of the Evil Satan is money, and they have no issues with taking it.


Hippocrites.

[betchatoo]

They hate our western cultures so bad,yet NEVER hesitate to take our DOLLARS for their oil. The blood of the Evil Satan is money, and they have no issues with taking it.


Hippocrites.


Have you ever hesitated to use their oil?

[Tom]

Have you ever hesitated to use their oil?

No, and I don't denounce thier way of life as unfit either.

[betchatoo]

Tom post 52
You miss the point. The reactions are the issue. We behaved like civilized people - they acted like animals - once again. And we are not talking extremists here. We are talking culture.

Tom post 59
We would NOT have sunk to the islamic low level of response.
I see today they are rioting and pillaging the ferry boat company tht had the disastor last week. Seems to be a similar thread here - muslem respones are violent, uncontrolled, and animalistic.
Many showed up at the protests carrying weapons, sledge hammers, etc. They were NOT there for a non-violent protest - they were there to riot.

Curious where thier rage is when muslems attack and kill Iraqi's trying to participate in thier own government and vote???? Where was their rage when SH GASSED thousands of muslems and tortured and murdered them on a daily basis? THey should be HAPPY that he is gone.

Could it just be that the islamic agenda is more than just religous furor?

Tom post 77
So what is "mainstream" islam, anyways?

Everyone is so damned afraind to insult a muslem that the first thing they do is point out the we are dealing with "extremists."
Well, one of the so-called muslem leaders in London today - on CNN at noon ( the world news version) said thaere are only two kinds of muslems - practicing and non-practicing, and that those rioting and killing people over a cartoon are practicing muslems, who follow such idealogical leaders as ...BIN LADEN. And he said it was OK to kill people who disrespect islam.

This whole muslem thing is just the "fourth reich" - the next nazi movement, the new arian nation. The way of muslems is to intimidate. THEY say so on TV everyday, and I don't hear it being rebutted, so I am agreeing with "mainstream" islam.

This isn't denouncing their way of life?

[JustRalph]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I am starting to get the feeling that Hanoi Jane is running CNN. Maybe that was part of the divorce settlement.

[highnote]

So like where are the cartoons? I've yet to see one. someone said wikipeida but I didn't see any.

These people are just crazy. Who wears their religion on their sleeves like they do? Blow your self up for ALLAH? Just nuts.

just go to wikipedia.com and type muhammad cartoon in the search box.

Or should I just post them here?

I understand they don't want idolatry. But I'm not going to worship these cartoons. I don't see myself converting to Islams anytime soon. I just became Catholic 6 years ago, why would I leave to become a Muslim?

That Muslims might kill and destroy over these cartoons is ludicrous.

[PaceAdvantage]

Posting here would be bad idea. I'd probably cave and delete them....

[highnote]

I wouldn't blame you. At this point, it would be fanning the flames. Most non-Muslims should know by now how Muslims feel about it.

[lsbets]

It really bothers me that in news stories most papers here won't show the cartoons. The papers here have intentionally deleted vital information in a story because they don't want to offend anyone. Its disheartening, and shows how little integrity there is in journalism today. The NY Times won't show the cartoons, but had a picture in there today of the controversial "work of art" of the Virgin Mary covered in feces. What a piece of crap paper they have become.

[highnote]

The NY Times won't show the cartoons, but had a picture in there today of the controversial "work of art" of the Virgin Mary covered in feces. What a piece of crap paper they have become.

I never read the ny times. I hate having to register. If there is an important news story I hear about through the grapevine. I used to read the International Herald Tribune online (iht.com) until the ny times bought them. They were a good source for relatively unbiased international news. Now, they seem to have the same stories as the Times. I never even go to their site anymore.

[JustRalph]

If somebody posts a cartoon of a Texas Cowboy in boots, driving a Ford Pickup and screaming the N Word......while spurring a black guy.....I am going to go ballistic!!!!! ;)

[Tom]

This isn't denouncing their way of life?

No, it denouncing the PEOPLE and thier religion. Where you have muslems, you have problems. Fact of life. Muslems get along with no one. Where in the world do you get that I think we should not use oil because it is bad? What I said was THEY denouce our way of life and yet they covet our money and use it to buy the very things they denounce us for.
They set out to destroy the Great Satan, not me. I was happy taking the oil and not having anything to do with muslems, THEY decided to attack us, now I believe we have to destroy them. They started it. I advocate we finish it. Whatever it takes.

[Tom]

Posting here would be bad idea. I'd probably cave and delete them....

You aren't pretending to be a newspaper. You have no obligation to invite trouble, and personally, I think you would be nuts to risk posting them here.
If you were to periodically claim freedom of the press protection, then I would say you had an obligation to do so - like the NYTime and CNN are failing to do.
This is just another example of what a total farce the new media is and why freedom of the press should be revoked. They do not deserve the protection becasue they are not really news organizations - just political tools.

[highnote]

You aren't pretending to be a newspaper. You have no obligation to invite trouble, and personally, I think you would be nuts to risk posting them here.
If you were to periodically claim freedom of the press protection, then I would say you had an obligation to do so - like the NYTime and CNN are failing to do.
This is just another example of what a total farce the new media is and why freedom of the press should be revoked. They do not deserve the protection becasue they are not really news organizations - just political tools.


With all the media consolidation going on, it's only going to get worse.

[Tom]

Uh huh. All the more reason to revoke FOP.

[RXB]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060208.wxcartooncleric08/BNStory/Front

[RXB]

I'll add this link as well.

http://www.macleans.ca/culture/books/article.jsp?content=20060127_183328_5228

[NoDayJob]

WWIII could be started without cartoons. Just publish this thread in one of the Muslim newspapers and see what happens. Whose flag will the Muslims burn now, Paraguay's? Apparently there's a shortage of U.S. flags, so it'll be several months before our flags will be burned during the riots. Then the war will start. We will have to be alert for the charge of the 1st camel brigade followed by women and children with dynamite and C-4 strapped around their waists. Then come the troops armed with napalm cocktails [all that oil and gasoline, ya know]. After a fierce 15 minute "fire" fight they retreat only to be turned into "crispy crittures" from all the burning oil wells. Red Adair, please write. If this offends anyone -- tooooo baddddd! :D

[Tom]

To their credit, a couple of local small town newspapers are publsihing all the cartoons as news stories.
In a local Tv interview, the editor stated that he was obliged to run them as they are integral prt of a majornews story. He furthere stated that they werre not printed to offend muslems, but if any are offended, that is thier right, but it als0o their responsibility to act as mature adults.
:ThmbUp:

Great guy....sense of professional duty and a sense of humor as well!

[lsbets]

Let's play connect the dots:

The cartoons were published months ago, and a contingent of Danish Imams brought them, slong with 3 fake cartoons, to the Middle East to try and generate outrage.

Shortly after the stampedes at the Haj, the Saudi religious folks started talking about the cartoons, and the faithful forgot all about the Saudi failure, once again, to provide adequate security so hundreds don't get trampled to death, but instead directed their anger towards Denmark (this is a very popular technicque with the Saudis).

The really violent demonstrations were organized and conducted by Iranian and Syrian surrogate groups like Hezzbolah, with the goal of scaring the crap out of the Europeans.

Iran is working on developing its nuclear program, and has been referred to the Security Council for action.

Syria has been implicated in the assasination of the Lebanese Prime Minister, and the investigation is about to be referred to the Security Council.

Denmark is set to assume the rotating Presidency of the Security Council.

When you play connect the dots, you might think that the ongoing rioting has been orchestrated by Iran and Syria to scare the heck out of Europe in the hopes that they will cave and not back the US on the security council when it comes to dealing with the above mentioned issues.

[Tom]

Read "The West's Last Chance"
This was predicted.
The muslems are now dictating to Europe what laws are acceptable and what laws are not.
The master plan is to use "Eurabia" as a launching pad for terroist war against the US.
They are already in a better positiont o conquer Europe than Hitler ever was. ( excpt in France, where they have always been overrun by somebody).

Two more dots - the "escape " of key al Qeda planenrs in Yeman, and that terror alert at the Capital the other night. they have about 6 false postives a month, yet this one trigered an evacuation and use of a "safe house" for the evacuees. What was different with this one? I think we have not been told the whole story - probably rightfully so. But we know they are caustious and patient - was this a test, a trial, was it a done to observe our reactions? Are the riots also a trial - to observe our reactions?

Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but when this crap happens all together BEFORE the next big one, it would be wise to investigate further.

[highnote]

Just received this email in my mailbox. Author unknown. Too bad. I'd think that if you're going to write this stuff, you'd at least put your name on it.

I suppose the point is to further fan the flames without accepting responsibility.



Author Unknown

OUTRAGED MUSLIMS! OH MY!

We wake up this morning to see video on CNN showing rampaging Muslims around the world. In Europe, the Middle East, the Pacific Rim . Muslim Mobs spreading mayhem.

It seems that these mighty mad Muslims are rioting and firing their ever-present AK-47s into the air because of cartoons. Yup ... this latest epidemic of Muslim outrage comes to us because some newspapers in Norway and Denmark published some cartoons depicting Mohammed. In fact ... here is one of my favorites!


[picture deleted]


Admit it, this turban/bomb thing could be the next big fashion hit on the Muslim street!

Muslim outrage huh. OK ... let's do a little historical review. Just some lowlights:

Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim outrage.

Muslim officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia. A Christian school. No Muslim outrage

Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt. No Muslim outrage.

A Muslim attacks a missionary children's school in India. Kills six. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia. Muslims shoot children in the back. No Muslim outrage.

Let's go way back. Muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses. Over 700 are injured. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali. No Muslim outrage.

Muslim newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons. No Muslim outrage

Muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world. No Muslim outrage.

Muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge. No Muslim outrage.

Newspapers in Denmark and Norway publish cartoons depicting Mohammed. Muslims are outraged.

Dead children. Dead tourists. Dead teachers. Dead doctors and nurses. Death, destruction and mayhem around the world at the hands of Muslims .. no Muslim outrage ... but publish a cartoon depicting Mohammed with a bomb in his turban and all hell breaks loose.

Come on, is this really about cartoons? They're rampaging and burning flags. They're looking for Europeans to kidnap. They're threatening innkeepers and generally raising holy Muslim hell not because of any outrage over a cartoon.

They're outraged because it is part of the Islamic jihadist culture to be outraged. You don't really need a reason. You just need an excuse. Wandering around, destroying property, murdering children, firing guns into the air and feigning outrage over the slightest perceived insult is to a jihadist what tailgating is to a Steeler's fan.

I know and understand that these bloodthirsty murderers do not represent the majority of the world's Muslims. When, though,will they become outraged? When will they take to the streets to express their outrage at the radicals who are making their religion the object of worldwide hatred and ridicule?

Islamic writer Salman Rushdie wrote of these silent Muslimsin a New York Times article three years ago.

"As their ancient, deeply civilized culture of love, art and philosophical reflection is hijacked by paranoiacs, racists, liars, male supremacists, tyrants, fanatics and violence junkies, why are they not screaming?"

Indeed. Why not?

[NoDayJob]

Just received this email in my mailbox. Author unknown. Too bad. I'd think that if you're going to write this stuff, you'd at least put your name on it.

I suppose the point is to further fan the flames without accepting responsibility.

"Author Unknown

OUTRAGED MUSLIMS! OH MY!"

:lol: Ah yes, the religion of "peace". :lol:

[lsbets]

PA, feel free to take this down if you want, but I find it hysterical. If anyone remembers the hamster dance, check this out:

http://www.mohammeddance.com/

[JustRalph]

Wait until the Mexicans find out about Speedy Gonzales.........the crap is going to hit the fan.................

[PaceAdvantage]

The original is still the best, IMHO....

http://www.nutsacdance.org/