Power-online V6

[Trysharder]

Have been reading the post on "black box" handicapping. Seems to be the consensus that a program like that doesn't exist. WRONG!!! POL will make a profit betting only the "Black Box" picks if you set it up properly and have a database. You can also show a profit other ways without any handicapping. I am doing it every day. It does take some time keeping several tracks up to date but it is well worth the effort. I only bet one track yesterday and used strictly mechanical selections. Won 7 out of 9 races for a profit of 138%. Taking the entire last week I had one bad day, I only broke even. The program is expensive but worth every penny in my estimation. I have Horse$ense, URTI, Master Consensus and numerous other programs. None of them show a profit for me. POL does. I will not give a copy of the program to anyone but you are welcome to contact me at cwagley@sbcglobal if you have a question or just want to argue.

[Maxspa]

Trysharder,
I reviewed Powerline 5.0 several months ago and It did make a profit. However, there were a few caveats to the review. One you need to find out the tracks where Pol will be successful, then handicap these tracks on a consistent basis. You'll find out rather quickly with a couple of weeks testing. Secondly there were a few long price horses that made the difference whether you made a profit or not. I was not comfortable for me knowing that some of the long priced payoffs could have been an aberration and over the long haul maybe they would not be attainable again.
Then we had the 500 race play by Steve Wolson that made a profit, certainly an unbelievable feat. However, skeptics who owned the program questioned how he arrived at some of the plays.
Nonetheless everything points to Power-On Line as a black box profit maker. It's good to know that there's a no excuse blackbox program out there and I suspect there are others as well. Can you discuss the results regarding the 5.0 and the new 6.0 edition? Thank you for sharing your findings.
Maxspa

[Trysharder]

I had V5 before upgrading to V6.There is no comparison. V6 works so much better, is so much faster and had been so much more profitable for me I find it hard to believe. I don't handicap. I use the computer to make the selections and it has not failed me. It does take time to keep it up to date especially when your data base gets large.

[PaceAdvantage]

I'll play devil's advocate here:

Although I appreciate you sharing your success, I must question why you would want to advertise this, since the more people who buy the program and start playing the "automatic" picks, the less money YOU are going to be making, until eventually, you'll be making no money at all.....

It's a sucky paradox, isn't it?

[Trysharder]

You are wrong. You might come up with the same selections I do but it is highly unlikely. It would require several things to do so. You would have to use the same track, download races for the same days, use the same settings and then bet them as I do. This is one thing I like about the method. Many people could bet it and make a profit and never have the same selections. If you decide to try it you will see what I mean when you get into the modeling and valuation decisions.

[thoroughbred]

You are wrong. You might come up with the same selections I do but it is highly unlikely. It would require several things to do so. You would have to use the same track, download races for the same days, use the same settings and then bet them as I do. This is one thing I like about the method. Many people could bet it and make a profit and never have the same selections. If you decide to try it you will see what I mean when you get into the modeling and valuation decisions.

Tryharder,
I'm a bit confused. You started this thead by saying there IS a black box. And when PA posed the question that if this were so, the odds would come down, since many would have the same horse, you respond by saying people will go to different tracks, different days. That is "begging the question" don't you think? PA's point, I believe, is that if it were truly a black box, those using it for the same race would come up with the same result. And you also mention "using the same settings." If you have to make your own settings, then it ISN'T a black box in the way most handicappers understand what a black box is.

[headhawg]

You are wrong. You might come up with the same selections I do but it is highly unlikely. It would require several things to do so. You would have to use the same track, download races for the same days, use the same settings and then bet them as I do. This is one thing I like about the method. Many people could bet it and make a profit and never have the same selections. If you decide to try it you will see what I mean when you get into the modeling and valuation decisions.
Then this program is not what most people think of as a black box. Once you put human decision into it it's called handicapping and the software is just a tool.

So, you are wrong.

[Trysharder]

This reminds me of the guy who complained he had never won anything in the lottery. The fact he never bought a ticket might have been the cause. When you set up POL you have to make some choices. The choices determine what runners you will pick. Any of them can , and probably will , win for you. If you never turn on the computer I doubt if the program can pick winners for you. I work constantly trying to make it better but if I had never did a thing but put it on my computer and enter the races ( is this considered not being a black box because you do have to enter a race) it would still work. This is the last post I am answering on this subject. I have no interest in whether you buy, use, or ignore POL. I posted this for fellow horse players because I think it will help them. Here is an email I received today from someone who listened:

In the 5th at AQU yesterday, a Maiden race, there were 2 Black Box Picks. One went off at 25-1, a FTS, and the other was a heavy fovorite. The FTS won and paid over $50. to win and the favorite ran 2nd. I had the exacta of $160. I didn't play the FTS alone (dummy).

[thoroughbred]

This reminds me of the guy who complained he had never won anything in the lottery. The fact he never bought a ticket might have been the cause. When you set up POL you have to make some choices. The choices determine what runners you will pick. Any of them can , and probably will , win for you. If you never turn on the computer I doubt if the program can pick winners for you. I work constantly trying to make it better but if I had never did a thing but put it on my computer and enter the races ( is this considered not being a black box because you do have to enter a race) it would still work. This is the last post I am answering on this subject. I have no interest in whether you buy, use, or ignore POL. I posted this for fellow horse players because I think it will help them. Here is an email I received today from someone who listened:

In the 5th at AQU yesterday, a Maiden race, there were 2 Black Box Picks. One went off at 25-1, a FTS, and the other was a heavy fovorite. The FTS won and paid over $50. to win and the favorite ran 2nd. I had the exacta of $160. I didn't play the FTS alone (dummy).

Tryharder,

Hey. No one was arguing whether or not the program is good or bad. We only took exception to your use of the words "black box" when, in fact, by almost everyone's understanding, the program did not meet the definition of "black box."
So if your program is a good one, that's fine. Just that it isn't a black box.

[Vegas711]

I'll play devil's advocate here:

Although I appreciate you sharing your success, I must question why you would want to advertise this, since the more people who buy the program and start playing the "automatic" picks, the less money YOU are going to be making, until eventually, you'll be making no money at all.....

It's a sucky paradox, isn't it?


Exactly.

Maybe a friend of his is the person who is selling the program, or he just doesn't understand how the parimutuel system works.If you have a prize angle or program the SMART thing to do is keep it to yourself.

[Trysharder]

I said I wouldn't post again on this subject but I can't resist this. I don't know anything about the author or programmer of POL except they are teriffic if you need help.. I am a 71 year old retiree who lives in a small town in Western Oklahoma. Have never been to a horse race in my life but have checked more gambling systems than most of you will ever see. Make yourself feel superior and brag about how you really put Trysharder down. While you do I will keep making money and helping those with enough sense to ask me.

[Maxspa]

Tryharder,
Pick a couple of tracks, use the basic program selections and post them on the selections board for a week or two if you choose. Then the question regarding the efficiency of the program will be answered at least in the short test.
I think the problem goes back to the setting up the program. When Steve Wolson had his terrific test some people who had the program didn't get the same selections. I'm sure that his experience with the program led him to select certain operations within the system to be so successful.
I believe that Power-On Line has the capabilities to be a winning program but without the unique settings I reserve my decision.
Maxspa

[garyoz]

I have been using the program at TAM this meet. I really see the program as more for the recreational player than a professional or serious money player. It works well and some of the models do far better than the track take with some even showing a positive ROI based upon a 150+ race sample. The question is whether they will still be positive with a couple thousand race sample.

Personally I'm using it to wager on TAM while I am playing other tracks more seriously--more for entertainment. TAM lends itself to the unorthodox approaches. It may come up with some automatic plays that work out over the course of a meet and you can make blackbox plays that will show a profit--combined with a rebate program that could make sense. It can also be used to identify longshots and to narrow down contenders.

What you see is what you get with the program. Really depends on your style. I think any profits would be more of the grind variety than unloading on some selection that it identifies.

[Trysharder]

To Maxspa. I have no reason to prove anything. The reactions to my post only proves one thing "No good deed goes un punished". Gamble anyway you prefer.

[Maxspa]

Trysharder,
I'm in agreement with you that POL has an upside and appreciate you would take the time to inform the PA members with your findings. The only question I have is: Are the settings one needs to be successful come with the program? Are these steps found in the manual Steve Wolson provides or did you come up with the process through trial and error ?
We probably will never determine whether a black box exists or not but I'm not convinced it doesn't exist either. IMHO I believe there are winning programs out there but they are probably not on the market.
Many of the people on this board like you and I have spent money on worthless programs. That tends to make us very skeptical of programs in general. Being a software junkie and an eternal optimist I'll go on record saying there are black box programs out there. Whether I get the opportunity to use one is another question altogether.
I still appreciate your sharing and happy that you have found software that gives you satisfaction and pleasure!
Maxspa

[Trysharder]

Want me to send you a copy of todays selections at SAX from the Black Box ? You can see they type of output you get. Track I usually bet was dark today so I used SAX with a data base of less than 200 races. I bet every selection today, even the ones where thewre were 3 picks. Just send me an email address at cwagley@sbcglobal.net.

[Jingle]

Maxpa & Headhawg

I respect your contributions on this Board and want to clear something up re "settings" and "decision making".

I have been using POL V6 since 12-7-05. I have every race card and results file in the database that has been run at Aqu since then. If you had done nothing else but query the database via the Black Box feature yesterday,
you would have come with Boardwalk (BB selection) in the 1st race. It won and paid $21.60. In the 5th, the BB selections were AP Glitter, a FTS, and Satin End. AP Glitter won, paid $50. plus and Satin End ran 2nd completing a $160. exacta. (I had Boardwalk and the exacta in the 5th. No I did not bet AP to win). No "special settings" and the only decision you had to make is whether or not to bet them. Thats it--maybe too simple for the complicated minds we have.

Yes, there were other BB winners but I did not like the odds.

I will post more on POL V6 when I have more experience with the Program. My early indications are its a winner!! One more thing--you can go to the bank with what Trysharder posts here. He has been a wonderful help to me. Neither of us is related to Steve Wolson as far as I know.

[Jingle]

Hey Thoroughred---I disagree. I think it is a Black Box or at least to me it is.

Now if you want to get into a philosophical debate on how do we really know if a chair is a chair, let me know.

While I've got your ear, have you made any picks with your software on this board. Steve Wolson has and showed a profit.

[Jingle]

Vegas711

Would you please post how the parimutual system works. I often wondered about it after 50 years of playing the races. I'd like to hear it from someone like you who has it altogeather. Trysharder might be interested too.

[Trysharder]

I will tell you a simple version of the pari mutual system. Everybody throws his money in a pot, expenses are taken out and the balance is divided among those who have fulfilled a certain requirement like picking the winner.

[garyoz]

The Blackbox usually has 2 or 3 horses selected. How do you decide which to play? Also, it is my experience that the "eliminator" black box (models that don't work) often will list some horses that are selected in the black box--thereby providing a contradiction.

Finally, a sample since 12/07/05 is not that great. Results tend to regress to the track takeout. For example, for Dirt Sprints at Tampa based upon 131 races the Consensus Long Shots showed a ROI of .79. Track take including breakage would yield .78. The top consensus horse shows an ROI of .98, which is actually very good. It is an interesting program, if that ROI of .98 holds up over a thousand races or so, you could bet through a rebate shop and show a profit. The question is will it hold up? A sample of 131 races isn't very big.

A black box approach doesn't fit my style, but like Max I'm a software junky and like to see how they work, which is why I bought the program. If you like systems betting (and somewhat mindless handicapping) this program has potential. The problem is since you are using backfitting, if the model begins to regress to the takeout ROI you will have problems. As I posted before, in the words of Harvey Pack, if you missed the wedding you don't want to go to the funeral.

[Maxspa]

Jingle,
Select a couple of tracks and post POL choices on the selection board. Keep the daily stats for a week or two and let the skeptics become believers.
Maxspa

[Trysharder]

Not my best but suitable for an example: 1226 races-397 wins-32.38%-$3241.80-ROI $1.32. One minor adjustment and 48.61% and ROI of $1.60. I don't even use this . It is just a check I make when I remodel. You are right about the eliminator. Have never used it but you have to set it just as you do the black box. If you don't set it the selections are the same as the black box.

[Jingle]

Maxpa

I'm not pushing or trying to sell POL in any way, honest--I could care less whether another copy of the Software is sold. I don't have anything to prove or any desire to post picks. As far as the skeptics go, one who believes needs no explanation, one who doesn't believe there is no explanation.

You might note that I have been a registered member here for a few years but only have about 35 posts. Vegas711 has been a member since last year and has over 300 posts. Is it because he has more knowledge of Thorobred
Horseracing than me? Maybe. I only post when I have something positive or worthwhile to say (not often) rather than sarcasm( like maybe he doesn't understand the parimutual system). I am not here to prove or disprove anything.

See ya on CJ's Board.

[Vegas711]

Vegas711

Would you please post how the parimutual system works. I often wondered about it after 50 years of playing the races. I'd like to hear it from someone like you who has it altogeather. Trysharder might be interested too.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


I love a battle of whits, maybe in another 50 years you will come up with a better comment.

[PaceAdvantage]

Exactly.

Maybe a friend of his is the person who is selling the program, or he just doesn't understand how the parimutuel system works.If you have a prize angle or program the SMART thing to do is keep it to yourself.

This isn't what I was trying to imply....do some people just love to fight, or what?

[Jingle]

PA--AGREE and unfortunately there are a few on this Board that could start a fight or argument in an empty parking lot.

Still glad we're all different though!!

[Blackgold]

What files do you download for the program and how much do they cost?

THANK YOU!

[Maxspa]

Jingle,
I respect your position regarding POL and in no way am I trying to make anyone uncomfortable. The only objective or purpose I have is to discuss the pros and cons of the available software and hope that someone (It doesn't have to be me) is able to handicap the races successfully.
Maxspa

[Jingle]

Blackgold

You can use just about anything from Bris or TSN. Bris Comma-delimited are $1 and Tsn are $.50. Exotic Result Files are $.25 per track. There are special plans you can purchase. Which file is better--who knows.

[Jingle]

Maxpa

Thanks. I will tell you that yesterday at Aqu, BB had 5 picks. Two of the horses are still running. 2 horses that won had low odds-- 4.60 and 5.20 I think. In the 9th race Rendition was the pick, won and paid $30.00. I did not play yesterday.

With the contributions you have made to this Board, I have no problem emailing you privately with the good and the not so good.

Let me know.

[Jingle]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


I love a battle of whits, maybe in another 50 years you will come up with a better comment.

Hey Vegas--I see you're bleeding a little. If you don't like to bleed, don't swim with the sharks.

Any better?

[Light]

Jingle

I too picked Quite Rendition @AQu. That was not an easy pick.You really had to be tipped off by something about him as all he had was 1 place in 8 starts,was coming off a 45 day layoff with a low % trainer and was well beaten by several in this field. I know how I came up with him. Can you explain how the program could have picked him?

[Jingle]

Light

Certainly--I'd be glad to explain it.

One of Steve Wolson's Methods in POL V6 is called the Maiden Project. The MP since 12-7-05 (when I got the Program) has had 36 picks of which 11 have won for a Win % of 33%. The ROI if I played the 36 picks is 1.72. And yes, it was a Black Box Pick due to the high Win % and positive ROI. Also, no tricks, no special settings, no inside info, etc. The only decision I had to make is whether or not to bet the horse. (I didn't as I did not play yesterday).

Let's look at it from a straight handicapping process. The horses were duds, agree? The only horse that showed anything was Sudden Burst but she is 0 for 13 and thats a throwout for me. I used TSN yesterday and if you use a pace and speed method with FPS numbers like MPH and pick pacelines from a fast track within 1 fur of todays race--guess who comes up on top--Quiet Rendition.

Let's look at the pacelines. Quiet has had 8 races--4 were at the wrong distance (1 was a turf race). Of the other 4, 1 was on a muddy track. That left 3 races to rate. I picked the 11-27 race and the 4-6 race(don't usually go back that far but no choice). If you just average the 2 Speed Figs without the velocity numbers that puts Quiet on top at 15-1.

Sound reasonable? Keep in mind there are lots of ways to skin a cat and everybody does it a little differently.

Best of luck to you.

P.S. I stopped trying to pick winners a long time ago--the crowd does a good job at that. I look for value and so far so good. A very knowledgeable person told me once if you bet with the crowd you'll end up like the crowd. Do you think the crowd makes money picking all those winners?

[Jingle]

Light

Forgot to mention that Steve Wolson's Maiden Project Method also picked the $50 FTS, AP Glitter, in the 4th at Aqu on Sat. This is the one I mentioned
in an earlier post. Also a Black Box pick. I could go on and on but there are too many nit-pickers and I don't have the time for it.

[Light]

Jingle

Your explanation sounds very similar to Pizzola's "form cycle windows". Is this program based on Pizzola's methods?

[John]

I thought I would jump in here.since I am a POLV6.0 user and been part of the Poweronline Family for Ten years. I started with Steve's first paper and pencil method " Powerline" I liked what I read and made money with the paper version. Believe me I am very grateful to poweronline for "The software"

I could go on and on talking about the many features That POLV6.0 has to offer. But, you guys that want to know that go to www.poweronlinesoftware.com and read the software manual.The manual will explain it a lot better than I can..

I fully appreciate Tryharder and Jingles overflow of joy and trying to express their enthusiasm over having a very profitable week end. Yes, it is true, Black Box feature did pick "Boardwalk" $21.60 and the start of the DD.I know it sounds like red boarding.. Try to understand that the Black box does not pick the winner in every race. There are a lot of Black box races that should be passed because the win % and the ROI % are not that good.For Boardwalk, the % were very good.
[IMG]

Again,with V6.0, you have a tool powerful enough to easily find profitable plays under all kinds of circumstances.
I can't get over how accurate the winner appears in one of the color lines, Yellow is top pick, Blue is 2nd, Green is 3rd, and Pink is 4th. The Longshot plays are indicated when the entire horse's name is in color, rather than just the Consensus rating.

Bottom line, Steve Wolson has said, Try it for 30 days, guarantee full refund. Funny thing Tryharder , Jingles and Garyoz all agree that they wanted to keep it after the first two weeks.

Any question write Steve, Wolsons@aol.com

If anyone would like one of Steve Wolson's paper version paper version. Just ask me.

[Jingle]

Light

Not sure what program you are referring to. Steve Wolson's isn't as far as I know and MPH isn't either.

[Light]

Jingle

I am reffering to Pizzola's book"Handicapping Magic". In it he has a method of selecting a pace line called "form Cycle Windows"(FCW). Basically this is a list of reasons why not to choose the last pace line of a horse. The reasons you gave regarding Quiet Rendition are included in Pizzolla's FCW reasoning including "wrong distance","wrong surface(wet or Turf)",(the reasons you gave). Pizzola has 12 reasons. If 2 of those reasons are met you are at liberty to go back to the next paceline and repeat the process. That's why I said your approach sounded allmost identical to Pizzola's.

I am impressed if the program really did pick Rendition as its top pick because most programs are basically calculators of trainer %,horse wins,earnings etc.I personally was "tipped" off by Rendition's workouts since he raced which caused me to take a closer look at him and I liked what I saw. But that was handicapping after the "tip".I have yet to see any software program employ any type of human reasoning.

[hracingplyr]

yes please send me the paper version at trade0257@aol

thanks for the offer

bob

[garyoz]

I went back and downloaded the Bris files for Saturday and Sunday. My database confirms Jingle's AP Glitter and Quiet Rendition picks in the blackbox. The blackbox backfits to see which of the 20+ models is showing a positive ROI. They were picked by one of the models not by the consensus. Quiet Rendition was tied as the fifth consensus pick with a program oddsline value of 10.25.

Both were top picks for the Maiden Project which has been very hot (apparently) at the Big A. However, the black box based upon the races in my database picked Fuego Grande as the top pick (based upon the Morning Line as a predictor). ML favorites have been 7 for 10 in maiden dirt sprints in the races in my database. I can see going to the bigger price as a selection, but still the black box will usually list 2 or 3 horses. If you're dutching that would really change the ROI. You still have to decide which of the black box horses that you will use.

Likewise AP Glitter was a second choice to the ML favorite Satin End in the Black box for the Saturday Race. AP Glitter was not selected as a contender by the program in the race and it had fair odds listed at 18.95 to 1 (based upon the races in my database).

So, you are using the Black Box approach as opposed to the selected contenders or a several other approaches you could take if you picked those two horse. The black box is one of the new and touted features.

I would bet that the Maiden Project selections begin to regress to a more normal win percentage in the next several weeks. No way will it win at better than 50%. We know that ML favorites will regress to around 33% winners.

I'm not knocking the software (I am a satisified owner), but I'm trying to provide context and suggest limitations. It is another handicapping tool, not a ticket to retirement.

BTW, the decison rules for The Maiden Project are primarily driven by workout timing criteria and recency.

[Light]

BTW, the decison rules for The Maiden Project are primarily driven by workout timing criteria and recency.

That would make sense. But this is getting confusing because because Jingle's explanation to pick Rendition was a Pizzolian style of handicapping and made no mention of workouts.

[Jingle]

Light

I think you are getting confused.

The firts example I gave had to do with Steve Wolson's Maiden Project contained in POL V6.

The 2nd example I gave is handicapping with MPH, a Ken Massa, Tom Brohammer velocity based program which requires picking pacelines. It has nothing to do with workouts. I explained how I, not Pizzola, or anyone else picks pacelines. You introduced Pizzola's way--fine but I know very little about his methods.

The point I was trying to make was that both programs had the horse on top. You recall you said Quiet was hard to get and I said I got it using Pol and MPH. I know nothing of Pizzola's form cycles, believe me. Do you recall I said there are more than one way to skin a cat. Maybe someone else landed on the horse another way, like a house number or color. Any clearer?

[Jingle]

I went back and downloaded the Bris files for Saturday and Sunday. My database confirms Jingle's AP Glitter and Quiet Rendition picks in the blackbox. The blackbox backfits to see which of the 20+ models is showing a positive ROI. They were picked by one of the models not by the consensus. Quiet Rendition was tied as the fifth consensus pick with a program oddsline value of 10.25.

Both were top picks for the Maiden Project which has been very hot (apparently) at the Big A. However, the black box based upon the races in my database picked Fuego Grande as the top pick (based upon the Morning Line as a predictor). ML favorites have been 7 for 10 in maiden dirt sprints in the races in my database. I can see going to the bigger price as a selection, but still the black box will usually list 2 or 3 horses. If you're dutching that would really change the ROI. You still have to decide which of the black box horses that you will use.

Likewise AP Glitter was a second choice to the ML favorite Satin End in the Black box for the Saturday Race. AP Glitter was not selected as a contender by the program in the race and it had fair odds listed at 18.95 to 1 (based upon the races in my database).

So, you are using the Black Box approach as opposed to the selected contenders or a several other approaches you could take if you picked those two horse. The black box is one of the new and touted features.

I would bet that the Maiden Project selections begin to regress to a more normal win percentage in the next several weeks. No way will it win at better than 50%. We know that ML favorites will regress to around 33% winners.

I'm not knocking the software (I am a satisified owner), but I'm trying to provide context and suggest limitations. It is another handicapping tool, not a ticket to retirement.

BTW, the decison rules for The Maiden Project are primarily driven by workout timing criteria and recency.

Gary--thanks for confirming my Black Box Picks. I didn't realize they were called into question although Light asked how they were arrived at.

After reading your post re POL, I get the feeling the sky is falling. Really, I'm thinking of asking Steve if he'll make an exception and refund my money after a two month trial. If you're really a satisfied owner, I'd hate to hear from somebody who doesn't like the program. Who ever suggested POL is a ticket to retirement--what is? Remember--its only a game.

[garyoz]

It is not a game. It is money. Since when is an analysis of the selection process equivalent to "the sky is falling?" No offense Jingle, but you sound like a recreational player. Some of us play more seriously and try to maximize any edge that we can find--particularly something that will stand up over time.

[garyoz]

Forgot to mention that black box picks are a function of the races in the databases. Hence, confirmation is significant. Jingle and I both only have races for the past two months or so in the db. There might be a completely different black box selection if you have a couple hundred (or thousand) races in the db. Also, the program doesn't delineate between inner and main track AQU.

The Maiden Project selection would be the same since it is built on decision rules, which is a good thing. Once again, many of the models seem to perform at around breakeven.

[Jingle]

Gary

No offense taken. You're right on--I do consider myself a "recreational player".
I only play when NY Tracks are running except for August of every year when most of my time is spent at Saratoga. I kinda like being a recreational player.
I'm relaxed, less intense, have fun with the PA crew at Saratoga-- CJ, SuFF, Storm Cadet, etc, and many others. My 401K will not depend on whether I win or lose and really, I'm not looking for a "ticket to retirement". I'm already retired, except for a few classes I teach in Labor Relations, again for fun.

I guess I'm someone who feels the "glass is half full". We're all different.

For example, you use Bris and I use TSN. Is one better than the other? I don't know and either do you. But I will tell you that Quiet Rendition was my 2nd Con Choice at $7.90-1. Why? Because our databases are different I think. Also, AP was my top choice over Better because of better ROI--you mentioned he was 2nd choice. Again, our databases.

I purchased POL based on a recommendation from you in another post and I'm very satisfied with it. Thanks.

Enjoy the day, lighten up. No, the sky is not falling but I do think the glass is half full.

[Jingle]

Forgot to mention that black box picks are a function of the races in the databases. Hence, confirmation is significant. Jingle and I both only have races for the past two months or so in the db. There might be a completely different black box selection if you have a couple hundred (or thousand) races in the db. Also, the program doesn't delineate between inner and main track AQU.

The Maiden Project selection would be the same since it is built on decision rules, which is a good thing. Once again, many of the models seem to perform at around breakeven.

Gary

Thanks for the clarification.

The database does dilineate between Main and Inner if you keep the
database by Meet rather than by Track. My database is for the Aqu Inner.
Maybe the differences we get in our CON selections, huh? Also, many of my models show a positive ROI and Win %. Probably the glass again--half empty or half full.

[fortuna mike]

can anyone tell me if lap tops are allowed

[TJC]

Mike,

I just spoke to the Asst. Mgr (Jack Schneider) of the race book at Sam's Town and he told me that laptops are allowed as long as you don't try to access the Internet.

He suggested you check in with him or a supervisor to let them know you will be using the laptop.

Hope this helps.

Tom

[Trysharder]

Their attitude must have changed. Sam's Town run me out for using a lap top. Only casino race book I know of that does object though. I simply changed books.

[Vegas711]

Hey Vegas--I see you're bleeding a little. If you don't like to bleed, don't swim with the sharks.

Any better?


I eat sharks for breakfast. This January I hit paydirt , my game took a dramatic turn around( hitting 40 % on win betting , 5/2 and up ) and it was not from using a black box, it came about from hard work that I did this last december to sumarize for me it comes down to :

1. Knowing which races are unplayable
2. which races offer little opportunity
3. vice a versa which races offer great opportunity
4. Understanding when my program works and when it fails
5. understanding how Pace matchups effect different types of horses
6. Understanding how form cycles work and what the horse will do today.

Becouse I am the only person using what I know I am sure that my roi will be protected. This Game is very sensitive to bandwagoning if too many people play the same they all lose.

[shanta]

I eat sharks for breakfast. This January I hit paydirt , my game took a dramatic turn around( hitting 40 % on win betting , 5/2 and up ) and it was not from using a black box, it came about from hard work that I did this last december to sumarize for me it comes down to :

1. Knowing which races are unplayable
2. which races offer little opportunity
3. vice a versa which races offer great opportunity
4. Understanding when my program works and when it fails
5. understanding how Pace matchups effect different types of horses
6. Understanding how form cycles work and what the horse will do today.

Becouse I am the only person using what I know I am sure that my roi will be protected. This Game is very sensitive to bandwagoning if too many people play the same they all lose.


Vegas,
It has taken me almost 7 years to realize just how IMPORTANT # 4 is on your list.

Richie

[Jingle]

Vegas711

Sounds like good handicapping Vegas. Really, what you listed makes alot of sense. Hope your success continues in the future. As you know it ain't easy.

Sorry about the sarcasm in the earlier post but the parimutual comment irked me. Plus Trysharder is a real nice guy. I'm over it.

I really hope you and all the the guys on this Forum, including me, make a bundle.

I like your line about sharks--I wouldn't go near one in an aquarium.

[tahoesid]

Actually there are a few books that don't allow notebooks. Sam's town as far as I know has been allowing notebooks. The Bellagio early on didnt allow notebooks...not sure if they allow any now. It is always changing. Most won't bother you at all. It's all based on the misconceptions of the race book managers mostly.

Basically it's should be a non issue for them since all the info that they are afraid will get out is easily available online etc., but things change slowly.

[Lefty]

Last time I was in Excalibur they wouldn't let me use my note book.
My local N. vegas place, Jerry's Nugget allows me to use it but won't provide me an elictrical outlet.
That's the fear of most places, that you'll access the internet or make a ph call.

taho, it would be a non issue for them except communication with cellphones or notebooks to the outside world is forbidden by the Gaming Board in the Race and Sports books

[tahoesid]

Really?

That was my point. The Commision is about 10 years behind reality and the managers just make a blanket decision so they don't have to worry about making any decisions at all. You can communicate with the outside world now without them even knowing about it, and all the information is available in real time so people don't need someone in the book relaying them the odds.


You can also make all your bets online so except for someone that is technologically challenged and still needs to phone their bookie there is no reason for barring communications that makes much sense. Just keeping the same rules because it easier than changing them.

[garyoz]

Why not stay in the comfort of your home and watch TVG, HRTV or video streaming? You can also use a rebate shop if you choose.

[Lefty]

gary, I tried that, got sick of it in about a mo. And found there as many distractions at home as the racebook, if not more.
I need the co. of my buds, I guess.

[Maxspa]

All,
Three years ago I stayed at Bally's. My friend David Rowe who is an excellent handicapper in Saratoga sent me his print outs of the races at three different tracks. When I went to pick them up they were confiscated by the hotel and I was told it was against the law to be ionvolved in this type of activity. It was okay to contact the touts who are advertised in the newspapers by phone and get their choices. But have your friend send his material is illegal. Go figure!
Maxspa

[Speed Figure]

No handicapper that likes to use software should be without a PC TABLET. It's the best thing you can have. There's nothing you can't do, no place you can't go.

[rokitman]

No handicapper that likes to use software should be without a PC TABLET. It's the best thing you can have. There's nothing you can't do, no place you can't go.
Whatcha using?

[Speed Figure]

You should see the people when I'm at the Paddock.
http://www.gateway.com/products/gconfig/prodhmseries.asp?seg=hm&gcseries=gtwycx200&clv=Img

[skate]

to who it seems so;


most forums (all) have the typical adverse questions. rightly so.

it does add to the frustration when we try to communicate, but i understand the reason behind the questions.

to me, "you just can not cover the gamut" , say everything to be said in any one post.

sorry.


ok, here we go.
i've used the V6 program that Trysharder mentions. it is a good program with many many many options. so you (for the most part) set up your own Black Box.

my point for this post is mainly to state that i can attest to the validity of the program V6. i wish i had more time with the program. they will return your money and i think that justifies V6.

i was looking for a program that would sub for my capping, but it actually conflicts.


skate