Newbie question

[Gary Geigercounter]

I see that at Aquedect today the 4th race was a MSW for 4 and up fillies and mares at 5 1/2 furlongs.

1. Isn't that a distance for younger horses?
2. If a horse hasn't won by that age, wouldn't they be a claimer?

This is the type of stuff I never see the answer to in handicapping books. I guess the authors assume that I know it already.

Great forum, BTW. I have spent hours looking over the old threads. Tom, in particular can make me laugh. And I love andicap's avatar. Hogan's Heroes is a guilty pleasue of mine.

[JackS]

Probably not the cream of the crop maidens especially the ones with multiple starts. First of the year you might consider these as very mature 3yo's.

[Suff]

I see that at Aquedect today the 4th race was a MSW for 4 and up fillies and mares at 5 1/2 furlongs.

.

This early in the year you will see the 4 year old class at this distance.

They are essentially 3 years old and 19 days. They all have the some Birthday of Jan 1, 2006. So they all turned 4 two weeks ago.

[Gary Geigercounter]

Probably not the cream of the crop maidens especially the ones with multiple starts. First of the year you might consider these as very mature 3yo's.

Yeah, I figured these may have been horses born later in the season.

Thanks

[Murph]

HOO writes state bred MSW conditions limited to 3, 4 or 5 YO horses.

I guess we give up on them after 5 YO :p

There are generally a dozen or so of these older maidens on the grounds
every year. They often have not raced more than 3 or 4 times before.
Many are 4 yrs old until their first race.

I expect the idea is to give new Indiana breeders and trainers more time
to develop their charges before racing them. In developing Indiana sires
it is helpful to see as many of the offspring make it to the track as possible.

Murph

[GeTydOn]

5 1/2 furlong races have become more common since Lakow left.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Sometimes, esp. early in the season, trainers might believe their horse is a little short coming off of a break, and sometimes those shorter races encourage the trainer to enter the horse. Maybe they'll feel the horse is too short at the time for 6 furlongs, but might be ok for 5 1/2. Maybe they know they aren't ready, but at least they get out for exercise and don't get pasted as bad at 5 1/2 as they would at 6. Hopefully they get full fields, the goal of the racing secretary.

Cheap tracks, like Fairmount, for about the first two weeks after they open around April, offers many (mostly?) 4 1/2 and 5 furlong races for older horses, since much of the stock hasn't been racing, and a race will usually be a better conditioner than a workout alone. The best horses on the grounds, even if they're ready, need a race to fill so they have opponents to race against, so they get the chance to earn a paycheck.

[kenwoodallpromos]

4+up may have needed to mature due to bad/crooked legs or bad habits. I assume no one wants to get their horse claimed after feeding them this long. I assume PP faders are bad risks and speed wins. Maybe take a look at those with recent long workouts if any. Just wild guessing!

[JackS]

This is my take on the class hierachy with maidens.
1. Maiden 2 or 3yo's racing exclusive to their age at the earliest part of the year.
2. Maiden 3&4yo's early in the year and declining by the month as the year goes by
3. Maiden 3up. Some people may juxtipose this with (2.) since this allows for more horses to qualify on the conditions. Still, are we to believe that there is the possibility that there is some super maiden 5-6yo hanging out in some stall waiting to pounce? Since this game is so money driven , I don't believe owners would actually allow NW's to not race if there wasn't something wrong.
4. Maiden 4yo
5. Maiden 4up
6. Maiden 5up (I beleive I've seen this condition but probably at smaller tracks)

[kenwoodallpromos]

Equibase entyries and chart claims it was a 6f race.

[Ron]

This is my take on the class hierachy with maidens.
1. Maiden 2 or 3yo's racing exclusive to their age at the earliest part of the year.
2. Maiden 3&4yo's early in the year and declining by the month as the year goes by
3. Maiden 3up. Some people may juxtipose this with (2.) since this allows for more horses to qualify on the conditions. Still, are we to believe that there is the possibility that there is some super maiden 5-6yo hanging out in some stall waiting to pounce? Since this game is so money driven , I don't believe owners would actually allow NW's to not race if there wasn't something wrong.
4. Maiden 4yo
5. Maiden 4up
6. Maiden 5up (I beleive I've seen this condition but probably at smaller tracks)

genius!

[JackS]

Genius? Maybe not but as much of Pace Advantage is used as reminders, we will continue to read. If you disagree, post your disagreement. If logical, I might change my opinion. I think it is possible that 4yo's may have an advantage over 3yo's at some small tracks. If this is what you are referring to, let us know.
Many people believe maiden races carded for 3-4yo's are superior to 3yo's only. Compitition against older horses would be prefferred to horses coming out of 3yo only races. I understand the argument but continue to believe as posted above.

[Gary Geigercounter]

Equibase entyries and chart claims it was a 6f race.

This was from Thursday and I noticed it while reading The Daily News at the DMV. Just checked drf.com. They have it as 5 1/2 furlongs, too.

[kenwoodallpromos]

The time of your post must have thrown me! Anyway, favorite won wide with a drive so it outlasted others with early speed- it must have been in good shape!

[Suff]

.[QUOTE]
I think it is possible that 4yo's may have an advantage over 3yo's at some small tracks. If this is what you are referring to, let us know.
Many people believe maiden races carded for 3-4yo's are superior to 3yo's only


3 year olds are teenagers. Many of them put on as much as 500 pounds in the next 1-2 years as they develop. Betting a 4 or even 5 year old in a race full of mediocre 3 year olds is a good angle.

The common condidtions I see in any Maiden Class is 3YO and up, and 3YO only. Early in the year I will see this 4YO ONLY condition but rarely past Spring.

A 4 year old that has learned the game with 2 or 3 races at 3, with so so results . is a force against a handfull of average 3 YO's. Under most circumstances.

[QUOTE]Compitition against older horses would be prefferred to horses coming out of 3yo only races. I understand the argument but continue to believe as posted above.

Most condition books I have read limit maidens up to 8 years old. It varys track to track. Most tracks have thier condition book on line. Generally the first few pages spell out the unique and standard practices on all thier Conditions. If you have never read a condition book it isn't bad thing to do for a better of understanding of how and why they card certain races.

Sometimes you'll pick up a an aspect of a Condition that only one horse in the race meets. (in addition to the class condition ). It's not uncommon for a race to be wrritten in a such a way as a thank you to a trainer who fillls a lot of races.

Lakow knows whats in the barns. he knows he has a bunch of 4YO' Maidens that trainers don't won't to risk losing to a claim, and that he'll get a few shippers for the purse. So he writes the race........and wha-la. It fills, in January, at Aquedect. Thats his job.

[Suff]

Lakow's long gone. Forget that.

[Tom]

Equibase entyries and chart claims it was a 6f race.

You get your moneys worth on those freebies at EB! :D

[jotb]

Genius? Maybe not but as much of Pace Advantage is used as reminders, we will continue to read. If you disagree, post your disagreement. If logical, I might change my opinion. I think it is possible that 4yo's may have an advantage over 3yo's at some small tracks. If this is what you are referring to, let us know.
Many people believe maiden races carded for 3-4yo's are superior to 3yo's only. Compitition against older horses would be prefferred to horses coming out of 3yo only races. I understand the argument but continue to believe as posted above.

Hello:

When they write races for maidens 3up, I would give the edge to 3yo's the majority of the time especially late in the year simply because of weight allowance and if a horse is still a 4yo maiden late in the year (turning 5) that would not be a good sign. I would think a horse of this type is known as a professional maiden.

If this race is run earlier in the year, the edge would be given to the horse that has the most experience especially in route races. You have to be careful sometimes when a young 3yo is trying to stretch out for the first time. I think all in all it's really tough to lay down ground rules and it's best probably to take each maiden race seperately.

Joe